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Why even consider keep Eli next year.....

Blue Angel : 12/14/2017 10:03 am
He is at best an average QB...In the past two seasons the offense has been putrid, and he DOES have some blame on his part about that....Is it going to take Davis Webb TWO YEARS to sit in the bench and learn. The Giants can save 20 million or so and invest it on the Offensive Line....I thought that it was THE QUARTERBACK COACH'S job that was suppose to train these young QBs not a 20 million dollar QB
that has seen better days and regressing at that. And when the Giants are 2-7 next season and they bench Eli for a younger QB....World War Three will occur again without the help of KIM, Yong Un....Is Eli running this Organization or what?????
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what  
Pete from Woodstock : 12/14/2017 10:06 am : link
.
Channeling Peggy  
Diver_Down : 12/14/2017 10:12 am : link
Random CAPS Lock. Multiple ellipsis (the demonstrative 4 period variety, no less). Reference to whack job Kim Y[J]ong Un. Final multiple question marks.

Ho Lee Fuk.
I have to agree.......  
Doomster : 12/14/2017 10:18 am : link
I do not see this Giant team being a contender next year....

That being the case this team should be in full rebuild mode....

And one of the first moves, is to rid itself of a 22 M cap hit, which Eli represents.....

I think Eli still has something left.....just not with this team....he needs an OL and weapons, which we do not have....

If the next GM/HC think they can turn this around in one year, by making an OL for him, and adding a WR, and getting us to a SB, then you keep him.....but if you keep him, and build around him, and you are one year too late with him, you have wasted 20M.....

I think the safe bet is to release him.....go QB in the first round.....start to rebuild this OL with draft picks and that 20M.....

OV is another possible cut......the same production from a DE can be had a lower price....

JPP is next on the list, but survives 2018 because of his dead cap.....

The time is now to start making moves, to get this team back on track......and hopefully we hire a GM that has the balls to do this and make the right moves...
RE: I have to agree.......  
Pep22 : 12/14/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13740002 Doomster said:
Quote:
I do not see this Giant team being a contender next year....

That being the case this team should be in full rebuild mode....

And one of the first moves, is to rid itself of a 22 M cap hit, which Eli represents.....

I think Eli still has something left.....just not with this team....he needs an OL and weapons, which we do not have....

If the next GM/HC think they can turn this around in one year, by making an OL for him, and adding a WR, and getting us to a SB, then you keep him.....but if you keep him, and build around him, and you are one year too late with him, you have wasted 20M.....

I think the safe bet is to release him.....go QB in the first round.....start to rebuild this OL with draft picks and that 20M.....

OV is another possible cut......the same production from a DE can be had a lower price....

JPP is next on the list, but survives 2018 because of his dead cap.....

The time is now to start making moves, to get this team back on track......and hopefully we hire a GM that has the balls to do this and make the right moves...


>> How do you figure we don't have weapons???
I am sooo sick of hearing this  
superspynyg : 12/14/2017 10:23 am : link
Eli is still the same qb he was in the past with one exception. He is playing in a system that does not fit him. He is not a spread offense qb. McAdoo's system only works if you have a Rodgers like qb.

We need to go back to good oline and a real good run game. When we won superbowls under Coughlin we have good olines, great def and two good rbs (Bradshaw, Jacobs, Ward) and Eli would make solid and timely passes and tons of 4th qrt drives.

Because I said,  
Doomster : 12/14/2017 10:31 am : link
RE: I have to agree.......
Pep22 : 10:20 am : link : reply
>> How do you figure we don't have weapons???

Quote:
he needs an OL and weapons, which we do not have....


without an OL, those weapons are basically useless, like our offense was in 2016.....
You can't be serious!  
Doomster : 12/14/2017 10:32 am : link
I am sooo sick of hearing this
superspynyg : 10:23 am : link : reply
Eli is still the same qb he was in the past
RE: You can't be serious!  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 10:33 am : link
In comment 13740028 Doomster said:
Quote:
I am sooo sick of hearing this
superspynyg : 10:23 am : link : reply
Eli is still the same qb he was in the past


Don't take his word for it:

Kevin Gilbride:

Quote:
Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.

“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.

“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”


Greg Cosell:

Quote:
Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”


Sy'56:

Quote:
Eli Manning: 31/46 – 228 yards – 1 TD/2 INT. The two interceptions at the end of the game have an asterisk next to them. It was desperation time and he had to force things. The drops by Shepard and Lewis were killers and, at this point, both inexcusable but expected, ironically. Manning didn’t have a lot of “minus” throws and he just doesn’t have time to go through a lot of reads. This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with from what I have seen.

"This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with."


John Mara:

Quote:
"I'm concerned about our team. We still think he can play. We obviously have to get better around him."


John Gruden, when asked if he'd come back to coach the Giants, said "I would consider it if Eli Manning was there.

When the professionals give their evaluation of what's wrong, it's not hard to see the common denominator. It's not Eli's ability.

And before someboyd inevitably zeros in with laser like focus on the "dependent player" thing from Cosell, Eli has always been that. We have not put the players around him to succeed for the past five years, and THAT is the difference. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why Jerry Reese is fired. They did not build around their franchise QB's strengths. Gilbride said it himself. “As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.” Yet we built and installed an offense that relied on just that. Even worse that we did it in Eli's prime years. It's easy to go back to 2013 and see Jerry Reese deflecting from his poor job of building an offensive line with the "skittish" comments, and then to McAdoo's constant criticisms of "having to play in dirty pockets", or the other excuse that line play is poor around the league. It's all bullsh-t. We knew what he could and couldn't do and we did not put a team around him that supported those strengths. And we still haven't. Hopefully the new coach and GM will do that if he decides to stay.

And it doesn't have to be ALL WORLD TALENT everywhere as some will use hyperbole to state. But it has to be at least competent, and we have not had that.

Now you can whine and complain about Eli lovers, apologists, declines, salaries, etc.... But the truth is right in front of you if you want to see it.
RE: RE: You can't be serious!  
18E : 12/14/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13740033 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13740028 Doomster said:


Quote:


I am sooo sick of hearing this
superspynyg : 10:23 am : link : reply
Eli is still the same qb he was in the past



Don't take his word for it:

Kevin Gilbride:



Quote:


Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.

“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.

“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”



Greg Cosell:



Quote:


Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”



Sy'56:



Quote:


Eli Manning: 31/46 – 228 yards – 1 TD/2 INT. The two interceptions at the end of the game have an asterisk next to them. It was desperation time and he had to force things. The drops by Shepard and Lewis were killers and, at this point, both inexcusable but expected, ironically. Manning didn’t have a lot of “minus” throws and he just doesn’t have time to go through a lot of reads. This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with from what I have seen.

"This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with."



John Mara:



Quote:


"I'm concerned about our team. We still think he can play. We obviously have to get better around him."



John Gruden, when asked if he'd come back to coach the Giants, said "I would consider it if Eli Manning was there.

When the professionals give their evaluation of what's wrong, it's not hard to see the common denominator. It's not Eli's ability.

And before someboyd inevitably zeros in with laser like focus on the "dependent player" thing from Cosell, Eli has always been that. We have not put the players around him to succeed for the past five years, and THAT is the difference. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why Jerry Reese is fired. They did not build around their franchise QB's strengths. Gilbride said it himself. “As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.” Yet we built and installed an offense that relied on just that. Even worse that we did it in Eli's prime years. It's easy to go back to 2013 and see Jerry Reese deflecting from his poor job of building an offensive line with the "skittish" comments, and then to McAdoo's constant criticisms of "having to play in dirty pockets", or the other excuse that line play is poor around the league. It's all bullsh-t. We knew what he could and couldn't do and we did not put a team around him that supported those strengths. And we still haven't. Hopefully the new coach and GM will do that if he decides to stay.

And it doesn't have to be ALL WORLD TALENT everywhere as some will use hyperbole to state. But it has to be at least competent, and we have not had that.

Now you can whine and complain about Eli lovers, apologists, declines, salaries, etc.... But the truth is right in front of you if you want to see it.


Great job as usual Britt.

Doomster, stick this straight up your ass.
Wishful thinking.....  
Doomster : 12/14/2017 11:04 am : link
RE: RE: You can't be serious!
18E : 10:52 am : link : reply
Doomster, stick this straight up your ass.

Talk is cheap Mr. Gilbride, actions speak louder than words....

As for you 18E, is that your age or IQ?

I have stated, that Eli may still have 2 years left in him, with a good OL in front of him with weapons, just not with this team as it stands.....

But the fantasy that Elis is STILL "the same qb he was in the past" is just plain laughable......
RE: I have to agree.......  
UConn4523 : 12/14/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13740002 Doomster said:
Quote:
I do not see this Giant team being a contender next year....

That being the case this team should be in full rebuild mode....

And one of the first moves, is to rid itself of a 22 M cap hit, which Eli represents.....

I think Eli still has something left.....just not with this team....he needs an OL and weapons, which we do not have....

If the next GM/HC think they can turn this around in one year, by making an OL for him, and adding a WR, and getting us to a SB, then you keep him.....but if you keep him, and build around him, and you are one year too late with him, you have wasted 20M.....

I think the safe bet is to release him.....go QB in the first round.....start to rebuild this OL with draft picks and that 20M.....

OV is another possible cut......the same production from a DE can be had a lower price....

JPP is next on the list, but survives 2018 because of his dead cap.....

The time is now to start making moves, to get this team back on track......and hopefully we hire a GM that has the balls to do this and make the right moves...


Who would have pegged the Saints as contenders heading into this season?

Things change on a dime, whatever you think about the team in each of your bullet points has a high probability of being incorrect (not a slight on you, just that you really have no idea how this all plays out).
I agree with OP  
Giantophile : 12/14/2017 11:10 am : link
Time to call a spade a spade, hit reset. We have a new GM, a new coach, new offense, and will have 2 young QBs. Eli's presence for camp/part of the year is as much a luxury as it is a distraction.

He's not in the long term plans, let him walk a year early rather than a year late and put the massive cap hit to good use. I love Eli but this franchise is in a different place now.
RE: RE: I have to agree.......  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13740117 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13740002 Doomster said:


Quote:


I do not see this Giant team being a contender next year....

That being the case this team should be in full rebuild mode....

And one of the first moves, is to rid itself of a 22 M cap hit, which Eli represents.....

I think Eli still has something left.....just not with this team....he needs an OL and weapons, which we do not have....

If the next GM/HC think they can turn this around in one year, by making an OL for him, and adding a WR, and getting us to a SB, then you keep him.....but if you keep him, and build around him, and you are one year too late with him, you have wasted 20M.....

I think the safe bet is to release him.....go QB in the first round.....start to rebuild this OL with draft picks and that 20M.....

OV is another possible cut......the same production from a DE can be had a lower price....

JPP is next on the list, but survives 2018 because of his dead cap.....

The time is now to start making moves, to get this team back on track......and hopefully we hire a GM that has the balls to do this and make the right moves...



Who would have pegged the Saints as contenders heading into this season?

Things change on a dime, whatever you think about the team in each of your bullet points has a high probability of being incorrect (not a slight on you, just that you really have no idea how this all plays out).


Or the Eagles, or the Rams, or the Jaguars, or the Vikings....
Britt... your 10:33 post  
EricJ : 12/14/2017 11:15 am : link
just a little bit of time on your hands this morning? You could have gotten a part time job instead...
It took no time. Maybe about 2-3 minutes to format.  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 11:16 am : link
Because those have been posted on BBI several times in the past two weeks and were easy to copy and paste.
Britt  
UConn4523 : 12/14/2017 11:18 am : link
exactly. Outside of the regular 2 or 3 teams there's a ton of new blood in the playoffs this year, and some of them stunk last year.

The doom and gloom posts are ridiculous. This isn't the NBA where you aren't going to have a shot unless you are a top 4 team.
Uconn..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/14/2017 11:22 am : link
to add more perspective to your post:

Quote:
Britt
UConn4523 : 11:18 am : link : reply
exactly. Outside of the regular 2 or 3 teams there's a ton of new blood in the playoffs this year, and some of them stunk last year.

The doom and gloom posts are ridiculous. This isn't the NBA where you aren't going to have a shot unless you are a top 4 team.


It isn't just this year - it is every year.

The playoffs have 12 teams that qualify. Right now, 8 teams will be different this year from last year. EVEDRY YEAR there have been at least 4 new teams (33%) making the playoffs from the previous year since 2000, and the average is 6 teams.
By the way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/14/2017 11:24 am : link
the top 3 NFC seeds (Philly, Minny, LA) missed the playoffs last year. and none of the teams were above .500
.  
arcarsenal : 12/14/2017 11:27 am : link
I've said this several times - but if a rebuilding team in this league isn't showing significant improvement within about 2 years, it probably means the wrong people are in charge.

If it's a really bleak situation, it could take slightly longer - but the Giants have a lot of good football players here. They just don't have a good football team.

The right person will get this turned around quickly.
RE: .  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 11:36 am : link
In comment 13740169 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I've said this several times - but if a rebuilding team in this league isn't showing significant improvement within about 2 years, it probably means the wrong people are in charge.

If it's a really bleak situation, it could take slightly longer - but the Giants have a lot of good football players here. They just don't have a good football team.

The right person will get this turned around quickly.


Agreed.
Think both ELI and Mara  
TMS : 12/14/2017 11:59 am : link
want him to retire as a Giant. Think it will be worked out somehow. Not a bad guy to have around in any capacity. Coaches do not count against the cap so it is very doable. Unless ELI has media plans or wants to go some place else.
RE: I am sooo sick of hearing this  
NINEster : 12/14/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13740007 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Eli is still the same qb he was in the past with one exception. He is playing in a system that does not fit him. He is not a spread offense qb. McAdoo's system only works if you have a Rodgers like qb.

We need to go back to good oline and a real good run game. When we won superbowls under Coughlin we have good olines, great def and two good rbs (Bradshaw, Jacobs, Ward) and Eli would make solid and timely passes and tons of 4th qrt drives.


What is this I keep reading that McAdoo's system needs a mobile QB??

Is that implying it's a version of the WCO so f'd up that nobody is ever going to be open and hence you need a QB to scramble all the time?

WCO is legit for any kind of QB, mobility a plus. This is the offensive system designed to get the ball out fast compared to other systems.

This was the same offense that Eli was getting the ball out lightning fast in 2015.

Now if you're talking about needing touch on short throws or good footwork, that's another story. Watch a Bill Walsh video and you'll see him obsess over footwork. Steve Young said he if you chopped the torso off in the film he could tell how well the QB did based on the footwork.

To call McAdoo's system garbage because it's WCO is misinformed.
And of course the implication  
NINEster : 12/14/2017 12:13 pm : link
with footwork is that if Eli wasn't great with mobility, perhaps he didn't have the footwork needed to be a top WCO QB.

He can probably still excel in a Coryell, Perkins-Earhardt derivative system with a decent OL and run game.
Britt:  
mrvax : 12/14/2017 12:17 pm : link
Good freegin' job.

To the OP: By designating Eli a post June 1st cut, the Giants only save $10M this year not 20.
RE: RE: I am sooo sick of hearing this  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13740286 NINEster said:
Quote:
In comment 13740007 superspynyg said:


Quote:


Eli is still the same qb he was in the past with one exception. He is playing in a system that does not fit him. He is not a spread offense qb. McAdoo's system only works if you have a Rodgers like qb.

We need to go back to good oline and a real good run game. When we won superbowls under Coughlin we have good olines, great def and two good rbs (Bradshaw, Jacobs, Ward) and Eli would make solid and timely passes and tons of 4th qrt drives.




What is this I keep reading that McAdoo's system needs a mobile QB??

Is that implying it's a version of the WCO so f'd up that nobody is ever going to be open and hence you need a QB to scramble all the time?


WCO is legit for any kind of QB, mobility a plus. This is the offensive system designed to get the ball out fast compared to other systems.

This was the same offense that Eli was getting the ball out lightning fast in 2015.

Now if you're talking about needing touch on short throws or good footwork, that's another story. Watch a Bill Walsh video and you'll see him obsess over footwork. Steve Young said he if you chopped the torso off in the film he could tell how well the QB did based on the footwork.

To call McAdoo's system garbage because it's WCO is misinformed.


Honest question: how many Giants games do you watch in their entirety? You're talking to guys that watch every snap, every play.... And yeah, this was was the whole purpose for giving Geno a chance to play over Eli Manning. Mobility.

I wouldn't pretend to know the in's and out's, or strengths and weaknesses of San Francisco's offense/players, because I haven't watched them.
This year  
mrvax : 12/14/2017 12:17 pm : link
should be 2018.
Can the Giants make the playoffs next year?  
AcesUp : 12/14/2017 12:20 pm : link
Absolutely. They can hire the right coach, throw big FA dollars at the OL and overdraft a RB to win 10 games next year. But aren't we just repeating the same mistakes we made in the 2015 offseason?

We haven't won a playoff game since our last SB 6 seasons ago. We only went 1 and done last year after spending 200M in FA before the bottom fell out this year. We've been mediocre to bad to a joke (this year) for the better part of a decade. It's time. There are some bad contracts on the books and we're staring down the barrel of a QB transition, we should take our medicine this offseason and next year with an eye on 2019. I'd prefer to set the table for the next era than cling onto the past.
RE: Can the Giants make the playoffs next year?  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13740307 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Absolutely. They can hire the right coach, throw big FA dollars at the OL and overdraft a RB to win 10 games next year. But aren't we just repeating the same mistakes we made in the 2015 offseason?

We haven't won a playoff game since our last SB 6 seasons ago. We only went 1 and done last year after spending 200M in FA before the bottom fell out this year. We've been mediocre to bad to a joke (this year) for the better part of a decade. It's time. There are some bad contracts on the books and we're staring down the barrel of a QB transition, we should take our medicine this offseason and next year with an eye on 2019. I'd prefer to set the table for the next era than cling onto the past.


Why can't we do all that AND draft a QB in round 1? Wouldn't a good O-line and running game benefit the next QB as well?
It may be possible  
AcesUp : 12/14/2017 12:37 pm : link
But you're not choosing a lane, which makes it a tricky tightrope with the fans and media. We also have some tidying up to do with the cap and it may be wise to start absorbing some of that dead money in a transition year to clear the books for a time when we're more likely to compete.

And really at the end of the day, we've been playing this patchwork game for years and it's just getting old.
The O-line has to be repaired and solidified....  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 12:38 pm : link
nothing patchwork about it. It has to be done regardless of what happens at QB.
Cosell's Gilbride's  
crick n NC : 12/14/2017 12:43 pm : link
Opinions aren't relevant here, because the player evaluators on this forum do not need some expert telling them what their own eyes see from their TV's each week.

Player evaluation is so simple!
How are you fixing the OL?  
AcesUp : 12/14/2017 12:45 pm : link
Not the greatest year in FA, you're going to roll the dice and overpay. This makes absorbing dead money on the OV and JPP deals in the coming offseasons more difficult. It's probably happening through the draft and would require more than one offseason to do it the right way.
RE: How are you fixing the OL?  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13740365 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Not the greatest year in FA, you're going to roll the dice and overpay. This makes absorbing dead money on the OV and JPP deals in the coming offseasons more difficult. It's probably happening through the draft and would require more than one offseason to do it the right way.


Yeah, I don't know... But I don't think the O-line is as far away as others. Sometimes it's just one guy that can come in and get in between two of these guys that we have to elevate their play. For instance, a veteran guard or tackle that can stop gap for a season or two while we wait to draft more can make a big difference.

Look at what Andrew Whitworth is doing for the Rams line.
i think Eli goes  
UESBLUE : 12/14/2017 12:48 pm : link
why stay and after a 2-4 start fans start calling for the new QB and we go thru this whole Eli benching bs again. He doesnt need the headaches.
Bottom Line  
DonnieD89 : 12/14/2017 12:53 pm : link
Eli still has it, just does not have the supporting cast due to injuries to the WR corps, below average running backs and horrific offensive line. I think he still has a couple years left in him. I am not overly impressed with the incoming QB crop. I am hoping the further groom Webb, get Saquon Barkley or an OT for there first pick.
Whitworth was a huge miss  
AcesUp : 12/14/2017 12:54 pm : link
If a guy like that, who was willing to take what is essentially a 2 year deal, is out there...I'm ok with it. I'd prefer to go that route than throw a huge 5 year deal at a younger, speculative, middling FA. Like I said, it's possible, I just think it's much more difficult when taking all the factors into account.
amazing..building a team around door. a. 37 year old  
micky : 12/14/2017 1:02 pm : link
qb
RE: amazing..building a team around door. a. 37 year old  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13740415 micky said:
Quote:
qb


English please?
Salary cap  
Thegratefulhead : 12/14/2017 1:25 pm : link
He is not playing like a 20 million dollar player. He is not worth what we are paying him. He shown a near linear decline in efficiency. He used to play better at the end games, now he plays worse. Sure you could win with him, he is dependent, we don't have the time or resources because of bad contracts, one of which is his to get him the players he needs. Geno played just as well. Knock on Geno is turnovers...hello...Knock on Manning is turnovers. Trade Manning, Trade Beckham and cut the other bad contracts then reload. Let the new QB learn the ropes next year. More dead money comes off the following year, another good set of draft picks, we could contend for decade if we get the right QB. Playing Manning is just slowing us down.
RE: RE: amazing..building a team around door. a. 37 year old  
micky : 12/14/2017 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13740417 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13740415 micky said:


Quote:


qb



English please?


so anal aren't you?
RE: RE: RE: amazing..building a team around door. a. 37 year old  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13740471 micky said:
Quote:
In comment 13740417 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13740415 micky said:


Quote:


qb



English please?



so anal aren't you?


Please explain to me how building a strong offensive line and solid running game is akin to building around a 37 year old QB rather than just sound roster building philosophy?
If Eli was average at best  
djm : 12/14/2017 1:40 pm : link
his numbers would look even worse than they did from 2014-2017. HE's better than average he's just not Aaron Rodgers. Give Eli a good running game and he'd do just fine.
and lest we forget  
djm : 12/14/2017 1:44 pm : link
Eli will still play well in big games.

I'll say it again and again. GIVE ELI A RUNNING GAME! Trust me....I promise you if this team found a good to great running attack Eli would clean up. He wouldn't be perfect he's never been perfect but he will win. He might still throw two INTS that look terrible but he will also throw 3 TDs and win the games.

Give. Eli. A. Running Game. He never loses more than 8 games in a season if the running game is there. Never. And he usually wins 9 or more.

With the pass catchers this team has at its disposal the Giants need to focus all their resources on the ground game. Fix the OL and add a RB and this team will win. The D isn't that bad.

I agree with the OP ...  
DonQuixote : 12/14/2017 1:49 pm : link
... if you are not part of the future, you are in the way.

Love Eli Manning, want him on the team, but that is a lot of money for a stopgap QB.

If the front office feels that we are not contenders next year, and I don't think we are, then what is the point?
RE: RE: You can't be serious!  
KingBlue : 12/14/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13740033 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13740028 Doomster said:


Quote:


I am sooo sick of hearing this
superspynyg : 10:23 am : link : reply
Eli is still the same qb he was in the past



Don't take his word for it:

Kevin Gilbride:



Quote:


Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.

“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.

“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”



Greg Cosell:



Quote:


Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”



Sy'56:



Quote:


Eli Manning: 31/46 – 228 yards – 1 TD/2 INT. The two interceptions at the end of the game have an asterisk next to them. It was desperation time and he had to force things. The drops by Shepard and Lewis were killers and, at this point, both inexcusable but expected, ironically. Manning didn’t have a lot of “minus” throws and he just doesn’t have time to go through a lot of reads. This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with from what I have seen.

"This truly has become the worst situation in the league for any QB to work with."



John Mara:



Quote:


"I'm concerned about our team. We still think he can play. We obviously have to get better around him."



John Gruden, when asked if he'd come back to coach the Giants, said "I would consider it if Eli Manning was there.

When the professionals give their evaluation of what's wrong, it's not hard to see the common denominator. It's not Eli's ability.

And before someboyd inevitably zeros in with laser like focus on the "dependent player" thing from Cosell, Eli has always been that. We have not put the players around him to succeed for the past five years, and THAT is the difference. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why Jerry Reese is fired. They did not build around their franchise QB's strengths. Gilbride said it himself. “As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.” Yet we built and installed an offense that relied on just that. Even worse that we did it in Eli's prime years. It's easy to go back to 2013 and see Jerry Reese deflecting from his poor job of building an offensive line with the "skittish" comments, and then to McAdoo's constant criticisms of "having to play in dirty pockets", or the other excuse that line play is poor around the league. It's all bullsh-t. We knew what he could and couldn't do and we did not put a team around him that supported those strengths. And we still haven't. Hopefully the new coach and GM will do that if he decides to stay.

And it doesn't have to be ALL WORLD TALENT everywhere as some will use hyperbole to state. But it has to be at least competent, and we have not had that.

Now you can whine and complain about Eli lovers, apologists, declines, salaries, etc.... But the truth is right in front of you if you want to see it.



This +1
RE: and lest we forget  
Thegratefulhead : 12/14/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13740517 djm said:
Quote:
Eli will still play well in big games.

I'll say it again and again. GIVE ELI A RUNNING GAME! Trust me....I promise you if this team found a good to great running attack Eli would clean up. He wouldn't be perfect he's never been perfect but he will win. He might still throw two INTS that look terrible but he will also throw 3 TDs and win the games.

Give. Eli. A. Running Game. He never loses more than 8 games in a season if the running game is there. Never. And he usually wins 9 or more.

With the pass catchers this team has at its disposal the Giants need to focus all their resources on the ground game. Fix the OL and add a RB and this team will win. The D isn't that bad.


The stats do not back that up. He has been in decline. It not typical for a 37 year old QB to start playing better, they get worse. He has not scored more than 30 points in 2 years. Trade or cut Eli, invest the savings and or draft picks into the OL and let young player learn. Much better for the immediate and more distant future of the franchise. Or continue overpaying for Eli and field a 2 win franchise.
Yet in 2015 they scored over 30 points seven times...  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 1:55 pm : link
including nearly 50 points in one game.

Then Coughlin was fired and McAdoo took over. But yeah, I'm sure it's Eli.
Let me see....  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 1:59 pm : link
who should I defer to when I'm trying to get an honest evaluation/snapshot of a player's current abilities?

Kevin Gilbride, Greg Cosell, Jon Gruden, John Mara, Pat Kirwan, Bill Polian, Gil Brandt, or even BBI's own Sy'56?

Or thegratefulhead?

Gonna have to think about that one awhile....
It’s not building a team around him to win next year or even in 2019  
PetesHereNow : 12/14/2017 2:00 pm : link
If you don’t fix the lack of an offensive line and credible running game, a young draft pick isn’t succeeding in that situation either. The best thing to do for the future of the team is to a) get a coach/GM in here that knows how to build a team from the lines out, and b) let Eli start for another year or two and then hand it over to a Webb/young QB who won’t get their ass kicked from snap 1.

The supporting cast stinks. The offensive scheme stinks. The linebackers suck other than Goodson who cannot stay healthy. Just inserting Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield does not fix anything. On the list of things wrong with this team, Eli’s decline is on there but it is like number 13 on a list of 20.
RE: It’s not building a team around him to win next year or even in 2019  
Britt in VA : 12/14/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13740543 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
If you don’t fix the lack of an offensive line and credible running game, a young draft pick isn’t succeeding in that situation either. The best thing to do for the future of the team is to a) get a coach/GM in here that knows how to build a team from the lines out, and b) let Eli start for another year or two and then hand it over to a Webb/young QB who won’t get their ass kicked from snap 1.

The supporting cast stinks. The offensive scheme stinks. The linebackers suck other than Goodson who cannot stay healthy. Just inserting Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield does not fix anything. On the list of things wrong with this team, Eli’s decline is on there but it is like number 13 on a list of 20.


It's so simple, I don't see why others can't see this.
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