Eli was bad today?

I'm talking about the fans, specifically on this board.

In comment 13734577 Britt in VA said:

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I'm talking about the fans, specifically on this board.

Britt,

With all due respect, do you not see that you bring some of that out in response to your blind loyalty to Eli and the repeated callout threads? People get frustrated/aggravated with your angle and it comes across as what you deem as spitting on Eli.

There's also the reality that no amount of loyalty makes 2007 or 2011 a current reality. A lot of people focus on the present and future more so than the past. You seem to choose a different perspective. More power to you - you have every right to enjoy the Giants however you'd like. What you don't have, however, is the right to tell anyone else how they should be a fan.

People aren't idiots for feeling that Eli is in decline; they just feel differently than you do. And it's probably not all that productive to start these threads immediately after games end which you must be able to predict will turn into a series of arguments. But you do have the right to be a fan however you choose.

got disgusted by the manner they benched him. However, Eli isn�t LT, he isn�t Jeter, he is completely mediocre. Yes he threw two passes that will always be in incredible to me, but the rest of his career was very average, and average is incredible. He played his heart out for the Giants and he made himself a shit ton of money doing so.

Currently Eli is below average. If you actually believe he belongs in the Brady, Peyton, Rodgers type of category then homerism and just plain stupidity runs through you.

Why not like the guy and understand it�s time to move along. How much money did this dude make? 250 million? Am I a lesser Giants fan for saying so long and thanks for all the fish?

It�s ok that Eli goes elsewhere if he wants to. His time is limited and he has never been a game changer but I will look back positively on his years here.

In comment 13734577 Britt in VA said:

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I'm talking about the fans, specifically on this board.

Admitting that the guy is reaching the end isn't spitting or a sign of disrespect. I like you Britt. But you're reaching John Jerry troll status.

That's a solid plan for a 2 win team with an old WB.

Oh...he also missed some easy throws.

It's a beat up, bad team. With plenty of bad play at QB.

I like and think Britt has been a decent poster over the years. But these threads are tantamount to trolling. It's intended to get a certain reaction then get upset when given the reaction.

There's no productive point.

is that he kind of "ducks" or pulls up and preps for impact after every throw. Doesn't matter if pressure is there or not, he pulls up like he's going to get hit. I can't blame the guy, the OL is terrible just kind of sad to see that he's now innately doing it. Definitely affects some throws. I think Cosell spoke about this and as I was watching the game, he seemed to do it every throw.

In comment 13734952 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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is that he kind of "ducks" or pulls up and preps for impact after every throw. Doesn't matter if pressure is there or not, he pulls up like he's going to get hit. I can't blame the guy, the OL is terrible just kind of sad to see that he's now innately doing it. Definitely affects some throws. I think Cosell spoke about this and as I was watching the game, he seemed to do it every throw.

That's exactly right, and what both Cossell and Gilbride said last week applied perfectly to what I watched yesterday.

You see a guy that's making all the right reads, and making the right throws. Not a loss of arm strength. Hasn't lost anything on the mental side.

I think that view is a load of bullshit. He's definitely missing reads and making terrible throws.

It's a legitimate question carried over from the game thread.

I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play.

At halftime, he was 13/15 and a TD for a 119 QBR, higher than he's had in any game when Ben McAdoo was coach.

He doesn't have anything around him. Nothing.

You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.

Would we actually be any worse than 2-11? I don�t think so. I�m honestly
Not sure Geno is top 50 and I think we�d be about the same with him too, especially since neither of our wins were pass reliant anyway

Honestly at this point in Eli�s career he is no more impactful than any ole warm body

First I don't mind this thread Britt started . he was being provocative to initiate a discussion-- seems like he was successful ! it is a Giant's discussion board for christ sake!! Everyone is entitled to their opinions no need to attack people for making BBI a bit lively

but... I have to respectfully disagree

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I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play.

Eli last 11 Giants possessions 9 punts and 2 INT... in second half the offense did what it always does this year .. it is unable to extend drives and get points .

Eventually the defense collapses in spectacular fashion and we get blown out.

In comment 13734983 giantfan2000 said:

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First I don't mind this thread Britt started . he was being provocative to initiate a discussion-- seems like he was successful ! it is a Giant's discussion board for christ sake!! Everyone is entitled to their opinions no need to attack people for making BBI a bit lively but... I have to respectfully disagree Quote: I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play. Eli last 11 Giants possessions 9 punts and 2 INT... in second half the offense did what it always does this year .. it is unable to extend drives and get points . Eventually the defense collapses in spectacular fashion and we get blown out.

And at least three or four drives were killed by awful dropped passes on third down that were on the money, would you agree with that?

were immediately before the Cowboys blew us open, when the game was still 10-10.

That�s just astounding. We even managed 17 with Geno and that�s with him leaving points ob the field with a couple key fumbles. Eli defenders can talk about his support all they want he has not done jack
Squat to elevate anything. Literally 60 current QBs in the nfl can probably match what he�s done for us this season

In comment 13734965 Britt in VA said:

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I thought he was on point yesterday, until the game got out of hand and he started forcing it by just chucking it up to try and make a play. At halftime, he was 13/15 and a TD for a 119 QBR, higher than he's had in any game when Ben McAdoo was coach. He doesn't have anything around him. Nothing. You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.

That team will be the Jacksonville Jaguars. No chance he is with the Giants, unless he wants to take a real beating for the rest of his career.

Oh and that bonus you think they will give him to make up for the benching... not happening at all. He is getting cut or traded before the league New Year. Especially if Gettleman is the guy taking over.

Guess we'll see.

In comment 13735011 Britt in VA said:

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Guess we'll see.

Speculation stated as fact goes both ways though, no?

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You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.

That is a lot more open to interpretation than a direct statement that Eli's career is done with the Giants, and that they will either cut or trade him.

given the circumstances of the team. But, even mentioning Eli wrt yesterday is silly, IMO. He was a non-entity with respect to the loss. That's all defense.

(thank you McAdoo). At this point in Eli's career, just like Big Ben and Rivers, if surrounded by a fairly good and stable team he can play at a good level (better than a lot). If a team needs a guy to read the defenses, get them in position to be successful, and make quality throws given normal time, and has a complete offense with some semblance of a running game, Eli would be a good fit (again like Pitts and SD have). Thats not what we have. In our offense very all QB's will likely look the same. What we really need is a guy who can run around for his life either getting away from the rush, or waiting for his practice squad WR's to finally get open. This is more important to us than things like reading and fooling defenses. The offense is in shambles. Could Geno do as well as Eli, probably because most QB's would all look the same (not good).

We need to get our WR's healthy again (ie getting back OBJ which is critical), find a RB, and rebuild the OL. If this can be done over the summer then Eli can stay and be a good bridge to either Webb or a draft choice. If its going to be a longer rebuild, then we are better off just throwing a kid into the fire, or bringing in a career backup (like Geno) to take the blows until we are ready with Webb/Draft choice.

You really don�t think any qb in the nfl is capable of more than Eli has given us this year? Am I understanding you right?

I�d say I couldn�t disagree more. I�d say most nfl backups could have the Giants at 2-11 as well and similarly help lead a 12 ppg offense without Beckham. It�s one thing to concede the talent around him is lacking, but it�s also undeniable that he hasn�t done a thing to elevate the team or maximize its ceiling, even though it�s not a high ceiling

In comment 13735041 LatHarv83 said:

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You really don�t think any qb in the nfl is capable of more than Eli has given us this year? Am I understanding you right? I�d say I couldn�t disagree more. I�d say most nfl backups could have the Giants at 2-11 as well and similarly help lead a 12 ppg offense without Beckham. It�s one thing to concede the talent around him is lacking, but it�s also undeniable that he hasn�t done a thing to elevate the team or maximize its ceiling, even though it�s not a high ceiling

I thought that we were talking about yesterday. Although I do think it also applies to most of the games this year.

And our offense was as good or better as it�s been with Ei at just about any point since we lost Beckham

I love Eli. I think he should be a HoFer. I have spent a ton of time thinking about this and watching. I have been using the Eye test every week to compare to the opposing QB. I compared him to Geno last week. He fails the comparison every week. He was played worse games than Geno did and geno has not started for a while or got a bunch of practice. it stands to reason Geno might have gottten better with another start. I AM NOT CALLING FOR GENO. Eli's strength has always been his Cabeza. This system is about timing and touch. Those short throws need to be beautiful and in stride for YAC. Eli could be our QB for the next few years and I think we could make a run, IF, We reinstall our old system need our old system and find a dominant OL. Maybe he goes to ownership and says I'm not playing like a 20 million dollar QB, take half and get some player(not happening) Coughlin/Gilbride tailored that thing to him. The rest of the talent on the roster doesn't match that kind of system at all anymore. It sucks, it hurts. I am a loyal guy but... it's over.

after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.

Perfect example of why its over for him...

In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:

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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play. Perfect example of why its over for him...

I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.

this is a complex game with a lot of complex parts...

I haven't rewatched the game yet so I can't say what contributed to the failures. My impression was that early on, the offense was fairly successful, and that Eli looked pretty good. When I say early on, I mean really early on, as in their first two or three possessions. What about the next 8 or 9, you know, when the game really mattered?

I see that the defense is being blamed again for this loss, which is fair given they allowed 29 points and should never, ever, ever, think this offense can get them 30.

But anyway, back to the original question, imo and without having watched it a second time yet, Eli played like a bottom third QB today. Was his game worthy of more competition-free guaranteed starts and $22MM/yr give or take?

I don't think so.

What happened to the Eli who comes up big in the clutch? I haven't seen him in a long time and I think it only fair to wonder if he still exists.

cannot audible or change the play to take advantage of an opportunity? he doesn't have that authority?

In comment 13735024 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13735011 Britt in VA said: Quote: Guess we'll see. Speculation stated as fact goes both ways though, no? Quote: You watch, they're going to put a team around him next year, and we'll revisit these discussions.

And more of the same:

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Eli Manning will be the quarterback of the Giants next year.... Britt in VA : 10/14/2017 2:46 pm : link Period. He may have a 1st overall pick sitting behind him, but he WILL be the starting quarterback barring catastrophic injury, week 1, 2018. That's a fact, jack.

Link

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I'm not going to sit here and argue with people that have made Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:50 pm : link up their mind. All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good. If you want to pin that all on one guy, go ahead. I don't agree, but I'm also done wasting my time arguing about it. Here's the deal. Eli will be the starting QB for the Giants next year. He's not getting bench, Webb is likely not the future, and Eli, barring catastrophic injury, WILL BE THE STARTING QB OF THE NEW YORK GIANTS WEEK ONE OF 2018. It's a lock.

Link

But his stats look quite a bit better had the 4 drops not happened. I could be wrong but at least 3 of the second half drops would have been first downs that ended up as a punt.

I think he's been pretty meh this year, no QB would look good with this talent in our offense, but I thought he did his job well enough yesterday outside of a couple throws.

He knows how to read a D as good or better than most QB's. I think he'd be a great mentor to whomever we select in round 1. It's definitely time though.

Like I said, guess we'll see.

In comment 13735027 Britt in VA said:

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That is a lot more open to interpretation than a direct statement that Eli's career is done with the Giants, and that they will either cut or trade him.

I went ahead and linked some past examples for you. See above.

In comment 13735080 Britt in VA said:

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Like I said, guess we'll see.

I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you.

And that's a fact, jack.

In comment 13735089 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13735080 Britt in VA said: Quote: Like I said, guess we'll see. I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you. And that's a fact, jack.

I guess I'll take "good guy" over "Eric's best friend", "mentally unhinged/unstable", and "top 3 worst poster on the board"....
'
Thanks.

it's that he wasn't good enough. Fair or not, with the lack of talent on the field, the QB is going to have to step up and make plays, and Eli didn't do that often enough. The drops hurt badly, but so did missing a wide open Ellison downfield early, or Vereen down the sideline late. We need a QB to make those plays, and I'm not sure Eli is that guy any more.

In comment 13735096 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 13735089 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 13735080 Britt in VA said: Quote: Like I said, guess we'll see. I have to admit, you definitely are a good guy, Britt. I wish it wasn't so much fun to debate with you. And that's a fact, jack. I guess I'll take "good guy" over "Eric's best friend", "mentally unhinged/unstable", and "top 3 worst poster on the board".... ' Thanks.

It could always be worse. I had some idiot accuse me of being a Rocky/Cruzin dupe the other day.

The gap between Eli and someone like Geno Smith in 2017 is significantly smaller than the gap between the edge of the top 10-12 current qb class and Eli.

but I read that Kyrie believes the earth is flat.

to Eli on this board, whether that's what people [/i]want[/i] to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing.

I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.

You believe what you want and cherry pick opinions who agree with you while we let the results speak for themselves. I just watched Geno play a game with this team and it looked just about no different than any game I�ve seen Eli play without Beckham this year

Love Eli, but he�s not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. It�s over

In comment 13735138 LatHarv83 said:

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You believe what you want and cherry pick opinions who agree with you while we let the results speak for themselves. I just watched Geno play a game with this team and it looked just about no different than any game I�ve seen Eli play without Beckham this year Love Eli, but he�s not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. It�s over

What opinions did I cherry pick? Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell?

What other opinions are out there, non fan, right now about Eli being in decline or not? Those interviews happened last week. How is that cherry picking?

In comment 13735122 Britt in VA said:

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to Eli on this board, whether that's what people [/i]want[/i] to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing. I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.

I'm with Cossell too. Didn't he say that Eli has become a guy who needs a near-perfect offense at this point, that he's incapable of lifting the team around him?

I believe, like Gilbride, Cossell and you, that Eli can still make all the throws. His occasional misses I can live with - all QB's have them. He does seem to be what a lot of young and talented QB's are - able to win games if he has a great system, talent at the skill positions, a running game, and enough time to make throws.

Is that what we're striving for on offense? Since we don't have that, we can't expect much more from Eli right now, correct?

What did we gain by playing Eli yesterday over giving playing time to Webb? I know some would argue that putting in a raw rookie in these conditions could stunt his long-term potential, but I also know you're not one of those posters as you've made it clear that Webb isn't going to be the long-term solution for the Giants anyway.

So what exactly did we gain with Eli yesterday?

In comment 13735122 Britt in VA said:

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to Eli on this board, whether that's what people want to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing. I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see.

What Greg Cosell sees isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for Eli though - it's entirely possible that he might struggle to correct his recent habit of pulling away from this throws. He has done it a number of times this season even when the pass pro has held up. And that will be the huge question facing the Giants: can Eli correct those bad habits at age 37 and is it worth it to gamble on his ability to do so?

One of the things that I've noted is that it actually may work in Eli's favor that the roster construction most likely to make him successful for one more season is also the same way a team probably should build around a rookie QB (strong OL, effective running game). And if Eli is willing to embrace being a mentor (no reason to believe he wouldn't) and understand that there is at least a possibility that the rookie or Webb could take his job as early as next season (much more of an open question, IMO), I think he could be back.

But the bigger question is, will he want to come back? If he sees an opportunity to join a team like Jacksonville that appears to be closer to a Super Bowl run, would he prefer that?

And I guess my question to you - purely out of curiosity and for the purposes of discussion - if the Giants did indicate a willingness to build a team around Eli one last time and he chose to request his release or trade anyway, how would that affect your feelings toward him? I wouldn't suggest that anyone should be any less grateful for his career, but would you feel at all betrayed that the loyalty that you've asked the Giants and their fans to feel for Eli might not be reciprocated?

Obviously that's a very specific hypothetical scenario.

In comment 13735166 Dan in the Springs said:

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In comment 13735122 Britt in VA said: Quote: to Eli on this board, whether that's what people [/i]want[/i] to see (both ways) or whether they're understanding exactly what they're seeing. I lean more towards what Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell see. I'm with Cossell too. Didn't he say that Eli has become a guy who needs a near-perfect offense at this point, that he's incapable of lifting the team around him? I believe, like Gilbride, Cossell and you, that Eli can still make all the throws. His occasional misses I can live with - all QB's have them. He does seem to be what a lot of young and talented QB's are - able to win games if he has a great system, talent at the skill positions, a running game, and enough time to make throws. Is that what we're striving for on offense? Since we don't have that, we can't expect much more from Eli right now, correct? What did we gain by playing Eli yesterday over giving playing time to Webb? I know some would argue that putting in a raw rookie in these conditions could stunt his long-term potential, but I also know you're not one of those posters as you've made it clear that Webb isn't going to be the long-term solution for the Giants anyway. So what exactly did we gain with Eli yesterday?

My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?

If you don't have the pieces, you don't have the pieces.

There aren't many Aaron Rodgers out there, which is basically what we're talking about here.

What do all the young QB success stories have in common? Successful teams around them. Besides Aaron Rodgers, who regularly makes chicken salad out of chicken sh-t in the NFL?

I expect Kevin gilbride to be just about as critical of Eli as Olivia Manning. I�m not too familiar with Greg Cosell and I�m not scouring the Internet looking for everyone�s opinion on Eli, I have to work over 50 hours a week lol. Im sure there�s an opinion from someone somewhere that Eli is cooked, beyond of course his recently fired ex coach. But who cares? I don�t really see the news to appeal to authority like that. We can all
Have our own opinions. I don�t get how you can come off so dismissive that Eli could in fact just be washed. It happens to everyone

In comment 13735178 LatHarv83 said:

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I expect Kevin gilbride to be just about as critical of Eli as Olivia Manning. I�m not too familiar with Greg Cosell and I�m not scouring the Internet looking for everyone�s opinion on Eli, I have to work over 50 hours a week lol. Im sure there�s an opinion from someone somewhere that Eli is cooked, beyond of course his recently fired ex coach. But who cares? I don�t really see the news to appeal to authority like that. We can all Have our own opinions. I don�t get how you can come off so dismissive that Eli could in fact just be washed. It happens to everyone

Cossell is one of the most respected tape guys in the NFL.

You didn't have to look hard for the interview, it was posted on BBI, which is where I saw it.

In comment 13735066 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play. Perfect example of why its over for him... I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.

OK ... I read a of of this thread, surprised that so many are debating whether or not Britt's a good guy, a troll, other things.

Of the handful of "good guys" on BBI, Britt's certainly in the mix. His love for Eli gets him hammered but I have no doubt it's legit. It's possible, maybe likely that his perspective is skewed by his emotional lean toward Manning (I suffer a similar disability), but it's nowhere near troll levels.

He's talked about a fan level of disrespect for 10 (agreed). He's talked about having more confidence in Eli than most (I see the warts, but can also see the team having success with the right moves made next off-season). He's talked about drafting a QB (I would like to know what we have in Webb first, but OK ... seems we may have 2 young QBs in-house soon enough.)

But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.