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Boylhart’s Take on Giants @ 2

WillVAB : 1/3/2018 11:03 am
I’ve enjoyed his profiles over the years so I decided to reach out to him to get his opinion on the Giants @ 2 this year. I know some of the board likes his stuff, so here’s his response FWIW:

Quote:
All I can tell you is what I would do if I was Giants GM. Manning is fine and right now a proven and better than any QB in this draft. So I look to trade back if I can. If I stay at 2 because I can't trade back I'm looking at drafting one of the pure Left Tackles in this draft Orlando Brown or Connor Williams. We all know with a better offensive line Manning will score more points. More points makes it easier on the Defense.

If I trade back I look at best offensive lineman and worry about LB's later.

I think Dave will follow this plan also, he might pick DE Chubb at 2 if he has to but I think Connor might be his pick if he stays at 2. By the time we get to the draft Orlando Brown and Connor Williams will move into the top ten. At least that’s my prediction.
I would be livid  
Jay on the Island : 1/3/2018 11:06 am : link
If the Giants stayed at 2, passed on all the QB’s to reach for a LT.
Yup  
Dodge : 1/3/2018 11:07 am : link
Burn everything down with that play.

Either trade back or take a QB imo.
What a horrid take..  
Sean : 1/3/2018 11:07 am : link
Trade back and draft for need? My god that is brutal & why we have Ereck Flowers instead of Todd Gurley.
To Those Who Watch College Football  
Samiam : 1/3/2018 11:09 am : link
I dont watch much but the little I saw of Orlando Brown, he reminded me of Flowers. Maybe a little better but he wasn’t going against pro speed rushers either. Certainly not a very high 1st round pick from the little I saw. Did anybody see a lot of him?
I sure hope he is wrong  
Mike from Ohio : 1/3/2018 11:09 am : link
That sounds like drafting purely on immediate need rather than taking the best prospect. When you draft this high you need to get a guy that is an impact player for years to come. If that is a LT so be it, but just drafting the best player at a specific position to me is exceptionally short sighted.
Interesting perspective...  
M.S. : 1/3/2018 11:10 am : link

...and IMO it is absolutely a correct perspective, BUT FROM A SHORT TERM TACTICAL POV!!!

And for BBIers, it all comes down to what POV do you have for this upcoming Draft???

If it's short term, Boylhart's perspective makes perfect sense.

If it's long term (which is mine)... Boyhart's opinion counts for very little because the Giants ABSOLUTELY MUST take a risk in securing their long term QB this Draft:

Rosen
Darnold
Mayfield
Allen
etc.

Nelson  
Andy in Boston : 1/3/2018 11:11 am : link
Is the best offensive lineman in this draft
If they really don't like a QB (Or if Darnold stays at USC)  
est1986 : 1/3/2018 11:16 am : link
I'd take Chubb or trade back for a future 1st and a 1st this year and take the best OL available. And yes please worry about the LB's later as opposed to totally forgetting about them like we have in the past. I do like that RB from the BX though.... thought a few recent off-season's have been crazy but shit is about to get 'real'
Neither Brown or Williams  
jeff57 : 1/3/2018 11:19 am : link
deserve to be taken at 2. Or in the top 10 for that matter.
The #2 pick is either a QB or nothing  
BillT : 1/3/2018 11:22 am : link
There is no other position that should be taken #2 other than QB and if you're not going to take one someone will pay you plenty to do so. Take the QB or take the multiple daft picks you'll get for that spot.
Maybe Eli is better right now than all the QBs in the draft  
ajr2456 : 1/3/2018 11:23 am : link
and maybe he wins the job over all of them in camp. The downside of not taking a QB is if Eli actually is done and it shows early on, now you missed your chance to take a QB.

Sure they could be back in the top five, but there might not be a QB there next year. Or the year after. Or they could put enough talent around Eli and flounder to 6-7 wins and be picking in the middle of the draft.

Not acquiring a top end QB this year could set them back a number of years.
If The Giants Can’t Find A Trade Down Partner  
Trainmaster : 1/3/2018 11:26 am : link
You draft a QB if the only player(s) in the first tier are QBs or you draft Barkley if he’s in the tier with the QBs.

No way you go OT at number 2 overall in this draft.

The Giants have to get maximum value out of the 2nd overall pick via selecting a player or trading down.
"Chubb and Club"  
Tim in JTown : 1/3/2018 11:26 am : link
Not impressed with the QB pool for a 2. Gotta be Chubb. Plus "Chubb and Club" has got a good ring to it.
Let's pump the breaks on Boylhart  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2018 11:26 am : link
He had a first round grade on Chad Wheeler and compared him to Joe Thomas.

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2017profiles/Chad.Wheeler.htm
Going to be a lot of broken TV's....  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2018 11:27 am : link
when/if the Giants pass on a QB.
Brown and Williams  
WillVAB : 1/3/2018 11:28 am : link
Are beasts. I thought Brown played really well vs Georgia. Definitely fits the “hog mollies” narrative.

Chubb would be a great pick at 2 also.

I agree with his QB take. I’ve been saying since the middle of the college season I don’t love any of the QBs. If you don’t love a QB at 2 you shouldn’t force the issue.
That's very naive advice  
David B. : 1/3/2018 11:33 am : link
From a guy who passes himself off as a draft guru.

Drafts are not about NEED for NOW. It's great if it works out that way, they're about building for the future.

Furthermore, any "DRAFT GURU" who simply maps a team's biggest perceived need to their first round pick is a complete amateur who doesn't understand the draft, and hasn't been paying attention to those who do -- much less what the NEW GM has already said about his philosophy -- "You can't have too many good players at a position."

If you follow this advice, you never draft Carl Banks because you already had great LBs. You never draft all the DEs cause you already had Strahan. You never draft Eli cause you already had Collins. The Packers don't draft Rodgers because they already has Favre. It goes on and on.



I think the strategy is sound  
Jay in Toronto : 1/3/2018 11:34 am : link
but would go with BPA when our extra picks come.

Hopefully there will be some OLs and LBs. Assuming Apple stays, our greatest need.
I think Drew  
ryanmkeane : 1/3/2018 11:43 am : link
thinks Williams is a top 5 talent and Giants would take him on his merits alone - not just because they need OL.
Boylhart  
Marty866b : 1/3/2018 11:44 am : link
Also had Matt Barkley ranked ahead of Andrew Luck. His opinion doesn't hold any more weight then our beloved posters here.
Boylhart is normally a need picker  
JonC : 1/3/2018 11:47 am : link
.
I have been fully prepared for them to select Eli's replacement...  
Chris684 : 1/3/2018 12:00 pm : link
I think problem for NYG is that these QBs are not the slam dunks they were in the NCAA preseason.

All have pretty legitimate concerns.

If I'm looking at the cleanest prospects and safest bets to be NFL blue chippers at the top of the draft, I'm afraid none of the QBs grade higher than the likes of Nelson, Chubb, Barkley or Fitzpatrick.

Obviously then you will get into the argument of positional value/draft slot and there will always be differing opinions on that.

All I know is this roster has enough question marks that I'm taking the surest blue chipper I can get, I'm much less worried about the position.

Knowing how NYG typically values positions, the only non-QBs I see them focusing on (assuming they stay at #2) would be Chubb or Fitzpatrick. I don't think you'd see Barkley or Nelson without a trade back. Not saying I totally agree with this thinking but that's my take.

Does drafting a qb at #2 make the Giants a better team?  
SterlingArcher : 1/3/2018 12:03 pm : link
How long does he have to sit behind Eli? As soon as Eli throws his first INT there will be screaming to replace him with the new qb, as soon as the new qb throws his first INT there will be screaming that he is a bust and a wasted pick.
For those who say the draft is not about need  
Rjanyg : 1/3/2018 12:12 pm : link
you haven't been watching the NFL or the draft. In an ideal world you wouldn't need any of your draft picks to come in and start day one. But in todays NFL, with salary cap restrictions, injuries and roster turnover first and second round picks are almost expected to start for the team that drafts them. So, all these draft guru's know this and try to guess what each team is going to draft and they will base it on obvious needs.

The part that makes me laugh is free agency is the first place to fill needs and the draft should be about tomorrow.

I also think it is funny that many here expect NYG to cut Eli and then draft a QB and expect Webb and the rookie to fight it our for the starting position. Not every rookie QB comes in to the NFL and tears it up.

Boylhart  
lugnut : 1/3/2018 12:13 pm : link
That shit's idiotic. Eli is good to go for...how long? Just REEEAAACH for an LT and we're good? We won't draft again this high, probably ever, and we shouldn't take a QB when ours is 37? Jesus balls.
Rj  
JonC : 1/3/2018 12:14 pm : link
Many of the better teams in the NFL disagree with you, as does decades of facts. Free agency is the first stop during the offseason, it comes before the draft. Not hard.
Oh, and  
lugnut : 1/3/2018 12:15 pm : link
"worry about LBs later." That's the mantra Jerry Reese chants every morning.
Teams want their picks to plug right in and contribute  
JonC : 1/3/2018 12:16 pm : link
but there's no guarantees they will be ABLE to, day one. Most of these kids aren't up to the task.

It plain makes more sense to draft the more talented prospect(s).
I just saw a mock draft that had 2 OT's going in the top 5  
PatersonPlank : 1/3/2018 12:17 pm : link
, Nelson at #9, and a few more in the first round. Whoever started the rumor that this wasn't a good draft for OL players may be wrong.
If Darnold goes back to school for a year  
JohnF : 1/3/2018 12:24 pm : link
Should the Giants trade back to get draft choices for next year, to get him?

If Cleveland wants to get the #2 pick this year, I'd be fine with dropping to #4, if they gave us their #1 next year. That #1 would likely be a high draft choice, and combined with our #1, should give us enough ammo to get Darnold.

With the #4, we'd probably get Nelson, and we'd have next year to evaluate Webb (who will be the #2) to see if he's the guy or not...
RE: For those who say the draft is not about need  
ajr2456 : 1/3/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13769399 Rjanyg said:
Quote:

I also think it is funny that many here expect NYG to cut Eli and then draft a QB and expect Webb and the rookie to fight it our for the starting position. Not every rookie QB comes in to the NFL and tears it up.


Neither does every 37 year old QB
RE: I just saw a mock draft that had 2 OT's going in the top 5  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2018 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13769418 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
, Nelson at #9, and a few more in the first round. Whoever started the rumor that this wasn't a good draft for OL players may be wrong.


Expect evaluations to change after bowl games. The consensus for the regular season has been an unspectacular class.
It’s not about reaching for a need  
WillVAB : 1/3/2018 12:30 pm : link
He thinks Brown and Williams will be top 10 talents after the process takes it’s course. Just because your favorite draft publications don’t have those guys as top 10 talents now doesn’t mean they aren’t legitimate top 10 guys.

He also likes Chubb at 2.

As far as his LB comment, he means just not at 2. Doesn’t mean wait until round 4.
I have been expecting Williams to rise as the top LT  
JonC : 1/3/2018 12:32 pm : link
figured he'd go to 10 in April, and Brown is huge but not seeing the clear blue chip in him.
RE: If Darnold goes back to school for a year  
ajr2456 : 1/3/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13769443 JohnF said:
Quote:
Should the Giants trade back to get draft choices for next year, to get him?

If Cleveland wants to get the #2 pick this year, I'd be fine with dropping to #4, if they gave us their #1 next year. That #1 would likely be a high draft choice, and combined with our #1, should give us enough ammo to get Darnold.

With the #4, we'd probably get Nelson, and we'd have next year to evaluate Webb (who will be the #2) to see if he's the guy or not...


You a) have no idea what happens with Darnold next year. What if you traded down this year to acquire a pick to take him next year and he has a career altering injury?

b) the pick you get might not put you in a position to take him and you might not be able to trade up.

A good read for the wait crowd:
Grass Isn't always greener - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting. Big Boylhart believer  
TMS : 1/3/2018 12:34 pm : link
who subscribed for many years. He does his homework looking at film etc. He has hit a lot more than he has missed IMO.
I..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 12:38 pm : link
keep seeing iterations of this posted frequently lately:

Quote:
Not acquiring a top end QB this year could set them back a number of years


But the flip side is actually more critical. If we pick the WRONG top end QB, it will set us back significantly. Eli is capable to serve as a mentor to ease in a QB, but if we waste a #2 pick and the QB turns out to be bad, we will lose Eli and have a bust manning the offense.

What I'm taking from Boylhart's comments is that he doesn't think the QB's are sure bets. That worries me.
RE: It’s not about reaching for a need  
PatersonPlank : 1/3/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13769463 WillVAB said:
Quote:
He thinks Brown and Williams will be top 10 talents after the process takes it’s course. Just because your favorite draft publications don’t have those guys as top 10 talents now doesn’t mean they aren’t legitimate top 10 guys.

He also likes Chubb at 2.

As far as his LB comment, he means just not at 2. Doesn’t mean wait until round 4.


The last mock I saw had both these guys in the top 5, and Nelson at #9. Don't assume preseason college publications will hold up after the combine.
You can have injuries anytime  
JohnF : 1/3/2018 12:42 pm : link
including practice. Remember Teddy Bridgewater?

And there certainly might be better options than Darnold next year. I'm confident that a Cleveland draft choice should be in the #4-#6 range or better, as that team will likely win 5 games or less. Combined with our #1, that should give the Giants enough firepower to get a Blue Chip QB.

Hell, there's no reason why Cleveland's next year #1 isn't a favorite for the #1 draft choice! They haven't changed the Head Coach...
I find myself wanting to make a disclaimer about Boylhart.  
TC : 1/3/2018 12:42 pm : link
He's eccentric, sometimes wildly wrong, but also sometimes right. But in this I generally share some of his opinion. I think Eli can go another season, Webb may or may not have potential, (Under McAdoofus we can't know.) there will still be QB's in future drafts, and I don't see any sure-fire QB prospects in this one. Collectively among top QB classes they look middle of the pack.

If the #2 spot can be turned into a couple 1st rounders and higher #2, I'd do it.
RE: I..  
ajr2456 : 1/3/2018 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13769488 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
keep seeing iterations of this posted frequently lately:



Quote:


Not acquiring a top end QB this year could set them back a number of years



But the flip side is actually more critical. If we pick the WRONG top end QB, it will set us back significantly. Eli is capable to serve as a mentor to ease in a QB, but if we waste a #2 pick and the QB turns out to be bad, we will lose Eli and have a bust manning the offense.

What I'm taking from Boylhart's comments is that he doesn't think the QB's are sure bets. That worries me.


Sure they could pick the wrong QB and that sets them back. It's better to have tried then be stuck with nothing.
FMIC  
Go Terps : 1/3/2018 12:51 pm : link
Exactly. I think some people are inflating the QB prospects because the timing (picking #2 + Eli's age) lines up for us. But just because the timing lines up doesn't mean the quarterbacks are good.

I never bought into Rosen and the more I see of Darnold the more he looks like Byron Leftwich to me. Mechanically Darnold is a mess...the ball spends a lot of time in one hand at waist level and/or away from his body. You could look past that if he were an exceptional thrower...but is he? I don't see that.

I still can't believe the lack of consideration given to Lamar Jackson as an option. While he isn't technically perfect either, he's sounder than Darnold and obviously a far better athlete. People are pointing to his bowl game as a bad performance, but even in a bad performance he generate 300 yards of offense and 3 touchdowns. Included in that was a 75 yard run on 3rd and long that completely flipped the game.

Jackson's athleticism is the most elite trait any of these QBs has.
Boylhart is clueless  
Peppers : 1/3/2018 12:52 pm : link
You’re wasting your time reading his shit.
ajr  
Go Terps : 1/3/2018 12:52 pm : link
We wouldn't be stuck with nothing. We'd draft another player and still have Eli Manning.
RE: FMIC  
ajr2456 : 1/3/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13769541 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Exactly. I think some people are inflating the QB prospects because the timing (picking #2 + Eli's age) lines up for us. But just because the timing lines up doesn't mean the quarterbacks are good.

I never bought into Rosen and the more I see of Darnold the more he looks like Byron Leftwich to me. Mechanically Darnold is a mess...the ball spends a lot of time in one hand at waist level and/or away from his body. You could look past that if he were an exceptional thrower...but is he? I don't see that.

I still can't believe the lack of consideration given to Lamar Jackson as an option. While he isn't technically perfect either, he's sounder than Darnold and obviously a far better athlete. People are pointing to his bowl game as a bad performance, but even in a bad performance he generate 300 yards of offense and 3 touchdowns. Included in that was a 75 yard run on 3rd and long that completely flipped the game.

Jackson's athleticism is the most elite trait any of these QBs has.


Jackson's bowl game has to be put in perspective. That offensive line may be one of the worst of any Power 5 school. His top RB is a converted QB. Their receivers make Roger Lewis look like Jerry Rice.

I'd be perfectly ok with trading back into the first or taking Jackson at 34.
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 1/3/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13769547 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We wouldn't be stuck with nothing. We'd draft another player and still have Eli Manning.


You might not have the chance this year to take another QB though. If Eli is actually done, you're left with just Webb until the next draft where you're not guaranteed a QB.
My preference..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2018 12:56 pm : link
would be to trade down and take Jackson or Allen.

It would allow us to shore up either OL or DE.
RE: Brown and Williams  
BigBlueShock : 1/3/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13769268 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Are beasts. I thought Brown played really well vs Georgia. Definitely fits the “hog mollies” narrative.

Chubb would be a great pick at 2 also.

I agree with his QB take. I’ve been saying since the middle of the college season I don’t love any of the QBs. If you don’t love a QB at 2 you shouldn’t force the issue.

Sy completely disagrees with this. He was saying in one of the threads during the game that the more he sees Brown, the further and further he slides down his board. The funny thing was while he was saying this, you were on the other thread ogling over how good Brown looked, lol.
I disagree with pretty much everything he says here.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/3/2018 12:57 pm : link
First of all, Eli Manning is 37 years-old. How long can we realistically expect him to play for if we choose to build around him? And to be honest, no one with a brain is expecting a drafted QB to be better than Eli in 2018 nor would anyone with a brain let that be a part of their decision-making process. Boylhart's entire thought process seems to omit the reality of what stage Eli is at in his career.

I think Connor Williams is the best LT prospect from a technique perspective. I also think he's the worst physically of the bunch, although that he may have still been recovering from injury when I saw him. I don't think any of the tackle prospects are worth a top 10 pick. I think McGlinchey might be a better RT than LT and that Quenton Nelson is the best OL prospect.
RE: My preference..  
Go Terps : 1/3/2018 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13769565 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
would be to trade down and take Jackson or Allen.

It would allow us to shore up either OL or DE.


I agree that the trade down is the best scenario. Regarding Allen though, I think he's going to blow people away at the combine and end up #1 or #2.
Don't know about the top two picks,  
GiantFilthy : 1/3/2018 1:01 pm : link
but I agree with Allen being one of the top two QBs taken after tearing up the combine and pro day.
I don't understand people looking for a "sure bet".  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2018 1:05 pm : link
Who are the quarterbacks who were described as sure bets? There's rarely ever such a thing. Maybe every ten years.
When was the last one?  
GiantFilthy : 1/3/2018 1:08 pm : link
Luck? Before that, Elway?
RE: Nelson  
sharpshooter66 : 1/3/2018 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13769225 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
Is the best offensive lineman in this draft



Yeah and its not even close. O Brown is a right tackle at best in the NFL C Williams a better LT but not close to Nelson who is a decade worth of pro bowl appearances. I trade back and take Nelson. No way would I take one of these QBs none of them look like NFL franchise passers.
Luck  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2018 1:10 pm : link
And people are going to say with hindsight that 04 was another time, but that wasn't the case either.

Its extremely rare. Dismissing QBs because they're not sure bets is akin to not taking the interview because you're not guaranteed the job.
Ten Ton  
Go Terps : 1/3/2018 1:12 pm : link
No one is a sure bet. What I'm saying is I don't think Rosen and Darnold are as good as advertised. I'm not sure I'd consider either a first rounder.
I agree about Allen being a top two pick  
bceagle05 : 1/3/2018 1:20 pm : link
and I kinda hope its #2 to the New York Giants.
RE: Interesting perspective...  
BillKo : 1/3/2018 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13769224 M.S. said:
Quote:

...and IMO it is absolutely a correct perspective, BUT FROM A SHORT TERM TACTICAL POV!!!

And for BBIers, it all comes down to what POV do you have for this upcoming Draft???

If it's short term, Boylhart's perspective makes perfect sense.

If it's long term (which is mine)... Boyhart's opinion counts for very little because the Giants ABSOLUTELY MUST take a risk in securing their long term QB this Draft:

Rosen
Darnold
Mayfield
Allen
etc.


DG said at his presser he doesn't believe in "windows".

He's always looking long term/best for franchise.
I agree with him  
Powerclean765 : 1/3/2018 1:36 pm : link
RE: Orlando Brown

I’m shocked at how little talk he’s gotten here. At times he gets his hands outside and will need technique work but he’s more athletic than Flowers. There are times when he looks like Tyron Smith just dominating.

If you want a big power running scheme Brown has to be in the conversation. Know nothing about Williams, never seen him.
Didn't the Eagles...  
BillKo : 1/3/2018 1:36 pm : link
take a tackle at three or four? Lane Johnson.

They didn't end up getting Wentz until a few years later, and had to trade up (a lot) to get there. But look at them now....although things in the NFL change overnight (and Wentz was injured), they appear to be in good shape after giving up picks.

Giants could easily get their QB of the future next year.......and even trade up to get it.

Don't pick a QB for the sake of picking a QB unless you think he's a franchise guy.
RE: I agree about Allen being a top two pick  
BillKo : 1/3/2018 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13769647 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
and I kinda hope its #2 to the New York Giants.


I like Allen too.

Could learn a ton from Eli as well.

But I would imagine an offensive minded coach might be our best pick, given that.......

RE: That's very naive advice  
mrvax : 1/3/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13769276 David B. said:
Quote:

Furthermore, any "DRAFT GURU" who simply maps a team's biggest perceived need to their first round pick is a complete amateur who doesn't understand the draft, and hasn't been paying attention to those who do -- much less what the NEW GM has already said about his philosophy -- "You can't have too many good players at a position."


All these guys are flawed. Hell, there is no way they can learn 32 teams ways of thinking. Therefor, they just go with a team's perceived needs.
This was touted as a great QB class long before the season  
Vanzetti : 1/3/2018 1:45 pm : link
Darnold had a great season last year and was the consensus #1 pick before the season began.
Rosen was Rivals #1 recruit coming out of HS. He is not some guy who suddenly appeared like David Carr or Jeff George.

Josh Allen's tools were talked up before the season as Elway-like.

Baker Mayfield is the one guy whose star may have risen this year but this has long been regarded as an epic year for QBs

To say that Giants fans are suddenly overvaluing the QBs because Giants have the #2 pick is absurd and based upon ignorance
RE: Ten Ton  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2018 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13769625 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No one is a sure bet. What I'm saying is I don't think Rosen and Darnold are as good as advertised. I'm not sure I'd consider either a first rounder.


Fwiw, wasn't directed specifically at you. I feel like you've shared your opinions with some thoughts more meaningful than "safe bet" I'm fine hearing people discuss these QBs legitimately, but hearing people looking for guarantees is where I tune out and assume that person just doesn't know what he's talking about.
RE: RE: FMIC  
santacruzom : 1/3/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13769555 ajr2456 said:
Quote:


Jackson's bowl game has to be put in perspective. That offensive line may be one of the worst of any Power 5 school. His top RB is a converted QB. Their receivers make Roger Lewis look like Jerry Rice.

I'd be perfectly ok with trading back into the first or taking Jackson at 34.


Quite a few people have already discussed drafting Barkley and then drafting Jackson after a trade-up.

I imagine such a thing is very unlikely, but holy shit would that be interesting to see unfold. Unfortunately it will probably be left to our imagination.
My preference would be to pass on both  
YAJ2112 : 1/3/2018 1:55 pm : link
Darnold and Rosen. I'm fine with Mayfield, Allen, or even Jackson.
RE: Didn't the Eagles...  
GiantFilthy : 1/3/2018 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13769693 BillKo said:
Quote:
take a tackle at three or four? Lane Johnson.

They didn't end up getting Wentz until a few years later, and had to trade up (a lot) to get there. But look at them now....although things in the NFL change overnight (and Wentz was injured), they appear to be in good shape after giving up picks.

Giants could easily get their QB of the future next year.......and even trade up to get it.

Don't pick a QB for the sake of picking a QB unless you think he's a franchise guy.

The Eagles didn't choose to go tackle first before QB. The draft that year chose that for them. There were zero QBs worth taking at that high a slot and instead it was the year of the tackles.

This year there are no tackles worth the #2 and, depending on their evaluation, anywhere from 1 to 4 QBs that may be worth that spot. Next year isn't supposed to be a strong draft for QBs though that can change. What can also change is the Giants draft slot and they may not be able to land a quality player next year.
RE: I agree with him  
santacruzom : 1/3/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13769691 Powerclean765 said:
Quote:
RE: Orlando Brown

I’m shocked at how little talk he’s gotten here. At times he gets his hands outside and will need technique work but he’s more athletic than Flowers. There are times when he looks like Tyron Smith just dominating.

If you want a big power running scheme Brown has to be in the conversation. Know nothing about Williams, never seen him.


I definitely see him as a run blocking asset, but is he enough of an elite pass blocker to crack the top 5 or even top 10? I didn't see it that way against Georgia but I haven't seen much of him outside of that game.
RE: RE: FMIC  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/3/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13769555 ajr2456 said:
Quote:

Jackson's bowl game has to be put in perspective. That offensive line may be one of the worst of any Power 5 school. His top RB is a converted QB. Their receivers make Roger Lewis look like Jerry Rice.

I'd be perfectly ok with trading back into the first or taking Jackson at 34.


It doesn't need to be put in perspective because no one should be judging any player based on one game. (There's the rare occasion in which we focus on players who're facing massive jumps from their ordinary competition like Khalil Mack versus Ohio State.) It seems like a lot of people form opinions on players based on a bowl game and maybe one or two other games they saw. That's not really a comprehensive way of analyzing prospects.
There is only one question  
oldutican : 1/3/2018 2:07 pm : link
and that is whether a winning QB is available with the 2nd pick. If there is, it would be malpractice not to take him. If not, then all options are open.
RE: RE: Didn't the Eagles...  
BillKo : 1/3/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13769747 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
In comment 13769693 BillKo said:


Quote:


take a tackle at three or four? Lane Johnson.

They didn't end up getting Wentz until a few years later, and had to trade up (a lot) to get there. But look at them now....although things in the NFL change overnight (and Wentz was injured), they appear to be in good shape after giving up picks.

Giants could easily get their QB of the future next year.......and even trade up to get it.

Don't pick a QB for the sake of picking a QB unless you think he's a franchise guy.


The Eagles didn't choose to go tackle first before QB. The draft that year chose that for them. There were zero QBs worth taking at that high a slot and instead it was the year of the tackles.

This year there are no tackles worth the #2 and, depending on their evaluation, anywhere from 1 to 4 QBs that may be worth that spot. Next year isn't supposed to be a strong draft for QBs though that can change. What can also change is the Giants draft slot and they may not be able to land a quality player next year.


Filth - Gotcha. I believe they had Vick and Foles, who was basically an unknown with a few starts. That was Chip Kelly's first year too. QB would have been high on his list.

But, to others' points, it might be worth trading down if you feel your QB isn't there...grab a quality player (tackle) and acquire more picks to field your roster and go for a QB next year. It can be done.
RE: RE: Brown and Williams  
WillVAB : 1/3/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13769566 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13769268 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Are beasts. I thought Brown played really well vs Georgia. Definitely fits the “hog mollies” narrative.

Chubb would be a great pick at 2 also.

I agree with his QB take. I’ve been saying since the middle of the college season I don’t love any of the QBs. If you don’t love a QB at 2 you shouldn’t force the issue.


Sy completely disagrees with this. He was saying in one of the threads during the game that the more he sees Brown, the further and further he slides down his board. The funny thing was while he was saying this, you were on the other thread ogling over how good Brown looked, lol.


I didn’t see Brown get beat in pass pro. I saw him get plenty of push in the run game. I enjoy reading SY’s stuff but he isn’t God. It’s ok to have different opinions.
Darnold seems like  
RollBlue : 1/3/2018 3:15 pm : link
a gamer to me. Looks to me like he can make every throw, is mobile and tough. The fumbles are a concern. Personally, I think he has the best chance of making it in New York, given how he seems to handle/conduct himself.
Jackson is an elite athlete, no question. I had the unfortunate experience of seeing him up close in the Dome in September of '16. The problem I see with him is 1. I don't think he'll hold up in the NFL with his style and 2. Seems to get frustrated easily.
Don’t care what Boylhart thinks  
Earl the goat : 1/3/2018 3:54 pm : link
But Orlando Brown will drop to late first or early second and he will be a RT in NFL. He doesn’t have the feet for a LT
RE: I would be livid  
Jersey55 : 1/4/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13769212 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If the Giants stayed at 2, passed on all the QB’s to reach for a LT.


the only way this decision would work is if we still suck next year and draft high enough to take a top QB...
RE: Oh, and  
Jersey55 : 1/4/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 13769409 lugnut said:
Quote:
"worry about LBs later." That's the mantra Jerry Reese chants every morning.
and because of this kind of Jerry Reese thinking we never have any good LBers....
Can Eli play better if they improve the O-line?  
Torrag : 1/4/2018 11:26 am : link
Sure, but he isn't quite the same guy he was when he was younger and that clock only runs one way. The smart move, for the long term health and success of the franchise, is to draft his successor at #2. I'm hoping it's Darnold as I believe his all around skillset and demeanor fits here and he'll be the best QB out of this draft in a couple of years.
taking a QB in round 1 at pick 2 would be a mistake  
Jersey55 : 1/4/2018 4:39 pm : link
just to take one because you need one, at the #2 pick the guy has to be the right one or you move on to the right valued player because you can't have too much talented players, maybe Gettleman can find us a good QB after round 1..
ELI will outperform any QB in this draft next year.  
TMS : 1/5/2018 2:47 pm : link
DG knows that so forget this developmental QB BS. Look for a instant starter with the 2nd pick (not a QB) or a slew of draft picks if we trade down. WE had a lot of injured guys who will be back next year (OBJ etc). The year before ,when healthy, we were 11/5 and in the playoffs. The future is now and a quick turnaround is very possible. MO
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