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NFT: MLB Winter Meetings Day 3

DaddyM89 : 12/13/2017 1:34 am
Things are starting to heat up on the hot stove:

-Machado and Ozuna are on the block. Look for the Cards to get one of them after losing out on Stanton.

- JD Martinez is down in Orlando negotiating with teams (my hunch is he goes to the Red Sox somewhere around 6 Years 170 Million.)

- After trading Headley on Tuesday, what is Cashmans next move. All signs seem to point to them trading for a cost controlled pitcher (Fulmer, Cole, Archer etc.) with their crop of prospects. That could be at the missing piece for a legit title run.

- Will the Mets finally do something? All ive seen from Mets fans is frustration the past two days, and I don't blame them one bit.

- Rumors of a possible Greinke trade also. That is a massive contract to move.

Should be a fun day.
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Fangraphs  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:22 pm : link
has him 5th
Lets  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:23 pm : link
put it this way, I have my doubts the Marlins develop him but I'd deal any Mets P prospect for him without giving it a ton of thought.


clarkspencer

@clarkspencer
Scout says Alcantara has "big arm," about a year away, projects as No. 2 starter. https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/941022831227363328
Rosenthal  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:26 pm : link
now saying Holland to Rockies is NOT done.
that's not saying much though, Mets only good SP prospects are hurt  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 2:27 pm : link
other than Peterson.
.  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:27 pm : link
SURPRISE, Ariz. Spike Owen spent 13 seasons in the big leagues and saw thousands of different pitchers. Yet when asked how many he can recall with fastballs like the one Cardinals righthander Sandy Alcantara showed off on Monday afternoon, he didnt hesitate.

Five, tops, he said.

In his second start of the fall, Alcantara, a 22-year-old who made his major league debut late this past season, sat between 96-99 with his fastball and touched 101 mph twice. He coupled the pitch with an improved curveball and a swing-and-miss changeup over the course of three hitless innings against visiting Scottsdale.

Alcantara is the second Fall League pitcher in as many days to touch triple-digits after Baltimore lefty Tanner Scott lit up the radar gun on Saturday against Peoria.

He was outstanding, Owen said. He had the good sinker going, but in the first couple of innings he was going a little more offspeed and working on his offspeed stuff, which looked good, but then came out and established the fastball. And hes got a live arm and has really good stuff. It was impressive.

Alcantara allowed just a walk over his three innings while striking out one batter. He threw 24 of his 40 pitches for strikes before yielding to Rays righthander Spencer Jones in the fourth.

The velocity on Alcantaras fastball is special on its own, but the ease with which he brings it sets him apart.

Its so smooth. Its an easy 101, Owen said. Its an electric arm. Hes fun to watch pitch.


Read more at https://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/sandy-alcantara-brings-heat/#mVKgRfcOt8vE1AJI.99
RE: that's not saying much though, Mets only good SP prospects are hurt  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13739249 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
other than Peterson.


Yeah but the Marlins reportedly were asking for pitching so the Mets had no shot if that's the case.
.  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:29 pm : link
Jon Heyman‏Verified account
@JonHeyman
Following Following @JonHeyman
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an a's trade for stephen piscotty from cardinals is "edging closer" via @susanslusser. @Ken_Rosenthal connected those 2 teams earlier.
RE: Eric,  
Jay on the Island : 12/13/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13739198 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
I agree. Obviously the Marlins are shedding salary like crazy but there is zero reason to throw Yelich away while doing so. I'm hoping Atlanta uses Prado's salary dump as a way to talk down the Yelich price a bit. Sure seems like the Marlins would be dumb enough to listen.

Yeah agreed I discussed taking on Prado's full deal and another contract like Ziegler (1 year $9 million) or Edinson Volquez (1 year $13 million) in order to drive down the asking price for Yelich. The Braves have done a very good job over the years of turning washed up veteran bullpen arms into solid performers. If Ziegler bounces back and plays well he could bring back a decent lottery ticket at the deadline.

It will be interesting to see if anyone is willing to take on Wei-Yin Chen's contract in a package with Yelich. If so the Marlins will likely seriously consider moving Yelich.
Alcantara is the headliner  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 2:34 pm : link
Joel Sherman‏Verified account
@Joelsherman1
41s41 seconds ago
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Alcantara is big piece going to #Marlins in 4-player package, hear other 3 are minor leaguers of less ilk #Stlcards
RE: RE: that's not saying much though, Mets only good SP prospects are hurt  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13739252 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13739249 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


other than Peterson.



Yeah but the Marlins reportedly were asking for pitching so the Mets had no shot if that's the case.


Unless the Mets got creative...so you are correct, no shot.
Carig  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:36 pm : link
says the Mets did offer Shaw 3 years before he signed
RE: RE: Eric,  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13739255 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13739198 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


I agree. Obviously the Marlins are shedding salary like crazy but there is zero reason to throw Yelich away while doing so. I'm hoping Atlanta uses Prado's salary dump as a way to talk down the Yelich price a bit. Sure seems like the Marlins would be dumb enough to listen.


Yeah agreed I discussed taking on Prado's full deal and another contract like Ziegler (1 year $9 million) or Edinson Volquez (1 year $13 million) in order to drive down the asking price for Yelich. The Braves have done a very good job over the years of turning washed up veteran bullpen arms into solid performers. If Ziegler bounces back and plays well he could bring back a decent lottery ticket at the deadline.

It will be interesting to see if anyone is willing to take on Wei-Yin Chen's contract in a package with Yelich. If so the Marlins will likely seriously consider moving Yelich.


Stop stealing my fictional met trades.
RE: Carig  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13739268 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets did offer Shaw 3 years before he signed


Just a guess, but I bet the 3rd year was some form of an option.
Kind  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:37 pm : link
of weird how quiet Addison Reed's market has been. It's possible his ask is significantly more than these other guys since he has closer on his resume.
That Chen contract is just ugly.  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2017 2:38 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Carig  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13739271 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13739268 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


says the Mets did offer Shaw 3 years before he signed



Just a guess, but I bet the 3rd year was some form of an option.


Very possible, Carig didn't really go into detail.
Also Heyman and Nightengale now saying Marlins may hold Yelich  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 2:39 pm : link
which makes sense even if he wants out. The only reason to trade him is if you have to because of $. There is literally no other reason.
.  
BigBlue4You09 : 12/13/2017 3:26 pm : link
Source confirms Marlins have no plans to trade Christian Yelich despite trades of Giancarlo Stanton, Dee Gordon and Marcell Ozuna.
Either they think hanging on to one of two guys  
GiantFilthy : 12/13/2017 3:29 pm : link
will keep the fans happy or they are not satisfied with the offers they have received so far.
.  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 4:02 pm : link
Jon Heyman‏Verified account
@JonHeyman
2m2 minutes ago
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Padres are engaging in trade talks for headley and solarte
Swarzak wasnt my first choice but he was absolutely incredible last  
ZGiants98 : 12/13/2017 4:54 pm : link
year. Kahnle, Minor, Morrow, ect are all just basically coming off one year and are still viewed as good options. Im pleased.

Relievers by fWAR, 2017:
1. Jansen 3.6
2. Kimbrel 3.3
3. Osuna 3.0
4. Knebel 2.8
5. Neshek 2.5
6. Green 2.3
7. Miller 2.3
8. Swarzak 2.2
9. Minor 2.1
10. Kahnle 2.1
Sandy saying they are turning their attention away from relievers  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 5:12 pm : link
would go over a lot better if they'd actually add someone of relevance. If they want to wait out the last few good relievers left on the FA or trade markets, or even pick someone in the rule 5, fine. They have enormous holes in the IF and OF, can they get a little aggressive and fill 1 of them?
.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/13/2017 5:14 pm : link
Bill Brink‏Verified account
@BrinkPG
]
The Pirates are gathering names of young, controllable players from the Yankees for a possible Gerrit Cole deal, but nothing close. Yankees also looking at Michael Fulmer, Chris Archer.
Hard not to like the  
Metnut : 12/13/2017 5:30 pm : link
Swarzak signing in isolation but the entire offseason is Swarzek, Bruce and Kipnis or something like that then the fans should have pitchforks.
Mnut  
brunswick : 12/13/2017 5:37 pm : link
If you think u r getting better than that you are crazy
Would clint frazer  
DaddyM89 : 12/13/2017 5:42 pm : link
one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole?
RE: Hard not to like the  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2017 6:08 pm : link
In comment 13739507 Metnut said:
Quote:
Swarzak signing in isolation but the entire offseason is Swarzek, Bruce and Kipnis or something like that then the fans should have pitchforks.


That's exactly what we're going to get. Book it.
wonder if the Mets would be interested  
Rory : 12/13/2017 6:10 pm : link
in working out a trade for Ellsbury. Kinda a 50/50 salary agreement. Would fill a need at CF with a proven OF
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2017 6:15 pm : link
A sub-2 WAR player making 20M a year for 3 more seasons? I'd pass.
RE: wonder if the Mets would be interested  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 6:15 pm : link
In comment 13739537 Rory said:
Quote:
in working out a trade for Ellsbury. Kinda a 50/50 salary agreement. Would fill a need at CF with a proven OF


Ellsbury would be a good fit for the Mets, but even at 50% of his cost he's probably too expensive for their budget.
RE: wonder if the Mets would be interested  
Jay on the Island : 12/13/2017 6:16 pm : link
In comment 13739537 Rory said:
Quote:
in working out a trade for Ellsbury. Kinda a 50/50 salary agreement. Would fill a need at CF with a proven OF

They won't. It doesn't make much sense on their end as Lagares is probably a better option anyway not to mention Conforto looked better than expected there and he could move back there if they find another viable option in RF as I believe Nimmo is a 4th outfielder.
RE: Would clint frazer  
Milton : 12/13/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13739517 DaddyM89 said:
Quote:
one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole?
I hope they can keep Sheffield. If they can get it done without including Torres, Florial, Sheffield, Abreu, Andujar, and Medina I'll be a happy camper. Maybe Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (not Mr. Tate of McMann & Tate, but Dillon Tate). Those are four excellent prospects, but they can't expect all their trades to be as painless as the one for Stanton.
RE: .  
spike : 12/13/2017 6:25 pm : link
In comment 13739172 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Marlins really know how to alienate their fans.

One of the best young outfields in baseball with Ozuna/Yelich/Stanton and they're going to wind up trading all 3 away.

I have no idea what the endgame ever is for that franchise. They're pathetic.


They should move to Nashville or Portland
Lagares is made of glass and Conforto is best served in RF  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 6:30 pm : link
so I'm of the opinion that CF is almost as big of a need as 2nd base. They don't have a lead-off hitter and they need at least 1 more middle of the order bat. Fitting together all of the puzzle pieces at once is really hard so I think the only way to approach filling holes is to get aggressive for the best players possible (that's why I'd start by trying to give up whatever it takes to get Yelich). If they truly don't have the pieces to get him, even taking on salary, Lorenzo Cain would be my fallback option. He could hit anywhere at the top of the order and by the numbers is still a very solid CF.
.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/13/2017 6:31 pm : link
Erik Boland‏Verified account
@eboland11

Cashman: "Were full frontal attack on all fronts. Obviously we need to address some things but patience is a virtue. Well see if something can get settled between now and tomorrow but, really, we have between now and spring training. We'll see."
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2017 6:32 pm : link
Cain makes the most sense to me, personally.

I just know the Mets probably won't want to spend the money.
It sounds like jeter's ownership group used every cent they had to buy  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 6:32 pm : link
the team, which was already saddled with debt service, and they literally just need to purge payroll to gain liquidity and wipe out their outstanding long term debts. It sounds just as shameful as it was that the Wilponzis were able to keep the Mets and take on all their bridge loans at the expense of the team.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2017 6:34 pm : link
Sounds like the Angels are close to acquiring Kinsler. Not sure if that was posted already.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13739555 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Cain makes the most sense to me, personally.

I just know the Mets probably won't want to spend the money.


I feel the same way, I just don't get it. Last year they had like $30M invested in Granderson and Bruce that was set to expire. By all accounts they need a positive voice in the clubhouse. And yet, they remain interested in Bruce? Something doesn't add up.
Full Ozuna trade w/ MLB pipeline ratings  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 6:39 pm : link
9. Sandy Alcantara, RHP
6. Magneuris Sierra, OF
13. Zac Gallen, RHP
NR. Daniel Castano, LHP

Obviously they have been really enamored with Alcantara and he's a big piece to them. Sierra is rated highly and sounds like a light hitting, great defense CF. Decent haul, but not as good as I would have expected for a top young OF with 2 years of control.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2017 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13739564 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13739555 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Cain makes the most sense to me, personally.

I just know the Mets probably won't want to spend the money.



I feel the same way, I just don't get it. Last year they had like $30M invested in Granderson and Bruce that was set to expire. By all accounts they need a positive voice in the clubhouse. And yet, they remain interested in Bruce? Something doesn't add up.


It feels like they've completely recoiled after the way last year went and are back in super-conservative mode.

Almost as if to say "see, we tried to spend more money last year and we still had a bad season where the park was half empty from August on"

It's pretty offensive, honestly.

Swarzak is a move I'm on board with - that's good. But that's the problem with the Mets. They take half-measures. That should be one of many other things that happen. After that move, they should have said "it's a small piece of the puzzle, we still have a lot of work to do."

Instead, it'll wind up being our 2nd "big" move of the offseason with someone like Jay Bruce being "the bat" they (re)acquire and they'll try to sell us on the team getting healthy and making another run.
RE: RE: Would clint frazer  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/13/2017 6:48 pm : link
In comment 13739544 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13739517 DaddyM89 said:


Quote:


one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole?

I hope they can keep Sheffield. If they can get it done without including Torres, Florial, Sheffield, Abreu, Andujar, and Medina I'll be a happy camper. Maybe Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (not Mr. Tate of McMann & Tate, but Dillon Tate). Those are four excellent prospects, but they can't expect all their trades to be as painless as the one for Stanton.

Yuck. Forget Cole - stop trying to suggest paying ace prices for a mid-rotation guy with NL stats. Fulmer should be the target.
Ricco  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 6:49 pm : link
trolling Mets fans I see

Michael Mayer @mikemayerMMO
now
Also mentioned signing Yoenis Cespedes when asked about acquiring big names, and said they do as many deals like that as anybody.
I think that's a pretty accurate representation of the situation  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 6:51 pm : link
Sandy is literally too boring and too averse to just mixing it up that this painful patient approach settles in and has a paralysis effect when combined with the budget. Cashman has a huge budget, yes, but he also aggressively took shots on guys like Didi and Castro when their value was low. Those were guys we were rumored for numerous times and when they became available for peanuts we passed. Jed Lowrie is another guy who was their for the taking as a FA a few times and now we're trying to trade for him.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2017 6:52 pm : link
LOL, the only reason Cespedes was even brought back after 2015 is because he fell right into their laps. They were very much prepared to let him walk if another team had some in with a more competitive offer.

What a fucking clown show.
Didi, Hicks  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 6:56 pm : link
Castro, Chad Green. Yankees spend but also have a great GM.
RE: I think that's a pretty accurate representation of the situation  
arcarsenal : 12/13/2017 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13739575 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Sandy is literally too boring and too averse to just mixing it up that this painful patient approach settles in and has a paralysis effect when combined with the budget. Cashman has a huge budget, yes, but he also aggressively took shots on guys like Didi and Castro when their value was low. Those were guys we were rumored for numerous times and when they became available for peanuts we passed. Jed Lowrie is another guy who was their for the taking as a FA a few times and now we're trying to trade for him.


Yep. The reason why the Yankees were able to rebuild so quickly and so efficiently is because they were willing to spend in the first place - it allowed them to flip players like Chapman and Miller at the deadline to re-stock their farm and they just went ahead and re-signed Chapman anyway.

So, just by spending to sign Chapman in the first place, they were able to acquire a top-shelf prospect in Torres and then wind up with Chapman back in the fold the very next season anyway.

Some teams are committed to winning - the Mets are committed to saving money.
Kinsler  
DanMetroMan : 12/13/2017 7:03 pm : link
an Angel
RE: RE: RE: Would clint frazer  
Milton : 12/13/2017 7:05 pm : link
In comment 13739572 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13739544 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13739517 DaddyM89 said:


Quote:


one of their top pitching prospects ( Sheffield, Adams, Abreu) and maybe two lower level prospects get it done for Cole?

I hope they can keep Sheffield. If they can get it done without including Torres, Florial, Sheffield, Abreu, Andujar, and Medina I'll be a happy camper. Maybe Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (not Mr. Tate of McMann & Tate, but Dillon Tate). Those are four excellent prospects, but they can't expect all their trades to be as painless as the one for Stanton.


Yuck. Forget Cole - stop trying to suggest paying ace prices for a mid-rotation guy with NL stats. Fulmer should be the target.
I'll leave it to Cashman to decide who presents the better bargain between Cole and Fullmer, but I suspect Fullmer will come at too high a cost. Certainly it would be at a higher cost than Cole. And while Frazier, Adams, Estrada, and Tate (Dillon Tate, not the advertising big whig) is a steep price, it still leaves the Yankees with their untouchables intact. It'll be impossible to pull off a deal for Fulmer without including at least one out of Torres, Florial, and Sheffield.
Exactly - Miller too  
Eric on Li : 12/13/2017 7:16 pm : link
They didn't resign him (yet) but that move gave them a better roster for the time he was there and a piece that's probably going to bring back Fulmer. Their spending creates value. Buying low and rolling the dice creates value.

Sandy sits on his hands and pretends the budget isn't a problem. He acts surprised by FA values easily predicted by MLBTR. They shuffle players back and forth from their natural positions like Conforto (LF-> RF -> CF), and Flores, and Cespedes, instead of just putting them in their best positions and letting them succeed. Then repeat the same mistakes all over again the next offseason.

Step 1. Pass on the most obvious but expensive options (Hosmer/Moustakas/Davis).

Step 2. Pass on the most appealing tier 2 options (Morrow/Minor/McGee/Cain/Shaw). Also bemoan the over priced trade market and knock players that "didn't fit".

Step 3. Spend on the best of the not great options or take on salary dump type trades and put them into a role or position they aren't accustomed to (Bruce to 1B!).

Step 4. Rinse and repeat next year.
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