given that Brady will make any OC look good, but to be fair, he had Kyle Orton and Tebow as his QBs in Denver. I would certainly rather Mara take a chance on him over guys like Fox or Mike Smith.
I want him. That offense has so many open receivers all the time Â
He has the best QB to ever play in the NFL and the best Head Coach to ever coach. He went out on his own once and drowned like a rat, no thanks. That system was there WAY before him, it has nothing to do with him.
But that's how I feel about almost everybody. Except for a few guys who make me want to puke, and a very tiny number of guys that make me think "That looks like a good idea."
I mean McAdoo bad. I don't expect the new coach to have been successful everywhere, but I want a guy who has success somewhere. We can't take another chance on a McAdoo type guy.
given that Brady will make any OC look good, but to be fair, he had Kyle Orton and Tebow as his QBs in Denver. I would certainly rather Mara take a chance on him over guys like Fox or Mike Smith.
but not after seeing that tape where Brady is screaming at him. That indicates lack of respect. Can you imagine someone doing that to Parcells or a guy like Mike Tomlin? Never happen.
So, when I put that tape together with the fact that he lost the team in Denver, I really don' want McDaniels. I think he is smart but not head coaching material. At least not yet.
Tom Coughlin wa not a perfect coach, and they did alright with him. He was known as the task master but many times his team made inexplicable mistakes, had many penalties, and he made horrible game decisions as well. He stuck like glue to Gilbride and an offense of impossible complexity where everything had to be just right for it to work, and that did not happen very often. All that said, the Giants hoisted 2 Lombardi's. Skepticism of McDaniels seems pretty funny when he would (reportedly) be the pick of a highly qualified, new GM with a new vision, after the debacle the Giants have gone through under Reese and for the past 2 seasons, with McAdoo.
I'm all in. If the coach Riddick brings in is Saban, all the better. If they can find another qualified GM who wants David Shaw, and Shaw wants to coach the Giants, then I would be all in on that, but all those scenarios seem like winners. If none of them happen, hopefully they come up with a combination that is equally appealing.
And Tom Brady flips on everyone. He's Tom Brady. He's insanely competitive and a perfectionist. He would flip like that on any OC or offensive coach if he felt it warranted. If Belichick was the play caller, I'm sure there would be sideline meltdowns with him. You gonna get rid of Tom Brady?
who is available that has had nothing but success his whole career.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
Add Tom Coughlin to that list!
All of those guys showed some semblance of success in their first go-round. McDaniels was the equivalent of McAdoo. I get it, the Patriots' success is seductive. But McDaniels hasn't shown anything to suggest that he's anything but a product of the Belichick/Adams environment.
He knows how to run today's NFL offense and has learned leadership under the best ever. It's been almost a decade since Denver and someone is going to deservedly give him another shot - I hope it's NYG.
RE: RE: RE: Someone find me the guy as a head coach Â
who is available that has had nothing but success his whole career.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
Add Tom Coughlin to that list!
All of those guys showed some semblance of success in their first go-round. McDaniels was the equivalent of McAdoo. I get it, the Patriots' success is seductive. But McDaniels hasn't shown anything to suggest that he's anything but a product of the Belichick/Adams environment.
So did McDaniels. He went 8-8 with Kyle Orton at QB and a rookie starting at RB. That's pretty good.
Being a great HC has way more to do with leading, inspiring, commanding respect or men than it does about calling plays. Think back to TC. How many times is TC going to read piexes of literature of war stories to his teams to get them to buy into a team concept? How about bringing in Colonel Gadson? People always look for the wrong characteristics when hirimg for the head coaching position. McDaniels doesn't seem like that guy.
but not after seeing that tape where Brady is screaming at him. That indicates lack of respect. Can you imagine someone doing that to Parcells or a guy like Mike Tomlin? Never happen.
So, when I put that tape together with the fact that he lost the team in Denver, I really don' want McDaniels. I think he is smart but not head coaching material. At least not yet.
Yeah, because Simms never yelled back at Parcells.
Were actually the right ones. Getting rid of Cutler looked crazy at the time, but looking at it now he was right to do so.
He can’t be in charge of personelle though. He was a terrible GM. Picking up Teboe, I really think was him trying to be Little Bill and liking his versatility.
Count me in the group that wants NOTHING to do with him. Â
There is absolutely no evidence that any of the "success" in Foxboro is a result of his coaching. There was little to no difference between the time when he has been there and time when he has not. Same offense, same results, they didn't miss him at all. If he was so great, his offense would have been successful with the Broncos or Rams and it was not. Sure that wasn't a lot of time, but you should have seen a glimpse of promise and there was none.
Plus he is so directly connected to the cheating that I think it would be an embarrassment to bring him in. Two times associated with spygate. Oversaw the only person banned from the NFL for the second spygate scandal. I'm not convinced at all that his "success" isn't due to the many outside the rules tactics employed in Foxboro. The Giants should stay away!
I'd love to hear what Brandon Marshall thinks of him. Â
He has the best QB to ever play in the NFL and the best Head Coach to ever coach. He went out on his own once and drowned like a rat, no thanks. That system was there WAY before him, it has nothing to do with him.
People get so caught up with systems. What kind of offense does he run? What kind of defense does he run? Those questions would be so far do the list. There is only one answer to me and that is that is it depends on our personnel.
Bekichick doesn't have a system. He has a philosophy. Offensively, he believes games are won between the hashes. That is why he loads up on TEs, slot WRs, and pass catching RBs. When they got Moss they changed up their system.
Defensively, they always bounce around between a 3-4 and a 4-3 over the years. Their philosophy is to take away your top 2 options and make you beat them with lesser talent.
Could be proven wrong, but suspicious of every coach coming from under BB.
I think BB is the constant in that success story, and the variables piggyback on him.
Plus specifically with Mcdaniels, it's not the level of success in Denver that bothers me, but the fashion in which he conducted himself and managed the people around him. His fumbling of Jay Cutler was Mcadooesk. Drafting Tebow and the RB in the 1st...
Or maybe I'm allergic to coaches with surnames starting with Mc....give me a couple of years, it will go away ;-)
He has the best QB to ever play in the NFL and the best Head Coach to ever coach. He went out on his own once and drowned like a rat, no thanks. That system was there WAY before him, it has nothing to do with him.
The dude won a playoff game with Tebow. Hardly drowning.
He has the best QB to ever play in the NFL and the best Head Coach to ever coach. He went out on his own once and drowned like a rat, no thanks. That system was there WAY before him, it has nothing to do with him.
The dude won a playoff game with Tebow. Hardly drowning.
No he didn't. John Fox, a guy no one wants did that.
don't like him and know that that offense is Brady and not McDaniels.
So die hard homers who I'm sure spend half their days arguing that Brady is the GOAT say the offense is all Brady? What a surprise.
McDaniels directed the Matt Cassel-led Patriots' offense to a 11-5 record in 2008 and a Brady-less Pats to a 3-1 record last year. Obviously Brady is a huge part of it, but there is a reason BB sticks with McDaniels.
It would be extremely refreshing if McDaniels could bring a bit of what the Patroits do here. I am so tired of stale predictable offense. The Patriots system with works. Adaptable, flexible, unpredictable, build your system around the talent you have, not the other way around. They've reinvented themselves over and over.
I am warming up to zone blocking ala Steelers and Falcons with Mike Munchack as head coach and Chris Morgan as OC . both would be taking steps up in title although Munchack has been a hc in the past.
Problem would be: we need someone to update and invigorate spags system..a consultant or new positional coaches.
and with Munchack and Morgan we would probably need to add someone to make sure a smart book of wr routes integrates with all that new line play.
But from the get go your recruiting would improve
In the lines .
He has the best QB to ever play in the NFL and the best Head Coach to ever coach. He went out on his own once and drowned like a rat, no thanks. That system was there WAY before him, it has nothing to do with him.
The dude won a playoff game with Tebow. Hardly drowning.
No he didn't. John Fox, a guy no one wants did that.
a guy who advocated for Tim Tebow in the first round?
Go read his quotes since then. He’s owned up to his mistakes and said he needs to make sure he listens more (I took that to mean that he should trust the people around him more). This was also 8 years ago - should he be looked down upon forever because he liked Tebow?
He succeeds with the Patriots and fails miserably with the Broncos and Rams. Hmmmm...wonder why that is?
Again, he's viewed in Denver the way we view McAdoo. He wasn't just a coach that didn't work out, he was a fiasco who was ridden out of town on a rail.
He succeeds with the Patriots and fails miserably with the Broncos and Rams. Hmmmm...wonder why that is?
Again, he's viewed in Denver the way we view McAdoo. He wasn't just a coach that didn't work out, he was a fiasco who was ridden out of town on a rail.
This is why you have an interview. You ask the questions. Why did you fail in Denver. What could you have done differently or better?
Believe it or not people learn from mistakes and even failure. Im sure if most people look at their lives honestly. They have as well.
This why you have the interviews. To find these things out. You dont dismiss things out of hand.
but not after seeing that tape where Brady is screaming at him. That indicates lack of respect. Can you imagine someone doing that to Parcells or a guy like Mike Tomlin? Never happen.
So, when I put that tape together with the fact that he lost the team in Denver, I really don' want McDaniels. I think he is smart but not head coaching material. At least not yet.
I have had this same thought. And most of the BB Assistants have not worked out well for other teams. But what do I know
RE: I've been talking up McDaniels since like 2012-13.... Â
moves ever, and savviest, by getting two first round picks and a third round pick for Jay Cutler, and then drafted guys which featured during their Superbowl run.
a change in culture and a guys who is going to bring leadership, that isn't McDaniels. He was disliked by his players, and not because he was too hard on them, but because he wasn't respected. A lot of parallels to McAdoo.
Also, he was a prick to the team's support staff. The training staff couldn't stand him, and the Patriots training staff doesn't like him either.
a change in culture and a guys who is going to bring leadership, that isn't McDaniels. He was disliked by his players, and not because he was too hard on them, but because he wasn't respected. A lot of parallels to McAdoo.
Also, he was a prick to the team's support staff. The training staff couldn't stand him, and the Patriots training staff doesn't like him either.
And that's a good enough reason to go with somebody else.
He has a very bad track record away from the Pats. Pretty much everyone who steps away from Belicheat turns to shit (good fodder for another thread, why are Belicheat’s coaches almost universal failures when they leave him and has there ever been a less fertile coaching tree in the NFL?).
On the other hand, I don’t want someone who hasn’t been a head coach before. And, I don’t want someone who’s been a head coach for a long time, i.e. Jeff Fischer. So in that sense McDaniels is an ideal candidate in a small pool.
I get it, McDaniels was a flop in Denver but at least he’s been in the NFL HC position and that experience is very valuable. He’s bound to be better than before (not difficult I know) and the hope is that he would be able to avoid the pitfalls of failure the second time around.
So much hinges on the GM and the QB. It’s hard to understate the damage done by two years of McAd’oh. It’s pretty clear that Big Balls Ben was actually an impediment to the offense and his Xs and Os coaching was horrible. A guy like McDaniels might have a lot of success with Eli and OBJ, Shep, Double E and bunch of good draft picks and UFA signings. I don’t think the Giants should be in full rebuild mode. Working with the benefit of a good GM, and if McDaniels had a good defensive coordinator and a good special teams unit then we’re right back in the hunt for a championship.
31 when he was Denver HC. He was hired 10 years ago and fired 8.5 years ago. He has gone back to New England and not only helped their offense constantly evolve but he also helped develop Jimmy Garrapolo.
Players argue with coaches and I for one do not hold it against McDaniels that he yelled back at Brady. Coaches yell at players all the time. I love Parcells and Simms shouting match highlights.
The mistake Denver made was giving McDaniels personnel control.
people can point to something specific that separates McDaniels from the past failures of other assistants, it is going to be something that is always in the shadows.
The combined record of the six coaches from the Bill Belichick coaching tree – Romeo Crennel, Al Groh, Josh McDaniels, Eric Mangini, Nick Saban and Jim Schwartz is 125-194. Not one of them has lasted more than four seasons with a team, and only two of them – Mangini and Schwartz – have made the playoffs
Now, Bill O'Brien actually seems like a decent coach, but his record still hasn't been impressive.
That isn't to say all of Bill's assistants suck, but McDaniels already did with Denver, then he massively failed in St. Louis. There's a history already established. Combine it with the other guys, and it isn't promising.
I don't think anyone caqn say whether or not he's learned from his time in Denver. He's still not liked very well, and while that isn't a precursor to failure, when it is because people don't respect him - that's a problem.
would be my choice if he's let go. You get some of the same game plan type O scheme McD would bring with hopefully a bit less of the douchiness quotient. O'b with a strong DC like Pagano running a 34 I'd sign for.
Mc Daniels is a good O coach and is miles above Mac in fitting the personnel to what he'd run but as FMIC mentioned it's a concern that he continues to rub many the wrong way in an organization. It's a process and you have to be patient to first see after the season who's available and what their vision is for the team. I'd rather wait and get it right than rush and get it wrong. we should be talking to DiFilippo as well
has had really bad QB play in Houston until this year with Watson and still made and won a playoff game. Yes he had a very good D but if you can bring Darnold here and let him sit for a year it would be a good pairing
Actually lots of good coaches has crap coaching trees. Norv Turner. Nobody.
Funny you mention Norv Turner because he’s from the Jimmy Johnson tree and JJ might actually b similar to Belichick in brilliance, success and a relatively paltry offspring of coaches.
would be my choice if he's let go. You get some of the same game plan type O scheme McD would bring with hopefully a bit less of the douchiness quotient. O'b with a strong DC like Pagano running a 34 I'd sign for.
Mc Daniels is a good O coach and is miles above Mac in fitting the personnel to what he'd run but as FMIC mentioned it's a concern that he continues to rub many the wrong way in an organization. It's a process and you have to be patient to first see after the season who's available and what their vision is for the team. I'd rather wait and get it right than rush and get it wrong. we should be talking to DiFilippo as well
I've said it previously, but if you don't realize the influence that Ernie Adams has in things like "fitting the personnel to what he'd run" and that McDaniels (just like all other Patriots' assistants who go on to HC roles) would be asked to grow his role without his support structure, you're really missing what the driving force is up in New England. Belichick is a genius, obviously, and Adams is his right hand man. Adams does so much work with and on behalf of the assistants that can't be replicated very easily.
Separated from New England, McDaniels is no different than McAdoo.
I've advocated for Kris Richard previously, and still am high on him as well, but I think that it's unlikely that the Giants follow up McAdoo with another first-time HC with limited coordinator experience.
you have to remember that he was the youngest head coach in the NFL at 33 years old.
People grow and learn. He's learning from the best.
He also had terrible rosters with both teams. Kyle Orton was his Broncos QB. Bradford was in his 2nd year and played only 9 games. AJ Feeley & Kellen Clemens were his QBs for half the season. The combined to have 1 good WR who was a headcase (Marshall). His other WRs were Danario Alexander, Brandon Gibson, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney & Eddie Royal. Billy Bajema was the Rams starting TE. Their OL was a fucking joke.
The Broncos talent was just as bad. Their best defensive player was Elvis Dumveril who was good, but their next best defensive player was a 31 & 32 year old Champ Bailey. Don't think any coach would have succeeded with those rosters.
There is a reason he's been considered the top HC candidate for the last 2 years and a ton of NFL writers/insiders speak very highly of him. He's older now. More mature and has admitted to mistakes he made. Plus he's a multiple time SB Champ whose been around the best coach in NFL history. I'd definitely take my chance on him.
based on his total experience. I don't believe you can dismiss his initial failure as a HC. Coaches get hired to get fired---almost NONE survive Bad QB's. Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news.
I don't know the insider tales of his relationships, etc...but I'm guessing that most such statements here are 10th hand reports.
They'll interview and get a sense of all of that...the credentials, otherwise, are brilliant. Most impressive has been the ability of the Patriots to Play to The Roster's Talent---tailoring the attack to ability. That's a gigantic mindset advantage..... bewildering that it's Unique!!!!
People think they’re getting BB when in reality they aren’t. Look at the track record of his coaching tree. It’s not good. They’re best suited for coordinators.
I’m not totally against it but I have others I’d prefer.
Two years ago during our “search” for a new HC wasn’t McDaniels kept off the list for being an arrogant putz, to put it nicely? Could have sworn the nfl thought he wasn’t worthy of making the list.
I was warming up to the idea of McDaniels but I don't like it. Â
He's just not the kind of personality the Giants would hire as a HC. And yeah, McAdoo had zero personality. But I firmly believe that wasn't the case before. He changed for some reason. The hair and everything - I don't know.
significant evidence they are different from all the rest. To me, none of them show that. O'Brien is mediocre and has had plenty of time. McDaniels has shown nothing to say he is any different than he was when he failed before and more damning is that he has never shown that an iota of the Foxboro success is his doing since they were successful before him, when he was gone, and after he came back - none of that points to him having anything to do with it. Unless they are bringing Adams and all the many outside the lines methods that the patriots use to be "successful" then nobody from that organization is worth squat.
Plenty of candidates that are not tied to Foxboro - pick the best among them.
Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
I've advocated for Kris Richard previously, and still am high on him as well, but I think that it's unlikely that the Giants follow up McAdoo with another first-time HC with limited coordinator experience.
Shurmur combined with Gettleman/Abrams is the safest choice, IMO.
McDaniel would be rolling the dice a bit.........but the return on investment could be very good. Sometimes the second time around works for a coach.
Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
You mean the same support and training staff that the actual players don't even listen to anymore? The same guys who are ignored by the players for the advice of Tom Brady's personal trainer, who Belicheck kicked out of the compound?
RE: I've been talking up McDaniels since like 2012-13.... Â
I find it amusing that he's now considered a top candidate for our head coaching vacancy.
He may not suck but he was out of touch and caustic as a HC in Denver. Sure so was Bill B in Cleveland but that dude shut down one of the best offenses in NFL history with an aging 3-4 defense and hardly any offense to rely on. McDaniels is great with Brady and Belichick, I don't trust him to lead some huge turnaround in this pressure cooker if he couldn't cut it in Denver.
But it goes deeper. He isn't respected. And that's actually OK as an assistant. It isn't as a HC. He had one of his players attempt to bang his wife. He had the Broncos long-time trainer quit while he was there. He went through several Executive Assistants in Denver. I don't know about the Rams because I was never too close to their training staff, but in NE they can't stand the guy.
And again - being disliked isn't the end all. Not being respected is. That will run many coaches out of a building - we saw it with McAdoo.
Young.
Experience as HC and OC
Tough learning experience under his belt as HC
Learned from the best ever
Ability to evolve offense to personnel
There is a lot to like here.
The Denver thing doesn't scare me. I look at it as a positive. Think of yourselves 8-10 years ago. A lot changes. The fact he was able to bury the hatchet with Belichick and come back to NE shows a level of humility that reveals character. He's been humbled and I think it has allowed him to grow as a person.
This guy is going do to a tremendous job on a 2nd stint, I think. There really is no excuse for him not too at this point. That's the part I like.
Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
Well if this is true than that might change things... Giants absolutely first and foremost need a man that players will run through a brick wall for...
There is a lot to like about McDaniels on paper, but one of the things that is tough to measure is whether he is not respected... how do you quantify hearsay? There would have to be quite an investigation and speaking with Patriots staff and perhaps former Denver / Rams staff on their opinions... of course being wary of those who may have an ax to grind.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
But I'm just a fan, I don't know shit.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
Excellent point. What about this guy?
Their HC resumes are almost identical. Stop chasing the BB dragon.
!00% agree
So, when I put that tape together with the fact that he lost the team in Denver, I really don' want McDaniels. I think he is smart but not head coaching material. At least not yet.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
Add Tom Coughlin to that list!
I'm all in. If the coach Riddick brings in is Saban, all the better. If they can find another qualified GM who wants David Shaw, and Shaw wants to coach the Giants, then I would be all in on that, but all those scenarios seem like winners. If none of them happen, hopefully they come up with a combination that is equally appealing.
And Tom Brady flips on everyone. He's Tom Brady. He's insanely competitive and a perfectionist. He would flip like that on any OC or offensive coach if he felt it warranted. If Belichick was the play caller, I'm sure there would be sideline meltdowns with him. You gonna get rid of Tom Brady?
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who is available that has had nothing but success his whole career.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
Add Tom Coughlin to that list!
All of those guys showed some semblance of success in their first go-round. McDaniels was the equivalent of McAdoo. I get it, the Patriots' success is seductive. But McDaniels hasn't shown anything to suggest that he's anything but a product of the Belichick/Adams environment.
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In comment 13750522 blueblood said:
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who is available that has had nothing but success his whole career.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
Add Tom Coughlin to that list!
All of those guys showed some semblance of success in their first go-round. McDaniels was the equivalent of McAdoo. I get it, the Patriots' success is seductive. But McDaniels hasn't shown anything to suggest that he's anything but a product of the Belichick/Adams environment.
So did McDaniels. He went 8-8 with Kyle Orton at QB and a rookie starting at RB. That's pretty good.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
+1
So, when I put that tape together with the fact that he lost the team in Denver, I really don' want McDaniels. I think he is smart but not head coaching material. At least not yet.
Yeah, because Simms never yelled back at Parcells.
He can’t be in charge of personelle though. He was a terrible GM. Picking up Teboe, I really think was him trying to be Little Bill and liking his versatility.
Plus he is so directly connected to the cheating that I think it would be an embarrassment to bring him in. Two times associated with spygate. Oversaw the only person banned from the NFL for the second spygate scandal. I'm not convinced at all that his "success" isn't due to the many outside the rules tactics employed in Foxboro. The Giants should stay away!
Same.
Bekichick doesn't have a system. He has a philosophy. Offensively, he believes games are won between the hashes. That is why he loads up on TEs, slot WRs, and pass catching RBs. When they got Moss they changed up their system.
Defensively, they always bounce around between a 3-4 and a 4-3 over the years. Their philosophy is to take away your top 2 options and make you beat them with lesser talent.
+.5 I'm way less sure he's useless.
I m one of those fans that really doesn t know options other than retreads,so my opinion on a new coach is pretty irrelevant.
I think BB is the constant in that success story, and the variables piggyback on him.
Plus specifically with Mcdaniels, it's not the level of success in Denver that bothers me, but the fashion in which he conducted himself and managed the people around him. His fumbling of Jay Cutler was Mcadooesk. Drafting Tebow and the RB in the 1st...
Or maybe I'm allergic to coaches with surnames starting with Mc....give me a couple of years, it will go away ;-)
Plus he was a COLOSSAL jackass in Denver.
The dude won a playoff game with Tebow. Hardly drowning.
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He has the best QB to ever play in the NFL and the best Head Coach to ever coach. He went out on his own once and drowned like a rat, no thanks. That system was there WAY before him, it has nothing to do with him.
The dude won a playoff game with Tebow. Hardly drowning.
No he didn't. John Fox, a guy no one wants did that.
With deen pees you could keep spags but bring in deens dbacks guys. Or at least learn from what they do.
Or a pro OL guy like Mike Munchack .
or someone from The Falcons.
McDaniels directed the Matt Cassel-led Patriots' offense to a 11-5 record in 2008 and a Brady-less Pats to a 3-1 record last year. Obviously Brady is a huge part of it, but there is a reason BB sticks with McDaniels.
It would be extremely refreshing if McDaniels could bring a bit of what the Patroits do here. I am so tired of stale predictable offense. The Patriots system with works. Adaptable, flexible, unpredictable, build your system around the talent you have, not the other way around. They've reinvented themselves over and over.
I am warming up to zone blocking ala Steelers and Falcons with Mike Munchack as head coach and Chris Morgan as OC . both would be taking steps up in title although Munchack has been a hc in the past.
Problem would be: we need someone to update and invigorate spags system..a consultant or new positional coaches.
and with Munchack and Morgan we would probably need to add someone to make sure a smart book of wr routes integrates with all that new line play.
But from the get go your recruiting would improve
In the lines .
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In comment 13750523 Joey in VA said:
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He has the best QB to ever play in the NFL and the best Head Coach to ever coach. He went out on his own once and drowned like a rat, no thanks. That system was there WAY before him, it has nothing to do with him.
The dude won a playoff game with Tebow. Hardly drowning.
No he didn't. John Fox, a guy no one wants did that.
Boom
Go read his quotes since then. He’s owned up to his mistakes and said he needs to make sure he listens more (I took that to mean that he should trust the people around him more). This was also 8 years ago - should he be looked down upon forever because he liked Tebow?
He also was the OC for the Rams under Spags and produced an output that was one of the franchises worst ever.
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As OL coach Chris Morgan teams have run the fuck out of it.
I find it amusing that he's now considered a top candidate for our head coaching vacancy.
Again, he's viewed in Denver the way we view McAdoo. He wasn't just a coach that didn't work out, he was a fiasco who was ridden out of town on a rail.
People grow and learn. He's learning from the best.
Again, he's viewed in Denver the way we view McAdoo. He wasn't just a coach that didn't work out, he was a fiasco who was ridden out of town on a rail.
This is why you have an interview. You ask the questions. Why did you fail in Denver. What could you have done differently or better?
Believe it or not people learn from mistakes and even failure. Im sure if most people look at their lives honestly. They have as well.
This why you have the interviews. To find these things out. You dont dismiss things out of hand.
So, when I put that tape together with the fact that he lost the team in Denver, I really don' want McDaniels. I think he is smart but not head coaching material. At least not yet.
I have had this same thought. And most of the BB Assistants have not worked out well for other teams. But what do I know
I find it amusing that he's now considered a top candidate for our head coaching vacancy.
I find it dismaying rather than amusing since...he still sucks. Nothing has changed.
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who is available that has had nothing but success his whole career.
Belicheck did better his second go round. So did Pete Carroll. So did Dick Vermeil. So did Tony Dungy. So did Gary Kubiak.
People often do actually learn from their mistakes and get better.
Excellent point. What about this guy?
Their HC resumes are almost identical. Stop chasing the BB dragon.
Chasing the BB Dragon? yeah whatever..
Also, he was a prick to the team's support staff. The training staff couldn't stand him, and the Patriots training staff doesn't like him either.
Also, he was a prick to the team's support staff. The training staff couldn't stand him, and the Patriots training staff doesn't like him either.
And that's a good enough reason to go with somebody else.
On the other hand, I don’t want someone who hasn’t been a head coach before. And, I don’t want someone who’s been a head coach for a long time, i.e. Jeff Fischer. So in that sense McDaniels is an ideal candidate in a small pool.
I get it, McDaniels was a flop in Denver but at least he’s been in the NFL HC position and that experience is very valuable. He’s bound to be better than before (not difficult I know) and the hope is that he would be able to avoid the pitfalls of failure the second time around.
So much hinges on the GM and the QB. It’s hard to understate the damage done by two years of McAd’oh. It’s pretty clear that Big Balls Ben was actually an impediment to the offense and his Xs and Os coaching was horrible. A guy like McDaniels might have a lot of success with Eli and OBJ, Shep, Double E and bunch of good draft picks and UFA signings. I don’t think the Giants should be in full rebuild mode. Working with the benefit of a good GM, and if McDaniels had a good defensive coordinator and a good special teams unit then we’re right back in the hunt for a championship.
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but not after seeing that tape where Brady is screaming at him. That indicates lack of respect. Can you imagine someone doing that to Parcells
Are you serious? Parcells and Simms yelled at each other a lot. Please..
Players argue with coaches and I for one do not hold it against McDaniels that he yelled back at Brady. Coaches yell at players all the time. I love Parcells and Simms shouting match highlights.
The mistake Denver made was giving McDaniels personnel control.
The combined record of the six coaches from the Bill Belichick coaching tree – Romeo Crennel, Al Groh, Josh McDaniels, Eric Mangini, Nick Saban and Jim Schwartz is 125-194. Not one of them has lasted more than four seasons with a team, and only two of them – Mangini and Schwartz – have made the playoffs
Now, Bill O'Brien actually seems like a decent coach, but his record still hasn't been impressive.
That isn't to say all of Bill's assistants suck, but McDaniels already did with Denver, then he massively failed in St. Louis. There's a history already established. Combine it with the other guys, and it isn't promising.
I don't think anyone caqn say whether or not he's learned from his time in Denver. He's still not liked very well, and while that isn't a precursor to failure, when it is because people don't respect him - that's a problem.
Mc Daniels is a good O coach and is miles above Mac in fitting the personnel to what he'd run but as FMIC mentioned it's a concern that he continues to rub many the wrong way in an organization. It's a process and you have to be patient to first see after the season who's available and what their vision is for the team. I'd rather wait and get it right than rush and get it wrong. we should be talking to DiFilippo as well
Funny you mention Norv Turner because he’s from the Jimmy Johnson tree and JJ might actually b similar to Belichick in brilliance, success and a relatively paltry offspring of coaches.
Found a kind of cool coaching tree graphic at WSJ which is linked below.
NFL coaching trees - ( New Window )
I find it amusing that he's now considered a top candidate for our head coaching vacancy.
Don't worry, Britt. He still sucks.
Mc Daniels is a good O coach and is miles above Mac in fitting the personnel to what he'd run but as FMIC mentioned it's a concern that he continues to rub many the wrong way in an organization. It's a process and you have to be patient to first see after the season who's available and what their vision is for the team. I'd rather wait and get it right than rush and get it wrong. we should be talking to DiFilippo as well
I've said it previously, but if you don't realize the influence that Ernie Adams has in things like "fitting the personnel to what he'd run" and that McDaniels (just like all other Patriots' assistants who go on to HC roles) would be asked to grow his role without his support structure, you're really missing what the driving force is up in New England. Belichick is a genius, obviously, and Adams is his right hand man. Adams does so much work with and on behalf of the assistants that can't be replicated very easily.
Separated from New England, McDaniels is no different than McAdoo.
I've advocated for Kris Richard previously, and still am high on him as well, but I think that it's unlikely that the Giants follow up McAdoo with another first-time HC with limited coordinator experience.
People grow and learn. He's learning from the best.
He also had terrible rosters with both teams. Kyle Orton was his Broncos QB. Bradford was in his 2nd year and played only 9 games. AJ Feeley & Kellen Clemens were his QBs for half the season. The combined to have 1 good WR who was a headcase (Marshall). His other WRs were Danario Alexander, Brandon Gibson, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney & Eddie Royal. Billy Bajema was the Rams starting TE. Their OL was a fucking joke.
The Broncos talent was just as bad. Their best defensive player was Elvis Dumveril who was good, but their next best defensive player was a 31 & 32 year old Champ Bailey. Don't think any coach would have succeeded with those rosters.
There is a reason he's been considered the top HC candidate for the last 2 years and a ton of NFL writers/insiders speak very highly of him. He's older now. More mature and has admitted to mistakes he made. Plus he's a multiple time SB Champ whose been around the best coach in NFL history. I'd definitely take my chance on him.
As for b.belichick. It's sort of like ancient Rome. Easy to talk about. Impossible to replicate.
Thinking the shanny SR. tree maybe.
I don't know the insider tales of his relationships, etc...but I'm guessing that most such statements here are 10th hand reports.
They'll interview and get a sense of all of that...the credentials, otherwise, are brilliant. Most impressive has been the ability of the Patriots to Play to The Roster's Talent---tailoring the attack to ability. That's a gigantic mindset advantage..... bewildering that it's Unique!!!!
I’m not totally against it but I have others I’d prefer.
McDaniels is not a Giants type of coach.
I'd love a guy like O'Brien.
Plenty of candidates that are not tied to Foxboro - pick the best among them.
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
I've advocated for Kris Richard previously, and still am high on him as well, but I think that it's unlikely that the Giants follow up McAdoo with another first-time HC with limited coordinator experience.
Shurmur combined with Gettleman/Abrams is the safest choice, IMO.
McDaniel would be rolling the dice a bit.........but the return on investment could be very good. Sometimes the second time around works for a coach.
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Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
So what actually is the problem with McDaniel?
Just a douche?
Anyway, BB must obviously like something about him.
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Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
You mean the same support and training staff that the actual players don't even listen to anymore? The same guys who are ignored by the players for the advice of Tom Brady's personal trainer, who Belicheck kicked out of the compound?
I find it amusing that he's now considered a top candidate for our head coaching vacancy.
Just a douche?
But it goes deeper. He isn't respected. And that's actually OK as an assistant. It isn't as a HC. He had one of his players attempt to bang his wife. He had the Broncos long-time trainer quit while he was there. He went through several Executive Assistants in Denver. I don't know about the Rams because I was never too close to their training staff, but in NE they can't stand the guy.
And again - being disliked isn't the end all. Not being respected is. That will run many coaches out of a building - we saw it with McAdoo.
Experience as HC and OC
Tough learning experience under his belt as HC
Learned from the best ever
Ability to evolve offense to personnel
There is a lot to like here.
The Denver thing doesn't scare me. I look at it as a positive. Think of yourselves 8-10 years ago. A lot changes. The fact he was able to bury the hatchet with Belichick and come back to NE shows a level of humility that reveals character. He's been humbled and I think it has allowed him to grow as a person.
This guy is going do to a tremendous job on a 2nd stint, I think. There really is no excuse for him not too at this point. That's the part I like.
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Coaches of Losing Teams are "Disliked" and "Dis-respected"...that's NOT news
McDaniels isn't well liked or respected even on the Pats, especially by the support staff.
Belicheck is more of a introvert, who is fairly friendly in person (provided he doesn't have a microphone near him). McDaniels is roundly disliked by the training staff and the admin staff. Not for being tough - they don't respect him.
Well if this is true than that might change things... Giants absolutely first and foremost need a man that players will run through a brick wall for...
There is a lot to like about McDaniels on paper, but one of the things that is tough to measure is whether he is not respected... how do you quantify hearsay? There would have to be quite an investigation and speaking with Patriots staff and perhaps former Denver / Rams staff on their opinions... of course being wary of those who may have an ax to grind.