Teams Wanting Giants 2nd Overall Pick - Very High Price

Their entire draft lol. It never should happen. Lesson learned from Ricky Williams and the saints.

Sorry for the confusion. I’m showing the value for a entire draft pick first in all rounds (4041), second in all rounds (3610), third in all rounds (3190) etc, not by 2018 team totals.

You’re right that Cleveland has way more than 4041 “points” in 2018. For the fourth overall, I’m showing the value of the entire Texans draft (2769 pts), which they don’t have since Cleveland has their 2018 first pick. And Cleveland doesn’t have the Texans entire 2018 draft. Apologies.

gave up a #1 and a #3 in 2004, and a #1 and a #5 in 2005 to move from #4 to #1 to get Eli. Why would Denver give up more than that to go from #5 to #2, especially since this year's QBs aren't consider as good as Eli, Ben, and Rivers?

If the Giants don't want a QB, then I'd strongly consider taking a #2 this year and a #1 next year to move back to #5. Get greedy, and get nothing. Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. A high #2 and a #1 next year is a lot to drop back three places.

In comment 13767531 Default said:

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and have averaged 1.333 wins a year in the past three years. Stick with #2 and draft a franchise player, don't fuck around and draft another Eli Apple.

Stupid example... The Browns have been poorly run, regardless of the staying put or trading down. The example is a poor one..

In comment 13767537 Pep22 said:

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say its NYJ jumping Denver for a QB. Give them the 2 overall = Rosen or Darnold. We get: 6 overall - Quinton Nelson 38 overall - Connor Williams next year's 1st rounder next years 4th rounder to go along with our 2nd round - DE Harold Landry 3rd round - DT Derrick Nnadi 4th round - S Armani Watts

Yes please

Atlanta's trade to draft Julio Jones as an example of how it's not impossible to find a trade partner willing to pay a huge price, but it's also a cautionary tale: Atlanta got one of the best offensive players in the league, and Cleveland turned all of the picks they received into a bunch of irrelevant players.

And the team takes one of the top QBs and that QB becomes a franchise QB that wins a Super Bowl or two, how would you feel?

In comment 13767524 RobCarpenter said:

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You take him. Not a fan of trading down from the #2 overall pick.

I assume you mean if the Giants think so. I agree, but only if he is #1 by a wide margin and not in a group of three or four that are fairly equivalent.

If the latter were the case, I would trade with Denver etc and still have a shot at one of my guys PLUS others.

They traded players and the Chargers had a player that said he wouldn’t play for them.

Using the 2018 chart, the Giants gave up a 2004 1st rounder and fourth overall (1800), a 2004 3rd rounder (250), a 2005 1st rounder (“discounted” to 540) and a 2005 5th rounder (discounted to a 6th, 26 pts) for a total of 2616 points to get a 1st overall (3000 pts).

I think the 2004 Eli trade is somewhat unique.

you can argue that a more competent team wouldn't have drafted the same shitty players as Cleveland, but you don't know. The later you pick, the more you enter into a sea of uncertainty and rushed decisions as other teams unexpectedly pick the players you want ahead of you.

In comment 13767559 santacruzom said:

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Atlanta's trade to draft Julio Jones as an example of how it's not impossible to find a trade partner willing to pay a huge price, but it's also a cautionary tale: Atlanta got one of the best offensive players in the league, and Cleveland turned all of the picks they received into a bunch of irrelevant players.

The cautionary tale there is to not have a shitty front office that will waste the picks. Here were some guys available with the picks Cleveland got for Julio Jones in 2011 in 2012:

2011
Round 1, pick 21 (selected NT Phil Taylor): Cameron Jordan, Jimmy Smith, Mark Ingram, Cameron Heyward, Kyle Rudolph
Round 2, pick 59 (WR Greg Little): Randall Cobb, Justin Houston, DeMarco Murray, KJ Wright
Round 4, pick 124 (RB Owen Marecic): Bilal Powell, Julius Thomas, Buster Skrine, Marcus Cannon, Dion Lewis, Richard Sherman, Byron Maxwell, Dwayne Harris, Charles Clay, Malcolm Smith

2012
Round 1, picks 3 & 22 (RB Trent Richardson & QB Brandon Weeden): Rieley Reiff, David DeCastro, Donta Hightower, Harrison Smith, Cordy Glenn, Bobby Wagner, Zach Brown, Levonte David, Vinny Curry, Kelechi Osemele, Russell Wilson...and many, many more.

Cleveland received a gold mine for Jones...they just squandered it.

Would you trade Julio Jones for Cameron Jordan, Justin Houston, Richard Sherman, Kelechi Osemele, and Russell Wilson? I would. Cleveland's sin wasn't making the trade, it was having a horrific scouting and personnel department as well as a complete inability to develop young players.

If the Giants can trade down for a haul similar to what the Browns got for the Julio pick, they should do it and not think twice.

Most have bombed out or had career ending injuries early in their careers.

In comment 13767593 Go Terps said:

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Would you trade Julio Jones for Cameron Jordan, Justin Houston, Richard Sherman, Kelechi Osemele, and Russell Wilson? I would. Cleveland's sin wasn't making the trade, it was having a horrific scouting and personnel department as well as a complete inability to develop young players.

Of course, but in real time without the benefit of hindsight, no team is likely to take the ideal player with every earned pick. Sherman was a 6th rounder, Osemele was at the end of the 2nd... I mean, if your question is whether I'd rather accumulate a bunch of picks with the assurance that they'd be used as ideally as possible, my answer would be yes.

5th round pick.

they traded up to get Kizer last year in the 1st. Are they giving up on him already for another shiny new toy?

Barkley is a no Larry Johnson (who was pretty dam good) or Kijana Carter. This guy is a game breaker, not a plower.
If they could get a boat load of picks like that for moving down to 5th they absolutely do it.
I think there will be a lot of bidding for the Giants pick. It would be nice to see, for a change, the Giants trading back for more picks this year and being one of those teams with 2 first round picks next year.
They need players. If they are not 100% sold on a QB, which is probably decided right now, they need to trade back and bring in as many young athletes to compete for spots on this team.

(Giants have no 7th round pick due to Ross Cockrell trade?) is a huge opportunity for the Giants.

Unless the 2nd overall is a can’t miss pick (very few of those, Barkley and Nelson seem the best bets), getting more picks increases the chances of getting multiple quality starters on the OL: a desperate need with a 37 year old QB.

Here was the price for the Bears to move up from 3 to 2. I would imagine if anyone calls trying to move up from anywhere in the top 10 the price will start here and go up depending on how many spots we'd be moving down.

Bears receive:
» 2017 first-round pick (No. 2): Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina

49ers receive:
» 2017 first-round pick (No. 3): Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford
» 2017 third-round pick (No. 67) -- traded to Saints
» 2017 fourth-round pick (No. 111) -- traded to Seahawks
» 2018 third-round pick

Obviously you are unlikely to hit on every pick, but something close to that can happen. After the picks I listed above Seattle built what should have been a back to back champ: Wright, Sherman, Maxwell, Smith, Wagner, Wilson, Jeremy Lane: all selected by the same team after the picks Cleveland received.

Outside of Lamar Jackson I'm not a huge fan of anyone in this draft. If the "blue chippers" are the likes of Rosen, Darnold, and Barkley...I'd rather trade down.

and someone else does, you absolutely trade back. Especially if you're just dropping to #5/6 (Den/NYJ). With QBs then going #1-2, you're then guaranteed to have at least 2 of these players on the board at #5:

Nelson
Barkley
Chubb
Fitzpatrick

You can likely find a publication that has any of those 4 as the top overall player.

In comment 13767562 EddieNYG said:

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And the team takes one of the top QBs and that QB becomes a franchise QB that wins a Super Bowl or two, how would you feel?

Like a Chargers fan?

In comment 13767625 Trainmaster said:

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(Giants have no 7th round pick due to Ross Cockrell trade?) is a huge opportunity for the Giants. Unless the 2nd overall is a can’t miss pick (very few of those, Barkley and Nelson seem the best bets), getting more picks increases the chances of getting multiple quality starters on the OL: a desperate need with a 37 year old QB.

I'm just not so sure about that, since there really aren't too many examples of teams who netted a bounty of picks AND actually used them wisely enough to make a notable impact on the team.

On the one hand, you'd certainly think that having more picks to use is somewhat like having more lottery tickets -- the more you have, the more your chances of winning increase. But for whatever reason it hasn't often panned out that way.

In comment 13767597 Ivan15 said:

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Most have bombed out or had career ending injuries early in their careers.

Who cares? What does that have to do with Barkley? I never understood this argument

you mentioned that you were not sold on any of these QBs and you were concerned about the bust risk.

Just think about this for a second....
There was uncertainty about the QBs in 2004 as well. We did not know for sure that Eli was not going to be a bust. However, we made the trade and gave up A LOT to get him.

In this scenario, we are not giving up anything. I think worth the risk. Especially when you consider the fact that WHEN there is a QB that comes up in the next couple of years who you THINK has a lower bust potential... there is no way we will be able to draft him.

I don't see any of the QBs in this draft being on the level of Manning, Rothliesberger, or Rivers.

Using that draft as a template for this one is dangerous thinking.

In comment 13767597 Ivan15 said:

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Most have bombed out or had career ending injuries early in their careers.

Larry Johnson was a beast before he hurt his foot and then became a massive distraction and his career spiraled out of control.

A guy getting hurt once he's in the pros should have absolutely no bearing on the conversation. It's meaningless.

I’m in the camp that feels Eli is still an asset that can get the Giants another SB in another 2 to 3 years. Add a 2nd and 3rd round OL and a top OL vet FA as well a stud RB in Barkley and the Giants should be very competitive with the return of Beckham plus Shepard and Engram. An hopefully a “non dumbass” for a Head Coach. Don’t want a rookie QB at the second overall pick.

Is just a starting point. Demand ultimately will determine how much a team would have to overpay to move into the slot.

In comment 13767657 EricJ said:

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Especially when you consider the fact that WHEN there is a QB that comes up in the next couple of years who you THINK has a lower bust potential... there is no way we will be able to draft him.

That's not necessarily true -- we could easily have a top 5 pick next year too.

In comment 13767656 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13767597 Ivan15 said: Quote: Most have bombed out or had career ending injuries early in their careers. Who cares? What does that have to do with Barkley? I never understood this argument

Me either. If we were drafting in the 90s and taking Michigan RBs like Bunch or Wheatley -- who seemed to benefit from their OL -- then that might be a valid argument. But it's not as if Penn State has a world class OL.

Wasn't meant to imply that Michigan currently has a better OL than Penn State, b/c it doesn't.

In comment 13767532 ij_reilly said:

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I think Denver is the mostly likely trade partner. Elway needs a QB. He's aggressive. Denver's 1 and 2 this year; and Denver's 1 and 2 next year. Does that work? I'm not a big fan of those 3rd and 4th round picks. It's so unusual to get an impact player.

I think Elway will go hard after Cousins. He doesn’t have time to develop a QB that may never develop. There are others vets as well, such as Bradford and Bridgewater.

In comment 13767562 EddieNYG said:

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And the team takes one of the top QBs and that QB becomes a franchise QB that wins a Super Bowl or two, how would you feel?

Like a Chargers fan.

the only 2 players I'd consider at #2 are Barkley and the corner from Alabama. The QBs all have issues.

If someone is desperate, trade down. There are too many holes that need filling.

In comment 13767805 NNJ Tom said:

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the only 2 players I'd consider at #2 are Barkley and the corner from Alabama. The QBs all have issues. If someone is desperate, trade down. There are too many holes that need filling.

I'm not sure I'd spend the 2nd pick on Fitzpatrick but I wouldn't be surprised if he became the next Jalen Ramsey.

In comment 13767683 Trainmaster said:

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I’m in the camp that feels Eli is still an asset that can get the Giants another SB in another 2 to 3 years. Add a 2nd and 3rd round OL and a top OL vet FA as well a stud RB in Barkley and the Giants should be very competitive with the return of Beckham plus Shepard and Engram. An hopefully a “non dumbass” for a Head Coach. Don’t want a rookie QB at the second overall pick.

+100000000

agree completely with this thinking. would love an impact player at LB but i think this is the blue print.

;-) THEY may trade out of the #1 one more time to...Denver/ Jets who go QB. If we go QB then Indy takes X then Cleveland gets Y and Z plus now has the 32 and 36 /38. to use or maybe trade back up into mid/late 20s in the first and still have 2 seconds.
If we don't go QB Indy takes a Y or Z Cleveland takes the Z AND the #2 QB or the next position player. They may need a JT replacement.
If both Cleveland and NY takes a position player Indy may trade with Jets or other team especially since buying the Indy is cheaper than ours..and Denver gets the #2 QB if they want it and without making a move.
Just tossing out some interesting possibilities.

And grab Trubisky

Picks 3, 67, 111, and a 2018 third-rounder

In comment 13767683 Trainmaster said:

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I’m in the camp that feels Eli is still an asset that can get the Giants another SB in another 2 to 3 years. Add a 2nd and 3rd round OL and a top OL vet FA as well a stud RB in Barkley and the Giants should be very competitive with the return of Beckham plus Shepard and Engram. An hopefully a “non dumbass” for a Head Coach. Don’t want a rookie QB at the second overall pick.

Eli's gonna be able to lead a team at 39? Rookie offensive linemen are going to make this team an immediate contender? I can't go along with that.

And spending two early picks on OL plus what little money they have on OL means a bunch of other major holes on this team don't get fixed. Even Chris Snee, as good a prospect he was, needed two years to hit his stride and become a leader and a reliable quality player.

According to the chart, the Bears-49ers trade was a fair deal for the Bears:

2nd overall (49ers original pick): 2600 points

Bears gave up:

3rd overall 2200
67 overall 255
111 overall 72
2019 3rd round at 3rd slot (with 1 round discount) 104

Total is 2631 given up for a pick worth 2600.

Both have had major injuries (Brady leg/knee; Brees shoulder). Eli has had none (knock on wood).

Rosen already has missed games due to a shoulder injury and two concussions.

Darnold looked lost behind a crap line.

Minnesota got essentially a whole new line for 2017. Give Eli a much stronger running game with Barkley, bring back Beckham, Engram and Shepard find 3 starters from the 2017 OL mess, add draft pick and a vet OL and the OL should be serviceable.

Here are some possible trade scenarios based on value chart. I also tried to identify some players that would may be available in the new spot. Do you like any of these and why?

Trade with Browns
Get #4 and two #2s (unlikely Browns want to move)
Pick Barkley, a QB, Fitz, Nelson, Chubb

OR trade with Jets or Denver
Get pick 6/7, 38/39, 92/93, #1 in 2019
Pick a QB, Nelson, Smith, Fitz, Williams, McGlinchey

Bengals (10)
Get picks 10, 42, 74 and #1 in 2019
Pick a QB, Smith, Williams, McGlinchey, James, Key

Arizona
Get picks 13, 45, 77, and #1 in 2019 and 2020
Pick Smith, Williams, McGlinchey, James, Key

Buffalo
Get picks 18, 25, 50, 82 and #1 in 2019 and 2020
Pick two from #1 or #2 WR, Price, #3 or #4 OT, #2 or #3 RB, #2 or #3 safety

Eagles get: #2

The Browns get: The No. 8 pick in 2016, the No. 77 pick (third round) in 2016, the No. 100 pick (fourth round) in 2016, a 2017 first-rounder and a 2018 second-rounder.

A trade with Jets or Denver
Get pick 6/7, 38/39, 92/93, #1 in 2019
Pick a QB, Nelson, Smith, Fitz, Williams, McGlinchey

Seems to be roughly in line We would get get 6, 38, 92, #1 vs Browns got 8, 77, 100, #1, and #2.

Difference my scenario gets the second rounder this year vs. two years out. Mine only gets 92 vs. 77 and 100. To me getting the high #2 this year offsets that.

In comment 13767511 UConn4523 said:

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but I still want the best possible player we can get, so I'm not terribly interested in a trade down.

Who knows if they should trade down. IMO 2014 draft thebbeat players were all Picked after 5. Mack Evans OBJ Donald and Martin all seem to be better values.

Could be the case w Chubb Fitzpatrick and Barkley.

Ezekiel Elliot wasn’t a top 5. No issue if they are sold on a QB and take one but every year teams fall in love w QBs who never pan out

In comment 13768344 LauderdaleMatty said:

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In comment 13767511 UConn4523 said: Quote: but I still want the best possible player we can get, so I'm not terribly interested in a trade down. Who knows if they should trade down. IMO 2014 draft thebbeat players were all Picked after 5. Mack Evans OBJ Donald and Martin all seem to be better values. Could be the case w Chubb Fitzpatrick and Barkley. Ezekiel Elliot wasn’t a top 5. No issue if they are sold on a QB and take one but every year teams fall in love w QBs who never pan out

IIRC Elliot actually was a top 5 pick, but you are not wrong.

then they may not draft QB and take Barkley or the lineman from Notre Dame...

In comment 13767597 Ivan15 said:

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Most have bombed out or had career ending injuries early in their careers.

You got to be kidd'n me. OK. There have been a few "busts" but look at the overall history. This is a pretty good record by any means. With the exception of Lydell Mitchell in the 2nd round of 72 (same draft as Franco Harris, the list below is only 1st round which I presume you are referring to. And remember that Ki-Jana Carter never recovered from his knee injury and had a very heavy long term contract. Dozier had to deal with the Walker trade as well.

2003 27th Pick: Larry Johnson in the first round by KC Chiefs in 9 seasons has 6,223 total yards with 4.4 avg. and 55 TDs. He rushed for 1750 and 1789 yards in 2005 and 2006.

1998 5th Pick: Curtis Enis by the Chicago Bears. Reported late to camp and tore up his knee in the first season gaining only 1497 yards over 3 seasons.

1995 1st Pick: Ki-Jana Carter by Cin. Bengals. Played only 59 games in 7 seasons gaining 1144 rushing yards with Bengals, Redskins and Saints. Tore his knee up in first preseason game and never was the same.

1987 14th Pick: DJ Dozier by the Minn. Vikings. Played 5 seasons with Vikings and Lions. He only gained 691 yards in the NFL. Keep in mind he played mostly behind Herschel Walker at Minn. Remember that terrible trade the Vikings did with Dallas? How could Dozier beat out Walker in that situation? Still, he did not produce much.

1983 3rd Pick: Curt Warner by the Seattle Seahawks. Played 8 seasons with 6844 career yards and 4.0 yards per carry. 3 time Pro Bowler and Ring of Honor. Led AFC in rushing his rookie season. Suffered ACL in 1984. Two time AFC Player of the Year in 83 and 86.

1974 11th Pick: John Cappelletti by LA Rams. Played 9 seasons with Rams and Chargers. Gained only 2951 yards in his career averaging 36 yards per carry.

1972 13th Pick: Franco Harris by the Pitts. Steelers. 4 Super Bowl Championships. Super Bowl IX MVP. 9 times Pro Bowl. First Team All Pro in 1977. Two time Second Team All Pro. NFL Man of the Year 1976. NFL Rushing TD Leader 1976. NFL 70s All Decade Team. Gained 12120 career yards, 91 TDs. 2,287 Receiving Yards, 9 TDs.

As an exception consider Lydell Mitchell drafted in 1972 by the Balt. Colts. 8 Seasons, 3 times Pro Bowl, 2 times 2nd team All-Pro and 2 times NFL reception leader. Gained 6534 yards at a 3.9 avg. I bring this up because Barkley is a terrific receiver and special team’s player as well.

2nd overall pick from Penn State in 1990?

In comment 13769389 Trainmaster said:

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2nd overall pick from Penn State in 1990?

Yea, he was an enigma to me as a pro player. Though he led rookies with 620 yards on 123 carries, he couldn't crack the Jets' 4 RB rotation. Then, he got a number of injuries and he never really took off. I suspect that there were other dimensional/ personal issues. He looked awfully good in college. Runs sports bars in PA (KoKoMos) with other PSU alumnus, Kenny Jackson.

to see what Carter would have done had he not blown out his knee. By all accounts he looked spectacular in camp, and expectations were enormous.