Can anyone explain how all these resale marketplaces are able to get all of the tickets to any event that is even slightly in demand?
I thought they were banning bots in order to try and slow this down, but it seems to be worse then ever.
and we proposed a solution to them to allow any suspect activity to be completely blocked. They refused. They know exactly what they're doing. If all the tix they have available are gone and their fees are paid, they could care less if brokers or real people grab them. They make their margins.
Many venues as well as artists and Live Nation themselves have deals in place with brokers. And in most cases, brokers sign up for every fan club imaginable so they can get access to presales.
It's not corruption though; it's free market economics. The artists and venues tend to price their tickets too low (this is largely intentional so they don't bear the negative PR hit), which allows a large profit margin incentive for the secondary market.
It's simple supply and demand - if the tickets were going dead on the secondary market, the brokers wouldn't be so aggressive in buying them in the first place.
Many venues as well as artists and Live Nation themselves have deals in place with brokers.
It's not corruption though; it's free market economics.
Well, obviously it's economics, but I think it's also corrupt to divert tickets to brokers. If I buy tickets in a regular onsale and flip them, that's the free market at work. But if tickets are withheld and certain people are given first crack at them for the purpose of flipping them, that to me is pretty plainly corrupt.
How so? Does ticketmaster have a policy that say the average consumer has the same right or opportunity to purchase tickets as brokers or repeat customers who purchase tickets from them in bulk?
they're a for profit business not a government entitlement program.
seriously, just asking if that policy exists, I find it frustrating too sometimes, just don't think corruption is the right word you're looking for.
Many venues as well as artists and Live Nation themselves have deals in place with brokers.
It's not corruption though; it's free market economics.
Well, obviously it's economics, but I think it's also corrupt to divert tickets to brokers. If I buy tickets in a regular onsale and flip them, that's the free market at work. But if tickets are withheld and certain people are given first crack at them for the purpose of flipping them, that to me is pretty plainly corrupt.
Is it any different than when a produce supplier gives first crack at their inventory to stores and restaurants who buy in bulk before they sell to the general public? It happens in every industry. If the venues and artists were willing to actually price their inventory properly, there would be no secondary market.
And don't underestimate the leverage that happens behind the scenes. For every hot ticket that the brokers are able to acquire, you can be sure that they're often also getting some distressed inventory foisted upon them. Consumers don't see that because they're only looking for the concerts they want, which are often the concerts that everyone wants and end up going for well above face. No one complains when they get tickets below face value on StubHub, even though it's part of the same infrastructure.
but i've filed for a refund with Amex after being duped into buying Taylor Swift tickets for my daughter through their website.
A) they told us all cheap seats were sold out / unavailable and the only thing left was more expensive "VIP Recognition" tickets
B) AFTER purchasing tickets, not before, they disclosed that the "VIP Recognition package" could not be re-sold or transferred.
IMO both practices amount to fraud, but i'm sure they've covered themselves in some fucking way. Bottom line once we found tickets in 200 level which were 33% of the price, we got thoes... and now i cant get rid of these "VIP" nightmare seats for half-price. This is going to cost me a small fortune and its not right.
And of course, despite talking to their agents within one hour of purchase - they refused to refund any/all of the purchase amount.
At least by disputing the charge I can defer payment for a few months i guess.
but i've filed for a refund with Amex after being duped into buying Taylor Swift tickets for my daughter through their website.
I'd be willing to bet that you actually will win the chargeback, especially if the event has not yet happened. Despite most venue's policies, they obviously CAN give refunds if they so choose. Most fall back on a no-refund policy as a deterrent, but if they're getting a chance to sell the seats again, there's almost no way Amex will side with them.
Interesting perspective. I guess I've never looked at the other side of the coin, but it's hard to believe that these venues/artists are undervaluing these tickets considering these price points in additon to all the nonsense fees.
Interesting perspective. I guess I've never looked at the other side of the coin, but it's hard to believe that these venues/artists are undervaluing these tickets considering these price points in additon to all the nonsense fees.
The thing is, they obviously are underpricing them, otherwise there would be no margin for the ticket brokers to generate a profit. It's hard for a lot of people to accept that because fundamentally you're correct - the tickets are expensive. But look at a venue like MSG - massive population in the greater NYC area and they only have to find 18K people to fill the arena for a concert. Would optimized pricing box out most of the public? Yes, and that's why venues and artists don't price as aggressively as they could - the blowback of being perceived as inaccessible is potentially worse long-term than the profit for each show, but the secondary market doesn't have to worry about that.
I'll even give you a personal example: Hamilton, which is easily the most expensive show on Broadway (and does catch flak for their pricing being so high), still is not even close to being priced properly. I bought a pair of tickets months ago for ~$250 each and just sold them last week on StubHub for $800 each and could easily have gotten closer to $1K each (or more) but didn't want to white knuckle it right to the end (the performance is on 12/27). Obviously the tickets I bought were underpriced even though they were super expensive, right?
titled "Why Is the Live-Event Ticket Market So Screwed Up?"
On a side note, I wondered why some startup hasn't come in and disrupted this space. I was about to order tickets a while ago (roughly $49 a piece) and the fees were half that -- $25 -- for me to print my tickets at home. What bull. But when you learn that these venues make deals, you see why it hasn't changed. Link - ( New Window )
It's not corruption though; it's free market economics. The artists and venues tend to price their tickets too low (this is largely intentional so they don't bear the negative PR hit), which allows a large profit margin incentive for the secondary market.
It's simple supply and demand - if the tickets were going dead on the secondary market, the brokers wouldn't be so aggressive in buying them in the first place.
It's not corruption though; it's free market economics.
Well, obviously it's economics, but I think it's also corrupt to divert tickets to brokers. If I buy tickets in a regular onsale and flip them, that's the free market at work. But if tickets are withheld and certain people are given first crack at them for the purpose of flipping them, that to me is pretty plainly corrupt.
corrupt would imply they have a policy that this practice makes fraudulent or at least dishonest, do they?
How so? Does ticketmaster have a policy that say the average consumer has the same right or opportunity to purchase tickets as brokers or repeat customers who purchase tickets from them in bulk?
they're a for profit business not a government entitlement program.
seriously, just asking if that policy exists, I find it frustrating too sometimes, just don't think corruption is the right word you're looking for.
Quote:
Many venues as well as artists and Live Nation themselves have deals in place with brokers.
It's not corruption though; it's free market economics.
Well, obviously it's economics, but I think it's also corrupt to divert tickets to brokers. If I buy tickets in a regular onsale and flip them, that's the free market at work. But if tickets are withheld and certain people are given first crack at them for the purpose of flipping them, that to me is pretty plainly corrupt.
Is it any different than when a produce supplier gives first crack at their inventory to stores and restaurants who buy in bulk before they sell to the general public? It happens in every industry. If the venues and artists were willing to actually price their inventory properly, there would be no secondary market.
And don't underestimate the leverage that happens behind the scenes. For every hot ticket that the brokers are able to acquire, you can be sure that they're often also getting some distressed inventory foisted upon them. Consumers don't see that because they're only looking for the concerts they want, which are often the concerts that everyone wants and end up going for well above face. No one complains when they get tickets below face value on StubHub, even though it's part of the same infrastructure.
A) they told us all cheap seats were sold out / unavailable and the only thing left was more expensive "VIP Recognition" tickets
B) AFTER purchasing tickets, not before, they disclosed that the "VIP Recognition package" could not be re-sold or transferred.
IMO both practices amount to fraud, but i'm sure they've covered themselves in some fucking way. Bottom line once we found tickets in 200 level which were 33% of the price, we got thoes... and now i cant get rid of these "VIP" nightmare seats for half-price. This is going to cost me a small fortune and its not right.
And of course, despite talking to their agents within one hour of purchase - they refused to refund any/all of the purchase amount.
At least by disputing the charge I can defer payment for a few months i guess.
I'd be willing to bet that you actually will win the chargeback, especially if the event has not yet happened. Despite most venue's policies, they obviously CAN give refunds if they so choose. Most fall back on a no-refund policy as a deterrent, but if they're getting a chance to sell the seats again, there's almost no way Amex will side with them.
The thing is, they obviously are underpricing them, otherwise there would be no margin for the ticket brokers to generate a profit. It's hard for a lot of people to accept that because fundamentally you're correct - the tickets are expensive. But look at a venue like MSG - massive population in the greater NYC area and they only have to find 18K people to fill the arena for a concert. Would optimized pricing box out most of the public? Yes, and that's why venues and artists don't price as aggressively as they could - the blowback of being perceived as inaccessible is potentially worse long-term than the profit for each show, but the secondary market doesn't have to worry about that.
I'll even give you a personal example: Hamilton, which is easily the most expensive show on Broadway (and does catch flak for their pricing being so high), still is not even close to being priced properly. I bought a pair of tickets months ago for ~$250 each and just sold them last week on StubHub for $800 each and could easily have gotten closer to $1K each (or more) but didn't want to white knuckle it right to the end (the performance is on 12/27). Obviously the tickets I bought were underpriced even though they were super expensive, right?
On a side note, I wondered why some startup hasn't come in and disrupted this space. I was about to order tickets a while ago (roughly $49 a piece) and the fees were half that -- $25 -- for me to print my tickets at home. What bull. But when you learn that these venues make deals, you see why it hasn't changed.
Link - ( New Window )
Freakonomics - ( New Window )