NFT: 12/12: Lakers (10-15) vs Knicks (13-13) 7PM

Carmelo is now shooting 40% on the year (and dropping), scoring 14.5 points/game over his last 10 games.

Westbrook is having an awful year too. You always hear talk of superstars making guys better around them....is it fair to argue that Carmelo and his iso/ball stopping actually makes players around him worse?

What a disaster of a trade for OKC.

In comment 13736895 Tesla said:

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Carmelo is now shooting 40% on the year (and dropping), scoring 14.5 points/game over his last 10 games. Westbrook is having an awful year too. You always hear talk of superstars making guys better around them....is it fair to argue that Carmelo and his iso/ball stopping actually makes players around him worse? What a disaster of a trade for OKC.

Melo was an all-star, never a superstar IMO.

is very bad for his team and teammates. I've said this before, but all of his shots are coming from far away and all of his teammates are usually standing on the perimeter when he shoots. He has the ball, he dribbles, his teammates stand around and watch and he misses. Easy rebound for the defense. In the past, he had the ball close to the rim and players were cutting and crashing the rim. Carmelo is a bad, bad basketball player right now.

I'm ready to watch the Ingram and Porzy show.

Have to get these next 2 games against Lakers and brooklyn..

with westbrook it would be very different. Its not really fair to act like this version of Melo is the same as Melo from 5-10 years ago.

In comment 13736903 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 13736895 Tesla said: Quote: Carmelo is now shooting 40% on the year (and dropping), scoring 14.5 points/game over his last 10 games. Oh please. You always thought Melo was a superstar. We�ve had this argument for years she I always said trade him Westbrook is having an awful year too. You always hear talk of superstars making guys better around them....is it fair to argue that Carmelo and his iso/ball stopping actually makes players around him worse? What a disaster of a trade for OKC. Melo was an all-star, never a superstar IMO.

looks like a future star

In comment 13736895 Tesla said:

Quote:

Carmelo is now shooting 40% on the year (and dropping), scoring 14.5 points/game over his last 10 games. Westbrook is having an awful year too. You always hear talk of superstars making guys better around them....is it fair to argue that Carmelo and his iso/ball stopping actually makes players around him worse? What a disaster of a trade for OKC.

Melo appears to be on the decline, but the relative success of the players OKC traded away in both deals has to figure into the evaluation of what's happening there. At what point do they take a hard look at how Russ plays the game? Or you can just blame OKC's struggles on the fact that fat Ray Felton is prominently involved.

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Carmelo Anthony left the arena tonight before the locker room was open to reporters for postgame availability.

In comment 13736971 Earl the goat said:

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Oh please. You always thought Melo was a superstar. We�ve had this argument for years she I always said trade him. What a disaster of a trade for OKC.

You've got me confused buddy. I never said Melo was a superstar. I might have said not to trade him a few years ago, but I never said he was a superstar.

Is
1. Paul George doesn�t want to be there. Half of him is already in LA
2. Russ cannot play with other stars
3. Melo is a ball stopping me first self proclaimed superstar who never played defense

Everybody was putting Sam Presti on Mt Rushmore but he may find himself unemployed at the end of the season

.

the rat found a good one in Adebayo. Kid is going to be a very solid NBA player.

In comment 13736984 DanMetroMan said:

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Royce Young‏Verified account @royceyoung Following Following @royceyoung More Carmelo Anthony left the arena tonight before the locker room was open to reporters for postgame availability.

the one thing the NY writers could agree on was that Melo was ALWAYS available to the press and would politely answer every question.

Tatum with a rare stinker 4 and 10

Don't look now but Kris Dunn is suddenly playing pretty well. 16 and 7 over his last 5, shooting 39% from 3 on the season

Rondo almost had a "quadruple double"... 13 points, 12 assists, 12 boards, 8 turnovers

E'Twaun Moore wow 15-20 36 points 3 assists 3 boards

Jrue Holiday has been a beast lately... 37 4 boards 5 assists 4 steals, last 5 games 29, 5 and 4 on 61/46!

Adebayo 14, 4 and 4 with 2 assists 2 steals

Monk has been AWFUL lately shooting 18% from the field, 17 % from 3 last 5 games. Willy for Monk!!!!!

Jordan Bell 11 and 6, 1 assist, 1 steal :(

until THJr returns and Kanter is healthy again. They had a nice starting five going, now not so much. I expect Lance starting for THJr again, and to see a lot of KOQ, who's sometimes good but not consistent.

the Frank/Baker backcourt looks good.

But was never a superstar? What bullshit

In comment 13736994 GiantFilthy said:

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.

Only until next July ...

In comment 13737062 nygiants16 said:

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But was never a superstar? What bullshit

I don't know if this is sarcasm or not. But I firmly believe he was never a superstar in this league. An AllStar for sure.

In comment 13737060 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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the Frank/Baker backcourt looks good.

They did look good the other night, but that was against Atlanta and is a small sample size. Don't get me wrong, though - love to see them do it again.

In comment 13737063 JonC said:

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In comment 13736994 GiantFilthy said: Quote: . Only until next July ...

In comment 13737067 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 13737062 nygiants16 said: Quote: But was never a superstar? What bullshit I don't know if this is sarcasm or not. But I firmly believe he was never a superstar in this league. An AllStar for sure.

Never? How about the fact he carried Denver to the playoffs every single year in a tough weather conference...

He carried the Knicks to 54 wins and was 3rd in mvp and a scoring champion..

In comment 13737060 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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the Frank/Baker backcourt looks good.

Baker sucks. It was one ok game against a lousy team. He's the 6th or 7th best guard on the roster.

better than he was as a rookie and he's added a major weapon to his game that he didn't even have in college (pick and roll jump shooting). I don't necessarily see that as a failure of OKC or Westbrook... just the natural improvement of a young player.

it's safe to say the east is every bit as good at the top, middle and bottom as the western conference. I'd even say the east is better although Golden State's star power trumps all. Celtics are rolling though.

Took a while but the east finally caught the west. At least it looks that way:


BOS
23 6 0 12-2 11-3 7-3 W1
TorontoRaptors

TOR
17 7 3.5 9-1 8-6 8-2 W6
ClevelandCavaliers

CLE
19 8 3 10-4 9-4 9-1 W1
MilwaukeeBucks

MIL
15 10 6 9-4 6-6 7-3 W3
IndianaPacers

IND
16 11 6 10-4 6-7 7-3 W4
WashingtonWizards

WAS
14 12 7.5 6-5 8-7 5-5 L1
DetroitPistons

DET
14 12 7.5 8-4 6-8 3-7 L6
New YorkKnicks

NY
13 13 8.5 12-5 1-8 4-6 W1
MiamiHeat

MIA
13 13 8.5 5-6 7-7 5-5 W1
Philadelphia76ers

PHI
13 13 8.5 7-6 6-7 4-6 L4
BrooklynNets

BKN
10 15 11 5-7 5-8 4-6 L1
OrlandoMagic

ORL
11 17 11.5 6-6 5-11 3-7 L2
CharlotteHornets

CHA
10 16 11.5 8-6 1-10 3-7 L3
AtlantaHawks

ATL
6 20 15.5 3-9 3-11 3-7 L1
ChicagoBulls

CHI
6 20 15.5 3-8 2-12 2-8 W2
WESTERN CONFERENCE


HoustonRockets

HOU
21 4 0 8-3 12-1 9-1 W9
Golden StateWarriors

GS
21 6 1 8-3 13-3 8-2 W6
San AntonioSpurs

SA
19 8 3 13-2 6-6 8-2 W4
MinnesotaTimberwolves

MIN
16 11 6 9-4 7-7 6-4 W2
DenverNuggets

DEN
14 12 7.5 10-2 4-10 5-5 L1
PortlandTrail Blazers

POR
13 12 8 7-8 6-4 5-5 L4
New OrleansPelicans

NO
14 14 8.5 7-7 7-6 5-5 W1
UtahJazz

UTA
13 14 9 11-5 2-9 6-4 L3
Oklahoma CityThunder

OKC
12 14 9.5 9-3 3-10 5-5 W1
Los AngelesLakers

LAL
10 15 11 6-7 4-8 4-6 W2
Los AngelesClippers

LAC
9 15 11.5 5-7 4-8 4-6 W1
PhoenixSuns

PHO
9 19 13.5 4-11 5-8 2-8 L3
SacramentoKings

SAC
8 18 13.5 4-7 4-11 4-6 L1
MemphisGrizzlies

MEM
8 19 14 5-10 3-8 1-9 L3
DallasMavericks

DAL
7 20 15 5-10 2-10 4-6 L3

next to the streak (W or L) is last ten.

In comment 13737074 nygiants16 said:

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Never? How about the fact he carried Denver to the playoffs every single year in a tough weather conference... He carried the Knicks to 54 wins and was 3rd in mvp and a scoring champion..

Elite scorer? Yes. Superstar? No. He made it past the first round of the playoffs only twice in his career. Never made his teammates better, killed off Linsanity, and chased money over winning in NY. Iso, 6x jabstep contested jumper, no defense. He hasn't carried shit in NY. He is a HOFer.

is close to a HOF player. He's a guy who plays losing basketball, but sure did get a lot of shots up. Talented and skilled scorer but never that interested in the team concept to be a winning player.

He won at SU, and he won some gold medals with a stacked team.

In comment 13737329 Pep22 said:

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is close to a HOF player.

then you don't know much about the HOF.

In comment 13737288 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 13737074 nygiants16 said: Quote: Never? How about the fact he carried Denver to the playoffs every single year in a tough weather conference... He carried the Knicks to 54 wins and was 3rd in mvp and a scoring champion.. Elite scorer? Yes. Superstar? No. He made it past the first round of the playoffs only twice in his career. Never made his teammates better, killed off Linsanity, and chased money over winning in NY. Iso, 6x jabstep contested jumper, no defense. He hasn't carried shit in NY. He is a HOFer.

Look at the team's he lost to in the playoffs..

He lost only twice in the playoffs where his team was favored, pavers series and Utah series...

All the other times he lost to the apura, lakers, Celtics or heat...

that Melo better individual career than Paul Pierce. The only difference is that the Celtics got Garnett in his prime, Ray Allen, a young Rondo, and a great defensive coach in Thibideaux to create championship-caliber team whereas a young Melo played for the Nuggets in a stacked West and then came to the laughing stock franchise of the NBA whose best point guard was the two weeks they had Jeremy Lin.

In comment 13737378 Enzo said:

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In comment 13737329 Pep22 said: Quote: is close to a HOF player. then you don't know much about the HOF.

If the criteria jacking up shots and bleeding the shot clock while 4 other guys are stationary -- for person rather than team gain, then he's in.

rather than team gain.

but I think you are being unfair to his career. He wasn't always this kind of player and I think it changed when he hurt his knee. He used to score a ton in the paint which is great for team ball. He wasn't always a stop the ball, stand around and shoot long jumpers kind of player.

if fitness, defense, passing and transition play don't mean anything to you, then there is a HOF spot for loser players like him.

In comment 13737382 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13737288 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: In comment 13737074 nygiants16 said: Quote: Never? How about the fact he carried Denver to the playoffs every single year in a tough weather conference... He carried the Knicks to 54 wins and was 3rd in mvp and a scoring champion.. Elite scorer? Yes. Superstar? No. He made it past the first round of the playoffs only twice in his career. Never made his teammates better, killed off Linsanity, and chased money over winning in NY. Iso, 6x jabstep contested jumper, no defense. He hasn't carried shit in NY. He is a HOFer. Look at the team's he lost to in the playoffs.. He lost only twice in the playoffs where his team was favored, pavers series and Utah series... All the other times he lost to the apura, lakers, Celtics or heat...

Also lost to the Clippers when they were the higher seeding. Point is, you would think a Superstar would make it out of the first round more than twice in his career. He's an elite scorer, who won an NCAA championship and 3 Gold Medals at the Olympics.

didn't make it out of the first round that often. Semantics...labels...whatever...at his peak Melo was a tremendous player. He was as good a scorer the NBA has ever seen. If he landed on another team with talent and leadership and a system he would have won plenty. At his peak Melo never played with a legit #2.

In comment 13737592 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 13737382 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13737288 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: In comment 13737074 nygiants16 said: Quote: Never? How about the fact he carried Denver to the playoffs every single year in a tough weather conference... He carried the Knicks to 54 wins and was 3rd in mvp and a scoring champion.. Elite scorer? Yes. Superstar? No. He made it past the first round of the playoffs only twice in his career. Never made his teammates better, killed off Linsanity, and chased money over winning in NY. Iso, 6x jabstep contested jumper, no defense. He hasn't carried shit in NY. He is a HOFer. Look at the team's he lost to in the playoffs.. He lost only twice in the playoffs where his team was favored, pavers series and Utah series... All the other times he lost to the apura, lakers, Celtics or heat... Also lost to the Clippers when they were the higher seeding. Point is, you would think a Superstar would make it out of the first round more than twice in his career. He's an elite scorer, who won an NCAA championship and 3 Gold Medals at the Olympics.

So Chris Paul not a superstar?

In comment 13737597 djm said:

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didn't make it out of the first round that often. Semantics...labels...whatever...at his peak Melo was a tremendous player. He was as good a scorer the NBA has ever seen. If he landed on another team with talent and leadership and a system he would have won plenty. At his peak Melo never played with a legit #2.

That's because Melo is a legit #2. Never was an alpha dog. But I agree, tremendous player. I guess Superstar is how one would define the word.

got to play in Thibs's scheme and got to join up with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo otherwise people would never call him a superstar either.

Is Anthony Davis a superstar? He's been in the league for six seasons and has yet to win a playoff GAME!

Look at the point guards he played with in NY. It's arguably the worst collection of PG play over a six year period in recent NBA history.

In comment 13737599 nygiants16 said:

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So Chris Paul not a superstar?

The guy who's made it out of the first round multiple times? Also made multiple all NBA Defensive Team while being a team player? Yeah.. that guy is a superstar.

he was a tremendous scorer at times who never cared about developing his game beyond the one thing he did well

and for several years now, he's been too slow/apathetic to run the court and has never defended or shared the ball

In comment 13737603 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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got to play in Thibs's scheme and got to join up with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo otherwise people would never call him a superstar either. Is Anthony Davis a superstar? He's been in the league for six seasons and has yet to win a playoff GAME! Look at the point guards he played with in NY. It's arguably the worst collection of PG play over a six year period in recent NBA history.

Kevin Garnett also played defense. Having an elite chucker who doesn't make teams better doesn't carry around the superstar nametag.

that Garnett played, and with all the ways he made teammates better, why did he have an abysmal playoff track record until he joined a "super team" in Boston?

In comment 13737603 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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got to play in Thibs's scheme and got to join up with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo otherwise people would never call him a superstar either. Is Anthony Davis a superstar? He's been in the league for six seasons and has yet to win a playoff GAME! Look at the point guards he played with in NY. It's arguably the worst collection of PG play over a six year period in recent NBA history.

>> while its true those PGs were bad, Melo is not a guy that benefits from good PG play. Because he doesn't run the court or move off the ball, he doesn't get the easy buckets most get when playing with a facilitating PG. Melo's buckets generally come from ISO play. You can see it now, he's with a guy that racks up assists very well, but Melo's (efficiency #s and PPG) numbers are down. Plus, as one would expect, his new team is worse for having him and his old team is better for discarding him.

he's one of the best PFs in NBA history.

But this argument that Melo is not a superstar applies requirements on him that are not required of other players.

Is James Harden a superstar? Is Westbrook? Neither of them play defense. Was Steve Nash a superstar? What about MVP season Derrick Rose? Was he a superstar that season?

In comment 13737622 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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that Garnett played, and with all the ways he made teammates better, why did he have an abysmal playoff track record until he joined a "super team" in Boston?

He was an MVP before joining Boston. He was a #1 seed in Minnesota before leaving for Boston. He also a defensive player of the year. He carried Minnesota both offensively and defensively to the playoffs for many years. His best player was Stephon Marbury, who us Knicks fans like to shit on.

To try to compare him to Melo who isn't even interested in defense is laughable.

In comment 13737622 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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that Garnett played, and with all the ways he made teammates better, why did he have an abysmal playoff track record until he joined a "super team" in Boston?

Also, Melo had the opportunity to join teams with talent. Instead he chose to gut the Knicks and resign with them because of the money. You see what he's doing out in OKC with more talent? Still losing.

that Melo wouldn't benefit from good PG play? The only times he had good point guards were earlier in his career in Denver. HE had a few years of Andre Miller and Chauncey Billups and Melo was an All-NBA player.

In comment 13737638 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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that Melo wouldn't benefit from good PG play? The only times he had good point guards were earlier in his career in Denver. HE had a few years of Andre Miller and Chauncey Billups and Melo was an All-NBA player.

Wanna know Melos best PG? Jeremy Lin who created his career off of Linsanity when Melo was conveniently injured and on the bench. Wanna know when Linsanity died? When Melo came back.

I'm not comparing Melo to Garnett as players. I'm illustrating that the notion that Melo's lack of playoff success prevents him from being a superstar would mean that Garnett wasn't a superstar until he got to Boston and teamed up with other stars.

You can't have it both ways.

In comment 13737607 Pep22 said:

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he was a tremendous scorer at times who never cared about developing his game beyond the one thing he did well and for several years now, he's been too slow/apathetic to run the court and has never defended or shared the ball

Go look at the nuggets record before melo got there and then tell me he never made anyone better..

In comment 13737638 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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that Melo wouldn't benefit from good PG play? The only times he had good point guards were earlier in his career in Denver. HE had a few years of Andre Miller and Chauncey Billups and Melo was an All-NBA player.

again...because he's a stationary player (doesn't cut to the hoop, isn't active running people into screens, doesn't get out in the transition game unless he's a trail option)

In comment 13737641 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 13737638 PaulBlakeTSU said: Quote: that Melo wouldn't benefit from good PG play? The only times he had good point guards were earlier in his career in Denver. HE had a few years of Andre Miller and Chauncey Billups and Melo was an All-NBA player. Wanna know Melos best PG? Jeremy Lin who created his career off of Linsanity when Melo was conveniently injured and on the bench. Wanna know when Linsanity died? When Melo came back.

Insanity died because Jeremy Lin is a mediocre player..

And stop rewriting history, melo had a much better stretch and better record than linsanity

In comment 13737642 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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I'm not comparing Melo to Garnett as players. I'm illustrating that the notion that Melo's lack of playoff success prevents him from being a superstar would mean that Garnett wasn't a superstar until he got to Boston and teamed up with other stars. You can't have it both ways.

I said Melo was an elite scorer who didn't play defense.. on top of that never really got out of the first round. Garnett played defense, won awards, and an NBA MVP. He was a superstar.

In comment 13737624 Pep22 said:

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In comment 13737603 PaulBlakeTSU said: Quote: got to play in Thibs's scheme and got to join up with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo otherwise people would never call him a superstar either. Is Anthony Davis a superstar? He's been in the league for six seasons and has yet to win a playoff GAME! Look at the point guards he played with in NY. It's arguably the worst collection of PG play over a six year period in recent NBA history. >> while its true those PGs were bad, Melo is not a guy that benefits from good PG play. Because he doesn't run the court or move off the ball, he doesn't get the easy buckets most get when playing with a facilitating PG. Melo's buckets generally come from ISO play. You can see it now, he's with a guy that racks up assists very well, but Melo's (efficiency #s and PPG) numbers are down. Plus, as one would expect, his new team is worse for having him and his old team is better for discarding him.

You are lost..

You do realize that George Karl ran uptempo system right?

died because Jeremy Lin is nothing special. That two week stretch was as exciting as any time in recent memory for the Knicks. But over 8 seasons, Lin has played for 6 different franchises has done nothing more than play like a below-average starting guard in the league.

In comment 13737655 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13737624 Pep22 said: Quote: In comment 13737603 PaulBlakeTSU said: Quote: got to play in Thibs's scheme and got to join up with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo otherwise people would never call him a superstar either. Is Anthony Davis a superstar? He's been in the league for six seasons and has yet to win a playoff GAME! Look at the point guards he played with in NY. It's arguably the worst collection of PG play over a six year period in recent NBA history. >> while its true those PGs were bad, Melo is not a guy that benefits from good PG play. Because he doesn't run the court or move off the ball, he doesn't get the easy buckets most get when playing with a facilitating PG. Melo's buckets generally come from ISO play. You can see it now, he's with a guy that racks up assists very well, but Melo's (efficiency #s and PPG) numbers are down. Plus, as one would expect, his new team is worse for having him and his old team is better for discarding him. You are lost.. You do realize that George Karl ran uptempo system right?

That was what, 8 years ago?

This is the same George Karl that ripped Melo for the various reasons why he's a coach/team killer, right?

elite scorers who don't play defense are still superstars if they are among the best players in the league.

Melo's defense was based on effort and it's harder to play defense when he had to carry the offensive load for the Knicks every game.

And if you (and mostly Pep) are criticizing a lack of playoff success, and yet other superstars who did play defense had the same problems in the playoffs, then apparently the isolated ability of playing defense didn't matter in the grand scheme of winning.

a by product of who he is as a player

Melo plays for one thing - his scoring average. He's never cared enough about winning to do much beyond that. He is one of the best examples of a lazy/selfish; all sizzle, no steak player.

Deleting him from the roster (along w/ Phil, Rose) is the primary reason why the NYK are now a functional, watchable, respectable tea,

He's a good player who gets hurt a lot. I don't think a good PG helps Melo a ton because he doesn't move at all without the ball. He's not great running the floor either. Melo was at his best when he got the ball in the low block and he attacked the rim. A good PG doesn't really help with that. Melo is the kind of player that needs a team built around his weaknesses.

KG vs Melo

CP3 vs Melo

Harden vs Melo

Durant vs Melo

Melo doesn�t get one nod.

In comment 13737704 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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KG vs Melo CP3 vs Melo Harden vs Melo Durant vs Melo Melo doesn�t get one nod.

you can add a lot of guys to a "better than Melo" list...it still doesn't make your assessment of his career any less inaccurate.

In comment 13737696 Keith said:

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He's a good player who gets hurt a lot. I don't think a good PG helps Melo a ton because he doesn't move at all without the ball. He's not great running the floor either. Melo was at his best when he got the ball in the low block and he attacked the rim. A good PG doesn't really help with that. Melo is the kind of player that needs a team built around his weaknesses.

a good PG doesn't help him? low block? holy fuck this is a pile of nonsense.

Besides being an elite scorer?

In comment 13737704 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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KG vs Melo CP3 vs Melo Harden vs Melo Durant vs Melo Melo doesn�t get one nod.

James Harden hasn't even attempted to play defense since his last court appearance for assault. By everything that was written on this thread, how can he be a superstar?

In comment 13737724 PaulBlakeTSU said:

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In comment 13737704 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: KG vs Melo CP3 vs Melo Harden vs Melo Durant vs Melo Melo doesn�t get one nod. James Harden hasn't even attempted to play defense since his last court appearance for assault. By everything that was written on this thread, how can he be a superstar?

Harden averaged a double double last year. Leading the league in APG with 11.2. Both elite scorers, but Harden facilitates and moves without the ball.

any more without the ball. And as a guard who was asked to run the offense, I would hope that Harden could move the ball.

They play different positions.

But again, why is Harden's lack of defense irrelevant here?

Kevin Durant wasn't much of a ball "facilitator" before he decided to join the Warriors. He and Russ played a lot of iso basketball.

I don't remember anyone ever writing home about Dirk's defense or about how much he was running the floor and facilitating, either.

There are many ways to be a superstar.

any more without the Ball than Melo, it should say.

he needs to be in 10x better shape than when he was younger and Melo went in the other direction. He was spry as a young player, but when he came to the Knicks, he looked lazy and slow.

last 100 games or so is averaging

30 and 10

52% shooting
gets to the line 10x per night

has been the best player on a top 3 team in the league

Melo has never come close to that

Harden has been criticized in his career for being out of shape and for not playing defense, which seemed to be cornerstones of a superstar for you.

Most basketball players have flaws. Even the superstars.

I've lost interest in this debate. If you don't think Melo will make the Hall of Fame, then I'm not sure what you've been watching all these years. He is a lock.

but I prefer guys that make their teams better, not worse

in my mind, he wasted his career chasing scoring averages and not wins and his universal reputation for that is well earned

No Clyde tonight?

In comment 13738115 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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No Clyde tonight?

it's ESPN, and they are insufferable. A "mute" candidate for sure.

Should be a fun game. Lakers destroyed the Knicks last year at the Garden.

.

In comment 13738120 Del Shofner said:

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In comment 13738115 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: No Clyde tonight? it's ESPN, and they are insufferable. A "mute" candidate for sure.

Ah. That�s right. Yeah Mark Jackson. Blah. Thanks.

I loved the superstar, HOF bound, generational talent of Melo butim still a little scorned from his departure. Hate to muddy up a game thread this Melo love-fest.

Let�s go boys! We need to buck up for another generational talent...Bonzo Ball!

let's go

In comment 13737713 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

Quote:

Besides being an elite scorer?

An elite scorer who grabbed rebounds. The guy was great at his peak. Even if he wasn't a good defender. You're too close to melo as a Knicks fan. Little objectivity.

College champion, multi-time olympic champion and fantastic international player, and a top level NBA player for a very long time. It's not even a discussion unless you're just not familiar with the basketball HOF's selection process. It would be extremely difficult to make the argument that he shouldn't get in.

I said he was an all-star player and will make the HOF. Superstar is subjective and just my opinion.

Decent first quarter. Down 4.

In comment 13738150 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

College champion, multi-time olympic champion and fantastic international player, and a top level NBA player for a very long time. It's not even a discussion unless you're just not familiar with the basketball HOF's selection process. It would be extremely difficult to make the argument that he shouldn't get in.

Yes - It's the basketball hall of fame, not the "NBA" hall of fame. Unlike Canton, which is the "pro football" hall of fame. Cooperstown falls somewhere in the middle.

Earl Strom is in the basketball hall of fame. (Just sayin' ...)

And still not closing out on 3�s

so far. Completely outworked.

all over.

passes. Lame.

Clarkson is such a better player

players.

is so damn good

In comment 13738220 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

is so damn good

I like how he is not forcing much tonight, past few games he was forcing shots

Christ

sucks

Which teams would want courtney lee. Would a deal to Detroit for Stanley Johnson and to match contracts either ish smith or boban, both come off the books next year so frees up cap space one year earlier than lees deal, Johnson has been abysmal offensively, but apparently a very good defender. I haven't seen him play much at all so I have no idea if there is any hope for him offensively. Maybe Detroit throws in a 2nd rounder.

Orlando for hezonja and Mack. Again macks deal ends after next year so a year earlier than lee. Maybe a second rounder also.

Cleveland for frye Calderon and a protected first or shump and a protected 1st

Any other ideas I don't think we can expect much more than those type of deals for lee

is insufferable. His son makes a shot and makes it all about himself.

But in spurts he brings some scoring punch off the bench that this team severely lacks

In comment 13738266 nygiants16 said:

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But in spurts he brings some scoring punch off the bench that this team severely lacks

Beasley is my least favorite Knick in a loooong time(non Rose edition).

defender.

In comment 13738279 Keith said:

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defender.

Wasn't he conference defensive player of the year in college?

Frenchie coming alive.

In comment 13738255 GMEN46 said:

Quote:

Which teams would want courtney lee. Would a deal to Detroit for Stanley Johnson and to match contracts either ish smith or boban, both come off the books next year so frees up cap space one year earlier than lees deal, Johnson has been abysmal offensively, but apparently a very good defender. I haven't seen him play much at all so I have no idea if there is any hope for him offensively. Maybe Detroit throws in a 2nd rounder. Orlando for hezonja and Mack. Again macks deal ends after next year so a year earlier than lee. Maybe a second rounder also. Cleveland for frye Calderon and a protected first or shump and a protected 1st Any other ideas I don't think we can expect much more than those type of deals for lee

Lee Oquinn and Chicago�s second rounder
For Mudiay Faried and Myles

.

Dammit.

Lakers best rookie. Hey Stanley!

Knicks can hold for last shot.

.

They let a lot of contact go with KP.

In comment 13738304 PhiPsi125 said:

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They let a lot of contact go with KP.

Amazing that the refs are allowing that.

that's the second time in the last 5 games he hasn't drawn up a single play - just give it to Kristaps for a 3. Don't know why he kept a small team on the floor with a 5 point lead. Kanter would have helped more than Beasley, who has a penchant for letting up on defense.

Awful last shot.

by Ball

Then they call that bullshit

Jesus Christ.

Then they call that bullshit

Can we play some tough interior defense please!

Could hustle play by Lee

In comment 13738314 GentleGiant said:

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that's the second time in the last 5 games he hasn't drawn up a single play - just give it to Kristaps for a 3. Don't know why he kept a small team on the floor with a 5 point lead. Kanter would have helped more than Beasley, who has a penchant for letting up on defense.

Kanter probably hasn�t played in a while because he�s been hurt.

Gotta hit some free throws to seal it.

.

.

.

.

overcame some sloppy play, and atrocious calls by the refs

Good to see Beasley make a difference with his athleticism in OT, when they were wrestling against KP (and not getting called for it)

KP is a beast and when they finally start giving him some officiating love, he'll be unstoppable.

.

C'mon Lakers you are getting LeBron anyway

Was absolutely horrific tonight. Good lord.

Nice win by our squad. But you just can't have blatant incompetence from a ref. Horrible.

at least 3 or 4 times KP got hit while shooting - where anyone else would draw a foul - but he didn't. Don't know what the deal is with that. Do they think he's so big that he can't draw the fouls that other players do? Seems ridiculous - the fouls clearly affect his shots.

In comment 13738426 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

at least 3 or 4 times KP got hit while shooting - where anyone else would draw a foul - but he didn't. Don't know what the deal is with that. Do they think he's so big that he can't draw the fouls that other players do? Seems ridiculous - the fouls clearly affect his shots.

He was getting a LOT of calls earlier in the season. Probably refs overcorrecting themselves.

10-5-5, including 3-4 from 3. Looks like he�s taking his shot when available more often the last couple games

And Ball had a good one, very active down the stretch and hit some big 3s. Although the foul called against Frank that gave him the free throws to tie it was one of most ridiculous calls you�ll ever see.

I hate seeing his jackass father acting like a jackass courtside...makes it hard not to really dislike Lonzo, when he seems to be mostly out there just playing hard

.

stupid autocorrect.

Is the tap on the arm..

Meanwhile they call a phantom foul on Frank when ball just falls

Much more assertive on offense lately, and the three ball is starting to drop.

B's 220 kid wins.

Great night of winning!

Can't keep winning down. Because winning trumps all.

In comment 13738502 B in ALB said:

Quote:

B's 220 kid wins. Great night of winning! Can't keep winning down. Because winning trumps all.

Gotta keep up with the Joneses ...

Congrats on B Jr!

Love all the wins tonight! The kid was an animal! So proud.

What a great night of winning!

You never think that a Tuesday would be such a huge night of victories. But holy 💩!

Wins on wins on wins on wins.

Victory!

and the horse you rode in on!

Waaaay too many laker fans.

Frank is making some strides

Since Patrick Ewing and firet PLAYER IN HISTORY to do so with 5 three pointers.

.

If it weren�t for Simmons having an absolutely brutal game, by his standards, the Sixers would be rolling.

"First player in NBA history"

In comment 13738529 bceagle05 said:

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and the horse you rode in on!

horse: "me too"

Frank should be starting.

In comment 13738556 Phil in LA said:

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Frank should be starting.

He had a good game tonight, but he's been coming along a bit slowly. There are some good signs there though. For now they're better off with Jack steering.

He is going to be a very fine 3-point shooter as he gets stronger. His stroke is first rate.

I haven;t changed my view that he is a three year project: two off-seasons to build his strength and athleticism to keep up with the defensive skills he already has, and the shooting that is beginning to show up. Similar path to KP, at a different position. Only after two years, he will still be a year younger than KP is now.

In comment 13738558 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13738556 Phil in LA said: Quote: Frank should be starting. He had a good game tonight, but he's been coming along a bit slowly. There are some good signs there though. For now they're better off with Jack steering.

I agree. All in all, I think they're bringing Frank along intelligently - not pushing him too fast or holding him back. Signing Jack and Sessions in the off season were good moves that are paying long term dividends in Frank's development.

Forget star treatment, anyone and everyone should get that call.

Talk about winning - Section 2 boys HS basketball champions Bethlehem Eagles beat Colonie in a repeat of last years finals.

In comment 13738567 Ira said:

Quote:

I agree. All in all, I think they're bringing Frank along intelligently - not pushing him too fast or holding him back. Signing Jack and Sessions in the off season were good moves that are paying long term dividends in Frank's development.

Sessions is a waste of roster spot.

In comment 13738594 GiantsUA said:

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Forget star treatment, anyone and everyone should get that call. Talk about winning - Section 2 boys HS basketball champions Bethlehem Eagles beat Colonie in a repeat of last years finals.

That's another big win. What a night of winning!

In comment 13738602 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13738567 Ira said: Quote: I agree. All in all, I think they're bringing Frank along intelligently - not pushing him too fast or holding him back. Signing Jack and Sessions in the off season were good moves that are paying long term dividends in Frank's development. Sessions is a waste of roster spot.

Insurance against Jack getting hurt. Otherwise you would be down to Frank and Ron Baker. Not sure there is anyone we are missing having on the roster for Sessions to be a DNP-CD most nights

and start winning on the road if they want to get to the next level. Winning at home is great but they look like utter horse shit when they travel.

.

Unicorn is as legit as it gets and he proves draft night Knick fans wrong almost every night.

Knicks seemed like the first team to finally expect drives by Ingram properly. Porz length was the main factor there.

If we are going to whine about calls though lets not forget about the blatant hold on Lonzo under the basket that was called that gave the Knicks second chance points nearing crunch time.

In comment 13738638 GiantFilthy said:

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Unicorn is as legit as it gets and he proves draft night Knick fans wrong almost every night. Knicks seemed like the first team to finally expect drives by Ingram properly. Porz length was the main factor there. If we are going to whine about calls though lets not forget about the blatant hold on Lonzo under the basket that was called that gave the Knicks second chance points nearing crunch time.

Lonzo flopped like a pro on that 3 point shot in OT

up high, where there was none. It was for undercutting the shooter and not giving space to come down.

I listened to, which was the broadcast on ESPN, said it should have been a play on with no whistle.

but Mark Jackson being wrong wouldn't surprise me.

but not a good game for the Knicks, IMO. There were some minor bright spots and KP hit some huge shots, but overall a bad effort on the home floor for the majority of the game. The Lakers outworked the Knicks and the Knicks really missed THJR. Lee had another really bad game.

sign for the Knicks is even when they aren't playing great, they'll get a guy like McDermott or Beasley to step up to help get the W.

Lots of role players who would be good pieces for a contending team

I hope his minutes continue to rise.

Really loved what I saw from Frank last night. You see him improving and gaining confidence with each minute he plays. And Jack is a perfect mentor for him. Anyone else think Jack will be a great coach after he retires? I still want him to attack the rim more aggressively but that hopefully will come.

Really impressive win- especially with Lee playing poorly. He may drive you crazy, but not having THJ hurts the offense. He's the only guy besides KP who can consistently create his own shot.

And Beasely really took it to Randle down the stretch. I'm a fan of Randle, but that was bad last night.

really fun to watch. It has been A LONG time since the Knicks were entertaining and fun to watch outside of the 1/2 season Jason Kidd played for them. Nice thing they have started at the Garden long way from a contender but very nice start.

is a prime example of why the Knicks should continue to target recent high picks that maybe haven't been in the right spot. McDermott was miscast as both a "top" scorer and then a 3 point bomber. Kid can obviously shoot but he has much more game than a 3 point specialist. Moves really well without the ball. I wouldn't want to give him a really silly contract but he's certainly worth keeping.

realize he's flawed but I think a contender would be smart to consider giving up a 2nd rounder for Beasley at the deadline. Guy can flat out score

finisher around the rim too. He really can do it all. I'd like him to start over Lance Thomas, but I guess more importantly, continue to get the minutes down the stretch.

Taurean Prince 24, 7 and 6 (this kid was a nice little find for a pending FA (Teague), he looks legit



Lyles 20 and 4 on 7/7, Phil's guy has been playing very well

RHJ 16 and 12, he's no KP but the Nets have found themselves a nice building block

LeVert 16 and 8

Embiid 28, 12 and 8, monster

Butler 38, 6 and 3

They have some nice young pieces, but why on earth would Lebron chose to go there for basketball reasons? Kuzma may be there only plus defender on that team- and that may be a stretch. Unless he's bringing Boogie and Paul George ( which would take a salary cap miracle), how is that team beating the Warriors?

Walton was also embarrassed down the stretch coaching. What was he thinking not fouling in OT?

I thought the same at the time.

Quote:

Mike Trudell: "Luke Walton said they wanted to foul down 4 with just over 30 seconds left after KCP missed the 3 in OT. Message didn�t get to the players. Was really loud in the building, players didn�t seem to hear it." "Whether coaches were yelling to foul or not (and they were), one of the players could recognize the situation and foul there, especially with a foul to give."

It didn't look like Walton was screaming to foul there.

In comment 13738851 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

I thought the same at the time. Quote: Mike Trudell: "Luke Walton said they wanted to foul down 4 with just over 30 seconds left after KCP missed the 3 in OT. Message didn�t get to the players. Was really loud in the building, players didn�t seem to hear it." "Whether coaches were yelling to foul or not (and they were), one of the players could recognize the situation and foul there, especially with a foul to give."

Easy to say it after the game oh yeah I was screaming foul

Honestly the entire coaching staff should have been up yelling at that point.

Really didn't seem like anyone had a clue about the foul situation there. Lakers broadcasters didn't realize they had a foul to give. Porz starts lining up at the free throw line not realizing there was a foul to give. Shit all around.

become a better passer. Too often double teams have him completely flummoxed. Part of that is on his teammates not being in the right spot (missing Hardaway hurts). But it's mostly him. This was something Melo was pretty awesome at, when he wanted to be. If he figures out how to move the ball effectively, he can find another level as a player. Overall this team still takes way too many long 2s. We just don't get opposing defenses on their heels enough and scrambling so that open 3s are available.

Some good news: Knicks currently have the 12th ranked offense and the 16th ranked defense. The second stat is probably more impressive given where they were last year. And just think what the offense could look like with better PG play and MORE THREE POINTERS!

If Beasley would embrace it he could be a valuable scorer off the bench, x factor types you see in playoffs that give you unexpected bursts of scoring...obviously there are going to be times where he is ineffective but he can flat out score when he is on...

Frank, my favorite play from him was the shot clock winding down and everyone though he had no idea, then he threw a no look pass to oquinn who finished under the rim, his awareness is awesome..

The thing I loved the most last night from pporzingis was that he let the game flow I feel like that past couple of weeks he forced to much..

right when he had Lonzo beat is something that will open up in the future and he will recognize faster when he gains confidence. (Which you already seeing more and more of after each game)

He has the potential to get to the rim and he's very long which will help with his finishing. I think this will be what he works on in the offseason. His shot is very smooth too.

Other than Lavar doing his best to steal the attention from his son.
Neither team can miss. - ( New Window )

In comment 13739248 GiantFilthy said:

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Other than Especially Lavar doing his best to steal the attention from his son. Neither team can miss. - ( New Window )

Quote:

"The kid hasn't said anything. It's been everybody else. So, I love his humility. He goes out, every time someone asks him a question, he says, 'This is not about me, man. I just want to win. I don't care about what I did.' I seen he had a triple-double one game and they lost. He was like, 'I don't care. We lost.'

ESPN - ( New Window )

That's a major step forward for Frank

In comment 13739623 dpinzow said:

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That's a major step forward for Frank

Ntilikina held Lonzo Ball to just 1 point and 2 assists in the fourth quarter and overtime.

Lonzo didn't have a chance against our rook in crunch time.

2 points and 1 assist.

Dennis Smith should be a Laker? How bout Donovan Mitchell? Jayson Tatum?

Quote:

Ntilikina held Lonzo Ball to just 1 point and 2 assists in the fourth quarter and overtime. Lonzo didn't have a chance against our rook in crunch time.

It isn't just about numbers. It's about the fact he's a gazelle, can blow by people and can rebound. Sure, he keeps making bad passes and his shot looks like he has palsy, but he'll learn to not throw the ball away and will become a sharp-shooter.

To be serious for a second, his metrics place him not just as one of the worst rookies this year, but one of the worst rookie guards of all time. Couple the slow start with his complete ass of a Dad and you have a perfect storm.

but does he play defense? I've seen TJ McConnell make him look like he had banana peels for shoes.

Ball on Frank - �He�s very tough to guard and he proved that tonight,� said Ball, whose dad, LaVar, from courtside gave Ntilikina earfuls every time he passed by. �He�s a great player. He�s young just like me playing in a big city and trying to find his way. Much respect to him, and all the best moving forward.�

Frank on Ball - "Playing against him was exciting. He�s a great player. He�s going to be great. He has size, vision, unbelievable vision of the court. I mean, he can make plays,�

Two fine young men and talented young players. Both have great careers ahead of them.

Some of those passes, I don't know how he saw his teammates.

The starters need the push and leadership on defense, and the second 5 desperately needs the scoring/shooting help. And, McDermott is better late in the game when he plays limited minutes earlier. His stamina still needs work.