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NFT: The Last Jedi (Full Spoilers)

ZGiants98 : 12/14/2017 10:08 pm
Anybody see it yet? What were your thoughts? I thought it was great.
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RE: RE: RE: I guess  
GMAN4LIFE : 12/18/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13746089 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13745920 GMAN4LIFE said:


Quote:


In comment 13745891 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.



this!!!!!!!!!!!



It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.


meh... weak still. would have been better to use his fucking force and kick ass one last time. nope. Rian knows better i guess.
RE: _  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/18/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13745962 Giant Fan Dan said:
Quote:
From half way thru A New Hope on Luke was selfless and would throw himself into a hopeless situation to do what's right and save his friends/family/galaxy. In this movie his own student, Ben Solo, his own flesh and blood, goes dark so Luke runs away and hides like a bitch?

In Jedi Luke felt a little tiny bit of light left in the baddest dude in the galaxy, Darth Vader, so he went on a suicide mission to try to redeem Anakin Skywalker. In this new movie he senses darkness in Ben so his first instinct was to murder him in his sleep?
I don't know who the character was in this movie but it certainly wasn't Luke Skywalker.

If you're a lifelong Star Wars fan that cares about these characters then this movie is steaming hot stinking garbage, if you're new to Star Wars or just never cared that much then you'll have no idea what's going on and will love the movie - it is a very pretty film and porgs are cute.


Good points. And ultimately, he was abandoning Leia. That didn't make any sense. At least they used the old projection of her to snap him back to reality, but this is Luke.
RE: RE: RE: I guess  
RobCarpenter : 12/18/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13746089 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13745920 GMAN4LIFE said:


Quote:


In comment 13745891 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.



this!!!!!!!!!!!

It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.


Obi Wan did the same thing in New Hope, after all.
People wanting greatness in Last Jedi  
RobCarpenter : 12/18/2017 1:25 pm : link
Need to realize that no Star Wars film made after the first three will ever be original, and that it's the originality that contributes in part to the greatness of the original three films.

Also Return of the Jedi is brutal to rewatch, all those damn Ewoks. At least Last Jedi had a reference to cute aliens without making them central to the plot.

Also Eric  
Giantology : 12/18/2017 1:42 pm : link
You can say the same thing about lazy storylines/re-used plots with literally every Star Wars movie. Google "Star Wars Ring Theory" - you'll find similarities and callbacks throughout every Star Wars film, from the original trilogy, to the prequel trilogy, to this sequel trilogy.
RE: Also Eric  
UConn4523 : 12/18/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13746269 Giantology said:
Quote:
You can say the same thing about lazy storylines/re-used plots with literally every Star Wars movie. Google "Star Wars Ring Theory" - you'll find similarities and callbacks throughout every Star Wars film, from the original trilogy, to the prequel trilogy, to this sequel trilogy.


That's a big part of my argument. There's a lot not to like in the originals if you really want to critique it the way we do in 2017. But they are sacred so that's off limits. If Return of the Jedi came out now with the current tech but same story and dialogue it would be terrible.
My huge problem  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 12/19/2017 9:19 am : link
Outside of all the awful, contrived writing that doesn't make sense is the treatment of the character Luke. Mark Hamill has said that he "fundamentally disagrees with every decision Rian Johnson made about Luke" and I couldn't agree more with that.

I think most of the conclusions Luke came to after Kylo Ren turned are really cool. Retreating to a remote planet for a little while to reflect and mourn are perfectly understandable. Deciding to not train another Jedi is also a really understandable course of action given his past history.

You know what's not understandable though? A Jedi Master sitting alone on an island for what, a decade or more? All while the power of the Sith (which he is majorly responsible for) waxes and threatens his sister, his best friend, and all of the other people he has ever known and loved. Without a Jedi to combat the Sith, the Rebels are doomed.

So this character who feels like such a failure because his apprentice killed a handful of other apprentices is just going to let the whole galaxy burn rather than try to clean up the fucking mess he caused? He's going to sit alone on his island waiting to die while he emos away the universe? I thought Kylo Ren emo'd pretty hard in TFA, but I'm pretty sure if they had an emo off, Luke would win hands down.

So we get to Yoda, who decides to FINALLY give Luke a peptalk. It's an awesome message about the greatest lessons coming from failures and to pass on those lessons to students.

But you know what never happens? That. That NEVER happens because Luke never sees Rey again. She's already gone. I'm sure he'll be back as a force ghost, but aren't we over force ghosts deus ex machina-ing all over the Star Wars universe?
I hope the little kid at the end with his broom stick  
Motley Two : 12/19/2017 9:20 am : link
and his Schwartz ring is inspired just enough to go out and eat a mouthful of blaster fire one day.
i bet the finale will be basically the ending of Episode 2  
GMAN4LIFE : 12/19/2017 9:26 am : link
.
Episodes 7, 8 and 9  
Tom from LI : 12/19/2017 9:30 am : link
should have been set 500 to 1000 years in the future. Where it was forgotten about the jedi and sith. Then the Force Awakens.. and you could have went in any directions without crapping on the OT. Everything would have to be relearned and new stuff could have been introduced. It could have been a quest to find knowledge about the force while battling a new evil..

But like Disney does with everything.. they ruin it to make a buck.

The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi seem rudderless..

Thanks Mickey for crapping on my childhood.

I really enjoyed TLJ  
NNJ Tom : 12/19/2017 11:54 am : link
OK, it didn't answer the two major questions left over from TWA. But people get a grip, its a movie. You all seem butt hurt over this.
I don't understand why Star Wars movies have to answer every question  
ThreePoints : 12/19/2017 12:04 pm : link
I do not get it. Life doesn't work that way, either. Why does a movie need to?
Finn/Rose subplot on Canto Bight  
RobCarpenter : 12/19/2017 4:33 pm : link
To me, it serves a valuable purpose by showing an entire class of people that are not affected by the war between the First Order/Resistance -- and actually benefit from the war. None of the earlier Star Wars films really explored this issue much.

Also it has that Joseph Gordon Levitt cameo.
RE: RE: and Jedi's being confilcted  
UConn4523 : 12/19/2017 4:41 pm : link
In comment 13745798 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13745790 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


is literally THE story of a Jedi. How many times do we here about darkness being suppressed in favor of following the light? That's the entire point of these movies. If it happened with Anakin, then with Luke, why wouldn't it happen with Rey, Kylo, etc?

I get you want a completely new universe, but that isn't what's being advertised. Its the continuation of the current story. You can't just erase the foundation because you think its a carbon copy.

Something tells me you weren't going to like it no matter what.



Uconn... we'll agree to disagree. I could argue you were going to like it no matter what. (And it's not just that there was conflict, but it was the same exact same scene in the Emperor's chambers except this time the body guard got involved).

I came out of TFA thinking, "That was good...it felt like the old one." Then it dawned on me that I just watched "New Hope" again. I wrote it off to them rebooting the series. But this one was just too similar to Jedi.

Again, I like the character. Rey and Poe are really cool. Finn has his moments.


Didn't see this until now for some reason but I think its fair to say I'd probably like a new Star Wars movie until they prove that I shouldn't. That said, I think Rogue One was better than both of TFA and TLJ but a pretty good margin so there's varying levels of how much I like it.

But I also take things into consideration outside of just the story. The action sequences have been stellar and I'm really enjoying the cinematography. For me that counts for something and TLJ had some of the coolest sequences I've ever seen in this genre.
They mishandled Luke's death, and it's looming over the entire movie.  
eclipz928 : 12/19/2017 7:35 pm : link
Let's be blunt about this: since this new trilogy was announced most people have been looking forward to seeing Mark Hamill's Skywalker do some badass Jedi battle stuff on screen - much in the same way we got that payoff with Yoda in Episode III and Vader in Rogue One. But yet there was clearly a decision to make his character develop to being this more zen-like version before ultimately killing him off.

Overall the film had several flaws, but more than enough great moments to compensate. However that final sequence, where Kylo Ren instructs his fleet to direct their entire arsenal towards destroying Skywalker, becomes a huge let down once it's revealed that he was never really there physically. The touching last moments he has with Leia becomes lessened as well.

I get what they were doing creatively with the film and his character, but I think this was one of those times when they should have just gave the fans what they wanted. In other words they really should have had Luke wreck some shit before going out. The entire ending, and maybe even the entire movie, was dampened by one of the most essential characters in the franchise fading away into non existence without much of a grand send off. I think that was a mistake.
I will preface this by saying I haven't seen the movie yet,  
Matt M. : 12/20/2017 1:42 pm : link
but it was spoiled for me. I will reserve judgement about the manner in which they killed Luke until I see it. But, what I don't get is why they made a big deal to include Luke and Han if only to cast them aside. It is a copout to say this trilogy is not about Luke, but the new characters. The entire saga was about Luke and the Skywalker family. It just doesn't make sense to have all that buildup in the Force Awakens for this.

I know they are supposed to be ignoring Lucas' vision and the expanded universe. But, in virtually everything post ROTJ, Luke becomes about the most powerful Jedi in history. He was supposed to be capable of some pretty amazing things. There were even interesting storylines with him experimenting in the Dark Side (only to return) in order to save his nephew (not Kylo) in one storyline.

I am obviously jaded because I loved Luke and Han. I admit that watching Han die in FA was one of the saddest and emotional scenes I've ever watched in a movie. I felt like part of my childhood died with him. To do this to Luke seems even worse. I now understand all the restrained comments Hammill made about not liking this vision for Luke.

It's fine to make a new trilogy for new fans. But, why would you take what the old fans hold so dear and shit all over it?

The real shame of it is, supposedly, Leia was supposed to be more prominent in Episode IX. But, now no Luke, Han, or Leia and Chewie is relegated to the sidelines. Weird that of all the original characters, the only one that supposedly figured prominently in this trilogy was Leia when she was the least capable of pulling it off. And, just to harp on FA for a second, for me, the worst thing they did was have Chewie walk right past Leia when they returned from Starkiller after Han dies. That was out of character for both of them. They put these original trilogy characters in, only to ruin them or have them completely out of character. Why bother?
not all fans of Luke, Han and co are pissed  
UConn4523 : 12/20/2017 1:49 pm : link
I was never a big Luke fan but I loved Han. His death was a big deal in TFA, it made sense, and it drove the plot ahead in a plausible fashion.

As for Luke, we don't know how he will be handled yet so I'll reserve judgement on that one.
RE: not all fans of Luke, Han and co are pissed  
Matt M. : 12/20/2017 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13748669 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I was never a big Luke fan but I loved Han. His death was a big deal in TFA, it made sense, and it drove the plot ahead in a plausible fashion.

As for Luke, we don't know how he will be handled yet so I'll reserve judgement on that one.
I go back and forth about Han's death. I'm not so much angry it happened, but rather how it happened. To me, it wasn't clear if he knew that was going to happen or if he really thought he could convince Kylo to return to Ben. A guy like Han, I can't see him sacrificing himself for Kylo to have eased that burden but remain in Snoke's control.
I think Luke's astral projection was this..  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/20/2017 2:09 pm : link
Quote:
Luke becomes about the most powerful Jedi in history. He was supposed to be capable of some pretty amazing things. There were even interesting storylines with him experimenting in the Dark Side (only to return) in order to save his nephew (not Kylo) in one storyline.


Have never seen a Jedi do anything remotely like that. Across systems he was able to "be there." A big lightsaber battle between him and Kylo? That would have steered this towards the prequels and would have been too predictable.
RE: I think Luke's astral projection was this..  
Matt M. : 12/20/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13748701 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:


Quote:


Luke becomes about the most powerful Jedi in history. He was supposed to be capable of some pretty amazing things. There were even interesting storylines with him experimenting in the Dark Side (only to return) in order to save his nephew (not Kylo) in one storyline.



Have never seen a Jedi do anything remotely like that. Across systems he was able to "be there." A big lightsaber battle between him and Kylo? That would have steered this towards the prequels and would have been too predictable.
I haven't seen this one yet, but I think the original idea was scrapped. Rey and Luke were supposed to have battled the Knights of Ren on the planet they were training. I read Rey was to battle Kylo, while Luke manhandled the other Knights. I believe Luke never even had to ignite his lightsaber.

As for the other storyline I mentioned, it was in a series of EU books about 10 years ago.
Just came home from seeing it a 2nd time  
Jints in Carolina : 12/21/2017 1:15 am : link
I have to say that I enjoyed and appreciated it a lot more. I think the first time I was so hyped that the cons in this movie (as previously addressed) really pissed me off. I did not want to like ANYTHING about this movie.

The 2nd time, I let myself get immersed in the movie. I still am bothered by how Luke went out, but I enjoyed the experience much more.
I liked it. There were a lot of concerns about this and that,  
Ira : 12/21/2017 2:59 am : link
but it was a fun movie. I'll see it again when it comes out on dvd.
Saw the film th is past weekend  
Modus Operandi : 12/21/2017 5:04 am : link
Once again, it draws heavily on several of the scenes, plots of the previous films. It isn't so obvious as the TFA but it's there.

Here's what I liked - The scenes between Luke and Rey and the best in the film. They flesh out both characters and sets up a bond for what most of us expected to be a teacher/student bond. Some here have mentioned that these scenes were too short, but Luke and Ben in ANH weren't long. Luke and Yoda in ESB weren't long either. Just snippets. I do think the originals paced better.

I didn't have a problem with the Finn/Rose casino scenes. I thought they were fun, though ultimately superfluous to the plot.

I thought the humor bits hit the mark more than they did in TFA. Battle and action scenes were top notch, thought I don't think many will be talking about them or remember them as fondly 10 or 20 years from now like we do in remembering the AT-AT Hoth invasion.

Here's what I didn't like - Silver Surfer Leia. Enough said here. Just mind-numbingly dumb.

Two constants through the history of the Jedi and Sith. The Sith Lords always have one apprentice, who ultimately strikes down or turns on his master. The Jedi Masters, even the best, lose pupils to the dark side. Yoda lost Count Dooku - who was driving force of the Clone Wars - and went on to train thousands of new Jedi. Owi-Wan lost Anakin - who hunted the Jedi nearly to extinction and destroyed whole planets - yet went on to train Luke. Go back to every Jedi Master. It's a constant.

Yet the last Jedi in the Galaxy gives up the ways of the Force because his nephew turns to the dark side and burns down a school? Balance of the force is a central theme. Luke forgets all that, blocks the Force entirely while drinking troll titty milk and playing scrabble with some nuns? Come the fuck on.

Casting/characters are hit and miss. Rey is a home run. I'm not quite sure what the heck Finns purpose is. It's not Boyega's fault. The character as written is just poor. Total waste of time. Rose was too. I think that's why some people have a problem with the casino scene. If they involved more interesting and fleshed out characaters, it'd be fine. I guess the other guy is supposed to take up the lovable rogue thing that Solo did so well, but I'm not sure why he's there either. Finally, why waste an actor of the caliber of Benicio Del Toro for such a throwaway character? He should have been the focal point of that second act, and not some poorly planned mission that was moot anyhow. Utterly bizarre.

Snoke was a total letdown. No explanation whatsoever of where Snoke came from, how he came to rule over the Order or how he met Kylo Ren. Most powerful dark Lord in galaxy falls for a force pull and the big showdown turns out to be Rey and Kylo battling Samurai. The fuck was I watching.

The original films weren't without faults, but the characters were fleshed out. You understood their motivations and how they fit into the story. They didn't rely on lame throwaways like Rose to show Finn he's real boy. That's why the originals have endured.

The film was definitely better than TFA. Hard not to be. Decent effort. I wouldn't call it fantastic.


This movie might have done more damage to Luke  
Motley Two : 12/21/2017 8:12 am : link
than the prequels did to Vader.

#notmyskywalker
I am a huge Star Wars fan and so is my son  
PatersonPlank : 12/21/2017 9:40 am : link
We thought this movie sucked. Everything that made Star Wars unique has been removed or greatly minimized. So all you're left with is a mediocre action flick not even as good as Justice League. After 1 hour I was looking at my watch. There were those 10 minutes at the end when Luke got involved that was good, the audience actually perked up, but that was it.
RE: Mr. Bungle  
PatersonPlank : 12/21/2017 9:42 am : link
In comment 13745882 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
OK... so it copied elements of Empire and Jedi.

I feel like the character in Zoolander who says, "Am I taking crazy pills?" when you guys can't see they simply copied the same storylines from the earlier ones.

The most important scene in Jedi was the Emperor/Luke scene. The most important scene in this film was the Snokes/Rey scene. They were virtually identical. Luke tried to save Vader. Rey tried to save Ren (you are not understanding my point there).


Eric, my son and I were predicting the next event before it happened, it was that predictable.
here's my thing on the movie... and im sure Eric from BBI can agree  
GMAN4LIFE : 12/21/2017 9:56 am : link
The problem is TFA is just irrelevant now when you goto watch it again. The whole movie is predicated on finding Luke Skywalker, so watching now is pretty jarring knowing it was a big waste of time. TFA builds up Snoke as this big bad villain as even Han Solo mentions him to his son, but now you go back and watch it and he is almost a punchline for dying like a bitch. Every Rey scene where it is implied there is something big about her regarding her heritage (the Lightsaber calling her, Luke's music, etc) was just a big fake out. And of course then ending of TFA is a Spaceballs Parody as Luke just chucks the saber in the next movie.
RE: I am a huge Star Wars fan and so is my son  
GMAN4LIFE : 12/21/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13749531 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
We thought this movie sucked. Everything that made Star Wars unique has been removed or greatly minimized. So all you're left with is a mediocre action flick not even as good as Justice League. After 1 hour I was looking at my watch. There were those 10 minutes at the end when Luke got involved that was good, the audience actually perked up, but that was it.



which is why i found it strange i was more entertained by Justice league than this movie
It was okay  
Jay on the Island : 12/23/2017 9:43 am : link
The Snoke death scene was surprising and it was cool to see Rey and Kyle fighting together. It was obvious what was going to happen later though as who would have been main villain with snoke gone. Of course Kylo wasn’t planning on returning to the light. It was a similar too what Vader said to Luke as he wanted to join forces to defeat the emperor in order to rule the galaxy as father and son.

The Rey lineage was ridiculous though as was TFA plot. They risk All to find Luke and it almost ends up being a waste. I hope Lando is in episode 9. The resistance is nearly defeated and they could use a place to hide and some financial support. Introducing Lando now makes a lot of sense.
this was the worst star wars movie ever  
GiantsFan84 : 12/25/2017 3:18 pm : link
let me preface this by saying, it was an entertaining movie. so from an entertainment standpoint, sure it was fine. from a humor standpoint ok sure, it was fine. the kids will love it and it will make a lot of money

but that's the only good i can say about it. here is why it was awful.

1. Luke.

He always knew there was good in Vader. So much so that he surrendered to him and refused to kill him. And Vader rewarded that faith by proving him right. Now all of a sudden, he senses a little darkness in Kylo and he tries to kill him in his sleep? Really? That is a complete betrayal to his character.

We were also led to believe that Snoke turned Kylo dark, but the tipping point seemed to be Luke now not Snoke. There was a HUGE debate about whether or not Luke turned dark in Return of the Jedi. Snoke could have pretended to be Vader's force ghost in visions or done any number or things to cause Kylo to turn on Luke by lying about Luke really being dark now and have Kylo and other trainees leave Luke and go to him for training and then returning to kill Luke and destroy his temple. Luke then left knowing he needed to find help. This was a super easy thing to do and they fucked it up. Oh and it also could have explained the Knights of Ren.

Luke is also not one to run from a fight and abandon his friends and sister. We're supposed to believe now he lives in shame and depression while his friends and sister are fighting for their lives? We were told he left to go find the original Jedi temple to in theory help find ways to beat the Last Order, which would have been perfectly fine and in-line with his character.

Instead, well you all saw the movie.

2. Force ghosts can shoot lighting and effect the physical world with their force powers? Now look they've hinted at something like this many times. "Kill me Darth and I will become more powerful than you can ever imagine". But all these dead Jedi have all these powers and see all these evil things happening and they what just choose to ignore it? Very dumb.

3. Snoke was a big deal and we absolutely needed to know more about him or at a minimum needed a fight scene with him vs rey and kylo or a snoke vs luke scene.

4. Rey's parents. This was a HUGE subplot in Force Awakens. Everyone wanted to know, including Rey. She definitely thought Luke may be her father in Force Awakens. And when she meets Luke she never even brings it up to him? Come on.

5. The whole casino thing was dumb. Just very dumb.

6. Why did the new admiral not tell Poe of the plans to evacuate even during the mutiny? Historically dumb. She should have told him, then cut out the whole 20 minutes of the casino trash and filled it with something better. Like say I don't know, Rey's training!!!!!

7. We got almost no scene's of Rey training with Luke. How do you fuck that up?
RE: _  
JOrthman : 12/25/2017 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13745962 Giant Fan Dan said:
Quote:
From half way thru A New Hope on Luke was selfless and would throw himself into a hopeless situation to do what's right and save his friends/family/galaxy. In this movie his own student, Ben Solo, his own flesh and blood, goes dark so Luke runs away and hides like a bitch?

In Jedi Luke felt a little tiny bit of light left in the baddest dude in the galaxy, Darth Vader, so he went on a suicide mission to try to redeem Anakin Skywalker. In this new movie he senses darkness in Ben so his first instinct was to murder him in his sleep?
I don't know who the character was in this movie but it certainly wasn't Luke Skywalker.

If you're a lifelong Star Wars fan that cares about these characters then this movie is steaming hot stinking garbage, if you're new to Star Wars or just never cared that much then you'll have no idea what's going on and will love the movie - it is a very pretty film and porgs are cute.


Some articles have came out where Mark Hamil was upset with the direction they took his character. He basically stated the same things you just said.
RE: They mishandled Luke's death, and it's looming over the entire movie.  
JOrthman : 12/25/2017 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13748042 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
Let's be blunt about this: since this new trilogy was announced most people have been looking forward to seeing Mark Hamill's Skywalker do some badass Jedi battle stuff on screen - much in the same way we got that payoff with Yoda in Episode III and Vader in Rogue One. But yet there was clearly a decision to make his character develop to being this more zen-like version before ultimately killing him off.

Overall the film had several flaws, but more than enough great moments to compensate. However that final sequence, where Kylo Ren instructs his fleet to direct their entire arsenal towards destroying Skywalker, becomes a huge let down once it's revealed that he was never really there physically. The touching last moments he has with Leia becomes lessened as well.

I get what they were doing creatively with the film and his character, but I think this was one of those times when they should have just gave the fans what they wanted. In other words they really should have had Luke wreck some shit before going out. The entire ending, and maybe even the entire movie, was dampened by one of the most essential characters in the franchise fading away into non existence without much of a grand send off. I think that was a mistake.


Yep, this times a 1000
Not sure this deserves a separate thread,  
Mr. Bungle : 12/26/2017 12:25 pm : link
especially since we don't need multiple Star Wars threads on a Giants message board. But...

...it seems that Disney is preparing for Solo: A Star Wars Story to bomb at the box office in May 2018.

(I could have told them that as soon as this terrible idea was green-lighted.)

link - ( New Window )
I just left the movie.  
Rick5 : 12/26/2017 3:57 pm : link
I was 10 in 1977, so I have been watching these movies since the very beginning. I thought FA was good (not great). I liked it even less after I saw it a second time. I thought Rogue One was pretty bad. After seeing the low rotten tomatoes audience ratings, I went to this movie today with low expectations. I loved it! This will probably end up as my 3rd favorite after episodes 4 and 5. I really enjoyed it.
I enjoyed it  
PaulBlakeTSU : 12/26/2017 4:40 pm : link
but I'm not very hard to please with Star Wars. Give me the John Williams score, a few light-saber scenes and I'm generally good to go. Like all of the Star Wars films, there was a lot of cheesy/hokey and dialogue but that was to be expected.

I don't mind the revelation that Rey's parents were nobodies. I always thought it was more than a coincidece that she (Daisy Ridley) looked like the actor who played young Anakin (Jake Lloyd) and wasn't Anakin born to a nobody slave mother?


One thing I didn't understand was when Kylo and Rey were fighting off Snoke's red guardsmen, they relied on mere physical swordsmanship and almost lost because of it. Yet, in other scenes, we see Kylo strangle or throw people across the room using the force and a mere gesture. Were they unable to use the force during that battle against those red guys?

The worst part for me is  
AnyoneButPhilly : 12/27/2017 6:38 am : link
when Finn and Rose are captured and they are surrounded by hundreds of first order troops and the go into this long, drawn out execution process when at the last minute the rebel ship plows through the ship. cut to the next scene where there are no enemy troops in sight, everything is on fire, and miraculously Finn and Rose are unharmed
This movie  
family progtitioner : 12/27/2017 9:23 am : link
and the FA only reinforced what I already knew. I'm not a kid anymore and they really don't do much for me.

That said, as another poster remarked, they would have been much better served if they set the sequels hundreds of years in the future where they would have to reinvent the legendary jedi against this evil mystical force of newly awakened sith. I think they did the series and overall cannon a big disservice by relying upon nostalgia to bring in fans.
Saw it yesterday - I liked it  
MetsAreBack : 12/27/2017 1:57 pm : link
1. Where is Poe from? Obviously he's kind of the younger Hans and will probably end up with Rey is the next gen Leia. But when she was in pain with Snoke he woke up suddenly from his 'stun' and went to the window to look at Snokes ship. So he felt some force within.

2. Agree with above - there is no way Rey comes from nothing. They'll be a reveal next episode.

3. Historically the younger apprentices have killed their Sith mentors to assume power. Sidius did it to his while sleeping, etc. Was cool to see Kylo do that in a scene.

4. Surprised they kept Leia alive when they could have found a way to end in this episode.

5. Admiral Akbar deserved a better send off than what he received in this movie. An unsung star of the original trilogy!
Going in I thought they would have  
eclipz928 : 12/27/2017 2:35 pm : link
maybe re-shot some scenes to kill off Leia. Thought for sure the scene when she got sucked in to space would be the moment they used - it would have been a fairly decent and dramatic ending for her.

In hindsight, now I REALLY wished they would have killed her off at that moment. Her character was not all that essential for the remainder of film, and we would have been spared the whole "Leia Poppins" thing they did.

And yes, I agree that killing off Admiral Akbar offscreen was pretty lame. If they were going to do that then they should have never even brought his character back in Force Awakens.
Okay - here's my take  
gidiefor : Mod : 12/27/2017 3:49 pm : link
I too am a huge Star Wars fan

I loved the film - it's one of the top two in the entire franchise in my opinion. For me the plot lines worked.

Regarding Luke -
1) a bunch of you are getting all worked up over him and I think it's because you are too tied up on - a) his relationship with Kylo Ren and b) what happened to him at the end. I was not bothered by either of these things: Ren is a bad two-faced dude, and Luke may have seen these traits in him, and seen that he was untrustworthy, and rightly been disturbed by it. This is different than believing he could get through to his father, who he felt had some good in him, who he never knew as a child, and was unburdened by some of his early history (apples and oranges in my opinion).

2) his discorporation at the end fit in beautifully with his lessons to Rey on the force and his scenes with Yoda. Luke did not die as some of you are describing it. He went on to be "at peace" according to Leia and Rey and neither of them was saddened by it. A true Jedi does not die. He became one with the force. He and his view of the force will be part of the final movie - I guarantee it. And as a precursor, he showed great mastery of power over Ren without being in his corporeal form, and he was able to take Jedi lessons from another disincorporated Jedi during the movie.

I loved the Rey character. She is bold and she displays amazing power and oneness with the force. Much greater than Luke ever did, and she is a stronger character than Kylo Ren -- She is his match in every way.

great flick



I will also add  
MetsAreBack : 12/28/2017 1:04 am : link
It dawned on me today that Snook was cut at the torso by two light sabers and died

Anakim was cut at the torso and had both arms cut off too and had his head doused with fire... survived. Is this a sign that skywalkers are stronger than Sith Lords or just bad screen play?
As corny as it might be  
illmatic : 12/28/2017 1:11 am : link
I don't think we've seen the end of Snoke. They still need a major villain for episode IX and I don't think Kylo will be it. I think Snoke revives somehow. It would explain the massive scars on his head from previous... well, deaths. And it also might explain why they didn't tell us anything about him yet. They could be waiting to drop it in the final movie. Yeah, it would be kind of lame but I can see them going that route. A cranky Kylo Ren trying to convince Rey to join him through episode IX would be pretty boring. They need a bigger villain than that.
RE: I will also add  
Modus Operandi : 12/28/2017 1:17 am : link
Quote:
Anakim was cut at the torso and had both arms cut off too and had his head doused with fire... survived.


That seems a rather harsh for a few measely political comments when a simple banning would have sufficed.

Gidie and Eric have gone medieval.
I'm sorry these children's movies didn't have the depth  
Nitro : 12/28/2017 2:20 am : link
some of you expected. The amount of intellectual backfill applied to a paper-thin world Lucas heavily borrowed from other sources always amused me. The depth was never there; character naming conventions are nonsensical, places are woefully reductive (ice planet, forest planet, desert planet, city planet), The Empire makes Sauron seem nuanced with shades of grey, various contradictions film to film and so on. Releasing these expectations is probably the best way moderately enjoyable. I don't see this sort of hand-wringing over Justice League or whatever other nonsense is farted out to the viewing public annually.

I read this comment elsewhere and felt it was pitch perfect:

"These new Star Wars movies are clearly manufactured by focus groups and marketing executives and lawyers and business analysts. They are art in the same way that an Audi commercial is art.

Seriously, stop watching Star Wars. They're going to keep making shit movie after shit movie until it stops being acceptably profitable. We'll be in our 70's and new Star Wars movies will still be coming out every other year."
RE: I'm sorry these children's movies didn't have the depth  
eclipz928 : 12/28/2017 8:03 am : link
In comment 13756777 Nitro said:
Quote:

"These new Star Wars movies are clearly manufactured by focus groups and marketing executives and lawyers and business analysts. They are art in the same way that an Audi commercial is art.

Seriously, stop watching Star Wars. They're going to keep making shit movie after shit movie until it stops being acceptably profitable. We'll be in our 70's and new Star Wars movies will still be coming out every other year."

I feel that this is a good characterization of some movie franchises - the Michael Bay/Transformers movies are the first to come to mind. I don't think it's fair to quite lump Star Wars into that category. Over the span of several films, also books and television, there has been the development of a story that is richer and has more depth than the "robot go boom" theme that Bay has manufactured in recent years. It's reasonable for people to have had higher expectations for TLJ.
....  
yankees78 : 12/29/2017 1:37 pm : link
I wanna see it again.

I saw it tonight  
lawguy9801 : 12/30/2017 1:02 am : link
It's funny reading people getting so worked up and angry on this thread. I'm no Star Wars junkie, but it was like every other Star Wars movie with its high points and obvious faults. Bottom line is, I and my family walked out of the theater having been very entertained.

By the way, go back and re-watch the original trilogy. Some comically bad acting and dialogue, but TFA and TLJ are somehow not up to your lofty standards? No one watching any Star Wars movie should expect perfection or that there won't be multiple moments when you'll have to suspend disbelief. Like so much else in life, don't have such high expectations, and you won't be disappointed.
RE: Okay - here's my take  
Matt M. : 1/1/2018 8:03 am : link
In comment 13756158 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I too am a huge Star Wars fan

I loved the film - it's one of the top two in the entire franchise in my opinion. For me the plot lines worked.

Regarding Luke -
1) a bunch of you are getting all worked up over him and I think it's because you are too tied up on - a) his relationship with Kylo Ren and b) what happened to him at the end. I was not bothered by either of these things: Ren is a bad two-faced dude, and Luke may have seen these traits in him, and seen that he was untrustworthy, and rightly been disturbed by it. This is different than believing he could get through to his father, who he felt had some good in him, who he never knew as a child, and was unburdened by some of his early history (apples and oranges in my opinion).

2) his discorporation at the end fit in beautifully with his lessons to Rey on the force and his scenes with Yoda. Luke did not die as some of you are describing it. He went on to be "at peace" according to Leia and Rey and neither of them was saddened by it. A true Jedi does not die. He became one with the force. He and his view of the force will be part of the final movie - I guarantee it. And as a precursor, he showed great mastery of power over Ren without being in his corporeal form, and he was able to take Jedi lessons from another disincorporated Jedi during the movie.

I loved the Rey character. She is bold and she displays amazing power and oneness with the force. Much greater than Luke ever did, and she is a stronger character than Kylo Ren -- She is his match in every way.

great flick


I really enjoyed the film. I was not even really upset Luke died. I am upset with how he died. I have been reading for years about how powerful Luke had become. It would have been more acceptable to me if he really did show up at the end and walk out to face the entire First Order assault. Had he actually just one badass thing there and then sacrificed himself facing Kylo, I would have been less upset.

But, even as it is, I have had a couple of days to digest the film and have less of a problem with it. I think Luke will play a role, not a prominent one, as a force ghost training Rey.

For me, the worst part of the film was Leia pulling herself back on the ship. I k ow at the time of filming they had no way of knowing Carrie Fisher would die, so they couldn't just have Leia die there. But that scene was ridiculous not just for her surviving, but then how would they open the door to the bridge to pull her in without doing more damage to the ship?
I didn't even have a problem with the 2nd act, as many did  
Matt M. : 1/1/2018 8:09 am : link
I didn't find it pointless. It showed their desperation, for one thing. If Rose survives, it sets up a potential love triangle, or at least point of conflict for Rey.

I think Kylo is fine as the villain in the next film. He is powerful, but unbalanced, so his rage and obsessions will weaken the otherwise unbeatable First Order.

Two things will be interesting to see how they handle. Nobody answered their call. So where will they possibly get enough support to actually fight the First Order? The intent was for Leia to have played a dominant role in the next film. Now they have to write in her death and the Vice Admiral sacrificed herself. The only real leadership left is Poe, at this point, which is weak.
The other interesting thing is Finn.  
Matt M. : 1/1/2018 8:12 am : link
Last movie everyone was saying the brash flyboy Poe was being set up as the Solo type. It's really Finn. A former stormtrooper who hates the First Order, but really doesn't feel attached to the Resistance. He is more drawn to help because of his feelings for Rey. This sounds an awful lot like Han.
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