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O-Line: The Giants have quietly accumulated...

M.S. : 12/14/2017 6:44 am
...at least 4 offensive linemen from the 2017 Draft, all of whom had ~4th Round grades:

Jessamen Dunker
Damien Mama
Chad Wheeler
Adam Bisnowaty

Boy, it would sure be nice if one of these guys (two would be great!) could step up and become part of a future O-line solution.
Wheeler needs to hit the weight room  
nyjuggernaut2 : 12/14/2017 7:00 am : link
He looks like he weighs 270 out there.
size  
Hilary : 12/14/2017 7:15 am : link
I have no idea if Damien Mama can play well but Fluker and Mama would be a huge tandem that should be hard to push back in short yardage and goal line situations. I would really love to see the Giants re sign Fluker and perhaps draft a center like Price from OSU in the second round.
Solari has done a decent job....  
edavisiii : 12/14/2017 7:37 am : link
Flowers isn't pretty as Sy'56 stated, but he has gotten better. Hart looks a little better now that his ankle has improved. Jones is a decent backup, his physical limitations show. Fluker got better. Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Fluker might have been decent but injuries clobbered the OL. We need to draft a tackle and a interior guy to create competition. FA pickings look slim, that is why the GM choice is critical. If we stay with Eli we got to protect him.
As it now stands  
mrvax : 12/14/2017 8:14 am : link
I'd go best QB, and then get 2 Oline guys who you have ranked highly in the draft. Hate need picks but it's now sort of necessary.
It's still early, but not looking like a strong crop high in the draft  
JonC : 12/14/2017 8:22 am : link
nor UFA, at least where tackles are concerned.

If they could find a road grader OG in the second round, and a RT via UFA, things look better on paper. The problem is Pugh and Richburg aren't likely good value relative to open market dollars.
RE: It's still early, but not looking like a strong crop high in the draft  
Victor in CT : 12/14/2017 8:27 am : link
In comment 13739866 JonC said:
Quote:
nor UFA, at least where tackles are concerned.

If they could find a road grader OG in the second round, and a RT via UFA, things look better on paper. The problem is Pugh and Richburg aren't likely good value relative to open market dollars.


yup. and overpaying players like Pugh and Richburg lead to cap problems later.
Flowers has earned his option IMO  
Rory : 12/14/2017 8:27 am : link
Hart looks to be a competent backup

Jones looks to be a stopgap at Center in case Richburgh walks which seems likely

Fluker could be resigned at RG

Jerry will most likely be cut

Pugh resigned

Leaving RT or LG as a position of need to address pending where they play Pugh.
Accumulated by  
HomerJones45 : 12/14/2017 8:38 am : link
our now disgraced former GM, the hopefully soon-to-be-disgraced Ross and the owner's relative, none of whom who appear to recognize a legitimate professional o-lineman if one jumped up and bit him on the ass. Wake me when any of these guys make an impact.

As for Flowers, Jones and Fluker, don't fall into the trap of mediocrities looking "good" when compared to the flotsam and jetsam around them. One can run block a little but can't pass block, one can pass block, maybe, but not run block and another isn't very good at either. I would let them all walk.
Calling Beat Reporters - create a story  
Gross Blau Oberst : 12/14/2017 8:55 am : link
on the development of the following players who may not be well known to fans. What are the coaches saying about these players? How have they developed on the Practice Squad, or on the active roster?

Practice Squad OL
# Name - Pos - Ht - Wt - Age - Acqd
66 Adam Bisnowaty - OT - 6-6 - 307 - 24 - 2017/6
62 Ethan Cooper - OG - 6-2 - 322 - 22 - 2017/UFA
61 Nick Becton - OG - 6-6 - 322 - 27 - 2017/UFA


Active Roster OL
63 Chad Wheeler - OT - 6-7 - 312 - 23 - 2017/UDFA
73 John Greco - OG - 6-4 - 318 - 32 - 2017/UFA
?? Damien Mama - OG - 6-3 - 342 - 22 2017/UFA


Great thread M.S. The Oline may finally be getting some attention this off season.

Scouting reports on these newer players would be of interest to me. Others too?
RE: Flowers has earned his option IMO  
Diver_Down : 12/14/2017 9:00 am : link
In comment 13739873 Rory said:
Quote:
Hart looks to be a competent backup

Jones looks to be a stopgap at Center in case Richburgh walks which seems likely

Fluker could be resigned at RG

Jerry will most likely be cut

Pugh resigned

Leaving RT or LG as a position of need to address pending where they play Pugh.


Wait. Flowers has earned his option? The deadline to elect to pickup the option is in May. Flowers option is $14M guaranteed. And you want to re-sign Pugh who just finished 8 games this season at a little more than $1M/game. So you are advocating a combined cap hit in 2019 between these 2 scrubs of approx. $22M? Awesome.
I'm sure none of these guys mentioned  
RottenApple : 12/14/2017 9:05 am : link
will amount to much in the NFL. That dude from Pitt was an absolute disaster against guys now working at Dairy Queen. It actually appeared he never played football before being drafted.
Two lines of thought?  
jbeintherockies : 12/14/2017 9:44 am : link
I wonder if there is two lines of thought/philosophy when drafting players:
1. Draft players with very good technique (at least for college ranks). But does that mean their ceiling is lower?
2. Draft guys with very little technique and have coaching staff develop the player's technique. Theory being higher ceiling.

Might be a question for Sy.
RE: RE: Flowers has earned his option IMO  
mrvax : 12/14/2017 9:46 am : link
In comment 13739894 Diver_Down said:
Quote:

Wait. Flowers has earned his option? The deadline to elect to pickup the option is in May. Flowers option is $14M guaranteed.


Just double-checked your facts. Unreal. Flowers 2019option will cost about $14,442,464!

Thatis just WAY to high. Screw that. Maybe for the best LOT in the league...
The team still needs to pick up a  
Beer Man : 12/14/2017 9:46 am : link
premium OL this off-season. I prefer through the draft to keep the cost down. Beyond that, IMHO:
1. Flowers stays (maybe with a move to RT, but he did show a lot of improvement at LT this year)
2. Resign Fluker
3. Between Rich and Justin, I would try to resign Rich. I like Justin better, but Justin is a china doll with back issues. Despite all of his talent and versatility, you can't risk premium dollars on a guy with his type of health issues. If the team can't get Rich at a decent rate, then Jones is the man.
4. Wheeler might actually be a diamond in the rough.
RE: RE: RE: Flowers has earned his option IMO  
Diver_Down : 12/14/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13739954 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13739894 Diver_Down said:


Quote:



Wait. Flowers has earned his option? The deadline to elect to pickup the option is in May. Flowers option is $14M guaranteed.



Just double-checked your facts. Unreal. Flowers 2019option will cost about $14,442,464!

Thatis just WAY to high. Screw that. Maybe for the best LOT in the league...


The 5th year option is calculated differently for players selected in the Top 10 versus other 1st round picks. Working in the constructs of the current CBA, a franchise can't afford to draft projects in the Top 10. Players need to be plug and play in order for the franchise to benefit from the 5th year option. People want to work with Apple. Unless he turns into Darrel Revis in his prime, there is no way the 5th year option will be picked up on a CB. The same dilemma will be who we pick in this coming draft. If it is Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield/etc., they need to start while on the cost controlled rookie salary. By the end of their 3rd year, they have to demonstrate their competency worthy enough for a team to pick up the 5th year option. The Jags are in the situation right now with Bortles. They opted to pick up his 5th year option ($19M guaranteed) because they save approx. $6M off the franchise tag. It is a gamble if Bortles demonstrated franchise QB qualities in his final year, then they would have been forced to tag him.
I can't believe ...  
Dnew15 : 12/14/2017 10:07 am : link
that anyone thinks that any of these guys are good.
Wheeler couldn't beat out Hart and then got used by Kerrigan and then he got hurt.
Hart sucks.
Pugh never plays.
Richburg hasn't been good in 2 years.
If Fluker comes on the cheap - I guess he's OK because we don't have anyone else
Flowers is the best we got and we all know he's got his warts.
Bitswany wasn't good enough to beat out any of the crappy guys we currently have...
I mean guys grow, they develop, they get better - but this is exactly the kind of thinking that jammed the Giants up for the past 5 years.
We're trying to talk ourselves into thinking that guys are better than they really are.
All I can say is, "OMG!"  
Doomster : 12/14/2017 10:38 am : link
Solari has done a decent job....
edavisiii : 7:37 am : link : reply
Chances are,  
Doomster : 12/14/2017 10:44 am : link
Giants will have 3 or even 4 new starters in the OL....

And Flowers will be gone the following year.....improvement? When you start that low, anything is an improvement.....but it still doesn't bring him up to the level of a competent LT...in fact, he might even be moved to another position next year.....

Guys like Fluker, Wheeler, and Bisnowaty are backups at best.....of course, you can't fix everything in one year, and one of them may be a starter out of necessity rather than because they are good enough....
Everyone keeps beating on Jerry. He and Flowers are the only linemen  
Ivan15 : 12/14/2017 1:10 pm : link
who started all year. Yes, Pugh and Richburg would have started if not injured, but starting every game is part of Jerry's credentials.

He is an adequate backup at 3 or 4 positions, under a cheap contract so why cut him loose? You need guys who are always ready to play, even at mediocre level.
If Mama had potential, he wouldn't have been cut in his first year  
Ivan15 : 12/14/2017 1:12 pm : link
unless he tried to strangle his o-line coach.
I really wonder who are the OL coaches that are good in this league...  
TheEvilLurker : 12/14/2017 1:16 pm : link
I think it would make sense to look at a good OL coach and see if they can get anything our of these players, or if they are junk.

I realize it's harder to do this today than in the past due to the practices...
Regarding Flowers improvement  
skifaster : 12/14/2017 3:28 pm : link
I wonder how much of his 'improvement' is due to opposing DCs attacking even weaker ares of the O-line.
Flowers at LT  
mdc1 : 12/14/2017 3:35 pm : link
is not success. A multi season fact. Let's move him to guard and stop this nonsense.
OL/Webb  
Giantslifer : 12/14/2017 3:49 pm : link
Maybe it's time to send all these guys out on field in 2nd half of Philly game and remaining games.
Move them around , see who fights for job.
Let Eli sit and see how well he adjusts to being back up.
First of many realignments.
RE: Flowers at LT  
Since1965 : 12/14/2017 4:12 pm : link
In comment 13740765 mdc1 said:
Quote:
is not success. A multi season fact. Let's move him to guard and stop this nonsense.


Absolutely. He needs to move to guard. Sure he looks better, but that's because the ball is still coming out in two seconds. Watch what happens to everyone on this line when Eli takes time to look downfield and throw a pass for 10 or more yards. I'm amazed that he's still standing.
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