For that crowd, I ask.... What plays did he leave on the field? What plays did he not make that changed the game?
Yeah, he threw 2 INT's, after we were down two, then three, scores... But when the game was still undecided?
What plays did he not make/leave on the field?
My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?
Ummm... learn and grow from the experience? What would be wrong with that?
Serious question - and no offense intended, but do you generally look backward in life or do you plan forward? I ask that because you seem to be influenced heavily on what was years ago and less concerned about what will be next year and beyond.
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My counter to that is, what is any rookie QB, or anybody, going to come in and do with this situation?
Ummm... learn and grow from the experience? What would be wrong with that?
Serious question - and no offense intended, but do you generally look backward in life or do you plan forward? I ask that because you seem to be influenced heavily on what was years ago and less concerned about what will be next year and beyond.
I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?
You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?
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I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?
You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?
Nothing. But what is there to be gained in a 2-11 season anyway? If you're referring to Webb, I said in the other discussion on other threads, Webb is not ready. All indications point to that, or he would be out there. Dressed and active, at the very least. He's not.
People can try and reverse engineer a reason to sit webb... the most pathetic being the dramatic.. HOW CAN WE LEARN ANYTHING WITH THIS OL AND WR.... ummmm he can learn a lot... he might suck... but he will still learn. and the bar is so low with an offense that scores 13 a game that its not like he will have some terrible stigma if he goes out and struggles.
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I find it odd that you are trying to psycho analyze me based on posts on a football message board.
I've stated over and over and over again to draft a QB round one, this upcoming draft.
It's called having a discussion. I know you would draft someone next year, but am wondering why you are so opposed to the idea of playing someone other than Eli now? Not just anyone, but someone the Giants believed a few months back could eventually replace Eli?
You don't seem to answer the one question that most interests me. What did we gain from playing Eli yesterday?
I'll try, Dan.
1. Another week for Webb to prep (assuming he will get game snaps).
2. Eli is a respected vet. There's zero to be gained from starting Geno Smith over him.
3. And, of course, the loss is of some value regarding the draft.
There are no great answers. But those are three.
Nothing. But what is there to be gained in a 2-11 season anyway? If you're referring to Webb, I said in the other discussion on other threads, Webb is not ready. All indications point to that, or he would be out there. Dressed and active, at the very least. He's not.
This is what I and others have been arguing with you about for some time. Many of us have been unhappy that we decided to go back to Eli with nothing to gain right now, when at the least, a young QB who admittedly might not be ready could at the very least have a growth/learning experience.
The fact that he's not ready to play games at this point of the season is maddening to many of us. You have disparaged that feeling we've expressed and is the reason why I wanted you to admit that we gained nothing from Eli playing.
I'm interested in you Britt because I see you as a serious poster whose opinions I enjoy reading, not because I'm obsessed with you. I found it interesting that following a game where we gained nothing by playing Eli you came here nearly as soon as it ended to ask about how he played.
If it bothers you that I've spent time thinking about you then I apologize and I can easily remedy that. Hope you enjoy your holiday season.
But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I don't understand how a coaching decision shows that it's over for him, but okay.
OK ... I read a of of this thread, surprised that so many are debating whether or not Britt's a good guy, a troll, other things.
Of the handful of "good guys" on BBI, Britt's certainly in the mix. His love for Eli gets him hammered but I have no doubt it's legit. It's possible, maybe likely that his perspective is skewed by his emotional lean toward Manning (I suffer a similar disability), but it's nowhere near troll levels.
He's talked about a fan level of disrespect for 10 (agreed). He's talked about having more confidence in Eli than most (I see the warts, but can also see the team having success with the right moves made next off-season). He's talked about drafting a QB (I would like to know what we have in Webb first, but OK ... seems we may have 2 young QBs in-house soon enough.)
But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
For me, it is the body of work this year. What did he do before the injuries? The OL..There a lot of hurting OLs out there. Eli is not making anyone better. They had that nice play in there, it worked. Ellison was WIDE OPEN. He missed it badly. Eli is the best QB the Giants have ever had. He is done...worse, he will be the last to see it. He says, he is sad that McAdoo got fired. He got him fired by playing like shit and benching himself. McAdoo should have had some balls and said FU, you are starting tomorrow. You are not making me the coach that broke the streak. I am going to send you out there and you are going to have to refuse to go in on national TV. Eli has a little bit of spoiled brat in him. If he stays, he needs to take a pay cut so we can put better players around him. Better QBs have taken pay cuts to get players.
Hire a new coach and GM. Keep Eli as a placeholder to the QB you draft in round one (or Davis Webb, whomever wins the training camp battle for #2). You have a new offense. Your GM makes some thrifty moves, on a team that actually has some talent at the skill positions on both sides of the ball, but thrifty moves to shore up the trenches. You start Eli when you take the wrapper off of all this week one, and let the chips fall where they may.
This is the most conservative and logical approach for the following reasons:
-A veteran QB to learn a new offense and help coach up everybody else on offense, including young understudies.
-The value of keeping Eli under contract is more than cutting him, eating the dead cap number, and then signing a lesser veteran anyways. 12.5 million plus 6-14 million for a guy like Mike Glennon or Jay Cutler is actually the same cap space or more, than keeping Manning.
-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.
-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?
You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.
But the fact of the matter is that he's not being dressed, for whatever reason.
You take that as me crapping on you for wanting to see Webb, when all I'm doing (I feel like) is stating the obvious.
the giants (in the giants view) were supposed to compete for the division.
Geno was the 2 because a vet is needed for a contender if the QB goes down.
Webb not getting reps is because until they were fully eliminated... the head coach who had been under fire was not going to have a rookie come in for Eli.
if the giants new they would be in rebuild all year.... they would have gotten webb reps much earlier...
so here we are... with a few weeks left..,. and there is no downside to getting the kid reps and into the game with a modified playbook... which is basically the playbook anyway since it should be tossed into a dumpster fire.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
Exactly, the whole situation is toxic.
Yeah, I don't know either, but we have to at least entertain the option that the coaches don't like what they've seen from Webb, even if it is simply running scout teams. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense to at the very least not give him practice reps.
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You believe what you want and cherry pick opinions who agree with you while we let the results speak for themselves. I just watched Geno play a game with this team and it looked just about no different than any game Ive seen Eli play without Beckham this year
Love Eli, but hes not doing anything whatsoever to elevate this team from the minimal offensive ceiling they may have. Its over
What opinions did I cherry pick? Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cossell?
What other opinions are out there, non fan, right now about Eli being in decline or not? Those interviews happened last week. How is that cherry picking?
As a matter of fact, I havent heard any former or current coaches or players say they think Eli is in decline. Well, Charley Casserly is the only one that said hes not getting better. Thats the only one.
@NFLMatchup
Replying to @BobPapa_NFL @Giants
As far as raw numbers go, they have dropped the most passes in the league, with 30 drops, and also the highest percentage of targets, with 6.4%.
Any way you slice it, it's not good- a receiving core of backups is bound to have this happen.
@BobPapa_NFL
9m9 minutes ago
Thanks for update. The problem for them was the drops started before the starters got hurt.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?
There's only three weeks left in the season.
-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.
-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.
The one thing I think you're really underestimating is how much the media/fan hysterics of a couple weeks ago might affect the thinking of the new coach.
I think it would only be natural if the new coach was hesitant to invite a repeat of that same situation if/when the time came to transition to the young QB midseason. And if you're being honest with yourself, you know that a midseason switch would always be on the radar just like it was for Warner with Eli.
It might not be the top consideration, but it's not insignificant either.
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In comment 13735184 Beezer said:
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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?
You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.
So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?
How about trying to make a play...
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of weeks...
-A new coach likely would be able to hedge their bets by having a vet like Eli. That way, if you start winning, you're in position to actually make a run at something, but if you're losing, you buy yourself more time by putting it on Manning and then pulling him for the rookies, which would need more time to grow.
-This is a pretty common protocol for transition in the NFL.
The one thing I think you're really underestimating is how much the media/fan hysterics of a couple weeks ago might affect the thinking of the new coach.
I think it would only be natural if the new coach was hesitant to invite a repeat of that same situation if/when the time came to transition to the young QB midseason. And if you're being honest with yourself, you know that a midseason switch would always be on the radar just like it was for Warner with Eli.
It might not be the top consideration, but it's not insignificant either.
Actually I do think it would be different. There was zero reason to bench Eli last week and start Geno. None. It was a desperate, final act of two desperate men to save their jobs by once and for all dumping the failure at Eli's feet.
That's what the reaction was about.
They actually did the new regime a favor. Now the streak is over, and if a QB is drafted round one, you have a reason to bench Manning that fans can accept, if it comes to that.
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?
the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.
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In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:
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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?
There's only three weeks left in the season.
This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.
The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.
As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
So its nearly Christmas and we were 2-10 and decided to give the run 3 straight chances (4 if you count the penalty) versus putting the ball in the hands of Eli who can try and make a play?
the answer is simply...nobody believes he can and probably not even himself otherwise someone would say...lets give him a chance.
It was 1st and 20 after a 16 play drive, in a 3-0 game in which we are overmatched.
It's pretty common to go conservative and take the points, there. I see it week in, week out in the NFL, even with rosters much better than ours.
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In comment 13735302 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 13735233 Britt in VA said:
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there is a reason he's not active. What that reason is, I don't know.
But all of the information that is out there, that we are privy to, is that the people that make decisions don't think he's ready.
If that's maddening to you, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say. But that's what it's looking like right now, that he's not ready.
And it doesn't matter what you, me, the media, or anybody else except the people in the building that have the power to make the decision, thinks.
He got his first reps as a backup this past week, which was a short week for some reason (They started practice on Thursday I want to say). Give him at least 2 more weeks of reps as a backup, and I am sure he will dress and play in some games.
Give him at least two more weeks and then we'll see him dress and play in "some games"?
There's only three weeks left in the season.
This is what I was talking about, with you being an asshole. There is NO reason to act like a jerk.
The point being, they did not want to throw him to the Wolves with no preparation whatsoever.
As far as what he can gain from playing in our putrid offense, he can get to experience the speed of playing against an NFL team, and learn what it's like to process and make decisions when under that duress. Better he learns it sooner, rather then later.
Hahah, geez... How is stating the obvious being an asshole?
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.
And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.
To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.
You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?
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In comment 13735058 Jimmy Googs said:
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after a penalty its 1st & 20 on the Dallas 23rd yard line. We decide to run the ball three straight times and kick a FG instead of giving Eli Manning a chance to see if he can make a play.
Perfect example of why its over for him...
I think a more realistic view of this is that the Cowboys D set up in a formation that gave the Giants the run rather than pass. Eli, and Sullivan, saw this and checked into runs. Dallas was betting that we couldn't run the ball against them in a base setup, and they were correct. IMO this is more an indictment of our running game (line and backs) than anything to do with Eli.
You can't just always take what the opponent gives you - sometimes you have to impose your will on them. Of course they're going to give the Giants the run on 1st and 20! That's not necessarily an indictment of the Giants running game. Lombardi's Packers wouldn't consistently convert from a starting point of 1st and 20.
And I don't mean for that to be entirely on Eli, either, but the whole "take what the defense gives you" no matter what the circumstance is, is frustrating. We've seen it a number of times late in games as well, when the Giants have a chance to score to get back into the game, but continue to dink and dunk the clock away.
To the extent, however, that we know that Eli has historically been a gunslinger and that we believe he still has carte blanche when it comes to audibles, it's at least a little bit on him that he's become so much more conservative himself. It's not like he's never made a play in his career while throwing into coverage.
Look I'm not stating anything as fact, I'm just pointing out that there are other reasons here. I think, in my opinion not fact, that at that stage of the game, with long yardage to go and the D playing it as such, that the Giants decided it was more important to take the points. A lot of teams have also made that decision. I think it had more to do with the game situation than Eli.
1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again
Can this season just end already?
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In comment 13735223 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 13735184 Beezer said:
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But holy hell. Three straight running plays is an indication that Eli's lost it? Damn ... that's nutty.
Did you think you were watching the last 2 minutes of tie-game in the SuperBowl?
your nutty...
Do you not factor in ANY of the existing personnel?
You (and others) act as though personnel in these games makes zero difference.
So our first round pick match-up nightmare Tight End is not worthy of getting a chance? How about our second round pick slot guy from the year before? How about a throw to the back of the end zone that if our guy doesnt catch it nobody does?
How about trying to make a play...
Yeah, I'm with you. Just not putting those decisions on Eli. Unless he's calling the plays in the huddle, and in that case, OK. I just did not think he was.
I mean sure, he missed Ellison but that was the opening drive to make it 3-3, they settled for a FG anyway. There were three Cowboy defenders right by Ellison at the 25. I highly doubt that's a walk in touchdown if he hits him right in the hand. Same drive, three points.
Shepard practically ran to the same spot where Ellison was missed, just a few plays later. The Giants were done in by another dumb ass offensive lineman penalty.
It sets the tone...
A lot of coaches would play conservative there. We see it every week.
I say, they're 2-10 with nothing to lose, but that's not how they were thinking.
But give it a shot. Otherwise I think Webb can hand off 3 straight times too...
As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.
Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.
That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
As far as "elevating" the players around him, some of these guys weren't even on rosters 8 weeks ago. They'll go back to out of the NFL after this offseason. I think you're expecting too much.
Even Engram gets plenty of targets and catches. He also has a lot of drops.
That's pretty much the only reliable receiver he consistently has. And before you mention Sheppard, I said consistently.
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but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about.
You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"?
kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium.
We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...
In 2014 Eli was 6th in yards, and 6th in TD's in the NFL.
In 2015 Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's in the NFL.
He's had two bad years in an awful offense.
We scored 30 or more points 7 times in 2015, including 3 out of the last 4 games.
The offense changed a lot more than the player did, and the results everywhere reflect that.