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Evaluation of Manning this season

Pascal4554 : 1/3/2018 10:31 am
Thoughts on what Gettleman will see from Manning when he re-watches this season and remains objective? Can Manning still make all the throws?

I have no background in football, so it is difficult for me to evaluate players. My gut and reading the comments from more knowledgeable posters (especially SY'56's game reviews) tells me Manning has declined somewhat, but still has something left in the tank. But curious as to what part of his skill set has declined? Arm strength? Accuracy?

To be clear I'm looking for objective analysis on his play this season. Such as "he is jittery in the pocket and is feeling a rush that isn't there" or "he it still making stupid turnovers a veteran should not be making".

I never thought Manning was in the same category as Brady, Rodgers, or Brees (as in the best of the best). But he always seemed to find an extra gear come playoff time, which seems important for any QB. From what I remember of the last playoff game against Greenbay I thought he looked pretty good.
My big thing with Eli is his footwork.  
Section331 : 1/3/2018 10:42 am : link
He gets into bad habits, and that impacts how his passes come out. I haven't seen any decline in his arm strength, but he has gotten more jittery in the pocket, which has caused some of his throws to flutter or go high.

Given the state of his OL and the horrid passing scheme BM employed, it is understandable why he struggled. The challenge for DG is if he feels Eli's issues are correctable in the short term. If so, I hope they bring in a strong QB coach to work with him, Webb, and potentially a draft pick.
In the interview yesterday  
BlackLight : 1/3/2018 10:42 am : link
Getts said that one of the games he's seen already was the 2nd Philly game, and it sounded like if he judged that to be a fair indication of where Eli's at, then yeah, Eli still has enough talent to be our QB.

Myself, I have no idea how to judge such a thing, especially given the limited WR talent we were working with since Week 5. If there's a throw that appears errant, I'm almost never sure whether that's Eli's fault or the receiver's. For years, most people around here would give Eli a pass and assume the receiver screwed something up. More recently, Eli has been catching more shit for it. I'm not sure what other folks know that I don't, but I'm fairly clueless about this stuff.
he made the playoffs six times in 14 years  
GiantNatty : 1/3/2018 10:46 am : link
and he was one-and-done in four of those appearances. yes, he played lights out in two incredibly unbelievable runs, but the last one was six years ago. love him, but it's clearly time to make room for the next guy.

gentleman's "let me look at the tape" is a keeping-his-options-open statement that is hardly a ringing endorsement.
love 10ball  
NYG007 : 1/3/2018 10:48 am : link
He is one of my all time favorite Giants players. However, Its time to move on. He can make all the throws still, however, for as many drops as his WR's have, Eli has just as many dropped INT's throwing where he should never throw.

Its time for a change. I firmly believe it wont happen until at least 2019 though. I have accepted 2018 might be a qb waste season so Eli can please the fans and not be released, retire on his own after 2018. I think that is a very poor decision by our front office. Eli has regressed, and he knows it. Just wont admit it, has 20m+ reasons not to admin it, rightfully so.
Eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 10:53 am : link
has to be one of the most difficult players to evaluate.

You have an equal parts of him elevating other players to him making some terrible mistakes.

His audible to the Darkwa run the other day was masterful, but how many times has that been snuffed because of the OL play? He's made excellent throws to guys from the street and then thrown balls for INT's that had no business leaving his hand.

When he avoids the rush and throws the ball away, he has happy feet and when he stays in the pocket and crumbles, people complain he's a statue.

Has to be one of the toughest guys ever to categorize.
I will say this though...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 10:55 am : link
people saying " we have" and follow it up with "to move on" or "to keep him" are part of the issue. We don't HAVE to do either.

It's up to the people with better pay grades to make that decision because we could easily struggle with a middling replacement for the next few years just as much as we could keep him and have it backfire.
This thread should be interesting  
Mike from Ohio : 1/3/2018 11:00 am : link
My guess is you will see every opinion from "Still the best QB in the league, and it's not even close" to "He is so bad he makes this really good Oline and receiving corp look terrible."

My take is that Eli still has the talent to play in this league another year or two, but he has slipped enough that he can't carry a team with a poor Oline like he did in 2011. There are not a lot of guys who can. Brady, Rodgers...maybe Brees still. That's about it.

My guess is Gettleman's evaluation will be based largely on what he wants to do with the QB position going forward. I would say Eli's biggest problem right now is that he simply does not trust the line and he hurries he throws and plays with poor footwork sometimes because of that. That won't likely be better next year even if they address the line in the offseason because he will need to gain trust in them which will take time after the past few years.

My guess is the Giants will draft a QB at #2, but bring Eli back for one more year while they let him learn. I don't think they will throw the new guy in unless the season goes off the rails like 2004 was when Eli came in for Warner. If they are competitive in 2018 Eli will play it out and then likely yield to the new guy in 2019.
I think he will see a guy who can still win, bottom line  
dancing blue bear : 1/3/2018 11:02 am : link
I don't think there is a huge drop off in physical skills. he was zinging the ball around week 17 in the cold and win.

In context, the team and offense was decimated by the end of the year, and not very good to begin with. Couple that with bad coaching and we saw a shit show the last 2 years. That is what will jump off on film.

We know about the offensive line. We know about the receivers. I think over time, by design, partly, the O was forced to throw the ball extremely quickly, and the protection was terrible. Eli got gunshy in the pocket and developed some bad habits. Falling away when he threw. not setting his feet. throwing early, forcing the ball (although he always had that habit, it was different with this group. He forced it only partly out of faith in his arm- partly out of desperation. also he didn't get much help)

I def. feel this can be overcome. One thing even Elis detractors will admit, is the guy is tough. I don't think he is afraid to stay in there and take a hit. Just happened way to often.

I don't think the new offense has to be designed around Eli(if he is here or not). It has to be designed around the NFC EAST. It needs to be balanced with a legit running game, and "throw with purpose" That suits Eli, but more importantly it is a proven recipe to win in the East.

Anyway, all that said, I believe the takeaway is Eli can still win, but the offense is absolute garbage, both personell and scheme.

That is only one piece of the puzzle, though. Those things need to be fixed regardless of who is the QB next year.

I think the film study that is more important for DG, is what he thinks of Webb, both his game film from last year and his practice film (whatever there may be), plus his evaluations from the coaches.

Then it is the film on the QBs coming out this year. If there is a legit franchise QB they can get, it is a no brainer. My contention is there is not. I am not an expert. Just a fan, but these guys do not excite me. And forcing a pick on QB, esp that early is catostrophic. That is what shitty teams do.

REPEAT. It is more damaging to take the wrong guy, then it is to miss out on a potentially good prospect.There are no great prospects this year, there is no consensus.

Evalutaing physical talent for the group of prospects is only part of the puzzle as well. There is a lot more to picking a QB then just how they can throw it. The mental make up is ,IMO, more important. toughness, work ethic, leadership, poise, decision making, and mental capacity. All very difficult to evaluate, but vital in success. Esp. in NY

The giants are in a really good spot. They have a QB and a prospect, and the second pick in the draft. They don't have to do anything.

There is enough of both good and bad  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/3/2018 11:02 am : link
to allow people to see whatever they want to see. I think you can still win with him, but his limitations in terms of movement (which he has had forever) don't allow him to overcome a bad line and no running game. I don't really see a decline so much as a guy whose physical limitations don't allow him to overcome shitty play on the O-line.

His brain, which has always been one of his strengths, is a really hard part of the game to evaluate unless you are in the coaching room. That part of the game is often overlooked because it is very hard to evaluate if you don't have the coaches information and thoroughly understand what defenses are trying to do.
Good enough to keep for another year while  
bceagle05 : 1/3/2018 11:05 am : link
the #2 pick develops behind him.

Perhaps the bigger question is how does Eli feel about such a scenario? If we draft a QB in round one it guarantees Eli won't finish his career as the starting QB of the New York Giants (assuming he wants to play 2-3 more seasons). So why not leave now and give yourself a window of opportunity with another team? Seems he'd just be looking over his shoulder from here on out with the Giants.
...  
Dodge : 1/3/2018 11:06 am : link
Eli still has the football knowledge and can see the field. So I don't have an issue with that. I'm also confident he can learn a new offense.

I think his accuracy is off, but it always has been. He still throws high, and has no touch on balls to the flat. But that's Eli.

My main issue is because his line has been shit for so long is he shell shocked? If we were to finally get him a good line again (next year) is he still going to have happy feet, fold with pressure easily, panic, or make wild throws? Is he traumatized?

Everyone says that if you put a team around him, Eli will produce. That might of been the case 1-3 years ago, is it still the case or does he suffer from PTSD?
agreed that he is difficult to evaluate - always has been  
LG in NYC : 1/3/2018 11:06 am : link
His entire career has been consistently inconsistent. Never dominant for a season but is a 2 time SB MVP.

as for the basic premise of this post, I think it would be a mistake for Gettlemen or anyone to try and make any judgement on Eli off of this season alone... there are so many other factors in play when evaluating 2017 (bad O Line, coaching issues, injuries, etc)

Rather I think it would make sense to judge Eli on his last handful of seasons (4-6)... and ask:

*what does he do consistently well, what does he not do consistently well?
*what other factors have contributed to his success or lack of success?
*What was his role in the overall losing culture of the past 6 years?
*What offense will he give you his best and is that what you plan on implementing going forward?


and despite what he says publicly, I think DG will do exactly that... he would be foolish to judge Eli on 1 game against a team he traditionally puts up big numbers against and assume that is what we will get week in and week out... and DG is not foolish, IMO.

I am fairly confident DG will not deem Eli worthy of his current $$ value, but the bigger question for him and his new HC is what are the other options available to you and what kind of timeline are you on for building the team back up again.
he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 11:07 am : link
and will be mediocre in 2018,if you like older mediocre qbs,he is the guy.
Arm is sound; he is healthy  
HomerJones45 : 1/3/2018 11:07 am : link
He's proven he can win it all and have a great offense when provided with some semblance of offensive players around him.

The sins of the fatheaded GM and the clueless McAdoo and his for-shit offensive scheme do not sit on his head. You don't "move on" from a guy like that when he is under contract unless you have his successor on the team which we don't.

"Evaluate" to your hearts content but that's is what it comes down to.

from a physical standpoint  
djm : 1/3/2018 11:08 am : link
Eli can still make all the throws. It's clear he can.

Eli left some plays out there this year. He missed 1-2 plays a game. Sometimes really big. Sometimes even more tha 1-2 but he can make all the throws he was making in 2005-2012. I think the offense left ZERO margin for error which can impact any QB.

I think Eli can be part of the solution. He was never a guy that could elevate the entire broken down offense but he's the guy you want if the offense is at least capable and the team is hunting in January. That's my take.
Thanks everyone for their comments  
Pascal4554 : 1/3/2018 11:13 am : link
Some really good points being made.
RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
HomerJones45 : 1/3/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 13769215 sundayatone said:
Quote:
and will be mediocre in 2018,if you like older mediocre qbs,he is the guy.
I would challenge Dan Marino to be a star qb in this piece-of-shit offensive system from the HC you wanted with the crappy players furnished by the nimrod GM you supported.
Abstaining from posting my personal opinion on this thread....  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 11:18 am : link
I'll just post Kevin Gilbride and Greg Cosell from about 3 weeks ago or so:

Gilbride:

Quote:
Gilbride said flatly that “I do not see a significant dropoff” in Manning’s play.

“What I know is this guy’s going to be prepared. He’ll always be as selfless, as hard working, as professional as you could ask anybody to be. When I do watch him on film I see a guy who’s arm strength is still the same.

“As I’ve said on numerous occasions will never and never has solved problems with his feet. He’s not gonna do that. He can solve it with his arm, he can solve it with his brains, he can solve it with his heart. But, if you’re asking this guy to solve problems because of difficulty with protection and what have you with his feet you’ve got the wrong guy. That’s not who he is.”


Cosell:

Quote:
Cosell on Eli the player: “It’s a bad offense, and has been for a while, and there’s many factors that go into that, and the QB bears the brunt of it. That’s just the reality of life in the NFL. I would say that it’s a team with a poor OL. It’s a team that can’t run the football, and Eli is a ‘dependent’ QB – Eli is dependent on the rest of the team to be successful. So right now, the ‘dependent’ parts are totally lacking, and he can’t be successful on any kind of consistent basis. It’s not a function of if he’s lost his ability to throw a football, he’s not lost his ability to understand the game and control a game at the line of scrimmage. He’s not lost his ability, but his style of QB’ing...he’s a ‘dependent’ player. There’s nothing for him to depend on right now within an offense that’s bad in every single area.”


Since those guys are pros, I think what Gettleman will see on tape will be closer to those opinions, rather than some of the BBI opinions on the matter.

Secondly, Gettleman was here before, knew Eli and Gilbride then, and will have that in his head as well.
Evaluating Eli  
Samiam : 1/3/2018 11:24 am : link
For much if not most of the year, he had one of the worst OLs any fan has ever seen and the worst group of WRs maybe in the history of the game. Look at the WRs he was throwing to in the Washington game. Most of these guys would not even make the proactive squads of lots of teams. Eli has spent years throwing with people in his face to receivers who can’t run a pattern or run the wrong pattern or drop too many catchable balls or leave tipped balls for the DBs. He’s had a horrible run game for several years now.

So, with this as a background, how do you draw conclusions when he releases the ball early or has happy feet or misses an open receivers (who may have run the wrong pattern or made the wrong adjustment? A QB like Eli who doesn’t rely on athleticism doesn’t lose quickly. If you think Eli can’t do the job with a decent supporting cast, go back to football 101. Eli’s supporting cast, including the coaches was far from decent for a long time
Thanks Britt  
Pascal4554 : 1/3/2018 11:27 am : link
I forgot about that quote from Gilbride. That's a good one.
Also can we stop repeating the myth Brady can thrive with a poor OL  
JCin332 : 1/3/2018 11:27 am : link
because quite frankly he has never had a poor OL in his career...

Yes some years he has had better than others but he has never had the shitshow that the Giants have fielded the last 3 or 4 years...

All QB's need basic tools to win including a decent OL and a running game...

And the Giants have been league worst in those categories for quite some time...
RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 11:36 am : link
In comment 13769231 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13769215 sundayatone said:


Quote:


and will be mediocre in 2018,if you like older mediocre qbs,he is the guy.

I would challenge Dan Marino to be a star qb in this piece-of-shit offensive system from the HC you wanted with the crappy players furnished by the nimrod GM you supported.


eli has 81 picks since 2013 and countless fumbles,but its never his fault.he has been mediocre for years,just watch the games.
RE: he made the playoffs six times in 14 years  
Alan in Toledo : 1/3/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 13769152 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
and he was one-and-done in four of those appearances. yes, he played lights out in two incredibly unbelievable runs, but the last one was six years ago. love him, but it's clearly time to make room for the next guy.

gentleman's "let me look at the tape" is a keeping-his-options-open statement that is hardly a ringing endorsement.


Clearly? Really?
Britt  
LG in NYC : 1/3/2018 11:37 am : link
You like to copy and paste those quotes as often as possible.. but I do not find either of them overly positive towards Eli.

Gilbride, who obviously holds Eli in high regard (as he should) basically says Eli is hardworking, is a selfless professional and hasn't lost arm strength. All good things but not exactly a ringing endt that he is a top notch QB we should be building around going forward. And again, I wouldn't expect Gilbride to say anything negative about the guy that won him 2 rings so not sure how much to even care about that little blurb.

and Cosell essentially called Eli a game manager. Ok, I'll accept that.


Neither of these things make me change my overall position that should a good alternative present itself (high draft pick, young veteran QB, trade oppty) we should pursue it. and I would hope DG would do the same.

If Eli is our QB next year, then I hope we have done enough around him so we get better production out of that position and can turn this ugly ship around sooner rather than later.
RE: This thread should be interesting  
Giantology : 1/3/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13769193 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
My guess is you will see every opinion from "Still the best QB in the league, and it's not even close" to "He is so bad he makes this really good Oline and receiving corp look terrible."


Mike, this is nonsense. There have been loads of Eli defenders and supporters over the years, but even they wouldn't be ignorant enough to claim Eli was ever the best QB in the league.
I copy and paste them because they are the closest thing....  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 11:41 am : link
I have read to a professional evaluation of Eli's current play this season, from people qualified to do so.

I think they will line up more with what Gettleman sees than what some of you see, frankly. No offense.
Also, Gettleman was here from the day Eli walked into the door....  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 11:43 am : link
in 2004, until the second Superbowl in 2011, and was here with Gilbride during his entire tenure as well. It's likely they have similar views on Eli.
It's not like Gettleman is walking in here and meeting Eli...  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 11:44 am : link
for the first time. He likely knows his game very, very well.
Finally...  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 11:47 am : link
Gettleman remembers when his undefeated Panthers came into Metlife and Eli threw three TD's in the fourth quarter to tie the game with under a minute left, only to have the defense give up an easy FG drive with .50 seconds left.

Gettleman knows the book on Eli already, his tape viewing will likely be built on prior knowledge of what he already knows of the player.
Does anyone here actually know what good QB footwork is?  
widmerseyebrow : 1/3/2018 11:47 am : link
.
I think the binary nature of the debate is frustrating  
AcesUp : 1/3/2018 12:05 pm : link
I don't think the debate is whether he is "done" or "not done". The debate is, can the NY Giants win a super bowl with Eli? You evaluate what he is now, factor in the likelihood of decline (or further decline) at his age, the two years remaining on his contract and the current state of your franchise. There are peripheral factors like Eli's own ambitions, whether a Eli's successor is even available at #2, how your new head coach feels about Eli and if there is a team out there willing to trade for a vet QB that can get them over the hump.

Too much of the debate is revolving around this narrow minded binary evaluation of Eli when there are other variables that will have a bigger influence on the direction of this franchise.
...  
christian : 1/3/2018 12:06 pm : link
There are a number of things to evaluate with an aging player.

Manning has been an iron man to the fans and media, but only the medical staff know what he's played through and what he's medicated through. That's the first step. Are there any chronic conditions or deteriorations?

Secondly, is there a visible changes in his full body throwing motion? Does he still generate explosion in his lower body, is his arm motion generally still repeatable, is he flicking the ball more with his wrist?

On tape, with good protection and feet placement, is he getting the ball to the intended target with good speed and accuracy?

On shorter throws is his elbow as square as it once was? On his shorter throws is he getting the ball there with good zip and touch?

When the plays are unfolding, does he see openings, deceptions, closing windows as quickly as he once did? Is he throwing to spots that aren't open and is he hesitating to fire the ball before the play unfolds?

Or you know, the new GM might just say fuck it. Coughlin good, Reese bad. Let's roll.
RE: I think the binary nature of the debate is frustrating  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13769374 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I don't think the debate is whether he is "done" or "not done". The debate is, can the NY Giants win a super bowl with Eli? You evaluate what he is now, factor in the likelihood of decline (or further decline) at his age, the two years remaining on his contract and the current state of your franchise. There are peripheral factors like Eli's own ambitions, whether a Eli's successor is even available at #2, how your new head coach feels about Eli and if there is a team out there willing to trade for a vet QB that can get them over the hump.

Too much of the debate is revolving around this narrow minded binary evaluation of Eli when there are other variables that will have a bigger influence on the direction of this franchise.


Good post. Quite reasonable.
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 12:13 pm : link
Quote:
eli has 81 picks since 2013


And he's had 128TD's.

Why that is conveniently left off says more about your agenda than the stats.
RE: Eli..  
UberAlias : 1/3/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13769171 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
has to be one of the most difficult players to evaluate.

You have an equal parts of him elevating other players to him making some terrible mistakes.

His audible to the Darkwa run the other day was masterful, but how many times has that been snuffed because of the OL play? He's made excellent throws to guys from the street and then thrown balls for INT's that had no business leaving his hand.

When he avoids the rush and throws the ball away, he has happy feet and when he stays in the pocket and crumbles, people complain he's a statue.

Has to be one of the toughest guys ever to categorize.
I agree with this. There is a mixture of good and bad, but his situation makes it challenging to get a fair read.
RE: LOL...  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13769402 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


eli has 81 picks since 2013



And he's had 128TD's.

Why that is conveniently left off says more about your agenda than the stats.


Just for fun....

in the 5 years from 2013 through 2017

128 TD's and 81 INT's

in the five years from 2008 through 2012

144 TD's and 80 INT's
The first thing he will need to evaluate  
montanagiant : 1/3/2018 12:39 pm : link
Is the Offense scheme itself.
The last two years we have seen some of the shittiest offensive schemes and game planning in the history of the NY Giants. No real evaluation of any player can be done until that's first addressed
One thing im absolutely convinced of  
bLiTz 2k : 1/3/2018 12:53 pm : link
is how many fans don't really watch much football from other teams, and only watch highlight reels from around the league and read stats.

There are throws EVERY QB makes that make you go WTF...and the fact that Eli Manning is not (or will never be) Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers where they completely change the game furthers the "Eli is the problem" agenda.

Ive said it a million times already --- If there is a QB available at #2 that you have an absolute conviction he will be a franchise type player, then of course you take him.... but forcing the pick is the wrong move.

And watch some FULL games from the likes of the QBs other than Brady and Rodgers and you will see you can do a whole lot worse than Eli Manning on a broken offense.


RE: The first thing he will need to evaluate  
christian : 1/3/2018 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13769489 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Is the Offense scheme itself.
The last two years we have seen some of the shittiest offensive schemes and game planning in the history of the NY Giants. No real evaluation of any player can be done until that's first addressed


I'm pretty sure the analysis of that system has been thoroughly addressed since the guy who implemented it is jobless.

The system sucked - the whole of the NFL and media world knew it. Opposing players made fun of our players about it. Our former players made fun of us about it in the media.

So then how do you weed out whether the decline in play of the quarterback and the system sucking are mutually exclusive?

I would hope the GM, new coach, medical staff, and pro-personnel staff will give run Manning up against the same due diligence they would an UFA.

I sure hope it's not predicated on "well the system sucks, I'm sure Eli is fine."
Good God Eli has been terrible this year  
JerseyCityJoe : 1/3/2018 12:58 pm : link
Yes his OL stunk but he did not help them one bit with zero ability to move from the pocket. In addition how many times did he miss deep passes this year with guys completely open? The answer is too many times for a starting QB making 20mil plus. Hey, Eli can still make some plays no question but he is not helping the offense and if he's not helping he is hurting it.

We should thank Eli for his time here and those 2 wonderful SB wins that now seem so long ago and move on.
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 1:00 pm : link
I'm thinking pretty low:

Quote:
In addition how many times did he miss deep passes this year with guys completely open?


Guys being completely open didn't happen very much at all and you can probably point to Lewis or King not hauling in deep passes as many times or more than ones where the passes were poor.
RE: Good God Eli has been terrible this year  
bLiTz 2k : 1/3/2018 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13769573 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
Yes his OL stunk but he did not help them one bit with zero ability to move from the pocket. In addition how many times did he miss deep passes this year with guys completely open? The answer is too many times for a starting QB making 20mil plus. Hey, Eli can still make some plays no question but he is not helping the offense and if he's not helping he is hurting it.

We should thank Eli for his time here and those 2 wonderful SB wins that now seem so long ago and move on.



Besides Brady and Rodgers (even that is questionable..) which QBs do you think could win games with that offense?
i just want to see screen passes completed  
hitdog42 : 1/3/2018 1:08 pm : link
at a high rate.

to our team
most accurate comment i have seen  
jmalls23 : 1/3/2018 1:11 pm : link
Eli makes throws he has no business trying to make. saw at least two easy picks skins dropped over the middle. after 14 years its crazy that he still makes these throws. time to move on
RE: RE: LOL...  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13769430 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13769402 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:




Quote:


eli has 81 picks since 2013



And he's had 128TD's.

Why that is conveniently left off says more about your agenda than the stats.



Just for fun....

in the 5 years from 2013 through 2017

128 TD's and 81 INT's

in the five years from 2008 through 2012

144 TD's and 80 INT's


i would call the 5yrs mediocre,that is just reality. he has not been good to very good,just mediocre. sorry if this bothers you.
AcesUp - great post and you are right on  
LG in NYC : 1/3/2018 1:16 pm : link
The individual opinion as to whether you want to move forward with or without Eli isn't the same as "is he done or not?".

I keep coming back to this: what is Eli really good at? what does he do that so well that a different QB couldn't do?
Conversely, what are we missing out on at the QB position that a different QB could be better at?

I struggle to find enough in the "what Eli does well" column to justify another year with him at the helm. I would rather take a chance with a new QB (even if it is a top rookie who we can build with) that has the potential for greatness going forward. And if I am betting, then I do not think Eli has another magical run in him before his football life is up.
RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
Del Shofner : 1/3/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13769215 sundayatone said:
Quote:
.


I believe you've said that before (if not you, someone else said the same thing). Just curious - are you attributing any of Eli's perceived decline to Hurricane Sandy itself? Or is that just a chronological marker that comes more easily to you than saying "late October 2012"?
RE: Eli..  
Jeffrey : 1/3/2018 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13769171 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
has to be one of the most difficult players to evaluate.

You have an equal parts of him elevating other players to him making some terrible mistakes.

His audible to the Darkwa run the other day was masterful, but how many times has that been snuffed because of the OL play? He's made excellent throws to guys from the street and then thrown balls for INT's that had no business leaving his hand.

When he avoids the rush and throws the ball away, he has happy feet and when he stays in the pocket and crumbles, people complain he's a statue.

Has to be one of the toughest guys ever to categorize.


This is very fair. In my mind the issue is not whether Eli has something left in the tank, but rather what the value is to him and the Giants of having him spend 1-2 more years on a team that is clearly not ready for a Super Bowl run. To the extent he can still play at a high level it would be a waste of his remaining career and to the extent his skills decline it would continue the controversy that has exploded this year while delaying the rebuild at the most vital position on the team.
RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13769638 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 13769215 sundayatone said:


Quote:


.



I believe you've said that before (if not you, someone else said the same thing). Just curious - are you attributing any of Eli's perceived decline to Hurricane Sandy itself? Or is that just a chronological marker that comes more easily to you than saying "late October 2012"?


the pitts game right after the hurricane,he was bad in the 2nd half as the giants lost a 4th quarter lead. the game victor cruz got lit up in the end zone by ryan clark.ever since then eli and the giants have been mediocre to bad.remember the falcon game after sandyhook and the baltimore no show at the end of the season,that is when the downfall started.
RE: RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
Del Shofner : 1/3/2018 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13769708 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13769638 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


In comment 13769215 sundayatone said:


Quote:


.



I believe you've said that before (if not you, someone else said the same thing). Just curious - are you attributing any of Eli's perceived decline to Hurricane Sandy itself? Or is that just a chronological marker that comes more easily to you than saying "late October 2012"?



the pitts game right after the hurricane,he was bad in the 2nd half as the giants lost a 4th quarter lead. the game victor cruz got lit up in the end zone by ryan clark.ever since then eli and the giants have been mediocre to bad.remember the falcon game after sandyhook and the baltimore no show at the end of the season,that is when the downfall started.


OK, but are you attributing the start of the downfall to Hurricane Sandy and/or Sandy Hook (which were about six weeks apart)? In terms of cause and effect, like those incidents affected Eli somehow?

Or are you just saying it was the same time, and referring to those incidents rather than saying "the second half of the 2012 season" (or something like that)?

That's what I am trying to understand.
Eli Options  
Giantslifer : 1/3/2018 1:55 pm : link
Eli has been in steady decline for years. Still fumbles and throws interceptions like a rookie.What he has is stability and supposedly a desire to learn. The question is -
Is he willing to become a mentor? If he is great. If he isn't trade /cut him.
Honestly..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 1:58 pm : link
what the fuck do comments like this accomplish??

Quote:
Eli Options
Giantslifer : 1:55 pm : link : reply
Eli has been in steady decline for years. Still fumbles and throws interceptions like a rookie.


Favre did the same fucking thing and was considered a gunslinger. For eli, it is proof positive he's in "steady decline"?

Fuck me.
RE: Honestly..  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13769752 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what the fuck do comments like this accomplish??



Quote:


Eli Options
Giantslifer : 1:55 pm : link : reply
Eli has been in steady decline for years. Still fumbles and throws interceptions like a rookie.



Favre did the same fucking thing and was considered a gunslinger. For eli, it is proof positive he's in "steady decline"?

Fuck me.


i know brett favre, brett favre is a friend of mine,eli is no brett favre.
RE: Eli Options  
18E : 1/3/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13769741 Giantslifer said:
Quote:
Eli has been in steady decline for years. Still fumbles and throws interceptions like a rookie.What he has is stability and supposedly a desire to learn. The question is -
Is he willing to become a mentor? If he is great. If he isn't trade /cut him.


Yeah ok. Take a walk asshole.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 2:51 pm : link
Sure.

Quote:
i know brett favre, brett favre is a friend of mine,eli is no brett favre.


Just a terrible poster.
Off the top of my head these guys could have done a better job IMO  
JerseyCityJoe : 1/3/2018 2:58 pm : link
Quote:
Besides Brady and Rodgers (even that is questionable..) which QBs do you think could win games with that offense?


Carson Wentz
Russel Wilson
Alex Smith
Marcus Marriotta
Cam Newton
Derek Carr
etc......
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 3:12 pm : link
Look at Derek Carr this year without a good OL. He's been hurt and ineffective.

Cam Newton and Alex Smith both did terribly without good lines. Just look at the Panthers post SB and the Chiefs 2 years ago.
RE: LOL..  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13769847 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Sure.



Quote:


i know brett favre, brett favre is a friend of mine,eli is no brett favre.



Just a terrible poster.


and you are a terrible person skippy
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 3:18 pm : link
you assume this because I think you are a fucking moron?

At least now I know why your takes are so atrocious.
RE: RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
HomerJones45 : 1/3/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13769283 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13769231 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13769215 sundayatone said:


Quote:


and will be mediocre in 2018,if you like older mediocre qbs,he is the guy.

I would challenge Dan Marino to be a star qb in this piece-of-shit offensive system from the HC you wanted with the crappy players furnished by the nimrod GM you supported.



eli has 81 picks since 2013 and countless fumbles,but its never his fault.he has been mediocre for years,just watch the games.
He's also thrown for 19,000 yards and a 128 TD's during that time span with such luminaries furnished by the GM you loved like Larry Donnell, Jerrel Jernigan (so good we needed to trade up for him!), Preston Parker, Wiil Tye, Aaron Brown, Paul Perkins, Andre Williams, Kevin Ogletree, Brandon Marshall, Myles White, Brandon Myers, Michael Cox etc etc etc.
Don't forget Derek Hagan...  
JCin332 : 1/3/2018 3:23 pm : link
...
RE: And..  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13769890 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you assume this because I think you are a fucking moron?

At least now I know why your takes are so atrocious.


another keyboard tuff guy loser,putz.
Okay, now I'm starting to find this interesting....  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 3:43 pm : link
as far as five year comparisons go.

Eli is in decline, right? Everybody is pointing to statistics from 2013 to now. Five years of mediocre play, not being able to elevate those around him, etc... Think about how different the rosters were between 2008-2012 to 2013-2017... Think about the different WR's, TE's, and level of O-line play between those two five year chunks.

Here are the numbers over those two five year blocks:

2013-2017

20155 yards, 61% completion percentage, 128 TD's, 81 INT's

2008-2012

20142 yards, 61% completion percentage, 144 TD's, 80 INT's

An unbelievable difference of only 13 yards (!!), exact same completion percentage, 16 TD's, and 1 INT

That's actually unbelievably consistent, isn't it?

Where is the decline statistically, exactly?
And again...  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 3:46 pm : link
I'm not against drafting his replacement, and I'm not against the idea that he is getting older and we need to be thinking of the plan for after Eli....

But this decline and age sh-t has gotten outrageous.

It's a idiot field day. You don't know what you're watching.
And I'm not saying he's NOT in decline, either....  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 3:48 pm : link
but to state it with the weird statistics that people do, and the twisted narratives...

It's all just bullsh-t, and nearly impossible to evaluate under the circumstances.
But Britt..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 3:50 pm : link
he still throws picks and fumbles!!!
RE: But Britt..  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13769956 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
he still throws picks and fumbles!!!


Good point Fatman, I forgot fumbles:

2008-2012: 38 Fumbles
2013-2017: 43 Fumbles
I guess the main difference between 2008-2012 Eli and....  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 3:54 pm : link
2013-2017 Eli is that he doesn't have "it"! I can't quantify what "it" is, but it's clear to me he doesn't have "it".
Eli wouldn't be Eli without the 2 SB's championships  
LG in NYC : 1/3/2018 4:09 pm : link
which he had in the first 5 years of your comparison, and none (in fact, no playoff wins either) in the 2nd five years.

so maybe the argument isn't that he is in decline (which is not an argument I personally have ever made) but rather that he never was really all that great - but for 2 incredible post-season runs?

Love this game...  
brunswick : 1/3/2018 4:12 pm : link
Including 2013 season...

QB A 128TD/84 INT
QB B 138/66
QB C 164/63
QB D 153/73
QB E 133/66

I will start it off. Mr Sloppy is A.

Ben,Brees,Rivers and Matty Ice are the rest. Enough said. We need a new signal caller!!!!!!
I think...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 4:15 pm : link
quite a few BBI'ers are proud to hold the view that eli isn't all that great nor never was.

Understanding why they hold that position is one I'll struggle with for a long time.

It is almost like having a contrarian badge of honor to lean on. At least as a fan, I understand people being forever grateful for a 2 time SB MVP. The logical side of me has a hard time reconciling the opposite view.
And case..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 4:16 pm : link
in point, some jacknut thinks calling him Mr. Sloppy is appropriate.
RE: RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
Section331 : 1/3/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13769283 sundayatone said:
Quote:

eli has 81 picks since 2013 and countless fumbles,but its never his fault.he has been mediocre for years,just watch the games.


Mediocre for years?

2014 - 4,400 yds, 30 TD's, 14 INT's, 63%, 7.3 YPA
2015 - 4,435 yds, 35 TD's, 14 INT's, 62.5%, 7.2 YPA

Funny how you parrot the Fox graphic from one of the games this year. What it doesn't say is that Eli's INT #'s for that period are skewed greatly by his 27 INT's in 2013. Even his biggest apologists will acknowledge that was a terrible year for him. From 2014, it is 111 TD's to 57 INT's.

So the only thing mediocre in your post is your post.
RE: Eli wouldn't be Eli without the 2 SB's championships  
Section331 : 1/3/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13769994 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
which he had in the first 5 years of your comparison, and none (in fact, no playoff wins either) in the 2nd five years.

so maybe the argument isn't that he is in decline (which is not an argument I personally have ever made) but rather that he never was really all that great - but for 2 incredible post-season runs?



If you don't think his 2011 season is elite, I don't know what you were watching. He was a legitimate MVP candidate.
Eli being 'elite'?  
brunswick : 1/3/2018 4:33 pm : link
The #'s don't tell the whole story but it's damn close. If you think Eli has played good football the last couple of years you are not only kidding urself but all Eli fans on this site. There is nothing wrong with saying that if Manning wasn't on the back of his jersey he would have a tough time finding a job in this league. People talk about how good he was in 2011. So was Adrian Peterson. It's 2018 now and it's that time...time for Eli to pack his bags and move on.
FMiC  
LG in NYC : 1/3/2018 4:35 pm : link
My post - to the extent you were referring to it - was mostly tongue in cheek as a response to Britt.

As you have noted, Eli's career is a difficult one to put into context. As a fan, I spent the better part of a decade defending his "greatness" and even now, have argued he is a HOFer when retires. I have celebrated his career and encouraged my sons to do the same through Eli shirts, posters, etc...

all that said, while he was perfect for the Giants for many years, he wasn't necessarily a consistently top QB when compared to what most consider the best of the bunch curing that stretch. His claim to fame is the 2 incredible SB runs. Without them, he maybe isn't even a Giant currently.

so despite the fact that it seems like I am some major anti-Eli crusader... what I actually am is a frustrated fan who thinks the team is in the midst of a much needed tear-down and rebuild, and I don't see the value of holding on to an older, expensive QB who doesn't necessarily excel at anything, and have us go .500 or worse for the next 2 years at the expense of developing our next QB.

I have made no definitive claims about what I know the future holds, b/c I don't. I have expressed my opinion, provided my reasoning, and peppered in some sarcastic comments along the way.

No more, no less.
RE: RE: RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
sundayatone : 1/3/2018 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13770014 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13769283 sundayatone said:


Quote:



eli has 81 picks since 2013 and countless fumbles,but its never his fault.he has been mediocre for years,just watch the games.



Mediocre for years?

2014 - 4,400 yds, 30 TD's, 14 INT's, 63%, 7.3 YPA
2015 - 4,435 yds, 35 TD's, 14 INT's, 62.5%, 7.2 YPA

Funny how you parrot the Fox graphic from one of the games this year. What it doesn't say is that Eli's INT #'s for that period are skewed greatly by his 27 INT's in 2013. Even his biggest apologists will acknowledge that was a terrible year for him. From 2014, it is 111 TD's to 57 INT's.

So the only thing mediocre in your post is your post.


if you think eli has been better then mediocre the last 5yrs delete your account.he has been a losing qb on a losing team,case closed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
bLiTz 2k : 1/3/2018 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13770061 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13770014 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 13769283 sundayatone said:


Quote:



eli has 81 picks since 2013 and countless fumbles,but its never his fault.he has been mediocre for years,just watch the games.



Mediocre for years?

2014 - 4,400 yds, 30 TD's, 14 INT's, 63%, 7.3 YPA
2015 - 4,435 yds, 35 TD's, 14 INT's, 62.5%, 7.2 YPA

Funny how you parrot the Fox graphic from one of the games this year. What it doesn't say is that Eli's INT #'s for that period are skewed greatly by his 27 INT's in 2013. Even his biggest apologists will acknowledge that was a terrible year for him. From 2014, it is 111 TD's to 57 INT's.

So the only thing mediocre in your post is your post.



if you think eli has been better then mediocre the last 5yrs delete your account.he has been a losing qb on a losing team,case closed.


Great argument...when people start backing up facts that don't support your narrative they need to delete their account?

What a mongloid.
Round and round we go  
NYG07 : 1/3/2018 7:08 pm : link
I thought he was terrible this season. Alarmingly bad. I remember turning on the Seahawk game when I landed in Charlotte for a business trip in the 3rd quarter and Eli had something like 42 yards passing. My jaw dropped.

I understand he did not have much around him this year, but seriously, go back and re-watch games from 2009-2011 and tell me he is the same player. He has always been and always will be a turnover machine, but he had so many brilliant moments in spite of that. I thought it was funny that Gettleman mentioned the Eagles game, the one exceptional game Eli has played in 2 seasons.

He is not the same player he used to be, and just remember this, he will be even more limited next year. This is not going to be a smooth transition for fans, whenever it happens.
No one said he is the same player...  
bLiTz 2k : 1/3/2018 8:56 pm : link
just if you can win with him.

It also would help to conveniently remember to compare him having guys like Cruz, Nicks, Manningham, Bradshaw and that championship O-Line compared to the crap that's been trotted out the last few seasons..
RE: I will say this though...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/3/2018 9:15 pm : link
In comment 13769178 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
people saying " we have" and follow it up with "to move on" or "to keep him" are part of the issue. We don't HAVE to do either.

It's up to the people with better pay grades to make that decision because we could easily struggle with a middling replacement for the next few years just as much as we could keep him and have it backfire.


My pay grade is fairly decent so I say move on.

Eli is not going to win us more games going forward. Giants should take a small step back at QB to make a big move forward...
And If you’re a Giant fan and still find it tough to evaluate him  
Jimmy Googs : 1/3/2018 9:25 pm : link
after all these years, don’t bother at this point as you are clearly looking for things from the past that aren’t relevant any longer...
Yeah...  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 9:38 pm : link
Well we'll see, won't we?
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 9:48 pm : link
if you think you can evaluate a QB playing in a terrible system with absolutely no playmakers, then I'm fairly certain you are overestimating your abilities.

Eli the past few years is nearly the same guy as the previous few years before it, so the comment about looking for things is probably dead on - but from the other side of the coin.

He is a really tough player to evaluate because you can't definitively say he's declined because he has been stuck in an atrocious system for two years. A historically poor one.
...  
christian : 1/3/2018 10:01 pm : link
Thankfully the Giants are privy to much more data than his stats, and will consider factors completely dependent from the outcome in the system.

They have practice tape, his prep tape, his full historical medicals, and his post-season physical.

With this much financially and systemically at stake, the Giants will self-scout Manning like a free agent.

Manning's arm strength, reaction time and overall health are orders of magnitude more indicative of future production than TD:INT ratio in a system in which the operator was fired.
I'm going to laugh my ass off  
montanagiant : 1/3/2018 10:31 pm : link
When he is there in a Giants Uniform as our starting QB for the next couple years
RE: I'm going to laugh my ass off  
montanagiant : 1/3/2018 10:32 pm : link
In comment 13770618 montanagiant said:
Quote:
When he is there in a Giants Uniform as our starting QB for the next couple years

"Laugh my ass off at some of you"
Decline  
Thegratefulhead : 1/3/2018 10:54 pm : link


Revised as of 9/11/2012
Quarterbacks are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the quarterback 's performance compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage. DYAR (and its cousin, YAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

The other statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average quarterback in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. Negative DVOA represents below-average offense. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

The simple version: DYAR means a quarterback with more total value. DVOA means a quarterback with more value per play.

Effective Yards, listed in red, translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR.

Total QBR (listed as just QBR) is a metric created by the ESPN Stats & Information group. Total QBR is based on the expected points added by the quarterback on each play, then adjusts the numbers to a scale of 0-100. There are five main differences between Total QBR and Football Outsiders' DVOA metric (with further explanation here):

Total QBR incorporates information from game charting, such as passes dropped or thrown away on purpose.
Total QBR splits responsibility on plays between the quarterback, his receivers, and his blockers. Drops, for example, are more on the receiver, as are yards after the catch, and some sacks are more on the offensive line than others.
Total QBR has a clutch factor which adds (or subtracts) value for quarterbacks who perform best (or worst) in high-leverage situations.
Total QBR combines passing and rushing value into one number and differentiates between scrambles and planned runs.
Total QBR is not adjusted for strength of opponent.
Further information about the table below:

Code:
Passes total includes sacks and aborted snaps. Both count against a quarterback's value.
Intentional clock-stopping spikes are not counted as passes, which may cause completion rate to be different from official NFL stats.
Fumbles count the same whether lost to the defense or retained by the offense.
DPI lists the number of plays and yards where the quarterback drew Defensive Pass Interference. These plays are incorporated into DVOA, DYAR, and Total QBR, but are not included in the totals for Passes or Yards.
I like advanced metric stats, some do not. I think it is reasonable to say Eli is in decline. This becomes more acute when you consider the historical performance of QBs his age. I do not feel Eli is done, he can still play. He is 37. We were 3-13 and have the second pick. We will will have an entire new staff and system. Why not let the coach draft the perfect QB for his system. Eli plays and long as he performs better than he has the last 2 years. If he does not, we might as well start the new guy and let him take his lumps, you have to play, even Eli admits this. Then consider that Eli is a dependent QB and really always has been(I'm a big fan) We would need to build a roster and give Eli a system that perfectly suits him(then I think he could be 10-15 ranked QB but do not have the time to build that roster) I think it is wiser to build the roster and system around who we draft. Gilbride's system was perfect for Eli, it used his head and courage but needed smart recievers. If Reese drafted and signed player TC wanted, TC would still be here and eli would have looked a lot better. That didn't happen, time to move forward. The McAdoo signing and switch to a WCO was stupid at that point of Eli's career.
RE: RE: RE: he has been mediocre since hurricane sandy  
DonQuixote : 1/3/2018 11:49 pm : link
In comment 13769708 sundayatone said:
Quote:
In comment 13769638 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


In comment 13769215 sundayatone said:


Quote:


.



I believe you've said that before (if not you, someone else said the same thing). Just curious - are you attributing any of Eli's perceived decline to Hurricane Sandy itself? Or is that just a chronological marker that comes more easily to you than saying "late October 2012"?



the pitts game right after the hurricane,he was bad in the 2nd half as the giants lost a 4th quarter lead. the game victor cruz got lit up in the end zone by ryan clark.ever since then eli and the giants have been mediocre to bad.remember the falcon game after sandyhook and the baltimore no show at the end of the season,that is when the downfall started.

The human mind forms associations where none exist.
RE: FMiC  
Britt in VA : 1/4/2018 8:13 am : link
In comment 13770054 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
My post - to the extent you were referring to it - was mostly tongue in cheek as a response to Britt.

As you have noted, Eli's career is a difficult one to put into context. As a fan, I spent the better part of a decade defending his "greatness" and even now, have argued he is a HOFer when retires. I have celebrated his career and encouraged my sons to do the same through Eli shirts, posters, etc...

all that said, while he was perfect for the Giants for many years, he wasn't necessarily a consistently top QB when compared to what most consider the best of the bunch curing that stretch. His claim to fame is the 2 incredible SB runs. Without them, he maybe isn't even a Giant currently.

so despite the fact that it seems like I am some major anti-Eli crusader... what I actually am is a frustrated fan who thinks the team is in the midst of a much needed tear-down and rebuild, and I don't see the value of holding on to an older, expensive QB who doesn't necessarily excel at anything, and have us go .500 or worse for the next 2 years at the expense of developing our next QB.

I have made no definitive claims about what I know the future holds, b/c I don't. I have expressed my opinion, provided my reasoning, and peppered in some sarcastic comments along the way.

No more, no less.


Cross out the "anti", and I'm the exact same. Goes both ways.
RE: Okay, now I'm starting to find this interesting....  
regulator : 1/4/2018 8:31 am : link
In comment 13769937 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
as far as five year comparisons go.

Eli is in decline, right? Everybody is pointing to statistics from 2013 to now. Five years of mediocre play, not being able to elevate those around him, etc... Think about how different the rosters were between 2008-2012 to 2013-2017... Think about the different WR's, TE's, and level of O-line play between those two five year chunks.

Here are the numbers over those two five year blocks:

2013-2017

20155 yards, 61% completion percentage, 128 TD's, 81 INT's

2008-2012

20142 yards, 61% completion percentage, 144 TD's, 80 INT's

An unbelievable difference of only 13 yards (!!), exact same completion percentage, 16 TD's, and 1 INT

That's actually unbelievably consistent, isn't it?

Where is the decline statistically, exactly?


Worth noting that in the same periods of time, our run game and overall offensive productivity totally fell off a cliff:

Total rush yards/total offensive yards

2008 - 2518/5695
2009 - 1837/5856
2010 - 2200/6085
2011 - 1427/6161
2012 - 1862/5687

Avg - 1968.8

2013 - 1332/4920
2014 - 1603/5875
2015 - 1609/5952
2016 - 1412/5291
2017 - 1549/5028

Avg - 1501

Hardly an in-depth statistical analysis but one cannot look at Eli in a vacuum. With that said, the McAdoo era (as head coach) clearly led to a precipitous drop-off in Eli's productivity.
All these stats are great. I finally can see how great and consistent  
Jimmy Googs : 1/4/2018 8:51 am : link
Eli is actually playing since Feb 2012. Thanks so much for posting. I must have been blinded by all those big regular season wins and playoff games we have had since then.

He is simply not a winning QB for us anymore...

RE: RE: Eli Options  
Giantslifer : 1/4/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13769769 18E said:
Quote:
In comment 13769741 Giantslifer said:


Quote:


Eli has been in steady decline for years. Still fumbles and throws interceptions like a rookie.What he has is stability and supposedly a desire to learn. The question is -
Is he willing to become a mentor? If he is great. If he isn't trade /cut him.



Yeah ok. Take a walk asshole.


Hey pencildick. clean up your mouth
RE: LOL..  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2018 8:13 am : link
In comment 13770570 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
if you think you can evaluate a QB playing in a terrible system with absolutely no playmakers, then I'm fairly certain you are overestimating your abilities.

Eli the past few years is nearly the same guy as the previous few years before it, so the comment about looking for things is probably dead on - but from the other side of the coin.

He is a really tough player to evaluate because you can't definitively say he's declined because he has been stuck in an atrocious system for two years. A historically poor one.


You say its tough to evaluate him yet also seem to be very clear that in your view he is the same.

Are you answering your own question or is it really not a question...
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