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NFT: Winter Meetings Day 2

DaddyM89 : 12/12/2017 1:48 am
Pretty slow first day of meetings. Expecting things to heat up today. Have a feeling theres a blockbuster trade today. Machado anyone?
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Wow  
DanMetroMan : 12/12/2017 4:42 pm : link
he's not even willing to lie anymore.

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More Sandy Alderson on Mets' payroll: "I wouldn't go so far as to say, 'Hey, if we do well, then we invest more.' That's not an equation that I've been given."
We need to cross our fingers  
Metnut : 12/12/2017 4:45 pm : link
and hope that Callaway can get Harvey and Matz back to their peak. AND hope that Thor and DeGrom stay healthy the whole year. AND hope that Familia recovers from his surgery and doesn't regress. AND hope that Cespedes can stay healthy for once. AND hope that Conforto recovered from his surgery and won't miss a lot of time. AND hope that Smith can look like an MLB player. AND.... well you guys see where I'm going.

Contending in 2018 isn't impossible. Just need a ton of things to "go right"
.  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/12/2017 6:09 pm : link
Source says Red Sox 90-10 in their pursuit of J.D. Martinez vs. other(s). Makes sense: hes the best free agent bat available in terms of production, no qualifying offer.
MLB Network  
MookGiants : 12/12/2017 6:20 pm : link
and Tom Verducci just had a segment on Martinez and Verducci thinks he's a poor fit in Boston. Most of his home runs go to right field
According to buster  
nygiants16 : 12/12/2017 6:29 pm : link
Yankees have reached out to Orioles about Michael, Orioles are listening
RE: According to buster  
nygiants16 : 12/12/2017 6:29 pm : link
In comment 13738070 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Yankees have reached out to Orioles about Michael, Orioles are listening


Machado
RE: RE: According to buster  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/12/2017 6:30 pm : link
In comment 13738071 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13738070 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Yankees have reached out to Orioles about Michael, Orioles are listening



Machado


So much for not trading him to NY lol
Dan  
Shecky : 12/12/2017 6:31 pm : link
Dont believe a word you hear this entire offseason. Harvey was floated to get someone to overpay. That is literally the first and only thing that came out of the front office all off season. Coincidence? And today the second thing to come direct is hey, were pulling him from the trade market.

Literally dont believe anything that comes from the FO this offseason. And take anything leaked from other teams/reporters with a grain of salt because it may or may not be fully accurate.
Not sure if Metsies FO  
brunswick : 12/12/2017 6:40 pm : link
Will ever change but only way it might is if a few players start making comments because this has become such a joke. They absolutely have no intention of putting the best product on the field.
What's so bizarre about the Mets is that Steinbrenner showed  
yatqb : 12/12/2017 6:47 pm : link
hoe a winning team that spends money on talent can eventually print money in NY. Why not invest in their team?
rumor Shaw  
Rory : 12/12/2017 7:44 pm : link
has an agreement in place. uh oh
Shaw signed.  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 8:31 pm : link
Addison Reed to Phillies. Relievers flying off the board. Mets now interested in Fernando Rodney. He actually did have a great year in 2017 but he's 40!
Reed and Shaw's deals are expected to be identical  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 8:32 pm : link
3 years deals, 9 mil AAV.
This is where they look like a joke. They gave Blevins 2 yrs / 7M aav  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 8:36 pm : link
did they not expect younger, better, players to get slightly more money and 1 more year? What part of that was an unexpected inferno? Seriously MLBTR and the writers are apparently better at predicting the market than the Mets are.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/12/2017 8:40 pm : link
Its cool, guys - we collected a bunch of shitty minor league pitchers with middle relief CEILINGS at the deadline last year.

We are locked, stocked, and loaded!
Turns out the Phillies signed Hunter and it's only for 2 years  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 8:41 pm : link
someone threw some ice on the inferno but not enough for the Mets.
Alderson will come out again tomorrow  
moespree : 12/12/2017 8:46 pm : link
With more douchebag "jokes" about not worrying about the payroll. I'm convinced part of the problem is they have a GM who moves like it's still 1989. Teams have been successful on limited payroll, it's not an impossible thing, you just need to get creative. But Alderson is about as creative as roadkill.
Yup. Scratch Reed to the Phillies  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 8:48 pm : link
Hunter signs with the Phillies for 2. That might actually piss me off more. Thought he would have been a great value sign.
.  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 8:51 pm : link
@JonHeyman: Mets are weighing kinsler, kipnis, Harrison, Hernandez (tho Hernandez would take a haul) for 2B. Castro not in mix.
at this point I think Sandy Alderson  
pjcas18 : 12/12/2017 8:51 pm : link
is really trolling Mets fans and very possibly even Mets ownership.

He was asked about Stanton and his response:

Quote:
With Brandon Nimmo in right field? We just didnt feel we had a need there, Alderson said in his tongue-in-cheek way, then quickly praised Nimmo.


even joking, that's an awful answer for a variety of reasons, least of all is how the F should Nimmo feel about being the butt of the GM's jokes.
Seems like the most consistent wants are  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 8:52 pm : link
1.) Jay Bruce

2.) second baseman either by trade or F/A

3.) Setup type reliever.

That's actually pretty close to what I want along with a Dickey type.

Wont be a thrilling offseason but it will certainly plug some holes.
why dont they  
spike : 12/12/2017 8:53 pm : link
let Flores be the opening day startin g 2B?
I'd trust Kipnis bouncing back  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 8:54 pm : link
more than I would Kinsler who will be 36.
RE: Shaw signed.  
spike : 12/12/2017 8:54 pm : link
In comment 13738233 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Addison Reed to Phillies. Relievers flying off the board. Mets now interested in Fernando Rodney. He actually did have a great year in 2017 but he's 40!


Mets FO is a dumpster fire
RE: at this point I think Sandy Alderson  
arcarsenal : 12/12/2017 8:55 pm : link
In comment 13738263 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is really trolling Mets fans and very possibly even Mets ownership.

He was asked about Stanton and his response:



Quote:


With Brandon Nimmo in right field? We just didnt feel we had a need there, Alderson said in his tongue-in-cheek way, then quickly praised Nimmo.



even joking, that's an awful answer for a variety of reasons, least of all is how the F should Nimmo feel about being the butt of the GM's jokes.


Yeah, this bothers me.

It's a slap in the face to the fans, and it's even shittier for Nimmo.
his jokes would be fine if they actually won or attempted to  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 8:56 pm : link
by acquiring players or doing creative things on a budget. The way they sit on their hands and do the bare minimum year after year is just miserable. That's the problem more than the gallows humor.
aaaaand right on cue. lol  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 8:57 pm : link
@martinonyc: Keep your eye on Ian Kinsler for Mets. Still lots of options but they've gotten pretty deep in talks there even before meetings
I like the Kinsler idea a lot - was the 2nd best defensive 2B last yr  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 9:06 pm : link
according to most of the metrics on FG. Has some pop, draws walks, hard to strike out. Was one of the handful of top 2B around 6 WAR just 1 season ago, the only big change year to year was BABIP.
He was but 2B has basically become an offensive position  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:09 pm : link
around baseball. There arent a lot of standout defenders to choose from these days. Even though he finished second in defense, he showed massive decline, understandable at 36.

I just dont like his bat and we need offense from somewhere. I'd probably be ok with Kinsler as a second piece if you told me we were getting proven offense from somewhere else.
.  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:11 pm : link

@Ring786
Source says Mets talks intense about Ian Kinsler.
8:12 PM - Dec 12, 2017
RE: He was but 2B has basically become an offensive position  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 9:18 pm : link
In comment 13738295 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
around baseball. There arent a lot of standout defenders to choose from these days. Even though he finished second in defense, he showed massive decline, understandable at 36.

I just dont like his bat and we need offense from somewhere. I'd probably be ok with Kinsler as a second piece if you told me we were getting proven offense from somewhere else.


he only declined on singles. His XBH and steals were the same. He walked more and struck out less. He had 40 less singles last year and his lowest BABIP ever.
I fucking hate the Mets.  
PhiPsi125 : 12/12/2017 9:22 pm : link
You want a pinpoint guide on how to torpedo a promising young team that already made the World Series? Just look to the Mets.

Fuck Alderson, fuck Terry, fuck the Wilpons, fuck the Mets.
RE: RE: He was but 2B has basically become an offensive position  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:24 pm : link
In comment 13738306 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13738295 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


around baseball. There arent a lot of standout defenders to choose from these days. Even though he finished second in defense, he showed massive decline, understandable at 36.

I just dont like his bat and we need offense from somewhere. I'd probably be ok with Kinsler as a second piece if you told me we were getting proven offense from somewhere else.



he only declined on singles. His XBH and steals were the same. He walked more and struck out less. He had 40 less singles last year and his lowest BABIP ever.


Yeah I agree with you there. His offense wasn't that far off. The decline I was citing was with his defense. He went from "out of this world" to "above average" and a lot of his WAR was tied to his D previously. His offense? He's a career wRC+ 110 guy. That's ok. Neil Walker was better. I'm just saying we need more offense than that if we are going to contend. He cant be the "guy" or Im going to be pissed.
Callaway on how he intends  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:25 pm : link
to shake up the pen.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: He was but 2B has basically become an offensive position  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 9:27 pm : link
In comment 13738322 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13738306 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13738295 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


around baseball. There arent a lot of standout defenders to choose from these days. Even though he finished second in defense, he showed massive decline, understandable at 36.

I just dont like his bat and we need offense from somewhere. I'd probably be ok with Kinsler as a second piece if you told me we were getting proven offense from somewhere else.



he only declined on singles. His XBH and steals were the same. He walked more and struck out less. He had 40 less singles last year and his lowest BABIP ever.



Yeah I agree with you there. His offense wasn't that far off. The decline I was citing was with his defense. He went from "out of this world" to "above average" and a lot of his WAR was tied to his D previously. His offense? He's a career wRC+ 110 guy. That's ok. Neil Walker was better. I'm just saying we need more offense than that if we are going to contend. He cant be the "guy" or Im going to be pissed.


He was still 2nd best defensive 2B in baseball last year. His UZR was same as past 3 years, also made the same number of out of zone plays. Stole the same number of bases. That doesn't sound like a guy whose athleticism is falling off much.
I could probably live with  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:28 pm : link
Rosario
Conforto
Cespedes
Bruce
Kinsler
Smith
Cabrera
TDA/Plaw

Its certainly not thrilling. (Even scarier without those additions)

Would love to see a play for Cozart (who seemingly has no interest) and maybe Ozuna. Now that would get me excited for the lineup.
Carig says they are still in on Reed  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 9:32 pm : link
this is a rare moment where we are in total agreement ZG, i'd take that lineup, though I'd prefer some others with more positional flexibility to Bruce (like Ozuna).
.  
arcarsenal : 12/12/2017 9:33 pm : link
Ozuna is a guy I'd get excited about. Bringing back Jay Bruce is exactly what I expect instead. Same type of status quo bullshit as always.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He was but 2B has basically become an offensive position  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:33 pm : link
In comment 13738327 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13738322 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13738306 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13738295 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


around baseball. There arent a lot of standout defenders to choose from these days. Even though he finished second in defense, he showed massive decline, understandable at 36.

I just dont like his bat and we need offense from somewhere. I'd probably be ok with Kinsler as a second piece if you told me we were getting proven offense from somewhere else.



he only declined on singles. His XBH and steals were the same. He walked more and struck out less. He had 40 less singles last year and his lowest BABIP ever.



Yeah I agree with you there. His offense wasn't that far off. The decline I was citing was with his defense. He went from "out of this world" to "above average" and a lot of his WAR was tied to his D previously. His offense? He's a career wRC+ 110 guy. That's ok. Neil Walker was better. I'm just saying we need more offense than that if we are going to contend. He cant be the "guy" or Im going to be pissed.



He was still 2nd best defensive 2B in baseball last year. His UZR was same as past 3 years, also made the same number of out of zone plays. Stole the same number of bases. That doesn't sound like a guy whose athleticism is falling off much.


His UZR dropped more than 25% from 8.5 to 6.1. His DRS went from 20, 19, 12, to 6 over the last four years. Im not saying he's a bad defender yet or anything. He's still good. It's ok to say he's declining. He's old. He's the same age as Granderson. He's the same age as Cuddyer was when we got him. At best, he's what a 2 WAR player next year, gives us "ok" offense and we shopping again next year. I just dont think he's a great option. There are many 2B candidates out there.
RE: Carig says they are still in on Reed  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:34 pm : link
In comment 13738335 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
this is a rare moment where we are in total agreement ZG, i'd take that lineup, though I'd prefer some others with more positional flexibility to Bruce (like Ozuna).


Ive been agreeing with you a lot all offseason actually. :)
The Mets could do worse than that lineup but Im betting  
PhiPsi125 : 12/12/2017 9:35 pm : link
we dont even get that. The Mets offseason is like kissing your sister. Nothing like walking into the season already playing for second place.
RE: The Mets could do worse than that lineup but Im betting  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:42 pm : link
In comment 13738345 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
we dont even get that. The Mets offseason is like kissing your sister. Nothing like walking into the season already playing for second place.


It certainly feels that way but Im going to hold off until I see the final product before I go nuts.
I was looking at his UZR/150  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 9:43 pm : link
which has been steady the last 3 years ('15 - 6.7, '16 - 7.5, '17 - 7.5). His UZRs for those 3 years are similar also, with last year being the outlier if anything.('15 - 6.3, '16 - 8.5, '17- 6.1).

The reality though is none of those numbers mean much. There's no score that stipulates he will get to a ball or won't. The bottom line is they are similar and he is still 1 of the best defensive 2B in baseball.
.  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:46 pm : link
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Well, the Mets are still in on Addison Reed, so theres that.
Unreal  
Rflairr : 12/12/2017 9:48 pm : link
The Mets wouldnt outbid the friggin Rockies for Shaw? Heyman saying he only got 3 mill a season. Embarrassing
RE: Unreal  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:50 pm : link
In comment 13738364 Rflairr said:
Quote:
The Mets wouldnt outbid the friggin Rockies for Shaw? Heyman saying he only got 3 mill a season. Embarrassing


He's getting a lot more than that. Twitter is mostly saying he got around 9 million a year. 3 years.
RE: RE: Unreal  
Rflairr : 12/12/2017 9:51 pm : link
In comment 13738368 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13738364 Rflairr said:


Quote:


The Mets wouldnt outbid the friggin Rockies for Shaw? Heyman saying he only got 3 mill a season. Embarrassing



He's getting a lot more than that. Twitter is mostly saying he got around 9 million a year. 3 years.


Even if he got that. That should be an easy beat for this team. They just dropped over 50 mill off the payroll
I really dont want to see Reed back here  
Rflairr : 12/12/2017 9:53 pm : link
Shaw was the perfect setup guy
I trust Reed more than Shaw personally  
Eric on Li : 12/12/2017 9:54 pm : link
but would have been happier with both. Still ok if they add Jake McGee. Less so with Joe Smith but he's better than nothing.
RE: RE: RE: Unreal  
ZGiants98 : 12/12/2017 9:56 pm : link
In comment 13738371 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 13738368 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13738364 Rflairr said:


Quote:


The Mets wouldnt outbid the friggin Rockies for Shaw? Heyman saying he only got 3 mill a season. Embarrassing



He's getting a lot more than that. Twitter is mostly saying he got around 9 million a year. 3 years.



Even if he got that. That should be an easy beat for this team. They just dropped over 50 mill off the payroll


They really didnt. After arbitration, the payroll is around 122 million right now. They are about 28 million under where they were at the start of 2017.
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