I'm a big fan of Rosen and have him on my list as the guy we should be taking, but given the need to hit on a pick when you're picking in the top 3, can we put all our chips in on Rosen?
Obviously, no pick is a sure thing, but the surest bet seems to be Saquon Barkley. But the question then is can we afford to spend a top 3 pick on a RB, and can you afford to spend that resource when you have an aging starting QB like Manning. I like both Barkley and Rosen a lot and wouldn't mind if either were the pick, but I still lean towards drafting the QB especially one with the upside of Josh Rosen.
I guess I'm wondering if there are those who have already decided that his injury history is an insurmountable knock on him and that we need to go another way. Are you out there? Why do you say 'don't touch him'? And who do you propose we take instead?
+1.
Ironically, for me, the knee is now less concerning than the concussion. Nonetheless, the total of physical makeup is scary.
I think the Giants would still take Rosen if Cleveland takes Darnold. If not then they trade back and go OL.
Mayfield is great but really short and acts a little stupid. I actually met him briefly earlier this year and he is shorter than 6 foot in my opinion. He seemed about 5 10ish .
I read Boylharts review of Josh Allen and he compares him to John Elway. I believe he also mentions that Dan Marino had a terrible completion percentage in college. I watched a few games of his and he has talent. His team is terrible everywhere so its hard to tell what he could do.
I was shocked to see that UCLA ran a pro style offense and Rosen was adept under center
He took 3 -5 - 7 step drops and was adept at play action
Rosen was not my first choice , Darnold was , but now after comparing them it is not close
Also Allen needs a lot of work
He is not a good pocket passer
Allen is best when he breaks the pocket
And with the second pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the New York Football Giants select...Josh Rosen, Quarterback, UCLA.
Heard those too, which is why I was surprised to see the UCLA WR hand the ball to Rosen after scoring a TD tonight. So hard to know what to believe.
Sounds hard on your knees too.
And with the second pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the New York Football Giants select...Josh Rosen, Quarterback, UCLA.
Darnold plays against Ohio St this Friday.
Quote:
has character flaws. He comes across very smug, and certain reports claim everyone hates him.
Heard those too, which is why I was surprised to see the UCLA WR hand the ball to Rosen after scoring a TD tonight. So hard to know what to believe.
Totally agree, I thought the F the president shirt was stupid no matter what your opinions are, also the hot tub in his room. I dont know when there is smoke there is fire.
This.
Quote:
And given Rosen's rumored misgivings about going there, that's one more reason to choose Darnold over him. I hope Darnold lights up the scoreboard on New Year's Day and tells the world he would could consider it an honor to be selected by Cleveland with the first pick.
And with the second pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the New York Football Giants select...Josh Rosen, Quarterback, UCLA.
Darnold plays against Ohio St this Friday.
Quote:
In comment 13755329 mattyblue said:
Quote:
has character flaws. He comes across very smug, and certain reports claim everyone hates him.
Heard those too, which is why I was surprised to see the UCLA WR hand the ball to Rosen after scoring a TD tonight. So hard to know what to believe.
Totally agree, I thought the F the president shirt was stupid no matter what your opinions are, also the hot tub in his room. I dont know when there is smoke there is fire.
That would seem like the prudent position to take.
I love Rosens talent but the red flags are there and this team can't afford any more missteps. Darnold would look good in blue, but who knows if he'll come out and he may not be there at #2. Allen has so many question marks. Mayfield just didn't fit the Giants profile.
Really appreciate your takes tonight mattyblue.
Quote:
In comment 13755335 Milton said:
Quote:
And given Rosen's rumored misgivings about going there, that's one more reason to choose Darnold over him. I hope Darnold lights up the scoreboard on New Year's Day and tells the world he would could consider it an honor to be selected by Cleveland with the first pick.
And with the second pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the New York Football Giants select...Josh Rosen, Quarterback, UCLA.
Darnold plays against Ohio St this Friday.
My mistake, my mind went to Oklahoma and Baker Mayfield for some reason.
That's easy to do. Going to be a great game.
I have a feeling he is going to be really special. I am with you on Allen. If Darnold comes out I bet Cleveland takes him. Leaving Allen, Rosen, Mayfield. I also love Mayfield just think he is too short.
.
Rosen has a fragile build. If you look at QB hit stats, hes going to get hit somewhere between 3-8 times a game. Probably closer to 8 with the current state of the OL. I dont see his body holding up long enough for the set for the next 15 years club. Too many people here take Elis durability for granted and assume the next QB will enjoy the same.
I was shocked to see that UCLA ran a pro style offense and Rosen was adept under center
He took 3 -5 - 7 step drops and was adept at play action
Rosen was not my first choice , Darnold was , but now after comparing them it is not close
Also Allen needs a lot of work
He is not a good pocket passer
Allen is best when he breaks the pocket
Good post and I agree. Rosen is the superior thrower of the football. Darnold to me is third behind Rosen and Allen. Also, mason Rudolph can be a good prob similar to chad Pennington. Doesnt have the best arm. Deep ball tends to have too much air under it but under 20 yards there isnt a more accurate passer than mason in college football
I cant think of any. I was against Rosen but when I really stopped to think about it, the list of promising QBs who didnt pan out due to injury seems very small.
He does not have major character issues.
I cant think of any. I was against Rosen but when I really stopped to think about it, the list of promising QBs who didnt pan out due to injury seems very small.
Sam Bradford could have been a better QB if not for injuries. If you are talking about retired QBs, Brad Johnson and Gus Frerotte come to mind
And there will most likely be a good QB sitting there at the top of the 2nd round. Its more risky though.
Quote:
I mean good passers. Not guys like RGIII.
I cant think of any. I was against Rosen but when I really stopped to think about it, the list of promising QBs who didnt pan out due to injury seems very small.
Sam Bradford could have been a better QB if not for injuries. If you are talking about retired QBs, Brad Johnson and Gus Frerotte come to mind
None of your examples of QBs retiring early due to injury make any sense.
Bradford's career hasn't been cut short. He's still an active NFL player.
Brad Johnson played in the NFL for 15 years and retired at 40. How many QBs play after the age of 40?
And Gus Frerotte also played in the NFL for 15 years and he lasted 11 full years after volunteering for a concussion by head-butting a wall.
Quote:
In comment 13755378 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
I mean good passers. Not guys like RGIII.
I cant think of any. I was against Rosen but when I really stopped to think about it, the list of promising QBs who didnt pan out due to injury seems very small.
Sam Bradford could have been a better QB if not for injuries. If you are talking about retired QBs, Brad Johnson and Gus Frerotte come to mind
None of your examples of QBs retiring early due to injury make any sense.
Bradford's career hasn't been cut short. He's still an active NFL player.
Brad Johnson played in the NFL for 15 years and retired at 40. How many QBs play after the age of 40?
And Gus Frerotte also played in the NFL for 15 years and he lasted 11 full years after volunteering for a concussion by head-butting a wall.
All 3 had years with significant missed games due to injuries
Quote:
In comment 13755389 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13755378 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
I mean good passers. Not guys like RGIII.
I cant think of any. I was against Rosen but when I really stopped to think about it, the list of promising QBs who didnt pan out due to injury seems very small.
Sam Bradford could have been a better QB if not for injuries. If you are talking about retired QBs, Brad Johnson and Gus Frerotte come to mind
None of your examples of QBs retiring early due to injury make any sense.
Bradford's career hasn't been cut short. He's still an active NFL player.
Brad Johnson played in the NFL for 15 years and retired at 40. How many QBs play after the age of 40?
And Gus Frerotte also played in the NFL for 15 years and he lasted 11 full years after volunteering for a concussion by head-butting a wall.
All 3 had years with significant missed games due to injuries
Yes, but the question posed was "What QBs have had their careers cut short due to injury?".
You gave examples of three players, two of which had 15 year careers and one who is an active player. None of their careers have been cut short.
The argument that the draft if a crap shoot applies to any player picked not just quarterbacks.
Once he steps foot on an NFL field the defenders are faster, stronger and more relentless.
You can get a concussion by being tackled and your head bouncing off the ground. It doesn't have to be a deliberate blow to the head by a defender.
Do you see the way that Eli gets crushed with our Oline? Rosen will get murdered behind that line.
to answer somebody's question above QB's to end their careers early due to injury.. One sticks out to me that I remember stories about and use to laugh when I heard them, like Troy looking for his contacts on the field after a game and another player telling him that he doesn't wear contacts anymore, he had laysik.. but now it shows how serious it is. Troy Aikman.. I know it was 12 years.. but concussions weren't a red flag in the 90's to 2000 as it is today. his career ended because of concussion when they weren't the center of all football injuries.
I would say pass on Rosen.
The argument that the draft if a crap shoot applies to any player picked not just quarterbacks.
The draft is only a crap shoot to teams who are consistently shitty at drafting talent.
Darnold is the QB to watch for NYG, trade up to get if we must.
I would say pass on Rosen.
Aikman is just one example of a QB retiring early, so he would be the outlier, not the norm. And as you point out, Aikman lasted in the NFL for 12 years.
Are we really going to pass on Rosen because just one NFL QB had to retire after 12 years because of concussions?
(If anyone can think of other NFL QBs that had to retire early due to concussions or other injuries...please list them.)
We are going to start passing over platers due to concussions now? How severe is this one? This is all just rampant speculation
Rosen has the talent and the intelligence
The Giants should take him if they get the chance
As for those saying that Mayfield doesn't meet Giants size qualifications, those supposed size requirements were under Reese and Coughlin. Both are gone. Let's see who the new GM is before saying who is and who is not a Giants specimen.
Quote:
to answer somebody's question above QB's to end their careers early due to injury.. One sticks out to me that I remember stories about and use to laugh when I heard them, like Troy looking for his contacts on the field after a game and another player telling him that he doesn't wear contacts anymore, he had laysik.. but now it shows how serious it is. Troy Aikman.. I know it was 12 years.. but concussions weren't a red flag in the 90's to 2000 as it is today. his career ended because of concussion when they weren't the center of all football injuries.
I would say pass on Rosen.
Aikman is just one example of a QB retiring early, so he would be the outlier, not the norm. And as you point out, Aikman lasted in the NFL for 12 years.
Are we really going to pass on Rosen because just one NFL QB had to retire after 12 years because of concussions?
(If anyone can think of other NFL QBs that had to retire early due to concussions or other injuries...please list them.)
Its not just about retiring early and its not just about concussions.
I don't mean to insinuate that Rosen's injuries shouldn't be evaluated and taken seriously. But it seems as though there is this perception that he'll be knocked out of the NFL in a few years and I just don't think that happens often at the QB position, if at all.
I can see him having a fairly long career filled with games missed here and there, similar to Ben Roethlisberger and Matthew Stafford. And if he is as good as either of those players, I'll take it. That's for the Giants to figure out though.
Quote:
In comment 13755423 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
to answer somebody's question above QB's to end their careers early due to injury.. One sticks out to me that I remember stories about and use to laugh when I heard them, like Troy looking for his contacts on the field after a game and another player telling him that he doesn't wear contacts anymore, he had laysik.. but now it shows how serious it is. Troy Aikman.. I know it was 12 years.. but concussions weren't a red flag in the 90's to 2000 as it is today. his career ended because of concussion when they weren't the center of all football injuries.
I would say pass on Rosen.
Aikman is just one example of a QB retiring early, so he would be the outlier, not the norm. And as you point out, Aikman lasted in the NFL for 12 years.
Are we really going to pass on Rosen because just one NFL QB had to retire after 12 years because of concussions?
(If anyone can think of other NFL QBs that had to retire early due to concussions or other injuries...please list them.)
Its not just about retiring early and its not just about concussions.
OK. Is it about injuries? If so, the question posed by the other poster (What QBs had to retire early due to injury?) still stands.
Baker Mayfield is an asshole. No thanks. If you don't think character matters, take a look at Jay Cutler.
Yeah, but do we have a starter.
His teammates dont hate him. They stood up for him on Twitter last week when a former Giants101 writer said that
A silver lining to trading down is gaining extra picks in the early rounds. Any one choice is going to be a gamble but multiple times at the plate with .300 sluggers gives you a better chance to come away with a hit.
This is something that was brought out by an ex-coach. Is he capable of keeping his opinions and mouth shut and follow the plan of the HC. Nothing wrong with identity and opinions but we don't need another OBJ here. We would need a team psychiatrist before long to coddle these fools and their feelings. STFU and do your job then you can have an opinion. So many people in life today say so much without accomplishing a damn thing, a bunch of talking BS.
Rosen, quite the stand up guy dodging the bowl appearance. Fucking pussy.
Quote:
has character flaws. He comes across very smug, and certain reports claim everyone hates him.
This is something that was brought out by an ex-coach. Is he capable of keeping his opinions and mouth shut and follow the plan of the HC. Nothing wrong with identity and opinions but we don't need another OBJ here. We would need a team psychiatrist before long to coddle these fools and their feelings. STFU and do your job then you can have an opinion. So many people in life today say so much without accomplishing a damn thing, a bunch of talking BS.
Rosen, quite the stand up guy dodging the bowl appearance. Fucking pussy.
Yeah, like Christian McCaffery and Leonard Fournette.
If Mayfield is 5'10" then Lamar Jackson is 6 ft and Love is 5'5" as per standing next to each other at the Heisman ceremony.
Quote:
In comment 13755329 mattyblue said:
Quote:
has character flaws. He comes across very smug, and certain reports claim everyone hates him.
This is something that was brought out by an ex-coach. Is he capable of keeping his opinions and mouth shut and follow the plan of the HC. Nothing wrong with identity and opinions but we don't need another OBJ here. We would need a team psychiatrist before long to coddle these fools and their feelings. STFU and do your job then you can have an opinion. So many people in life today say so much without accomplishing a damn thing, a bunch of talking BS.
Rosen, quite the stand up guy dodging the bowl appearance. Fucking pussy.
Yeah, like Christian McCaffery and Leonard Fournette.
Yes and they are cowards too.
Quote:
.
If Mayfield is 5'10" then Lamar Jackson is 6 ft and Love is 5'5" as per standing next to each other at the Heisman ceremony.
Could have been camera angle, did one stand closer to the camera, choice of footwear (lifts), etc.
I watched the USC UCLA game last night and he some beautiful passes he also had quite a few ducks and horrendous decisions. Just like every other top QB coming out does. I also dont think he takes hits properly if you watch Eli years ago he almost rolls away from the hit as best he can. Rosen seems to just take it.
This is all just my opinion and it is meaningless in the big picture. I am not a scout. I played football in college but I have no clue how to evaluate talent.
I like Darnold, Jackson, and Allen a lot. Mason Rudolph is also a little interesting, but I just dont care for Rosen. However, I easily see why some would really like the guy.
Completely agree. I mentioned this last night in this post. I have a feeling he is gonna walk quick if he takes a beating.
I would say both Manning QB's came from a privileged position and had long NFL careers. However I would definitely try to understand his commitment to the game.
That being said. I begrudge NO player for quitting if they are concerned about their long term health.
Me too as it would give us more leverage to trade down. I just don't see Josh Rosen as anywhere close to Eli Manning when they are in their respective primes. Rosen reminds me too much of Sam Bradford.
Quote:
In comment 13755427 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13755423 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
to answer somebody's question above QB's to end their careers early due to injury.. One sticks out to me that I remember stories about and use to laugh when I heard them, like Troy looking for his contacts on the field after a game and another player telling him that he doesn't wear contacts anymore, he had laysik.. but now it shows how serious it is. Troy Aikman.. I know it was 12 years.. but concussions weren't a red flag in the 90's to 2000 as it is today. his career ended because of concussion when they weren't the center of all football injuries.
I would say pass on Rosen.
Aikman is just one example of a QB retiring early, so he would be the outlier, not the norm. And as you point out, Aikman lasted in the NFL for 12 years.
Are we really going to pass on Rosen because just one NFL QB had to retire after 12 years because of concussions?
(If anyone can think of other NFL QBs that had to retire early due to concussions or other injuries...please list them.)
Its not just about retiring early and its not just about concussions.
OK. Is it about injuries? If so, the question posed by the other poster (What QBs had to retire early due to injury?) still stands.
I dont want the future of the franchise invested in a guy whos one low hit away from an ACL injury. Or one hit on the throwing arm away from a blown out shoulder. Or one hard hit away from missing 2-4 weeks when the team is in playoff contention. That kind of shit ruins seasons at a minimum and worst case it puts the franchise in flux.
I think hes the most talented passer in the draft, but I dont want the risk. The same people banging the table for him here will be the same people crying about how unlucky the giants are with injuries when he gets hurt.
Its time to move on from Eli, whether or not he is here next year. Maybe he starts most of the season but I think the only way we dont draft a QB is that the coaches and new GM feel Webb is special and can make it as a starter. So many talented QBs coming out. We will take one, the discussion is which one.
Its also great to have Webb. Its similar to the RG3/Cousins situation years ago in Washington
Webb was one of the TOP QB's in last years draft. Highly touted, just like the new advertised QB's this year. Webb didn't even play. Its safe to say Giants are saving him. We still have to figure out Eli situation. I don't rust Eli with the WR's Now he got Engram hurt. Its unbelievable.
Heres a news flash- every player in the NFL is one hit away.
In comment 13755590 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13755436 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13755427 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 13755423 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
to answer somebody's question above QB's to end their careers early due to injury.. One sticks out to me that I remember stories about and use to laugh when I heard them, like Troy looking for his contacts on the field after a game and another player telling him that he doesn't wear contacts anymore, he had laysik.. but now it shows how serious it is. Troy Aikman.. I know it was 12 years.. but concussions weren't a red flag in the 90's to 2000 as it is today. his career ended because of concussion when they weren't the center of all football injuries.
I would say pass on Rosen.
Aikman is just one example of a QB retiring early, so he would be the outlier, not the norm. And as you point out, Aikman lasted in the NFL for 12 years.
Are we really going to pass on Rosen because just one NFL QB had to retire after 12 years because of concussions?
(If anyone can think of other NFL QBs that had to retire early due to concussions or other injuries...please list them.)
Its not just about retiring early and its not just about concussions.
OK. Is it about injuries? If so, the question posed by the other poster (What QBs had to retire early due to injury?) still stands.
I dont want the future of the franchise invested in a guy whos one low hit away from an ACL injury. Or one hit on the throwing arm away from a blown out shoulder. Or one hard hit away from missing 2-4 weeks when the team is in playoff contention. That kind of shit ruins seasons at a minimum and worst case it puts the franchise in flux.
I think hes the most talented passer in the draft, but I dont want the risk. The same people banging the table for him here will be the same people crying about how unlucky the giants are with injuries when he gets hurt.
Webb was one of the TOP QB's in last years draft. Highly touted, just like the new advertised QB's this year. Webb didn't even play. Its safe to say Giants are saving him. We still have to figure out Eli situation. I don't rust Eli with the WR's Now he got Engram hurt. Its unbelievable.
Webb was not one of the top QBs. And he was not highly touted. If he were, he would have been taken a lot higher in what was a week QB draft class.
Aikman won 3 Super Bowls, played 12 seasons and is in the Hall of Fame.
few players have had a career as great as Troy Aikman.
Yikes man.
In an article posted on Nov. 21 at draftanalyst.com, a little more than two weeks before Dorseys hiring, Tony Pauline took a look at the list of quarterbacks who will be in the discussion for the top pick. When it came to UCLAs Josh Rosen, at least two general managers reportedly said they had no interest in Rosen.
On Sunday, Pauline tweeted out that Dorsey was one of those general managers:
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
While there will be plenty of debate in the coming months, especially once everyone declares for the draft, general manager John Dorsey may have tipped his hand in November.
In an article posted on Nov. 21 at draftanalyst.com, a little more than two weeks before Dorseys hiring, Tony Pauline took a look at the list of quarterbacks who will be in the discussion for the top pick. When it came to UCLAs Josh Rosen, at least two general managers reportedly said they had no interest in Rosen.
On Sunday, Pauline tweeted out that Dorsey was one of those general managers:
Link - ( New Window )
Now I know why the Browns were in a rush to hire him. Perfect GM for them.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
I do think Rosen is 16 years younger than him, so there's that.
That said, I think it's Darnold or bust. I expect the concussions might scare teams away and Rosen might slide several spots.
Darnold is the QB to watch for NYG, trade up to get if we must.
I've felt all along that Darnold is our guy. This will sound corny, but he gives off a Frank Gifford-ish vibe (I know, USC link and all). He's the QB I want. He has "it."
Fuck me hes back....and it looks like we are taking Rosen.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
Please explain the terrible winning percentage? Really? You do realize football is a team sport where not only are you reliant on 10 other players on the field while you play, but you come off and they put another 11 on the field to play Defense and then another 11 on the field to play ST.
Two years ago Jared Goff #1 pick in the draft and people laughed saying it was a reach... This year Goff is killing it because he is super talented... He record in college 14-23... Oh and just in case you need another major example John Elway at suck ass Stanford was 15-18.
Now saying that as a Cal fan whose school was recruiting Rosen very well I will say this. The kid is probably the most entitled kid at QB we ever went after. He thinks he is gods gift to the QB position and while he has more talent than any QB coming out this year I would be worried about his personality. Make no mistake though if you draft him it is because talent wise he is the best QB but you may pass because of his attitude and injuries.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
He had Jim Mora Jr. as his coach. No D Jim. If you watched any UCLA games this season, you would have seen that they couldn't stop anyone.
OK. Is it about injuries? If so, the question posed by the other poster (What QBs had to retire early due to injury?) still stands. [/quote]
You are all missing the point. With the way concussion protocol is now handled Troy might not have lasted 12 years in today's game. This is not a Theisman leg break.. this is something that is cumulative in nature. Each one is worse than the last and if he has any in college it could give him a head start and end up shortening his career.
With Rosen, Like JonC said.. we don't have his medical records.. So its a moot point. I just hope the Giants due their due diligence.
Now saying that as a Cal fan whose school was recruiting Rosen very well I will say this. The kid is probably the most entitled kid at QB we ever went after. He thinks he is gods gift to the QB position and while he has more talent than any QB coming out this year I would be worried about his personality. Make no mistake though if you draft him it is because talent wise he is the best QB but you may pass because of his attitude and injuries.
Amtoft, as a Cal fan what were impressions of Webb as opposed to a player with Rosen's talent level?
Quote:
If you like Rosen, please explain the terrible winning percentage.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
Please explain the terrible winning percentage? Really? You do realize football is a team sport where not only are you reliant on 10 other players on the field while you play, but you come off and they put another 11 on the field to play Defense and then another 11 on the field to play ST.
Two years ago Jared Goff #1 pick in the draft and people laughed saying it was a reach... This year Goff is killing it because he is super talented... He record in college 14-23... Oh and just in case you need another major example John Elway at suck ass Stanford was 15-18.
Now saying that as a Cal fan whose school was recruiting Rosen very well I will say this. The kid is probably the most entitled kid at QB we ever went after. He thinks he is gods gift to the QB position and while he has more talent than any QB coming out this year I would be worried about his personality. Make no mistake though if you draft him it is because talent wise he is the best QB but you may pass because of his attitude and injuries.
Yes I realize that but the QB is the one position on the field that is most responsible for the outcome of the game. I would probably not even bring it up except that Rosen in many of those losses are part of the reason that UCLA lost. If I could put them all on the defense and he was losing shootouts that's one thing, but that's not the case. BTW a QB that wins is one of Bill Parcell's rules for drafting QB's so you should preach to him as well.
You can find me one-offs for anything. I'd rather look at the complete picture and I find that picture troubling when it comes to Rosen. BTW Jared Goff's numbers, especially his senior season, blows Rosen's out of the water. Goff had a better record his final season and was regarded as a player that improved every year. I can't really say the same about Rosen. Partly because he hasn't even been able to stay on the field. But if you put Goff and Rosen next to each other as prospects, Goff is totally on another tier than Rosen. If you draft Rosen, you aren't getting a player of the caliber of Jared Goff. Again, you can disregard wins in your evaluation of a QB because it is a team accomplishment. I wouldn't do that for a QB prospect coming from college, but you can feel free. It's not the whole picture, it's part of the picture, though.
Quote:
If you like Rosen, please explain the terrible winning percentage.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
He had Jim Mora Jr. as his coach. No D Jim. If you watched any UCLA games this season, you would have seen that they couldn't stop anyone.
While that's true there were also games in which he just wasn't very good, either.
due diligence on this player's medicals.
Quote:
In comment 13755650 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If you like Rosen, please explain the terrible winning percentage.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
He had Jim Mora Jr. as his coach. No D Jim. If you watched any UCLA games this season, you would have seen that they couldn't stop anyone.
While that's true there were also games in which he just wasn't very good, either.
Sounds like you're talking about Darnold.
Quote:
In comment 13755750 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13755650 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If you like Rosen, please explain the terrible winning percentage.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
He had Jim Mora Jr. as his coach. No D Jim. If you watched any UCLA games this season, you would have seen that they couldn't stop anyone.
While that's true there were also games in which he just wasn't very good, either.
Sounds like you're talking about Darnold.
Um, no. Really? He wasn't very good in the Washington State game. Other than, a pretty damn good QB that was pretty damn consistent since they made him the starter.
Quote:
Do not worry.
Fuck me he's back....and it looks like we are taking Rosen.
Slade?.....
Quote:
Now saying that as a Cal fan whose school was recruiting Rosen very well I will say this. The kid is probably the most entitled kid at QB we ever went after. He thinks he is gods gift to the QB position and while he has more talent than any QB coming out this year I would be worried about his personality. Make no mistake though if you draft him it is because talent wise he is the best QB but you may pass because of his attitude and injuries.
Amtoft, as a Cal fan what were impressions of Webb as opposed to a player with Rosen's talent level?
next to Rosen talent wise? No question Rosen has more talent. He has more talent than most every QB in this class and last years class. However he isn't Webb. Webb works his butt off to be as good as he is. He is the first one in and last one out. He has a cannon for an arm, but the offenses didn't really help him in college. He also was in a bad spot his one year at Cal because the Defense was so bad he would force balls he shouldn't have. He isn't super accurate either and touch needs a lot of work, but I like him. He also didn't have to go through progressions or read defenses as much so he needs work still. Don't think he will be a super star, but I think he could play in this league. Rosen on the other hand is a pampered spoiled kid with all the talent in the world. You put Webb's desire in Rosen and you have a franchise QB guaranteed.
Quote:
In comment 13755650 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If you like Rosen, please explain the terrible winning percentage.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
Please explain the terrible winning percentage? Really? You do realize football is a team sport where not only are you reliant on 10 other players on the field while you play, but you come off and they put another 11 on the field to play Defense and then another 11 on the field to play ST.
Two years ago Jared Goff #1 pick in the draft and people laughed saying it was a reach... This year Goff is killing it because he is super talented... He record in college 14-23... Oh and just in case you need another major example John Elway at suck ass Stanford was 15-18.
Now saying that as a Cal fan whose school was recruiting Rosen very well I will say this. The kid is probably the most entitled kid at QB we ever went after. He thinks he is gods gift to the QB position and while he has more talent than any QB coming out this year I would be worried about his personality. Make no mistake though if you draft him it is because talent wise he is the best QB but you may pass because of his attitude and injuries.
Yes I realize that but the QB is the one position on the field that is most responsible for the outcome of the game. I would probably not even bring it up except that Rosen in many of those losses are part of the reason that UCLA lost. If I could put them all on the defense and he was losing shootouts that's one thing, but that's not the case. BTW a QB that wins is one of Bill Parcell's rules for drafting QB's so you should preach to him as well.
You can find me one-offs for anything. I'd rather look at the complete picture and I find that picture troubling when it comes to Rosen. BTW Jared Goff's numbers, especially his senior season, blows Rosen's out of the water. Goff had a better record his final season and was regarded as a player that improved every year. I can't really say the same about Rosen. Partly because he hasn't even been able to stay on the field. But if you put Goff and Rosen next to each other as prospects, Goff is totally on another tier than Rosen. If you draft Rosen, you aren't getting a player of the caliber of Jared Goff. Again, you can disregard wins in your evaluation of a QB because it is a team accomplishment. I wouldn't do that for a QB prospect coming from college, but you can feel free. It's not the whole picture, it's part of the picture, though.
Of course Goff's stats are going to blow Rosen out of the water... So did Webb's and any other Sonny Dykes or Mike Leach QB team. Go Look at Luke Falks stats and you aren't hyping taking him #2. It is designed to put up big numbers offensively. And yes Bill Parcell's said that, but you aren't Bill Parcell's and neither am I. This also isn't the same era of when Bill was looking at QBs. Things are different in college football now with most teams running some sort of spread offense.
as for Cherry picking Pat Mahomes was what 13-19 career record. I mean it isn't uncommon for players to come in with bad winning records. You play for a team that doesn't have much talent in a load conference and you may not win very much. You then look at how many QBs win a ton in college and can't make it in the NFL. I hear you that winning is better than losing and big stats are better than small stats, but offense type, conference, talent, coaching, etc matter when putting up numbers and winning.
As for Goff and Rosen talent wise Rosen is better. His throwing ability I would put up someone like Aaron Rodgers coming out. He is loaded with talent. Don't get me wrong though Goff is a stud and was in college. He also works his ass off and wasn't a pampered baby. I would draft Goff over Rosen because I don't trust that Rosen could lead my franchise. However if you are talking just Talent Rosen is as good as it gets right now when it comes to throwing a football on the field in college.
Quote:
In comment 13755743 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 13755650 allstarjim said:
Quote:
If you like Rosen, please explain the terrible winning percentage.
Rosen 17-13 as starter, Darnold 20-3.
Darnold is more consistently good than on again, off again Rosen.
Jay Cutler is a good comp. He looks the part, has the arm talent and ability, but isn't a winner. Rosen is going to get some GM fired.
The top two QBs in this class are Darnold and Mayfield. Period. Don't be surprised if Rosen is the 4th or even 5th QB taken.
Please explain the terrible winning percentage? Really? You do realize football is a team sport where not only are you reliant on 10 other players on the field while you play, but you come off and they put another 11 on the field to play Defense and then another 11 on the field to play ST.
Two years ago Jared Goff #1 pick in the draft and people laughed saying it was a reach... This year Goff is killing it because he is super talented... He record in college 14-23... Oh and just in case you need another major example John Elway at suck ass Stanford was 15-18.
Now saying that as a Cal fan whose school was recruiting Rosen very well I will say this. The kid is probably the most entitled kid at QB we ever went after. He thinks he is gods gift to the QB position and while he has more talent than any QB coming out this year I would be worried about his personality. Make no mistake though if you draft him it is because talent wise he is the best QB but you may pass because of his attitude and injuries.
Yes I realize that but the QB is the one position on the field that is most responsible for the outcome of the game. I would probably not even bring it up except that Rosen in many of those losses are part of the reason that UCLA lost. If I could put them all on the defense and he was losing shootouts that's one thing, but that's not the case. BTW a QB that wins is one of Bill Parcell's rules for drafting QB's so you should preach to him as well.
You can find me one-offs for anything. I'd rather look at the complete picture and I find that picture troubling when it comes to Rosen. BTW Jared Goff's numbers, especially his senior season, blows Rosen's out of the water. Goff had a better record his final season and was regarded as a player that improved every year. I can't really say the same about Rosen. Partly because he hasn't even been able to stay on the field. But if you put Goff and Rosen next to each other as prospects, Goff is totally on another tier than Rosen. If you draft Rosen, you aren't getting a player of the caliber of Jared Goff. Again, you can disregard wins in your evaluation of a QB because it is a team accomplishment. I wouldn't do that for a QB prospect coming from college, but you can feel free. It's not the whole picture, it's part of the picture, though.
Of course Goff's stats are going to blow Rosen out of the water... So did Webb's and any other Sonny Dykes or Mike Leach QB team. Go Look at Luke Falks stats and you aren't hyping taking him #2. It is designed to put up big numbers offensively. And yes Bill Parcell's said that, but you aren't Bill Parcell's and neither am I. This also isn't the same era of when Bill was looking at QBs. Things are different in college football now with most teams running some sort of spread offense.
as for Cherry picking Pat Mahomes was what 13-19 career record. I mean it isn't uncommon for players to come in with bad winning records. You play for a team that doesn't have much talent in a load conference and you may not win very much. You then look at how many QBs win a ton in college and can't make it in the NFL. I hear you that winning is better than losing and big stats are better than small stats, but offense type, conference, talent, coaching, etc matter when putting up numbers and winning.
As for Goff and Rosen talent wise Rosen is better. His throwing ability I would put up someone like Aaron Rodgers coming out. He is loaded with talent. Don't get me wrong though Goff is a stud and was in college. He also works his ass off and wasn't a pampered baby. I would draft Goff over Rosen because I don't trust that Rosen could lead my franchise. However if you are talking just Talent Rosen is as good as it gets right now when it comes to throwing a football on the field in college.
Honestly I think you are trying to disagree with me but instead you are agreeing with me. You're saying Rosen has the arm talent but isn't a winner, he doesn't have the desire like some of the other players you mention. Ernie called it the "It" factor, and call it whatever you want but I don't believe Rosen has it. I've never said he wasn't physically talented. I know he can drop it in the bucket and make all the throws. So could Jay Cutler. I think he's more of that kind of a guy. Give me a guy that will do whatever it takes to win. A guy that just can't stand the thought of losing. That's who I want, and I don't think that's Rosen and I think you agree with me more than you disagree.
I simplified it down to his winning percentage and maybe I should've expounded upon that. I think he could've won more but he didn't. I think that's because he doesn't have that internal drive that he absolutely MUST win, the "It" factor that Ernie talked about.
Rosen is going to be a talented player that will fail in the NFL, much like Cutler.
If I'm picking this high, I'd much rather take the smart and talented player over anyone else.
Yeah, John Elway didn't have the it factor either.