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Get out your scissors - if your the GM who are you cutting?

DavidinBMNY : 12/25/2017 11:20 am
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap/2018

As per above we are in the middle of the pack re: Cap and have almost no dead money. This looks like an opportune time to cut a slew of players.

Here's my list of who I'd cut, being mindful it's a business, and these cuts are just about economics at this point. I'll stack rack them in order of who I would cut 1st.

1) Marshall -Net ~$4mm [$1mm Dead / $5mm Space]
2) DRC -Net ~6.5mm [$2mm Dead / $6.5 mm Space]
3) Hart -Net ~0.7mm [$17k Dead / $.75 mm Space]
4) Harris -Net ~0.8mm [$1.6 mm Dead / $2.4 mm Space]
5) Armstrong-Net ~1.25mm [$0 Dead / $1.25 mm Space]
6) Deoisse -Net ~1mm [$0 Dead / $1mm Space]

I understand $4.5mm in dead money raising the total to $5mm sucks but it frees up ~$13.25mm in cap.

Then the big decision is Manning. Do we go another year with Eli? He's counting against the cap anyway. If I were to release him, it's less about cap relief and more about time to move on. If anyone would trade something for him I'd do it, but the hit is still the hit. Economically speaking, it seems freeing up another $10mm and eating that cap hit is maybe just 1 year to early. There is no doubt Eli won't renegotiate his deal. And there is no doubt he will be cut or traded in '19 if not now.

I choose to take the hit now. If i can get a pick great. Otherwise, i end this chapter maybe a tad early, but I'd rather do that then wait.

So all in $~17.5mm in dead money. freeing up $23mm in Cap space and $50mm in cap space total.

There are other players like Apple I would want to cut but the economics are really bad in that case.


In regards to Eli  
mattyblue : 12/25/2017 11:28 am : link
I kinda think if a team is willing to make a run with him as the QB he is gonna go for it either ask to be released or traded. I don’t know if any team thinks he could be the missing link. Otherwise, he is most likely on a very short leash with two young QBs on the roster. He isn’t gonna like the idea of the crowds and coaches preparing for a new QB. Plus, again most likely, are going to have to keep 3 QBs again with the brass wanting to decide on which one to keep and which would to try and move. Maybe this makes no sense but it’s just the feeling I get. I also started celebrating early today so I apologize for any typos or just general incoherence.
It might be easier to list guys  
Gman11 : 12/25/2017 11:31 am : link
not to cut. There's a lot of dead wood and I don't know about keeping a guy because of his cap hit.
Easier to answer  
old man : 12/25/2017 11:34 am : link
Who NOT to cut. But from that list:
Not DeOssie unless its skills warrant it. 1m for a LS is about right or slightly over what they cost.
DRC: Talk to him and maybe reduce his role and $$$ but the Apple situation ....
I disagree about DRC  
mrvax : 12/25/2017 11:37 am : link
Why cut him now? He's playing well, he's only $6.5M. Starting CBs are expensive. Huge question mark with Apple really reinforces the need to keep DRC.
RE: I disagree about DRC  
FStubbs : 12/25/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13754135 mrvax said:
Quote:
Why cut him now? He's playing well, he's only $6.5M. Starting CBs are expensive. Huge question mark with Apple really reinforces the need to keep DRC.


This team is rebuilding, but yeah, DRC is worth letting him play next year at this point. The other corners are huge question marks.
This is looking like a multi-year re-build.  
Arkbach : 12/25/2017 11:58 am : link
I hope I don't read anything about the 2018 Giants is scary. Remember those early this year. This situation is going to be a 2-3 year fix. San Francisco style maybe where no one expected anything and now they're one of the hottest teams.
Invest in a QB!! Nothing else matters.
I'd  
AcidTest : 12/25/2017 12:12 pm : link
also cut Jerry and Lewis, and maybe one of JPP or Vernon, despite the massive cap hit. I wouldn't cut Eli. We'll need him for at least one more year, as we transition to a new QB in 2019.

Other players I wouldn't resign or would cut:

Pugh.
Richburg.
Smith.
Vereen.
Raymond.
Greco.
Halapio.
Sheppard.
Ayers.
Morris.
Berhe.

I might resign some of these players:

Darkwa.
Jones.
Wynn.
Bromley.
Thomas.

I'd bring in competition for Rosas and Wing.

I'd explore some type of renegotiation with DRC. Apple's situation increases the chance that he returns.
No one!  
JohnB : 12/25/2017 12:27 pm : link
They are going to have a new coach and a new system. Some of these players might play damn well in the new system. Put a new GM and coach in place and then decide. Deciding now is stupid.
JohnB wins.  
Red Dog : 12/25/2017 12:59 pm : link
.
RE: JohnB wins.  
Diver_Down : 12/25/2017 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13754193 Red Dog said:
Quote:
.


No he doesn't. He fails miserably by not reading the premise of the thread. The thread title postulates who to cut if YOU are the GM. It is just a fun excercise, but instead we have Johnny commenting to leave it up to the real GM/Coach. Huge fucking eye roll.
Way too soon to start cutting...  
trueblueinpw : 12/25/2017 1:26 pm : link
But, I’d get rid of the punter and the kicker just to warm things up. Fucking kickers.

DRC has been a consistent player on the D for years. Wouldn’t be a hurry to chase him even though he’s long in the tooth. Don’t think he’s particularly expensive.
I love the guys who say  
Peppers : 12/25/2017 1:53 pm : link
'No One!' and 'way too soon'

Like no shit.. but thats not the point of the thread. Step away from trying to be the forum know-it-all for one moment for fucksake. You don't want to play a long then don't comment.. But Don't be a noodle and play along.


DRC is still the fastest CB on the team  
Bluesbreaker : 12/25/2017 1:57 pm : link
so many holes to plug I would retain hm maybe little less money . I think you keep Eli for one more season .
Unless you can get something for him with his consent and
I doubt he would do that I don't see a place where he
would start with an ascending team .
Cuts
Oliver Vernon production fell way off this season and has made some bad late hits in key situations .
Weston Richburg not stout at the POA with a concussion
time to move on .
Dwayne Harris injury prone another year older
Mark Herzlich great guy soon to be 31
Devon Kennard tweener whats his role ?
Bobby Hart not a tackle not a back up no upside
Roger Lewis, Jr. erratic fair special teamer drops
Orleans Darkwa scares no one very average healthissues
Shane Vereen basically a bust IMO had a decent 1st year
Justin Pugh injury prone cost too much ?
Not if that saves much
Cut list  
Peppers : 12/25/2017 2:02 pm : link
I'm not cutting DRC. I try to rework his contract if anything. He's still playing well.

I'd try to trade Eli Apple. There has to be a little value still left.

Eli Manning is a tough call. I wait to see who declares before I make a move on Eli. If both Rosen and Darnold declare and we're picking #2 I cut him. Its only fair to Eli. He doesn't deserve having to look over his shoulder for another season.. Because you know the same fans rooting for him now will be chanting the new toys name the moment Eli starts struggling. If only one of them declare or we're sitting at #3 I probably stick with Eli another year.
honestly its hard to evaluate players this year  
GiantsFan84 : 12/25/2017 2:27 pm : link
as the coaching has been sooooooo bad.

just one example. is DRC still good? if so why has he not been shadowing the other teams #1 WR with Jenkins out? i happen to think he's still good, but if he is simply a part time slot defender maybe he's not worth his salary
IMO  
Pete in MD : 12/25/2017 2:34 pm : link
Marshall is the only definite cut (if he doesn’t retire.) Harris is probably too. He’s become very injury prone to injury and makes a lot for what he offers.
RE: Easier to answer  
smshmth8690 : 12/25/2017 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13754132 old man said:
Quote:
Who NOT to cut. But from that list:
Not DeOssie unless its skills warrant it. 1m for a LS is about right or slightly over what they cost.
DRC: Talk to him and maybe reduce his role and $$$ but the Apple situation ....


+1 on DeOssie
Yeah  
lono801 : 12/25/2017 2:46 pm : link
DeOssis on that list makes zero sense
You guys do understand that there is really no such thing as less $$  
Matt M. : 12/25/2017 3:12 pm : link
Right? To renegotiate a deal for a smaller cap hit, you are really amortizing money. So, you take some of the salary and convert it into bonus/guaranteed and extend the deal to spread out the hit. So, DRC at a smaller hit means really DRC for more years.
David, What makes you say  
Gregorio : 12/25/2017 3:43 pm : link
‘there is no doubt Eli won’t renegotiate his deal’? Has he or his agent discussed it openly?

The Giants have been generous to Eli for his entire 14 year career, and he made a ton of money. His family is set. At this point in his career, his motivation to play is likely more for the competitive opportunity than for the money. Though, I won’t completely rule out money as his motive.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, because pro sports is such a business, but one can hope.

RE: David, What makes you say  
Matt M. : 12/25/2017 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13754331 Gregorio said:
Quote:
‘there is no doubt Eli won’t renegotiate his deal’? Has he or his agent discussed it openly?

The Giants have been generous to Eli for his entire 14 year career, and he made a ton of money. His family is set. At this point in his career, his motivation to play is likely more for the competitive opportunity than for the money. Though, I won’t completely rule out money as his motive.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, because pro sports is such a business, but one can hope.
At this point, there is no real benefit to the Giants to renegotiate with Eli. He has 2 years left. I do t think they really want to extend that for a small cap savings this year.
Either he plays it out or they cut him before 2019.
Agree with the posters who say slow down on showing DRC and  
cosmicj : 12/25/2017 5:16 pm : link
Deossie the door. I’m also probably one if the few posters who believe we should try working something out with Pugh.
Harris and Armstrong  
WillVAB : 12/25/2017 5:25 pm : link
Definite cuts. Marshall I’d wait and see, but if they need his money then cut.

Vernon and JPP I’d keep through next year and reevaluate after the season. Hopefully the new GM will get some talent in the pipeline.

Eli depends if you draft a QB. If so, cut him and move on.

Dwayne Harris  
Reb8thVA : 12/25/2017 5:29 pm : link
John Jerry, and Marshall. The Eli Apple situation makes it a little more complicated to cut DRC.
DeOssie  
djstat : 12/25/2017 10:37 pm : link
Is not getting Cut
I think these guys won't be here next year  
Vanzetti : 12/25/2017 11:36 pm : link
Pugh
Richburg
Marshall
Harris
Fluker
Casillas
Robinson
Kennard
Behre
Bromley
DRC
Darkwa

That's 12 guys to replace. That's a lot. Figure maybe Powe takes a WR spot and Bisnowaty an OL spot. That is still ten guys to replace with only 6 draft picks. Really 5 if they go QB.

So this will be a very different team next year.







Forgot Vereen and Herzlich  
Vanzetti : 12/25/2017 11:39 pm : link
The good thing is there will be opportunities. Will make it easier to sign UDFA and give others a chance to compete for spots.

Also, if they do go with Gettleman, he seems to have a good track record signing midpriced free agents.
Cuts  
BocaGiants91 : 12/26/2017 9:18 am : link
Can’t cut JPP this year unless your willing to completely write off the next season too, if your gunna cut JPP than might as well cut Eli too while your at it and take all the dead money next year, cause those two will leave a ton of dead cap space, Harris and Marshall are certainly gone as soon as they can pass a physical. There’s just not a lot to work with on offense, there’s more to work with on D , but they need a whole LB corps, I’m not sold on Goodson, he can’t stay on the field and when he is on the field I think he’s JAG. There’s going to be a lot of turnover, I really think none of the pending FAs should be resigned , Pugh thanks for the memories, Richburgh see ya. Vareen..just no. 2 year rebuild at least, the foundation cracked totally thanks to Reese and Ross inept drafting after rd 2 , and the inecusable pick of Flowers when Gurley was on the board.
there aren't many big ticket  
fkap : 12/26/2017 9:29 am : link
savings (and that's what ultimately matters, not dead money) to be had. big ticket meaning > 1 mil.

Marshall and Harris are no brainers.

After that, it's arguable on a couple more. you're mostly just exchanging them (and the lower ticket guys) for similar priced guys and hoping for better production. you can nickel and dime your way to a couple million savings. The main improvement will come with a better eye for talent and better coaching.

Eli: I would release him. We're not likely to be a winning team next year with or without him, and from a sentimental POV, I wouldn't want to put him through the same, or worse, shit that he went through this year. Every loss is going to bring out the boo birds clamoring for Webb or a newly drafted QB. I'd rather save significant dollars by bringing in a Geno to take the brunt of the emotional abuse. emotionally, I'd rather the legacy be like Simms where we bitch about management for ditching him rather than having us bitch about Eli for staying too long.
RE: there aren't many big ticket  
Matt M. : 12/26/2017 9:51 am : link
In comment 13754571 fkap said:
Quote:
savings (and that's what ultimately matters, not dead money) to be had. big ticket meaning > 1 mil.

Marshall and Harris are no brainers.

After that, it's arguable on a couple more. you're mostly just exchanging them (and the lower ticket guys) for similar priced guys and hoping for better production. you can nickel and dime your way to a couple million savings. The main improvement will come with a better eye for talent and better coaching.

Eli: I would release him. We're not likely to be a winning team next year with or without him, and from a sentimental POV, I wouldn't want to put him through the same, or worse, shit that he went through this year. Every loss is going to bring out the boo birds clamoring for Webb or a newly drafted QB. I'd rather save significant dollars by bringing in a Geno to take the brunt of the emotional abuse. emotionally, I'd rather the legacy be like Simms where we bitch about management for ditching him rather than having us bitch about Eli for staying too long.
I disagree about Eli and the prospects of winning. I think they have enough core talent on offense to turn it around, provided they get 2 very solid OL. A lot hinges on what they with the OL, regardless of who they take at #2. On D, a solid FS and a solid LB or 2 can make a big difference. In that scenario, I want Eli and not a rookie running the team. Also, there is still not a huge savings by releasing Eli this year because of the bonus money and 1 more year remaining after 2018. It makes more sense for them financially and long term to cut him after 2018. Wouldn't you rather have Eli mentoring your prized draft pick instead of a retread vet (Smith?) or thrusting the rookie into the starting lineup to be backed up by Webb?
As for cuts I would make  
Matt M. : 12/26/2017 9:56 am : link
I thought Marshall would be a bigger hit. Seeing the numbers, I would cut him. I wold have cut Harris last year, so I'm on board with cutting him as well. I don't know Vereen's cap numbers, but I'd like to cut him too.

I don't get the posts calling for DeOssie cut. He is still among the best at what he does and saves them next to nothing. Why not keep him?

DRC would depend on their vision for next year. If they make the right moves and try to compete (I think they can actually be a serious contender), a guy like DRC is very valuable, especially considering they are a little thin at CB.

Hart? It saves them almost nothing. However, there is no way I would have him even compete for a starting spot. That said, if they make the right moves on the OL, it would make more sense if he was a camp casualty.
Matt  
fkap : 12/26/2017 10:05 am : link
the winning part (with Eli) is debatable. However, releasing him before his roster bonus is due nets 9.8 mil cap savings. That's easily enough to get a one year vet and have money left over.

In a perfect world, I'd rather keep Eli as mentor (that's assuming something we don't know - that Eli is a quality mentor - he very well may be, but that's an assumption), but I'm not as optimistic as you about a successful team season next year, which puts Eli squarely in the middle of a QB controversy shit show.
vereen is a FA  
fkap : 12/26/2017 10:11 am : link
maybe bring him back at minimum or close to it. He still brings value if a youngster can't step up, but he's not the future.
RE: Matt  
Matt M. : 12/26/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13754606 fkap said:
Quote:
the winning part (with Eli) is debatable. However, releasing him before his roster bonus is due nets 9.8 mil cap savings. That's easily enough to get a one year vet and have money left over.

In a perfect world, I'd rather keep Eli as mentor (that's assuming something we don't know - that Eli is a quality mentor - he very well may be, but that's an assumption), but I'm not as optimistic as you about a successful team season next year, which puts Eli squarely in the middle of a QB controversy shit show.
I guess it comes down to whether or not you believe they can contend. I think the right moves make them a contender next year, while still setting them up for the next few years as well.

There are indications he is a good mentor. He is among the smartest QBs in the league and one of the most diligent in the film room and has been very willing to share his knowledge with Webb, for example.
i hope the new  
japanhead : 12/26/2017 11:29 am : link
regime gets eli apple out of the fucking building and in a hurry. cut him and chalk it up to a loss, don't even fuck around. also marshall, harris, and 5 out of the starting 5 OL (unrealistic but these guys can't be counted on save for maybe pugh, who is a lock to miss 4-8 games a season).
Personally  
Daniel in MI : 12/26/2017 12:15 pm : link
I don't love the numbers side of things that much. It's important but boring. I can do that at work. So I'll stick to the pretend coach/GM situation and talk about who I cut not because of cap savings, but because I don't want them on the team anymore.

First, I cut guys that you just can win with due to performance: Hart, Jerry, and probably Rosas. Sadly, this may also mean Eli. Not his fault, but he's not built for this team at this stage, and it's time to move on. Tear off the bandaid, turn the page and free up his high salary sooner rather than later. Dead money be damned.

Next I get rid of guys that just can't stay on the field. Sorry, but if you can't be relied on, you gotta go. You're coach killers. Get healthy and good luck. So, Richberg and Goodson are two OK players that come to mind immediately. I'd also cut Apple. His hip/brain injury coupled with his inability to play the ball in the air make him just unreliable. Don't need it here for the future. Cut bait.

Finally, I publicly execute Coach Quinn at Mid Field. Just a long overdue sacrifice to the football gods to turn around our ST woes.
In addition to Coach quinn  
Alwaysblue22 : 12/26/2017 2:20 pm : link
Rojas, and Brad Wing Please.
right ow I look at Eli as nothing  
Jersey55 : 12/27/2017 10:20 am : link
more than a financial anchor on this team, he's holding us back now from doing what has to be done because him being here is a financial disaster and I'm sure he knows that and that makes him selfish......
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