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Twenty years of mediocre drafting ...

NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 9:37 am
It is time for a complete change in front office philosophy. It's easy to blame Jerry Reese for the recent failings of the team and quite frankly it is well deserved, just as he earned his former position as GM of the NY Giants and the superbowl rings he also earned the right to be fired for his poor performance over the last few years.
However in my opinion this goes far deeper and further back than the last six seasons, poor drafting has been an issue with this team all the way back to George Young's last few seasons. It's been said on here multiple times that "Jerry Reese can't draft a impact LB to save his life", well when was the last time any Giant GM has drafted a impact LB? Brandon Short? Dhani Jones? Scott Galyon? Pete Monty? Ryan Phillips? Stop me when I get to the one that was a true impact player or that even made a play that sticks in your mind.
What about offensive lineman? Of course we know about Chris Snee and David Diehl, Luke Petitgout was OK, Mike Rosenthal he started for a while but other than those guys how many stud offensive lineman have been drafted over the last 20 or so years? Anyone remember Toby Myles? A fifth round pick I don't think he ever got a jersey on game day. What about Ben Fricke? I can go on and on naming names of guys we drafted that were just awful players, this did not just start over the last 6-10 years this goes back a long way. Third round pick on Ron Dixon, Third round pick on Brian Alford 2nd round pick on Tim Carter. It is time for a complete house cleaning and get rid of everyone that has any ties to the previous front office and do not bring anyone back that had ties to the previous front office. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for George Young, Ernie Accorsi and Jerry Reese but it is time to move on from that tree and that way of NFL management.The old Giant way is not working time, to create a "New" Giants way.
Twenty-plus years of mediocre drafting - ( New Window )
New OL  
Tony in Tampa : 12/12/2017 10:17 am : link
For me one of the most interesting and challenging things for this new regime will be how they go about rebuilding this OL.

Not just what do they do with a: Flowers, Pugh, Jones or Wheeler, but what kind of philosophy do they have on a modern OL.

Do you go lighter and athletic for a continued WC system or more heavy interior road graders to focus on a dominant run attack?

How do you find premium NFL O linemen when the colleges aren’t really producing them anymore?
How do you acquire them as FA without breaking the bank for a team that will have limit cap room?

And yes, will these guys be better at drafting-particularly in the mid-rounds-than the Giants have been the last several years?
Ummm  
jvm52106 : 12/12/2017 10:28 am : link
not sure I agree on 20 years of poor drafting.. What I will say is the last 7-8 years have had mixed to poor results.

2016: (still early on this draft)

Apple right now is playing and behaving his way right off the team
Sheppard looks like a keeper.
Goodson, Perkins, Adams and Thompson are just jags.. Goodson cannot stay healthy.

2015:

Flowers and Collins only ones there and Flowers was a huge let down from his draft slot. Collins has been up and down. 15 not great, 16 great and 17 injuries may be the cause but he is more middle of 15/16 which is just ok. Hart is on the team but the is more an indication of how shitty we have done getting Olinemen than the quality of the draft selection.

2014:

not bad- Beckham, Richburg, Bromley and Kennard but outside of OBJ, no real studs here and Richburg is most likely gone this offseason

2013:

Pugh and Hankins but Pugh is ok to slightly above average (but injured a lot) and Hankins was good but Gmen let him leave. The rest was a shit show of bad picks.

So just going back to 2013 you see a LOT of misses here. Guys who have been solid have also been injured some and the best picks- OBJ, Collins and Sheppard are guys who can make plays and impacts but who cannot take over games. The glaring lack of LB talent and DE talent over the last 5 years is very noticeable.

My biggest issue about WR's being your best player and highest paid player is that unlike baseball they are 80-90% reliant on others to be able to be the best player. If your Oline sucks, your WR will have a hard time making an impact. If your QB is not great, your WR will have a hard time making as big an impact...

WR's, RB's etc can be had in mid to late rounds. Game changers at LB, DE and game controllers OT and OG are where premium picks need to be made.. QB is of course a HIGH pick target if the talent is there and there is a need.

One last thing with the "drafting" success or failure. It isn't always the player selected but the skills of the player selected and the scheme you will play. Flowers is a big example of a poorly matched skill set to scheme. If we were a power running football team he would be perfect at LT (ok, not perfect but a much better match). Instead we are a finesse type team with a weird WC passing game. Flowers is asked to be more nimble than he is and more technical in nature than he was listed as being in all the scouting reports. Poor match.

Andre Williams RB was another prime example, along with David Wilson. In an offense that called for pass blocking and pass receiving you draft5 two backs that were not great at one or both of those items. Wilson, not a blocker at all, playing for a coach who notoriously would not play backs who could not pass block and who was reluctant to play rookies anyway, was an absolute miss match in skills vs scheme. Regardless of the neck injury, Wilson was never going to be an every down player or even 50%... Williams was a guy with hands of stone and poor clocking skills. Again, another poorly matched player to scheme pick.


The 49ers turned the corner when they drafted Mike Iupati  
Earl the goat : 12/12/2017 10:33 am : link
Trade down a few slots. Draft Quenton Nelson and pick up a couple of extra draft picks. Build the team
Eli has another year in him. Try and groom Webb cause you really don’t know what you have in this guy and there’s no guarantee any of the college QBs are better than him
32 NFL Teams.  
x meadowlander : 12/12/2017 10:41 am : link
If you're averaging more than one Super Bowl win every 32 years, you're ahead of the curve.

9 Playoff Teams, 3 NFC Championships, 2 Super Bowl Wins in 20 years? WELL ahead of the curve.

Nearly HALF of the NY Giant seasons over the last 20 years have produced playoff runs.


THAT comes from poor drafting?
RE: Ummm  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13736993 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
not sure I agree on 20 years of poor drafting.. What I will say is the last 7-8 years have had mixed to poor results.

2016: (still early on this draft)

Apple right now is playing and behaving his way right off the team
Sheppard looks like a keeper.
Goodson, Perkins, Adams and Thompson are just jags.. Goodson cannot stay healthy.

2015:

Flowers and Collins only ones there and Flowers was a huge let down from his draft slot. Collins has been up and down. 15 not great, 16 great and 17 injuries may be the cause but he is more middle of 15/16 which is just ok. Hart is on the team but the is more an indication of how shitty we have done getting Olinemen than the quality of the draft selection.

2014:

not bad- Beckham, Richburg, Bromley and Kennard but outside of OBJ, no real studs here and Richburg is most likely gone this offseason

2013:

Pugh and Hankins but Pugh is ok to slightly above average (but injured a lot) and Hankins was good but Gmen let him leave. The rest was a shit show of bad picks.

So just going back to 2013 you see a LOT of misses here. Guys who have been solid have also been injured some and the best picks- OBJ, Collins and Sheppard are guys who can make plays and impacts but who cannot take over games. The glaring lack of LB talent and DE talent over the last 5 years is very noticeable.

My biggest issue about WR's being your best player and highest paid player is that unlike baseball they are 80-90% reliant on others to be able to be the best player. If your Oline sucks, your WR will have a hard time making an impact. If your QB is not great, your WR will have a hard time making as big an impact...

WR's, RB's etc can be had in mid to late rounds. Game changers at LB, DE and game controllers OT and OG are where premium picks need to be made.. QB is of course a HIGH pick target if the talent is there and there is a need.

One last thing with the "drafting" success or failure. It isn't always the player selected but the skills of the player selected and the scheme you will play. Flowers is a big example of a poorly matched skill set to scheme. If we were a power running football team he would be perfect at LT (ok, not perfect but a much better match). Instead we are a finesse type team with a weird WC passing game. Flowers is asked to be more nimble than he is and more technical in nature than he was listed as being in all the scouting reports. Poor match.

Andre Williams RB was another prime example, along with David Wilson. In an offense that called for pass blocking and pass receiving you draft5 two backs that were not great at one or both of those items. Wilson, not a blocker at all, playing for a coach who notoriously would not play backs who could not pass block and who was reluctant to play rookies anyway, was an absolute miss match in skills vs scheme. Regardless of the neck injury, Wilson was never going to be an every down player or even 50%... Williams was a guy with hands of stone and poor clocking skills. Again, another poorly matched player to scheme pick.



Yes there have been some good drafts here and there over the last 20 or so years but there have been more bad than good ones and too many huge misses on players in the 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th rounds. Tim Carter ,Brian Alford, Ramses Barden, Marvin Austin, Ron Dixon, Toby Myles. We can go on and on...the Giants have probably produced more PE teachers over the last 20 years than any team in the NFL.
15 teams have won the Super Bowl over the last 32 years...  
x meadowlander : 12/12/2017 10:46 am : link
...Giants have appeared in 5 of those, winning 4.

WELL ahead of the curve.

Be careful what you wish for. 4 NFL Teams have yet to win the big show even ONCE.

RE: 32 NFL Teams.  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13737022 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
If you're averaging more than one Super Bowl win every 32 years, you're ahead of the curve.

9 Playoff Teams, 3 NFC Championships, 2 Super Bowl Wins in 20 years? WELL ahead of the curve.

Nearly HALF of the NY Giant seasons over the last 20 years have produced playoff runs.


THAT comes from poor drafting?


Agreed there is no denying the success the team has had but this team has had some pretty God-awful lows over that time frame as well. And let's be honest on each of the teams that has had success there were quite a few free agents that played a huge part in that success.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/12/2017 10:49 am : link
let's name the busts because that defines poor drafting, right??

What about these failed players??
- Michael Strahan
- Sean O'Hara
- David Diehl
- Tiki Barber
- Brandon Jacobs
- Ahmad Bradshaw
- Hakeem Nicks
- Steve Smith
- Mario Manningham
- Beckham
- Eli
- Shockey
- Collins
- Thomas
- Phillips
- JPP
- Hankins
- Cofield
- Joseph
- DeOssie
- Webster
- Tuck
- Snee

There's a heck of a lot of talent that has come from the drafts. Making blanket statements that 20 years has produced sucky results from the past few years is a huge illogical stretch.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/12/2017 11:00 am : link
take O'Hara off the list and add Osi, Will Allen and Cornelius Griffin
RE: The 49ers turned the corner when they drafted Mike Iupati  
NYG007 : 12/12/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13737003 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Trade down a few slots. Draft Quenton Nelson and pick up a couple of extra draft picks. Build the team
Eli has another year in him. Try and groom Webb cause you really don’t know what you have in this guy and there’s no guarantee any of the college QBs are better than him


I am praying the new GM doesn't make one more last year run with Eli at the helm. I love Eli, but its beyond time to move on. He misses wide open guys time and time again. Eli should not be on our roster in 2018. Neither should 3/4 of the lineman, scouts, Mark Ross and several veteran fill in players like Casillas who just cant stay on the field. This team needs a youth injected and rebuild. I am ok with signing a few journeyman lineman if they are available, 30 yrs old or below to hold the fort down until young rookies develop (that we hopefully draft in April).
RE: LOL..  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13737048 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
let's name the busts because that defines poor drafting, right??

What about these failed players??
- Michael Strahan
- Sean O'Hara
- David Diehl
- Tiki Barber
- Brandon Jacobs
- Ahmad Bradshaw
- Hakeem Nicks
- Steve Smith
- Mario Manningham
- Beckham
- Eli
- Shockey
- Collins
- Thomas
- Phillips
- JPP
- Hankins
- Cofield
- Joseph
- DeOssie
- Webster
- Tuck
- Snee

There's a heck of a lot of talent that has come from the drafts. Making blanket statements that 20 years has produced sucky results from the past few years is a huge illogical stretch.


I agree there have been some really good players drafted there is no denying that.FYI Shaun O'Hara was not a draft pick and Strahan was a little before the time I am specifically speaking of but you do make a good point
20 years? How did they win 2 SBs with 13 years of bad drafting  
Victor in CT : 12/12/2017 11:46 am : link
leading up to it?

7 years of bad drafting? Definitely.
You lost me with your title  
MetsAreBack : 12/12/2017 11:58 am : link
two superbowls and playoffs in half the seasons but "bad drafting"

OK then, some people will just never be happy.
Yet  
gmen9892 : 12/12/2017 12:08 pm : link
The Giants have been to the playoffs 9 of the last 20 years and have been to 3 Super Bowls (winning 2 of them). If they are that bad at drafting over the course of 20 years, then they must be AMAZING at picking the right free agents.

Lets call it what it is, they have had some bad drafts and some good drafts, mixed in with a TON of injuries to a lot of big name guys. In summation, they are pretty much like EVERY other NFL team over the past 20 years (outside of the Pats).
I guess I did  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 12:09 pm : link
not do a good job of making my point. Of course there have been good players drafted no one will deny that but there have been far too many guys that have washed out of the league after one contract that is the reason we have not had any sustained success. This team needs a complete overhaul in drafting philosophy.
RE: Yet  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13737317 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
The Giants have been to the playoffs 9 of the last 20 years and have been to 3 Super Bowls (winning 2 of them). If they are that bad at drafting over the course of 20 years, then they must be AMAZING at picking the right free agents.

Lets call it what it is, they have had some bad drafts and some good drafts, mixed in with a TON of injuries to a lot of big name guys. In summation, they are pretty much like EVERY other NFL team over the past 20 years (outside of the Pats).


How many bad seasons have the Steelers had in the last 20? How about the Packers?
RE: Yet  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13737317 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
The Giants have been to the playoffs 9 of the last 20 years and have been to 3 Super Bowls (winning 2 of them). If they are that bad at drafting over the course of 20 years, then they must be AMAZING at picking the right free agents.

Lets call it what it is, they have had some bad drafts and some good drafts, mixed in with a TON of injuries to a lot of big name guys. In summation, they are pretty much like EVERY other NFL team over the past 20 years (outside of the Pats).


And to your point look at the free agents that played huge roles in the last 2 SB's Plax ,Mackenzie, Pierce, Madison, Ohara, Boley, Mitchell ect.
RE: And..  
clatterbuck : 12/12/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13737070 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
take O'Hara off the list and add Osi, Will Allen and Cornelius Griffin


It's early but you could probably add Shepard, Engram, and Tomlinson.
RE: RE: And..  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13737339 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 13737070 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


take O'Hara off the list and add Osi, Will Allen and Cornelius Griffin



It's early but you could probably add Shepard, Engram, and Tomlinson.


I always thought Will Peterson was the better of the Wills
I just think  
Doomster : 12/12/2017 12:20 pm : link
your time frame was a little off....
Restart this thread...  
TheEvilLurker : 12/12/2017 12:41 pm : link
20 years is the wrong time frame, but last 5 or so years, yeah that's some bad drafting.
Off by 15 years. No big deal.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/12/2017 12:46 pm : link
.
The Steelers have drafted very well for the past 20 years. True.  
MetsAreBack : 12/12/2017 12:51 pm : link
Packers have had two HoF QBs on their roster for 20 years - when they've missed time (and Favre never did), they struggled. But you can include them too, i guess. I mean even the year they went 15-1 (and we beat them in the playoffs), they had a historically bad defense but OK.

Even if we give you Steelers... Pats... Packers...

That puts us in the top 4 over the past 20 years out of 32 teams. That's "mediocre" ?
I honestly don't understand  
AcesUp : 12/12/2017 1:00 pm : link
How you can look at this franchises achievements in the last 20 years and make this thread. Then continue to defend it. Wins/losses, playoff appearance, super bowl appearances and champmsionships...none of those classify as mediocre. I think you need a little perspective, do you have friends or families that are Jets fans? You don't even have to look that far to gain some perspective.
*family  
AcesUp : 12/12/2017 1:00 pm : link
.
The last 5 years have been fan TORTURE.  
x meadowlander : 12/12/2017 2:18 pm : link
Watching Eli rot in his golden years absolutely sucks.

Franchise QB's do not grow on trees.
20 years of poor drafting  
Modus Operandi : 12/12/2017 2:29 pm : link
And you've apparently been asleep through half of them.
Might be better labeled  
LauderdaleMatty : 12/12/2017 2:44 pm : link
20 years of poor OL drafting. And that's the issue. When you draft Wilson over Glenn. Sintim over Max Unger etc is what it is.

The Giants SUCK at drafting OL when they finally get around to it. How about anyone who was there when they drafted Marvin Austin, Jay Bromley or Damontre Moore. They suck at it and don't invest enough picks early in the last 10-12 years.

And yes. Reese's little spurt of forced picks got us the HOF trio of Pugh Flowers and Richberg. Let's not let a 3 years of panicky picks let him off the OL hook Guys who many not have had to be grabbed if Reese didn't pass on OL So often
RE: Might be better labeled  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13737673 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
20 years of poor OL drafting. And that's the issue. When you draft Wilson over Glenn. Sintim over Max Unger etc is what it is.

The Giants SUCK at drafting OL when they finally get around to it. How about anyone who was there when they drafted Marvin Austin, Jay Bromley or Damontre Moore. They suck at it and don't invest enough picks early in the last 10-12 years.



And yes. Reese's little spurt of forced picks got us the HOF trio of Pugh Flowers and Richberg. Let's not let a 3 years of panicky picks let him off the OL hook Guys who many not have had to be grabbed if Reese didn't pass on OL So often


How about Shaun William over Alan Faneca? What about any LB drafted in the last 20 years? I stand by what I said and it does not take away from all the team has accomplished.
RE: RE: Might be better labeled  
LauderdaleMatty : 12/12/2017 3:22 pm : link
In comment 13737727 NYBEN1963 said:
Quote:
In comment 13737673 LauderdaleMatty said:


Quote:


20 years of poor OL drafting. And that's the issue. When you draft Wilson over Glenn. Sintim over Max Unger etc is what it is.

The Giants SUCK at drafting OL when they finally get around to it. How about anyone who was there when they drafted Marvin Austin, Jay Bromley or Damontre Moore. They suck at it and don't invest enough picks early in the last 10-12 years.



And yes. Reese's little spurt of forced picks got us the HOF trio of Pugh Flowers and Richberg. Let's not let a 3 years of panicky picks let him off the OL hook Guys who many not have had to be grabbed if Reese didn't pass on OL So often



How about Shaun William over Alan Faneca? What about any LB drafted in the last 20 years? I stand by what I said and it does not take away from all the team has accomplished.
I wanted Faneca bad. They needed OL. He's up for the HOF. Accorsi and Reese are two
Of a kind. Senorita Moss trade up along w Kiwi. Two players they didn't need but "wowed them" Athletically.

They badly needed new eyes in the FO. Its been pervasive for ever
Just look at  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 3:26 pm : link
the 1998 and 1999 draft classes out of 15 picks you got 4 decent players only 1 and 2 guys that I don't remember ever playing in a regular season game. Any you guys correct me if I am wrong but only 1 player from those 2 drafts got a 2nd contract from the Giants.
1998  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 3:47 pm : link
1-Shaun William
2-Joe Jurevicius
3-Brian Alford
5-Toby Myles
6-Todd Pollack
7-Ben Fricke
1999
1-Luke Petitgout
2-Joe Montgomery
3-Dan Campbell
4-Sean Bennett
5-Mike Rosenthal
6-Lyle West
6-Andre Weathers
7-Ryan Hale
7-O.J Childress

I think only Luke Petitgout got a 2nd contract out of all of those players.
RE: 1998  
arcarsenal : 12/12/2017 3:53 pm : link
In comment 13737787 NYBEN1963 said:
Quote:
1-Shaun William
2-Joe Jurevicius
3-Brian Alford
5-Toby Myles
6-Todd Pollack
7-Ben Fricke
1999
1-Luke Petitgout
2-Joe Montgomery
3-Dan Campbell
4-Sean Bennett
5-Mike Rosenthal
6-Lyle West
6-Andre Weathers
7-Ryan Hale
7-O.J Childress

I think only Luke Petitgout got a 2nd contract out of all of those players.


Shaun Williams got a second contract here before he went to Carolina.
RE: RE: 1998  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13737801 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13737787 NYBEN1963 said:


Quote:


1-Shaun William
2-Joe Jurevicius
3-Brian Alford
5-Toby Myles
6-Todd Pollack
7-Ben Fricke
1999
1-Luke Petitgout
2-Joe Montgomery
3-Dan Campbell
4-Sean Bennett
5-Mike Rosenthal
6-Lyle West
6-Andre Weathers
7-Ryan Hale
7-O.J Childress

I think only Luke Petitgout got a 2nd contract out of all of those players.



Shaun Williams got a second contract here before he went to Carolina.


Thanks I was not sure about him..so 2 out of 15 players? I know you can't keep everyone but other than Dan Campbell and Joe Jurevicius who else would you want to keep from these 2 drafts?
Montgomery in Rd two was a joke. Then  
LauderdaleMatty : 12/12/2017 4:01 pm : link
Bennett in Rd 4. Virtually the same player. Luke P Was a solid T even if we know know he's a real Scum bag

If Mara can't see the need for new eyes and blood then God help us fans
There have..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/12/2017 4:33 pm : link
been just a bag of strange fucking comments lately:

Quote:
Montgomery in Rd two was a joke. Then
LauderdaleMatty : 4:01 pm : link : reply
Bennett in Rd 4. Virtually the same player. Luke P Was a solid T even if we know know he's a real Scum bag

If Mara can't see the need for new eyes and blood then God help us fans


What in the holy fuck does drafting Montgomery, Bennett and some random comment about Luke P have to do with bringing "new eyes and blood" in?

Just more and more fucking ponderous every day.
RE: There have..  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 4:42 pm : link
In comment 13737881 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
been just a bag of strange fucking comments lately:



Quote:


Montgomery in Rd two was a joke. Then
LauderdaleMatty : 4:01 pm : link : reply
Bennett in Rd 4. Virtually the same player. Luke P Was a solid T even if we know know he's a real Scum bag

If Mara can't see the need for new eyes and blood then God help us fans



What in the holy fuck does drafting Montgomery, Bennett and some random comment about Luke P have to do with bringing "new eyes and blood" in?

Just more and more fucking ponderous every day.


FMIC I think some of you are missing my point or I just did not make it well enough. The entire point of this thread is that all of these guys are part of the George Young tree and all of them have the same draft philosophy. Everyone that is working in that front office or has ever worked in that front office will bring the same mindset to building the team.As much as everyone wants to believe that he was Ernie Accorsi was no better or no worse than Jerry Reese ..they were the same.And Gettleman would continue it
NYBEN...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/12/2017 4:49 pm : link
that comment above wasn't directed at you, but I've addressed the point you're trying to make and I don't agree with it.

Basically, because we haven't had top draft picks that are LB's and the OL picks haven't panned out, the entire organization is looked at as being incompetent, despite an overall history that shows otherwise.

I don't get the idea that Gettleman has the same philosophy as Young or that he's just a safe choice. He did a decent job in Carolina, including some picks that were LB's and OL who have turned out well.

It seems to be an idea less rooted in evidence and instead from a cliche.

And LauderdaleMatty is just historically a dim bulb, which is who the comment was directed at.
RE: NYBEN...  
NYBEN1963 : 12/12/2017 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13737918 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that comment above wasn't directed at you, but I've addressed the point you're trying to make and I don't agree with it.

Basically, because we haven't had top draft picks that are LB's and the OL picks haven't panned out, the entire organization is looked at as being incompetent, despite an overall history that shows otherwise.

I don't get the idea that Gettleman has the same philosophy as Young or that he's just a safe choice. He did a decent job in Carolina, including some picks that were LB's and OL who have turned out well.

It seems to be an idea less rooted in evidence and instead from a cliche.

And LauderdaleMatty is just historically a dim bulb, which is who the comment was directed at.


I understand your point and agree with a lot of it ...I do think what we all can agree on is that this is going to be a huge off-season for this team and the owners have to go in with open minds and not just go for the safe familiar choice
I will..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/12/2017 5:13 pm : link
be upset if the team hires Gettleman without doing due diligence and taking their time to look at other candidates.

There's no need to rush the decision.
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