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NFT: Francesa on Stanton deal

Ace718 : 12/11/2017 1:19 pm
So, just tuned into WFAN to hear what the pope has to say on the deal. His views so far have been surprising but I guess it has sonething to do with him being so adamant that Stanton would not be on the Yakees.

- He is not a fan of the deal
- It will create problems in the clubhouse
- Judge goes from being face of the franchise to 2nd. Stanton will be the face now.
- Players like Judge and Sanchez will be pissed of when they see how much Stanton is making compared to them with similar production
- It's a trade the Yankees could not pass up on but he doesn't like it
- Yankees plan of going under tax fgoes out the window if they want to add another pitcher


This is some of what he has said. He's really off on a few points. No matter how good Stanton is, the face of this franchise is going to be Aaron Judge. Don't know what Mike's going on about. Yankees still have a lot of flexibility in signing a good starting pitcher. They can still spend a lon next year with so much money coming off the books.
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This is like making the A-Rod trade,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 12/11/2017 1:45 pm : link
but to the '96 Yankees instead of the '04 Yanks. The '96 Yankees had a YOUNG core 4 and Bernie in his prime as opposed to the aging group A-Rod walked into.
Yeah this "face" stuff is a little ridiculous.  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 1:46 pm : link
Remember, ARod and Jeter's friendship ended long before they were teammates - lot of tension there that had nothing to do with who's playing short or third, or who's the "face" of the team. Stanton and Judge don't have that kind of baggage. If there are problems, Communicator-in-Chief Aaron Boone will flex his connectivity muscles.
RE: This is like making the A-Rod trade,  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13735727 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
but to the '96 Yankees instead of the '04 Yanks. The '96 Yankees had a YOUNG core 4 and Bernie in his prime as opposed to the aging group A-Rod walked into.


That's an excellent point - ARod joined a dynasty nearing its end. Stanton jumping on board right at the beginning.
RE: the salary thing is bogus  
Tesla : 12/11/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13735725 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
judge will get his turn.


Judge just also signed a big shoe deal, and I know Sanchez has a bunch of endorsements as well. I'd be they are each making a few million in endorsements already.

Plus I think once we reset the luxury tax penalties this year both guys get extended shortly thereafter.
Plus, honestly, I think Jeter was always kind of an asshole  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 1:49 pm : link
He lets more of it show in recent years, but he always struck me that way. His humility always had a fake vibe to it as I saw it. Judge on the other hand seems much more like Mo - just a truly humble and nice man.
Bite your tongue  
Kyle in NY : 12/11/2017 1:51 pm : link
talking bad about Derek Jeter!
It was impossible to turn down. They had to move Castro to make  
Victor in CT : 12/11/2017 1:52 pm : link
room for Gleyber Torres. ANd some prospects have to moved due the 40 man constraints. Doing it now indicates they are confident that Torres will be ready on opening day.

I see his point about personalities. From what I've read, Stanton is not media friendly, likes to hide in the trainers room, never played in a major markket or for a legit contender.. Questions about his durability are also legitimate. He has played 145 games or more only 3 times in 8 years. Next highest was 123

I think it also indicates that they believe some of the young starting pitchers like Sheffield and Abreu will contribute this year at some point. Guzman could be the ultimate gem for the Marlins.

I agree that it makes them a more one dimensional team. Bird is now more important than ever as a legit lefty bat. 2 lefties in the lineup (Bird and Didi) not ideal but okay. Didi alone is a problem. Bird needs to stay healthy.

If he opts out in 3 years, they have to let him go. no A-Rod type extension.

Outfield crowded. I they can get someone to take Ellsbury at half price thta would help. Otherwise they probably end up moving C. Frazier and someone else for a pitcher.
Why  
Photoguy : 12/11/2017 1:53 pm : link
you guys listen to this tub of goo amazes me.
Do people forget how bad the dh was  
nygiants16 : 12/11/2017 1:53 pm : link
In the post season? He fills a big need
RE: Plus, honestly, I think Jeter was always kind of an asshole  
Ace718 : 12/11/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13735743 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He lets more of it show in recent years, but he always struck me that way. His humility always had a fake vibe to it as I saw it. Judge on the other hand seems much more like Mo - just a truly humble and nice man.


As much as I lover Jeter, this is hard to argue against. I wouldn't say his humility was but he did come across as an asshole to A-Rod.

But look at what has happened to Jeter and A-Rod post retirement. Jeter is getting a lot more hate these days while A-Rod has turned into a loveable guy on TV. He even has a great relationship with the Yankees front office.
Nobody complained  
Dankbeerman : 12/11/2017 1:54 pm : link
about how much Elsbury was making on the bench or Arod was being paid not to play last year. They know if the play well they will get those numbers as well
RE: Do people forget how bad the dh was  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13735752 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In the post season? He fills a big need


Yeah, Torres and Stanton taking the Castro and Headley/Ellsbury at-bats next postseason is incredible to think about.
RE: RE: Judge will be pissed off?  
Milton : 12/11/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13735661 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 13735639 Keith said:


Quote:


That's not in Judge's DNA.

People are human. This is a thing. If they hire someone to work with you and pay him 10x what you're making for the same production, that can't help but be irksome. Stuff like that happened in my office. The new star gets hired away from some other company, they throw money at him, and everybody else is like "He's not doing any more than I am, WTF?" People keep working and doing their jobs but it's uncomfortable.
But Judge has known the score for years now in terms of his income and it has nothing to do with whether Stanton is making his $295M with the Yankees or the Marlins. If anything, it helps Judge's case when it does come time to negotiate a longterm deal.
Dear Lord with this Gianni comparison  
nygiants16 : 12/11/2017 1:56 pm : link
Stanton is 5 times the player Giambi is
Stanton has had some injuries  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 1:57 pm : link
But the one year he missed a bunch of games because he got drilled by a pitch to the face. Doesn't get flukier than that.
RE: Stanton has had some injuries  
Ace718 : 12/11/2017 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13735772 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But the one year he missed a bunch of games because he got drilled by a pitch to the face. Doesn't get flukier than that.

And his other big injury was breaking his wrist with bat jamming him after a swinging strike.
RE: RE: Plus, honestly, I think Jeter was always kind of an asshole  
mitch300 : 12/11/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13735756 Ace718 said:
Quote:
In comment 13735743 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


He lets more of it show in recent years, but he always struck me that way. His humility always had a fake vibe to it as I saw it. Judge on the other hand seems much more like Mo - just a truly humble and nice man.



As much as I lover Jeter, this is hard to argue against. I wouldn't say his humility was but he did come across as an asshole to A-Rod.

But look at what has happened to Jeter and A-Rod post retirement. Jeter is getting a lot more hate these days while A-Rod has turned into a loveable guy on TV. He even has a great relationship with the Yankees front office.

Jeter didn't even show up at the winter meetings. He lives 60 miles away
Some guy just called asking Mike why he's against it.  
Ace718 : 12/11/2017 2:01 pm : link
Mikes response

- What's the outfield configuration gonna be?
- How will other guys react to a guy making $295 million?
- Stanton will be front and center. He'll be the leader of Judge and Sanchez. He's not gonna sit in the background. It's his team.
- Yankees went from being loveable baby bombers to the big bad Yankees again. They will be hated in the league.
RE: Some guy just called asking Mike why he's against it.  
Greg from LI : 12/11/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13735783 Ace718 said:
Quote:
- Yankees went from being loveable baby bombers to the big bad Yankees again. They will be hated in the league.


And I fucking LOVE IT!!!!! What the hell is the point of beinga Yankees fan if they're not the big bad villain?
Stanton is so excited out there  
Ace718 : 12/11/2017 2:12 pm : link
For the press conference. Had trouble buttoning up his jersey. He's like a little kid living his dream. Love it.
Lovable baby bombers?  
Csonka : 12/11/2017 2:13 pm : link
When was that?
The same people who hate the Yankees with Stanton hated them without Stanton.

And a guy on a rookie contract is no more jealous of a great player making $30 million per year than he is of an average player making $10 million per year. Rookie contracts suck for great players, but they'll back up the truck for them when their time comes.
Any argument against this trade  
Kyle in NY : 12/11/2017 2:13 pm : link
that involves anything regarding karma (like Russo just made) or that the Yankees aren't lovable anymore holds absolutely zero weight in my mind.

You want to talk about how he'll fit in the outfield or the merits of taking on another huge contract, fine. I don't agree with it, but fine. But anything about not being likable anymore is just silly.
If the power production dips from the two big bats  
SeanLandeta : 12/11/2017 2:21 pm : link
it won't be long before their (approximately) 320 or so K's per year combined start to have an impact in the wins/losses column. That's the concern.

The sentiment part about how the team is viewed is pointless. No team cares how they are viewed by the rest of the league when it comes to signing free agents or trading to take on big contracts.
My takes:  
Stu11 : 12/11/2017 2:34 pm : link
1. You have to do the deal based on what we gave up

2. Mike's points while very arguable have some validity to them. I know numbers guys think baseball has become some kind of computer program where you enter #'s in and results pop out in wins/losses. These guys are human and you are dropping a whole new dynamic in there. Now they all seem like good guys and chances are good they embrace him and it all works out fine but its not a slam dunk.

3. The OF rotation issues will be fine, as pointed out the bigger factor is opening up 2b for Torres. Maybe they bring back the Toddfather if they can dump Headley?

4. Don't kid yourself do you think Joe Buck and the rest of the country were falling in love with the Baby Bombers?
Please they wear the Pinstripes. Do you think my Red Sox and Mets fan friends came up to me afterwards and said gosh gee I'm sorry you guys lost? My fucking Met fan neighbor hung an Altuve Jersey for a week afterwards.

It's hard to argue with the trade  
RetroJint : 12/11/2017 2:50 pm : link
Perhaps makes them too right-handed at the plate . K total between 2-5 inclusive will be breath taking . Makes Stanton's regular position DH at a comparatively young age, which I never like . That's about it, though . Maybe he and Judge can do an M&M HR race like was done in '61.

CC, si, but watch the years. Although his transformation into David Wells is complete, and Girardi isn't around anymore for 3.1 inning , 1-run hooks , he still has an athritic knee.
I could be dead wrong about this  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 3:23 pm : link
but I think the Yankees are moving on from CC. He had a terrific season in 2017, but will they bet $12 million on a repeat performance? I have my doubts. The analytics folks have him pegged as a 75-pitch guy - I wonder if they find a cheaper option or use Clint Frazier to get their hands on a younger, cost-controlled, better alternative. Apparently the Angels have had some talks with CC, so the plot thickens...
RE: Why  
bceagle05 : 12/11/2017 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13735749 Photoguy said:
Quote:
you guys listen to this tub of goo amazes me.


Very underrated post.
Judge and Sanchez know the deal.  
Section331 : 12/11/2017 4:06 pm : link
They're young players still on their first contracts. I'd be stunned if both weren't thrilled with the idea of adding the reigning NL MVP to an already potent line-up. They know their paydays are coming.
A-Rod  
Dragon : 12/11/2017 4:10 pm : link
Made much more than Jeter but no doubt who the face of the Yankees was before, during and after him. Win four of the next five WS then listen to the cry’s if any arise.
My guess on the OF rotations  
section125 : 12/11/2017 4:28 pm : link
is Gardner - Hicks - Judge - normal OF

Judge - Gardner - Stanton (Hick off or DH)

Then

Gardner - Hicks - Stanton (Judge off or DH)

Judge can move for a big man. He won't be Gardy. There are not many in MLB as good as Gardy. But I suspect that Judge is better than most people think defensively.
Judge is a tremendous athlete, and very agile for a big man.  
Victor in CT : 12/11/2017 4:31 pm : link
Best case is they find someone to take on 1/2 of Ellsbury salary and have 4 OFs Judge, Stanton, Hicks and Gardner.
I would absolutely not move Judge from RF  
DennyInDenville : 12/11/2017 4:33 pm : link
I'd DH Stanton. Days Judge DHs I play Stanton in RF.

Days Sanchez or Bird DHs I play Stanton in LF

Simple.
Btw not that Judge can't play LF  
DennyInDenville : 12/11/2017 4:34 pm : link
He's just elite in RF and I like him in that spot.
Also we absolutely will carry 5 OFers imo  
DennyInDenville : 12/11/2017 4:35 pm : link
Stanton
Judge
Gardy
Hicks
Frazier

Stanton and Judge will DH many days. Gardy and Hicks both require regular rest days.

Frazier sees time even as a 5th OFer
RE: Btw not that Judge can't play LF  
Victor in CT : 12/11/2017 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13736205 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
He's just elite in RF and I like him in that spot.


agree.
Hope they trade Gardner and Headley  
xman : 12/11/2017 4:48 pm : link
That shaves 25 million off the payroll. Impossible to dump Els salary but he can be of valuable as a backup CF.
RE: Hope they trade Gardner and Headley  
B in ALB : 12/11/2017 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13736226 xman said:
Quote:
That shaves 25 million off the payroll. Impossible to dump Els salary but he can be of valuable as a backup CF.


Wrong. Ellsbury can be traded at 40 cents on the dollar along with a prospect. You keep Gardy and try to trade headley too.
Trading Els by throwing in 30 or 40 mil  
xman : 12/11/2017 6:39 pm : link
is a tough decision. I'd rather Frazier starts in LF and Els backs up CF and Gardner is moved.
Just posted the same on  
section125 : 12/11/2017 7:13 pm : link
the MLB Winter Meeting thread -

Mark Teixeira says Stanton is a better OF than Judge....Judge was a finalist for RF Gold Glove, no?
RE: Trading Els by throwing in 30 or 40 mil  
section125 : 12/11/2017 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13736337 xman said:
Quote:
is a tough decision. I'd rather Frazier starts in LF and Els backs up CF and Gardner is moved.


Gardner is a better CF/OF than Ellsbury and unquestionably Frazier.

If you are saying just move somebody, I think you got this wrong.
Gardner is done after this year  
xman : 12/11/2017 7:52 pm : link
so trade him and save 11 million now and open a spot for the kid or let it be and lose him for zilch next year. Not that you get much for Gardner but unloading him gives flexibility in signing another FA. I value the red head and don't believe Els is tradeable unless you pay the freight
Umm as a fan  
mdthedream : 12/11/2017 8:31 pm : link
I will always like Judge better than Stanton he is homegrown talent.
RE: Gardner is done after this year  
section125 : 12/11/2017 8:31 pm : link
In comment 13736408 xman said:
Quote:
so trade him and save 11 million now and open a spot for the kid or let it be and lose him for zilch next year. Not that you get much for Gardner but unloading him gives flexibility in signing another FA. I value the red head and don't believe Els is tradeable unless you pay the freight


I'd do whatever to get rid of Ellsbury. Probably only a 20% chance to do it. I agree Gardner is eminently more tradeable because of ability and value. But Gardner is the defacto Captain. Wouldn't be surprised if Frazier was the one to be traded because he'll have better value than both Gardner and Ellsbury and he is more likely to get better value in return. Cashman will likely do the best he can to reduce the payroll without hurting the team.
How good could Frazier  
xman : 12/11/2017 9:16 pm : link
become? Is he a keeper?
Although Yankee Stadium is a hitters' park  
GeofromNJ : 12/12/2017 2:46 pm : link
it's a mistake to think that Stanton is good for 45-55 home runs every year. Prior to last year, his full season average totals were 35 home runs and 85 RBIs. If his years with the Yankees proved to be comparable to pre 2017, Judge and Sanchez will be pissed because Stanton is being overpaid. If not for the fact that Stanton provides a reliable DH, this trade would make no sense (unless one assumes that Judge is an injury prone as Stanton).
Stanton  
Marty866b : 12/12/2017 6:16 pm : link
Is a good outfielder just that I don't see him any other position then right field.
One of the under-discussed elements of this...  
Dan in the Springs : 12/12/2017 6:49 pm : link
might be the impact his bat has on the quality of pitches seen by those in front of him. Put Bird, Judge, Sanchez and Stanton 2-5 and you might see Judge's pitches out of the strike zone go down.

Anyone agree with that analysis?
RE: One of the under-discussed elements of this...  
bigbluehoya : 12/12/2017 7:30 pm : link
In comment 13738097 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
might be the impact his bat has on the quality of pitches seen by those in front of him. Put Bird, Judge, Sanchez and Stanton 2-5 and you might see Judge's pitches out of the strike zone go down.

Anyone agree with that analysis?


Difficult to project what direct impact it has on any singular other player, but I’d agree with the general premise that when you have an extra power bat seeing a ton of pitches, it incentivizes the pitcher to attack the strike zone and try to be more efficient elsewhere in the lineup.
RE: Plus, honestly, I think Jeter was always kind of an asshole  
Mark C : 12/12/2017 8:47 pm : link
In comment 13735743 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He lets more of it show in recent years, but he always struck me that way. His humility always had a fake vibe to it as I saw it. Judge on the other hand seems much more like Mo - just a truly humble and nice man.


Never actually said that out loud myself about Jeter (I, like you I'm sure, have a lot of respect for Jeter), but you're not wrong...
RE: Although Yankee Stadium is a hitters' park  
Mark C : 12/12/2017 8:55 pm : link
In comment 13737675 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
it's a mistake to think that Stanton is good for 45-55 home runs every year. Prior to last year, his full season average totals were 35 home runs and 85 RBIs. If his years with the Yankees proved to be comparable to pre 2017, Judge and Sanchez will be pissed because Stanton is being overpaid. If not for the fact that Stanton provides a reliable DH, this trade would make no sense (unless one assumes that Judge is an injury prone as Stanton).


Yeah, but don't forget, in his entire career to this point, Stanton has virtually never played any meaningful games after August. He's now a big dog on a team that's basically a lock to do so. And with this lineup, I'll bet you two months of his salary that he'll end up with more than 85 RBIs.
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