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All I can tell you is what I would do if I was Giants GM. Manning is fine and right now a proven and better than any QB in this draft. So I look to trade back if I can. If I stay at 2 because I can't trade back I'm looking at drafting one of the pure Left Tackles in this draft Orlando Brown or Connor Williams. We all know with a better offensive line Manning will score more points. More points makes it easier on the Defense. If I trade back I look at best offensive lineman and worry about LB's later. I think Dave will follow this plan also, he might pick DE Chubb at 2 if he has to but I think Connor might be his pick if he stays at 2. By the time we get to the draft Orlando Brown and Connor Williams will move into the top ten. At least that’s my prediction. |
Either trade back or take a QB imo.
...and IMO it is absolutely a correct perspective, BUT FROM A SHORT TERM TACTICAL POV!!!
And for BBIers, it all comes down to what POV do you have for this upcoming Draft???
If it's short term, Boylhart's perspective makes perfect sense.
If it's long term (which is mine)... Boyhart's opinion counts for very little because the Giants ABSOLUTELY MUST take a risk in securing their long term QB this Draft:
Rosen
Darnold
Mayfield
Allen
etc.
Sure they could be back in the top five, but there might not be a QB there next year. Or the year after. Or they could put enough talent around Eli and flounder to 6-7 wins and be picking in the middle of the draft.
Not acquiring a top end QB this year could set them back a number of years.
No way you go OT at number 2 overall in this draft.
The Giants have to get maximum value out of the 2nd overall pick via selecting a player or trading down.
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Chad.Wheeler.htm
Chubb would be a great pick at 2 also.
I agree with his QB take. I’ve been saying since the middle of the college season I don’t love any of the QBs. If you don’t love a QB at 2 you shouldn’t force the issue.
Drafts are not about NEED for NOW. It's great if it works out that way, they're about building for the future.
Furthermore, any "DRAFT GURU" who simply maps a team's biggest perceived need to their first round pick is a complete amateur who doesn't understand the draft, and hasn't been paying attention to those who do -- much less what the NEW GM has already said about his philosophy -- "You can't have too many good players at a position."
If you follow this advice, you never draft Carl Banks because you already had great LBs. You never draft all the DEs cause you already had Strahan. You never draft Eli cause you already had Collins. The Packers don't draft Rodgers because they already has Favre. It goes on and on.
Hopefully there will be some OLs and LBs. Assuming Apple stays, our greatest need.
All have pretty legitimate concerns.
If I'm looking at the cleanest prospects and safest bets to be NFL blue chippers at the top of the draft, I'm afraid none of the QBs grade higher than the likes of Nelson, Chubb, Barkley or Fitzpatrick.
Obviously then you will get into the argument of positional value/draft slot and there will always be differing opinions on that.
All I know is this roster has enough question marks that I'm taking the surest blue chipper I can get, I'm much less worried about the position.
Knowing how NYG typically values positions, the only non-QBs I see them focusing on (assuming they stay at #2) would be Chubb or Fitzpatrick. I don't think you'd see Barkley or Nelson without a trade back. Not saying I totally agree with this thinking but that's my take.
The part that makes me laugh is free agency is the first place to fill needs and the draft should be about tomorrow.
I also think it is funny that many here expect NYG to cut Eli and then draft a QB and expect Webb and the rookie to fight it our for the starting position. Not every rookie QB comes in to the NFL and tears it up.
It plain makes more sense to draft the more talented prospect(s).
If Cleveland wants to get the #2 pick this year, I'd be fine with dropping to #4, if they gave us their #1 next year. That #1 would likely be a high draft choice, and combined with our #1, should give us enough ammo to get Darnold.
With the #4, we'd probably get Nelson, and we'd have next year to evaluate Webb (who will be the #2) to see if he's the guy or not...
I also think it is funny that many here expect NYG to cut Eli and then draft a QB and expect Webb and the rookie to fight it our for the starting position. Not every rookie QB comes in to the NFL and tears it up.
Neither does every 37 year old QB
Expect evaluations to change after bowl games. The consensus for the regular season has been an unspectacular class.
He also likes Chubb at 2.
As far as his LB comment, he means just not at 2. Doesn’t mean wait until round 4.
If Cleveland wants to get the #2 pick this year, I'd be fine with dropping to #4, if they gave us their #1 next year. That #1 would likely be a high draft choice, and combined with our #1, should give us enough ammo to get Darnold.
With the #4, we'd probably get Nelson, and we'd have next year to evaluate Webb (who will be the #2) to see if he's the guy or not...
You a) have no idea what happens with Darnold next year. What if you traded down this year to acquire a pick to take him next year and he has a career altering injury?
b) the pick you get might not put you in a position to take him and you might not be able to trade up.
A good read for the wait crowd:
Grass Isn't always greener - ( New Window )
But the flip side is actually more critical. If we pick the WRONG top end QB, it will set us back significantly. Eli is capable to serve as a mentor to ease in a QB, but if we waste a #2 pick and the QB turns out to be bad, we will lose Eli and have a bust manning the offense.
What I'm taking from Boylhart's comments is that he doesn't think the QB's are sure bets. That worries me.
He also likes Chubb at 2.
As far as his LB comment, he means just not at 2. Doesn’t mean wait until round 4.
The last mock I saw had both these guys in the top 5, and Nelson at #9. Don't assume preseason college publications will hold up after the combine.
And there certainly might be better options than Darnold next year. I'm confident that a Cleveland draft choice should be in the #4-#6 range or better, as that team will likely win 5 games or less. Combined with our #1, that should give the Giants enough firepower to get a Blue Chip QB.
Hell, there's no reason why Cleveland's next year #1 isn't a favorite for the #1 draft choice! They haven't changed the Head Coach...
If the #2 spot can be turned into a couple 1st rounders and higher #2, I'd do it.
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Not acquiring a top end QB this year could set them back a number of years
But the flip side is actually more critical. If we pick the WRONG top end QB, it will set us back significantly. Eli is capable to serve as a mentor to ease in a QB, but if we waste a #2 pick and the QB turns out to be bad, we will lose Eli and have a bust manning the offense.
What I'm taking from Boylhart's comments is that he doesn't think the QB's are sure bets. That worries me.
Sure they could pick the wrong QB and that sets them back. It's better to have tried then be stuck with nothing.
I never bought into Rosen and the more I see of Darnold the more he looks like Byron Leftwich to me. Mechanically Darnold is a mess...the ball spends a lot of time in one hand at waist level and/or away from his body. You could look past that if he were an exceptional thrower...but is he? I don't see that.
I still can't believe the lack of consideration given to Lamar Jackson as an option. While he isn't technically perfect either, he's sounder than Darnold and obviously a far better athlete. People are pointing to his bowl game as a bad performance, but even in a bad performance he generate 300 yards of offense and 3 touchdowns. Included in that was a 75 yard run on 3rd and long that completely flipped the game.
Jackson's athleticism is the most elite trait any of these QBs has.
I never bought into Rosen and the more I see of Darnold the more he looks like Byron Leftwich to me. Mechanically Darnold is a mess...the ball spends a lot of time in one hand at waist level and/or away from his body. You could look past that if he were an exceptional thrower...but is he? I don't see that.
I still can't believe the lack of consideration given to Lamar Jackson as an option. While he isn't technically perfect either, he's sounder than Darnold and obviously a far better athlete. People are pointing to his bowl game as a bad performance, but even in a bad performance he generate 300 yards of offense and 3 touchdowns. Included in that was a 75 yard run on 3rd and long that completely flipped the game.
Jackson's athleticism is the most elite trait any of these QBs has.
Jackson's bowl game has to be put in perspective. That offensive line may be one of the worst of any Power 5 school. His top RB is a converted QB. Their receivers make Roger Lewis look like Jerry Rice.
I'd be perfectly ok with trading back into the first or taking Jackson at 34.
You might not have the chance this year to take another QB though. If Eli is actually done, you're left with just Webb until the next draft where you're not guaranteed a QB.
It would allow us to shore up either OL or DE.
Chubb would be a great pick at 2 also.
I agree with his QB take. I’ve been saying since the middle of the college season I don’t love any of the QBs. If you don’t love a QB at 2 you shouldn’t force the issue.
Sy completely disagrees with this. He was saying in one of the threads during the game that the more he sees Brown, the further and further he slides down his board. The funny thing was while he was saying this, you were on the other thread ogling over how good Brown looked, lol.
I think Connor Williams is the best LT prospect from a technique perspective. I also think he's the worst physically of the bunch, although that he may have still been recovering from injury when I saw him. I don't think any of the tackle prospects are worth a top 10 pick. I think McGlinchey might be a better RT than LT and that Quenton Nelson is the best OL prospect.
It would allow us to shore up either OL or DE.
I agree that the trade down is the best scenario. Regarding Allen though, I think he's going to blow people away at the combine and end up #1 or #2.
Yeah and its not even close. O Brown is a right tackle at best in the NFL C Williams a better LT but not close to Nelson who is a decade worth of pro bowl appearances. I trade back and take Nelson. No way would I take one of these QBs none of them look like NFL franchise passers.
Its extremely rare. Dismissing QBs because they're not sure bets is akin to not taking the interview because you're not guaranteed the job.
...and IMO it is absolutely a correct perspective, BUT FROM A SHORT TERM TACTICAL POV!!!
And for BBIers, it all comes down to what POV do you have for this upcoming Draft???
If it's short term, Boylhart's perspective makes perfect sense.
If it's long term (which is mine)... Boyhart's opinion counts for very little because the Giants ABSOLUTELY MUST take a risk in securing their long term QB this Draft:
Rosen
Darnold
Mayfield
Allen
etc.
DG said at his presser he doesn't believe in "windows".
He's always looking long term/best for franchise.
I’m shocked at how little talk he’s gotten here. At times he gets his hands outside and will need technique work but he’s more athletic than Flowers. There are times when he looks like Tyron Smith just dominating.
If you want a big power running scheme Brown has to be in the conversation. Know nothing about Williams, never seen him.
They didn't end up getting Wentz until a few years later, and had to trade up (a lot) to get there. But look at them now....although things in the NFL change overnight (and Wentz was injured), they appear to be in good shape after giving up picks.
Giants could easily get their QB of the future next year.......and even trade up to get it.
Don't pick a QB for the sake of picking a QB unless you think he's a franchise guy.
I like Allen too.
Could learn a ton from Eli as well.
But I would imagine an offensive minded coach might be our best pick, given that.......
Furthermore, any "DRAFT GURU" who simply maps a team's biggest perceived need to their first round pick is a complete amateur who doesn't understand the draft, and hasn't been paying attention to those who do -- much less what the NEW GM has already said about his philosophy -- "You can't have too many good players at a position."
All these guys are flawed. Hell, there is no way they can learn 32 teams ways of thinking. Therefor, they just go with a team's perceived needs.
Rosen was Rivals #1 recruit coming out of HS. He is not some guy who suddenly appeared like David Carr or Jeff George.
Josh Allen's tools were talked up before the season as Elway-like.
Baker Mayfield is the one guy whose star may have risen this year but this has long been regarded as an epic year for QBs
To say that Giants fans are suddenly overvaluing the QBs because Giants have the #2 pick is absurd and based upon ignorance
Fwiw, wasn't directed specifically at you. I feel like you've shared your opinions with some thoughts more meaningful than "safe bet" I'm fine hearing people discuss these QBs legitimately, but hearing people looking for guarantees is where I tune out and assume that person just doesn't know what he's talking about.
Jackson's bowl game has to be put in perspective. That offensive line may be one of the worst of any Power 5 school. His top RB is a converted QB. Their receivers make Roger Lewis look like Jerry Rice.
I'd be perfectly ok with trading back into the first or taking Jackson at 34.
Quite a few people have already discussed drafting Barkley and then drafting Jackson after a trade-up.
I imagine such a thing is very unlikely, but holy shit would that be interesting to see unfold. Unfortunately it will probably be left to our imagination.
They didn't end up getting Wentz until a few years later, and had to trade up (a lot) to get there. But look at them now....although things in the NFL change overnight (and Wentz was injured), they appear to be in good shape after giving up picks.
Giants could easily get their QB of the future next year.......and even trade up to get it.
Don't pick a QB for the sake of picking a QB unless you think he's a franchise guy.
The Eagles didn't choose to go tackle first before QB. The draft that year chose that for them. There were zero QBs worth taking at that high a slot and instead it was the year of the tackles.
This year there are no tackles worth the #2 and, depending on their evaluation, anywhere from 1 to 4 QBs that may be worth that spot. Next year isn't supposed to be a strong draft for QBs though that can change. What can also change is the Giants draft slot and they may not be able to land a quality player next year.
I’m shocked at how little talk he’s gotten here. At times he gets his hands outside and will need technique work but he’s more athletic than Flowers. There are times when he looks like Tyron Smith just dominating.
If you want a big power running scheme Brown has to be in the conversation. Know nothing about Williams, never seen him.
I definitely see him as a run blocking asset, but is he enough of an elite pass blocker to crack the top 5 or even top 10? I didn't see it that way against Georgia but I haven't seen much of him outside of that game.
Jackson's bowl game has to be put in perspective. That offensive line may be one of the worst of any Power 5 school. His top RB is a converted QB. Their receivers make Roger Lewis look like Jerry Rice.
I'd be perfectly ok with trading back into the first or taking Jackson at 34.
It doesn't need to be put in perspective because no one should be judging any player based on one game. (There's the rare occasion in which we focus on players who're facing massive jumps from their ordinary competition like Khalil Mack versus Ohio State.) It seems like a lot of people form opinions on players based on a bowl game and maybe one or two other games they saw. That's not really a comprehensive way of analyzing prospects.
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take a tackle at three or four? Lane Johnson.
They didn't end up getting Wentz until a few years later, and had to trade up (a lot) to get there. But look at them now....although things in the NFL change overnight (and Wentz was injured), they appear to be in good shape after giving up picks.
Giants could easily get their QB of the future next year.......and even trade up to get it.
Don't pick a QB for the sake of picking a QB unless you think he's a franchise guy.
The Eagles didn't choose to go tackle first before QB. The draft that year chose that for them. There were zero QBs worth taking at that high a slot and instead it was the year of the tackles.
This year there are no tackles worth the #2 and, depending on their evaluation, anywhere from 1 to 4 QBs that may be worth that spot. Next year isn't supposed to be a strong draft for QBs though that can change. What can also change is the Giants draft slot and they may not be able to land a quality player next year.
Filth - Gotcha. I believe they had Vick and Foles, who was basically an unknown with a few starts. That was Chip Kelly's first year too. QB would have been high on his list.
But, to others' points, it might be worth trading down if you feel your QB isn't there...grab a quality player (tackle) and acquire more picks to field your roster and go for a QB next year. It can be done.
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Are beasts. I thought Brown played really well vs Georgia. Definitely fits the “hog mollies” narrative.
Chubb would be a great pick at 2 also.
I agree with his QB take. I’ve been saying since the middle of the college season I don’t love any of the QBs. If you don’t love a QB at 2 you shouldn’t force the issue.
Sy completely disagrees with this. He was saying in one of the threads during the game that the more he sees Brown, the further and further he slides down his board. The funny thing was while he was saying this, you were on the other thread ogling over how good Brown looked, lol.
I didn’t see Brown get beat in pass pro. I saw him get plenty of push in the run game. I enjoy reading SY’s stuff but he isn’t God. It’s ok to have different opinions.
Jackson is an elite athlete, no question. I had the unfortunate experience of seeing him up close in the Dome in September of '16. The problem I see with him is 1. I don't think he'll hold up in the NFL with his style and 2. Seems to get frustrated easily.
the only way this decision would work is if we still suck next year and draft high enough to take a top QB...