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Good read on Gettleman's demise in Carolina

GiantGrit : 12/11/2017 1:38 am
From The Ringer. Some here have already mentioned Michael Lombardi, he's an old Patriot exec who spent time with the Browns. Lombardi seems to believe Gettleman simply made tough calls, but smart decisions. Mentions how the owner never bought into Gettleman's style. Personally, it gave me a little more comfort in Gettleman potentially being the guy. Last line stood out to me:


"Do I think theyíre going to continue to win and continue to get good players? Iím not sure of that, because I think Dave Gettleman was really good at his job."
Link - ( New Window )
Another good  
1st and 10 : 12/11/2017 3:32 am : link
article on his draft history with Carolina.
Link - ( New Window )
If Gettleman is a stop-gap for Abrams, fine...  
SHO'NUFF : 12/11/2017 4:11 am : link
but I still don't think Mara gets it and won't go out of his comfort zone.
Hopefully  
cokeduplt : 12/11/2017 5:55 am : link
The giants make him wear pants at the very least
I think there is a big difference  
robbieballs2003 : 12/11/2017 6:17 am : link
Between making tough decisions and having negative relationships with players. Any businesss is always about developing relationships. You can develop relationships and still make the tough decisions. I think the Giants are going to be making a huge mistake hiring Gettleman as their GM. I wouldn't mind him on staff but not the main guy in charge. It is just more of the same.
Lombardi  
Sammo85 : 12/11/2017 6:35 am : link
The problem was not Gettleman making tough decisions or sticking to a specific value and cost discussion with agents and players. Itís how he went about them. He also did a terrible job handling the Josh Norman situation.

I fail to see whatís Gettleman brings to the Giants. Guaranteed he keeps Marc Ross and Ken Sternfeld on if heís the GM. More of the same as under Reese. Heís going to be 67. Once he retires then we get Abrams? How are we going to get our scouting, drafting, player development and pro personnel back up to par by essentially not making any changes?

Iím expecting another poor draft come April. Weíll get the big fish in Rd 1 and miss everywhere else.

The most important quality that you want in a gm  
Ira : 12/11/2017 6:57 am : link
is the ability to judge talent. The next most important quality is the ability to manage the cap. Gettleman has both of these abilities. He does need to learn how to speak to the media and to players and their reps. But I think his experience in Charlotte will make him more careful in that regard.
Since it seems clear he's the guy ...  
FStubbs : 12/11/2017 6:58 am : link
... who Chris Mara will attach the puppet strings to, I'll have to hold my nose and hope for the best.
Gonna be the  
spike : 12/11/2017 7:05 am : link
70s again
Hate the idea of hiring Gettlemen  
djstat : 12/11/2017 7:30 am : link
Go outside the box. ChrsMara hs a job for life...so move on
Lets try and look at this rationally...  
Emil : 12/11/2017 7:39 am : link
I emphasize try.

I'm not trying to cheerlead for Gettleman as the truth is none of us have enough knowledge or experience to know who would and would not be a good fit for GM. But most posters on this site make it wound like Gettleman would be just like Reese, if not worse.

First, let's all admit that the Mara's are highly unlikely to hire a GM that is A: Inexperienced B: One they have no familiarity with. The fanbase wants to see a new face and a new name. Don't get your hopes up. The Giants view the GM position as the guardian of franchise stability. They are going to be risk averse here, preferring known quantities and stability to a homerun swing. Not saying this means Gettleman is a shoe in (he might be) but it certainly points to what we know to be true. Gettleman is a front runner and John Dorsey was getting an interview.

Second, personality conflicts aside, what decisions on veteran players did Gettleman make in Carolina that were actually detrimental the long term success of the team? I'll give you he should have traded Norman instead of just rescinding the tag, but Josh Norman was a 28 year old CB at the time, who was a better zone cover guy than a man-to-man guy, wasn't exactly easy to deal with, and didn't always cover the #1 WR. I think the skins overpaid and what difference has that really made for them? Now I love Steve Smith, great competitor, but is there any doubt he was on the downside of his career when Gettleman showed him the door? Same with D'Angelo Williams. It's always said it's better to let a player go a year too early than a year too late. This is how the New England Patriots operate and no one criticizes them for it. It's what 5 rings can do for you.

Finally, I would think most of BBI would be jumping up and down for Gettleman based on his draft priorities. From 2013 to 2017 he spent first round picks on a running back (Christian McCaffrey) a LB (Shaq Thompson), and used high draft choices on extremely tall and athletic WRs (Devin Funchess, and Kelvin Benjamin). He also regularly drafted OL and LBs between 2013-2017.

I'm not saying Gettleman is going to be great, not saying he is going to flop. But it's hard to argue with his resume. Also, consider this. The Mara's don't want to completely wipe the slate clean. They are not looking for a complete razing of the organization. They want to find their foundation again. They want to go back to the Giant's identity. It's fair to see over the past 5 years the Panthers have looked more like a traditional Giants team (minus the mobile QB that Gettleman inherited) than the Giants have. It's quite possible Mara looks at Gettleman and sees a traditional NY Giants GM.
Not sure how reliable SBNation is  
Beer Man : 12/11/2017 8:04 am : link
But their saying the Giants may hire Gettleman this week.
SBNation - ( New Window )
Gettleman is another Old school Giant  
Alwaysblue22 : 12/11/2017 8:28 am : link
Mara needs to look at the best run organization in the NFL..New England... and push hard to hire from there. NO MORE GIANT connections. This team has never played up to it full potential with the Giants boy's club running it. Even in our two SB years this team was 10-6 and 9-7. Is this a standard of excellence? ... NO. How many times do you think you can sneak in with a half baked cake. If Mara goes the same old route .. we will get the same result. Then we will know that the problem is not the players or the coaches ...the problem is John Mara.
New England..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/11/2017 8:30 am : link
isn't the best run organization - it is the most successful one. Mainly because of BB and Brady.
We should look at New England because they have no Giant  
Jimmy Googs : 12/11/2017 8:30 am : link
connections???

my favorite post of the day so far...
Itís funny  
WillVAB : 12/11/2017 9:01 am : link
A few years ago when Carolina was on their run everyone said Gettleman was the one who got away and the Giants shouldíve kept him instead of Reese. Now when that might become a reality, people donít want it.
RE: Lets try and look at this rationally...  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/11/2017 9:17 am : link
In comment 13734920 Emil said:
Quote:
I emphasize try.


I'm not saying Gettleman is going to be great, not saying he is going to flop. But it's hard to argue with his resume. Also, consider this. The Mara's don't want to completely wipe the slate clean. They are not looking for a complete razing of the organization. They want to find their foundation again. They want to go back to the Giant's identity. It's fair to see over the past 5 years the Panthers have looked more like a traditional Giants team (minus the mobile QB that Gettleman inherited) than the Giants have. It's quite possible Mara looks at Gettleman and sees a traditional NY Giants GM.


Excellent post Emil, well thought out.
Another wasy to look at it  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 9:19 am : link
might be that ownership figures Gettleman, with his reputation about personality, would be the perfect front man for cutting Eli. He could take the blow and then leave shortly thereafter and ownership would be somewhat insulated.
People Want Sexy  
Bernie : 12/11/2017 9:25 am : link
and Gettleman is not sexy. I love the fact he did not overpay for talent and he is a player personnel guy. Reese consistently overpaid and consistently made bad draft picks.
I yawn at the fact some of the Panthers were pissed they were not getting their money - big shocker there, everyone wants more; everyone. So from a front office perspective, I have no problem with Gettleman. Last line of the article - "he is really good at his job"
Bill that makes little  
idiotsavant : 12/11/2017 9:29 am : link
Sense - if they are unwilling to hire outside of known associates or employees of friends, or to analyze the league trends vs team needs in this search, it doesn't seem like they would make a hire for one quick task and then start again.
New England Hagiography  
clatterbuck : 12/11/2017 9:39 am : link
Ignore the poor performance and lousy results of McDaniel, Pioli, etc once they leave Belichick. Insist on hiring the Caserio/McDaniel tandem without any real understanding of what Caserio actually does, what his role is in the Pats organization. Conversely, excoriate Giants for considering Gettleman even though his M.O. of not letting sentimentality undercut evaluation and decision on aging players and assigning cap value via positions. Reject Gettleman out of hand because he's been here before even though a candidate with a similar resume coming out of a different organization would likely be looked upon favorably. I'm happy fans can express their opinions. I'm also happy they don't have a vote on the outcome.
RE: Bill that makes little  
Bill L : 12/11/2017 9:40 am : link
In comment 13735071 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Sense - if they are unwilling to hire outside of known associates or employees of friends, or to analyze the league trends vs team needs in this search, it doesn't seem like they would make a hire for one quick task and then start again.
I didn't mean he would leave right away afterward. More in the 3-5 year time frame. There's a good chance that they will want to cut Eli this off-season. I think it makes sense that they would want to bring in a hangman to do it.
If I was going to use a narrow metric, bill  
idiotsavant : 12/11/2017 9:48 am : link
It would be looking at the top 5 team run stats from the last few years and specifically hire a person or people who I.D. d the linesmen, coaches and rbs that made that happen.

Anyone can play hangman.
RE: Lets try and look at this rationally...  
KeoweeFan : 12/11/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13734920 Emil said:
Quote:
I emphasize try.

I'm not trying to cheerlead for Gettleman as the truth is none of us have enough knowledge or experience to know who would and would not be a good fit for GM. But most posters on this site make it wound like Gettleman would be just like Reese, if not worse.

First, let's all admit that the Mara's are highly unlikely to hire a GM that is A: Inexperienced B: One they have no familiarity with. The fanbase wants to see a new face and a new name. Don't get your hopes up. The Giants view the GM position as the guardian of franchise stability. They are going to be risk averse here, preferring known quantities and stability to a homerun swing. Not saying this means Gettleman is a shoe in (he might be) but it certainly points to what we know to be true. Gettleman is a front runner and John Dorsey was getting an interview.

Second, personality conflicts aside, what decisions on veteran players did Gettleman make in Carolina that were actually detrimental the long term success of the team? I'll give you he should have traded Norman instead of just rescinding the tag, but Josh Norman was a 28 year old CB at the time, who was a better zone cover guy than a man-to-man guy, wasn't exactly easy to deal with, and didn't always cover the #1 WR. I think the skins overpaid and what difference has that really made for them? Now I love Steve Smith, great competitor, but is there any doubt he was on the downside of his career when Gettleman showed him the door? Same with D'Angelo Williams. It's always said it's better to let a player go a year too early than a year too late. This is how the New England Patriots operate and no one criticizes them for it. It's what 5 rings can do for you.

Finally, I would think most of BBI would be jumping up and down for Gettleman based on his draft priorities. From 2013 to 2017 he spent first round picks on a running back (Christian McCaffrey) a LB (Shaq Thompson), and used high draft choices on extremely tall and athletic WRs (Devin Funchess, and Kelvin Benjamin). He also regularly drafted OL and LBs between 2013-2017.

I'm not saying Gettleman is going to be great, not saying he is going to flop. But it's hard to argue with his resume. Also, consider this. The Mara's don't want to completely wipe the slate clean. They are not looking for a complete razing of the organization. They want to find their foundation again. They want to go back to the Giant's identity. It's fair to see over the past 5 years the Panthers have looked more like a traditional Giants team (minus the mobile QB that Gettleman inherited) than the Giants have. It's quite possible Mara looks at Gettleman and sees a traditional NY Giants GM.

The next GM will have some complex personnel decisions (beyond the draft).
There is some feeling that the Giants are over-invested in high salary "stars" from whom they are not getting value. Could they be traded for younger players with promise or for draft picks? But who?? And how to get value for them?
It's like the Marketing manager who says "I know for certain that on half my advertising dollars are wasted; I just don't know which half!"
If you guys want to argue that Reese didn't deliver two SBs  
David B. : 12/11/2017 10:06 am : link
That Accorsi gave us 2007, you'd also have to remember that Gettleman's fingerprints were all over 2011, and realize that it's when he LEFT, the drafting really went south.

The Giants DO know him and know exactly what they will get with him. That may be a comforting factor to them, or it may work against him as well (if they truly want new blood).

Frankly, I'd prefer any of the guys from the Pats tree -- Cesario, Pioli, those guys

MINIMALLY, What the Giants should NOT do is just hire DG without talking to the other candidates who aren't available after the season. Do their due diligence, hear other people's ideas, and then decide.

I've been saying this too.  
Powerclean765 : 12/11/2017 10:10 am : link
Gettleman did a good job in Carolina. Their owner is a good ol boy who likes things done in a small market way.

DG had a great track record with the Giants and they didn't want to lose him, but couldn't just fire Reese in 2012. Sure he's an "old hire" but the Giants won 2 Super Bowls they don't exactly have to re-invent the wheel. They just need to get back to what works.
RE: Lets try and look at this rationally...  
BLUATHRT : 12/11/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13734920 Emil said:
Quote:
I emphasize try.

I'm not trying to cheerlead for Gettleman as the truth is none of us have enough knowledge or experience to know who would and would not be a good fit for GM. But most posters on this site make it wound like Gettleman would be just like Reese, if not worse.

First, let's all admit that the Mara's are highly unlikely to hire a GM that is A: Inexperienced B: One they have no familiarity with. The fanbase wants to see a new face and a new name. Don't get your hopes up. The Giants view the GM position as the guardian of franchise stability. They are going to be risk averse here, preferring known quantities and stability to a homerun swing. Not saying this means Gettleman is a shoe in (he might be) but it certainly points to what we know to be true. Gettleman is a front runner and John Dorsey was getting an interview.

Second, personality conflicts aside, what decisions on veteran players did Gettleman make in Carolina that were actually detrimental the long term success of the team? I'll give you he should have traded Norman instead of just rescinding the tag, but Josh Norman was a 28 year old CB at the time, who was a better zone cover guy than a man-to-man guy, wasn't exactly easy to deal with, and didn't always cover the #1 WR. I think the skins overpaid and what difference has that really made for them? Now I love Steve Smith, great competitor, but is there any doubt he was on the downside of his career when Gettleman showed him the door? Same with D'Angelo Williams. It's always said it's better to let a player go a year too early than a year too late. This is how the New England Patriots operate and no one criticizes them for it. It's what 5 rings can do for you.

Finally, I would think most of BBI would be jumping up and down for Gettleman based on his draft priorities. From 2013 to 2017 he spent first round picks on a running back (Christian McCaffrey) a LB (Shaq Thompson), and used high draft choices on extremely tall and athletic WRs (Devin Funchess, and Kelvin Benjamin). He also regularly drafted OL and LBs between 2013-2017.

I'm not saying Gettleman is going to be great, not saying he is going to flop. But it's hard to argue with his resume. Also, consider this. The Mara's don't want to completely wipe the slate clean. They are not looking for a complete razing of the organization. They want to find their foundation again. They want to go back to the Giant's identity. It's fair to see over the past 5 years the Panthers have looked more like a traditional Giants team (minus the mobile QB that Gettleman inherited) than the Giants have. It's quite possible Mara looks at Gettleman and sees a traditional NY Giants GM.


This. Nobody has said it better on all the posts I've read. Well said.
Lets just hope he 'values postions' differently than Reese  
weeg in the bronx : 12/11/2017 12:27 pm : link
Reese spent most of his career with ignoring the TE and not enough focus on the OL. RB hasn't been high on the list either, be it in the draft or via FA where he feels anyone can be plugged in.
The only thing Reese valued  
Alwaysblue22 : 12/17/2017 11:16 am : link
The only thing Reese Valued was skill position players. He had a blind spot for anyone who played on the line of scrimmage for the offense. On defense he was blind to the need for fast linebackers.He was blind to the need for better quality back ups at nearly every position. In regard to his blind spots he thought, as someone else on here mentioned, that you can PLUG ANYONE IN . That resulted in the debacle of a team that we are witnessing today. Every year he went or a quick fix and expected a SB run. There are no quick fixes. You need to carefully fill out your roster from front to back with high quality players keeping in mind that you are building a team in the NFL and not college . In the NFL if you leave holes on your roster anywhere those holes will be exploited. That is how high the level of competition is at this level.
Gettleman  
Joey in VA : 12/17/2017 11:40 am : link
Was the guy who found FAs primarily. He was the guy stocking the end of the roster and he hit on a lot of those guys. We had decent OL continuity in large part because of the work he did. After he left we were treated to Erik Flowers and John Jerry and Marshall Newhouse. The Pro Personnel department took a nosedive when he left, and if you think Chris Mara is being removed from that post you're nuts. He should be out on his horse riding keester but instead he's the head of pro personnel. Gettleman was light years better at it.
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