Because standards and stuff. I mean seriously, if I'm getting laid I want to do it with someone who wants to do it with me, too, not someone that is just doing it for the money. But you know, for a lot of women, especially the ones that are hooked up with the millionaires and billionaires, they are doing it for the money also...just playing the long game. Which, in the end, should be more lucrative. Can't say I blame them.
Where anybody who hits on anybody is going to be run through the mud as a "harasser". Seriously, if you're not interested just say so and move on. This is, of course, not to excuse inappropriate and unwelcomed touching and so forth.
But look at the production assistant with Matt Lauer...saying she "felt like a victim because of his position of power". Yeah? You felt like a victim when you were spreading those legs for him and letting him go to pound town, huh? If you were a willing participant...STFU.
or any company shouldn't be hitting on the women that work for him. It's not a matter of just saying "not interested." Women shouldn't have to go their job and worry about their coworkers making sexual advances. Even worse, they shouldn't have to do the internal calculus of "will rejecting my superior affect my job status?"
For the sake of my kids future lives I am glad it's changing.
Change will help men also. If a work place is a sin pyramid, what place is there in that environment for the shy guy,the little guy, or the moral guy?
Going to workplaces with more clear boundaries will help those guys as well as women to be able to function.
That said, in the short term , some women on NPR were just talking about being in HR meetings where it was decided to ' not hire any more attractive women...to avoid problems'.
Which is backwards or silly obviously but a type of bias and exclusion of its own.
RE: RE: Why don't these guys just pay for some pussy Â
I mean seriously, if I'm getting laid I want to do it with someone who wants to do it with me, too, not someone that is just doing it for the money.
If that's what you really want, you don't hit on your staff, because they can't refuse you, and they certainly can't tell you to fuck off. You hit on your staff because you figure at least some of them will pretend they're enjoying it, and because you can fire the ones that don't.
But look at the production assistant with Matt Lauer...saying she "felt like a victim because of his position of power".
I agree that that story is problematic. She had a consensual affair. He didn't harass her or abuse her or assault her. She felt bad afterward, and he wasn't very nice to her afterward, and there's some reason to think he was badmouthing her.
It's still a pretty shitty story about Matt Lauer. He took advantage of his position, cheated on his wife and behaved like a heel. But he was just a normal cheating husband creep, not a belongs-in-jail creep like some of these other guys.
When will Jerra be outed as a groper! He looks the part of a NYC Â
Some men abuse their power to gain sexual favors. That is wrong, and those men should feel repercussions. I would bet that most workplaces are free from men sexually abusing their female coworkers.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
Some men abuse their power to gain sexual favors. That is wrong, and those men should feel repercussions. I would bet that most workplaces are free from men sexually abusing their female coworkers.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into the conversation.
Every man is not a pervert. We literally have Senate seats being given up and won/lost based on unproven allegations of sexual misconduct. It's really out of control
Some men abuse their power to gain sexual favors. That is wrong, and those men should feel repercussions. I would bet that most workplaces are free from men sexually abusing their female coworkers.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into the conversation.
Every man is not a pervert. We literally have Senate seats being given up and won/lost based on unproven allegations of sexual misconduct. It's really out of control
Some men abuse their power to gain sexual favors. That is wrong, and those men should feel repercussions. I would bet that most workplaces are free from men sexually abusing their female coworkers.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into the conversation.
Every man is not a pervert. We literally have Senate seats being given up and won/lost based on unproven allegations of sexual misconduct. It's really out of control
So the women should stay quiet?
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
Eventually a high profile person who is accused will sue for slander/libel and get a tremendous monetary judgment.
There is no doubt that some men are sleazeballs, and a woman should never have to endure grossness like that at work; but life is not black and white, it's gray- meaning that you can't treat Louis CK blocking a door and masturbating the same way that you treat Jerry Richardson asking a younger secretary if she wants to go out for a drink after work.
We can't keep down this path. Every political election is going to involve a groping scandal of some kind, and in the business world people are going to use this to further their own agenda and bring others down.
The ironic twist in this all is the terrible unintended consequence of less women being put into any position where this is even a possibility. It's not going to help the cause of women advancement. How can a man hire a woman to be his secretary now without thinking of these issues? Wouldn't it be easier if the credentials were equal to hire a man and reduce the possibility of being falsely accused of something?
of power and fame are fawned over and given the time of day by everyone. It must be incredibly tempting to take advantage of that situation to get a little something on the side. What Trump said on the Access Hollywood video is probably very true. The risk is taking boorish behavior or inappropriate advances and throwing it in the same pool as more serious sexual misconduct.
Ultimately...this is probably a good thing that will deter men and women who use their positions to take advantage of others.
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
It's one thing for one person to come forward. When multiple people come forward it establishes a likely pattern of misbehavior. For example, Franken was probably going to skate until more women came forward. Lauer could have survived one accusation, it's the multiple accusations that took him out.
Senate seats given up based on unproven allegations? LOL.
Not sure why this is funny. I hate his politics but Franken is a good Senator for his district. Has been for many years. A stupid non funny photo and an allegation that he vehemently denies has forced him to resign.
Roy Moore too. I hate the guy but he literally lost because of an admittedly doctored yearbook.
It's not a one side political thing. The whole process of how it is working out just stinks for all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm sick and tired of the man bashing. Â
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
It's one thing for one person to come forward. When multiple people come forward it establishes a likely pattern of misbehavior. For example, Franken was probably going to skate until more women came forward. Lauer could have survived one accusation, it's the multiple accusations that took him out.
Fair point but what is the line? 2 women? 3 women? And who is vetting the claims? It will stop once someone sues the pants off of someone who has no proof and ruins their life right back.
In comment 13742316
Notice also that none of these guys are attractive. You don't see George Clooney or Brad Pitt harassing women.
Welll.... have you looked into some of the stories about Ben Affleck? I know someone he was "inappropriate" with and had to tell him off.
There have been some vague rumors about several very VERY good looking movie and TV stars. Some not-so-vague stories that some very attractive guys are about to land on the harasser list.
Clooney and Pitt are not among the names I've heard, but I dunno. these guys are movie stars, they're used getting whoever they want. I was in a roundtable interview with Matthew McConaughey years ago and he talked a little about how crazy it got early on for him, how women were just throwing themselves at him constantly. I think those guys then expect every woman to be available to them.
Honestly, I think that's the mindset Kobe Bryant got into: See pretty girl, fuck pretty girl. "Wait, she didn't want it? What? Everybody wants to fuck me."
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm sick and tired of the man bashing. Â
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
It's one thing for one person to come forward. When multiple people come forward it establishes a likely pattern of misbehavior. For example, Franken was probably going to skate until more women came forward. Lauer could have survived one accusation, it's the multiple accusations that took him out.
Fair point but what is the line? 2 women? 3 women? And who is vetting the claims? It will stop once someone sues the pants off of someone who has no proof and ruins their life right back.
Agreed that it’s hard to make a line and prove with no contemporary evidence. At the same time, it doesn’t look good when these people come out swinging by saying they don’t know/have never met the accuers and evidence is provided, however dated, to the contrary. Couple that with the numbers and suddenly the gray seems a little less so.
I’m with you: innocent until proven guilty. But when you start talking out the sheer volumne on some of these cases, suddenly it becomes hard to ignore. I think the majority would agree: Bill Cosby is a rapist. Long time ago, but that’s a lot of people coming out the woodwork.
Apply that to any number of people who are acused now and have multiple accusations against them. The only difference between them is the level of power acquired and public shame willing to be endured if there is no hard or current evidence. That is it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm sick and tired of the man bashing. Â
Fair point but what is the line? 2 women? 3 women? And who is vetting the claims? It will stop once someone sues the pants off of someone who has no proof and ruins their life right back.
Honestly I am not sure....I guess it depends. In Lauers, case I guess it was NBC. With Weinstein, Lauer, Roy Moore, the press did much of the digging.
How do you prove it anyway? Outside of a rape there is no real way to prove these allegations. It is all hearsay. The evidence in misconduct is going to be from multiple complaints. In the past, most would have just let it slide because it was not worth the push back. Now when one woman comes out of the woodwork...there are more that feel compelled to come out too.
The penalty for false rape accusations should be.. Â
almost as serious as the penalty for rape. It may be one of the few crimes where you can get convicted without having a preponderance of evidence.
I also think it should be illegal for an employer to fire you simply based upon an accusation.
All valid points. The issue is if you put out that kind of mandate then people will have to weigh wether they think will come out with them, and if it was only one or two people, then people will decide not to speak up.
Look at what’s happening today. No one is being charged with anything (beyond statute of limitations), but the number of people coming out is what’s raising awareness. You start putting the onous on the victims and it becomes a completely different ball game. You think Harvey Weinstein is afraid to sue someone if they have to have hard proof before coming forward?
RE: RE: The penalty for false rape accusations should be.. Â
Because standards and stuff. I mean seriously, if I'm getting laid I want to do it with someone who wants to do it with me, too, not someone that is just doing it for the money. But you know, for a lot of women, especially the ones that are hooked up with the millionaires and billionaires, they are doing it for the money also...just playing the long game. Which, in the end, should be more lucrative. Can't say I blame them.
But look at the production assistant with Matt Lauer...saying she "felt like a victim because of his position of power". Yeah? You felt like a victim when you were spreading those legs for him and letting him go to pound town, huh? If you were a willing participant...STFU.
Change will help men also. If a work place is a sin pyramid, what place is there in that environment for the shy guy,the little guy, or the moral guy?
Going to workplaces with more clear boundaries will help those guys as well as women to be able to function.
That said, in the short term , some women on NPR were just talking about being in HR meetings where it was decided to ' not hire any more attractive women...to avoid problems'.
Which is backwards or silly obviously but a type of bias and exclusion of its own.
If that's what you really want, you don't hit on your staff, because they can't refuse you, and they certainly can't tell you to fuck off. You hit on your staff because you figure at least some of them will pretend they're enjoying it, and because you can fire the ones that don't.
It's still a pretty shitty story about Matt Lauer. He took advantage of his position, cheated on his wife and behaved like a heel. But he was just a normal cheating husband creep, not a belongs-in-jail creep like some of these other guys.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into the conversation.
Every man is not a pervert. We literally have Senate seats being given up and won/lost based on unproven allegations of sexual misconduct. It's really out of control
Quote:
Some men abuse their power to gain sexual favors. That is wrong, and those men should feel repercussions. I would bet that most workplaces are free from men sexually abusing their female coworkers.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into the conversation.
Every man is not a pervert. We literally have Senate seats being given up and won/lost based on unproven allegations of sexual misconduct. It's really out of control
So the women should stay quiet?
Notice also that none of these guys are attractive. You don't see George Clooney or Brad Pitt harassing women.
Quote:
From politicians to sports to Hollywood? Are they all fucking perverts?
Notice also that none of these guys are attractive. You don't see George Clooney or Brad Pitt harassing women.
What are you talking about? Al Franken is a dreamboat.
Female House candidate ends campaign after sexual harassment accusations - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 13742432 fivehead said:
Quote:
Some men abuse their power to gain sexual favors. That is wrong, and those men should feel repercussions. I would bet that most workplaces are free from men sexually abusing their female coworkers.
I have a wife and daughter, whom I love and adore, so understand that I want the best for the women in our society. This issue goes both ways, however. How many female teachers have been caught sleeping with their students? A bunch have been caught. Why isn't there a sh*tstorm movement about that? I am sexually harassed by women that I work with all the time. It would be laughed off if I went to management. I would be willing to bet that this #metoo movement is a narrative that was supposed to be pushed along with the first female President, but it got delayed due to the Nov '16 outcome. Weinstein opened the floodgates, and now every Tom, Dick, and Harry is losing their job without any proof having to be brought forth.
This stuff is getting out of hand, and both men and women need to take responsibility.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into the conversation.
Every man is not a pervert. We literally have Senate seats being given up and won/lost based on unproven allegations of sexual misconduct. It's really out of control
So the women should stay quiet?
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
Eventually a high profile person who is accused will sue for slander/libel and get a tremendous monetary judgment.
There is no doubt that some men are sleazeballs, and a woman should never have to endure grossness like that at work; but life is not black and white, it's gray- meaning that you can't treat Louis CK blocking a door and masturbating the same way that you treat Jerry Richardson asking a younger secretary if she wants to go out for a drink after work.
We can't keep down this path. Every political election is going to involve a groping scandal of some kind, and in the business world people are going to use this to further their own agenda and bring others down.
The ironic twist in this all is the terrible unintended consequence of less women being put into any position where this is even a possibility. It's not going to help the cause of women advancement. How can a man hire a woman to be his secretary now without thinking of these issues? Wouldn't it be easier if the credentials were equal to hire a man and reduce the possibility of being falsely accused of something?
Ultimately...this is probably a good thing that will deter men and women who use their positions to take advantage of others.
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
It's one thing for one person to come forward. When multiple people come forward it establishes a likely pattern of misbehavior. For example, Franken was probably going to skate until more women came forward. Lauer could have survived one accusation, it's the multiple accusations that took him out.
Not sure why this is funny. I hate his politics but Franken is a good Senator for his district. Has been for many years. A stupid non funny photo and an allegation that he vehemently denies has forced him to resign.
Roy Moore too. I hate the guy but he literally lost because of an admittedly doctored yearbook.
It's not a one side political thing. The whole process of how it is working out just stinks for all.
Quote:
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
It's one thing for one person to come forward. When multiple people come forward it establishes a likely pattern of misbehavior. For example, Franken was probably going to skate until more women came forward. Lauer could have survived one accusation, it's the multiple accusations that took him out.
Fair point but what is the line? 2 women? 3 women? And who is vetting the claims? It will stop once someone sues the pants off of someone who has no proof and ruins their life right back.
Notice also that none of these guys are attractive. You don't see George Clooney or Brad Pitt harassing women.
There have been some vague rumors about several very VERY good looking movie and TV stars. Some not-so-vague stories that some very attractive guys are about to land on the harasser list.
Clooney and Pitt are not among the names I've heard, but I dunno. these guys are movie stars, they're used getting whoever they want. I was in a roundtable interview with Matthew McConaughey years ago and he talked a little about how crazy it got early on for him, how women were just throwing themselves at him constantly. I think those guys then expect every woman to be available to them.
Honestly, I think that's the mindset Kobe Bryant got into: See pretty girl, fuck pretty girl. "Wait, she didn't want it? What? Everybody wants to fuck me."
Quote:
In comment 13742650 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
No they shouldn't stay quiet but we need to establish real repercussions for accusing someone of sexual assault without being able to produce contemporaneous evidence. What kind of system is it where anyone at anytime can simply make an accusation which results in life changing measures being taken against the accused without a fair opportunity to defend themselves?
It's one thing for one person to come forward. When multiple people come forward it establishes a likely pattern of misbehavior. For example, Franken was probably going to skate until more women came forward. Lauer could have survived one accusation, it's the multiple accusations that took him out.
Fair point but what is the line? 2 women? 3 women? And who is vetting the claims? It will stop once someone sues the pants off of someone who has no proof and ruins their life right back.
Agreed that it’s hard to make a line and prove with no contemporary evidence. At the same time, it doesn’t look good when these people come out swinging by saying they don’t know/have never met the accuers and evidence is provided, however dated, to the contrary. Couple that with the numbers and suddenly the gray seems a little less so.
I’m with you: innocent until proven guilty. But when you start talking out the sheer volumne on some of these cases, suddenly it becomes hard to ignore. I think the majority would agree: Bill Cosby is a rapist. Long time ago, but that’s a lot of people coming out the woodwork.
Apply that to any number of people who are acused now and have multiple accusations against them. The only difference between them is the level of power acquired and public shame willing to be endured if there is no hard or current evidence. That is it.
Fair point but what is the line? 2 women? 3 women? And who is vetting the claims? It will stop once someone sues the pants off of someone who has no proof and ruins their life right back.
Honestly I am not sure....I guess it depends. In Lauers, case I guess it was NBC. With Weinstein, Lauer, Roy Moore, the press did much of the digging.
How do you prove it anyway? Outside of a rape there is no real way to prove these allegations. It is all hearsay. The evidence in misconduct is going to be from multiple complaints. In the past, most would have just let it slide because it was not worth the push back. Now when one woman comes out of the woodwork...there are more that feel compelled to come out too.
I also think it should be illegal for an employer to fire you simply based upon an accusation.
I also think it should be illegal for an employer to fire you simply based upon an accusation.
All valid points. The issue is if you put out that kind of mandate then people will have to weigh wether they think will come out with them, and if it was only one or two people, then people will decide not to speak up.
Look at what’s happening today. No one is being charged with anything (beyond statute of limitations), but the number of people coming out is what’s raising awareness. You start putting the onous on the victims and it becomes a completely different ball game. You think Harvey Weinstein is afraid to sue someone if they have to have hard proof before coming forward?