NFT: MLB Winter Meetings Day 3

Jeff Passan�
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News: Los Angeles Angels star Shohei Ohtani has a damaged ulnar collateral ligament in his pitching elbow, according to a physical obtained by Yahoo Sports.

all the clubs who met with Ohtani knew about that physical...it wasn't a surprise...

In comment 13738635 Mike in St. Louis said:

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all the clubs who met with Ohtani knew about that physical...it wasn't a surprise...

Not all the fans knew about it. It's news.

The teams that have shown the most interest thus far are the Cardinals, Diamondbacks, and Braves.

that fans don't know...

Cashman appears to be clearing the decks on the high cost, low impact players on the roster. Right now, only Ellsbury is arguably in that category. But, with the no-trade, his deal is a different animal. If he gets dealt, it will take time.

With that said, I wonder whether Cashman is going to turn his attention to moving some of the marginal guys who are arbitration eligible and deal for better depth guys. For example, Shreve and Romine are not exactly guarantees to make the team. Will his attention turn to finding their replacements and moving them?

What about the now extraneous pieces on the 40 man roster? The newly acquired Blash is really just a AAAA version of Judge and Stanton. Austin really has no role anymore. There are still a LOT of relievers. Does Cashman begin the process of moving these guys to open spaces for the guys who will need rule 5 protection this year- some of whom deserve to be added to the roster, like Chance Adams and Justus Sheffield?

Two-year deal. He will almost certainly miss the entire 2018 season rehabbing from TJ- and the deal is really about 2019.

He apparently doesn't want to leave. Who wants to stay on a team where they're rarely going to play?

MAKE IT HAPPEN.

to live in NY.

In comment 13738774 Greg from LI said:

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He apparently doesn't want to leave. Who wants to stay on a team where they're rarely going to play?

A guy that's getting older and getting paid a ton

In comment 13738782 GiantFilthy said:

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MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Anthopoulos said he wanted to improve the defense to help out the young pitchers. Having an OF with 3 CF's is a good start.

In comment 13738773 rich in DC said:

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Two-year deal. He will almost certainly miss the entire 2018 season rehabbing from TJ- and the deal is really about 2019.

Good for him. I hope he does well for the Twins. With that said, I'm glad he isn't a Yankee any more. So frustratingly inconsistent. Lights out one second, and terrible the next. If he could have only figure it all out, he could have been special.

In comment 13738799 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 13738782 GiantFilthy said: Quote: MAKE IT HAPPEN. Anthopoulos said he wanted to improve the defense to help out the young pitchers. Having an OF with 3 CF's is a good start.

Going to assume Yelich goes elsewhere and we end up with Prado. I love me some Prado. I want both guys though!

he can win the CF job back, especially with a new manager. I don't think it's the most outlandish idea. Hicks has put together one good season, and it wasn't even a full season. Ellsbury wasn't bad last season, just overpaid.

In comment 13738773 rich in DC said:

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Two-year deal. He will almost certainly miss the entire 2018 season rehabbing from TJ- and the deal is really about 2019.

The Cubs made a similar move. They signed Drew Smyly to a 2 year deal. Smyly will likely miss most if not all of the 2018 season due to TJ surgery.

the fabled Pineda/Montero trade finally comes to an official close.

Hicks is my preference for CF. But that's likely where Ellsbury's head is at. Players believe in their own ability, and he likely doesn't want to leave a WS favorite.

In comment 13738811 GiantFilthy said:

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Going to assume Yelich goes elsewhere and we end up with Prado. I love me some Prado. I want both guys though!

I am fine with Prado if they are willing to take back a package of Aaron Blair and Jason Hursh.

yes he's 4-5 years older than Yelich/Ozuna, but it's not like he's ancient. His defense last year was down but was comparable to Yelich in CF.

Cain and Kinsler at the top of the order for the Mets would both be very big upgrades.

and Nicasio both off the board. So much for those quick strike Metsies lol

in talks to bring back Holland.

even have to trade for Ian Kinsler? The farm system has no depth and trading any worthwhlie player on the MLB roster would just open up another hole.

FWIW, Kinsler had a 91 wRC last year and turns 36 next season. Seems like a good bet to spend some time on the DL or underperform IMO. PASS

but has been underrated for a while and would be a legit upgrade. I'd be on board with that. Wouldn't mind signing Cain and Moustakos and rolling the dice with Flores, Rivera, Cecchini at 2B.

In comment 13738860 Metnut said:

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but has been underrated for a while and would be a legit upgrade. I'd be on board with that. Wouldn't mind signing Cain and Moustakos and rolling the dice with Flores, Rivera, Cecchini at 2B.

Sounds like they have given up on Cecchini, Rivera might be out until mid-season.

He will be 32 and much of his value is tied to his speed and defense. His defense did decline slightly last year so I would be very hesitant to give him a big deal.

maybe trying to add Greene to Kinsler trade.

You just know this trade will happen and is likely sending Gimenez, Szapucki, Dunn, etc. back for a middle reliever and a relic at 2B.

and he was a 5.1 war player at age 34 when they went to the WS. And one of their best hitters over those playoffs. He wasn't an ideal signing but sometimes you have to roll the dice on non-ideal candidates if you're not willing to pay top dollar for players in their prime.

Kinsler has played 140 games for 7 straight seasons and has legitimate 4 or 5 war upside. He can be a very good leadoff hitter.

Cain hasn't been as durable but he similarly has 4-5 war upside and is still one of the best CF in baseball.

It's hard to fathom better somewhat realistic alternatives. And they've allegedly had conversations with both, though they've downplayed CF as a need.

@Mets if Burdi or McCullough are there, roll the dice ! #Mets
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13738878 Eric on Li said:

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and he was a 5.1 war player at age 34 when they went to the WS. And one of their best hitters over those playoffs. He wasn't an ideal signing but sometimes you have to roll the dice on non-ideal candidates if you're not willing to pay top dollar for players in their prime. Kinsler has played 140 games for 7 straight seasons and has legitimate 4 or 5 war upside. He can be a very good leadoff hitter. Cain hasn't been as durable but he similarly has 4-5 war upside and is still one of the best CF in baseball. It's hard to fathom better somewhat realistic alternatives. And they've allegedly had conversations with both, though they've downplayed CF as a need.

The Mets didn't really have much of a conversation with Cain. They spoke to Kusnick about all of his clients back in mid-November (which is common, get preliminary prices for agents clients), reportedly have not discussed Cain beyond that. That's about a month ago so unless his price bottoms out he likely isn't on the radar.

In comment 13738892 DanMetroMan said:

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@Mets if Burdi or McCullough are there, roll the dice ! #Mets Link - ( New Window )

I would be shocked if Burdi gets past Atlanta. They have done this the previous two years acquiring talented injured pitchers who are out for the season(Jacob Lindgren and Jesse Biddle) Burdi has closer upside and was reportedly the player the Braves were targeting in the Jaime Garcia trade but then he suffered the injury.

or has this years Winter Meetings been relatively quiet compared to previous years?

I just find it bizarre that they would consider Bruce (who would either force Conforto to CF again or Smith to the bench to play) and not Cain. Even if they're that sold on Lagares he's always hurt.

Jerry Crasnick‏Verified account
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The #Angels are �definitely interested� in Ian Kinsler, says a source. There�s a sense that Kinsler has emerged as Billy Eppler�s prime 2B target, but #Tigers aren�t close to a trade at the moment. #Mets, #Brewers and #SFGiants have also talked to Detroit about Kinsler.

winter meetings aren't for the weak.

Have signed Pineda to a two year deal.

over the last few weeks that the Yankees may have Gleyber Torres start the year at AAA even if he is ready to take advantage of some of the rules:
1. If he is not on the opening day roster they can delay his arbitration eligibility date a year
2. If the Yankees leave Torres in Triple-A until June 1, they�ll push his free agency eligibility back a full season

i dont give a fuck about the salary. He would have been perfect to take over at closer and let Familia test FA.

Mets will miss on Kinsler/Greene and settle for Jay Bruce at 1b and bring back Neil Walker so they can bring in a veteran SP FA like CC

fuck the Wilpons

Marc Carig‏Verified account
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One day after whiffing on a pair of their top relief targets, the Mets pivoted to righthander Anthony Swarzak. In agreement on 2 years,$14m sources tell Newsday

Nice p/u

In comment 13738996 CGiants07 said:

Quote:

Marc Carig‏Verified account @MarcCarig 2m2 minutes ago More One day after whiffing on a pair of their top relief targets, the Mets pivoted to righthander Anthony Swarzak. In agreement on 2 years,$14m sources tell Newsday

I am fine with this move. Only 2 years, not 3, and the extra $2 Million per year in salary for those 2 years could allow us more elsewhere

Is solid at that rate but it comes with 1 year of success despite being 32. Price reflects that.

Swarzak was fantastic last year. Not in line with the rest of his career, though - so we better hope he figured something out last season and that it wasn't a one-off.

That said - I like it. It's something.

A LOT more work to do.. but I can get on board with this.

was his (Swarzak) pitching coach in Cleveland

In comment 13738787 BigBlue4You09 said:

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In comment 13738774 Greg from LI said: Quote: He apparently doesn't want to leave. Who wants to stay on a team where they're rarely going to play? A guy that's getting older and getting paid a ton

But he'll get paid regardless. If he doesn't want to play, just retire.

be clear I like the Swarzak move. Just pointing out it comes with pretty substantial risk given his track record. The Mets signed him to be a key piece of the pen (7 million per) so they need him to be 2017 Swarzak and not what came before.

good gamble on upside at a low price.

still pursue Reed.

Familia, Ramos, Reed, Blevins, Swarzak is a bullpen you can win with. now as for the rotation, a lot of finger crossing and praying.

I did read that Familia is not the closer so no clue who is Ramos hasn't proven he can consistently close.

A couple write-ups from FG:

Quote:

Anthony Swarzak | White Sox I guess Swarzak is lit as hell now? He has added a tick of velo, focused more on his slider (45% FB/55% SL usage), and just taken off with the White Sox. Sure, his .105 BABIP and 100% LOB rates won�t hold, but make no mistake about it: his surge is skill supported. His 36% strikeout rate is 20th among relievers (min. 10 IP) while his insane 20% swinging strike rate is fifth! He�s walking a career-low 3% of batters and only four guys have gotten hits off of him. The key, as he told MLB.com�s Scott Merkin, has been manipulating his slider: "I�m throwing a few different ones right now. I have the one for a strike that�s a little bigger. I have the two-strike one, and I�m shortening up a little bit on it." Even in a small, just under 20-inning sample, it�s hard not believe in what Swarzak is doing because the magnitude of it is so overwhelming. This isn�t the pitcher who brought a 15% K rate and 4.52 ERA into the season.

And the other.

Quote:

What makes Andrew Miller so good? There�s a variety of contributing reasons � there�s the velocity, the fastball, the slider, the delivery, the body, the mentality, and so on and so on. Every part of Miller comes together to make him nearly perfect. But, what�s the mechanism? What�s the statistical explanation for Miller�s dominance? In essence, he warps the hitter�s idea of the strike zone. Hitters don�t swing at many strikes, and they swing at too many balls. They have the statistical discipline of bad-hitting pitchers. So far this season, Miller has gotten opponents to swing at pitches out of the zone 43% of the time. Once again, that�s super high � by O-Swing%, Miller ranks second in baseball. There�s one guy in front of him. That one guy is Anthony Swarzak?

I still think they should be in on another guy like Reed or Joe Smith, but this is a good gamble at the price.
One Guy Gets More Chases Than Andrew Miller - ( New Window )

In comment 13739046 pjcas18 said:

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still pursue Reed. Familia, Ramos, Reed, Blevins, Swarzak is a bullpen you can win with. now as for the rotation, a lot of finger crossing and praying. I did read that Familia is not the closer so no clue who is Ramos hasn't proven he can consistently close.

Agreed. I think the comments about closer were more that they are going to let multiple guys close, and not exclusively rely on Familia like Collins did. Which makes sense since they have Ramos. Familia needing to save 50+ games is not ideal. Collins ran him into the ground the past few years.

In comment 13739046 pjcas18 said:

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still pursue Reed. Familia, Ramos, Reed, Blevins, Swarzak is a bullpen you can win with. now as for the rotation, a lot of finger crossing and praying. I did read that Familia is not the closer so no clue who is Ramos hasn't proven he can consistently close.

PJ,
Callaway suggested having no closer and going with matchups not that familia would be removed from the end of games. Sandy later backtracked and said it�s one such option is no set closer

I like the idea of not necessarily forcing one specific guy into a closer role. Familia should still see most of the sv opps but I've felt for a few years now that it's sort of an antiquated approach to be so rigid about one guy always pitching the 9th inning.

Obviously if it's an elite closer like Jansen, that's one thing - but I like the way the Indians use Miller, who is their best reliever, but not their closer.

Callaway is talking about using your best relievers in the highest leverage spots. It had nothing to do with workload. The idea would be seeing a guy like Familia face a big hitter or 2 in the 7th if need be ba waiting until the final 3 outs. The RP workload may even increase.

what we've seen with the Indians the last 2 postseasons and how they utilized Miller?

Whip post May was 1.28 so presumably hitters caught on to his �new� weapon. Hopefully 1. He adjusts 2. NL hitters take time to do so

Not just postseason - Cody Allen is their closer. They use Miller as a wild card in middle innings when the highest leverage spots present themselves. It's a good strategy if you have a capable closer like Allen even if Allen isn't their best reliever.

I think eventually, most teams will use a more flexible approach like this rather than having these specific guys drilled into "set up" and "closer" roles where managers won't use them anywhere else.

In comment 13739062 Chris684 said:

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what we've seen with the Indians the last 2 postseasons and how they utilized Miller?

"Fluid roles depending on the situation" was how I took the comments.

In comment 13739065 arcarsenal said:

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Not just postseason - Cody Allen is their closer. They use Miller as a wild card in middle innings when the highest leverage spots present themselves. It's a good strategy if you have a capable closer like Allen even if Allen isn't their best reliever. I think eventually, most teams will use a more flexible approach like this rather than having these specific guys drilled into "set up" and "closer" roles where managers won't use them anywhere else.

Right - this is how I understood it.

doing about first base? Not feeling the warm and fuzzies over here with Dom Smith.

You cant succeed in this league without a adequate hitting first baseman.

In comment 13739073 Rory said:

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doing about first base? Not feeling the warm and fuzzies over here with Dom Smith. You cant succeed in this league without a adequate hitting first baseman.

Reportedly interested in Lind and horrific Napoli/Moreland.

season until the guy like AJ Ramos blows multiple games then they'll decide they need a reliable guy who can withstand the pressure and consistently close out games.

I don't think it's a rigid approach to have a closer, not everyone is suited to close. Maybe if you have multiple legit closer options like the Yankees (Chapman, Robertson, and Betances) then it's more realistic.

and it cost the Indians and almost cost the Cubs in the 2016 WS.

Miller and Chapman came in to pitch in "important" situations, shit the bed, and then they had to patchwork the rest of the game.

Cardinals �making progress� on acquiring Marcell Ozuna

Saving the extra $2M per.

I really wish they would make a play on Hosmer. I know he is a Boras guy and the Mets are the butt of all his jokes, but he would really be a great addition to a pretty average lineup.

Well, it's basically impossible to go through an entire season and nail your BP usage every time - eventually someone's going to blow a game, you just hope it doesn't happen in a critical spot and you try to maximize your odds.

I'm not advocating just using guys at random every night - I just don't think you necessarily have to designate one guy for a specific place and be resistant towards using him anywhere else.

The Mets shouldn't be against using Familia in the 7th inning if there's a pivotal point in the game where they feel he gives them the best chance of escaping a jam and keeping the game in their favor.

In comment 13739080 figgy2989 said:

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Saving the extra $2M per. I really wish they would make a play on Hosmer. I know he is a Boras guy and the Mets are the butt of all his jokes, but he would really be a great addition to a pretty average lineup.

Sandy and Boras are friendly. The public stuff is for show. The reason Hosmer wouldn't be a Met is straight economics not any issues with the agent.

Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports reports that the Rockies are closing in on a deal to bring back Greg Holland.

Looking at the names available, Franmil Reyes is intriguing even if he is coming off a broken hamate bone in Arizonal Fall League. Also, Kohl Stewart was a high draft pick for a reason and his groundball tendencies can work out of the bullpen (plus gives the Mets another option if a starter gets hurt)

In comment 13739026 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 13738787 BigBlue4You09 said: Quote: In comment 13738774 Greg from LI said: Quote: He apparently doesn't want to leave. Who wants to stay on a team where they're rarely going to play? A guy that's getting older and getting paid a ton But he'll get paid regardless. If he doesn't want to play, just retire.

IMO, he's playing hardball. If he puts the yanks in a position of having to cut him, then he still collects what the Yanks owe him, plus what ever he can get signing with another team.

In comment 13739084 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Well, it's basically impossible to go through an entire season and nail your BP usage every time - eventually someone's going to blow a game, you just hope it doesn't happen in a critical spot and you try to maximize your odds. I'm not advocating just using guys at random every night - I just don't think you necessarily have to designate one guy for a specific place and be resistant towards using him anywhere else. The Mets shouldn't be against using Familia in the 7th inning if there's a pivotal point in the game where they feel he gives them the best chance of escaping a jam and keeping the game in their favor.

I don't disagree in theory and certainly I'm not more qualified than Callaway to disagree even if I wanted to, just sounds a lot like the cliched "closer by committee" approach teams use when they don't have a legit closer and/or they have an injury to the closer.

getting to the 9th with a lead is the most important thing, but if they guy you have on the mound in the 9th can't seal the deal, what's the point?

I love the fact the Mets at least have a guy who thinks in the dugout this year and will not be predictable and traditional in his approach.

In comment 13739113 Mike in NY said:

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Looking at the names available, Franmil Reyes is intriguing even if he is coming off a broken hamate bone in Arizonal Fall League. Also, Kohl Stewart was a high draft pick for a reason and his groundball tendencies can work out of the bullpen (plus gives the Mets another option if a starter gets hurt)

Tomorrow morning.

In comment 13739117 Beer Man said:

Quote:

In comment 13739026 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 13738787 BigBlue4You09 said: Quote: In comment 13738774 Greg from LI said: Quote: He apparently doesn't want to leave. Who wants to stay on a team where they're rarely going to play? A guy that's getting older and getting paid a ton But he'll get paid regardless. If he doesn't want to play, just retire. IMO, he's playing hardball. If he puts the yanks in a position of having to cut him, then he still collects what the Yanks owe him, plus what ever he can get signing with another team.

Plus, if he retires he doesn't get paid. Not wanting to play (if that's the case, I have no idea) <> not wanting to get paid.

In comment 13739122 pjcas18 said:

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Quote: Ken Rosenthal Retweeted Jesse Sanchez‏Verified account @JesseSanchezMLB 3m3 minutes ago Source: Marcel Ozuna has been traded to the Cardinals. The deal is pending a physical.

Good pickup for the Cards. Will be interested to see what level prospects they gave up.

The cards do need
More offense

Next

In comment 13739154 spike said:

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Next

Certainly won't be headed here - that's for sure.

would cost Rosario (plus). Not happening.

The Marlins really know how to alienate their fans.

One of the best young outfields in baseball with Ozuna/Yelich/Stanton and they're going to wind up trading all 3 away.

I have no idea what the endgame ever is for that franchise. They're pathetic.

it's going to be hard to also get a Rosario-type.

In comment 13739173 Eric on Li said:

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it's going to be hard to also get a Rosario-type.

Teams are asking about Prado independently (namely the Braves). Unlike Stanton Yelich has an incredible contract. If they deal him they will get a bounty. The Mets don't have that to offer.

is making the same salary in 2018 as Anthony Swarzak, and 2.75 million less over the next 2 seasons. THAT's how good his contract is.

but the Marlins are not operating in normal fashion by any standard. They may be getting calls on Prado, but I very much doubt any team would take on his full contract for free.

Quote:

Barry Jackson‏Verified account @flasportsbuzz 5m5 minutes ago More Disgraceful MLB allowed underfinanced group to buy team.Disgraceful Marlins won't say real reason for slashing:investors told no cashcalls

would even be available. There is no logical reason to deal him because he's young enough to be part of any rebuild. But the word coming out of all the top reporters in Miami around their financial situation makes it sound like they are in a slashing mode without parallel. I guess we'll see. It sounds like Ozuna brought back a couple of pitchers and a position player.

In comment 13739190 Eric on Li said:

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would even be available. There is no logical reason to deal him because he's young enough to be part of any rebuild. But the word coming out of all the top reporters in Miami around their financial situation makes it sound like they are in a slashing mode without parallel. I guess we'll see. It sounds like Ozuna brought back a couple of pitchers and a position player.

Ozuna has 2 years left, Yelich has 5. Yelich's contract is roughly 100 million in surplus value. If Yelich were a FA he'd be looking at 150+ million. Everyone is reporting the price on Yelich is far greater than Ozuna (as it should be)

Joel Sherman‏Verified account
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#Mets have at least been curious if not aggressive on Frazier, who could make Cabrera more versatile to play a few places rather than lock in at 3b, and serve as righty platoon/insurance for Dom Smith at 1b.

I agree. Obviously the Marlins are shedding salary like crazy but there is zero reason to throw Yelich away while doing so. I'm hoping Atlanta uses Prado's salary dump as a way to talk down the Yelich price a bit. Sure seems like the Marlins would be dumb enough to listen.

to be in Ellsbury's shoes. I'm getting to the end of my career and I have another shot to win a World Series while getting paid a lot.

A better question is Why would he want to leave?

for Prado, if they eat half to move him, that's still 14 million saved. There is no need to lessen the value of Yelich to do so. He's their golden goose of trade value.

Joel Sherman‏Verified account
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As many as 10 teams have engaged on Todd Frazier for 3b, 1b and most interesting, some 2b. Frazier played 2b so often in #Yankees shifts that some teams think the minor league SS can handle that.

1:58 PM - 13 Dec 2017

one of the pieces to Miami, MONSTER pure stuff. Well see if he puts it together.

unless they need dump a contract they couldn't dump otherwise.

In comment 13739211 DanMetroMan said:

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one of the pieces to Miami, MONSTER pure stuff. Well see if he puts it together.

If he does, they'll just trade him.

95-99 as a SP, command comes and goes. Likely ends up a reliever but still time, could be a big time talent but is raw. Marlins wanted him in the Stanton deal so no shock here.

Sam Dykstra‏
@SamDykstraMiLB
1m1 minute ago
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Sandy Alcantara gives the #Marlins another high-octane arm. Averaged 98.4 mph with his fastball in eight MLB relief appearances. Secondaries are behind, and his control can waver plenty. But he's got the arm to dream on.

specifically for the new ownership, if Jose hadnt passed away?

Would they try to improve their team?

In comment 13739227 Chris684 said:

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specifically for the new ownership, if Jose hadnt passed away? Would they try to improve their team?

Would have traded him for sure. Package would have been huge but they are headed toward a total reset.

for a young all star who can play CF and just hit 37 homers? Law had him 7th in their system, MLB pipeline has him 9th. Doesn't appear to be in the top 100 anywhere.

In comment 13739229 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

for a young all star who can play CF and just hit 37 homers? Law had him 7th in their system, MLB pipeline has him 9th. Doesn't appear to be in the top 100 anywhere.

BA's new list had him 4th.

has him 5th

put it this way, I have my doubts the Marlins develop him but I'd deal any Mets P prospect for him without giving it a ton of thought.


clarkspencer
✔
@clarkspencer
Scout says Alcantara has "big arm," about a year away, projects as No. 2 starter. https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/941022831227363328 �

now saying Holland to Rockies is NOT done.

other than Peterson.

SURPRISE, Ariz. � Spike Owen spent 13 seasons in the big leagues and saw thousands of different pitchers. Yet when asked how many he can recall with fastballs like the one Cardinals righthander Sandy Alcantara showed off on Monday afternoon, he didn�t hesitate.

�Five, tops,� he said.

In his second start of the fall, Alcantara, a 22-year-old who made his major league debut late this past season, sat between 96-99 with his fastball and touched 101 mph twice. He coupled the pitch with an improved curveball and a swing-and-miss changeup over the course of three hitless innings against visiting Scottsdale.

Alcantara is the second Fall League pitcher in as many days to touch triple-digits after Baltimore lefty Tanner Scott lit up the radar gun on Saturday against Peoria.

�He was outstanding,� Owen said. �He had the good sinker going, but in the first couple of innings he was going a little more offspeed and working on his offspeed stuff, which looked good, but then came out and established the fastball. And he�s got a live arm and has really good stuff. It was impressive.�

Alcantara allowed just a walk over his three innings while striking out one batter. He threw 24 of his 40 pitches for strikes before yielding to Rays righthander Spencer Jones in the fourth.

The velocity on Alcantara�s fastball is special on its own, but the ease with which he brings it sets him apart.

�It�s so smooth. It�s an easy 101,� Owen said. �It�s an electric arm. He�s fun to watch pitch.�


Read more at https://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/sandy-alcantara-brings-heat/#mVKgRfcOt8vE1AJI.99

In comment 13739249 Eric on Li said:

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other than Peterson.

Yeah but the Marlins reportedly were asking for pitching so the Mets had no shot if that's the case.

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an a's trade for stephen piscotty from cardinals is "edging closer" via @susanslusser. @Ken_Rosenthal connected those 2 teams earlier.

In comment 13739198 GiantFilthy said:

Quote:

I agree. Obviously the Marlins are shedding salary like crazy but there is zero reason to throw Yelich away while doing so. I'm hoping Atlanta uses Prado's salary dump as a way to talk down the Yelich price a bit. Sure seems like the Marlins would be dumb enough to listen.

Yeah agreed I discussed taking on Prado's full deal and another contract like Ziegler (1 year $9 million) or Edinson Volquez (1 year $13 million) in order to drive down the asking price for Yelich. The Braves have done a very good job over the years of turning washed up veteran bullpen arms into solid performers. If Ziegler bounces back and plays well he could bring back a decent lottery ticket at the deadline.

It will be interesting to see if anyone is willing to take on Wei-Yin Chen's contract in a package with Yelich. If so the Marlins will likely seriously consider moving Yelich.

Joel Sherman‏Verified account
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Alcantara is big piece going to #Marlins in 4-player package, hear other 3 are minor leaguers of less ilk #Stlcards

In comment 13739252 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13739249 Eric on Li said: Quote: other than Peterson. Yeah but the Marlins reportedly were asking for pitching so the Mets had no shot if that's the case.

Unless the Mets got creative...so you are correct, no shot.

says the Mets did offer Shaw 3 years before he signed

In comment 13739255 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 13739198 GiantFilthy said: Quote: I agree. Obviously the Marlins are shedding salary like crazy but there is zero reason to throw Yelich away while doing so. I'm hoping Atlanta uses Prado's salary dump as a way to talk down the Yelich price a bit. Sure seems like the Marlins would be dumb enough to listen. Yeah agreed I discussed taking on Prado's full deal and another contract like Ziegler (1 year $9 million) or Edinson Volquez (1 year $13 million) in order to drive down the asking price for Yelich. The Braves have done a very good job over the years of turning washed up veteran bullpen arms into solid performers. If Ziegler bounces back and plays well he could bring back a decent lottery ticket at the deadline. It will be interesting to see if anyone is willing to take on Wei-Yin Chen's contract in a package with Yelich. If so the Marlins will likely seriously consider moving Yelich.

Stop stealing my fictional met trades.

In comment 13739268 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

says the Mets did offer Shaw 3 years before he signed

Just a guess, but I bet the 3rd year was some form of an option.

of weird how quiet Addison Reed's market has been. It's possible his ask is significantly more than these other guys since he has closer on his resume.

.

In comment 13739271 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 13739268 DanMetroMan said: Quote: says the Mets did offer Shaw 3 years before he signed Just a guess, but I bet the 3rd year was some form of an option.

Very possible, Carig didn't really go into detail.

which makes sense even if he wants out. The only reason to trade him is if you have to because of $. There is literally no other reason.

�Source confirms Marlins have no plans to trade Christian Yelich despite trades of Giancarlo Stanton, Dee Gordon and Marcell Ozuna.�

will keep the fans happy or they are not satisfied with the offers they have received so far.

Jon Heyman‏Verified account
@JonHeyman
2m2 minutes ago
More
Padres are engaging in trade talks for headley and solarte

year. Kahnle, Minor, Morrow, ect are all just basically coming off one year and are still viewed as good options. I�m pleased.

Relievers by fWAR, 2017:
1. Jansen 3.6
2. Kimbrel 3.3
3. Osuna 3.0
4. Knebel 2.8
5. Neshek 2.5
6. Green 2.3
7. Miller 2.3
8. Swarzak 2.2
9. Minor 2.1
10. Kahnle 2.1

would go over a lot better if they'd actually add someone of relevance. If they want to wait out the last few good relievers left on the FA or trade markets, or even pick someone in the rule 5, fine. They have enormous holes in the IF and OF, can they get a little aggressive and fill 1 of them?

Bill Brink‏Verified account
@BrinkPG
]
The Pirates are gathering names of young, controllable players from the Yankees for a possible Gerrit Cole deal, but nothing close. Yankees also looking at Michael Fulmer, Chris Archer.

Swarzak signing in isolation but the entire offseason is Swarzek, Bruce and Kipnis or something like that then the fans should have pitchforks.

If you think u r getting better than that you are crazy

one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole?

In comment 13739507 Metnut said:

Quote:

Swarzak signing in isolation but the entire offseason is Swarzek, Bruce and Kipnis or something like that then the fans should have pitchforks.

That's exactly what we're going to get. Book it.

in working out a trade for Ellsbury. Kinda a 50/50 salary agreement. Would fill a need at CF with a proven OF

A sub-2 WAR player making 20M a year for 3 more seasons? I'd pass.

In comment 13739537 Rory said:

Quote:

in working out a trade for Ellsbury. Kinda a 50/50 salary agreement. Would fill a need at CF with a proven OF

Ellsbury would be a good fit for the Mets, but even at 50% of his cost he's probably too expensive for their budget.

In comment 13739537 Rory said:

Quote:

in working out a trade for Ellsbury. Kinda a 50/50 salary agreement. Would fill a need at CF with a proven OF

They won't. It doesn't make much sense on their end as Lagares is probably a better option anyway not to mention Conforto looked better than expected there and he could move back there if they find another viable option in RF as I believe Nimmo is a 4th outfielder.

In comment 13739517 DaddyM89 said:

Quote:

one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole?

I hope they can keep Sheffield. If they can get it done without including Torres, Florial, Sheffield, Abreu, Andujar, and Medina I'll be a happy camper. Maybe Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (not Mr. Tate of McMann & Tate, but Dillon Tate). Those are four excellent prospects, but they can't expect all their trades to be as painless as the one for Stanton.

In comment 13739172 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

The Marlins really know how to alienate their fans. One of the best young outfields in baseball with Ozuna/Yelich/Stanton and they're going to wind up trading all 3 away. I have no idea what the endgame ever is for that franchise. They're pathetic.

They should move to Nashville or Portland

so I'm of the opinion that CF is almost as big of a need as 2nd base. They don't have a lead-off hitter and they need at least 1 more middle of the order bat. Fitting together all of the puzzle pieces at once is really hard so I think the only way to approach filling holes is to get aggressive for the best players possible (that's why I'd start by trying to give up whatever it takes to get Yelich). If they truly don't have the pieces to get him, even taking on salary, Lorenzo Cain would be my fallback option. He could hit anywhere at the top of the order and by the numbers is still a very solid CF.

Erik Boland‏Verified account
@eboland11

Cashman: "We�re full frontal attack on all fronts. Obviously we need to address some things but patience is a virtue. We�ll see if something can get settled between now and tomorrow but, really, we have between now and spring training. We'll see."

Cain makes the most sense to me, personally.

I just know the Mets probably won't want to spend the money.

the team, which was already saddled with debt service, and they literally just need to purge payroll to gain liquidity and wipe out their outstanding long term debts. It sounds just as shameful as it was that the Wilponzis were able to keep the Mets and take on all their bridge loans at the expense of the team.

Sounds like the Angels are close to acquiring Kinsler. Not sure if that was posted already.

In comment 13739555 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Cain makes the most sense to me, personally. I just know the Mets probably won't want to spend the money.

I feel the same way, I just don't get it. Last year they had like $30M invested in Granderson and Bruce that was set to expire. By all accounts they need a positive voice in the clubhouse. And yet, they remain interested in Bruce? Something doesn't add up.

9. Sandy Alcantara, RHP
6. Magneuris Sierra, OF
13. Zac Gallen, RHP
NR. Daniel Castano, LHP

Obviously they have been really enamored with Alcantara and he's a big piece to them. Sierra is rated highly and sounds like a light hitting, great defense CF. Decent haul, but not as good as I would have expected for a top young OF with 2 years of control.

In comment 13739564 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 13739555 arcarsenal said: Quote: Cain makes the most sense to me, personally. I just know the Mets probably won't want to spend the money. I feel the same way, I just don't get it. Last year they had like $30M invested in Granderson and Bruce that was set to expire. By all accounts they need a positive voice in the clubhouse. And yet, they remain interested in Bruce? Something doesn't add up.

It feels like they've completely recoiled after the way last year went and are back in super-conservative mode.

Almost as if to say "see, we tried to spend more money last year and we still had a bad season where the park was half empty from August on"

It's pretty offensive, honestly.

Swarzak is a move I'm on board with - that's good. But that's the problem with the Mets. They take half-measures. That should be one of many other things that happen. After that move, they should have said "it's a small piece of the puzzle, we still have a lot of work to do."

Instead, it'll wind up being our 2nd "big" move of the offseason with someone like Jay Bruce being "the bat" they (re)acquire and they'll try to sell us on the team getting healthy and making another run.

In comment 13739544 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 13739517 DaddyM89 said: Quote: one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole? I hope they can keep Sheffield. If they can get it done without including Torres, Florial, Sheffield, Abreu, Andujar, and Medina I'll be a happy camper. Maybe Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (not Mr. Tate of McMann & Tate, but Dillon Tate). Those are four excellent prospects, but they can't expect all their trades to be as painless as the one for Stanton.

Yuck. Forget Cole - stop trying to suggest paying ace prices for a mid-rotation guy with NL stats. Fulmer should be the target.

trolling Mets fans I see

Michael Mayer @mikemayerMMO
now
Also mentioned signing Yoenis Cespedes when asked about acquiring big names, and said they do as many deals like that as anybody.

Sandy is literally too boring and too averse to just mixing it up that this painful patient approach settles in and has a paralysis effect when combined with the budget. Cashman has a huge budget, yes, but he also aggressively took shots on guys like Didi and Castro when their value was low. Those were guys we were rumored for numerous times and when they became available for peanuts we passed. Jed Lowrie is another guy who was their for the taking as a FA a few times and now we're trying to trade for him.

LOL, the only reason Cespedes was even brought back after 2015 is because he fell right into their laps. They were very much prepared to let him walk if another team had some in with a more competitive offer.

What a fucking clown show.

Castro, Chad Green. Yankees spend but also have a great GM.

In comment 13739575 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

Sandy is literally too boring and too averse to just mixing it up that this painful patient approach settles in and has a paralysis effect when combined with the budget. Cashman has a huge budget, yes, but he also aggressively took shots on guys like Didi and Castro when their value was low. Those were guys we were rumored for numerous times and when they became available for peanuts we passed. Jed Lowrie is another guy who was their for the taking as a FA a few times and now we're trying to trade for him.

Yep. The reason why the Yankees were able to rebuild so quickly and so efficiently is because they were willing to spend in the first place - it allowed them to flip players like Chapman and Miller at the deadline to re-stock their farm and they just went ahead and re-signed Chapman anyway.

So, just by spending to sign Chapman in the first place, they were able to acquire a top-shelf prospect in Torres and then wind up with Chapman back in the fold the very next season anyway.

Some teams are committed to winning - the Mets are committed to saving money.

an Angel

In comment 13739572 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 13739544 Milton said: Quote: In comment 13739517 DaddyM89 said: Quote: one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole? I hope they can keep Sheffield. If they can get it done without including Torres, Florial, Sheffield, Abreu, Andujar, and Medina I'll be a happy camper. Maybe Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (not Mr. Tate of McMann & Tate, but Dillon Tate). Those are four excellent prospects, but they can't expect all their trades to be as painless as the one for Stanton. Yuck. Forget Cole - stop trying to suggest paying ace prices for a mid-rotation guy with NL stats. Fulmer should be the target.

I'll leave it to Cashman to decide who presents the better bargain between Cole and Fullmer, but I suspect Fullmer will come at too high a cost. Certainly it would be at a higher cost than Cole. And while Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (Dillon Tate, not the advertising big whig) is a steep price, it still leaves the Yankees with their untouchables intact. It'll be impossible to pull off a deal for Fulmer without including at least one out of Torres, Florial, and Sheffield.

They didn't resign him (yet) but that move gave them a better roster for the time he was there and a piece that's probably going to bring back Fulmer. Their spending creates value. Buying low and rolling the dice creates value.

Sandy sits on his hands and pretends the budget isn't a problem. He acts surprised by FA values easily predicted by MLBTR. They shuffle players back and forth from their natural positions like Conforto (LF-> RF -> CF), and Flores, and Cespedes, instead of just putting them in their best positions and letting them succeed. Then repeat the same mistakes all over again the next offseason.

Step 1. Pass on the most obvious but expensive options (Hosmer/Moustakas/Davis).

Step 2. Pass on the most appealing tier 2 options (Morrow/Minor/McGee/Cain/Shaw). Also bemoan the over priced trade market and knock players that "didn't fit".

Step 3. Spend on the best of the not great options or take on salary dump type trades and put them into a role or position they aren't accustomed to (Bruce to 1B!).

Step 4. Rinse and repeat next year.

In comment 13739592 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

an Angel

just saw that. ughhhhhhhhhhhh

Buster Olney‏Verified account
@Buster_ESPN
4m4 minutes ago
More
Tigers do not have an Ian Kinsler deal with the Angels yet, according to sources.

In comment 13739507 Metnut said:

Quote:

Swarzak signing in isolation but the entire offseason is Swarzek, Bruce and Kipnis or something like that then the fans should have pitchforks.

I actually wouldnt hate that. Im actually worried we wont even get that. It's pretty clear we've wanted a late-inning reliever, a OF/1B type that's proven...preferably has pop to replace all that we've lost... and a 2B option. Those three arent elite options but they are in the upper echelon of available options left unless we are dreaming on JD Martinez and Hosmer. Those guys arent coming here.

He's likely to age better. Cain's value is tied to his Defense and Speed and he's already started his decline. Bruce's value is tied to his bat, and while he isnt an elite option, he just turned 30. It's a fair bet he'll maintain his production for a few years.

Conforto proved he can play CF and he's got Lagares backing him up. He's only 24. It wont kill him to play there for a few years.

✔
@Ken_Rosenthal
Plenty of middle infielders still available: #Indians� Kipnis; #Pirates� Harrison; #DBacks� Owings, Drury; #Phillies� Galvis, C. Hernandez; free agents Cozart, N. Walker. Kipnis owed $30.5M including $2.5M buyout on 2020 option - and he currently is without a position in CLE.

Selling the league MVP for pennies to tank for liquidity because they actually can't afford to own and operate a major league club

All while playing in a taxpayer-funded ballpark that only got approved with the understanding that ownership would cease these firesale and make a reasonable attempt at competitive baseball.

Four firesales in 20 years.

The new stadium looks hideous on TV but it's actually an awesome place. One of my favorite stadiums in baseball actually. The food is fantastic and you legitimately feel like you are watching a game in Havannah or something. The stadium is actually beautiful.

You just feel if they ever legitimately put a WS contender together that place would explode.


butttt. the announcers can still suck it. :)

I'd absolutely quit rooting for the Marlins if I were a fan. The Mets have made me get close - but the Marlins are really deplorable. They don't deserve any fans. When all of that taxpayer money went into the new park, those fans were promised there would be no more of this bullshit and now they're right back to dumping all of their best players for pennies on the dollar.

it's embarrassing.

Kinsler. lol


hris McCosky
@cmccosky
Two things could be snagging Kinsler deal to Angels; still haggling over return, or another team upped the ante (Mets?). My understanding was Kinsler agreed to waive no trade clause for Angels.

Buster Olney
✔
@Buster_ESPN
Although Tigers-Angels Kinsler deal hasn't crossed the finish line yet, Mets aren't currently engaged on Kinsler.

In comment 13739649 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Selling the league MVP for pennies to tank for liquidity because they actually can't afford to own and operate a major league club All while playing in a taxpayer-funded ballpark that only got approved with the understanding that ownership would cease these firesale and make a reasonable attempt at competitive baseball. Four firesales in 20 years.

two of the four fire sales came after WS wins, those two I'd live with. The last two would push my fandom to the limits.

especially this one when the team was just sold to a new ownership group.

�The #Angels are on the verge of acquiring a third baseman once they complete Ian Kinsler deal and have shown strong interest in #Padres Chase Headley�

official. Done.

Have multiple,offers for Machado, including the Yankees.
Machado Offers - ( New Window )

�Can confirm that the Angels have acquired Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in exchange for OF Troy Montgomery and RHP Wilkel Hernandez. Montgomery and Hernandez were ranked the Angels' No. 20 and 24 prospects, respectively, by @MLBPipeline�

Smith getting skinny.

They did a great job building a farm system, only to risk blue chip prospect on a rental? I could see Philly taking a chance - they have a ton of money to spend going forward.

In comment 13739705 BigBlue4You09 said:

Quote:

�Can confirm that the Angels have acquired Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in exchange for OF Troy Montgomery and RHP Wilkel Hernandez. Montgomery and Hernandez were ranked the Angels' No. 20 and 24 prospects, respectively, by @MLBPipeline�

I can see why Sandy was scared off. Better to sit tight.

2b

In comment 13739710 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 13739705 BigBlue4You09 said: Quote: �Can confirm that the Angels have acquired Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in exchange for OF Troy Montgomery and RHP Wilkel Hernandez. Montgomery and Hernandez were ranked the Angels' No. 20 and 24 prospects, respectively, by @MLBPipeline� I can see why Sandy was scared off. Better to sit tight.

Is that a joke? #20 and #24 prospect scared him off? He traded Merandy Gonzalez (Mets #5 prospect?) for 1 year and 2 months of AJ Ramos.

The $11M contract the Angels ate all of probably scared him more.

Kinsler wasn't coming here anyway and he's utterly mediocre. Mets will pull off a trade for a 2B.

Quote:

As the annual Winter Meeting continue to unfold, another superstar continues to receive a lot of buzz, and to the surprise of no one, the Yankees are in the center of the action. Over the last couple days speculation has surrounded the Orioles and their star third basemen Manny Machado, but now the rumors appear to be gaining real traction. It has long been speculated that the Yanks would be targeting signing Machado as a free agent after the 2018 season, but it appears they may be in play to acquire his services even sooner. According to Orioles� beat reporter Dan Clark, there are several offers on the table for Machado with the Yankees as one of the potential suitors. The Cardinals, who had made a big splash earlier today in acquiring Marcell Ozuna from the Marlins, are in on Machado, along with the Giants, White Sox and Phillies. Dan Clark ✔ @DanClarkSports Several offers are on the table for Manny Machado - Cardinals, White Sox, Yankees, Phillies and Giants. #Orioles 9:02 PM - Dec 13, 2017 At this time there has been no clarity as to just who the Yankees � or any of the other potential suitors have offered the Orioles for Machado, but the wheels certainly appear to be in motion and we will continue to provide updates on Machado as it continues to develop.

Link - ( New Window )

.

When you have to struggle so much to control your weight, that's an uphill climb against nature.

In comment 13739733 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13739710 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 13739705 BigBlue4You09 said: Quote: �Can confirm that the Angels have acquired Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in exchange for OF Troy Montgomery and RHP Wilkel Hernandez. Montgomery and Hernandez were ranked the Angels' No. 20 and 24 prospects, respectively, by @MLBPipeline� I can see why Sandy was scared off. Better to sit tight. Is that a joke? #20 and #24 prospect scared him off? He traded Merandy Gonzalez (Mets #5 prospect?) for 1 year and 2 months of AJ Ramos. The $11M contract the Angels ate all of probably scared him more.

I think Eric was being facetious - or at least that's how I interpreted.

If we were on Kinsler's no-trade list, I guess there's nothing we can do anyway. If I were any player with a no-trade option, this fucking dumpster franchise would be one of the first teams on it.

In comment 13739733 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13739710 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 13739705 BigBlue4You09 said: Quote: �Can confirm that the Angels have acquired Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in exchange for OF Troy Montgomery and RHP Wilkel Hernandez. Montgomery and Hernandez were ranked the Angels' No. 20 and 24 prospects, respectively, by @MLBPipeline� I can see why Sandy was scared off. Better to sit tight. Is that a joke? #20 and #24 prospect scared him off? He traded Merandy Gonzalez (Mets #5 prospect?) for 1 year and 2 months of AJ Ramos. The $11M contract the Angels ate all of probably scared him more.

It was a joke.

In comment 13739751 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

.

If they give them the best prospect package of the bunch, there's a chance. Or, they can let him go for nothing next year. Either way.

But there's legitimate ill will from the Orioles owner when it comes to the Yankess, and he's known to be petty and spiteful.

In comment 13739762 Dave in Hoboken said:

Quote:

In comment 13739751 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . If they give them the best prospect package of the bunch, there's a chance. Or, they can let him go for nothing next year. Either way.

Thing is, it won't be nothing. He's a face of the franchise, worth millions in revenue. Plus he's still a potential deadline deal to a contender, with a lot of leverage at that point.

In comment 13739755 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 13739733 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13739710 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 13739705 BigBlue4You09 said: Quote: �Can confirm that the Angels have acquired Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in exchange for OF Troy Montgomery and RHP Wilkel Hernandez. Montgomery and Hernandez were ranked the Angels' No. 20 and 24 prospects, respectively, by @MLBPipeline� I can see why Sandy was scared off. Better to sit tight. Is that a joke? #20 and #24 prospect scared him off? He traded Merandy Gonzalez (Mets #5 prospect?) for 1 year and 2 months of AJ Ramos. The $11M contract the Angels ate all of probably scared him more. I think Eric was being facetious - or at least that's how I interpreted. If we were on Kinsler's no-trade list, I guess there's nothing we can do anyway. If I were any player with a no-trade option, this fucking dumpster franchise would be one of the first teams on it.

I'm pretty sure the Angels were also on the NT list. It doesn't sound like that's the reason we didn't get him but who knows.

The thing that just continues to boggle the mind is that they were apparently motivated to act aggressively this year. Well why hasn't that happened? It seems to be a buyers market for the most part. Ozuna didn't bring back a crazy return. None of the FA contracts have been longer than 3 years yet I don't think.

In comment 13739764 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

In comment 13739762 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: In comment 13739751 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . If they give them the best prospect package of the bunch, there's a chance. Or, they can let him go for nothing next year. Either way. Thing is, it won't be nothing. He's a face of the franchise, worth millions in revenue. Plus he's still a potential deadline deal to a contender, with a lot of leverage at that point.

By 'nothing', I meant when his contract is up and he's a FA. If he leaves, BAL gets nothing back in return for him..

In comment 13739765 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 13739755 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 13739733 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13739710 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 13739705 BigBlue4You09 said: Quote: �Can confirm that the Angels have acquired Ian Kinsler from the Tigers in exchange for OF Troy Montgomery and RHP Wilkel Hernandez. Montgomery and Hernandez were ranked the Angels' No. 20 and 24 prospects, respectively, by @MLBPipeline� I can see why Sandy was scared off. Better to sit tight. Is that a joke? #20 and #24 prospect scared him off? He traded Merandy Gonzalez (Mets #5 prospect?) for 1 year and 2 months of AJ Ramos. The $11M contract the Angels ate all of probably scared him more. I think Eric was being facetious - or at least that's how I interpreted. If we were on Kinsler's no-trade list, I guess there's nothing we can do anyway. If I were any player with a no-trade option, this fucking dumpster franchise would be one of the first teams on it. I'm pretty sure the Angels were also on the NT list. It doesn't sound like that's the reason we didn't get him but who knows. The thing that just continues to boggle the mind is that they were apparently motivated to act aggressively this year. Well why hasn't that happened? It seems to be a buyers market for the most part. Ozuna didn't bring back a crazy return. None of the FA contracts have been longer than 3 years yet I don't think.

Yeah, I am pretty stumped - the Mets seem to operate in this weird way where they come up with a specific scenario that needs to play out for them to be aggressive or proactive, and if all of those chips don't fall the way they expect, it's like there's no alternative aside from "sit back and let the dust settle" - which, effectively takes you out of the running of most of the impact players.

Market dries up and we're left with scraps.

Going out and getting a player like Ozuna would have been something that created a little buzz - and it wouldn't have been majorly costly.

Instead, we sit on our hands and watch StL make it happen - and that's why the Cardinals are never out of the postseason for more than a year or two and we're the exact inverse.

I keep waiting for a light to go on with the Mets and hope someone in that front office will finally "get it" - but I seem to be wasting my time.

"the Mets seem to operate in this weird way where they come up with a specific scenario that needs to play out for them to be aggressive or proactive, and if all of those chips don't fall the way they expect, it's like there's no alternative aside from "sit back and let the dust settle" - which, effectively takes you out of the running of most of the impact players. "

They manufacture excuses to explain away why they don't spend.

I have plenty of issues with the spending - even still, I don't feel you necessarily have to spend 150M+ on payroll every year to be competitive - but if you're not, then you have to be very active and creative. You have to be more of a player in the IFA market, you have to constantly be scouring the wire.

Alderson seems glacially slow to the punch when the market starts moving quickly and he doesn't seem to be all that good at improvising on the fly.

Overwhelming pressure from the fans was the only thing that ever got Cespedes here in the first place and if it wasn't for his market being so underwhelming 2 years ago, he never even would have been back.

But to a cheap bastard like Angelos the revenue money - both from merchandise and from being able to tell fans you're not punting the season - may be worth more in dollar value than a Chance Adams and a Miguel Andujar. This is a guy whose GM sells IFA money, almost all of it, because he won't commit the money to build a Latin American scouting program. They are the only team without a significant presence down there.

In comment 13739779 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

But to a cheap bastard like Angelos the revenue money - both from merchandise and from being able to tell fans you're not punting the season - may be worth more in dollar value than a Chance Adams and a Miguel Andujar. This is a guy whose GM sells IFA money, almost all of it, because he won't commit the money to build a Latin American scouting program. They are the only team without a significant presence down there.

Gotcha. Thanks. And I agree.

they don't want to spend. period. Sandy was able to get lucky the past couple years bringing back Cespedes with the extra playoff $. And this year despite his best efforts to recoup money at the deadline the well has seemingly dried up.

Btw here are Kinsler's 10 no trade teams:
Mets, Angels, Brewers, Yankees, Dodgers, Athletics, Padres, Giants, Rays, and Blue Jays.

A few teams he probably didn't want to go to, a few big market teams to possibly extract an extension. With all the "legwork" they'd supposedly done pre-WM it seems crazy to think they would have been surprised at the sticker price of 2 nothing prospects or caught off guard by a no-trade clause. Or incompetent. Not sure which would be a better outcome.
Details On Ian Kinsler�s No-Trade Clause - ( New Window )

In comment 13739778 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

I have plenty of issues with the spending - even still, I don't feel you necessarily have to spend 150M+ on payroll every year to be competitive - but if you're not, then you have to be very active and creative. You have to be more of a player in the IFA market, you have to constantly be scouring the wire.

Oh, I know spending money doesn't equal winning, but the Mets I grew up with never cared about spending too much. Now it's clear that they do. At least when they failed, they failed while trying to put together a team that could win. It's really the creativity that bothers me the most.

In 2006 they overspent on some players just to make the franchise credible again. They ended up getting Beltran, went after Delgado. Overpaid for Pedro just to demonstrate that they wanted to win games. It made the team a destination.

I have no confidence they would risk spending money even on prime talent. It's always dollar store shopping, unless it's one of Sandy's misguided bullpen hunches like Frank Francisco.

In comment 13739784 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13739778 arcarsenal said: Quote: I have plenty of issues with the spending - even still, I don't feel you necessarily have to spend 150M+ on payroll every year to be competitive - but if you're not, then you have to be very active and creative. You have to be more of a player in the IFA market, you have to constantly be scouring the wire. Oh, I know spending money doesn't equal winning, but the Mets I grew up with never cared about spending too much. Now it's clear that they do. At least when they failed, they failed while trying to put together a team that could win. It's really the creativity that bothers me the most. In 2006 they overspent on some players just to make the franchise credible again. They ended up getting Beltran, went after Delgado. Overpaid for Pedro just to demonstrate that they wanted to win games. It made the team a destination. I have no confidence they would risk spending money even on prime talent. It's always dollar store shopping, unless it's one of Sandy's misguided bullpen hunches like Frank Francisco.

I'm with ya, man. Agree with every word.

Frustrating times. Brought up such a promising crop of young pitchers and I feel like it's all just going to complete shit.

In comment 13739593 Milton said:

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In comment 13739572 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 13739544 Milton said: Quote: In comment 13739517 DaddyM89 said: Quote: one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole? I hope they can keep Sheffield. If they can get it done without including Torres, Florial, Sheffield, Abreu, Andujar, and Medina I'll be a happy camper. Maybe Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (not Mr. Tate of McMann & Tate, but Dillon Tate). Those are four excellent prospects, but they can't expect all their trades to be as painless as the one for Stanton. Yuck. Forget Cole - stop trying to suggest paying ace prices for a mid-rotation guy with NL stats. Fulmer should be the target. I'll leave it to Cashman to decide who presents the better bargain between Cole and Fullmer, but I suspect Fullmer will come at too high a cost. Certainly it would be at a higher cost than Cole. And while Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (Dillon Tate, not the advertising big whig) is a steep price, it still leaves the Yankees with their untouchables intact. It'll be impossible to pull off a deal for Fulmer without including at least one out of Torres, Florial, and Sheffield.

You are wildly undervaluing Frazier. He's in the "untouchables" class in terms of talent, but has graduated out of the prospect rankings. He absolutely could headline a deal for Fulmer (the package you're suggesting would be a steep but acceptable price even for Fulmer, actually - might have to swap Abreu for Tate or Andujar for Estrada). And Fulmer is worth more (way more) than Cole in terms of prospects, due to age, production, current salary and implied salary going forward.

I'm not dismissing the possibility of the Yankees going after Cole, but not even close to the price you're willing to pay, which is no doubt influenced by the fact that you've been in on him for months and are overvaluing him as a target.

In comment 13739819 Gatorade Dunk said:

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You are wildly undervaluing Frazier. He's in the "untouchables" class in terms of talent, but has graduated out of the prospect rankings. He absolutely could headline a deal for Fulmer (the package you're suggesting would be a steep but acceptable price even for Fulmer, actually - might have to swap Abreu for Tate or Andujar for Estrada). And Fulmer is worth more (way more) than Cole in terms of prospects, due to age, production, current salary and implied salary going forward. I'm not dismissing the possibility of the Yankees going after Cole, but not even close to the price you're willing to pay, which is no doubt influenced by the fact that you've been in on him for months and are overvaluing him as a target.

While most tend to put together overly optimistic hypothetical trades, my hypothetical trades are generally more pessimistic. And the thing about trades is sometimes we're surprised by how much somebody cost and sometimes we're surprised by how cheap they came. As fans we're rarely on the same page as those in the know when it comes to evaluating prospects. The Yankees got both Frazier and Sheffield for Andy Miller and they got Torres for a rental on Chapman, so by that standard, what should a young, cost-controlled All Star like Fulmer get in return?

Here's what Keith Law had to say on the subject...

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�I�m asking for two of this group � Torres, Sheffield, Andujar, oh and Florial," Law said on what he'd do if he was Avila. "I�m saying I want two of those in exchange, and then you�re asking for two more (prospects). Two really good prospects at the top and then two lesser prospects to round out the deal. And my lesser (prospects), they can be further away or they can be guys that are just not as good.�

The full article is linked below, but here's one more tidbit from it...

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�I like Andujar a lot. Now he�s not blocked because (Chase) Headley is gone. I wonder if (the Yankees) see him as a long-term piece or is that a place where they�ll go outside and use Andujar as a trade piece. He�s an everyday player for me, no question. Actually like him a bit more than (Clint) Frazier.�

Okay, and another (re: Sheffield)...

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�He�s the best pitching prospect in the system by far. He�s one of the best lefties in all of the minors.�

Keith Law on Yankees prospects that could be included in trade for Fulmer - ( New Window )