So, both players are officially coming out and will be in the draft.
Forget the Browns for a second - assume they take Saquon Barkley and both of these QB's are sitting on the board @ 2.
Go on record and pick your guy.
(I already know several posters will want to say "neither, draft Chubb/Brown" - that's not really the point here, though)
From a pure talent standpoint, I think Josh Rosen looks like the better player. His accuracy could be better in some spots, but the arm is there to make every NFL throw. The mechanics are smooth and NFL-ready.
However, the durability worries me - he could be a couple of concussions away from a really short NFL career.
Some of the "bad teammate" stuff is also slightly worrisome. I don't know how much of a big deal it really is, but it's something to at least keep an eye on.
Darnold isn't quite as gifted, but he's not far behind. With Darnold, I can see that Eli-esque intangible factor. I just have a feeling Darnold is going to be one of those guys who winds up coming through in a lot of big spots. I love his drive.
Darnold has also displayed terrific accuracy. He just seems like a guy who has the "IT" factor.
I'm on record as really liking Lamar Jackson - and I find Allen intriguing - but I definitely do not see NYG taking Jackson and I'm not sure Allen will be in play for them either.
But if I'm looking at Rosen and Darnold, Darnold is the guy - and if that's who we take, I'll be 100% behind it.
In 2017 the debate will be Rosen vs Allen.
Allen has the sick arm talent. Hes very athletic. He's bigger and probably more durable. I'll go Allen at 1 then Rosen at 2.
Giants work hard to trade down.
Darnold is tough, good body, good arm, old school. But nimble outside of the pocket. If you think you can get his decision making better - and maybe tweak his motion a bit - then he seems a real solid choice...
So I want to go Rosen but have a feeling Darnold is the better gym rat.
But I won’t complain if Rosen is the choice.
I still wouldn’t rule out Allen. I keep saying it to all that will listen...he will light up the Combine. It’ll be a battle for the silver because he’s going to kill all the metrics...
Darnold had a terrible offensive system and a horrible OL. Yes, the Giants have a horrible OL too but lets hope they address that soon. I love his demeanor and his ability to make plays out of nothing using his athleticism.
Darnold over Rosen
I don't think Darnold is a 2nd round talent, though. I doubt the Jets would pass on him if he was still on the board @ 6.
I like Rosen the player a little more than Darnold, I just question whether or not he wants it as badly as he should - but I'm not in the guy's head, so what do I know.
Darnold threw 13 INTs in 14 games this year. Rosen threw 10 INTs in 11 games. So do you want neither "turnover machine?"
If no further info is possible....I like the "it" factor, HS LB toughness of Darnold
Rosen concussions, teammates and poor record offers too many red flags to be picked @2
Don't just READ about him. Go watch videos of him throwing on YT. And watch what his former coach, Jim Mora says about him (and Darnold) a day or two ago.
His concussions don't bother me if he clears medical.
That said, I'd be OK with Darnold, too. But he's a different type of QB, and less ready right now. That's also fine. I don't want either guy to play immediately. I want them to sit behind Eli.
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I take Rosen. I don't even consider the turnover machine whom doesn't take snaps under center. Tired of the scholarship mentality.
Darnold threw 13 INTs in 14 games this year. Rosen threw 10 INTs in 11 games. So do you want neither "turnover machine?"
And how many fumbles? The other night it seemed he put it on the turf or in the opponents hand at least every quarter. Perhaps, he needs to work on his grip strength?
ACL injuries and head injuries are much different animals.
I don't think it's something that should just get totally swept under the rug.
I wouldn't let it be the reason I didn't draft him if I felt strongly enough about him as a player, but it's absolutely worth mentioning.
If you trust the 2016 version, and give it more weight, then you land on Darnold fairly comfortably.
If you think 2017 is more of a reflection of Darnold’s game resorting to the mean, then you have reason to bail and go Rosen.
There are reasons to trust the 2016 version because the oline was better. There are reasons to trust the 2017 version because there was head scratching interceptions that could have been avoided and balll security got worse.
But I'd go Darnold because of that. I think they're close enough that he doesn't have the issues and I think he can work on being more consistent as he works behind Eli.
That said, I would take Jackson and Allen over Darnold. They are the two guys with elite traits.
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In comment 13770507 Diver_Down said:
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I take Rosen. I don't even consider the turnover machine whom doesn't take snaps under center. Tired of the scholarship mentality.
Darnold threw 13 INTs in 14 games this year. Rosen threw 10 INTs in 11 games. So do you want neither "turnover machine?"
And how many fumbles? The other night it seemed he put it on the turf or in the opponents hand at least every quarter. Perhaps, he needs to work on his grip strength?
Another poster mentioned on the other Darnold thread that he had 8 fumbles last season so he accounted for 21 turnovers in 14 games. And he needs a year scholarship to boot to learn to take a snap under center. I'm not sure why we should stand pat at 2 to draft this guy. DG should trade up to 1 to secure the rights to draft Sammy.
That said, I would take Jackson and Allen over Darnold. They are the two guys with elite traits.
I don’t watch a ton of college football, but was listening to Russo today who said Jackson looked completely overwhelmed against all the better defenses he faced this season.
What’s not to like about Darnold
He is big strong,a very good athlete , competitive and has a quick release (despite a long throwing motion)
Darnold is a god runner and throws better outside the pocket If you prefer a West Coast style offense Darnold is the QB
However after watching Rosen, as a pocket passer, it is not close
Rosen is a special talent
He makes all the throws and throws the receiver open
He has the best collegiate arm I have seen since Andrew Luck
Rosen also played in a pro style offense and is comfortable under center
He is already a talented ball handler
If you like a prototypical pocket passer Rosen is the one
If I remember correctly, he lost his top 3 WR's and 3 of his linemen - his RB is also a converted QB.
He had a forgettable bowl game throwing the football - he's a guy who really needs the right coaches. But I still love the talent.
My bigger worry about Rosen is the fact that he missed half the season in 2016 and another 2 games this year, and has a concussion history.
I would be fine if the Giants picked Rosen at #2, but I think there is a higher likelihood he has a short and injury marred career.
That said, I would take Jackson and Allen over Darnold. They are the two guys with elite traits.
Being a thoughtful guy who isn't afraid to express his views makes him a clown?
This place...
A whiny little bitch.
It seems that to be successful,
Rosen has to stay healthy. Nothing else.
Darnold has to (1) learn to take a snap from center, (2) learn to drop back, (3) fix his footwork, (4) read defenses, (5) hold the ball differently, (6) change his throwing motion.
Too many potential points of failure for Darnold. It just seems that the odds of Rosen staying healthy are much greater than Darnold fixing all of his issues (and he has to stay healthy too). So I'd go Rosen.
Rosen has a much better arm, with more accuracy. Phil Simms a few years back that throwing is the most important trait. Most say that Darnold has "it", whatever that is, and however you measure it, but being a gamer in college is not enough IMO.
Rosen durability concern and off the field question marks scare off the Giants. They either...
Giants trade up for Allen. Or out of 2 for more picks.
There is a bunch of other injuries as well, and he looks thin and fragile. not doubting his toughness in the pocket. just a body that looks easy to hurt.
The other thing is Rosen rubs me the wrong way. he reminds me of Cutler. Tons of arm talent, but an unlikable type. I don't know if he would make it in NY. Don't scoff. When the NY media and fans get on him, it can make some people go in the tank. I know most of these millenials are entitled, but he seems a little extra.
Darnold, I love his toughness and will. I didn't think he was particularly accurate though, and that may not ever change. The other thing that bothered me was i thought he really lacked poise. Looked like a deer in headlights against Ohio. And terrible decision making.
I am aware the Oline was bad and the DL he was facing was good, but that is life in the NFL. He may turn out to be a good QB, but IMO he really should have stayed in school. Kid needs to play more, and he is not ready for the NFL.
The thing that bothers me about both of these prospects is that they both played signifigantly worse this year, when expectations were higher.
They will probably go 1/2 in the draft. My preference is for neither tho. I don't think either is a franchise QB. If i had to pick one I guess it would be Darnold. He has health and the build and seems like more of a football player. I think he would work hard and be a good teamate. I just don't know if he will be a good pro QB.
Rosen durability concern and off the field question marks scare off the Giants. They either...
Giants trade up for Allen. Or out of 2 for more picks.
Don't see Allen going before Rosen or Darnold, so a trade down seems more likely.
I love the skillset - I just haven't watched enough of him and feel that he's difficult to evaluate because of where he played and who he played against.
I also know that he had a really hard time against some stronger competition. He turned the ball over like 6 times against Nebraska which was the only Power5 team he played against in his college career, IIRC.
Some of the throws I've seen him make on the run were insane. The arm is absolutely undeniable - but there are definitely some question marks there.
Nah. They'll just give Rosen's dad a call.
I really really hope he ends up on the Giants.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be excited with Rosen as well but I prefer Sam. Who would’ve thought the most important win for the Giants this year would actually be by the Colts. So huge to get that second pick.
I would love a trade down as the Giant's have a number of needs.
If I had to pick one. It would be Rosen if he checks out medically.
Allen will be there with the other 2, he could go #1 overall, you never know.
Marino's senior year was a bust, that is why he dropped ...
Mayfield and Jackson are still the QBs I like best. Allen is too boom or bust for me. Has the physical tools but I've read some scouts just eviscerate him.
IMO because football is the consummate team game and a QBs college stats (good or bad) don't always do a representative job of indicating their true NFL potential
In college, offensive scheme and surrounding talent tend to have more of an impact on passing stats than individual QB ability. And Allen was severely disadvantaged in both scheme and talent at Wyoming.
But when you watch the games (you can find them on youtube) Allen's physical traits and skillset completely jump out at you. You also see how weak his skill players were and the insane number of drops they had.
Who knows how Allen (or any of them) will do making pre-snap reads and adjustments in the NFL (which is more important than any other single trait in a QB imo) but he checks off almost every other box.
I don't care how talented a pocket passer or sweet his throwing motion is, 2 games lost due to concussion in one season PLUS a prior shoulder surgery; no thanks on Rosen.
If a QB is picked at 2nd overall, he needs to be a multiple contract QB, not a fragile, rich kid who will bail from the NFL after a few seasons (which is my concern with Rosen).
Mayfield and Jackson are still the QBs I like best. Allen is too boom or bust for me. Has the physical tools but I've read some scouts just eviscerate him.
Ditto on the Jeff George comparison. You watch Rosen and it’s easy to fall in love with that million dollar arm but I worry about the 10 cent head. Does he have the intangibles? Can he lead and inspire? Can he put the team on his back in the waning moments of the game and win? I don’t know.
The whole drafting a QB scares me. It’s high risk/high reward.
Rosen is more of a prototypical NFL QB of years past. He's not a good athlete and doesn't have a thick body, but he should be able to grow into a player like Eli or Tom Brady physically. His strength is elite arm talent. I like that he's able to vary his throws so that not everything is 100 MPH Cam Newton-style. His arm is so good that it's gotten him out of quite a bit of trouble when he's locked onto receivers or made poor decisions throwing the ball. Defenders in some cases simply don't have enough time to react because the ball is past them. I think Jared Goff is a solid comparison, although Goff was a slightly better athlete and Rosen has a better arm. I think the same could be said of Rosen and Matt Ryan.
Rosen is more of a prototypical NFL QB of years past. He's not a good athlete and doesn't have a thick body, but he should be able to grow into a player like Eli or Tom Brady physically. His strength is elite arm talent. I like that he's able to vary his throws so that not everything is 100 MPH Cam Newton-style. His arm is so good that it's gotten him out of quite a bit of trouble when he's locked onto receivers or made poor decisions throwing the ball. Defenders in some cases simply don't have enough time to react because the ball is past them. I think Jared Goff is a solid comparison, although Goff was a slightly better athlete and Rosen has a better arm. I think the same could be said of Rosen and Matt Ryan.
stop it man... Darnold is a turnover machine, hes nothing like Luck other than he's white and plays in california
I really really hope he ends up on the Giants.
you understand that on average College QBs lose between 5-8% on their completion % from CFB to pros? people have done studies on this.
H'es not even a proven QB... he's a fucking TE.
Guys who have had questionable accuracy issues have not fared well recently in the NFL. See Locker... see Hackenberg.
Rosen is too much of an oddball and Allen's accuracy is suspect.
Let's hope Cleveland blows it just as the 'Aints blew it in '81 selecting Rogers ahead of LT...leaving us the top QB to secure the future of the franchise.
One of the professional talent evaluators (don't remember which one) described Rosen as Peyton Manning with a better arm. If true, who wouldn't sign up for that?
Both Rodgers and Big Ben have missed significant playing time in their careers. Ben's off-the-field issues not withstanding... would you not take either of those QBs if they were available this year, even if you knew they were going to miss some games at some point?
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but Rosen's injuries are a big issue. We're at the top every year with injuries (except last year) and with the 2nd pick we're taking someone with a history. No thank you!
Both Rodgers and Big Ben have missed significant playing time in their careers. Ben's off-the-field issues not withstanding... would you not take either of those QBs if they were available this year, even if you knew they were going to miss some games at some point?
That's Hindsight taking either one. What I don't like is Rosen's injury history and that's well documented.
One of the professional talent evaluators (don't remember which one) described Rosen as Peyton Manning with a better arm. If true, who wouldn't sign up for that?
Peyton Manning? Haha, sorry but whoever said that is full of it.
You need to do a lot of projecting with Darnold, you don't need to do any with Rosen. And it's not like it's because Rosen has already peaked. He will continue to get better at his craft. And I think a year or two in the weight room (while Eli leads Big Blue to another Super Bowl or two) will make his injury history irrelevant to its future probability.
As for Rosen's so-called personality issues: as best I can tell the main thing is that he's pretentious. He puts a high value on intelligence and he likes to show off by giving longwinded answers to simple questions and using big words where little words are probably more appropriate (i.e., "affluent" instead of "wealthy" or "rich"). It can be annoying, but it's not the end of the world.
And being a show-off is probably part of what drives him to be as good as he is and it will continue to drive him to get better and better. In that sense, it's something that he has in common with OBJ. They love the attention and are motivated to be the best by it.
p.s.--And everybody talks about how Rosen's parents were both super-smart (he a surgeon, she a journalist), but they both also excelled at sports. His father was a nationally ranked ice skater who almost qualified for the Winter Olympics and his mother was the captain of the Princeton lacrosse team. Rosen himself was a nationally ranked tennis player in the under-12 youth division. So the intelligence, the athletic ability, the work ethic, and the competitiveness are clearly in his genes and expressed themselves at an early age.
You need to do a lot of projecting with Darnold, you don't need to do any with Rosen. And it's not like it's because Rosen has already peaked. He will continue to get better at his craft. And I think a year or two in the weight room (while Eli leads Big Blue to another Super Bowl or two) will make his injury history irrelevant to its future probability.
As for Rosen's so-called personality issues: as best I can tell the main thing is that he's pretentious. He puts a high value on intelligence and he likes to show off by giving longwinded answers to simple questions and using big words where little words are probably more appropriate (i.e., "affluent" instead of "wealthy" or "rich"). It can be annoying, but it's not the end of the world.
And being a show-off is probably part of what drives him to be as good as he is and it will continue to drive him to get better and better. In that sense, it's something that he has in common with OBJ. They love the attention and are motivated to be the best by it.
p.s.--And everybody talks about how Rosen's parents were both super-smart (he a surgeon, she a journalist), but they both also excelled at sports. His father was a nationally ranked ice skater who almost qualified for the Winter Olympics and his mother was the captain of the Princeton lacrosse team. Rosen himself was a nationally ranked tennis player in the under-12 youth division. So the intelligence, the athletic ability, the work ethic, and the competitiveness are clearly in his genes and expressed themselves at an early age.
Personality doesn’t worry me, but injuries do. I read he hasn’t finished in 12 of his last 20 starts? Concussions? Small build. Yikes!
Also, no QB drafted #2 is sitting behind Eli. Not happening.
Also, no QB drafted #2 is sitting behind Eli. Not happening.
The questions with him are his ability to stay healthy and also some of the weird rumblings that he's not well liked by teammates. The other stuff doesn't worry me. He's a very cerebral player, like a Rodgers or either Manning. It's not surprising that he pushes back on coaches.
I can definitely see a path where his personality/durability could cause some problems for his career. That stuff may be overblown though. But, I have no doubt he's a starting NFL QB
Played in the same confrence as Rosen.
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Also, no QB drafted #2 is sitting behind Eli. Not happening.
Why not? Eli will start the season. It's up to him to be productive enough to hold onto his job. I think he will because I'm expecting the Giants to be good next year, assuming they avoid the injury bug.
One year max, possibly just part of the pick's rookie year, definitely not two full years. Why not? Because you don't piss away half of a young franchise QB's rookie contract which is when you can build a deep and talented roster without having a $20MM+ cap number at QB.
That's not a knock against Eli, mind you. That's just roster construction and cap economics. That Eli will be 38 going on 39 in the final season of his contract and would represent a $17MM cap savings if cut after 2018 only reinforces that next season would be Eli's last year with the Giants if they draft a QB #2 overall.
As for my choice of either Darnold or Rosen, it's a really tough decision. Darnold definitely needs work - his mechanics are sloppy - but he does seem to have that "it" factor. Rosen, on the other hand, is a much more polished passer - it's easy to watch his film and fall in love with his talent (as Milton has). But, as many have reminded all of us as we've picked Eli apart the past couple of years, the greatest ability for any football player is availability. Rosen's injury history is not something that can be easily dismissed - especially concussions.
I think I'd take Darnold, but it's by a razor-thin margin. Ultimately, I believe that intangibles matter as much as physical talent when it comes to QBs, so I'm willing to bet on "it."
Darnold has a great arm and you can see the talent. He MAY turn into a great QB.
I am starting to be intrigued by Allen. Big, strong guy with uber string arm, but limited training and somewhat inaccurate.
I think Cleveland wants to win now and therefore Rosen will be their choice. The Giants will chose between Darnold, Allen and Mayfield (who is able to win now, also). IF Gettleman sees enough ability and that minor tweaks can correct his flaws, he will pick Darnold knowing he has two years of Eli to get Darnold fixed.
He's indicated Rosen significantly above Darnold. He even has Mayfield ahead of Darnold.
Say the Giants want Rosen, and the Browns make it clear they might make another deal with a team that wants Rosen at No. 1, and then happily take their quarterback at No. 4.
The Giants jump. Last year, San Francisco got two third-round picks and a fourth-rounder to move back from No. 2 to No. 3 so Chicago could move up and grab Trubisky. The cost for No. 1 is even more. So the Browns move from No. 1 to No. 2 and get a second-rounder and two thirds (one this year, one next) from the Giants.
A bigger, more athletic, more mobile QB who can make plays when things around him aren't perfect. I like that more than the perfect passer who can't do much else.
Darnold had a bad OL this year. I definitely think that hurt him a bit. It was better in 2016 - and his play reflected that.
I think the consensus is that Rosen is the better talent, but carries a fair amount of risk. I love the arm and the ability - he has really sound mechanics. I'm not even that worried about the personality (though I definitely think the Jay Cutler comp has a little bit of merit) - but the head injuries have to be a factor when you're considering a player this high in the draft.
I get why many are enamored with Allen - as I said before, I just find him hard to evaluate. One Power5 opponent in his career and he was dreadful in that game. But then you see some of the throws he makes and drool.
I still maintain that Lamar Jackson will be a massive threat in the right system with good coaching, but he won't be in play @ 2. The only way he's even in the conversation is if we go a different direction 2nd overall and then want to make a play to get him later.. which I still like the idea of. But it'll be harder to do.
Darnold has a great arm and you can see the talent. He MAY turn into a great QB.
Couldn't agree more. I'm with Sy as in I like Rosen a little more than Darnold, but the injury concerns are there. Not too worried about the character issues. He's a smart guy who shares his opinions. I think that's being overly scrutinized.
Two years ago the Eagles signed Bradford to big money and then trade up for Wentz. Last year the Bears signed Glennon for big money and then traded up for Trubisky. Over the next three months, don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
or would you take one?
Depends how enamored the Browns are with Darnold or Rosen, as I don't see Gettleman trading up to secure the Giants' preference.
I've been pretty impressed with rosen's arm but how much of that matters when you consider the other things.
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Which is why you believe that's who the Giants want.
No, Darnold has the makeup and tools and UPSIDE NYG will prefer, and Rosen's medical dossier will contribute to a slightly lower grade.
Rosen's personality is a non-issue. If he is working hard in practice, working hard learning the playbook, studying his opponent on film, and most importantly, finding the open man and getting the team in the end zone, his teammates will love him. This is the NFL, not High School.
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I still maintain that Lamar Jackson will be a massive threat in the right system with good coaching.
And by the right system you mean a system tailored towards his very specific talents. And then what do you do when he gets hurt? Are you really willing to commit to an offensive system that depends on a trio of QBs who are really just RBs with a strong arm? I'd rather draft Rosen and go back to the vertical play-action offense that's won the Giants every Super Bowl they've won to date.
I don't think you necessarily have to make it so that it's a system that only mobile, college-style QB's can play in.
The Texans went into the season with Tom Savage under center and then he was replaced by Watson early on - they're totally different players but they didn't have to make radical systemic changes.
But that stuff just doesn't work in the NFL. You'd have to be crazy to spend a 1st round pick on him, or even a 2nd or 3rd. What's the point?
The NFL, even today, remains a league where QBs need to drop back, read a defense and deliver the football on time, quickly and accurately.
But that stuff just doesn't work in the NFL. You'd have to be crazy to spend a 1st round pick on him, or even a 2nd or 3rd. What's the point?
The NFL, even today, remains a league where QBs need to drop back, read a defense and deliver the football on time, quickly and accurately.
Reminds of RGIII
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In comment 13771068 JonC said:
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Which is why you believe that's who the Giants want.
No, Darnold has the makeup and tools and UPSIDE NYG will prefer, and Rosen's medical dossier will contribute to a slightly lower grade.
Rosen is more of vertical play-action offense QB and Darnold may have the better future in a West Coast offense. I think Dorsey will prefer Darnold and Gettleman will prefer Rosen. Which is why it's important for Gettleman to play his cards better than Accorsi did when the Chargers took the Giants to the cleaners and came away with the QB they wanted all along.
I've seen him compared to Vick but Vick was an underrated passer. He could be laser accurate and had a cannon from any arm angle. Far better thrower than Jackson.
All that being said - I think Jackson's better than Deshaun Watson who looked very good as a rookie. But so did RG3.
Not every fast, African American QB is RGIII.
The team around Jackson sucked this year.
Here's what one scout had to say about him...
Not every fast, African American QB is RGIII.
The team around Jackson sucked this year.
Here's what one scout had to say about him...
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"[Jackson's] upside is scary. His flaws are correctable compared to what he was his first year as he's already made a substantial jump. No reason to believe he won't make bigger leaps. His athleticism and speed are different-level-type stuff. I did Cam Newton coming out and know Mike Vick well; [Jackson] is more advanced in the passing game than either of them when they came out. [Jackson] will be fine sitting in the pocket and getting hit on the chin. It's the reason his toughness is seen already as arguably his best quality, because he forces himself to stay in there wanting to show he's a true quarterback.
What’s your action plan to take him, arc? You can’t take him at 2 & I HATE trading down. As I mentioned the other night, if the Giants do not like Darnold/Allen/Rosen I want Barkley. Now you need to trade up to get back into the mid first round.
Passing: 3200 yards, 20/5, 8.1 YPA (led NFL)
Rushing: 815 yards, 8 TDs, 6.8 YPA (led NFL)
The Redskins were 4th in the NFL that season with 436 points scored...more than the Giants have scored in any season since 1963.
The problem with RGIII wasn't how he played. His problem was Dan Snyder.
I see Lamar Jackson as a better prospect than RGIII. His ceiling in the NFL is through the roof; higher IMO than any of the other prospects on this board.
It has zero to do with race. RG3 just happened to be a good example of a guy who had the same issues. So did Johnny Football and Tim Tebow.
The only guy who brought race into it was you.
Not every fast, African American QB is RGIII.
The team around Jackson sucked this year.
Here's what one scout had to say about him...
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"[Jackson's] upside is scary. His flaws are correctable compared to what he was his first year as he's already made a substantial jump. No reason to believe he won't make bigger leaps. His athleticism and speed are different-level-type stuff. I did Cam Newton coming out and know Mike Vick well; [Jackson] is more advanced in the passing game than either of them when they came out. [Jackson] will be fine sitting in the pocket and getting hit on the chin. It's the reason his toughness is seen already as arguably his best quality, because he forces himself to stay in there wanting to show he's a true quarterback.
I suppose it is true. I liked RGIII, thought he'd be good and still think he would have been if Wash. didn't ruin his knee.
I really liked Watson because he was a winner and a thrower first who could make things happen with his feet. Liked him better than Trubisky and Mahommes.
I probably haven't seen enough of Jackson, but what I did I do not see Watson.
It has zero to do with race. RG3 just happened to be a good example of a guy who had the same issues. So did Johnny Football and Tim Tebow.
The only guy who brought race into it was you.
It was a general statement. If I was directing it at you, I would have said so.
People have a preconceived notion of black QB's as guys who just scramble and can't throw - not everyone, not anyone specifically, but some of the things I read about Jackson definitely come from that place.
Hell, I saw someone here refer to Jamies Winston as a scrambler a few weeks ago. That's not his game at all.
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A lot of the stuff people are saying about Jackson are the same things that were said about Watson.
Not every fast, African American QB is RGIII.
The team around Jackson sucked this year.
Here's what one scout had to say about him...
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"[Jackson's] upside is scary. His flaws are correctable compared to what he was his first year as he's already made a substantial jump. No reason to believe he won't make bigger leaps. His athleticism and speed are different-level-type stuff. I did Cam Newton coming out and know Mike Vick well; [Jackson] is more advanced in the passing game than either of them when they came out. [Jackson] will be fine sitting in the pocket and getting hit on the chin. It's the reason his toughness is seen already as arguably his best quality, because he forces himself to stay in there wanting to show he's a true quarterback.
What’s your action plan to take him, arc? You can’t take him at 2 & I HATE trading down. As I mentioned the other night, if the Giants do not like Darnold/Allen/Rosen I want Barkley. Now you need to trade up to get back into the mid first round.
We'd likely have to move back into the tail end of the 1st round - but I don't think we'd have to move up that far.
BPA at 2, buy back into rd. 1 to take Jackson. Probably the only way to do it. I wouldn't take him 2nd overall because I think you can get a real stud there and still get him later in the round.
It's a shot at Jackson to compare the players.
It's a shot at Jackson to compare the players.
What do you think of Jackson compared to these other guys?
Well I must say Eli has that throw and turn the body routine I’ve never seen a QB do that before that might be why he holds that streak his body is ready for impact the only thing is the accuracy on those throws it’s amazing he doesn’t have more interceptions than he does.......
What do you think of Jackson compared to these other guys?
Clearly he has rare running skills. He'll be a weapon with his feet. That will open up things for the RBs and pass game.
If you draft him you have to bring in the college game with the plays that work for him. I don't see that as a problem but you have to do what he does best. And this guy running a spread option? That's going to cause problems for NFL defenses if he can hold up. For the Giants he would help our terrible OL and run game. Any RB playing with Jackson will see massive holes.
But he's really thin. That is a HUGE concern.
I'd take Allen and Rosen over him. Darnold I don't like. I like Mayfield. He's short but very strong. He'll play like Wilson.