Agree, I want TOUGH GIANTS FOOTBALL! I'm sick this candy-ass touch football WCO shit.
Thank you for stating what I and others have been saying for years about Spags. See ya.
Ross HAS to go. They draft with no rhyme or reason. You know, it's always said how Young and Parcells didn't like each other, and there is truth to it, and while they may have disagreed on a particular player chosen, they absolutely agreed on philosphy of the type of team they wanted to be and the type of players needed to get there. Parcells wrote extensively in his book about GYs rating system which was based on Bucko Kilroy's scoring system. And they stuck to it. This regime seems not to believe in anything, and that will hurt any Coach.
If Quinn survives then he is descended from cockroaches :-)
Weak OL and DL. That's why Philly has kicked our asses throughout Â
Manning's tenure here. Whether it was the Hugh Douglas Eagle DL or the Fletcher Cox DL, we could never block them. Same along that OL. We've never consistently pressured McNabb, Garcia, Foles, Sanchez, or Wentz (and any other QB not listed). And with them looking to have an upper tiered elite level QB again, they appear to be the team to beat over the next decade. Fix the lines and get tougher. Then start beating these fucks again with more regularity.
The 1990 New York Giants may have been the most boring offense... but they beat the crap out of the other team. I'm not saying we can or should go to that extreme, but I want a tough offensive identity to go along with a tough, physical defense. That's they way you win football games.
review. This organization is lost. My gut tells me either Gettleman will be hired or Abrams promoted, with Spags appointed the HC. Why? Because from top to bottom, nobody knows what the hell is going on. Mara is gutless and will see familiarity as comfort.
review. This organization is lost. My gut tells me either Gettleman will be hired or Abrams promoted, with Spags appointed the HC. Why? Because from top to bottom, nobody knows what the hell is going on. Mara is gutless and will see familiarity as comfort.
The 1990 New York Giants may have been the most boring offense... but they beat the crap out of the other team. I'm not saying we can or should go to that extreme, but I want a tough offensive identity to go along with a tough, physical defense. That's they way you win football games.
I think we both agree there needs to be a housecleaning of coaches and players.
Spags is gone. So is the rest of the coaching staff.
Have to hope Ross goes after the draft.
I wouldn't resign Pugh, except maybe on a one year prove it deal. But that's moot, because some team will likely offer him a lot more, despite his injury history.
I wouldn't resign Richburg either, except again maybe on a one year prove it deal.
No interest in Jerry or Hart.
Might resign Darkwa as a backup and ST player. No interest in Vereen.
The biggest problem on defense is the near total lack of pass rush from JPP and Vernon. And we're stuck with both for at least another year.
Would make an offer to Kennard. Goodson stays, but he's always injured, and can't cover anyone, which was the report on him coming out of college. We still have no coverage LBs. Ridiculous. How hard is it to find a coverage LB on day three, if you don't expect him to support the run or rush?
Not much to do about Apple except to try again next year with him. But next year is his final chance.
and move OV to OLB. JPP is basically a 3/4 end now any way. Then hope Goodson can stay on the field as one inside backer and Kennard (or someone else) the other. Then we need a LOLB to play the strong side. Sign a low end FA or two who fits the system.
We do need to be tougher on both sides of the ball. The Oline needs help but scheme can help with that some too.
RE: boy Eric, this must be getting painful. But I have to think Sy has it Â
they put together a bruising, punishing 10 minute beat down of the Bills defense.
I'll never forget Dan Dierdorf who after OJ Anderson ran it in from the 1 yard line said..."that was a Super Bowl drive...that was physical domination."
He nails it with the toughness comments. This team has been softer than the Pillsbury doughboy for years.
However, I do think they need to hang on to Eli as the starter for another year because realistically Webb isn't going to be ready to take over next fall, and no rookie will be ready either. So it's Eli or Geno, and which one is going to do a better job of training the young guys? I think that answer is pretty obvious. And I do hope that Geno gets a good shot to start somewhere else. He deserves it.
The Giants have absolutely wasted the last six years of Eli’s career because I have been posting that here since 2013. If I was another owner and interviewing Jerry Reese for a GM job I would demand an explanation on how he could have screwed up a SB MVP’s career so badly. For that reason alone Reese should never get another GM job in the NFL!
My issue is just what the hell has John Mara been drinking over these years and his failure to recognize the consistently poor decisions that have been made and my faith in ownership making the right decision here is shaky, to say the least.
That being said, I am not as pessimistic as Eric but I can certainly understand his feelings. A good, aggressive GM can fix this Oline in one off-season. An investment will need to be made in a veteran and a high draft pick. If this organization is going to get back to where it needs to be then focus has to be on the Oline. I see a new coach sticking with Flowers but moving to RT. I also think Richburg will be back and Fluker at one of the guard spots. I agree about Pugh. Let some other team invest in a guy who has missed 17 games since 2014. Even at his best, I am not sure Pugh is so much better that he deserves a big contract. We have to start treating guys based on their performance and injury history. At this point in time, my number one pick would be Quentin Nelson from ND. Investing in a young QB without fixing the OL is a recipe for disaster. On D, I would try to trade JPP. I never saw what others did and he is invisible most games.
We need a pass rusher...either at DE or LB...another area totally ignored for ten years. I believe Jenkins will be back and Cockrell has been a nice addition. DRC will probably be cut and Apple is as immature as any player the Giants have had in my lifetime. There are many current Giants that need to shape up such as Shepard but there is hope. Again, I would continue to build as Eric mentioned in terms of the TE position and beefing up the OL/DL.
My biggest fear remains who is making this GM decision? But all is not lost if we can rebuild the building blocks...namely the offensive line, the D especially at LB and get back to playing Giants football.
I agreed with all of that. Ross Cockrell is a must re-sign IMO. As for Richburg I hope the Giants sign him to a 1 year prove it deal also. I am not ready to give up on him as he was very good during his second year in the league. I hope that a new scheme and new coaching staff will get him back on track. The Giants should devote their 2nd or 3rd round pick on a player that can play either guard or center.
While McAdoo and Reese both deserved to be fired I think an argument could be made that Marc Ross deserved it more than either man. The Giants drafting declined noticeably once he came aboard. It's even more damning that he did a poor job in Buffalo also. I am hoping that he is the next to go.
I’ll eat my shorts! There is absolutely no freaking way we win this game with that cast of characters. 2-12 here we come. The last two weeks will be our only shot at a win and Cardinals out west will be tougher foe then the Skins at home.
Nyg will not go back to 1990 style offense. Nobody does that anymore.
But they should be tougher and run with more consistency. An offense with Odell Beckham as a feature needs to commit to passing though so I'd look at the 2012 season as the offense the Giants would like to get back to: scored 452 points and could pass but run with Bradshaw and even wilson when They used him.
As Go Terps said I am warming to the idea of Lamar Jackson. That would give nyg two awesome open field players and the fastest o in league.certsinly one way to run🤓
With ANYTHING in that lineup.
We know Reese did not give TC the 'Giants football' team he wanted and in retrospect you cant really figure out WHAT kind of team Reese was building after 2008...other than reaches and weapons.
You CAN build a tough and powerful and balanced team and still play enough of the way the game is going....maybe even one that has speed(which'd be a welcome change); just have to search wider and deeper for those players with a HC that can put the players talents to their best use.
Any GM candidate that tries to snow JM and ST that a major overhaul is not necessary will have a real short interview. Hard to find much more than14 players...about 1/4 of a roster..worth keeping; nor 17/18...about 1/3. Dumping players means getting their replacements...tough to do...unless we can get 30 top 3 rounds picks ...in this draft...for OBJ....before he leaves via FA.
The upside of this cluster.
An opportunity to get out front on morphing the college game into the NFL and still play NFL level football.
although I probably would have used a few more myself...
Too many hole to determine what kind of team you should be. Tough?? Okay but he exemplifies tough...Snacks and Collins only from my count.
You restructure the Offense around OBJ and Engram on Offense (and clearly SS, Ellison and Gallman are complimentary). I can't say Eli Manning because I don't know what he is good for anymore. And unfortunately, as scary as it sounds, we need upgrades at ALL 5 Offensive Line positions. We may be able to shift 1-2 guys around but better play MUST be had at each spot.
You restructure the Defense around our "tough" guys and a few reliable ones. Snacks, DT, OV, Jenkins and Collins are all solid if not moreso. Everybody else is a JAG or replaceable.
The need for new blood at QB, OL and LB are daunting tasks for the new regime coming in...
...after reading your review, I thought about OBJ.
It is not a criticism of our great receiver to say that -- because our offense can't control the line of scrimmage; run the ball or control the tempo (and clock) of the game, OBJ became our drug of choice...
...that is, throw him a quick slant and hope like heck he could break a few long ones for the paltry few times we had the ball.
It's a losing formula.
As you said, this team needs to go out there and pound the other guys.
they put together a bruising, punishing 10 minute beat down of the Bills defense.
I'll never forget Dan Dierdorf who after OJ Anderson ran it in from the 1 yard line said..."that was a Super Bowl drive...that was physical domination."
I miss that.
Don't forget the 9 minute beatdown going into halftime, again mostly on the ground. They had the ball for like 19 minutes in a row. Including halftime, I think the stat was something like 45 minutes the Bills offense wasn't on the field.
It's getting a little bit creepy, it feels like you are in my head. You're nicer than I am, people seem to take these opinions much better when coming from you.
I feel the same with every written word by you eric..yes, I'm " a dinosaur" as well, and want a tough offense, that takes no shit, and can run the ball down opposing defenses when need be. I want a qb that can take the ball down and run and can qb sneaks on very short yardage when need be. an ol ..a la suburbanites lunch pail type who won't get pushed around..yeah there be some mistakes, but not enough to be a consistent theme..
get new blood from top to bottom, with total cultural change from the outside..enough of "within" shit..tired of it. a la mcadoo etc
the Giants have been a shit show on the OL for the last 6 years and have 2 over paid DE's who provide no pass rush.
We have absolutely no LB's( not a fan of Kennard).Goodson appears to be injury prone and is not a 3 down LB. The rest of the LB's absolutely suck.
I wouldn't re-sign Pugh or Richburg unless it is on a 1 year deal. They can't stay on the field. Move Flowers to RT and re-sign Fluker. Then cluster draft the OL this April if we can't rebuild through FA's.
Let's see what we have in Gallman the last 3 games. He showed some promise against the Cowboys last week.
No denying that Eli is in decline and that the Giants totally messed up with Webb this year(not giving him adequate snaps).
I have a feeling that Eli will be wearing a different uniform next year so we need to draft our new QB with our first pick. I really hope it is Rosen.
It will take several years to rebuild this team as we have major holes throughout the whole lineup.
Our new GM and head coach have a lot of work to do to make the Giants contenders again.
RE: I have been saying for years now you win games at the LOS Â
the Giants have been a shit show on the OL for the last 6 years and have 2 over paid DE's who provide no pass rush.
We have absolutely no LB's( not a fan of Kennard).Goodson appears to be injury prone and is not a 3 down LB. The rest of the LB's absolutely suck.
I wouldn't re-sign Pugh or Richburg unless it is on a 1 year deal. They can't stay on the field. Move Flowers to RT and re-sign Fluker. Then cluster draft the OL this April if we can't rebuild through FA's.
Let's see what we have in Gallman the last 3 games. He showed some promise against the Cowboys last week.
No denying that Eli is in decline and that the Giants totally messed up with Webb this year(not giving him adequate snaps).
I have a feeling that Eli will be wearing a different uniform next year so we need to draft our new QB with our first pick. I really hope it is Rosen.
It will take several years to rebuild this team as we have major holes throughout the whole lineup.
Our new GM and head coach have a lot of work to do to make the Giants contenders again.
Depressing but true. This team likely won’t be playoff material for probably 2 years. The new GM needs to find a QB, determine if RB1 is on the roster, rebuild the OL, find better edge rushers while figuring out what needs to be done about the albatross contracts of JPP and OV, find LB’s who can play and stay healthy in the processs, add CB depth and see if Apple fits into the equation, and add quality depth all over the roster. No chance that all gets done in one offseason.
O-line and back are most important as is a quality lb. Giants had no excuse not to sign a back-there were many good ones available this offseason. Backs are not hard to find.
O line will need fa dollars and a shuffle and a pick or two.
Same with lb.
That would be a damn good set of problems to solve. Along with a young qb and a respectable coach that team can make the playoffs.
Gallman is ok I not sure if he is the answer for a #1 RB
but he is decent enough to be part of the solution .
At this point if we could trade down and get Nelson I
would be fine with that adding another 2nd round pick or
depending on who would want to trade up to that spot
I not sure if I would bring Richberg back its too bad about
Pugh I think he is a good starter but the dude has missed too many games .Flowers Fluker Nelson all power type
O-linemen . OV and JPP I agree with just biting the bullet
with both of them . Moss I think is going to pan out he
seems to have all the right skills he seems to love the game as well . We also need a FS and of course at least
three LB's .
Agree, I want TOUGH GIANTS FOOTBALL! I'm sick this candy-ass touch football WCO shit.
Thank you for stating what I and others have been saying for years about Spags. See ya.
Ross HAS to go. They draft with no rhyme or reason. You know, it's always said how Young and Parcells didn't like each other, and there is truth to it, and while they may have disagreed on a particular player chosen, they absolutely agreed on philosphy of the type of team they wanted to be and the type of players needed to get there. Parcells wrote extensively in his book about GYs rating system which was based on Bucko Kilroy's scoring system. And they stuck to it. This regime seems not to believe in anything, and that will hurt any Coach.
If Quinn survives then he is descended from cockroaches :-)
Spags is gone. And I think he knows it.
Yes. I loved watching them physically whip teams
I think we both agree there needs to be a housecleaning of coaches and players.
Spags is gone. So is the rest of the coaching staff.
Have to hope Ross goes after the draft.
I wouldn't resign Pugh, except maybe on a one year prove it deal. But that's moot, because some team will likely offer him a lot more, despite his injury history.
I wouldn't resign Richburg either, except again maybe on a one year prove it deal.
No interest in Jerry or Hart.
Might resign Darkwa as a backup and ST player. No interest in Vereen.
The biggest problem on defense is the near total lack of pass rush from JPP and Vernon. And we're stuck with both for at least another year.
Would make an offer to Kennard. Goodson stays, but he's always injured, and can't cover anyone, which was the report on him coming out of college. We still have no coverage LBs. Ridiculous. How hard is it to find a coverage LB on day three, if you don't expect him to support the run or rush?
Not much to do about Apple except to try again next year with him. But next year is his final chance.
Bring in competition for Rosas and Wing.
We do need to be tougher on both sides of the ball. The Oline needs help but scheme can help with that some too.
Wrong. Sy has been focusing on the other young guys who's arrows are pointing up. Witness the Cockrell discussion on the Dallas review.
Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up.
I'll never forget Dan Dierdorf who after OJ Anderson ran it in from the 1 yard line said..."that was a Super Bowl drive...that was physical domination."
I miss that.
However, I do think they need to hang on to Eli as the starter for another year because realistically Webb isn't going to be ready to take over next fall, and no rookie will be ready either. So it's Eli or Geno, and which one is going to do a better job of training the young guys? I think that answer is pretty obvious. And I do hope that Geno gets a good shot to start somewhere else. He deserves it.
My issue is just what the hell has John Mara been drinking over these years and his failure to recognize the consistently poor decisions that have been made and my faith in ownership making the right decision here is shaky, to say the least.
That being said, I am not as pessimistic as Eric but I can certainly understand his feelings. A good, aggressive GM can fix this Oline in one off-season. An investment will need to be made in a veteran and a high draft pick. If this organization is going to get back to where it needs to be then focus has to be on the Oline. I see a new coach sticking with Flowers but moving to RT. I also think Richburg will be back and Fluker at one of the guard spots. I agree about Pugh. Let some other team invest in a guy who has missed 17 games since 2014. Even at his best, I am not sure Pugh is so much better that he deserves a big contract. We have to start treating guys based on their performance and injury history. At this point in time, my number one pick would be Quentin Nelson from ND. Investing in a young QB without fixing the OL is a recipe for disaster. On D, I would try to trade JPP. I never saw what others did and he is invisible most games.
We need a pass rusher...either at DE or LB...another area totally ignored for ten years. I believe Jenkins will be back and Cockrell has been a nice addition. DRC will probably be cut and Apple is as immature as any player the Giants have had in my lifetime. There are many current Giants that need to shape up such as Shepard but there is hope. Again, I would continue to build as Eric mentioned in terms of the TE position and beefing up the OL/DL.
My biggest fear remains who is making this GM decision? But all is not lost if we can rebuild the building blocks...namely the offensive line, the D especially at LB and get back to playing Giants football.
But they should be tougher and run with more consistency. An offense with Odell Beckham as a feature needs to commit to passing though so I'd look at the 2012 season as the offense the Giants would like to get back to: scored 452 points and could pass but run with Bradshaw and even wilson when They used him.
As Go Terps said I am warming to the idea of Lamar Jackson. That would give nyg two awesome open field players and the fastest o in league.certsinly one way to run🤓
We know Reese did not give TC the 'Giants football' team he wanted and in retrospect you cant really figure out WHAT kind of team Reese was building after 2008...other than reaches and weapons.
You CAN build a tough and powerful and balanced team and still play enough of the way the game is going....maybe even one that has speed(which'd be a welcome change); just have to search wider and deeper for those players with a HC that can put the players talents to their best use.
Any GM candidate that tries to snow JM and ST that a major overhaul is not necessary will have a real short interview. Hard to find much more than14 players...about 1/4 of a roster..worth keeping; nor 17/18...about 1/3. Dumping players means getting their replacements...tough to do...unless we can get 30 top 3 rounds picks ...in this draft...for OBJ....before he leaves via FA.
The upside of this cluster.
An opportunity to get out front on morphing the college game into the NFL and still play NFL level football.
Too many hole to determine what kind of team you should be. Tough?? Okay but he exemplifies tough...Snacks and Collins only from my count.
You restructure the Offense around OBJ and Engram on Offense (and clearly SS, Ellison and Gallman are complimentary). I can't say Eli Manning because I don't know what he is good for anymore. And unfortunately, as scary as it sounds, we need upgrades at ALL 5 Offensive Line positions. We may be able to shift 1-2 guys around but better play MUST be had at each spot.
You restructure the Defense around our "tough" guys and a few reliable ones. Snacks, DT, OV, Jenkins and Collins are all solid if not moreso. Everybody else is a JAG or replaceable.
The need for new blood at QB, OL and LB are daunting tasks for the new regime coming in...
Isn't that what KC tried doing? It doesn't appear to be working out that well for them.
...after reading your review, I thought about OBJ.
It is not a criticism of our great receiver to say that -- because our offense can't control the line of scrimmage; run the ball or control the tempo (and clock) of the game, OBJ became our drug of choice...
...that is, throw him a quick slant and hope like heck he could break a few long ones for the paltry few times we had the ball.
It's a losing formula.
As you said, this team needs to go out there and pound the other guys.
Get back to what works in the northeast.
Gettleman builds that kind of team. The guy took a DT in the 1st round when he already had Star & Short. He means business up front.
And although it’s never that simple, it all fell apart upstairs and on the field when he left.
I'll never forget Dan Dierdorf who after OJ Anderson ran it in from the 1 yard line said..."that was a Super Bowl drive...that was physical domination."
I miss that.
Don't forget the 9 minute beatdown going into halftime, again mostly on the ground. They had the ball for like 19 minutes in a row. Including halftime, I think the stat was something like 45 minutes the Bills offense wasn't on the field.
get new blood from top to bottom, with total cultural change from the outside..enough of "within" shit..tired of it. a la mcadoo etc
the Giants have been a shit show on the OL for the last 6 years and have 2 over paid DE's who provide no pass rush.
We have absolutely no LB's( not a fan of Kennard).Goodson appears to be injury prone and is not a 3 down LB. The rest of the LB's absolutely suck.
I wouldn't re-sign Pugh or Richburg unless it is on a 1 year deal. They can't stay on the field. Move Flowers to RT and re-sign Fluker. Then cluster draft the OL this April if we can't rebuild through FA's.
Let's see what we have in Gallman the last 3 games. He showed some promise against the Cowboys last week.
No denying that Eli is in decline and that the Giants totally messed up with Webb this year(not giving him adequate snaps).
I have a feeling that Eli will be wearing a different uniform next year so we need to draft our new QB with our first pick. I really hope it is Rosen.
It will take several years to rebuild this team as we have major holes throughout the whole lineup.
Our new GM and head coach have a lot of work to do to make the Giants contenders again.
the Giants have been a shit show on the OL for the last 6 years and have 2 over paid DE's who provide no pass rush.
We have absolutely no LB's( not a fan of Kennard).Goodson appears to be injury prone and is not a 3 down LB. The rest of the LB's absolutely suck.
I wouldn't re-sign Pugh or Richburg unless it is on a 1 year deal. They can't stay on the field. Move Flowers to RT and re-sign Fluker. Then cluster draft the OL this April if we can't rebuild through FA's.
Let's see what we have in Gallman the last 3 games. He showed some promise against the Cowboys last week.
No denying that Eli is in decline and that the Giants totally messed up with Webb this year(not giving him adequate snaps).
I have a feeling that Eli will be wearing a different uniform next year so we need to draft our new QB with our first pick. I really hope it is Rosen.
It will take several years to rebuild this team as we have major holes throughout the whole lineup.
Our new GM and head coach have a lot of work to do to make the Giants contenders again.
Depressing but true. This team likely won’t be playoff material for probably 2 years. The new GM needs to find a QB, determine if RB1 is on the roster, rebuild the OL, find better edge rushers while figuring out what needs to be done about the albatross contracts of JPP and OV, find LB’s who can play and stay healthy in the processs, add CB depth and see if Apple fits into the equation, and add quality depth all over the roster. No chance that all gets done in one offseason.
O-line and back are most important as is a quality lb. Giants had no excuse not to sign a back-there were many good ones available this offseason. Backs are not hard to find.
O line will need fa dollars and a shuffle and a pick or two.
Same with lb.
That would be a damn good set of problems to solve. Along with a young qb and a respectable coach that team can make the playoffs.
but he is decent enough to be part of the solution .
At this point if we could trade down and get Nelson I
would be fine with that adding another 2nd round pick or
depending on who would want to trade up to that spot
I not sure if I would bring Richberg back its too bad about
Pugh I think he is a good starter but the dude has missed too many games .Flowers Fluker Nelson all power type
O-linemen . OV and JPP I agree with just biting the bullet
with both of them . Moss I think is going to pan out he
seems to have all the right skills he seems to love the game as well . We also need a FS and of course at least
three LB's .