thats messed up to say and should have been kept in house. Would have expected Spags to have handled this after last weeks fiasco but I guess he failed to do so. Someone needs to get these guys under control and teach them what it means to be a team and have each others backs (publicly at least) no matter what. Sad that LC was considered one of the leaders of this team and this is how he handles business. We need a head coach who is a leader of men. This is pathetic.
Incredible how long and brutal this season has been.
I have no memory whatsoever of our first two games of the year - I know we lost 19-3 in the opener in Dallas but I really don't remember one single play. The game in Philly sticks out because it was such a wild fourth quarter, and the San Diego game because of the injuries - otherwise the season has been a long, slow, forgettable death march.
During the game on Sunday they showed the clip of Odell being carted off the field with his injury - I feel like I haven't seen him play football in two years.
like this never helps. There is a real problem on this team. The D was supposed to be the strength and it sucked. Guys got suspended and players on D literally quit. Obviously things are very wrong and this franchise is near rock bottom.
Rolled over at home against Detroit, and then lost two more on the road.
So they were 0-4, and basically out of the playoffs, before
homegame #2 when the fans have even has a second look at the team.
That is how you ruin a season.
IIRC. That fifth game, homegame #2, was against the also 0-4 Chargers, which they lost.
Going public with this is a misstep from a young leader. He's exhibited a lot of pride, passion and willingness to step up in a lost season. He has the goods and he'll learn from this.
like Eli Apple and Aaron Ross and any others who shoes so much potential end up being bums. It seems like the guys great for the first year or two and look like they will be a force to reckon with for years to come. Then they fade out either with their mouth or performance.
Same with our wide receivers...Its almost comical. The talent Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks should have had them here for 10yrs dominating. Injuries and fade out.
I think the issue is kink of a glaring now though. Our FO focused to much on talent than personality and traits.
by the new GM. Would they consider trading him? Cant have that in the locker room. Even if Collins shouldnt have said anything, its going to have to get fixed somehow. Bad blood between players is now an order of business, not only for the new GM, but HC possibly. Is it possible he hasnt played because the Giants might be looking into a trade and want to see what they have in Cockrell, etc?
and undoubtedly, the players already know. Probably should keep it out of the media as much as you can. But what difference does it make at this point? The coaching staff and FO isn't addressing it.
I heard Apple was sitting by himself on the sideline this week talking to no one and basically ostracizing himself from the team. If that's true, imagine what's going on in the locker room, in meetings and practices. Hell, on the plane.
Not sure what Collins' statement accomplishes other than to possibly let other players know that no one is immune from criticism even with one game to go. Only Collins really knows the intent.
that the Giants should have suspended him back during his tweet storm during a game. Doing so would have voided the guarantees in his contract and allowed the team to seek repayment of the signing bonus. I said then that he was a cancer and you can not allow such players to infect the rest of the locker room.
and was staying with him even when people here were calling him a bust during his rookie year. However, I have always said that locker room stuff needs to stay in the locker room. I said it as far back as when Tiki was talking about things that were said in the locker room... and Tiki had already left the team.
All that said, for Collins to call Apple a "cancer" means Eli is taking the team down from within. Can't have that on this team. Especially not when it is a guy who is a JAG.
You have a young player who avoided contact. Do you know how pissed off that is going to make every defender who is busting his butt--most of whom are making way less than Apple as first round pick?
Then, instead of acting like a man and going out to prove himself, Apple has instead acted like a child. Collins plays injured and he plays hard. He has earned the right to call this spoiled brat out.
This from nygfaninorlando takes on deeper significance now
1) Something is clearly not right with Eli Apple and his relationship with the rest of the team. If you didn't know any better you would think the entire team was allergic to him. He only played today on punt return (got called for a holding penalty) and didn't even sit with the other members of the secondary when they were on the sideline. He sat by himself on the bench most of the game, every once in awhile Nate Berhe would come over to him, but that was it. Seemed like everyone else purposely avoided him. Not sure how this is going to go next year for him, but clearly something needs to change. A top 10 pick can't even get in a game for a 2-12 team over street free agents signed over the past month.
I think the whole team is done with Apple and Collins was speaking for his teammates.
Honestly, it sounds like Eli Apple's issues run very deep and are beyond football. But people with issues make enemies. If you make enough enemies at your workplace, people turn on you. Observations from the stadium today - ( New Window )
Landon Collins never mentions Eli Apple by name, but in interview with @ESPNNY98_7FM today, when asked about potential changes in #Giants secondary by @espnbob, he says: That first pick ... hes a cancer. Link - ( New Window )
but there was a very good article written about the last 8 months for Eli Apple. Mom and stepdad split up, stepdad fired as manager, he was hospitalized during OTAs and only his mom was allowed in the room, mom having surgery...and the list goes one. Apparently his stepfather played a big role in his development and family members are saying the split has more of an impact then people know
I get that most of the time, not this time. Good for Collins telling the truth.
He s a leader. He tried it in house. He s fed up and he cares. Good for him.
Apple and his inability to take responsibility for himself, is going to cost him his career.
Normally I would prefer this kept in house but like you, not this time.
I think it's pretty obvious now that Apple was the anonymous link to that Josena whatever her name is article and tweets about the team back about 4-6 weeks ago.
The D seemed pretty pissed off whoever it was wasn't man enough to put his name to it, and I think we can pretty much tell they know it was Apple. Saying stuff like what LC said today and the team basically ignoring Apple on the sidelines is pretty telling IMO.
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
most others, I am usually of the opinion that comments like this not be made publicly. Doing so makes it even harder for the team to play well.
But Collins just broke his arm in a meaningless game. He and Harrison have never quit. Apple did. I originally thought that it was too early to give up on Apple. But it might be better for everyone to part ways. In any event, the final judgment belongs to his teammates. And it looks like they have already rendered their verdict.
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
Multiple teammates have commented that they have tried talking to and mentoring him but he doesn't listen.
But I don't think Collins is trying to fix this situation anymore, he's trying to end it and end it by creating a situation where Apple has to straighten up or get off the team. You can argue whether this is good leadership or not, but consider what we know.
Apple has been a locker room problem since mini camp
He's been identified as a player who just couldn't seem to care less during camp
His play on the field, even when he was trying has been underwhelming
We all saw the 49er game, and when he was called out by teammates during a film session, he almost walked out on the team.
He violated league rules by tweeting during a game.
He was disciplined for yelling at his coaches.
He is widely suspected of being the anonymous locker room source.
And recent reports indicate he is ostracized from his teammates even on game day.
Unless Eli Apple grows up extremely fast, he needs to go! I wouldn't even give him a jersey on game day this week.
Whatever Collins motives you have to believe he is extremely frustrated by this situation. When you are a self motivated person few things annoy you more than unmotivated, selfish, entitled people. Especially when you have to work with them. I believe Collins is speaking for the vast majority of his teammates on this issue, and is signaling to the incoming Coach and GM that the Giants can't win with Eli Apple. Not sure I would go public like this but looking at everything, I can see why Collins did.
Also, was anyone else less than amused to see Annie Apples segment on ESPN this Sunday. Her comments on when to get involved with your sons career while talking with other NFL moms was concerning.
The other problem here is the coaches have no power
homework on this kind a stuff? Holy crap Giants should have known before the pick that he's a problem. Trouble is his value is gone pretty much. A number one pick and they will be lucky to get anything for him.
But I don't think Collins is trying to fix this situation anymore, he's trying to end it and end it by creating a situation where Apple has to straighten up or get off the team. You can argue whether this is good leadership or not, but consider what we know.
Apple has been a locker room problem since mini camp
He's been identified as a player who just couldn't seem to care less during camp
His play on the field, even when he was trying has been underwhelming
We all saw the 49er game, and when he was called out by teammates during a film session, he almost walked out on the team.
He violated league rules by tweeting during a game.
He was disciplined for yelling at his coaches.
He is widely suspected of being the anonymous locker room source.
And recent reports indicate he is ostracized from his teammates even on game day.
Unless Eli Apple grows up extremely fast, he needs to go! I wouldn't even give him a jersey on game day this week.
Whatever Collins motives you have to believe he is extremely frustrated by this situation. When you are a self motivated person few things annoy you more than unmotivated, selfish, entitled people. Especially when you have to work with them. I believe Collins is speaking for the vast majority of his teammates on this issue, and is signaling to the incoming Coach and GM that the Giants can't win with Eli Apple. Not sure I would go public like this but looking at everything, I can see why Collins did.
Also, was anyone else less than amused to see Annie Apples segment on ESPN this Sunday. Her comments on when to get involved with your sons career while talking with other NFL moms was concerning.
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
This. Whats it say about a captain that speaks out of turn like that? What is this team doing to get this fixed? Nothing. I like both players, but this isnt helping either player. We need them all. Certainly the 10th pick in last years draft and our all-pro safety are needed players. Spags has been a disaster. If there was one thing he needed to fix, this was it.
screwed with Apple. No trade value, and a big cap hit if we cut him.
I don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. I blame him for taking Apple. The warning signs with Apple were evident. Several teams apparently took him off their board.
Like I said, if they suspended him due to conduct detrimental to the team, it would trigger the forfeiture clause in his contract that would void the guarantees of his future salary and allow the team to pursue repayment of the signing bonus.
homework on this kind a stuff? Holy crap Giants should have known before the pick that he's a problem. Trouble is his value is gone pretty much. A number one pick and they will be lucky to get anything for him.
I keep wondering if they were actually watching Apple's teammate (Marshon Lattimore - possible All-Pro rookie this season) and simply mistook the two guys.
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
From multiple accounts, teammates have tried to mentor Apple but he hasn't not been opening to listening. You can't blame this behavior on anyone else. He's not even motivated to play much less fight for his starting spot against Ross Cockerel! Who also has just flat outplayed him. It's up to Apple. Not Collins, not Snacks, not Slags.
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
From multiple accounts, teammates have tried to mentor Apple but he hasn't not been opening to listening. You can't blame this behavior on anyone else. He's not even motivated to play much less fight for his starting spot against Ross Cockerel! Who also has just flat outplayed him. It's up to Apple. Not Collins, not Snacks, not Slags.
Spags,not slags.
I think Collins is trying to force Apple's departure.
Spags is going to be shown the door in a week or so. What do you think he's going to do? There's no one stearing the ship right now. Damn thing is on auto pilot and going to crash and burn
Apple needs to grow up and Collins needs to shut up
Disagree. Sometimes it takes someone like Collins speaking out publicly to change things
There is truth in this. Sometimes leadership is messy, and when the individual with the problem is not accepting private mentoring, and has denied teammates have reached out to him, and continues to hurt the greater whole, you are well within your rights to take it public.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the new GM and head coach, who already need to turn around a win team, with QB questions, may not want to inherit this issue and might be willing to pay for Apple not being part of the team.
the few guys who played hard and didn't complain or get in trouble too much this year. But that is not the way to be a leader of this team or any team.
I really doubt they're cutting Apple so hopefully they not only get him some help this offseason but they'll also need someone to mend the fences between these two guys.
Antrel Rolle, CWeb, or another respected former DB
"There is only one corner who needs to grow up and we all know who that is," Collins said, per Jordan Raanan of ESPN. "That would be the only person I would change out of our secondary group. Besides, the other two guys, [Rodgers-Cromarie] and [Jenkins], I love those two guys. They play hard. They love what they do. That first pick...he's a cancer."
I guess all those reports about Apple around draft time turned out
to be true. The player seemed to be a good choice judging by his rookie year. Obviously the person is a huge problem. This looks like the kind of situation where they are going to have to waive the guy. Unreal.
how many people are defending Apple and criticizing Collins. All of Collins' public comments have come in the last 3-4 weeks. Everything was kept in house when all along, the locker room knew who the anonymous quotes were coming from. I'll side with Collins everyday of the week over Apple.
Lets face it, Apple is an immature asshole who has thin skin and benefited from being surrounded by superior talent at Ohio State. Now that he is playing in a league where everyone was an All-American, he is failing miserably. Nice pick Reese. Could have had Taylor Decker, instead you took this fool. Yet another reason you are now unemployed.
however he has the political currency on that defense right now. Something was up with this dude (apple) from day 1, that first controversy in the combine interviews. Somebody knew something about this guy and his mommy issues. What was probably the last straw was Apple just flipping those guys off more or less when warned to straighten out his act. You can watch that guy on the field a literally see him taking off or dogging plays.
Collins essentially putting Apple on blast publicly today will upset some people for sure. Reality is, Apple put Collins on blast publicly two weeks ago, and thats what set this whole thing off.
Quote:
@art_stapleton
The final straw with Landon Collins in reference to Eli Apple was when Apple told reporters that Collins never talked to him about being a pro and a good teammate.
Made Collins look foolish.
At that point, Collins was done going out of his way to support and/or defend Apple.
a very hard working player with a ton of potential and skill. He tried to help Apple and is the type of teammate who will bend over backwards for you if you're receptive. Apple wasn't and went on to lie about Collins efforts to help him.
Collins isn't putting up with that bullshit from some kid who has created serious division and strife in the locker room. So he cuts him completely off, goes on IR and here we are.
Who the fuck is in charge of the Giants these days anyway? Collins might be entirely correct about Apple who seems by all accounts to be an immature pain in the ass. But Collins is making the situation worse, not better, by going on the air and saying these sorts of things. If I were John Mara Id call Collins on the phone and strongly suggest LC keep his fucking mouth shut about team business.
And this isnt me defending Eli Apple. Im sure Apple is a problem and maybe even a cancer. But Collins is only making things worse by airing his greivemce on the radio. The Giants are a fucking dumpster fire. Unbelievable.
Once again, Reese picks a bad apple (no pun intended). The man had no clue. Apple can't stay now either. He has no respect on this team. Might bring a 7th round pick and a six pack if they're lucky.
Glad Collins had the balls to say what needed to be said. This team has too many passive players and needed a wake up call. I hope they target mentally tough players in the upcoming offseason because they have very few and that's a big part of their problem.
is the structure of Apples contract. According to overthecap.com, Apples entire $15 million contract was guaranteed. Thus cutting him will cost $8.9 million in dead money and increase his 2018 cap number by $4.8 million. Good god this guy is the gift that keeps giving.
screwed with Apple. No trade value, and a big cap hit if we cut him.
I don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. I blame him for taking Apple. The warning signs with Apple were evident. Several teams apparently took him off their board.
This is where Collins bringing this outside the house does nothing but hurt the situation. First getting into a childish spat on social media and now taking it to the airwaves. We essentially have to figure out how to make this work, unless of course you want to take the cap hit. For me, despite how frustrated you are with Apple, he needs to attend the Eli school of media relations. Hopefully the new GM and HC will get control of this situation.
We should trade Apple for the best pick we can get. He's still a high upside corner (first round pedigree) with three years left of cost control. He may be able to fetch an early day 3 pick which has a lot of value for us. I'd rather a lotto ticket at RB or LB than a known locker room disrupter. We need a cultural shift. Leaving Apple around and hoping the situation gets better seems like the kind of mistakes we've been making too much recently. Clean house and clean out all the dirty laundry.
This is horrible for business. So what now? We cut him and take a huge cap hit? I doubt it. That isn't smart business. He would cost, not save, us $4,821,178 more on the cap. Ain't happening. Can we trade him? Not now that the whole world knows of the situation. So, the only solution here is to keep him on the roster and try to get through to him.
This is horrible for business. So what now? We cut him and take a huge cap hit? I doubt it. That isn't smart business. He would cost, not save, us $4,821,178 more on the cap. Ain't happening. Can we trade him? Not now that the whole world knows of the situation. So, the only solution here is to keep him on the roster and try to get through to him.
Why can't we trade him? Him being a problem in NY doesn't mean he'll be a problem elsewhere. I expect he won't be.
Cincinnati would seem like the perfect team to trade with.
Might as well keep him and bench him a full year as punishment
This is horrible for business. So what now? We cut him and take a huge cap hit? I doubt it. That isn't smart business. He would cost, not save, us $4,821,178 more on the cap. Ain't happening. Can we trade him? Not now that the whole world knows of the situation. So, the only solution here is to keep him on the roster and try to get through to him.
Why can't we trade him? Him being a problem in NY doesn't mean he'll be a problem elsewhere. I expect he won't be.
Cincinnati would seem like the perfect team to trade with.
Because you will get peanuts in return AND you still cost yourself almost $5 million in cap space for a team that doesn't have a ton of cap space and has many holes.
is the structure of Apples contract. According to overthecap.com, Apples entire $15 million contract was guaranteed. Thus cutting him will cost $8.9 million in dead money and increase his 2018 cap number by $4.8 million. Good god this guy is the gift that keeps giving.
All first round contracts are guaranteed. All contracts have forfeiture clauses. While the team was handing out suspensions for leaving the field (DRC)and Showing up late from the bye (Jenkings), Apple easily could have warranted a suspension for his tweeting during the game, yelling at Frank Mara during a game earlier in the season, or contradicting the injury report. Suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team would have voided the guarantees.
We should trade Apple for the best pick we can get. He's still a high upside corner (first round pedigree) with three years left of cost control. He may be able to fetch an early day 3 pick which has a lot of value for us. I'd rather a lotto ticket at RB or LB than a known locker room disrupter. We need a cultural shift. Leaving Apple around and hoping the situation gets better seems like the kind of mistakes we've been making too much recently. Clean house and clean out all the dirty laundry.
Actually there is only 2 years of cost controlled salaries. His 5th year option being a Top 10 pick will cost $15M.
is the structure of Apples contract. According to overthecap.com, Apples entire $15 million contract was guaranteed. Thus cutting him will cost $8.9 million in dead money and increase his 2018 cap number by $4.8 million. Good god this guy is the gift that keeps giving.
All first round contracts are guaranteed. All contracts have forfeiture clauses. While the team was handing out suspensions for leaving the field (DRC)and Showing up late from the bye (Jenkings), Apple easily could have warranted a suspension for his tweeting during the game, yelling at Frank Mara during a game earlier in the season, or contradicting the injury report. Suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team would have voided the guarantees.
You write these things as absolutes. Being a bad teammate or tweeting isnt going to void a multimillion dollar employment contract. The NFLPA is a pretty strong advocate for players and Im sure the Giants legal department provided advice and counsel. Not so simple.
Who is defending apple? Collins is right but should not have said anything in public imo. What does airing dirty laundry do? Let the coaches out him through a cut.
Shitty situation but I think you have to ride it out and see how he responds to the new coaching staff. If hes pulling the same crap in camp, you trade him for the best offer. There are plenty of CB needy teams out there who may surprise you with an offer. If the Giants cut him, he goes through waivers I believe and a team may be willing to give up something to get to the front of the line.
Such a shitty pick. Typical Reese move shiny skill guy (after paying top dollar for Jenkins and DRC the best defensive player in 15) when the OL is trash.
There is a reason families keep their private business private. Once its out there you cant take it back. It limits flexibility and almost sets you down a path of lose-lose. Weve invested a top ten pick in Apple. Its not like this team is so talented it can toss a top 10 pick away so cavalierly. Last year we were talking about the secondary being a strength of the team now its a shitshow like every other part of the team. From a human perspective, I feel bad for the kid who is going through a terrible situation that will have lasting reprucussions for him. I think its in the interest of everyone to try and work this out but it may now no longer be possible because Collins decided to go public. To me that decision also reflects a degree of immaturity.
All this situation does is make me convinced this team needs to hire some grown ups as GM and HC. No more whiz kids.
Collins has already tried to handle this in house, didn't they have a
near confrontation and had to be separated by teammates?
There are people whom you just can't get through to, no matter what tactics you try. It looks like Apple is one of those. Even though we don't know the details, we all know you have to side with Collins on this one.
It's a shame the owners, the coaches, and the more senior players on the roster aren't capable of getting through the Apples, prompting Collins to air out dirty laundry out in public.
Reese was a fucking disaster, and this is just another example. Usually you only see this type of shenanigans with dysfunctional teams, and I guess all signs point to us being one.
From all appearances, he and the other DBs have bent over backwards to try to help Apple and they've gotten nothing but spite and public lies in return from Apple. Apple wouldn't shut up, so Collins finally responded in kind.
Who is defending apple? Collins is right but should not have said anything in public imo. What does airing dirty laundry do? Let the coaches out him through a cut.
By calling out Collins, it's a de factor justification of Apple. By all accounts, Collins did everything he could to be a good teammate, mentor and leader. As such, he should not be second guessed for speaking in the press the last 2 weeks.
We can agree or disagree on whether Collins should air dirty laundry but it's in no way a justification of apple. Apple is a known bum. I can't stand him nor his mom's act last year and had my concerns then. Given the world knows this it may not be that bad but I am not a fan of outing poor performance or behavior.
Collins also said Ben needed to be the coach next season
By calling out Collins, it's a de factor justification of Apple. By all accounts, Collins did everything he could to be a good teammate, mentor and leader. As such, he should not be second guessed for speaking in the press the last 2 weeks.
That's certainly the way it seems to me too. I get it, keep this stuff in house, deal with it amongst yourselves. But at a certain point, a guy's causing enough problems that other guys can't keep quiet. None of us really know what's gone on, but there's a lot to suggest that Apple is, well, a bad apple, and Collins, if not others as well, have tried to connect with him and fix things. And he's not only been unreceptive, but has actually lied about Collins' efforts. I mean, it seems pretty reasonable at that point to speak out.
nothing is gained by feeding fodder to the media whose main interest is stirring up shit.
Collins should STFU. We get it already. He doesn't like Apple. No need to keep piling it on publicly. It's not like Eli (or most anyone) is going to react positively after being publicly disparaged. Every one is going home in a week and don't need to interact for several weeks. Tell management how you feel, and let them handle it.
"I worry about him because of off-the-field issues. The kid has no life skills. At all. Can't cook. Just a baby. He's not first round for me. He scares me to death."
how many people are defending Apple and criticizing Collins. All of Collins' public comments have come in the last 3-4 weeks. Everything was kept in house when all along, the locker room knew who the anonymous quotes were coming from. I'll side with Collins everyday of the week over Apple.
Lets face it, Apple is an immature asshole who has thin skin and benefited from being surrounded by superior talent at Ohio State. Now that he is playing in a league where everyone was an All-American, he is failing miserably. Nice pick Reese. Could have had Taylor Decker, instead you took this fool. Yet another reason you are now unemployed.
I think there's some validity to what you're saying, except that Taylor Decker also played at Ohio State, so the same "superior talent" argument would be true for him as well.
1) What we don't know is how much shit stirring drama is going on that other parents are dealing with.
2) When you are playing with the kind of deliberate lack of intensity and stubborn defiance of the norms of playing on a team...you are engaged in a form of stealing.
3) When you want to win and like to win and you must stay with a team but your undermanned team appears to have sunk a valuable draft slot on a deliberate loser; it sucks.
I am far less disturbed by the mistake Collins made (and I do think it is a mistake) than the obtuse behavior of Apple.
And I am upset at Mara who had a GM that drafted two 1st round picks who for different reasons still fit under the "uncoachable" label
But almost perfect in a way, really. Hopefully this seals a much needed final defeat so the #2 draft selection also sealed.
As for this Collins-Apple situation, I say good for Collins. Sure, by the book, he shouldn't have gone public.
But f-ck the book - Apple, who I loved at Ohio State, is a total loser and a self-centered c-ck sucker in the same mold as OBJ.
That Reese did a spectacular job of finding players of great character.
Knew this would happen. I get it man,OBJ has a selfish streak, we all know that. But show me where he quit on his team, gave up on a route, threatened to walk out, called a teammate a liar, or fed the media info? You don't have to like OBJ, but he is not Eli Apple.
Agreed with your sentiment. But we all know that Apple is a known burnt resource at this point. Very rare for this form of loser to rebound I won't count on it.
The Collins mistake is fresh and all he's doing is validating what we all know. He is still a teammate.
RE: Collins is fed up and I don't blame him one bit
From all appearances, he and the other DBs have bent over backwards to try to help Apple and they've gotten nothing but spite and public lies in return from Apple. Apple wouldn't shut up, so Collins finally responded in kind.
Although unusual handling. This in a way is the team leadership from the players that the organization needs. The organization might actually appreciate it in an internal way. This comment tells other in the league and out that our defense is a bunch of guys that do not put up with a bunch of malcontents and soft types. Men apply, others stay the fuck away please.
who say what should happen with Apple one way or the other. What we need is a head coach is a genuine leader and disciplinarian and who can set a whole new atmosphere in the locker room. He might cut Apple or he might rehabilitate him, but there is nothing fans can do to right this ship, and there is really no way to determine in the abstract what should be done. Great generals sometimes make an example by shooting someone and sometimes by pardoning someone.
This team is in desperate need of leadership which didn't come from McAdoo nor from those two clowns of owners who, in response to fan clamors to fire Reese and McAdoo, issued a statement saying they would deal with it only after the season and who then a couple of weeks later turned around and fired them.
how many people are defending Apple and criticizing Collins. All of Collins' public comments have come in the last 3-4 weeks. Everything was kept in house when all along, the locker room knew who the anonymous quotes were coming from. I'll side with Collins everyday of the week over Apple.
Lets face it, Apple is an immature asshole who has thin skin and benefited from being surrounded by superior talent at Ohio State. Now that he is playing in a league where everyone was an All-American, he is failing miserably. Nice pick Reese. Could have had Taylor Decker, instead you took this fool. Yet another reason you are now unemployed.
I think there's some validity to what you're saying, except that Taylor Decker also played at Ohio State, so the same "superior talent" argument would be true for him as well.
Yes, thats a fair point and one I considered. However, Decker has become a solid pro, borderline pro bowler.
But almost perfect in a way, really. Hopefully this seals a much needed final defeat so the #2 draft selection also sealed.
As for this Collins-Apple situation, I say good for Collins. Sure, by the book, he shouldn't have gone public.
But f-ck the book - Apple, who I loved at Ohio State, is a total loser and a self-centered c-ck sucker in the same mold as OBJ.
That Reese did a spectacular job of finding players of great character.
Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
Who the fuck is in charge of the Giants these days anyway? Collins might be entirely correct about Apple who seems by all accounts to be an immature pain in the ass. But Collins is making the situation worse, not better, by going on the air and saying these sorts of things. If I were John Mara Id call Collins on the phone and strongly suggest LC keep his fucking mouth shut about team business.
And this isnt me defending Eli Apple. Im sure Apple is a problem and maybe even a cancer. But Collins is only making things worse by airing his greivemce on the radio. The Giants are a fucking dumpster fire. Unbelievable.
Collins is a leader. They kept the issue in house and he has had enough. I for commend him. Apple is a multi millionaire. Don't care about his personal problems. In the real world, you get a divorce, your parents get a divorce, you might get 5 days off and after that...DO YOUR JOB.
There is no doubt the player in question (Apple), is the problem. This is not on Collins, and although I would prefer that players keep in-house problems in-house, Apple hasn't really been keeping it in-house either. He has handled himself in embarrassing fashion and clearly needs to do a complete 180 in terms of his attitude. History says this probably won't happen, which means he isn't long for this team. However, the best case scenario is that a new coach comes in and says everyone has a clean slate, and Apple takes advantage. However, that is not enough for Apple, he needs to earn back the respect of his teammates, and that means owning his failures as a player and a teammate, and acknowledging them.
If he does that, and if he commits to righting his wrongs and his standing on the team, he can come back and be a part of the positive future on this team. That is not something anyone should expect, however, given how this particular individual has handled adversity to this point.
I don't fault Reese or anyone else for the pick. If you remove the personality stuff, he remains a long corner with great speed and cover ability, attributes that are rare. He is as gifted an athlete as there is on this team. As a player, he has the potential to be an All-Pro corner, still. But if he doesn't decide to make the sacrifices necessary on the field, and if he doesn't set aside his ego, and if he doesn't truly desire to be a great player, he'll never get there. I was a fan of the pick because I thought he was the best corner in the draft and the best value at the pick. As has been said by other personnel men, you don't often miss on the player, you miss on the person. That seems to be the case here...so far.
Don't mind Collins, he's earned the right to speak out. Ball is in Apple's court to accept his responsibility in this debacle and turn it around.
RE: RE: This is a hell of a way to end this season...
Quote:
Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
Don't sweat it. I have never bought this "pen is mightier than the sword" stuff.
I've been off and on at this site since Eric gave birth to BBI 20+ years ago. So someone's adulation for a conman like OBJ doesn't surprise me. He's about individual achievement on the field and hits & clicks off the field via social media. Can you honestly stay with a straight face that this clown would rather win than have gaudy stats?
Look, he's an extraordinary physical talent. I think the most gifted WR I have ever seen - including Rice. But I think he's the wrong for this team, especially if they chose a QB in the upcoming draft. If OBJ is willing to challenge Eli, can you imagine how he would run over a young QB? That would be a catastrophe...So like Apple, he need to go as well...
RE: RE: RE: This is a hell of a way to end this season...
Quote:
Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
Don't sweat it. I have never bought this "pen is mightier than the sword" stuff.
I've been off and on at this site since Eric gave birth to BBI 20+ years ago. So someone's adulation for a conman like OBJ doesn't surprise me. He's about individual achievement on the field and hits & clicks off the field via social media. Can you honestly stay with a straight face that this clown would rather win than have gaudy stats?
Look, he's an extraordinary physical talent. I think the most gifted WR I have ever seen - including Rice. But I think he's the wrong for this team, especially if they chose a QB in the upcoming draft. If OBJ is willing to challenge Eli, can you imagine how he would run over a young QB? That would be a catastrophe...So like Apple, he need to go as well...
Absolutely, you show me another player on this roster more sold out to win and more of a competitor, because there isn't one. There may be a player or two that matches his will to win but you won't find another player that demands more from himself, that works harder, and wants to win more than OBJ. You don't have a clue whatsoever in calling him a conman? GTFO. That's just a clown comment.
RE: RE: RE: This is a hell of a way to end this season...
Quote:
Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
Don't sweat it. I have never bought this "pen is mightier than the sword" stuff.
I've been off and on at this site since Eric gave birth to BBI 20+ years ago. So someone's adulation for a conman like OBJ doesn't surprise me. He's about individual achievement on the field and hits & clicks off the field via social media. Can you honestly stay with a straight face that this clown would rather win than have gaudy stats?
Look, he's an extraordinary physical talent. I think the most gifted WR I have ever seen - including Rice. But I think he's the wrong for this team, especially if they chose a QB in the upcoming draft. If OBJ is willing to challenge Eli, can you imagine how he would run over a young QB? That would be a catastrophe...So like Apple, he need to go as well...
I appreciate your point, but I don't think evidence supports your conclusion. When has OBJ challenged Eli? He's also widely liked in the locker room, he even babysits for snacks. I don't think he's all about stats either. How many times have you heard him say that this catch or that catch didn't matter cause the Giants lost the game. In fact, it's exactly what he said about The Catch against the Cowboys his rookie year. I think the young man does want to win, he just needs to work on being a professional on and off the field.
Apple is a quitter and betrayer of his teammates. OBJ is the exact opposite of that.
From a practice standpoint its Collins whos hurting the team
Lets say the new GM wants to trade Apple, how in the world is anyone supposed to shop Apple around the NFL?
Look, Im all for Collins dropping the hammer on Apple in the DB meeting room. He can yell at Apple on the field or the sidelines or in practice all he likes. That could actually be considered leadership. Ill bet Carl Banks would agree to that style of leadership. But you cant throw your teammates under the bus in the media. Its got to be like pro sports 101 or the golden rule of being on a team. Nothing good will come of Collins comments. Again, Im not defending Apple who really does seem like a world class putz. But nothing good will from Collins calling for Apple to be cut in the press. Whens the last time you ever heard any NFL player make a comment like that during the season about a teammate?
Guys have a week left of this disastrous season. Try to avoid the press and if youve got a radio or tv gig, say the right things and avoid the media traps.
thats messed up to say and should have been kept in house. Would have expected Spags to have handled this after last weeks fiasco but I guess he failed to do so. Someone needs to get these guys under control and teach them what it means to be a team and have each others backs (publicly at least) no matter what. Sad that LC was considered one of the leaders of this team and this is how he handles business. We need a head coach who is a leader of men. This is pathetic.
Do you think Collins is an idiot? .... Apple must be so out of control ... a statement like this (made public) ... probably couldn't hurt any worse?
but he shouldn't have said this publicly. This team has no real head coach to guide them with media relations. Tom C was great at doing that. Spags must not be impressing on the team, to not talk dirt about your own team to the media.
If Apple ends up gone after this season, what a major first round bust. Brutal!
...but he was wrong to have gone public with that statement about Eli Apple. That stuff needs to stay in the locker room, not on the radio!
It would have been much better if he just said Apple needs to grow up and think about his play and general behavior in the context of the entire team... and leave it at that.
I just have one request: Could someone please notify me the moment this season is officially over for the Giants.
to enable a self entitled Millennial anymore. Collins tried to handle it in house and Apple threw him under the bus. So good for Collins. Its time to be tough on him and release him if need be.
Apple is a fucking mess. It sounds like Collins has tried everything to help him and it hasn't worked. Now he slams on him in public, maybe that will do something.
There must be some really bad shit going on that we don't know about.
is the structure of Apples contract. According to overthecap.com, Apples entire $15 million contract was guaranteed. Thus cutting him will cost $8.9 million in dead money and increase his 2018 cap number by $4.8 million. Good god this guy is the gift that keeps giving.
All first round contracts are guaranteed. All contracts have forfeiture clauses. While the team was handing out suspensions for leaving the field (DRC)and Showing up late from the bye (Jenkings), Apple easily could have warranted a suspension for his tweeting during the game, yelling at Frank Mara during a game earlier in the season, or contradicting the injury report. Suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team would have voided the guarantees.
You write these things as absolutes. Being a bad teammate or tweeting isnt going to void a multimillion dollar employment contract. The NFLPA is a pretty strong advocate for players and Im sure the Giants legal department provided advice and counsel. Not so simple.
It doesn't void the contract. It just voids the guarantees. The Giants would still retain his rights. If he continues to play for the Giants, then he would earn every dime that is coming to him.
Tweeting during a game is against league rules. He was inactive for that game because of being placed on the injury report on Friday. When asked why he wasn't active in his twitter tirade, he said he was "too healthy" with a shoulder shrug emoji. His communication is in direct contradiction with the team's assertion that he is injured. Playing games with the injury report can trigger the league office into investigating and fining a team. Threatening to walk out of the facility after a film session and what many believe Apple was the anonymous source in the hit piece earlier in the season, clearly demonstrates conduct detrimental to the team.
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
and their suspensions were linked to something Apple did or was linked to? Who knows maybe Collins and others decided that their livelihoods were being severely affected by this momma's boy.
RE: Apple's behavior and Collin's reaction to it aren't the real problem
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
You are making it bigger than it is. One guy did not derail the team. One guy pissed off one player and probably his position group. Collins did not call out anyone else, but Apple. He's frustrated because Apple is not playing up to expectations and behaving like a brat.
RE: RE: Apple's behavior and Collin's reaction to it aren't the real problem
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
You are making it bigger than it is. One guy did not derail the team. One guy pissed off one player and probably his position group. Collins did not call out anyone else, but Apple. He's frustrated because Apple is not playing up to expectations and behaving like a brat.
i just dont see how Collins praises DRC and Jenkins...then disses Apple.
DRC "quit" on the team and got suspended for it. Jenkins "quit" on the team and got suspended for it.
But Apple is the cancer. I guess it just depends on who you hang out with the most?!?
I've read some about Eli Apple
optimist : 9:48 am : link : reply
Background,
Father managed him, Mother took care of him..I think he was close to both..
His father was fired as his manager
his father and mother divorced
It has been suggested he is at odds with his father
His mother just underwent brain surgery.
If he isn't as crazy as a friggen bedbug right now then he's a super individual
In pure conjecture I would say he's telling the guys," Screw off, This is my problem and I don't want your pity or your help!"
I would further speculate that he needs professional help. He's getting all kinds of pressure from the press, his teammates, BBI, his family and his inner feelings.
Unfortunately the Home office of the Giants is also all screwed up so there's no one to step in and suggest professional help is the preferred avenue of help for Eli Apple.
I know if anyone came near me when I had such problems I would cause much more....At 48, my wife became a quad..I became a caretaker, and immediate mother of five great kids and a guy who had to put food on the table and spend all other time at the hospital with my only love who needed me to hold her hand.
My kids were just great and took a lot of stuff they weren't prepared for and just did it!
I was so prickly I made a porcupine feel like a warm puppy.
Damn this young kid has big time problems..Except that his family needs the money I'm surprised he hasn't come on BBI and the team paper and told all to go screw themselves and just let him work!!!
He needs professional help...WE both didn't get it but she loved me.
Eli is missing that more than anything.
In all honesty, football is a nice game ...but it is just a game!!!
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
You are making it bigger than it is. One guy did not derail the team. One guy pissed off one player and probably his position group. Collins did not call out anyone else, but Apple. He's frustrated because Apple is not playing up to expectations and behaving like a brat.
i just dont see how Collins praises DRC and Jenkins...then disses Apple.
DRC "quit" on the team and got suspended for it. Jenkins "quit" on the team and got suspended for it.
But Apple is the cancer. I guess it just depends on who you hang out with the most?!?
You are being loose with your definition of "quit". Jenkins was not suspended for quitting on the team. He missed the first day back after the bye without an excuse. DRC left the field at the end of the game before the game was officially over. Some might consider that quitting, but I see a player that has been hustling all over the field in meaningless games. He left out of frustration. If we want to start labeling players who quit, then let's start with JPP.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Apple's behavior and Collin's reaction to it aren't the real problem
You are being loose with your definition of "quit". Jenkins was not suspended for quitting on the team. He missed the first day back after the bye without an excuse. DRC left the field at the end of the game before the game was officially over. Some might consider that quitting, but I see a player that has been hustling all over the field in meaningless games. He left out of frustration. If we want to start labeling players who quit, then let's start with JPP.
yes, i was intentionally being loose with the term quitting.
Jenkins was mad/uninspired. didnt have a desire to return to the team on time, like everyone else. he didnt consider the consequences. he put himself over the team. so to me, that's "quitting on the team"
DRC did more than leave the field early. you may wanna read up on that a little more
as far as JPP. i just don't think he has it anymore.
of this. I don't think people fully understand just how unusual it is for a player to describe a teammate as a "cancer" regardless of how much merit it has. My suspicion (and my hope) is his words may have been taken out of context - this is not the kind of shit stirring a franchise wants their star player to be involved in.
of this. I don't think people fully understand just how unusual it is for a player to describe a teammate as a "cancer" regardless of how much merit it has. My suspicion (and my hope) is his words may have been taken out of context - this is not the kind of shit stirring a franchise wants their star player to be involved in.
Its been posted. And no, not taken out of context at all. Thread - ( New Window )
the game after he was suspended. And DRC's antics. Yet Collins praises them?
I think its becoming clear that there was some disgust from the veterans towards McAdoo and how the coaches were treating Apple with preferential treatment when it came to play and accountability. All of a sudden Apple gets benched, the corners play hard again.
RE: RE: Still waiting for someone to post the audio
of this. I don't think people fully understand just how unusual it is for a player to describe a teammate as a "cancer" regardless of how much merit it has. My suspicion (and my hope) is his words may have been taken out of context - this is not the kind of shit stirring a franchise wants their star player to be involved in.
Its been posted. And no, not taken out of context at all. Thread - ( New Window )
Thanks - I also just found this online a few moments ago. Actually, when put in context, it comes out a lot worse. The question posed to Collins was about what changes at CB he would suggest to a new GM, and without much prodding he clearly singled out Eli Apple.
To me, Apple being referred to as a cancer shouldn't even be the biggest takeaway from the interview - Landon Collins clearly does not want Eli Apple as a teammate. And the fact that he feels this emboldened to say it publicly (albeit without specifically naming him) suggests that there may be a broader consensus on this in the locker.
One way or the other this is a bad situation that will have ramifications for the team going in to next season. You have a player who was just a high draft pick who seemingly isn't well-liked on the team, and another player who is showing less and less restraint with what he says to the media. Someone needs to rein this shit in fast.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is a hell of a way to end this season...
I appreciate your point, but I don't think evidence supports your conclusion. When has OBJ challenged Eli? He's also widely liked in the locker room, he even babysits for snacks. I don't think he's all about stats either. How many times have you heard him say that this catch or that catch didn't matter cause the Giants lost the game. In fact, it's exactly what he said about The Catch against the Cowboys his rookie year. I think the young man does want to win, he just needs to work on being a professional on and off the field.
Apple is a quitter and betrayer of his teammates. OBJ is the exact opposite of that.
Yes, Apple is the ultimate football sinner - he quit on his team. I cede the point. But I'm talking about character flaws. Flaws that hurt the development of the team. And both Apple and OBJ have the character flaws that are detrimental to the team.
OBJ has ranted and raved about not getting the ball enough, in games and after games. Those acts trace to Eli as being OBJ's problem. And that is a player - a selfish player - showing up the team's trigger man. If OBJ has the audacity to do it to someone with Eli's trophy case, just what the hell will he do if the Jints bring in a QB from this draft? That is dangerous to this team's future...
Of course, unlike many OBJ fan club members, I don't buy this as an act of passion by a player desperate to win. Why should I? Because OBJ disguises his selfishness by saying how badly he wants to win? Deal lord - that is the oldest trick in the diva WR's book...
OBJ is this - a more talented MeShawn Johnson. A really good case can be made for trading his for picks and using the free agent market to sign someone like Davante Adams...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is a hell of a way to end this season...
I appreciate your point, but I don't think evidence supports your conclusion. When has OBJ challenged Eli? He's also widely liked in the locker room, he even babysits for snacks. I don't think he's all about stats either. How many times have you heard him say that this catch or that catch didn't matter cause the Giants lost the game. In fact, it's exactly what he said about The Catch against the Cowboys his rookie year. I think the young man does want to win, he just needs to work on being a professional on and off the field.
Apple is a quitter and betrayer of his teammates. OBJ is the exact opposite of that.
Yes, Apple is the ultimate football sinner - he quit on his team. I cede the point. But I'm talking about character flaws. Flaws that hurt the development of the team. And both Apple and OBJ have the character flaws that are detrimental to the team.
OBJ has ranted and raved about not getting the ball enough, in games and after games. Those acts trace to Eli as being OBJ's problem. And that is a player - a selfish player - showing up the team's trigger man. If OBJ has the audacity to do it to someone with Eli's trophy case, just what the hell will he do if the Jints bring in a QB from this draft? That is dangerous to this team's future...
Of course, unlike many OBJ fan club members, I don't buy this as an act of passion by a player desperate to win. Why should I? Because OBJ disguises his selfishness by saying how badly he wants to win? Deal lord - that is the oldest trick in the diva WR's book...
OBJ is this - a more talented MeShawn Johnson. A really good case can be made for trading his for picks and using the free agent market to sign someone like Davante Adams...
WE ARE NOT TRADING OBJ
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is a hell of a way to end this season...
Yes, Apple is the ultimate football sinner - he quit on his team. I cede the point. But I'm talking about character flaws. Flaws that hurt the development of the team. And both Apple and OBJ have the character flaws that are detrimental to the team.
OBJ has ranted and raved about not getting the ball enough, in games and after games. Those acts trace to Eli as being OBJ's problem. And that is a player - a selfish player - showing up the team's trigger man. If OBJ has the audacity to do it to someone with Eli's trophy case, just what the hell will he do if the Jints bring in a QB from this draft? That is dangerous to this team's future...
Of course, unlike many OBJ fan club members, I don't buy this as an act of passion by a player desperate to win. Why should I? Because OBJ disguises his selfishness by saying how badly he wants to win? Deal lord - that is the oldest trick in the diva WR's book...
OBJ is this - a more talented MeShawn Johnson. A really good case can be made for trading his for picks and using the free agent market to sign someone like Davante Adams...
WE ARE NOT TRADING OBJ
Don't be so sure. I think it's one of the four major issues/questions in this offseason:
What to do with Eli?
What do to with our draft pick?
What to do with Apple?
What to do with OBJ?
Id say almost everyone is up for grabs. Safest players are probably Shephard, Engram, Tomlinson and Collins. Everyone else that is expensive or a problem child is on watch imo.
I met with Coach Spags and Eli this morning and I apologized for the things I said yesterday. I never stop supporting my brother/teammate Eli and the rest of my teammates as we move forward. Just want him to know I'm always here for him 💯@EliApple13
getting back to the original premise of this thread. Is Eli A.
There's a poster who gave a copy of an article of the problems that developed sin Eli A.'s close family.
There is no doubt Collins abated to help out but he's not a therapist nor does he have the advantage or disadvantage of having experienced personal tragedy.
So it's unlikely that he pursued the proper tack in dealing with Eli A.
As a consequence Eli's response to Collins' suggestion that Collins' offer to help was not acknowledged, is merely a ,"Shit if that's help, I'm in deep shit!"
AndCollins being the "wonder boy " of the defense took umbrage rather than recognizing that his help was worse that not having any help.
This is not to say Eli's response was a good one but it sure was what he felt and in his present pain, I could see him thinking, "Go away, just go away and leave me be!" and Eli wanting to be left alone.
My feeling is that Collins should be asking the front office to get Eli A. professional help instead of adding to the kids' pain!
But also remember Collins is what 22 years old? Where would he get that wisdom not to be offended by a fellow player in pain?
And where is the front office player helper outer? This kid needs a soft shouldered some body to listen not push! It would really help if that person was someone professional and with experience in these matters. Sometimes the greatest pain is not physical!
He's a cancer, and immature child who has been babied
who say what should happen with Apple one way or the other. What we need is a head coach is a genuine leader and disciplinarian and who can set a whole new atmosphere in the locker room. He might cut Apple or he might rehabilitate him, but there is nothing fans can do to right this ship, and there is really no way to determine in the abstract what should be done. Great generals sometimes make an example by shooting someone and sometimes by pardoning someone.
This team is in desperate need of leadership which didn't come from McAdoo nor from those two clowns of owners who, in response to fan clamors to fire Reese and McAdoo, issued a statement saying they would deal with it only after the season and who then a couple of weeks later turned around and fired them.
The problem with Apples is not simply his attitude. It is his ability. He still needs a ton of coaching and hasn't improved at all.
RE: Apple's behavior and Collin's reaction to it aren't the real problem
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
Is it really a locker room full of veterans? There are some veterans on the D. But, overwhelmingly it is filled with players in their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd years...or off the street within the last few weeks.
On one hand, I am thrilled he is stepping up to be the leader this D has been lacking for a couple of years. On the other, I think he went a little too far with what he has said publicly. That doesn't mean Apple isn't deserving of every word; he clearly is.
who say what should happen with Apple one way or the other. What we need is a head coach is a genuine leader and disciplinarian and who can set a whole new atmosphere in the locker room. He might cut Apple or he might rehabilitate him, but there is nothing fans can do to right this ship, and there is really no way to determine in the abstract what should be done. Great generals sometimes make an example by shooting someone and sometimes by pardoning someone.
This team is in desperate need of leadership which didn't come from McAdoo nor from those two clowns of owners who, in response to fan clamors to fire Reese and McAdoo, issued a statement saying they would deal with it only after the season and who then a couple of weeks later turned around and fired them.
The problem with Apples is not simply his attitude. It is his ability. He still needs a ton of coaching and hasn't improved at all.
last year, we were saying that Apple was a couple steps away from being really good. we were all saying "if he just learns to turn his head around, etc etc..."
i don't see how you can access his play on the field, since we've been bad at every level...
no pass rush, LBs suck...everyone has sucked
his head has not been in the game this year, and i understand why. if he fixes a few relationships in his life...the physical will follow
people are so quick to "trade" somebody. lets get this season over with. let him fix his family issues and reaccess this thing in the spring
One more game!
One more game!
During the game on Sunday they showed the clip of Odell being carted off the field with his injury - I feel like I haven't seen him play football in two years.
No, hes clearly not. A leader never would have handled in house issues like this. Its pathetic and sad.
fucking Reese
So they were 0-4, and basically out of the playoffs, before
homegame #2 when the fans have even has a second look at the team.
That is how you ruin a season.
IIRC. That fifth game, homegame #2, was against the also 0-4 Chargers, which they lost.
He s a leader. He tried it in house. He s fed up and he cares. Good for him.
Apple and his inability to take responsibility for himself, is going to cost him his career.
Same with our wide receivers...Its almost comical. The talent Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks should have had them here for 10yrs dominating. Injuries and fade out.
I think the issue is kink of a glaring now though. Our FO focused to much on talent than personality and traits.
Do we know what has gone on in house that causes Collins to speak out? No
Should Spags keep Collins from speaking? How?
I heard Apple was sitting by himself on the sideline this week talking to no one and basically ostracizing himself from the team. If that's true, imagine what's going on in the locker room, in meetings and practices. Hell, on the plane.
Not sure what Collins' statement accomplishes other than to possibly let other players know that no one is immune from criticism even with one game to go. Only Collins really knows the intent.
What a mess.
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Collins is a team leader. That's a message to everyone from ownership down to Apple himself.
No, hes clearly not. A leader never would have handled in house issues like this. Its pathetic and sad.
All that said, for Collins to call Apple a "cancer" means Eli is taking the team down from within. Can't have that on this team. Especially not when it is a guy who is a JAG.
Then, instead of acting like a man and going out to prove himself, Apple has instead acted like a child. Collins plays injured and he plays hard. He has earned the right to call this spoiled brat out.
I think the whole team is done with Apple and Collins was speaking for his teammates.
Honestly, it sounds like Eli Apple's issues run very deep and are beyond football. But people with issues make enemies. If you make enough enemies at your workplace, people turn on you.
Observations from the stadium today - ( New Window )
I'll take Collins side 100x out of 100.
Glad he came him out. Everyone else is soft on this kid.
I'll take Collins side 100x out of 100.
Glad he came him out. Everyone else is soft on this kid.
*called him out
@art_stapleton
Landon Collins never mentions Eli Apple by name, but in interview with @ESPNNY98_7FM today, when asked about potential changes in #Giants secondary by @espnbob, he says: That first pick ... hes a cancer.
Link - ( New Window )
He s a leader. He tried it in house. He s fed up and he cares. Good for him.
Apple and his inability to take responsibility for himself, is going to cost him his career.
Normally I would prefer this kept in house but like you, not this time.
I think it's pretty obvious now that Apple was the anonymous link to that Josena whatever her name is article and tweets about the team back about 4-6 weeks ago.
The D seemed pretty pissed off whoever it was wasn't man enough to put his name to it, and I think we can pretty much tell they know it was Apple. Saying stuff like what LC said today and the team basically ignoring Apple on the sidelines is pretty telling IMO.
Not sure how I feel about what Collins did. But Eli Apple should not be a NY Giant next year.
fucking Reese
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
But Collins just broke his arm in a meaningless game. He and Harrison have never quit. Apple did. I originally thought that it was too early to give up on Apple. But it might be better for everyone to part ways. In any event, the final judgment belongs to his teammates. And it looks like they have already rendered their verdict.
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then and I hate it now
fucking Reese
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
Multiple teammates have commented that they have tried talking to and mentoring him but he doesn't listen.
Apple has been a locker room problem since mini camp
He's been identified as a player who just couldn't seem to care less during camp
His play on the field, even when he was trying has been underwhelming
We all saw the 49er game, and when he was called out by teammates during a film session, he almost walked out on the team.
He violated league rules by tweeting during a game.
He was disciplined for yelling at his coaches.
He is widely suspected of being the anonymous locker room source.
And recent reports indicate he is ostracized from his teammates even on game day.
Unless Eli Apple grows up extremely fast, he needs to go! I wouldn't even give him a jersey on game day this week.
Whatever Collins motives you have to believe he is extremely frustrated by this situation. When you are a self motivated person few things annoy you more than unmotivated, selfish, entitled people. Especially when you have to work with them. I believe Collins is speaking for the vast majority of his teammates on this issue, and is signaling to the incoming Coach and GM that the Giants can't win with Eli Apple. Not sure I would go public like this but looking at everything, I can see why Collins did.
Also, was anyone else less than amused to see Annie Apples segment on ESPN this Sunday. Her comments on when to get involved with your sons career while talking with other NFL moms was concerning.
He called Collins a liar. Everyone remember Reese called Apple the cleanest pick. Not so clean is he
Apple has been a locker room problem since mini camp
He's been identified as a player who just couldn't seem to care less during camp
His play on the field, even when he was trying has been underwhelming
We all saw the 49er game, and when he was called out by teammates during a film session, he almost walked out on the team.
He violated league rules by tweeting during a game.
He was disciplined for yelling at his coaches.
He is widely suspected of being the anonymous locker room source.
And recent reports indicate he is ostracized from his teammates even on game day.
Unless Eli Apple grows up extremely fast, he needs to go! I wouldn't even give him a jersey on game day this week.
Whatever Collins motives you have to believe he is extremely frustrated by this situation. When you are a self motivated person few things annoy you more than unmotivated, selfish, entitled people. Especially when you have to work with them. I believe Collins is speaking for the vast majority of his teammates on this issue, and is signaling to the incoming Coach and GM that the Giants can't win with Eli Apple. Not sure I would go public like this but looking at everything, I can see why Collins did.
Also, was anyone else less than amused to see Annie Apples segment on ESPN this Sunday. Her comments on when to get involved with your sons career while talking with other NFL moms was concerning.
Excellent analysis.
This. At this point he could play while wearing that gas mask bong and still play better thank Apple
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then and I hate it now
fucking Reese
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
This. Whats it say about a captain that speaks out of turn like that? What is this team doing to get this fixed? Nothing. I like both players, but this isnt helping either player. We need them all. Certainly the 10th pick in last years draft and our all-pro safety are needed players. Spags has been a disaster. If there was one thing he needed to fix, this was it.
I don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. I blame him for taking Apple. The warning signs with Apple were evident. Several teams apparently took him off their board.
Like I said, if they suspended him due to conduct detrimental to the team, it would trigger the forfeiture clause in his contract that would void the guarantees of his future salary and allow the team to pursue repayment of the signing bonus.
What would his trade value be?
I keep wondering if they were actually watching Apple's teammate (Marshon Lattimore - possible All-Pro rookie this season) and simply mistook the two guys.
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then and I hate it now
fucking Reese
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
From multiple accounts, teammates have tried to mentor Apple but he hasn't not been opening to listening. You can't blame this behavior on anyone else. He's not even motivated to play much less fight for his starting spot against Ross Cockerel! Who also has just flat outplayed him. It's up to Apple. Not Collins, not Snacks, not Slags.
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In comment 13755041 Paulie Walnuts said:
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then and I hate it now
fucking Reese
Oh please. Gil Brandt called Apple the best rookie CB last season. All Apple probably needed was some leadership from the vets and his coaches. And this quote alone shows it wasnt coming from the so called vets or coaches
From multiple accounts, teammates have tried to mentor Apple but he hasn't not been opening to listening. You can't blame this behavior on anyone else. He's not even motivated to play much less fight for his starting spot against Ross Cockerel! Who also has just flat outplayed him. It's up to Apple. Not Collins, not Snacks, not Slags.
Spags,not slags.
I think Collins is trying to force Apple's departure.
Spags is going to be shown the door in a week or so. What do you think he's going to do? There's no one stearing the ship right now. Damn thing is on auto pilot and going to crash and burn
Disagree. Sometimes it takes someone like Collins speaking out publicly to change things
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Apple needs to grow up and Collins needs to shut up
Disagree. Sometimes it takes someone like Collins speaking out publicly to change things
There is truth in this. Sometimes leadership is messy, and when the individual with the problem is not accepting private mentoring, and has denied teammates have reached out to him, and continues to hurt the greater whole, you are well within your rights to take it public.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the new GM and head coach, who already need to turn around a win team, with QB questions, may not want to inherit this issue and might be willing to pay for Apple not being part of the team.
My guess is it's even uglier behind closed doors.
I really doubt they're cutting Apple so hopefully they not only get him some help this offseason but they'll also need someone to mend the fences between these two guys.
I can't see Apple dressing next week.
Lets face it, Apple is an immature asshole who has thin skin and benefited from being surrounded by superior talent at Ohio State. Now that he is playing in a league where everyone was an All-American, he is failing miserably. Nice pick Reese. Could have had Taylor Decker, instead you took this fool. Yet another reason you are now unemployed.
Source: Landon Collins and other defensive backs were fed up with the disrespect Eli Apple showed secondary coach Dave Merritt in meetings.
Collins tried on multiple occasions to help Apple but was taken back when Apple basically called Collins a liar to media
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@NYGDaily
disrespect Eli Apple showed secondary coach Dave Merritt in meetings.
bye bye Apple. Not too many organizations or businesses will put up with this. Now we know why he is on the bench.
Collins essentially putting Apple on blast publicly today will upset some people for sure. Reality is, Apple put Collins on blast publicly two weeks ago, and thats what set this whole thing off.
The final straw with Landon Collins in reference to Eli Apple was when Apple told reporters that Collins never talked to him about being a pro and a good teammate.
Made Collins look foolish.
At that point, Collins was done going out of his way to support and/or defend Apple.
Collins isn't putting up with that bullshit from some kid who has created serious division and strife in the locker room. So he cuts him completely off, goes on IR and here we are.
Except maybe Behre.
And this isnt me defending Eli Apple. Im sure Apple is a problem and maybe even a cancer. But Collins is only making things worse by airing his greivemce on the radio. The Giants are a fucking dumpster fire. Unbelievable.
Glad Collins had the balls to say what needed to be said. This team has too many passive players and needed a wake up call. I hope they target mentally tough players in the upcoming offseason because they have very few and that's a big part of their problem.
I don't blame Reese for not taking Tunsil. I blame him for taking Apple. The warning signs with Apple were evident. Several teams apparently took him off their board.
This is where Collins bringing this outside the house does nothing but hurt the situation. First getting into a childish spat on social media and now taking it to the airwaves. We essentially have to figure out how to make this work, unless of course you want to take the cap hit. For me, despite how frustrated you are with Apple, he needs to attend the Eli school of media relations. Hopefully the new GM and HC will get control of this situation.
Why can't we trade him? Him being a problem in NY doesn't mean he'll be a problem elsewhere. I expect he won't be.
Cincinnati would seem like the perfect team to trade with.
Make him take some FS snaps too
Just break him down.
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This is horrible for business. So what now? We cut him and take a huge cap hit? I doubt it. That isn't smart business. He would cost, not save, us $4,821,178 more on the cap. Ain't happening. Can we trade him? Not now that the whole world knows of the situation. So, the only solution here is to keep him on the roster and try to get through to him.
Why can't we trade him? Him being a problem in NY doesn't mean he'll be a problem elsewhere. I expect he won't be.
Cincinnati would seem like the perfect team to trade with.
Because you will get peanuts in return AND you still cost yourself almost $5 million in cap space for a team that doesn't have a ton of cap space and has many holes.
All first round contracts are guaranteed. All contracts have forfeiture clauses. While the team was handing out suspensions for leaving the field (DRC)and Showing up late from the bye (Jenkings), Apple easily could have warranted a suspension for his tweeting during the game, yelling at Frank Mara during a game earlier in the season, or contradicting the injury report. Suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team would have voided the guarantees.
Actually there is only 2 years of cost controlled salaries. His 5th year option being a Top 10 pick will cost $15M.
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is the structure of Apples contract. According to overthecap.com, Apples entire $15 million contract was guaranteed. Thus cutting him will cost $8.9 million in dead money and increase his 2018 cap number by $4.8 million. Good god this guy is the gift that keeps giving.
All first round contracts are guaranteed. All contracts have forfeiture clauses. While the team was handing out suspensions for leaving the field (DRC)and Showing up late from the bye (Jenkings), Apple easily could have warranted a suspension for his tweeting during the game, yelling at Frank Mara during a game earlier in the season, or contradicting the injury report. Suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team would have voided the guarantees.
You write these things as absolutes. Being a bad teammate or tweeting isnt going to void a multimillion dollar employment contract. The NFLPA is a pretty strong advocate for players and Im sure the Giants legal department provided advice and counsel. Not so simple.
Such a shitty pick. Typical Reese move shiny skill guy (after paying top dollar for Jenkins and DRC the best defensive player in 15) when the OL is trash.
All this situation does is make me convinced this team needs to hire some grown ups as GM and HC. No more whiz kids.
There are people whom you just can't get through to, no matter what tactics you try. It looks like Apple is one of those. Even though we don't know the details, we all know you have to side with Collins on this one.
It's a shame the owners, the coaches, and the more senior players on the roster aren't capable of getting through the Apples, prompting Collins to air out dirty laundry out in public.
Reese was a fucking disaster, and this is just another example. Usually you only see this type of shenanigans with dysfunctional teams, and I guess all signs point to us being one.
By calling out Collins, it's a de factor justification of Apple. By all accounts, Collins did everything he could to be a good teammate, mentor and leader. As such, he should not be second guessed for speaking in the press the last 2 weeks.
and that sums it up.
That's certainly the way it seems to me too. I get it, keep this stuff in house, deal with it amongst yourselves. But at a certain point, a guy's causing enough problems that other guys can't keep quiet. None of us really know what's gone on, but there's a lot to suggest that Apple is, well, a bad apple, and Collins, if not others as well, have tried to connect with him and fix things. And he's not only been unreceptive, but has actually lied about Collins' efforts. I mean, it seems pretty reasonable at that point to speak out.
Collins should STFU. We get it already. He doesn't like Apple. No need to keep piling it on publicly. It's not like Eli (or most anyone) is going to react positively after being publicly disparaged. Every one is going home in a week and don't need to interact for several weeks. Tell management how you feel, and let them handle it.
Wow.
Lets face it, Apple is an immature asshole who has thin skin and benefited from being surrounded by superior talent at Ohio State. Now that he is playing in a league where everyone was an All-American, he is failing miserably. Nice pick Reese. Could have had Taylor Decker, instead you took this fool. Yet another reason you are now unemployed.
I think there's some validity to what you're saying, except that Taylor Decker also played at Ohio State, so the same "superior talent" argument would be true for him as well.
As for this Collins-Apple situation, I say good for Collins. Sure, by the book, he shouldn't have gone public.
But f-ck the book - Apple, who I loved at Ohio State, is a total loser and a self-centered c-ck sucker in the same mold as OBJ.
That Reese did a spectacular job of finding players of great character.
2) When you are playing with the kind of deliberate lack of intensity and stubborn defiance of the norms of playing on a team...you are engaged in a form of stealing.
3) When you want to win and like to win and you must stay with a team but your undermanned team appears to have sunk a valuable draft slot on a deliberate loser; it sucks.
I am far less disturbed by the mistake Collins made (and I do think it is a mistake) than the obtuse behavior of Apple.
And I am upset at Mara who had a GM that drafted two 1st round picks who for different reasons still fit under the "uncoachable" label
As for this Collins-Apple situation, I say good for Collins. Sure, by the book, he shouldn't have gone public.
But f-ck the book - Apple, who I loved at Ohio State, is a total loser and a self-centered c-ck sucker in the same mold as OBJ.
That Reese did a spectacular job of finding players of great character.
Knew this would happen. I get it man,OBJ has a selfish streak, we all know that. But show me where he quit on his team, gave up on a route, threatened to walk out, called a teammate a liar, or fed the media info? You don't have to like OBJ, but he is not Eli Apple.
The Collins mistake is fresh and all he's doing is validating what we all know. He is still a teammate.
Although unusual handling. This in a way is the team leadership from the players that the organization needs. The organization might actually appreciate it in an internal way. This comment tells other in the league and out that our defense is a bunch of guys that do not put up with a bunch of malcontents and soft types. Men apply, others stay the fuck away please.
This team is in desperate need of leadership which didn't come from McAdoo nor from those two clowns of owners who, in response to fan clamors to fire Reese and McAdoo, issued a statement saying they would deal with it only after the season and who then a couple of weeks later turned around and fired them.
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how many people are defending Apple and criticizing Collins. All of Collins' public comments have come in the last 3-4 weeks. Everything was kept in house when all along, the locker room knew who the anonymous quotes were coming from. I'll side with Collins everyday of the week over Apple.
Lets face it, Apple is an immature asshole who has thin skin and benefited from being surrounded by superior talent at Ohio State. Now that he is playing in a league where everyone was an All-American, he is failing miserably. Nice pick Reese. Could have had Taylor Decker, instead you took this fool. Yet another reason you are now unemployed.
I think there's some validity to what you're saying, except that Taylor Decker also played at Ohio State, so the same "superior talent" argument would be true for him as well.
Yes, thats a fair point and one I considered. However, Decker has become a solid pro, borderline pro bowler.
As for this Collins-Apple situation, I say good for Collins. Sure, by the book, he shouldn't have gone public.
But f-ck the book - Apple, who I loved at Ohio State, is a total loser and a self-centered c-ck sucker in the same mold as OBJ.
That Reese did a spectacular job of finding players of great character.
Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
And this isnt me defending Eli Apple. Im sure Apple is a problem and maybe even a cancer. But Collins is only making things worse by airing his greivemce on the radio. The Giants are a fucking dumpster fire. Unbelievable.
If he does that, and if he commits to righting his wrongs and his standing on the team, he can come back and be a part of the positive future on this team. That is not something anyone should expect, however, given how this particular individual has handled adversity to this point.
I don't fault Reese or anyone else for the pick. If you remove the personality stuff, he remains a long corner with great speed and cover ability, attributes that are rare. He is as gifted an athlete as there is on this team. As a player, he has the potential to be an All-Pro corner, still. But if he doesn't decide to make the sacrifices necessary on the field, and if he doesn't set aside his ego, and if he doesn't truly desire to be a great player, he'll never get there. I was a fan of the pick because I thought he was the best corner in the draft and the best value at the pick. As has been said by other personnel men, you don't often miss on the player, you miss on the person. That seems to be the case here...so far.
Don't mind Collins, he's earned the right to speak out. Ball is in Apple's court to accept his responsibility in this debacle and turn it around.
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Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
Don't sweat it. I have never bought this "pen is mightier than the sword" stuff.
I've been off and on at this site since Eric gave birth to BBI 20+ years ago. So someone's adulation for a conman like OBJ doesn't surprise me. He's about individual achievement on the field and hits & clicks off the field via social media. Can you honestly stay with a straight face that this clown would rather win than have gaudy stats?
Look, he's an extraordinary physical talent. I think the most gifted WR I have ever seen - including Rice. But I think he's the wrong for this team, especially if they chose a QB in the upcoming draft. If OBJ is willing to challenge Eli, can you imagine how he would run over a young QB? That would be a catastrophe...So like Apple, he need to go as well...
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In comment 13755274 bw in dc said:
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Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
Don't sweat it. I have never bought this "pen is mightier than the sword" stuff.
I've been off and on at this site since Eric gave birth to BBI 20+ years ago. So someone's adulation for a conman like OBJ doesn't surprise me. He's about individual achievement on the field and hits & clicks off the field via social media. Can you honestly stay with a straight face that this clown would rather win than have gaudy stats?
Look, he's an extraordinary physical talent. I think the most gifted WR I have ever seen - including Rice. But I think he's the wrong for this team, especially if they chose a QB in the upcoming draft. If OBJ is willing to challenge Eli, can you imagine how he would run over a young QB? That would be a catastrophe...So like Apple, he need to go as well...
Absolutely, you show me another player on this roster more sold out to win and more of a competitor, because there isn't one. There may be a player or two that matches his will to win but you won't find another player that demands more from himself, that works harder, and wants to win more than OBJ. You don't have a clue whatsoever in calling him a conman? GTFO. That's just a clown comment.
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In comment 13755274 bw in dc said:
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Dumbest fucking post of the year. "In the same mold as OBJ"? Stop watching football, stop being a fan of the Giants, you give actual fans a bad name. I wish I could go further in describing what an embarrassment and total moron this opinion makes you, because honestly, bw in dc, this post is the post of an absolute dipshit, the post of a literal fucking town idiot that everyone laughs at behind his back, but alas, the code of conduct of this fine website restricts me from truly describing what an asinine, mentally defective, imbecile that someone who would write the above truly describes. To put it very lightly.
Don't sweat it. I have never bought this "pen is mightier than the sword" stuff.
I've been off and on at this site since Eric gave birth to BBI 20+ years ago. So someone's adulation for a conman like OBJ doesn't surprise me. He's about individual achievement on the field and hits & clicks off the field via social media. Can you honestly stay with a straight face that this clown would rather win than have gaudy stats?
Look, he's an extraordinary physical talent. I think the most gifted WR I have ever seen - including Rice. But I think he's the wrong for this team, especially if they chose a QB in the upcoming draft. If OBJ is willing to challenge Eli, can you imagine how he would run over a young QB? That would be a catastrophe...So like Apple, he need to go as well...
I appreciate your point, but I don't think evidence supports your conclusion. When has OBJ challenged Eli? He's also widely liked in the locker room, he even babysits for snacks. I don't think he's all about stats either. How many times have you heard him say that this catch or that catch didn't matter cause the Giants lost the game. In fact, it's exactly what he said about The Catch against the Cowboys his rookie year. I think the young man does want to win, he just needs to work on being a professional on and off the field.
Apple is a quitter and betrayer of his teammates. OBJ is the exact opposite of that.
Look, Im all for Collins dropping the hammer on Apple in the DB meeting room. He can yell at Apple on the field or the sidelines or in practice all he likes. That could actually be considered leadership. Ill bet Carl Banks would agree to that style of leadership. But you cant throw your teammates under the bus in the media. Its got to be like pro sports 101 or the golden rule of being on a team. Nothing good will come of Collins comments. Again, Im not defending Apple who really does seem like a world class putz. But nothing good will from Collins calling for Apple to be cut in the press. Whens the last time you ever heard any NFL player make a comment like that during the season about a teammate?
Guys have a week left of this disastrous season. Try to avoid the press and if youve got a radio or tv gig, say the right things and avoid the media traps.
Do you think Collins is an idiot? .... Apple must be so out of control ... a statement like this (made public) ... probably couldn't hurt any worse?
If Apple ends up gone after this season, what a major first round bust. Brutal!
And never draft a kid who can't cook his own dinner again! That scout was right on about his lack of life skills.
...but he was wrong to have gone public with that statement about Eli Apple. That stuff needs to stay in the locker room, not on the radio!
It would have been much better if he just said Apple needs to grow up and think about his play and general behavior in the context of the entire team... and leave it at that.
I just have one request: Could someone please notify me the moment this season is officially over for the Giants.
There must be some really bad shit going on that we don't know about.
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In comment 13755182 Bernie said:
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is the structure of Apples contract. According to overthecap.com, Apples entire $15 million contract was guaranteed. Thus cutting him will cost $8.9 million in dead money and increase his 2018 cap number by $4.8 million. Good god this guy is the gift that keeps giving.
All first round contracts are guaranteed. All contracts have forfeiture clauses. While the team was handing out suspensions for leaving the field (DRC)and Showing up late from the bye (Jenkings), Apple easily could have warranted a suspension for his tweeting during the game, yelling at Frank Mara during a game earlier in the season, or contradicting the injury report. Suspending him for conduct detrimental to the team would have voided the guarantees.
You write these things as absolutes. Being a bad teammate or tweeting isnt going to void a multimillion dollar employment contract. The NFLPA is a pretty strong advocate for players and Im sure the Giants legal department provided advice and counsel. Not so simple.
It doesn't void the contract. It just voids the guarantees. The Giants would still retain his rights. If he continues to play for the Giants, then he would earn every dime that is coming to him.
Tweeting during a game is against league rules. He was inactive for that game because of being placed on the injury report on Friday. When asked why he wasn't active in his twitter tirade, he said he was "too healthy" with a shoulder shrug emoji. His communication is in direct contradiction with the team's assertion that he is injured. Playing games with the injury report can trigger the league office into investigating and fining a team. Threatening to walk out of the facility after a film session and what many believe Apple was the anonymous source in the hit piece earlier in the season, clearly demonstrates conduct detrimental to the team.
It was unprofessional when Apple when out publicly and basically called Collins a liar.
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
Always keep it in house. Airing it outside does nothing to help.
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
You are making it bigger than it is. One guy did not derail the team. One guy pissed off one player and probably his position group. Collins did not call out anyone else, but Apple. He's frustrated because Apple is not playing up to expectations and behaving like a brat.
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they are symptoms of the real problem.
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
You are making it bigger than it is. One guy did not derail the team. One guy pissed off one player and probably his position group. Collins did not call out anyone else, but Apple. He's frustrated because Apple is not playing up to expectations and behaving like a brat.
i just dont see how Collins praises DRC and Jenkins...then disses Apple.
DRC "quit" on the team and got suspended for it. Jenkins "quit" on the team and got suspended for it.
But Apple is the cancer. I guess it just depends on who you hang out with the most?!?
optimist : 9:48 am : link : reply
Background,
Father managed him, Mother took care of him..I think he was close to both..
His father was fired as his manager
his father and mother divorced
It has been suggested he is at odds with his father
His mother just underwent brain surgery.
If he isn't as crazy as a friggen bedbug right now then he's a super individual
In pure conjecture I would say he's telling the guys," Screw off, This is my problem and I don't want your pity or your help!"
I would further speculate that he needs professional help. He's getting all kinds of pressure from the press, his teammates, BBI, his family and his inner feelings.
Unfortunately the Home office of the Giants is also all screwed up so there's no one to step in and suggest professional help is the preferred avenue of help for Eli Apple.
I know if anyone came near me when I had such problems I would cause much more....At 48, my wife became a quad..I became a caretaker, and immediate mother of five great kids and a guy who had to put food on the table and spend all other time at the hospital with my only love who needed me to hold her hand.
My kids were just great and took a lot of stuff they weren't prepared for and just did it!
I was so prickly I made a porcupine feel like a warm puppy.
Damn this young kid has big time problems..Except that his family needs the money I'm surprised he hasn't come on BBI and the team paper and told all to go screw themselves and just let him work!!!
He needs professional help...WE both didn't get it but she loved me.
Eli is missing that more than anything.
In all honesty, football is a nice game ...but it is just a game!!!
He needs professional help...WE both didn't get it but she loved me.
Eli is missing that more than anything.
In all honesty, football is a nice game ...but it is just a game!!!
i dont think its that deep. he's 22. things got tough. he started acting weird. he'll be alright
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I
He needs professional help...WE both didn't get it but she loved me.
Eli is missing that more than anything.
In all honesty, football is a nice game ...but it is just a game!!!
i dont think its that deep. he's 22. things got tough. he started acting weird. he'll be alright
i take that back. maybe it is 'that' deep. (see article)
and if this is public knowledge, i'm sure Collins knew this. which makes his comments even more wack
apple - ( New Window )
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In comment 13755456 Mike from Ohio said:
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they are symptoms of the real problem.
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
You are making it bigger than it is. One guy did not derail the team. One guy pissed off one player and probably his position group. Collins did not call out anyone else, but Apple. He's frustrated because Apple is not playing up to expectations and behaving like a brat.
i just dont see how Collins praises DRC and Jenkins...then disses Apple.
DRC "quit" on the team and got suspended for it. Jenkins "quit" on the team and got suspended for it.
But Apple is the cancer. I guess it just depends on who you hang out with the most?!?
You are being loose with your definition of "quit". Jenkins was not suspended for quitting on the team. He missed the first day back after the bye without an excuse. DRC left the field at the end of the game before the game was officially over. Some might consider that quitting, but I see a player that has been hustling all over the field in meaningless games. He left out of frustration. If we want to start labeling players who quit, then let's start with JPP.
You are being loose with your definition of "quit". Jenkins was not suspended for quitting on the team. He missed the first day back after the bye without an excuse. DRC left the field at the end of the game before the game was officially over. Some might consider that quitting, but I see a player that has been hustling all over the field in meaningless games. He left out of frustration. If we want to start labeling players who quit, then let's start with JPP.
yes, i was intentionally being loose with the term quitting.
Jenkins was mad/uninspired. didnt have a desire to return to the team on time, like everyone else. he didnt consider the consequences. he put himself over the team. so to me, that's "quitting on the team"
DRC did more than leave the field early. you may wanna read up on that a little more
as far as JPP. i just don't think he has it anymore.
like i said, it depends who your friend is.
DRC, Jack and Collins are cool, so....
Its been posted. And no, not taken out of context at all.
Thread - ( New Window )
but i miss good ol fist fights. i remember dudes would have issues with each other, they'd come to blows and laugh about it a couple days later.
now days, everyone wants to beef thru social media and that never really dissolves the builtup aggression.
i wished they wouldve come to blows when they had their face to face. we wouldnt be here
I think its becoming clear that there was some disgust from the veterans towards McAdoo and how the coaches were treating Apple with preferential treatment when it came to play and accountability. All of a sudden Apple gets benched, the corners play hard again.
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of this. I don't think people fully understand just how unusual it is for a player to describe a teammate as a "cancer" regardless of how much merit it has. My suspicion (and my hope) is his words may have been taken out of context - this is not the kind of shit stirring a franchise wants their star player to be involved in.
Its been posted. And no, not taken out of context at all. Thread - ( New Window )
Thanks - I also just found this online a few moments ago. Actually, when put in context, it comes out a lot worse. The question posed to Collins was about what changes at CB he would suggest to a new GM, and without much prodding he clearly singled out Eli Apple.
To me, Apple being referred to as a cancer shouldn't even be the biggest takeaway from the interview - Landon Collins clearly does not want Eli Apple as a teammate. And the fact that he feels this emboldened to say it publicly (albeit without specifically naming him) suggests that there may be a broader consensus on this in the locker.
One way or the other this is a bad situation that will have ramifications for the team going in to next season. You have a player who was just a high draft pick who seemingly isn't well-liked on the team, and another player who is showing less and less restraint with what he says to the media. Someone needs to rein this shit in fast.
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I appreciate your point, but I don't think evidence supports your conclusion. When has OBJ challenged Eli? He's also widely liked in the locker room, he even babysits for snacks. I don't think he's all about stats either. How many times have you heard him say that this catch or that catch didn't matter cause the Giants lost the game. In fact, it's exactly what he said about The Catch against the Cowboys his rookie year. I think the young man does want to win, he just needs to work on being a professional on and off the field.
Apple is a quitter and betrayer of his teammates. OBJ is the exact opposite of that.
Yes, Apple is the ultimate football sinner - he quit on his team. I cede the point. But I'm talking about character flaws. Flaws that hurt the development of the team. And both Apple and OBJ have the character flaws that are detrimental to the team.
OBJ has ranted and raved about not getting the ball enough, in games and after games. Those acts trace to Eli as being OBJ's problem. And that is a player - a selfish player - showing up the team's trigger man. If OBJ has the audacity to do it to someone with Eli's trophy case, just what the hell will he do if the Jints bring in a QB from this draft? That is dangerous to this team's future...
Of course, unlike many OBJ fan club members, I don't buy this as an act of passion by a player desperate to win. Why should I? Because OBJ disguises his selfishness by saying how badly he wants to win? Deal lord - that is the oldest trick in the diva WR's book...
OBJ is this - a more talented MeShawn Johnson. A really good case can be made for trading his for picks and using the free agent market to sign someone like Davante Adams...
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In comment 13755321 bw in dc said:
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I appreciate your point, but I don't think evidence supports your conclusion. When has OBJ challenged Eli? He's also widely liked in the locker room, he even babysits for snacks. I don't think he's all about stats either. How many times have you heard him say that this catch or that catch didn't matter cause the Giants lost the game. In fact, it's exactly what he said about The Catch against the Cowboys his rookie year. I think the young man does want to win, he just needs to work on being a professional on and off the field.
Apple is a quitter and betrayer of his teammates. OBJ is the exact opposite of that.
Yes, Apple is the ultimate football sinner - he quit on his team. I cede the point. But I'm talking about character flaws. Flaws that hurt the development of the team. And both Apple and OBJ have the character flaws that are detrimental to the team.
OBJ has ranted and raved about not getting the ball enough, in games and after games. Those acts trace to Eli as being OBJ's problem. And that is a player - a selfish player - showing up the team's trigger man. If OBJ has the audacity to do it to someone with Eli's trophy case, just what the hell will he do if the Jints bring in a QB from this draft? That is dangerous to this team's future...
Of course, unlike many OBJ fan club members, I don't buy this as an act of passion by a player desperate to win. Why should I? Because OBJ disguises his selfishness by saying how badly he wants to win? Deal lord - that is the oldest trick in the diva WR's book...
OBJ is this - a more talented MeShawn Johnson. A really good case can be made for trading his for picks and using the free agent market to sign someone like Davante Adams...
WE ARE NOT TRADING OBJ
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In comment 13755334 Emil said:
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In comment 13755321 bw in dc said:
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Yes, Apple is the ultimate football sinner - he quit on his team. I cede the point. But I'm talking about character flaws. Flaws that hurt the development of the team. And both Apple and OBJ have the character flaws that are detrimental to the team.
OBJ has ranted and raved about not getting the ball enough, in games and after games. Those acts trace to Eli as being OBJ's problem. And that is a player - a selfish player - showing up the team's trigger man. If OBJ has the audacity to do it to someone with Eli's trophy case, just what the hell will he do if the Jints bring in a QB from this draft? That is dangerous to this team's future...
Of course, unlike many OBJ fan club members, I don't buy this as an act of passion by a player desperate to win. Why should I? Because OBJ disguises his selfishness by saying how badly he wants to win? Deal lord - that is the oldest trick in the diva WR's book...
OBJ is this - a more talented MeShawn Johnson. A really good case can be made for trading his for picks and using the free agent market to sign someone like Davante Adams...
WE ARE NOT TRADING OBJ
Don't be so sure. I think it's one of the four major issues/questions in this offseason:
What to do with Eli?
What do to with our draft pick?
What to do with Apple?
What to do with OBJ?
@TheHumble_21
I met with Coach Spags and Eli this morning and I apologized for the things I said yesterday. I never stop supporting my brother/teammate Eli and the rest of my teammates as we move forward. Just want him to know I'm always here for him 💯@EliApple13
There's a poster who gave a copy of an article of the problems that developed sin Eli A.'s close family.
There is no doubt Collins abated to help out but he's not a therapist nor does he have the advantage or disadvantage of having experienced personal tragedy.
So it's unlikely that he pursued the proper tack in dealing with Eli A.
As a consequence Eli's response to Collins' suggestion that Collins' offer to help was not acknowledged, is merely a ,"Shit if that's help, I'm in deep shit!"
AndCollins being the "wonder boy " of the defense took umbrage rather than recognizing that his help was worse that not having any help.
This is not to say Eli's response was a good one but it sure was what he felt and in his present pain, I could see him thinking, "Go away, just go away and leave me be!" and Eli wanting to be left alone.
My feeling is that Collins should be asking the front office to get Eli A. professional help instead of adding to the kids' pain!
But also remember Collins is what 22 years old? Where would he get that wisdom not to be offended by a fellow player in pain?
And where is the front office player helper outer? This kid needs a soft shouldered some body to listen not push! It would really help if that person was someone professional and with experience in these matters. Sometimes the greatest pain is not physical!
This team is in desperate need of leadership which didn't come from McAdoo nor from those two clowns of owners who, in response to fan clamors to fire Reese and McAdoo, issued a statement saying they would deal with it only after the season and who then a couple of weeks later turned around and fired them.
How does a second year corner become a cancer in a lockerroom full of veterans? How does one player derail an entire defense with his immaturity and attitude? No, the real problem with the defense - and maybe the team - is that it is so mentally and emotionally fragile that it can't absorb someone like Apple without crumbling.
No team in any major sport is made up of guys that are all high-character, team-first guys. There are bound to be immature players and guys that don't get it. Solid teams fix those guys or they get cut. They don't collapse like a house of cards.
The real question Collins should answer next is "How did the lockerroom let Apple have this kind of impact on the defense to begin with?"
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who say what should happen with Apple one way or the other. What we need is a head coach is a genuine leader and disciplinarian and who can set a whole new atmosphere in the locker room. He might cut Apple or he might rehabilitate him, but there is nothing fans can do to right this ship, and there is really no way to determine in the abstract what should be done. Great generals sometimes make an example by shooting someone and sometimes by pardoning someone.
This team is in desperate need of leadership which didn't come from McAdoo nor from those two clowns of owners who, in response to fan clamors to fire Reese and McAdoo, issued a statement saying they would deal with it only after the season and who then a couple of weeks later turned around and fired them.
The problem with Apples is not simply his attitude. It is his ability. He still needs a ton of coaching and hasn't improved at all.
last year, we were saying that Apple was a couple steps away from being really good. we were all saying "if he just learns to turn his head around, etc etc..."
i don't see how you can access his play on the field, since we've been bad at every level...
no pass rush, LBs suck...everyone has sucked
his head has not been in the game this year, and i understand why. if he fixes a few relationships in his life...the physical will follow
people are so quick to "trade" somebody. lets get this season over with. let him fix his family issues and reaccess this thing in the spring