I don't want to take a QBs simply because "you don't get many opportunities to draft this high." Who gives a shit how high we are drafting. The value needs to be there. I want to like Darnold but he does very little of what a pro QB needs to do. We cannot miss this pick and we cannot draft solely on potential.
I don't want to take a QBs simply because "you don't get many opportunities to draft this high." Who gives a shit how high we are drafting. The value needs to be there. I want to like Darnold but he does very little of what a pro QB needs to do. We cannot miss this pick and we cannot draft solely on potential.
This person was 21 for 31 for only 131 yards, an interception, a fumble, and a TD in his final game - the Orange Bowl.
It's Peyton Manning in 1998. He was not good. Nebraska killed UT.
My point? Be careful with these bowl games because they can be bad match-ups and the long layoffs can really have negative impacts for teams (timing, coordination, etc)...
The OLine sucks, the coaching sucks, the receivers Â
are either inexperienced or average at best. The whole team is soft and has been all season. That INT was horrendous and he needs time to grow and learn to make better decisions and protect the ball but you see flashes from him that are hard to ignore. He has toughness and his teammates love him but this SC team and coaching staff has done him no favors - he needs to get out of there. Sit behind Eli a year or two and then take the reins.
He has thrown a int in 9 out of 13 games. (3 games he has thrown 2)
He definitely needs another year in school, for playing time alone.
I don't think sitting on the bench watching another QB take snaps will speed up his development
impressed with him this season at all. He’s all hype. Rosen, Allen and even Mayfield seem like far better players to me. Darnold has potential but has looked the least impressive of that group with the best supporting cast.
Not what we need. Get off the we need a QB because we have a top 4 pick. We need a garanteed top pick playmaker! Not a project or a injury concern. DG said it. Stop the run , rush the passer and run the ball. One of those three top talents in the draft are coming to the Giants...Bitches
We need a trade partner blah blah blah but I am so open to trading down in this draft. I hope an opportunity presents itself to us. We have Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, the DBs, etc. Have a list of the top X amount of guys and acquire more picks. We can rebuild the OL with those picks. It can be done fairly quickly. Maximize our value from the second pick by trading down. Trade back up if we feel Nelson will really go.
Imo, the only thing that changes this is Mayfield kicking ass against some tough defenses.
We need a trade partner blah blah blah but I am so open to trading down in this draft. I hope an opportunity presents itself to us. We have Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, the DBs, etc. Have a list of the top X amount of guys and acquire more picks. We can rebuild the OL with those picks. It can be done fairly quickly. Maximize our value from the second pick by trading down. Trade back up if we feel Nelson will really go.
Imo, the only thing that changes this is Mayfield kicking ass against some tough defenses.
Where exactly are we going anytime soon without a QB? We can build a terrific team besides the QB, but if the QB sucks it doesn't matter.
They have to get the QB pick correct, but I have zero faith in Webb and I have no idea why anyone here does. If they don't draft a QB this year we're going to be fucked for a while most likely. Obviously we have to hit on the QB pick if we take one, but I don't see how you pass on taking one
We need a trade partner blah blah blah but I am so open to trading down in this draft. I hope an opportunity presents itself to us. We have Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, the DBs, etc. Have a list of the top X amount of guys and acquire more picks. We can rebuild the OL with those picks. It can be done fairly quickly. Maximize our value from the second pick by trading down. Trade back up if we feel Nelson will really go.
Imo, the only thing that changes this is Mayfield kicking ass against some tough defenses.
Where exactly are we going anytime soon without a QB? We can build a terrific team besides the QB, but if the QB sucks it doesn't matter.
They have to get the QB pick correct, but I have zero faith in Webb and I have no idea why anyone here does. If they don't draft a QB this year we're going to be fucked for a while most likely. Obviously we have to hit on the QB pick if we take one, but I don't see how you pass on taking one
Why does a QB have to be drafted number 2 overall? What QB js worth that? You want Darnold who looks horrendous? Yeah, the potential is there but he has so much to learn. You want a guy with a history of injuries including serious concussions? I don't. You want Jackson whose style of play almost guarantees he will be injured? You want a guy who has an alarming completion percentage who hasn't progressed like most hoped? What is so bad about not drafting a QB? Because you know what is worse? Drafting one where you have a ton of money tied up in one that busts.
from this game. Ohio State's DL is one of the best i've seen in the past several years, on par with Alabama's past DLs.
I've been in the draft a QB camp, i'm just not sure if any of these QBs is a franchise type QB. If the scouts, personnel people (hopefully not Ross and CM) and DG don't believe a franchise type QB is available they won't draft one.
RE: I don't think he is the best QB in this draft Â
I don't think people are judging him solely on this game. He has been a turnover machine all year who doesn't call plays, take snaps from under center, doesn't take drops, etc. Raw raw raw.
just for the sake of taking one. Scouts certainly believe the value is there to take a QB high in this draft. It's not a draft light on QB's. Maybe there isn't an Andrew Luck no brainer in the group, but it's a pretty damn good QB class.
If you don't have a QB in this league you are going absolutely no where. That much is clear.
regarding Darnold. But we knew this was coming to BBI during this game. If he looked great, people would be losing their minds praying that he declares.
This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
I dont think anyone on here believes that. But if Gettleman is making a decision with the #2 pick based on next year, he should be fired after 1 day on the job.
just for the sake of taking one. Scouts certainly believe the value is there to take a QB high in this draft. It's not a draft light on QB's. Maybe there isn't an Andrew Luck no brainer in the group, but it's a pretty damn good QB class.
If you don't have a QB in this league you are going absolutely no where. That much is clear.
I think Webb stacks up very well with the top QBs in this draft so call me crazy.
I don't think people are judging him solely on this game. He has been a turnover machine all year who doesn't call plays, take snaps from under center, doesn't take drops, etc. Raw raw raw.
Deshaun Watson threw 30 INT's combined his last two years at Clemson.
He's a bit raw, but there's plenty to work with. And off the field there are zero questions about him
Ok, much more advanced yet still was a turnover machine.
Mook, you can cherry pick pieces of information and examples to support your opinion. It is your opinion. I can find guys that throw a ton of interceptions and fumbles in college that fail. If Darnold comes out he will be drafted high because he has the tools. No offense, but if I am the GM I am not drafting on potential. We've been down that road too many times with draft picks. Flowers beat up on lesser opponents but it was always that he technique would get better because he is young. Well, we see it didn't. People said JPP was raw. That was bullshit. If you watch his videos he was all over the field, used his hands pretty well, was a beast against the run, and got after the QB. He was raw in the limited amount of games he played. He was raw in his pass rush moves. We see that he hasn't really developed his pass rush moves. Long story short, I dont want to draft someone that needs to learn some basic shit at the NFL level. We have had horrendous success with that.
I think we both agree that if a player grades out well enough then by all means take the QB but all of these QBs scare the shit out of me at 2 overall. This isn't like Goff and Wentz. I really liked Wentz coming out and Goff too but not as much as Wentz. I liked Derek Carr coming out. I liked Webb last year.
This is a dreadful performance by the USC line. One of the worst I've seen in a long time.
Anyone making any kind of judgement based on this game is making a mistake. He has not had any time to sit in the pocket from the first snap of the game.
The way his line played tonight, I dont think any college QB would perform well. Maybe slightly better, but not well at all. They've been manhandled.
This Ohio State line is excellent, but other teams were able to figure out a way to get them blocked at times, they didn't get them blocked for even one series tonight.
The skill positions on this USC team are no where near as talented as usual or as people think, either.
Ronald Jones is a good player but besides that i'm not impressed by any of their skill players.
It may turn out that with Trubisky, Watson, Mahommes, Kizer, and even Webb, that last drafts QB class could turn out to be better than this years. Even though it was "ranked" lower, it already has 3 QB's that are starting, and now 3 QB's that are the backup.
throwing into coverage time and again this year. Decision-making is a critical skill for a QB, and I'm really unimpressed with Darnold's abilities in that respect. I know that he's a kid, but there are some QBs who have an ability to process information and read defenses quickly, and others who never develop that skill to an acceptable level.
I'm not sold on Darnold's ability to limit mistakes. He'd be a project, imo.
Sure, there are plenty of turnover machines that have been turnover machines that have failed. I dont think he will be one. Maybe I'll be wrong.
Marty said it in another thread and I think he is right. His coaching is garbage.
I also think he has average skill position players outside of Ronald Jones, and a terrible offensive line.
He's still really raw, but I love the upside.
Urban Meyer just summed up why Darnold played like shit. "He didn't set his feet all night". I can't think of more than a few plays that he was able to set his feet. In my opinion it was the most dominating performance by a defensive line that I have seen in a long time.
Everyone raves about him as a person too, so you don't have to worry at all about him in that regard.
I'll be happy with him and I'll be happy with Rosen or Allen too, just get one of them. Rosen I am concerned about his injury history, but not much else
But his ball security and reads have a lot to be desired. He is way too lax with the ball. That was awful tonight.
That said, his OL was absolutely atrocious tonight. That was a joke. They couldn't run block or pass block to save their lives. Joe Montana wouldn't have done better tonight.
And we think the giants are ready to protect another franchise qb? No fuckin way.
I suspect the giants avoid a qb in this draft. OG or DE is my bet at this point. Unless they want to pull the trigger on Mayfield and maybe trade down after he has a good game against uga.
If the giants can nab Mayfield and get a late round pick, I'm all for it.
Sure, there are plenty of turnover machines that have been turnover machines that have failed. I dont think he will be one. Maybe I'll be wrong.
Marty said it in another thread and I think he is right. His coaching is garbage.
I also think he has average skill position players outside of Ronald Jones, and a terrible offensive line.
He's still really raw, but I love the upside.
Urban Meyer just summed up why Darnold played like shit. "He didn't set his feet all night". I can't think of more than a few plays that he was able to set his feet. In my opinion it was the most dominating performance by a defensive line that I have seen in a long time.
Everyone raves about him as a person too, so you don't have to worry at all about him in that regard.
I'll be happy with him and I'll be happy with Rosen or Allen too, just get one of them. Rosen I am concerned about his injury history, but not much else
I dont disagree with anything you said. My point of view is trying to learn all these things at the NFL level usually leads to failure. That is extremely risky. I don't want to "hope" he learns certain things. I'd like a draft pick to carry something over to tje NFL from college. To me he looks like a HS QB in his first year in college. Yes, I agree, the coaching is horrendous.
That said, his OL was absolutely atrocious tonight. That was a joke. They couldn't run block or pass block to save their lives. Joe Montana wouldn't have done better tonight.
B: That's exactly why I posted earlier he looked so much like Eli and our Oline to me.
Baker Mayfield is still the best QB I've seen this season Â
I vaguely remember 5 INT’s vs. Tenn at Three Rivers opening up his SR season.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
Hi. You aren't concerned about Rosen's two concussions and the fact he's only finished 8 games in UCLA's last 20? Also,his father is a neurosurgeon. I wonder how many more concussions or hits to the head Rosen will take before his father encourages him to quit. I'd like to see more of Allen. He has the best physical skills of all these guys.
Happy coming away with ANY of the 3? There are very few Drafts where three QB's end up with Careers worthy of the 2nd Pick--- to project a position that you'll take ANY of the 3 is just saying that YOU'RE GUESSING!!!
If they draft a guy at 2, it will be a football player that they feel has a reasonable shot to Justify the Pick---and it will probably come down to whether they feel that ONE guy answers to that.
The Will pick another QB...and it won't be a a Camp Arm---but maybe not at 2
This is a dreadful performance by the USC line. One of the worst I've seen in a long time.
Anyone making any kind of judgement based on this game is making a mistake. He has not had any time to sit in the pocket from the first snap of the game.
The way his line played tonight, I dont think any college QB would perform well. Maybe slightly better, but not well at all. They've been manhandled.
This Ohio State line is excellent, but other teams were able to figure out a way to get them blocked at times, they didn't get them blocked for even one series tonight.
The skill positions on this USC team are no where near as talented as usual or as people think, either.
Ronald Jones is a good player but besides that i'm not impressed by any of their skill players.
RE: RE: Taking a QB at 2 looks like a bad decision right now. Â
I don't want to take a QBs simply because "you don't get many opportunities to draft this high." Who gives a shit how high we are drafting. The value needs to be there. I want to like Darnold but he does very little of what a pro QB needs to do. We cannot miss this pick and we cannot draft solely on potential.
This person was 21 for 31 for only 131 yards, an interception, a fumble, and a TD in his final game - the Orange Bowl.
It's Peyton Manning in 1998. He was not good. Nebraska killed UT.
My point? Be careful with these bowl games because they can be bad match-ups and the long layoffs can really have negative impacts for teams (timing, coordination, etc)...
Too bad some of the teams have old white guys coaching them right?
Literally fucking retarded. Have some perspective FFS. There is no legitimate argument to stick with Eli for another year/two years and ignore the inevitable.
We will NEED a qb. When will there be a better chance to get one?
I don't care if it's Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield (in a trade down), or Jackson in rd 2.
Get a fucking QB in this draft within the first 2 picks.
As for me? I prefer Darnold, and I don't care about tonight. He has IT, he is mobile with a quick release while looking down field, he's only 21, and he has the maturity to handle the NYC market.
But seriously, anyone suggesting we "make a run" with Eli bc he's still a "franchise QB" is either stuck in the past, blinded by loyalty, or just has their head up their own ass.
Sure, there are plenty of turnover machines that have been turnover machines that have failed. I dont think he will be one. Maybe I'll be wrong.
Marty said it in another thread and I think he is right. His coaching is garbage.
I also think he has average skill position players outside of Ronald Jones, and a terrible offensive line.
He's still really raw, but I love the upside.
Urban Meyer just summed up why Darnold played like shit. "He didn't set his feet all night". I can't think of more than a few plays that he was able to set his feet. In my opinion it was the most dominating performance by a defensive line that I have seen in a long time.
Everyone raves about him as a person too, so you don't have to worry at all about him in that regard.
I'll be happy with him and I'll be happy with Rosen or Allen too, just get one of them. Rosen I am concerned about his injury history, but not much else
No one should have to make a laundry list of excuses for a top 2 pick. If so, he doesn’t deserve to be a top 2 pick.
Darnold is the most overrated player in this draft.
if he were coming out this year? Would any of you pick him over Darnold based on his college career? Think of what the Eagles gave up for him...
If the team feels like there is a QB with that kind of talent, you have to pick them. You don’t have to give up ANYTHING to get one (assuming both Rosen and Darnold come out which isn’t a given). I know we were bad this year but you will be hard pressed to be picking this high again anytime soon.
Darnold under pretty good pressure all night still didnt perform Â
very well. He made some very nice throws with a quick release on the move. He dropped a few balls right in the cookie jar over defenders (one or two that were superb)
That said, he also missed a few wide open guys. He has a bit of an odd throwing motion. Also doesn't seem to have his feet under him on throws but gets away with it sometimes. I also don't see a guy reading defense at the LOS or through progressions either.
3rd time I have watched him and seems like the above are the trends.
I would take my shiny #2 pick and go with Rosen if he is there...
This is probably the best place for Darnold to end up. He needs lots of coaching and Bruce Arians is a very good quarterback coach.
BTW,Darnold has still not told anyone at USC about his intentions.
not one
MookGiants : 12:06 am : link : reply
NFL team loved Webb. Not the Giants, not anyone else.
The Giants draft was based on immediate need, because they felt they were ready for a run in the post season....
We needed a TE who was a game breaker, not some undrafted stiff who could make an occasional play....but to expect EE to have a breakout season like OBj, was unrealistic....we also needed a DT, with Hankins gone....once again expecting a rookie DT to just step in and replace Hankins was unrealistic....
Webb was still available in the third round....he must have been high on the Giant's board....there had to be something they liked about him....But Mac never gave this guy a shot.....he was going to sit on the bench, and never dress....he should have had more snaps in preseason.....the time wasted on those two clowns for the #2 spot, kind of showed you what Mac was all about....so now we have a QB who potentially may be almost good as what is out there this year(there are just too many questions on this qb class), but we have no freakin' clue what his ability is, even though we have had him for a year....this whole season has been a total waste...
By B in ALB, Sonicyouth and Mook. Could not agree more. The SC offensive line was shredded worse than the Giants in any game I have seen. Darnold had very little chance to succeed last night and still threw for 356 yards and the only INT was the pick 6 early in the game. I do however ,get concerned about his ball security in the pocket. And yes, he does possess that IT factor this team needs right now. I think we would also do well to go back to that formula of bringing in an established QB guru like Deberg was to be a QB coach. It did wonders for Eli early in his career.
Very easy to see that this kid is going to be a stud in the future. I would love for Giants to pick him and let him sit for a year under Eli. If the season spirals out of control you put him in game.
and if not for his height, would be a fantastic pick at 2 or 3. They say he’s the same size as Drew Brees, but I suppose an offense would have to be tailored moreso to his skills and with DGs philosophy on “Hog Mollies”, I don’t think he’d be a good match.
Did anyone see what Mayfield did at OSU
Mayfield tore them apart and without Andrews his top receiver
His line did little to protect him as Bosa and company were applying constant pressure
But he made play after play
I am staring to like Mayfield more and more
This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I’m starting to think it isn’t. Britt is brutal.
Britt has frequently been a good poster on this site, but he's functionally turned into the Eli Manning troll. He Kool Aid man's his way into any opportunity to fight his Manning against the world war.
Defending and being right about Eli Manning means something very different to him than just shooting the shit on a message board.
One of the most physically gifted QBs in 30+ years and we somehow have a shot at him
.
I have been on his bandwagon, that would be my pick.
The Giants are NOT looking for a short term fix, they
want the next guy to be hear a decade or so.
Who knows when you are getting the No. 2 pick again?
Regarding Darnold, he faced the closest thing to a NFL defense last night (Stanford and the Oregon Ducks don't cut it), and it showed. He was harassed all night, made a few NFL caliber throws, I still see that Eli gene in there though. He would benefit from another year at USC,
Herbstreet mentioned that and I would agree.
He could work to try and improve that turnover prone aspect of his game, but I am pretty sure he will come out, hard not too.
This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I’m starting to think it isn’t. Britt is brutal.
Britt has frequently been a good poster on this site, but he's functionally turned into the Eli Manning troll. He Kool Aid man's his way into any opportunity to fight his Manning against the world war.
Defending and being right about Eli Manning means something very different to him than just shooting the shit on a message board.
It’s to the point where threads that aren’t about Eli Manning get hijacked and turn into Eli Manning pissing contests. And I’m not even talking about this. The Gettleman presser, etc.
Well, if you allow yourself to be trolled.... that's on you. Â
This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I’m starting to think it isn’t. Britt is brutal.
Britt has frequently been a good poster on this site, but he's functionally turned into the Eli Manning troll. He Kool Aid man's his way into any opportunity to fight his Manning against the world war.
Defending and being right about Eli Manning means something very different to him than just shooting the shit on a message board.
It’s to the point where threads that aren’t about Eli Manning get hijacked and turn into Eli Manning pissing contests. And I’m not even talking about this. The Gettleman presser, etc.
To be fair, there are also a few of us (me definitely included) who stoke the flames. He's a good poster otherwise -- better to ignore and move on.
considering Rosen is a medical risk for early retirement (concussions) and Darnold is going to be a major project. I'd rather drop down if possible and get some picks.
Presuming we do draft Darnold, I can see that as a future project, but I think the "We need to replace Eli next year" crew is going to be disappointed.
Darnold has had bad coaching, already may have bad habits, and needs to adjust to the pro game. That's likely going to take the better part of two years to fix, the same period that the Giants will need to rebuild.
If you want Eli replaced quickly, the only options are picking up a vet QB or hoping Webb can be ready later next year. What's more likely to happen is that Eli starts next year, Webb is #2, and Darnold gets few or no snaps, while he's trying to absorb a pro offense playbook. I doubt the new coach would do that, and I don't think Darnold has any chance of being #2 unless we dump Webb along with Eli.
Pro playbooks for QB's are no joke, by the way...I've talked to a few Arena QB's that were called up for a cup of coffee, and they were stunned back in the 90's as to how much had to be learned, vs college or lesser levels of football. Think of the difference between a high school physics textbook and a college graduate physics coursebook...and you have to be able to process this stuff in 3 seconds or less on the field!
As far as scouting evaluations of college QB's, I'm reminded of the old saying "Generals fight the last wars". You have a lot of scouts, likely in their 50'-70's, that evaluated QB's based on 3 years or so of them in a pro type offense (or at least with the QB behind center).
Even then it was a crapshoot (Warren Moon, Kurt Warner, etc), as it's hard to evaluate kids based on how they would perform when they hit their mid 20's. Warner, for example, was a late bloomer, and needed tons of work to bring out the great skills he later showed in Arena and NFLE. Now, you're asking scouts to evaluate guys who have to learn basic pro skills, along with even more complex pro offenses.
I'm not sure, as far as scouting goes, how reliable the new evaluation standards are for this. It's a good topic, and maybe the scouts that read and respond to BBI can go over this.
Literally fucking retarded. Have some perspective FFS. There is no legitimate argument to stick with Eli for another year/two years and ignore the inevitable.
We will NEED a qb. When will there be a better chance to get one?
I don't care if it's Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield (in a trade down), or Jackson in rd 2.
Get a fucking QB in this draft within the first 2 picks.
As for me? I prefer Darnold, and I don't care about tonight. He has IT, he is mobile with a quick release while looking down field, he's only 21, and he has the maturity to handle the NYC market.
But seriously, anyone suggesting we "make a run" with Eli bc he's still a "franchise QB" is either stuck in the past, blinded by loyalty, or just has their head up their own ass.
Well as there's no point in discussion let's shut down BBI and let us retards do something productive.
Any possibility Darnold stays at SC for another year? Â
The next level of Prep for all of these guys is to get with an NFL Coach on the field and in an NFL QB Room....and the $25-40,000,000 million guarantee should seal the deal.
80% of NFL QB play takes place Pre-Snap...that includes Tuesday thru Sunday Morning. The Game is the test.
These guys are cready for the nect level---all the saty in school stuff is Bullshit....a combination of pro-NCAA crap and mindless opinionating--- Sam has 26 games at SC....the college game has not much more to teach him. This is NOT a comment on Readyness to play NFL QB.
but Darnold looked like a high school kid last night against that OSU defense. Maybe he should stay in school another year. In any case, he didn't look like he'd be ready to play day one in the NFL. I also tried to focus on OSU center Billy Price and he seemed to be kicking ass all game.
on Kim Jones and Malussis say that he thinks this QB class has been over hyped from the beginning.
That said, if the Giants (or any other team) really thinks that on of them is THE ONE, you have to take him. But you should reach just to get a QB whose not worth it, like a Christian Ponder or Trubitzky.
And if one if these guys really is THE ONE, they aren't going to pass up on him because of Davis Webb fercrissakes.
on the velocity with which Darnold throws the ball. That's led to some truly ridiculous comparisons. One player I would bring up who didn't throw rockets in college was Andrew Luck. People should focus less on the play by play velocity of his passes and more on the specific throws that need velocity in order to be completed. I would recommend the 2017 Colorado game which has several throws from far hashmarks to outside the numbers on the opposite side of the field. They're GREAT throws with the necessary velocity.
Darnold has ONE issue IMO... experience. Unfortunately, that's the one things that nearly all of the best NFL QBs have in common. He can't be expected to play right away and doing so would probably be a major disservice for him. But I think he's clearly the best player in this draft if he makes himself available. I feel so strongly about this that I seriously doubt the Browns would let him get past them.
I vaguely remember 5 INT’s vs. Tenn at Three Rivers opening up his SR season.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
He smoked a lot of pot at Pitt. Not a rumor. I heard first hand from someone who went to school w here and knew him.
RE: RE: RE: Dan Marino was an INT factory at Pitt. Â
I vaguely remember 5 INT’s vs. Tenn at Three Rivers opening up his SR season.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
He smoked a lot of pot at Pitt. Not a rumor. I heard first hand from someone who went to school w here and knew him.
Well, FWIW, the Pitt staff drug tested him and several others on the team because of the rumor and Marino passed.
But the story has been around forever and it's certainly legend...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Dan Marino was an INT factory at Pitt. Â
I vaguely remember 5 INT’s vs. Tenn at Three Rivers opening up his SR season.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
He smoked a lot of pot at Pitt. Not a rumor. I heard first hand from someone who went to school w here and knew him.
Well, FWIW, the Pitt staff drug tested him and several others on the team because of the rumor and Marino passed.
But the story has been around forever and it's certainly legend...
Like I said. It was a guy who went to school w him. Honestly think that perception of a kid smoking pot back then shouldn't have even been a flag at all. But it was most likely blown out of proportion. I think he smoked pot like a LOT of College kids. Stopped. That teams used it against him was their fault
This person was 21 for 31 for only 131 yards, an interception, a fumble, and a TD in his final game - the Orange Bowl.
It's Peyton Manning in 1998. He was not good. Nebraska killed UT.
My point? Be careful with these bowl games because they can be bad match-ups and the long layoffs can really have negative impacts for teams (timing, coordination, etc)...
He definitely needs another year in school, for playing time alone.
I don't think sitting on the bench watching another QB take snaps will speed up his development
So, just to add on to what BW said about Peyton's last college game, Darnold's bowl game tonight is probably not all that meaningful.
No and Lamar Jackson is not an NFL QB. But Darnold will be.
Not in my opinion. But his oline does suck.
Imo, the only thing that changes this is Mayfield kicking ass against some tough defenses.
Imo, the only thing that changes this is Mayfield kicking ass against some tough defenses.
Where exactly are we going anytime soon without a QB? We can build a terrific team besides the QB, but if the QB sucks it doesn't matter.
They have to get the QB pick correct, but I have zero faith in Webb and I have no idea why anyone here does. If they don't draft a QB this year we're going to be fucked for a while most likely. Obviously we have to hit on the QB pick if we take one, but I don't see how you pass on taking one
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We need a trade partner blah blah blah but I am so open to trading down in this draft. I hope an opportunity presents itself to us. We have Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, the DBs, etc. Have a list of the top X amount of guys and acquire more picks. We can rebuild the OL with those picks. It can be done fairly quickly. Maximize our value from the second pick by trading down. Trade back up if we feel Nelson will really go.
Imo, the only thing that changes this is Mayfield kicking ass against some tough defenses.
Where exactly are we going anytime soon without a QB? We can build a terrific team besides the QB, but if the QB sucks it doesn't matter.
They have to get the QB pick correct, but I have zero faith in Webb and I have no idea why anyone here does. If they don't draft a QB this year we're going to be fucked for a while most likely. Obviously we have to hit on the QB pick if we take one, but I don't see how you pass on taking one
Why does a QB have to be drafted number 2 overall? What QB js worth that? You want Darnold who looks horrendous? Yeah, the potential is there but he has so much to learn. You want a guy with a history of injuries including serious concussions? I don't. You want Jackson whose style of play almost guarantees he will be injured? You want a guy who has an alarming completion percentage who hasn't progressed like most hoped? What is so bad about not drafting a QB? Because you know what is worse? Drafting one where you have a ton of money tied up in one that busts.
I've been in the draft a QB camp, i'm just not sure if any of these QBs is a franchise type QB. If the scouts, personnel people (hopefully not Ross and CM) and DG don't believe a franchise type QB is available they won't draft one.
I don't think people are judging him solely on this game. He has been a turnover machine all year who doesn't call plays, take snaps from under center, doesn't take drops, etc. Raw raw raw.
If you don't have a QB in this league you are going absolutely no where. That much is clear.
I dont think anyone on here believes that. But if Gettleman is making a decision with the #2 pick based on next year, he should be fired after 1 day on the job.
If you don't have a QB in this league you are going absolutely no where. That much is clear.
I think Webb stacks up very well with the top QBs in this draft so call me crazy.
He looks like Eli. Not a knock on Eli, just his shit Oline.
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But judging him on one game is absurd
I don't think people are judging him solely on this game. He has been a turnover machine all year who doesn't call plays, take snaps from under center, doesn't take drops, etc. Raw raw raw.
Deshaun Watson threw 30 INT's combined his last two years at Clemson.
He's a bit raw, but there's plenty to work with. And off the field there are zero questions about him
I think Webb stacks up very well with the top QBs in this draft so call me crazy.
It's not crazy. Prove to me Darnell is better than Webb (college games only).
Ok, much more advanced yet still was a turnover machine.
Last year was not highly regarded as a QB class. And Webb still went in the 3rd round.
Nobody is saying Darnold is coming in Day 1 and starting. Are we drafting just for 2018?
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Watson big question was his arm strength.
Ok, much more advanced yet still was a turnover machine.
Mook, you can cherry pick pieces of information and examples to support your opinion. It is your opinion. I can find guys that throw a ton of interceptions and fumbles in college that fail. If Darnold comes out he will be drafted high because he has the tools. No offense, but if I am the GM I am not drafting on potential. We've been down that road too many times with draft picks. Flowers beat up on lesser opponents but it was always that he technique would get better because he is young. Well, we see it didn't. People said JPP was raw. That was bullshit. If you watch his videos he was all over the field, used his hands pretty well, was a beast against the run, and got after the QB. He was raw in the limited amount of games he played. He was raw in his pass rush moves. We see that he hasn't really developed his pass rush moves. Long story short, I dont want to draft someone that needs to learn some basic shit at the NFL level. We have had horrendous success with that.
I think we both agree that if a player grades out well enough then by all means take the QB but all of these QBs scare the shit out of me at 2 overall. This isn't like Goff and Wentz. I really liked Wentz coming out and Goff too but not as much as Wentz. I liked Derek Carr coming out. I liked Webb last year.
This is a dreadful performance by the USC line. One of the worst I've seen in a long time.
Anyone making any kind of judgement based on this game is making a mistake. He has not had any time to sit in the pocket from the first snap of the game.
The way his line played tonight, I dont think any college QB would perform well. Maybe slightly better, but not well at all. They've been manhandled.
This Ohio State line is excellent, but other teams were able to figure out a way to get them blocked at times, they didn't get them blocked for even one series tonight.
The skill positions on this USC team are no where near as talented as usual or as people think, either.
Ronald Jones is a good player but besides that i'm not impressed by any of their skill players.
If you're looking for guarantees in the draft, you're in the wrong line of work.
I'm not sold on Darnold's ability to limit mistakes. He'd be a project, imo.
Sure, there are plenty of turnover machines that have been turnover machines that have failed. I dont think he will be one. Maybe I'll be wrong.
Marty said it in another thread and I think he is right. His coaching is garbage.
I also think he has average skill position players outside of Ronald Jones, and a terrible offensive line.
He's still really raw, but I love the upside.
Urban Meyer just summed up why Darnold played like shit. "He didn't set his feet all night". I can't think of more than a few plays that he was able to set his feet. In my opinion it was the most dominating performance by a defensive line that I have seen in a long time.
Everyone raves about him as a person too, so you don't have to worry at all about him in that regard.
I'll be happy with him and I'll be happy with Rosen or Allen too, just get one of them. Rosen I am concerned about his injury history, but not much else
But his ball security and reads have a lot to be desired. He is way too lax with the ball. That was awful tonight.
That said, his OL was absolutely atrocious tonight. That was a joke. They couldn't run block or pass block to save their lives. Joe Montana wouldn't have done better tonight.
And we think the giants are ready to protect another franchise qb? No fuckin way.
I suspect the giants avoid a qb in this draft. OG or DE is my bet at this point. Unless they want to pull the trigger on Mayfield and maybe trade down after he has a good game against uga.
If the giants can nab Mayfield and get a late round pick, I'm all for it.
Amazing contrast between this outcome for Darnold and how he played last year versus Penn State in the Rose Bowl.
Sure, there are plenty of turnover machines that have been turnover machines that have failed. I dont think he will be one. Maybe I'll be wrong.
Marty said it in another thread and I think he is right. His coaching is garbage.
I also think he has average skill position players outside of Ronald Jones, and a terrible offensive line.
He's still really raw, but I love the upside.
Urban Meyer just summed up why Darnold played like shit. "He didn't set his feet all night". I can't think of more than a few plays that he was able to set his feet. In my opinion it was the most dominating performance by a defensive line that I have seen in a long time.
Everyone raves about him as a person too, so you don't have to worry at all about him in that regard.
I'll be happy with him and I'll be happy with Rosen or Allen too, just get one of them. Rosen I am concerned about his injury history, but not much else
I dont disagree with anything you said. My point of view is trying to learn all these things at the NFL level usually leads to failure. That is extremely risky. I don't want to "hope" he learns certain things. I'd like a draft pick to carry something over to tje NFL from college. To me he looks like a HS QB in his first year in college. Yes, I agree, the coaching is horrendous.
B: That's exactly why I posted earlier he looked so much like Eli and our Oline to me.
To my eyes (untrained) Rosen looks the best but his injury concerns are a HUGE red flag. I agree. Mayfield or Jackson.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
If they draft a guy at 2, it will be a football player that they feel has a reasonable shot to Justify the Pick---and it will probably come down to whether they feel that ONE guy answers to that.
The Will pick another QB...and it won't be a a Camp Arm---but maybe not at 2
In comment 13760543 MookGiants said:
This is a dreadful performance by the USC line. One of the worst I've seen in a long time.
Anyone making any kind of judgement based on this game is making a mistake. He has not had any time to sit in the pocket from the first snap of the game.
The way his line played tonight, I dont think any college QB would perform well. Maybe slightly better, but not well at all. They've been manhandled.
This Ohio State line is excellent, but other teams were able to figure out a way to get them blocked at times, they didn't get them blocked for even one series tonight.
The skill positions on this USC team are no where near as talented as usual or as people think, either.
Ronald Jones is a good player but besides that i'm not impressed by any of their skill players.
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I don't want to take a QBs simply because "you don't get many opportunities to draft this high." Who gives a shit how high we are drafting. The value needs to be there. I want to like Darnold but he does very little of what a pro QB needs to do. We cannot miss this pick and we cannot draft solely on potential.
This person was 21 for 31 for only 131 yards, an interception, a fumble, and a TD in his final game - the Orange Bowl.
It's Peyton Manning in 1998. He was not good. Nebraska killed UT.
My point? Be careful with these bowl games because they can be bad match-ups and the long layoffs can really have negative impacts for teams (timing, coordination, etc)...
Too bad some of the teams have old white guys coaching them right?
Literally fucking retarded. Have some perspective FFS. There is no legitimate argument to stick with Eli for another year/two years and ignore the inevitable.
We will NEED a qb. When will there be a better chance to get one?
I don't care if it's Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield (in a trade down), or Jackson in rd 2.
Get a fucking QB in this draft within the first 2 picks.
As for me? I prefer Darnold, and I don't care about tonight. He has IT, he is mobile with a quick release while looking down field, he's only 21, and he has the maturity to handle the NYC market.
But seriously, anyone suggesting we "make a run" with Eli bc he's still a "franchise QB" is either stuck in the past, blinded by loyalty, or just has their head up their own ass.
Sure, there are plenty of turnover machines that have been turnover machines that have failed. I dont think he will be one. Maybe I'll be wrong.
Marty said it in another thread and I think he is right. His coaching is garbage.
I also think he has average skill position players outside of Ronald Jones, and a terrible offensive line.
He's still really raw, but I love the upside.
Urban Meyer just summed up why Darnold played like shit. "He didn't set his feet all night". I can't think of more than a few plays that he was able to set his feet. In my opinion it was the most dominating performance by a defensive line that I have seen in a long time.
Everyone raves about him as a person too, so you don't have to worry at all about him in that regard.
I'll be happy with him and I'll be happy with Rosen or Allen too, just get one of them. Rosen I am concerned about his injury history, but not much else
No one should have to make a laundry list of excuses for a top 2 pick. If so, he doesn’t deserve to be a top 2 pick.
Darnold is the most overrated player in this draft.
If the team feels like there is a QB with that kind of talent, you have to pick them. You don’t have to give up ANYTHING to get one (assuming both Rosen and Darnold come out which isn’t a given). I know we were bad this year but you will be hard pressed to be picking this high again anytime soon.
That said, he also missed a few wide open guys. He has a bit of an odd throwing motion. Also doesn't seem to have his feet under him on throws but gets away with it sometimes. I also don't see a guy reading defense at the LOS or through progressions either.
3rd time I have watched him and seems like the above are the trends.
I would take my shiny #2 pick and go with Rosen if he is there...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
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This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I would be fine with Darnold over Manning next year. They both would throw for 290 yards a TD and 2 INTs but at least Darnold would be learning...
BTW,Darnold has still not told anyone at USC about his intentions.
MookGiants : 12:06 am : link : reply
NFL team loved Webb. Not the Giants, not anyone else.
The Giants draft was based on immediate need, because they felt they were ready for a run in the post season....
We needed a TE who was a game breaker, not some undrafted stiff who could make an occasional play....but to expect EE to have a breakout season like OBj, was unrealistic....we also needed a DT, with Hankins gone....once again expecting a rookie DT to just step in and replace Hankins was unrealistic....
Webb was still available in the third round....he must have been high on the Giant's board....there had to be something they liked about him....But Mac never gave this guy a shot.....he was going to sit on the bench, and never dress....he should have had more snaps in preseason.....the time wasted on those two clowns for the #2 spot, kind of showed you what Mac was all about....so now we have a QB who potentially may be almost good as what is out there this year(there are just too many questions on this qb class), but we have no freakin' clue what his ability is, even though we have had him for a year....this whole season has been a total waste...
Mayfield tore them apart and without Andrews his top receiver
His line did little to protect him as Bosa and company were applying constant pressure
But he made play after play
I am staring to like Mayfield more and more
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This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I’m starting to think it isn’t. Britt is brutal.
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In comment 13760526 Britt in VA said:
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This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I’m starting to think it isn’t. Britt is brutal.
Britt has frequently been a good poster on this site, but he's functionally turned into the Eli Manning troll. He Kool Aid man's his way into any opportunity to fight his Manning against the world war.
Defending and being right about Eli Manning means something very different to him than just shooting the shit on a message board.
I have been on his bandwagon, that would be my pick.
The Giants are NOT looking for a short term fix, they
want the next guy to be hear a decade or so.
Who knows when you are getting the No. 2 pick again?
Regarding Darnold, he faced the closest thing to a NFL defense last night (Stanford and the Oregon Ducks don't cut it), and it showed. He was harassed all night, made a few NFL caliber throws, I still see that Eli gene in there though. He would benefit from another year at USC,
Herbstreet mentioned that and I would agree.
He could work to try and improve that turnover prone aspect of his game, but I am pretty sure he will come out, hard not too.
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In comment 13760626 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13760526 Britt in VA said:
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This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I’m starting to think it isn’t. Britt is brutal.
Britt has frequently been a good poster on this site, but he's functionally turned into the Eli Manning troll. He Kool Aid man's his way into any opportunity to fight his Manning against the world war.
Defending and being right about Eli Manning means something very different to him than just shooting the shit on a message board.
It’s to the point where threads that aren’t about Eli Manning get hijacked and turn into Eli Manning pissing contests. And I’m not even talking about this. The Gettleman presser, etc.
I have admittedly gone over the top, but the site needs a little yin to it's yang, sometimes.
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In comment 13760757 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 13760626 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13760526 Britt in VA said:
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This guy is a better option than Eli Manning next year...
Is it possible for any discussion to exist without you injecting your hero worship into it?
I’m starting to think it isn’t. Britt is brutal.
Britt has frequently been a good poster on this site, but he's functionally turned into the Eli Manning troll. He Kool Aid man's his way into any opportunity to fight his Manning against the world war.
Defending and being right about Eli Manning means something very different to him than just shooting the shit on a message board.
It’s to the point where threads that aren’t about Eli Manning get hijacked and turn into Eli Manning pissing contests. And I’m not even talking about this. The Gettleman presser, etc.
To be fair, there are also a few of us (me definitely included) who stoke the flames. He's a good poster otherwise -- better to ignore and move on.
Presuming we do draft Darnold, I can see that as a future project, but I think the "We need to replace Eli next year" crew is going to be disappointed.
Darnold has had bad coaching, already may have bad habits, and needs to adjust to the pro game. That's likely going to take the better part of two years to fix, the same period that the Giants will need to rebuild.
If you want Eli replaced quickly, the only options are picking up a vet QB or hoping Webb can be ready later next year. What's more likely to happen is that Eli starts next year, Webb is #2, and Darnold gets few or no snaps, while he's trying to absorb a pro offense playbook. I doubt the new coach would do that, and I don't think Darnold has any chance of being #2 unless we dump Webb along with Eli.
Pro playbooks for QB's are no joke, by the way...I've talked to a few Arena QB's that were called up for a cup of coffee, and they were stunned back in the 90's as to how much had to be learned, vs college or lesser levels of football. Think of the difference between a high school physics textbook and a college graduate physics coursebook...and you have to be able to process this stuff in 3 seconds or less on the field!
As far as scouting evaluations of college QB's, I'm reminded of the old saying "Generals fight the last wars". You have a lot of scouts, likely in their 50'-70's, that evaluated QB's based on 3 years or so of them in a pro type offense (or at least with the QB behind center).
Even then it was a crapshoot (Warren Moon, Kurt Warner, etc), as it's hard to evaluate kids based on how they would perform when they hit their mid 20's. Warner, for example, was a late bloomer, and needed tons of work to bring out the great skills he later showed in Arena and NFLE. Now, you're asking scouts to evaluate guys who have to learn basic pro skills, along with even more complex pro offenses.
I'm not sure, as far as scouting goes, how reliable the new evaluation standards are for this. It's a good topic, and maybe the scouts that read and respond to BBI can go over this.
far from him being like leftwich
Gun to my head, Darnold had the best career as a Giant. I have full faith the GM will fix the offensive line.
If Darnold sits a year and inherits a team with a functional line, OBJ, Sterling Shepard, Engram, Gallman etc. He will succeed.
Question is, does the apply to any of the 4-5 QBs?
Literally fucking retarded. Have some perspective FFS. There is no legitimate argument to stick with Eli for another year/two years and ignore the inevitable.
We will NEED a qb. When will there be a better chance to get one?
I don't care if it's Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield (in a trade down), or Jackson in rd 2.
Get a fucking QB in this draft within the first 2 picks.
As for me? I prefer Darnold, and I don't care about tonight. He has IT, he is mobile with a quick release while looking down field, he's only 21, and he has the maturity to handle the NYC market.
But seriously, anyone suggesting we "make a run" with Eli bc he's still a "franchise QB" is either stuck in the past, blinded by loyalty, or just has their head up their own ass.
Well as there's no point in discussion let's shut down BBI and let us retards do something productive.
80% of NFL QB play takes place Pre-Snap...that includes Tuesday thru Sunday Morning. The Game is the test.
These guys are cready for the nect level---all the saty in school stuff is Bullshit....a combination of pro-NCAA crap and mindless opinionating--- Sam has 26 games at SC....the college game has not much more to teach him. This is NOT a comment on Readyness to play NFL QB.
Yes. Probably 50-50.
Where is that thread?
Seroiusly, what has happened to USC recruiting?
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far from him being like leftwich
I don't want to speak for Terps, but I assume he's referencing Darnold's long windup, which is actually somewhat reminiscent of Leftwich.
That said, if the Giants (or any other team) really thinks that on of them is THE ONE, you have to take him. But you should reach just to get a QB whose not worth it, like a Christian Ponder or Trubitzky.
And if one if these guys really is THE ONE, they aren't going to pass up on him because of Davis Webb fercrissakes.
Decides to stay another year.
Darnold has ONE issue IMO... experience. Unfortunately, that's the one things that nearly all of the best NFL QBs have in common. He can't be expected to play right away and doing so would probably be a major disservice for him. But I think he's clearly the best player in this draft if he makes himself available. I feel so strongly about this that I seriously doubt the Browns would let him get past them.
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I vaguely remember 5 INT’s vs. Tenn at Three Rivers opening up his SR season.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
He smoked a lot of pot at Pitt. Not a rumor. I heard first hand from someone who went to school w here and knew him.
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In comment 13760557 Boy Cord said:
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I vaguely remember 5 INT’s vs. Tenn at Three Rivers opening up his SR season.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
He smoked a lot of pot at Pitt. Not a rumor. I heard first hand from someone who went to school w here and knew him.
Well, FWIW, the Pitt staff drug tested him and several others on the team because of the rumor and Marino passed.
But the story has been around forever and it's certainly legend...
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In comment 13760572 bw in dc said:
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In comment 13760557 Boy Cord said:
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I vaguely remember 5 INT’s vs. Tenn at Three Rivers opening up his SR season.
Right. Marino had 23 INTs in both his Jr and Sr years. But he only had 17 TDs his Sr year. That, plus the bogus drug rumors, really spoiled his draft status.
He smoked a lot of pot at Pitt. Not a rumor. I heard first hand from someone who went to school w here and knew him.
Well, FWIW, the Pitt staff drug tested him and several others on the team because of the rumor and Marino passed.
But the story has been around forever and it's certainly legend...
Like I said. It was a guy who went to school w him. Honestly think that perception of a kid smoking pot back then shouldn't have even been a flag at all. But it was most likely blown out of proportion. I think he smoked pot like a LOT of College kids. Stopped. That teams used it against him was their fault