I won't get into the specifics, but about 11 or 12 years ago, I was taking some Sports Management graduate courses in Pro Football GM, Scouting, and Salary Cap Management and had the unique opportunity to work on a project with the Giants front office (through a referral from someone else who works within the Giants organization).
I was blown away with how helpful, approachable, accessible, and friendly Ernie Accorsi, Matt Harriss (now with the Lions front office), and especially Kevin Abrams were (Abrams went out of his way to spend an hour with me and encouraged me to to reach out to him should I need anything further).
David Gettleman was the only person who would not make himself available and when I reached out to him in a formal email and addressed him as "David", he replied: "you will address me as 'MR. GETTLEMAN'".
Needless to say, I was not surprised by what a nightmare he was in Carolina in burning bridges and driving himself out of the organization, despite being a good player evaluator. There isn't a single Panthers player who has nice things to say about him. He may be a good football operations guy but in my opinion he is a lousy human being and would be an embarrassment for the Giants franchise to have someone like this managing the roster.
Mainly Steve Smith was the issue. He handled a franchise legend about as poorly as Ben McAdoo and Jerry Reese did.
I don t know anything about him. If he s the pick I hope it turns out to be a great GM
I just don t think the OP s premise based on a personal experience with
Gettleman is relevant to his ability to be a good GM
And whether you give him the credit or not, his team did play well that season.
You say he a jerk, ok. If he is a good talent evaluator and makes decisions that improve the roster, don t see where his personality will be a problem.
Wonder how nice Belichick would have been to you in a similar situation.
Not dismissing what you re saying, but not much evidence to suggest he would be a bad pick
A.J. Smith
We need a guy like this - he's good at finding players, cleaning up messes, etc. His track record speaks for itself!
I have no idea if Gettleman would be a good GM for us or not. But a spoiled brat college kid getting offended bc a professional executive didn’t have time for him one day, then insisted he address him with a degree of formal respect doesn’t change my opinion for better or worse.
You certain they made the right choice firing him. That first team he put together was pretty good down there.
Not Cam, Not Stewart, not Olson
13 of the 16 guys he drafted are still on the team, 10 are starting.
That s pretty good
They do indeed challenge the manner in which he communicates which most of the articles intimate why he was let go.
Seems like a guy that should be given consideration...
In his next, he took Kelvin Benjamin, Kony Ealy, Trai Turner and Bene Benewike. He's also drafted Vernon Butler, Devon Funchess and Shaq Thompson, all who have been solid contributors.
He was let go from Carolina because he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go (which the owner was OK with). He let Josh Norman leave (which the owner was OK with). But when he looked at moving and/or restructuring Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen, who are Richardson's closest players, he got canned. Richardson told him if he didn't back off looking at those things, he'd be fired and Gettleman told him it is his job to look at those things.
How this is being spun as him being a "nightmare" confuses me.
I have no idea if Gettleman would be a good GM for us or not. But a spoiled brat college kid getting offended bc a professional executive didn’t have time for him one day, then insisted he address him with a degree of formal respect doesn’t change my opinion for better or worse.
“Spoiled college brat”? Wtf is wrong with you. I was not a “college kid”, I was a professional in the workforce taking these courses on my own time. I was working my ass off to pursue knowledge in something I am extremely interested/passionate about so I can understand and discuss football operations/personnel far better than people like you.
I guess your parents and professors never taught you anything about work ethic, intellectual curiosity, or making baseless assumptions.
In his next, he took Kelvin Benjamin, Kony Ealy, Trai Turner and Bene Benewike. He's also drafted Vernon Butler, Devon Funchess and Shaq Thompson, all who have been solid contributors.
He was let go from Carolina because he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go (which the owner was OK with). He let Josh Norman leave (which the owner was OK with). But when he looked at moving and/or restructuring Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen, who are Richardson's closest players, he got canned. Richardson told him if he didn't back off looking at those things, he'd be fired and Gettleman told him it is his job to look at those things.
How this is being spun as him being a "nightmare" confuses me.
It's not a nightmare. In fact , his sense of independence is a reason why he could be a good fit remedy. Depending on how badly he wants and needs the job , he should probably attempt to have a "no interference" codicil written into his contract .
I don't like a fundamentalist ,dogmatic approach to managing the cap, which is simply an accounting device . Nor do I think you need to lose core players because of it. So he has to pull the horns in a bit in those areas.
Note to the above: although we are in the "anything goes " dissolution of business etiquette, when writing to a person of authority , use Ms. Or Mr. until directed otherwise . Perhaps Mr G. Is the Edmund Newman Strictly Speaking type .
Of interest, Gettleman drafted Shaq Thompson, a guy whose height/weight at the time he was drafted would have scared the Giants; they like their LBs bigger. So he showed more flexibility than the Giants do in that regard, a good thing imo.
In his next, he took Kelvin Benjamin, Kony Ealy, Trai Turner and Bene Benewike. He's also drafted Vernon Butler, Devon Funchess and Shaq Thompson, all who have been solid contributors.
He was let go from Carolina because he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go (which the owner was OK with). He let Josh Norman leave (which the owner was OK with). But when he looked at moving and/or restructuring Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen, who are Richardson's closest players, he got canned. Richardson told him if he didn't back off looking at those things, he'd be fired and Gettleman told him it is his job to look at those things.
How this is being spun as him being a "nightmare" confuses me.
Completely agree with this
I'm not trying to cheerlead for Gettleman as the truth is none of us have enough knowledge or experience to know who would and would not be a good fit for GM. But most posters on this site make it wound like Gettleman would be just like Reese, if not worse.
First, let's all admit that the Mara's are highly unlikely to hire a GM that is A: Inexperienced B: One they have no familiarity with. The fanbase wants to see a new face and a new name. Don't get your hopes up. The Giants view the GM position as the guardian of franchise stability. They are going to be risk averse here, preferring known quantities and stability to a homerun swing. Not saying this means Gettleman is a shoe in (he might be) but it certainly points to what we know to be true. Gettleman is a front runner and John Dorsey was getting an interview.
Second, personality conflicts aside, what decisions on veteran players did Gettleman make in Carolina that were actually detrimental the long term success of the team? I'll give you he should have traded Norman instead of just rescinding the tag, but Josh Norman was a 28 year old CB at the time, who was a better zone cover guy than a man-to-man guy, wasn't exactly easy to deal with, and didn't always cover the #1 WR. I think the skins overpaid and what difference has that really made for them? Now I love Steve Smith, great competitor, but is there any doubt he was on the downside of his career when Gettleman showed him the door? Same with D'Angelo Williams. It's always said it's better to let a player go a year too early than a year too late. This is how the New England Patriots operate and no one criticizes them for it. It's what 5 rings can do for you.
Finally, I would think most of BBI would be jumping up and down for Gettleman based on his draft priorities. From 2013 to 2017 he spent first round picks on a running back (Christian McCaffrey) a LB (Shaq Thompson), and used high draft choices on extremely tall and athletic WRs (Devin Funchess, and Kelvin Benjamin). He also regularly drafted OL and LBs between 2013-2017.
I'm not saying Gettleman is going to be great, not saying he is going to flop. But it's hard to argue with his resume. Also, consider this. The Mara's don't want to completely wipe the slate clean. They are not looking for a complete razing of the organization. They want to find their foundation again. They want to go back to the Giant's identity. It's fair to see over the past 5 years the Panthers have looked more like a traditional Giants team (minus the mobile QB that Gettleman inherited) than the Giants have. It's quite possible Mara looks at Gettleman and sees a traditional NY Giants GM.
But one gets the impression, hopefully wrong, that the Mara's are scared to objectively think about who is out there to manage this team at this juncture and simply pick the phone up.
Be it known GM's, assistant GMs. What have you. It's a great historic team in a great city. Why do they seem so terrified of people they don't already know, or can check through someone they know directly. Hopefully it's not even true.
In his next, he took Kelvin Benjamin, Kony Ealy, Trai Turner and Bene Benewike. He's also drafted Vernon Butler, Devon Funchess and Shaq Thompson, all who have been solid contributors.[/quote]
Kony Ealy is a bust. 2nd round pick. Benwikere isn't on the team. Funchess is a decent player. He traded a 2nd, 3rd, and 6th to get him.
Shaq Thompson is decent. We're talking mild success with first and second round players.
We need a guy like this - he's good at finding players, cleaning up messes, etc. His track record speaks for itself!
I've been in lots of graduate/medical courses where if you "daved" your professor, you'd be "doctored" up and down. And, I don't necessarily think it would be due to insecurity on the professor's part. There's a bit of a respect issue and appropriateness of student/professor relationships.
In his next, he took Kelvin Benjamin, Kony Ealy, Trai Turner and Bene Benewike. He's also drafted Vernon Butler, Devon Funchess and Shaq Thompson, all who have been solid contributors.
He was let go from Carolina because he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go (which the owner was OK with). He let Josh Norman leave (which the owner was OK with). But when he looked at moving and/or restructuring Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen, who are Richardson's closest players, he got canned. Richardson told him if he didn't back off looking at those things, he'd be fired and Gettleman told him it is his job to look at those things.
How this is being spun as him being a "nightmare" confuses me.
Could it be that some of the same people who excoriated Reese for overpaying older vets like JPP are also excoriating Gettleman for not giving aging vets fact new contracts? Shocking.
"and" he adjusted.
Gettleman isn't going to operate in a vacuum, and a dysfunctional front office is the last thing they need right now.
So "op", "Mr" is the appropriate Address. I would consider his response to you a positive in considering hiring him. You I would keep in the mail room.
Do you enjoy when young people make sweeping generalizations about your generation?
So "op", "Mr" is the appropriate Address. I would consider his response to you a positive in considering hiring him. You I would keep in the mail room.
It may be annoying, but it's actually very disrespectful. I won't say an entire generation does this, but it does seem like more of the younger generation is either unaware or simply doesn't care about showing the proper respect to elders. If I meet someone and they are my senior, unless I was introduced to them by their first name, then I use Mr., Mrs. or Miss and their last name. Giving respect earns you respect in return. And it shows your parents raised you well.
Over the years, I've failed in this area a time or two via a momentary lapse, where mouth moved faster than brain...and I would feel embarrassed by it.
Anyway, this isn't just professional, it's basic manners and courtesy.
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But honestly - what made you think it was acceptable for a college kid to address him by his first name in an introductory professional email, when you had no prior relationship with him? Did neither your parents nor any professors teach you some basic standards of professional courtesy?
I have no idea if Gettleman would be a good GM for us or not. But a spoiled brat college kid getting offended bc a professional executive didn’t have time for him one day, then insisted he address him with a degree of formal respect doesn’t change my opinion for better or worse.
“Spoiled college brat”? Wtf is wrong with you. I was not a “college kid”, I was a professional in the workforce taking these courses on my own time. I was working my ass off to pursue knowledge in something I am extremely interested/passionate about so I can understand and discuss football operations/personnel far better than people like you.
I guess your parents and professors never taught you anything about work ethic, intellectual curiosity, or making baseless assumptions.
Can’t handle a little criticism huh? Regardless of how old you were at the time of this interaction, you come across as a spoiled brat.
And judging Gettleman’s GM abilities because he insisted on a higher degree of professional courtesy? That’s the definition of baseless assumption.
I wish you good luck in surrounding yourself with people who are really nice to you in your professional career.
That said, I like Gettleman's drafting approach, I like his success rate. I am not at all bothered by his demeanor, even if he is generally rough or brisk or too short with people.
What bothers me is his age. 66 is no spring chicken.
So "op", "Mr" is the appropriate Address. I would consider his response to you a positive in considering hiring him. You I would keep in the mail room.
Wow. Just wow. Hey Doc, don't you think maybe you have a tiny touch of insecurity?
When I took sworn testimony from people who told me how to address them (usually PhDs but sometimes MDs) I, of course, took every advantage of getting under their skin ... which was soooooo so easy to do. A false sense of entitlement is what we are talking about here. A GM needs people skills - it is an essential part of the GM's toolbox.
it doesn't necessarily mean he is always a rude or douchey person. or a bad human being. or not NYG material. presumably his boss (Accorsi) is a better judge of that.
maybe his wife gave him shit that morning for not doing the dishes properly and he was in a foul mood.
it certainly doesn't also disqualify him from being a candidate for GM.
the great warren buffet once said that one of his keys to success is saying "No", whether to investment opportunities or extracurriculars that are non value adding. i.e. you need to focus your limited time and energy on things that matter. in that respect, maybe DG didn't think that he had the bandwidth to assist you on your school project.
it doesn't necessarily mean he is always a rude or douchey person. or a bad human being. or not NYG material. presumably his boss (Accorsi) is a better judge of that.
maybe his wife gave him shit that morning for not doing the dishes properly and he was in a foul mood.
it certainly doesn't also disqualify him from being a candidate for GM.
the great warren buffet once said that one of his keys to success is saying "No", whether to investment opportunities or extracurriculars that are non value adding. i.e. you need to focus your limited time and energy on things that matter. in that respect, maybe DG didn't think that he had the bandwidth to assist you on your school project.
If only that was true ... but the overwhelming number of articles online about his firing demonstrate he has horrendous interpersonal skills ... and when he let WR Smith go (the best player in franchise history) - he couldn't bother to talk to him in person and Smith found out on the radio ...
He sounds like a skilled talent evaluator who would be great heading up the scouting department ... but a GM with antagonistic interpersonal skills is asking for trouble imo (and being fired as GM one week before training camp opened in NC is itself a huge red flag).
He has never replaced the toilet paper roll. Not once!
He parks horizontally across three parking spaces!
When other cars try to pass him on the highway, he always speeds up to prevent them!
*note - I don't want him hired either, but not because of silly things like this thread.
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To their seniors when they meet rhem for the first time, annoys many of us older generation people. When I call and some 20 year old asks my name and then uses my first name when she doesn't know me is annoying. Worst are those who use "Doc" which I condiser demeaning.
So "op", "Mr" is the appropriate Address. I would consider his response to you a positive in considering hiring him. You I would keep in the mail room.
Wow. Just wow. Hey Doc, don't you think maybe you have a tiny touch of insecurity?
When I took sworn testimony from people who told me how to address them (usually PhDs but sometimes MDs) I, of course, took every advantage of getting under their skin ... which was soooooo so easy to do. A false sense of entitlement is what we are talking about here. A GM needs people skills - it is an essential part of the GM's toolbox.
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In comment 13735218 plato said:
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To their seniors when they meet rhem for the first time, annoys many of us older generation people. When I call and some 20 year old asks my name and then uses my first name when she doesn't know me is annoying. Worst are those who use "Doc" which I condiser demeaning.
So "op", "Mr" is the appropriate Address. I would consider his response to you a positive in considering hiring him. You I would keep in the mail room.
Wow. Just wow. Hey Doc, don't you think maybe you have a tiny touch of insecurity?
When I took sworn testimony from people who told me how to address them (usually PhDs but sometimes MDs) I, of course, took every advantage of getting under their skin ... which was soooooo so easy to do. A false sense of entitlement is what we are talking about here. A GM needs people skills - it is an essential part of the GM's toolbox.
That's weird to me. My experience is so much different in that most of the PhD's I've encountered have been waaay less title-conscious and much more inclined be informal than M.D.'s.
I find either one rather obnoxious.