Eli was bad today?

In comment 13735871 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 13735834 Britt in VA said: Quote: can "hand it off three straight times" since he hasn't taken many snaps from center. kind of amazing he can simply get out of bed each day and make it to the stadium. We really need to revamp the draft evaluation process and ask the students if they ever even played real football before...

You need to direct this at the guys making the decisions, the professionals that are currently evaluating this and coming to the conclusion that he isn't ready, not me.

Jimmy, I was just talking about that one play/drive in particular. I�m not saying he achieved an all-star performance that carried the team to a victory. It wasn�t that big of a mistake where he threw a pick 6 the other way , or even something inconsequential such as missing a wide open WR for a TD like he did vs the Rams. You�re right, 10 points is 10 points.

He�s my favorite Giant of all-time. I didn�t get to see much of LT. I didn�t get to see 1990 or really remember it, but I will acknowledge that he is getting older and he is starting to decline, not the same guy he was in 2011 of course.

I honestly think he has taken so much abuse and way too many hits over the course of his career that�s why it�s starting to show, mixed with age. He played in 210 straight games behind James Brewer, Will Beatty, and even Pughs no-shows against Philly.

I don't think it was ever in the itinerary for Eli to be �great� this season, was it? We were worried about him the most going into this season here on BBI. We were talking Super Bowl. We just needed "enough" from him because we thought this defense would return to its 2016 form and offensively Eli needed to be a pro manager, reading defenses and OBJ kind of do the rest. Come weeks 1 and 2 against a mediocre Dallas team, this offense with Beckham not 100% looked like �well, a team that was destined for 2-11.

That plan from 2016 didn�t translate over. Those two games to open the season were trash. The play calling, the clueless coaching, the bad blocking, drops, Marshall was essentially worthless.

He�s just playing for the sake of playing, I get it. But him missing a wide open guy and then forgetting about it and making a play like the one he made to Shepard on the very next one, that�s always kind of been his thing. The upside is the Giants are going to be getting a good draft pick and a shiny new QB.

2017 we were fucked from the start with the OBJ injury vs the Browns�

5 years of ELi

1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int

If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5

1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int

Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.

in 2014, when Eli was 6th in yards and 6th in TD's, McCown was 28th in yards and 30th in TD's.

in 2015, when Eli was 6th in yards and 3rd in TD's, McCown was 28th in yards and 30th in TD's.

Kind of silly, no?

In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:

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5 years of ELi 1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5 1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.

That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them.

Each season is it's own entity.

In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said:

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5 years of ELi 1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5 1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year.

McCown is done for the year now, but yeah, he had a much better year than anyone thought he would with no talent around him on the Jets. Pretty crazy.

you're essentially assuming them. That doesn't work either.

If you think any of that is relevant, I don't know what to tell you.

In comment 13735862 Bill L said:

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In comment 13735391 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 13735259 Bill L said: Quote: but I am saying that the truth is, there's as little to gain from that as playing Eli. Whether it's Webb, Smith, or eve3n Eli for that matter, at this point it is wanting them to play just to see them play. Neither Smith nor Webb has a future here. Webb would have had a future if we had made the playoffs or even just finished outside the playoffs. But we didn't, so he he doesn't. The only one with a future actually, is Eli and that's iffy at this point. His future is as a mentor or potential bridge to the franchise guy we are getting. And, we already know what Eli is, so there's no real need to evaluate him. For future purposes, the QB is the least important position to look at this season. YEt, it's the most talked about. You sure about that? Webb is an afterthought because of the "franchise guy we are getting"? I'm 100% sure. Exceptions don't change strategy.

Oh, I agree with you that you can't base your strategy around exceptions - I'm not denying that. But you're the one declaring that Webb has no future with this team and I'm just saying that there's no way for you to know that. It's entirely possible that the supposed franchise QB the Giants select could wash out, and it's also possible that they both end up being very good with Webb being even better than whoever they draft.

I'm not disagreeing with the premise of the Giants selecting a QB at the top of the draft, just the certainty that anyone can say for sure that Webb has no future with the team. And I used Cousins as the example because he was drafted three rounds behind Griffin (in the same draft) with the idea that Griffin would be the franchise QB and Cousins would be likely be just a backup or trade bait. Years later, Griffin is currently out of the league while Cousins has thrown for more than twice as many TDs as RG3 over their careers and is poised to cash in with a huge contract.

There just isn't a way for you (or anyone else) to be certain that Webb has no future with the team.

until he stops being ignored.

Stay the course, the offense will come around some day...

In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: 5 years of ELi 1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5 1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year. That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them. Each season is it's own entity.

I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.

In comment 13735918 Thegratefulhead said:

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In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: 5 years of ELi 1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5 1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year. That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them. Each season is it's own entity. I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out.

Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?

Wanna compare Eli to Rivers last 5?

1833 2815 65.12% 21553 148 70

2013:

Eli Manning: 14th in the NFL in yards, 21st in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 27th in TD's

2014:

Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 6th in TD's
Josh McCown: 28th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's

2015:

Eli Manning: 6th in the NFL in yards, 3rd in TD's
Josh McCown: 30th in the NFL in yards, 30th in TD's

2016:

Eli Manning: 13th in the NFL in yards, 11th in TD's
Josh McCown: 34th in the NFL in yards, 35th in TD's

Are you really saying this is comparable?

In comment 13735921 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 13735918 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: In comment 13735905 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 13735893 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: 5 years of ELi 1738 Comp 2809 Att 61.87% 19326yds 124TD 80 Int If you take McCown this year extrapolate for 16 games and multiply by 5 1643 Comp 2443 Att 67% 18006 YDS 111 TD 55 Int Fumble make Eli look worse...Eli is not worth his contract. Jets were thought by some to have worst talent in NFL to start season. That isn't 20 million a year play and it not just this year. That's not how stats in football work. You can't combine five seasons and compare them. Each season is it's own entity. I'm giving you a season at the Jets with terrible talent around him for an older QB and making it 5 years. I gave Eli Stats for the last 5 years starting at 2013. Eli last 5 years is journeyman stats, you cannot spin or deflect your way out. Did 2014 and 2015 occur in the last five years?

You are reaching Britt...forget the comparison. Has Eli earned his money the last 5 years. Has it been 20 million a year production? Do you expect him to get better?

because you're comparison is completely nuts. I see why you want to shift gears.

this thread has run it's course.

Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.

In comment 13735943 Britt in VA said:

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because you're comparison is completely nuts. I see why you want to shift gears.

Yeah, because it was the point I was trying to make. That Eli is not worth his money and you picked apart the comparison...fine it was never my point we both know it. He has put up journeyman stats for the last 5 years. Statistically speaking at 36/37 it is very unlikely to expect better performance, very likely he gets worse...regardless of how lively his arm is.

when they say Eli isn't the solution going forward.

In comment 13733634 section125 said:

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were the WR screen he threw too high and allowed the DB to make the play and the pass to Engram that should have been PI, Illegal Contact or Holding. Other than that, I thought he was extremely accurate.

.

Yep, that pass to Ellison where nobody was within five yards
of the guy was extremely accurate in the first half.
The ball was five yards over his head too!
Guess you had stepped away from the tube huh?

In comment 13735949 Britt in VA said:

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this thread has run it's course. Nobody is changing anybody's mind. We'll just watch it play out and see what happens, then revisit later.

.....
Route 9 : 11:43 am : link : reply
Same old shit.

1. Britt talks well about Eli again
2. Gatorade Jimmy Googs and others debate the same thing over and over... again
3. Arc comes in as the middle ground and nails everything, right on the head...again

Fuck yesterday, fuck one game. It was not any better than Geno fucking Smith. That's the Eli bar now. Are we better with Eli or Geno? Well if you just look at the last 2 games, they are the same(Geno might have been a stitch better with less practice and experience) You need to look at the last few years, not one game, when making a decision about Eli. You can reasonably expect him to get worse. It isn't worth his salary, end of story.

to revisit next season, whether Eli is here or somewhere else.

It's all archived right here on BBI.

All we can do is wait and see, now.

In comment 13736076 Britt in VA said:

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to revisit next season, whether Eli is here or somewhere else. It's all archived right here on BBI. All we can do is wait and see, now.

agreed