His completion percentage is on par with a lot of former first round QBs
Just for context, Tim Tebow completed 70% of his passes at Florida. Does anyone want to argue that he was accurate?
You can't compare college completion %'s with the NFL. Spread offenses are one-read, one-route offenses that most college defenses have trouble closing on. The NFL is so much faster, and windows are much smaller.
Petrinos offense is closer to a pro style than a spread. There’s plenty of multi read plays in Louisville’s offensive scheme.
I’m not comparing them to the NFL I’m comparing them to other QBs coming out of college
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
He’s led two Wyoming squads to bowl games, which I believe is the first time that his been done in Laramie in quite a long time. Wyoming has brutal talent even relative to the MWC; they’ve regularly started true freshmen in the trenches that received no offers from other programs.
trying to not say you don't think an athletic black QB is smart enough to be picked that high.
Don't put words in my mouth.
I said Jackson's understanding of what will be expected of him at the next level is rudimentary. Underdeveloped. It isn't because he's black. It's because he hasn't been asked to do it in college. I've said the same thing of Allen and Webb. They're underdeveloped and projects too.
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
He’s led two Wyoming squads to bowl games, which I believe is the first time that his been done in Laramie in quite a long time. Wyoming has brutal talent even relative to the MWC; they’ve regularly started true freshmen in the trenches that received no offers from other programs.
Watch the below and tell me that Allen isn’t hampered by atrocious talent Allen vs Iowa - ( New Window )
Why doesn’t Jackson get the same excuses? Relative to the teams he was playing Louisville’s talent level on offense was poor. Him and maybe one of the WRs are NFL caliber talent, going against defenses that are going to put multiple Day one and day two picks into the nfl the next few years.
You can also watch Allen’s games and see him make atrocious decisions at times. There’s no sign of an elite QB bringing up the guys around him. Elite tools? Sure. But not a elite QB traits.
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He isn't at Bama and he isn't in Auburn. His stats and tape are what they are. Dynamic arm. Nice size and mobility. Long stretches where he looks like he just walked into the game off the street.
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
He’s led two Wyoming squads to bowl games, which I believe is the first time that his been done in Laramie in quite a long time. Wyoming has brutal talent even relative to the MWC; they’ve regularly started true freshmen in the trenches that received no offers from other programs.
Watch the below and tell me that Allen isn’t hampered by atrocious talent Allen vs Iowa - ( New Window )
Who doesn't make a bowl game these days?
Lots of first round prospects have been surrounded by poor talent and have still stood out as elite prospects. Still produced in HS and college.
Who did Eli have in Ole Miss? Who did Odell have throwing him the ball at LSU? Bleu chip prospects find a way to produce. They tilt the game. They consistently win their battles and make game changing plays against top competition.
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
He’s led two Wyoming squads to bowl games, which I believe is the first time that his been done in Laramie in quite a long time. Wyoming has brutal talent even relative to the MWC; they’ve regularly started true freshmen in the trenches that received no offers from other programs.
Watch the below and tell me that Allen isn’t hampered by atrocious talent Allen vs Iowa - ( New Window )
Who doesn't make a bowl game these days?
Lots of first round prospects have been surrounded by poor talent and have still stood out as elite prospects. Still produced in HS and college.
Who did Eli have in Ole Miss? Who did Odell have throwing him the ball at LSU? Bleu chip prospects find a way to produce. They tilt the game. They consistently win their battles and make game changing plays against top competition.
Allen hasn't done that. Ever.
Wyoming has been rolled this year and their offense anemic, in game in which they were favored, while Allen has been injured. While Allen was healthy the Cowboys were challenging for the conference. The delta in play from the quarterback position was clearly the difference.
Eli had Chris Collins and Michael “The Most Exciting Player in CFB” Espy. Neither did much outside of Oxford but they were awesome to watch at the time.
OBJ had Mettenberger as his QB, meaning that position was hardly devoid of talent (relative to the collegiate level).
The immortal Zach Mettenberger. One part of the dreaded Locker/Whitehurst/Mettenberger triumvirate. His negative TD/INT ratio and 2300 career passing yards are the stuff of legend.
The immortal Zach Mettenberger. One part of the dreaded Locker/Whitehurst/Mettenberger triumvirate. His negative TD/INT ratio and 2300 career passing yards are the stuff of legend.
Don’t throw shade at Clipboard Jesus (Whitehurst)!
thought this article was helpful in part, figured I'd share this part of it here.
How to Draft a QB, Part 5 - ( New Window )
This is why Darnold or Rosen and heck even Rudolph are the better prospects from the pro game. I like Jackson, Mayfield and Allen but throwing the ball should be options 1,2 &3, then run if you can.
Mettenberger wasn't a plus for Odell in college. Â
From pointing out your weirdo obsession on a thread where I was discussing a completely different player?
You're right. It's fucking weird and I become more amazed daily at just how obsessed you actually are with this 25 year old WR.
It's clear what your insinuation was - please explain how Landry or Beckham have anything to do with the current state of their teams while they're still on rookie deals. You clearly think they're holding their respective teams back somehow, otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment.
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it. It amuses me.
RE: RE: Mettenberger wasn't a plus for Odell in college. Â
From pointing out your weirdo obsession on a thread where I was discussing a completely different player?
You're right. It's fucking weird and I become more amazed daily at just how obsessed you actually are with this 25 year old WR.
It's clear what your insinuation was - please explain how Landry or Beckham have anything to do with the current state of their teams while they're still on rookie deals. You clearly think they're holding their respective teams back somehow, otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment.
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it. It amuses me.
Is it even worth it at this point? He's just going to yammer. Let miserable people lie.
Still the most exciting QB in this class for my money. He can throw the football. A lot of posters are getting stuck on the scrambling QB thing and think he's just going to be running wild on every other play like RG3.
Jackson is immensely talented and he's put up numbers against some pretty good defenses.
Perfect scenario for me would be moving down a few spots if we can find a taker, drafting Jackson and picking up an extra couple picks in the process.
If you ever have such a vindication for a player, trading down is not the answer. You can’t risk another team trading up and stealing the player. If the Giants like Jackson, take him number 2.
There are a lot of factors involved.. who you trade with, how far you move down, who is in front of you, etc.
The board is going to change a lot between now and April as well. A savvy GM could probably find a way to pull it off but again, there's no way of knowing now how things will unfold then.
If I was worried about him getting snaked, I'd just draft him where we were - but it's possible there will be an opportunity to add an asset or two. Especially if the Giants feel Jackson and another QB are close and decide they'd be happy with either.
trading down is a scary proposition, especially when the guy you traded down for gets taken before you pick.
Quote:
His completion percentage is on par with a lot of former first round QBs
Just for context, Tim Tebow completed 70% of his passes at Florida. Does anyone want to argue that he was accurate?
You can't compare college completion %'s with the NFL. Spread offenses are one-read, one-route offenses that most college defenses have trouble closing on. The NFL is so much faster, and windows are much smaller.
Petrinos offense is closer to a pro style than a spread. There’s plenty of multi read plays in Louisville’s offensive scheme.
I’m not comparing them to the NFL I’m comparing them to other QBs coming out of college
Quote:
In comment 13737702 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
Watch the below and tell me that Allen isn’t hampered by atrocious talent
Allen vs Iowa - ( New Window )
Don't put words in my mouth.
I said Jackson's understanding of what will be expected of him at the next level is rudimentary. Underdeveloped. It isn't because he's black. It's because he hasn't been asked to do it in college. I've said the same thing of Allen and Webb. They're underdeveloped and projects too.
Quote:
In comment 13737747 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13737702 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
He’s led two Wyoming squads to bowl games, which I believe is the first time that his been done in Laramie in quite a long time. Wyoming has brutal talent even relative to the MWC; they’ve regularly started true freshmen in the trenches that received no offers from other programs.
Watch the below and tell me that Allen isn’t hampered by atrocious talent Allen vs Iowa - ( New Window )
Why doesn’t Jackson get the same excuses? Relative to the teams he was playing Louisville’s talent level on offense was poor. Him and maybe one of the WRs are NFL caliber talent, going against defenses that are going to put multiple Day one and day two picks into the nfl the next few years.
You can also watch Allen’s games and see him make atrocious decisions at times. There’s no sign of an elite QB bringing up the guys around him. Elite tools? Sure. But not a elite QB traits.
Quote:
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He isn't at Bama and he isn't in Auburn. His stats and tape are what they are. Dynamic arm. Nice size and mobility. Long stretches where he looks like he just walked into the game off the street.
Quote:
In comment 13737747 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13737702 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
He’s led two Wyoming squads to bowl games, which I believe is the first time that his been done in Laramie in quite a long time. Wyoming has brutal talent even relative to the MWC; they’ve regularly started true freshmen in the trenches that received no offers from other programs.
Watch the below and tell me that Allen isn’t hampered by atrocious talent Allen vs Iowa - ( New Window )
Who doesn't make a bowl game these days?
Lots of first round prospects have been surrounded by poor talent and have still stood out as elite prospects. Still produced in HS and college.
Who did Eli have in Ole Miss? Who did Odell have throwing him the ball at LSU? Bleu chip prospects find a way to produce. They tilt the game. They consistently win their battles and make game changing plays against top competition.
Allen hasn't done that. Ever.
Quote:
In comment 13737765 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13737747 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13737702 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
But I don't view Allen or Jackson as first round QBs, but for different reasons.
Allen simply is well behind the curve as a game manager. Yes, he can throw the ball out of the stadium. So could Kyle Boller. So could Jeff George. He has never picked his team up on his shoulders and carried them for any stretch of games. He's far too frequently plays like a poor QB.
What Allen was behind was a patchwork OL; and losing key skill players from the year prior.
Can you really say with a straight face that Allen couldn't light it up behind Oklahoma's offense? Bama's? Georgia? Auburn? Etc...
He’s also facing inferior competition. If Allen was an elite QB prospect his numbers and film should show no matter who he lost. He makes a lot of bad decisions on the field.
He’s led two Wyoming squads to bowl games, which I believe is the first time that his been done in Laramie in quite a long time. Wyoming has brutal talent even relative to the MWC; they’ve regularly started true freshmen in the trenches that received no offers from other programs.
Watch the below and tell me that Allen isn’t hampered by atrocious talent Allen vs Iowa - ( New Window )
Who doesn't make a bowl game these days?
Lots of first round prospects have been surrounded by poor talent and have still stood out as elite prospects. Still produced in HS and college.
Who did Eli have in Ole Miss? Who did Odell have throwing him the ball at LSU? Bleu chip prospects find a way to produce. They tilt the game. They consistently win their battles and make game changing plays against top competition.
Allen hasn't done that. Ever.
Eli had Chris Collins and Michael “The Most Exciting Player in CFB” Espy. Neither did much outside of Oxford but they were awesome to watch at the time.
OBJ had Mettenberger as his QB, meaning that position was hardly devoid of talent (relative to the collegiate level).
How to Draft a QB, Part 5 - ( New Window )
How to Draft a QB, Part 5 - ( New Window )
This is why Darnold or Rosen and heck even Rudolph are the better prospects from the pro game. I like Jackson, Mayfield and Allen but throwing the ball should be options 1,2 &3, then run if you can.
Their pro teams aren't going anywhere either.
Quote:
That LSU team had Jarvis Landry AND Odell Beckham and didn't go anywhere.
Their pro teams aren't going anywhere either.
What does this have to do with either of them?
You really just can't help yourself. It's very odd.
You're right. It's fucking weird and I become more amazed daily at just how obsessed you actually are with this 25 year old WR.
It's clear what your insinuation was - please explain how Landry or Beckham have anything to do with the current state of their teams while they're still on rookie deals. You clearly think they're holding their respective teams back somehow, otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment.
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it. It amuses me.
Quote:
That LSU team had Jarvis Landry AND Odell Beckham and didn't go anywhere.
Their pro teams aren't going anywhere either.
Comical at this point
You're right. It's fucking weird and I become more amazed daily at just how obsessed you actually are with this 25 year old WR.
It's clear what your insinuation was - please explain how Landry or Beckham have anything to do with the current state of their teams while they're still on rookie deals. You clearly think they're holding their respective teams back somehow, otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment.
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it. It amuses me.
Is it even worth it at this point? He's just going to yammer. Let miserable people lie.
Quote:
In comment 13737376 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Still the most exciting QB in this class for my money. He can throw the football. A lot of posters are getting stuck on the scrambling QB thing and think he's just going to be running wild on every other play like RG3.
Jackson is immensely talented and he's put up numbers against some pretty good defenses.
Perfect scenario for me would be moving down a few spots if we can find a taker, drafting Jackson and picking up an extra couple picks in the process.
If you ever have such a vindication for a player, trading down is not the answer. You can’t risk another team trading up and stealing the player. If the Giants like Jackson, take him number 2.
There are a lot of factors involved.. who you trade with, how far you move down, who is in front of you, etc.
The board is going to change a lot between now and April as well. A savvy GM could probably find a way to pull it off but again, there's no way of knowing now how things will unfold then.
If I was worried about him getting snaked, I'd just draft him where we were - but it's possible there will be an opportunity to add an asset or two. Especially if the Giants feel Jackson and another QB are close and decide they'd be happy with either.
trading down is a scary proposition, especially when the guy you traded down for gets taken before you pick.