Jedi Master dies/fading away...Vader/Ren being conflicted saving Luke/Rey... Jedi training... Rey falling into pit like Luke in and seeing himself/herself, etc. Same movie.
Dern's scene was unexpected? She signed her own death as soon as she stayed. The only surprise was the dumb ass didn't save two-thirds of her fellow rebels by turning her ship around immediately and launch herself into the fleet. It was expected. The delay wasn't.
that her ultimate goal of sacrificing herself wasn't immediately clear. Maybe it was just me. And like I said, it was one of the coolest visuals of the series.
is literally THE story of a Jedi. How many times do we here about darkness being suppressed in favor of following the light? That's the entire point of these movies. If it happened with Anakin, then with Luke, why wouldn't it happen with Rey, Kylo, etc?
I get you want a completely new universe, but that isn't what's being advertised. Its the continuation of the current story. You can't just erase the foundation because you think its a carbon copy.
Something tells me you weren't going to like it no matter what.
but not as blatant as TFA and ANH similarities, imo.
I didn't hate the movie, but was a bit underwhelmed.
Best scenes were:
- Snoke death / Rey & Kylo fight vs guards
- Lightspeed cuts huge ship in half
- Luke projection vs Kylo on Crait
Everything else was just "meh" to me. I feel like this could have been really, really amazing if they trimmed all the fat and gave slightly more time to the good stuff.
is literally THE story of a Jedi. How many times do we here about darkness being suppressed in favor of following the light? That's the entire point of these movies. If it happened with Anakin, then with Luke, why wouldn't it happen with Rey, Kylo, etc?
I get you want a completely new universe, but that isn't what's being advertised. Its the continuation of the current story. You can't just erase the foundation because you think its a carbon copy.
Something tells me you weren't going to like it no matter what.
Uconn... we'll agree to disagree. I could argue you were going to like it no matter what. (And it's not just that there was conflict, but it was the same exact same scene in the Emperor's chambers except this time the body guard got involved).
I came out of TFA thinking, "That was good...it felt like the old one." Then it dawned on me that I just watched "New Hope" again. I wrote it off to them rebooting the series. But this one was just too similar to Jedi.
Again, I like the character. Rey and Poe are really cool. Finn has his moments.
this movie tried to be original and it accomplished it. but in the end it sacrificed the fucking characters i loved. Luke i always envisioned to go out in a blaze of glory. instead dies meditating from afar. big whoop...
2.5 review from me
Pros:
Original story
The Rey and Kylo fight scene
First spaceship battle
Cons: and there are alot of cons
Leia Poppins
Luke dying like a bitch
Snoke dying like a bitch and no clue why he was so powerful
Kylo being a big whiny baby
Finns story
"Buying time" done 50 times in this movie
Waste of Captain Phasma
Dragged for so long
and etc
Absolutely hated:
Luke's dad jokes
the ad's saying not the spoil this when there was nothing to spoil.
this had to be the most original star wars movie only to hurt the original star wars characters character. it was a mess.
as I know it is an unpopular opinion, but I though Last Jedi was just OK. I thought Daisy Ridley was very good, but the rest of the cast was hit and miss. One thing that has always bothered me about Star Wars, and was even more evident in this film, is for how much of a military power the Empire is, they are REALLY incompetent in battle.
The opening scene was ridiculous. One fighter gets through their defenses to destroy the Dreadnaught? How does that happen? And while they catch the rebels in the midst of escaping, that same fighter distracts Empire forces for 5 minutes, and the rebels all escape? All their people and equipment? Absurd.
And then with the finale, one rebel fighter takes off, and EVERY Empire fighter follows him? They are the most incompetent battle legion since F-Troop.
And I'm sorry, but Adam Driver just sucks. He can't act his way out of a paper bag. Kylo Ren is a horrible villain anyway. He's a whiny little bitch, and he's supposed to be the successor one of the great movie villains of all time? It's like following Bill Parcells with Ray Handley.
that her ultimate goal of sacrificing herself wasn't immediately clear. Maybe it was just me. And like I said, it was one of the coolest visuals of the series.
Her flying into the fleet was unexpected judging by my theater.
I don't know why. She was dead anyways and just watching the people die who she had just sacrificed herself for. It was as predictable (and expected) as it comes. Hell, it's been done in other sci-fi reboots (see Star Trek).
I still think there's enough out there that isn't definitive to be able to accurately critique the movie. Some of your list, GMAN, may not actually happen as you think it did.
My 14-year old son focuses big time on the little stuff like you do with the battle scenes. Some of this is done for the drama effect (obviously), but he was bothered by the fact that the last bomber was pretty much ignored while the pilot was waiting an eternity for the remote to fall into her hands. "Dad, there was one bomber left, everyone would have been firing at it!"
My 14-year old son focuses big time on the little stuff like you do with the battle scenes. Some of this is done for the drama effect (obviously), but he was bothered by the fact that the last bomber was pretty much ignored while the pilot was waiting an eternity for the remote to fall into her hands. "Dad, there was one bomber left, everyone would have been firing at it!"
He's right! A lot is done for effect, and to underline how their hatred clouds their decision making, but sometimes it is too ridiculous to stand. And I didn't even get to the Empire guards battle, where Rey and Kylo Ren were outnumbered 3 to 1, and the 2 guards would stand back and watch while one did battle with either Rey or Kylo Ren. This is far from unique to Star Wars, hell, you can go back to the original Three Musketeers and see the same thing, but it is something that always bothers me.
Jedi Master dies/fading away...Vader/Ren being conflicted saving Luke/Rey... Jedi training... Rey falling into pit like Luke in and seeing himself/herself, etc. Same movie.
When Jedi Masters die, they fade away. Are they supposed to change that?
Ren didn't save Rey. He killed Snoke to take over.
Jedi training wasn't in Return of the Jedi. (And Jedis need training, so why is that a problem?)
Luke didn't go into the cave in Return of the Jedi.
My 14-year old son focuses big time on the little stuff like you do with the battle scenes. Some of this is done for the drama effect (obviously), but he was bothered by the fact that the last bomber was pretty much ignored while the pilot was waiting an eternity for the remote to fall into her hands. "Dad, there was one bomber left, everyone would have been firing at it!"
But weren't they X-Wings out there trying to keep the Ties off of the bombers. Probably easier to protect one bomber instead of 5 or 6.
look it was a good movie from a perspective that it Â
shows fresh ideas but it sacrificed alot of the characters i loved to be bitch. Especially Luke... i mean if i envisioned it and their buying time shit. Luke would go out dying in a blaze of glory trying to save rey or his sister. instead he fades on a rock. big whoop...
leia poppins.. good god was that a stupid scene.
And let Finn die saving the resistence. instead he is kept alive by a character that i could care less for. and she didnt die... arrgghhh
I don't think there was anything wrong with how Luke died Â
Snoke wasn't supposed to die in the eyes of pretty much everyone. My packed theater was collectively shocked when it happened. He was supposed to be a focal point heading into ep 9. And Dern's scene may have been the coolest of the entire series which was also unexpected.
Unexpected? She would have been a moron to do anything else, she was dying anyway. Another example for the brilliant military force not being prepared for the painfully obvious.
RE: I don't think there was anything wrong with how Luke died Â
I feel like the character in Zoolander who says, "Am I taking crazy pills?" when you guys can't see they simply copied the same storylines from the earlier ones.
The most important scene in Jedi was the Emperor/Luke scene. The most important scene in this film was the Snokes/Rey scene. They were virtually identical. Luke tried to save Vader. Rey tried to save Ren (you are not understanding my point there).
to admit I also wanted to see Luke go out in a blaze of glory, though thank God they didn't copy the Obi Wan scene where he just allowed himself to be struck down.
RE: buying time... buying time... buying time... buying time... Â
this movie tried to be original and it accomplished it. but in the end it sacrificed the fucking characters i loved. Luke i always envisioned to go out in a blaze of glory. instead dies meditating from afar. big whoop...
2.5 review from me
Pros:
Original story
The Rey and Kylo fight scene
First spaceship battle
Cons: and there are alot of cons
Leia Poppins
Luke dying like a bitch
Snoke dying like a bitch and no clue why he was so powerful
Kylo being a big whiny baby
Finns story
"Buying time" done 50 times in this movie
Waste of Captain Phasma
Dragged for so long
and etc
Absolutely hated:
Luke's dad jokes
the ad's saying not the spoil this when there was nothing to spoil.
this had to be the most original star wars movie only to hurt the original star wars characters character. it was a mess.
I probably could have done without Leia Poppins, but she is a Force user.
Well, Johnson said that he thought Luke's story essentially wrapped up in Return of the Jedi. Or did you expect him to show up with his laser sword and singlehandedly save the galaxy (loved that line)?
While I would have liked to know more abut Snoke, his death was necessary to allow Ren's transition from wanna-be Vader to Dark Side badass (assuming that during the time jump from VIII to IX, he becomes much more sure of himself and ruthless).
In the beginning, Finn is looking to flee to save his own skin. Then he gets a look that the grass is not always greener on the other side. By the end, he's ready to sacrifice himself. I liked the transformation.
Jedi Master dies/fading away...Vader/Ren being conflicted saving Luke/Rey... Jedi training... Rey falling into pit like Luke in and seeing himself/herself, etc. Same movie.
I don’t think Ren is conflicted. The history of the Sith requires the apprentice to kill the master. Ren used Rey to help him become the next Sith Lord.
I feel like the character in Zoolander who says, "Am I taking crazy pills?" when you guys can't see they simply copied the same storylines from the earlier ones.
The most important scene in Jedi was the Emperor/Luke scene. The most important scene in this film was the Snokes/Rey scene. They were virtually identical. Luke tried to save Vader. Rey tried to save Ren (you are not understanding my point there).
I see that they have recycled ideas. (You can put your crazy pills away for now.)
But to say it was the same movie as one (or two) of the originals is not just wrong, it's absurd. What about all the stuff that was new?
I guess the only points that can be made these days are extreme ones.
Poe fails early on. His actions lead to a lot of deaths.
Rey never finds out who her parents are.
Finn and Rose go to the casino to find the codebreaker. They fail. They fail again when he turns. (On that note, I'm glad they had del Toro's character turn. Not everyone buys into the Rebels' cause. Him taking a deal was a great reminder that some pay want a payday).
Luke fails Ben. Luke, in a way, fails Rey.
Snoke fails to kill Rey.
Ben fails to kill Luke. Luke does die, but not before helping the Rebellion slip away. Again, Ben fails to whip out the Rebels.
I also thought the scene in the casino really was important Â
Don't get me wrong... I still go see these movies. (Which is rare for me because I hardly go to the movies anymore). And I'm glad I saw it. But this series has suffered from copying for a while. We've had three Death Star/Planet films. I actually was please that they did Revenge of the Sith because it was different.
I like this reboot mostly because of the characters. They hit a home run with Rey. But TFA was New Hope and this one was basically Jedi. I suggests to me they are afraid of taking chances.
I think there is conflict. You see it when he couldn't kill his mother.
Maybe. I think too many people are assuming he’s conflicted. Anakin still loved Padme when he was full on dark side slaughtering young Jedi.
It’s plausible that he simply has a special bond with his mother. Ren slaughtered people in cold blood in TFA. He killed his father. He used Rey to assume the Sith throne. He has an attraction to Rey, but when she wouldn’t join him, he was prepared to strike her down. He tried to strike down Luke.
This also explains why there wasn’t much of a backstory on Snoke. We’re seeing the backstory live of the next great Sith Lord. No one cried about not seeing the backstory for the Sith Lord the Emperor apprenticed under.
From half way thru A New Hope on Luke was selfless and would throw himself into a hopeless situation to do what's right and save his friends/family/galaxy. In this movie his own student, Ben Solo, his own flesh and blood, goes dark so Luke runs away and hides like a bitch?
In Jedi Luke felt a little tiny bit of light left in the baddest dude in the galaxy, Darth Vader, so he went on a suicide mission to try to redeem Anakin Skywalker. In this new movie he senses darkness in Ben so his first instinct was to murder him in his sleep?
I don't know who the character was in this movie but it certainly wasn't Luke Skywalker.
If you're a lifelong Star Wars fan that cares about these characters then this movie is steaming hot stinking garbage, if you're new to Star Wars or just never cared that much then you'll have no idea what's going on and will love the movie - it is a very pretty film and porgs are cute.
I enjoyed TFA – I get it was a fan service and rhymed a lot with ANH, but it laid groundwork and setup some interesting questions. My major problem with TLJ is that all that groundwork was just blown up for no other reason than getting to say they subverted the formula and took it in a new direction.
I thought a lot of this would be resolved with this flick, but….
Issue with TLJ:
- So does anything setup by TFA really matter? Rey’s parents are no one. Snoke is a gold tracksuit wearing goober who gets offed after his 2nd major scene and gets a post-mortem comedy send off with his tongue hanging out.
- The whole pickup from the last movie is….off. The First Order just blew up a number of planets, but had a major setback. However, despite having Starkiller Base destroyed they are in full pursuit of a massively dwindled Resistance that only has a handful of ships in their entire fleet? I did not really get the feeling that things were so bad for the Resistance post-TFA as they were celebrating and having a grand ole time with what appeared to be considerable forces, but here we are…
- The scale/scope is really small and it doesn’t feel like the main plot really matters. The side-stories obviously expand it, but the plot in simplest form is a slow 4 hour chase scene.
- Leia’s space scene was jarringly stupid – I am watching a movie about space wizards wielding laser beam swords, but this was so ridiculous and poorly CGI’ed that it took me out of the movie for a bit.
- If Holdo just says, “Hey – these escape vessels cloak and we can sneak down to that base – there’s no reason for me to keep a secret from the 92 or so people left alive, but let’s just keep it on the DL for right now” we skip the terrible Finn subplot, said ships don’t get blown up when Finn’s MacGuffin storyline ends in a telegraphed betrayal and a lot of the fat and bloat this film has magically goes away.
- The Finn subplot – Rose is a Jar Jar level character, the undertones/political statement were as subtle as a brick through a plate glass on the Casino world and it added nothing. Throw in a really weird cameo from Maz to kick this train wreck off and this one should have been left in the brainstorming room.
- Disposable characters – Phasma was a cool design to sell a toy, but did nothing. Snoke was a joke. I get there’s precedence for this kind of thing (looking at you Boba), but why bother introducing one dimensional characters that are hyped up to be something and end up being a simple plot device to get thrown away.
- Luke Skywalker toppled the Empire, but is largely dismissed as a myth in TFA. Luke Skywalker takes on 12 AT-ATs and uses Neo's moves from the Matrix against Kylo Ren, witnessed only by the First Order and 42 surviving Resistance members and it proves to be the spark that is going to set off the rebellion/resistance in the final chapter? Nitpicky? Yes, but you can't build a world where he's dismissed as a myth for something that likely everyone in the galaxy was aware of and then legitimized when something on a remote planet that next to no one witnessed occurs.
- Prequel humor – I liked that TFA had goofs, but not “Har Har, meesa poopy” prequel jokes. TFJ leveraged the latter – with a lot of scenes using it often.
Positives of TLJ:
- Adam Driver killed it with Kylo Ren and the interaction between he and Rey were gold. If they focused on this storyline and built more of a tease as to whether or not they would join to reach their ends (Rey thinking she can save him, Ren to achieve his misguided destiny) and setup for the final entry, we could’ve had something here. Add in some proper Jedi training for Rey and leaving early to pursue her own selfish ends (even if it is a heavy borrow from ESB), it would’ve been more interesting and focused on the strength of this film.
- Warp drive through a battle cruiser scene was great.
- It wasn’t just a recreation of Empire Strikes Back, but….I really am not interested in where the few threads that are out there get tied together anymore. The interesting questions have been dismissed and the only real questions I have going into the next one is “So what’s left to do besides topple Kylo and the First Order?” There's no mystery or burning questions, just the inevitable bow on top that seems to open future trilogies to not be tied to the Skywalker clan, as the past is just about fully killed now.
Don't get me wrong... I still go see these movies. (Which is rare for me because I hardly go to the movies anymore). And I'm glad I saw it. But this series has suffered from copying for a while. We've had three Death Star/Planet films. I actually was please that they did Revenge of the Sith because it was different.
I like this reboot mostly because of the characters. They hit a home run with Rey. But TFA was New Hope and this one was basically Jedi. I suggests to me they are afraid of taking chances.
This isn't a reboot. The reboot is coming after Ep 9. We are seeing the conclusion of the original story unfold. I think that's important to keep in mind as there are going to inherently be a ton of parallels.
of the First Order destroyer chasing it. But what was preventing First Order from having another ship or a ton of tie fighters blow past the Resistance ship, get in front of it and then attack it from the front?
I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.
this!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.
Don't get me wrong... I still go see these movies. (Which is rare for me because I hardly go to the movies anymore). And I'm glad I saw it. But this series has suffered from copying for a while. We've had three Death Star/Planet films. I actually was please that they did Revenge of the Sith because it was different.
I like this reboot mostly because of the characters. They hit a home run with Rey. But TFA was New Hope and this one was basically Jedi. I suggests to me they are afraid of taking chances.
And don't get me wrong, I have a lot of criticisms with these new movies, starting with the storytelling, which seems to be a lost art these days, especially in cinema.
I plan on seeing each new Star Wars movie unless they get to a point where the movies are just horrible (like the entire prequel trilogy). I don't think they're close to horrible. I just find them disappointing in the sense of missing some great opportunities.
It's just a shame there's no greatness with these new movies. They had many years to think this all through, and I hoped that they would have come up with something great, instead of just entertaining but flawed.
I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.
this!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.
meh... weak still. would have been better to use his fucking force and kick ass one last time. nope. Rian knows better i guess.
From half way thru A New Hope on Luke was selfless and would throw himself into a hopeless situation to do what's right and save his friends/family/galaxy. In this movie his own student, Ben Solo, his own flesh and blood, goes dark so Luke runs away and hides like a bitch?
In Jedi Luke felt a little tiny bit of light left in the baddest dude in the galaxy, Darth Vader, so he went on a suicide mission to try to redeem Anakin Skywalker. In this new movie he senses darkness in Ben so his first instinct was to murder him in his sleep?
I don't know who the character was in this movie but it certainly wasn't Luke Skywalker.
If you're a lifelong Star Wars fan that cares about these characters then this movie is steaming hot stinking garbage, if you're new to Star Wars or just never cared that much then you'll have no idea what's going on and will love the movie - it is a very pretty film and porgs are cute.
Good points. And ultimately, he was abandoning Leia. That didn't make any sense. At least they used the old projection of her to snap him back to reality, but this is Luke.
I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.
this!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.
Obi Wan did the same thing in New Hope, after all.
Need to realize that no Star Wars film made after the first three will ever be original, and that it's the originality that contributes in part to the greatness of the original three films.
Also Return of the Jedi is brutal to rewatch, all those damn Ewoks. At least Last Jedi had a reference to cute aliens without making them central to the plot.
You can say the same thing about lazy storylines/re-used plots with literally every Star Wars movie. Google "Star Wars Ring Theory" - you'll find similarities and callbacks throughout every Star Wars film, from the original trilogy, to the prequel trilogy, to this sequel trilogy.
You can say the same thing about lazy storylines/re-used plots with literally every Star Wars movie. Google "Star Wars Ring Theory" - you'll find similarities and callbacks throughout every Star Wars film, from the original trilogy, to the prequel trilogy, to this sequel trilogy.
That's a big part of my argument. There's a lot not to like in the originals if you really want to critique it the way we do in 2017. But they are sacred so that's off limits. If Return of the Jedi came out now with the current tech but same story and dialogue it would be terrible.
Outside of all the awful, contrived writing that doesn't make sense is the treatment of the character Luke. Mark Hamill has said that he "fundamentally disagrees with every decision Rian Johnson made about Luke" and I couldn't agree more with that.
I think most of the conclusions Luke came to after Kylo Ren turned are really cool. Retreating to a remote planet for a little while to reflect and mourn are perfectly understandable. Deciding to not train another Jedi is also a really understandable course of action given his past history.
You know what's not understandable though? A Jedi Master sitting alone on an island for what, a decade or more? All while the power of the Sith (which he is majorly responsible for) waxes and threatens his sister, his best friend, and all of the other people he has ever known and loved. Without a Jedi to combat the Sith, the Rebels are doomed.
So this character who feels like such a failure because his apprentice killed a handful of other apprentices is just going to let the whole galaxy burn rather than try to clean up the fucking mess he caused? He's going to sit alone on his island waiting to die while he emos away the universe? I thought Kylo Ren emo'd pretty hard in TFA, but I'm pretty sure if they had an emo off, Luke would win hands down.
So we get to Yoda, who decides to FINALLY give Luke a peptalk. It's an awesome message about the greatest lessons coming from failures and to pass on those lessons to students.
But you know what never happens? That. That NEVER happens because Luke never sees Rey again. She's already gone. I'm sure he'll be back as a force ghost, but aren't we over force ghosts deus ex machina-ing all over the Star Wars universe?
I hope the little kid at the end with his broom stick Â
Jedi Master dies/fading away...Vader/Ren being conflicted saving Luke/Rey... Jedi training... Rey falling into pit like Luke in and seeing himself/herself, etc. Same movie.
I get you want a completely new universe, but that isn't what's being advertised. Its the continuation of the current story. You can't just erase the foundation because you think its a carbon copy.
Something tells me you weren't going to like it no matter what.
I didn't hate the movie, but was a bit underwhelmed.
Best scenes were:
- Snoke death / Rey & Kylo fight vs guards
- Lightspeed cuts huge ship in half
- Luke projection vs Kylo on Crait
Everything else was just "meh" to me. I feel like this could have been really, really amazing if they trimmed all the fat and gave slightly more time to the good stuff.
I get you want a completely new universe, but that isn't what's being advertised. Its the continuation of the current story. You can't just erase the foundation because you think its a carbon copy.
Something tells me you weren't going to like it no matter what.
Uconn... we'll agree to disagree. I could argue you were going to like it no matter what. (And it's not just that there was conflict, but it was the same exact same scene in the Emperor's chambers except this time the body guard got involved).
I came out of TFA thinking, "That was good...it felt like the old one." Then it dawned on me that I just watched "New Hope" again. I wrote it off to them rebooting the series. But this one was just too similar to Jedi.
Again, I like the character. Rey and Poe are really cool. Finn has his moments.
this movie tried to be original and it accomplished it. but in the end it sacrificed the fucking characters i loved. Luke i always envisioned to go out in a blaze of glory. instead dies meditating from afar. big whoop...
2.5 review from me
Pros:
Original story
The Rey and Kylo fight scene
First spaceship battle
Cons: and there are alot of cons
Leia Poppins
Luke dying like a bitch
Snoke dying like a bitch and no clue why he was so powerful
Kylo being a big whiny baby
Finns story
"Buying time" done 50 times in this movie
Waste of Captain Phasma
Dragged for so long
and etc
Absolutely hated:
Luke's dad jokes
the ad's saying not the spoil this when there was nothing to spoil.
this had to be the most original star wars movie only to hurt the original star wars characters character. it was a mess.
The opening scene was ridiculous. One fighter gets through their defenses to destroy the Dreadnaught? How does that happen? And while they catch the rebels in the midst of escaping, that same fighter distracts Empire forces for 5 minutes, and the rebels all escape? All their people and equipment? Absurd.
And then with the finale, one rebel fighter takes off, and EVERY Empire fighter follows him? They are the most incompetent battle legion since F-Troop.
And I'm sorry, but Adam Driver just sucks. He can't act his way out of a paper bag. Kylo Ren is a horrible villain anyway. He's a whiny little bitch, and he's supposed to be the successor one of the great movie villains of all time? It's like following Bill Parcells with Ray Handley.
Her flying into the fleet was unexpected judging by my theater.
He's right! A lot is done for effect, and to underline how their hatred clouds their decision making, but sometimes it is too ridiculous to stand. And I didn't even get to the Empire guards battle, where Rey and Kylo Ren were outnumbered 3 to 1, and the 2 guards would stand back and watch while one did battle with either Rey or Kylo Ren. This is far from unique to Star Wars, hell, you can go back to the original Three Musketeers and see the same thing, but it is something that always bothers me.
Come on...
Jedi Master dies/fading away...Vader/Ren being conflicted saving Luke/Rey... Jedi training... Rey falling into pit like Luke in and seeing himself/herself, etc. Same movie.
When Jedi Masters die, they fade away. Are they supposed to change that?
Ren didn't save Rey. He killed Snoke to take over.
Jedi training wasn't in Return of the Jedi. (And Jedis need training, so why is that a problem?)
Luke didn't go into the cave in Return of the Jedi.
Not the same movie.
But weren't they X-Wings out there trying to keep the Ties off of the bombers. Probably easier to protect one bomber instead of 5 or 6.
leia poppins.. good god was that a stupid scene.
And let Finn die saving the resistence. instead he is kept alive by a character that i could care less for. and she didnt die... arrgghhh
Unexpected? She would have been a moron to do anything else, she was dying anyway. Another example for the brilliant military force not being prepared for the painfully obvious.
see i put to much faith in this to begin with(as you can tell) but how can they fix that... luke will be a blue ghost... big whoop.
also felt kind of bad for general hux. being thrown around and choked throughout the movie. hahaha
I feel like the character in Zoolander who says, "Am I taking crazy pills?" when you guys can't see they simply copied the same storylines from the earlier ones.
The most important scene in Jedi was the Emperor/Luke scene. The most important scene in this film was the Snokes/Rey scene. They were virtually identical. Luke tried to save Vader. Rey tried to save Ren (you are not understanding my point there).
this movie tried to be original and it accomplished it. but in the end it sacrificed the fucking characters i loved. Luke i always envisioned to go out in a blaze of glory. instead dies meditating from afar. big whoop...
2.5 review from me
Pros:
Original story
The Rey and Kylo fight scene
First spaceship battle
Cons: and there are alot of cons
Leia Poppins
Luke dying like a bitch
Snoke dying like a bitch and no clue why he was so powerful
Kylo being a big whiny baby
Finns story
"Buying time" done 50 times in this movie
Waste of Captain Phasma
Dragged for so long
and etc
Absolutely hated:
Luke's dad jokes
the ad's saying not the spoil this when there was nothing to spoil.
this had to be the most original star wars movie only to hurt the original star wars characters character. it was a mess.
I probably could have done without Leia Poppins, but she is a Force user.
Well, Johnson said that he thought Luke's story essentially wrapped up in Return of the Jedi. Or did you expect him to show up with his laser sword and singlehandedly save the galaxy (loved that line)?
While I would have liked to know more abut Snoke, his death was necessary to allow Ren's transition from wanna-be Vader to Dark Side badass (assuming that during the time jump from VIII to IX, he becomes much more sure of himself and ruthless).
In the beginning, Finn is looking to flee to save his own skin. Then he gets a look that the grass is not always greener on the other side. By the end, he's ready to sacrifice himself. I liked the transformation.
Jedi Master dies/fading away...Vader/Ren being conflicted saving Luke/Rey... Jedi training... Rey falling into pit like Luke in and seeing himself/herself, etc. Same movie.
I don’t think Ren is conflicted. The history of the Sith requires the apprentice to kill the master. Ren used Rey to help him become the next Sith Lord.
Hopefully they create an animated series to bridge ROTJ to TFA and explain Snoke in there. Do want to know his back story.
I feel like the character in Zoolander who says, "Am I taking crazy pills?" when you guys can't see they simply copied the same storylines from the earlier ones.
The most important scene in Jedi was the Emperor/Luke scene. The most important scene in this film was the Snokes/Rey scene. They were virtually identical. Luke tried to save Vader. Rey tried to save Ren (you are not understanding my point there).
I see that they have recycled ideas. (You can put your crazy pills away for now.)
But to say it was the same movie as one (or two) of the originals is not just wrong, it's absurd. What about all the stuff that was new?
I guess the only points that can be made these days are extreme ones.
this!!!!!!!!!!!
Poe fails early on. His actions lead to a lot of deaths.
Rey never finds out who her parents are.
Finn and Rose go to the casino to find the codebreaker. They fail. They fail again when he turns. (On that note, I'm glad they had del Toro's character turn. Not everyone buys into the Rebels' cause. Him taking a deal was a great reminder that some pay want a payday).
Luke fails Ben. Luke, in a way, fails Rey.
Snoke fails to kill Rey.
Ben fails to kill Luke. Luke does die, but not before helping the Rebellion slip away. Again, Ben fails to whip out the Rebels.
You kind of forget how big this galaxy is. Not everyone is hellbent on destroying the other side. Some people just want to profit off that conflict.
I like this reboot mostly because of the characters. They hit a home run with Rey. But TFA was New Hope and this one was basically Jedi. I suggests to me they are afraid of taking chances.
Maybe. I think too many people are assuming he’s conflicted. Anakin still loved Padme when he was full on dark side slaughtering young Jedi.
It’s plausible that he simply has a special bond with his mother. Ren slaughtered people in cold blood in TFA. He killed his father. He used Rey to assume the Sith throne. He has an attraction to Rey, but when she wouldn’t join him, he was prepared to strike her down. He tried to strike down Luke.
This also explains why there wasn’t much of a backstory on Snoke. We’re seeing the backstory live of the next great Sith Lord. No one cried about not seeing the backstory for the Sith Lord the Emperor apprenticed under.
In Jedi Luke felt a little tiny bit of light left in the baddest dude in the galaxy, Darth Vader, so he went on a suicide mission to try to redeem Anakin Skywalker. In this new movie he senses darkness in Ben so his first instinct was to murder him in his sleep?
I don't know who the character was in this movie but it certainly wasn't Luke Skywalker.
If you're a lifelong Star Wars fan that cares about these characters then this movie is steaming hot stinking garbage, if you're new to Star Wars or just never cared that much then you'll have no idea what's going on and will love the movie - it is a very pretty film and porgs are cute.
I thought a lot of this would be resolved with this flick, but….
Issue with TLJ:
- So does anything setup by TFA really matter? Rey’s parents are no one. Snoke is a gold tracksuit wearing goober who gets offed after his 2nd major scene and gets a post-mortem comedy send off with his tongue hanging out.
- The whole pickup from the last movie is….off. The First Order just blew up a number of planets, but had a major setback. However, despite having Starkiller Base destroyed they are in full pursuit of a massively dwindled Resistance that only has a handful of ships in their entire fleet? I did not really get the feeling that things were so bad for the Resistance post-TFA as they were celebrating and having a grand ole time with what appeared to be considerable forces, but here we are…
- The scale/scope is really small and it doesn’t feel like the main plot really matters. The side-stories obviously expand it, but the plot in simplest form is a slow 4 hour chase scene.
- Leia’s space scene was jarringly stupid – I am watching a movie about space wizards wielding laser beam swords, but this was so ridiculous and poorly CGI’ed that it took me out of the movie for a bit.
- If Holdo just says, “Hey – these escape vessels cloak and we can sneak down to that base – there’s no reason for me to keep a secret from the 92 or so people left alive, but let’s just keep it on the DL for right now” we skip the terrible Finn subplot, said ships don’t get blown up when Finn’s MacGuffin storyline ends in a telegraphed betrayal and a lot of the fat and bloat this film has magically goes away.
- The Finn subplot – Rose is a Jar Jar level character, the undertones/political statement were as subtle as a brick through a plate glass on the Casino world and it added nothing. Throw in a really weird cameo from Maz to kick this train wreck off and this one should have been left in the brainstorming room.
- Disposable characters – Phasma was a cool design to sell a toy, but did nothing. Snoke was a joke. I get there’s precedence for this kind of thing (looking at you Boba), but why bother introducing one dimensional characters that are hyped up to be something and end up being a simple plot device to get thrown away.
- Luke Skywalker toppled the Empire, but is largely dismissed as a myth in TFA. Luke Skywalker takes on 12 AT-ATs and uses Neo's moves from the Matrix against Kylo Ren, witnessed only by the First Order and 42 surviving Resistance members and it proves to be the spark that is going to set off the rebellion/resistance in the final chapter? Nitpicky? Yes, but you can't build a world where he's dismissed as a myth for something that likely everyone in the galaxy was aware of and then legitimized when something on a remote planet that next to no one witnessed occurs.
- Prequel humor – I liked that TFA had goofs, but not “Har Har, meesa poopy” prequel jokes. TFJ leveraged the latter – with a lot of scenes using it often.
Positives of TLJ:
- Adam Driver killed it with Kylo Ren and the interaction between he and Rey were gold. If they focused on this storyline and built more of a tease as to whether or not they would join to reach their ends (Rey thinking she can save him, Ren to achieve his misguided destiny) and setup for the final entry, we could’ve had something here. Add in some proper Jedi training for Rey and leaving early to pursue her own selfish ends (even if it is a heavy borrow from ESB), it would’ve been more interesting and focused on the strength of this film.
- Warp drive through a battle cruiser scene was great.
- It wasn’t just a recreation of Empire Strikes Back, but….I really am not interested in where the few threads that are out there get tied together anymore. The interesting questions have been dismissed and the only real questions I have going into the next one is “So what’s left to do besides topple Kylo and the First Order?” There's no mystery or burning questions, just the inevitable bow on top that seems to open future trilogies to not be tied to the Skywalker clan, as the past is just about fully killed now.
I like this reboot mostly because of the characters. They hit a home run with Rey. But TFA was New Hope and this one was basically Jedi. I suggests to me they are afraid of taking chances.
This isn't a reboot. The reboot is coming after Ep 9. We are seeing the conclusion of the original story unfold. I think that's important to keep in mind as there are going to inherently be a ton of parallels.
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I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.
this!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.
I like this reboot mostly because of the characters. They hit a home run with Rey. But TFA was New Hope and this one was basically Jedi. I suggests to me they are afraid of taking chances.
And don't get me wrong, I have a lot of criticisms with these new movies, starting with the storytelling, which seems to be a lost art these days, especially in cinema.
I plan on seeing each new Star Wars movie unless they get to a point where the movies are just horrible (like the entire prequel trilogy). I don't think they're close to horrible. I just find them disappointing in the sense of missing some great opportunities.
It's just a shame there's no greatness with these new movies. They had many years to think this all through, and I hoped that they would have come up with something great, instead of just entertaining but flawed.
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In comment 13745891 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.
this!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.
meh... weak still. would have been better to use his fucking force and kick ass one last time. nope. Rian knows better i guess.
In Jedi Luke felt a little tiny bit of light left in the baddest dude in the galaxy, Darth Vader, so he went on a suicide mission to try to redeem Anakin Skywalker. In this new movie he senses darkness in Ben so his first instinct was to murder him in his sleep?
I don't know who the character was in this movie but it certainly wasn't Luke Skywalker.
If you're a lifelong Star Wars fan that cares about these characters then this movie is steaming hot stinking garbage, if you're new to Star Wars or just never cared that much then you'll have no idea what's going on and will love the movie - it is a very pretty film and porgs are cute.
Good points. And ultimately, he was abandoning Leia. That didn't make any sense. At least they used the old projection of her to snap him back to reality, but this is Luke.
Quote:
In comment 13745891 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I didn't want to see Luke Skywalker basically die from exhaustion from meditating.
this!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't just "exhaustion from meditating" - he was sacrificing himself to save his sister and the Resistance. When Kylo and Rey first connect, you hear him say "you aren't doing this, it would tear you apart" - Luke tore himself apart doing that projection to save everyone.
Obi Wan did the same thing in New Hope, after all.
Also Return of the Jedi is brutal to rewatch, all those damn Ewoks. At least Last Jedi had a reference to cute aliens without making them central to the plot.
That's a big part of my argument. There's a lot not to like in the originals if you really want to critique it the way we do in 2017. But they are sacred so that's off limits. If Return of the Jedi came out now with the current tech but same story and dialogue it would be terrible.
I think most of the conclusions Luke came to after Kylo Ren turned are really cool. Retreating to a remote planet for a little while to reflect and mourn are perfectly understandable. Deciding to not train another Jedi is also a really understandable course of action given his past history.
You know what's not understandable though? A Jedi Master sitting alone on an island for what, a decade or more? All while the power of the Sith (which he is majorly responsible for) waxes and threatens his sister, his best friend, and all of the other people he has ever known and loved. Without a Jedi to combat the Sith, the Rebels are doomed.
So this character who feels like such a failure because his apprentice killed a handful of other apprentices is just going to let the whole galaxy burn rather than try to clean up the fucking mess he caused? He's going to sit alone on his island waiting to die while he emos away the universe? I thought Kylo Ren emo'd pretty hard in TFA, but I'm pretty sure if they had an emo off, Luke would win hands down.
So we get to Yoda, who decides to FINALLY give Luke a peptalk. It's an awesome message about the greatest lessons coming from failures and to pass on those lessons to students.
But you know what never happens? That. That NEVER happens because Luke never sees Rey again. She's already gone. I'm sure he'll be back as a force ghost, but aren't we over force ghosts deus ex machina-ing all over the Star Wars universe?