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If there was one move you could do over since 2011

Essex : 1/4/2018 9:17 am
that you felt would have changed the situation we are in today, what would it have been.

I am sure I am forgetting something but I think it would have been to fire Coughlin and Reese after 2014 (certainly together 2015 when Coughlin went).

Runner up being more aggressive in getting Conklin in 2016 draft, which would have only made us move up three places (exspensive but if we really loved him and we were right to love him that is a building block you couldn’t be so close to and not do something about it).
I would  
sharpshooter66 : 1/4/2018 9:21 am : link
have fired Reese instead of Coughlin and pro oted Coughlin to GM
Getting people in place  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/4/2018 9:22 am : link
who gave a damn about upgrading the OL.
Drafting David Wilson in the first round.  
FStubbs : 1/4/2018 9:23 am : link
It was an arrogant move for a team that was running on fumes on the lines and set the tone for the next few seasons, culminating in this disaster.
RE: Getting people in place  
FStubbs : 1/4/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 13770895 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
who gave a damn about upgrading the OL.


Reese spent 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder on the OL in recent years. He cared, he tried, he just couldn't get it done.
RE: RE: Getting people in place  
FStubbs : 1/4/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 13770899 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 13770895 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


who gave a damn about upgrading the OL.



Reese spent 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder on the OL in recent years. He cared, he tried, he just couldn't get it done.


... to my previous point, though, this was when it was too late.
The entire 2012 Draft  
djstat : 1/4/2018 9:24 am : link
Changed the franchise. Entire draft was a bust. No cries that Wilson got injured, he did not pan out.

•First Round. No. 32, David Wilson, BUST
•Second Round. No. 63, Rueben Randle, BUST
•Third Round. No. 94, Jayron Hosley, BUST BUST
•Fourth Round. No. 127, Adrien Robinson, HUGE BUST
•Sixth Round. No. 201, Matt Mccants, BUST
•Seventh Round. No.
Getting rid of Gilbride..  
Sean : 1/4/2018 9:24 am : link
Let set the domino of coaches being on different schedules. Eli never needed to overhaul his mechanics, he needed an OL.

I read have stayed the course after 2013 and rebuilt the line. If 2014 was a poor year, then they could have cleaned house then.
RE: Drafting David Wilson in the first round.  
mrvax : 1/4/2018 9:27 am : link
In comment 13770897 FStubbs said:
Quote:
It was an arrogant move for a team that was running on fumes on the lines and set the tone for the next few seasons, culminating in this disaster.



People often forget that the Giants had no signed RBs at the time except for the battle scarred/injured Bradshaw. RB was as big of a need as Oline.

For my fix: I'd liked to go back in time to about 2013 and fire Reese then.
I have 2  
superspynyg : 1/4/2018 9:28 am : link
Not passed on Gurley for Flowers
And
Not passed on Tunsil for Apple
promoting marc ross and  
sundayatone : 1/4/2018 9:31 am : link
giving eli a 3rd mega contract
As others have said  
BillT : 1/4/2018 9:31 am : link
We took the "shiny new toy" David Wilson in 2012 when the OL was in decline with Cordy Glenn and other OLs on the board. We followed that with Randle and Hosley. Wilson was a talented guy and worthy of the 32nd pick but he was too small and poor of a blocker to protect the QB on blitzes which limited his usefulness. As the last pick in the 3rd round Holsey had talent but didn't pan out. Randle (ugh) was picked with Olivier Vernon and Brandon Brooks still on the board.
When you look at the lack of  
joeinpa : 1/4/2018 9:34 am : link
Depth, the inability to develop an offensive line, the ignoring of the linebacker position and the subsequent inability to cover tight ends; it is not difficult to conclude that retaining Jerry Reese for as long as they did, would be the do over.
strength and conditioning coach  
giantfan2000 : 1/4/2018 9:35 am : link
Coughlin 's refusal to fire long time S & C and update S & C with modern strategies

caused
players careers cut short by improper rehab (Phlillps , Hicks, Terrell Thomas)
players to go down with non contact injuries (Cruz , Beatty)
players NEVER came back from IR once they were put on (which once again points to improper rehab )
huge wholes in our roster that were impossible to fill

ultimately cost TC his job

even though we loss a ton of players this year
I would like to point out a couple of things

some of the players seem to voluntarily go on IR because the season was loss
I doubt Jackrabbit would have gone on IR if Giants were in playoffs

it seems like almost ALL the players hurt this year will be back next year .. most of the injuries we sustained this year were career ending ..





Pretty easy for me.  
Beezer : 1/4/2018 9:37 am : link

Pass on Flowers and select Todd Gurley.

Our O-line would certainly be no worse, and while we probably wouldn't have drafted Gallman, I'd say a Gurley/Darkwa 1-2 punch would be pretty sizable.

By the way, if you don't recall, the Rams took Gurley with the NEXT pick after the Giants selected Flowers.

Ugh.
sorry  
giantfan2000 : 1/4/2018 9:40 am : link
were NOT career ending ..
RE: I have 2  
Essex : 1/4/2018 9:41 am : link
In comment 13770909 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Not passed on Gurley for Flowers
And
Not passed on Tunsil for Apple


My issue with this if our goal was to repair Oline you had to take Flowers and Tunsil. But in the end, Gurley was the only great player of the four, Tunsil is ranked like 48th Tackle of 64 in PFf. The fact is that tunsil is better than apple, but not sure either one was good. Gurley was a mistake but could he be nearly as effective with our oline?
RE: strength and conditioning coach  
BillT : 1/4/2018 9:41 am : link
In comment 13770923 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
Coughlin 's refusal to fire long time S & C and update S & C with modern strategies

This is nonsense. We had tons of injuries this year and they were no different than the injuries under TC. TC had guys wearing GPS trackers so he used new technology as well.

Injuries have been a constant with the Giants from Parcells to Fassel to TC to McAdoo.
There are so many things but without a doubt #1 would be  
NYGmen58 : 1/4/2018 9:43 am : link
not firing Kevin Gilbride after 2013. He was a great OC that ran the perfect offensive system for Eli and the Giants.

Mara and Reese ignored the fact that the issue was a dearth of talent, not scheme, and made the catastrophic decision to jettison Gilbride and replace him with Ben McAdoo and his broken offensive system and inane playbook. The rest is history.

That move above all else is the root cause of why the Giants are where they are today.
RE: There are so many things but without a doubt #1 would be  
mrvax : 1/4/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 13770951 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
not firing Kevin Gilbride after 2013. He was a great OC that ran the perfect offensive system for Eli and the Giants.

Mara and Reese ignored the fact that the issue was a dearth of talent, not scheme, and made the catastrophic decision to jettison Gilbride and replace him with Ben McAdoo and his broken offensive system and inane playbook. The rest is history.

That move above all else is the root cause of why the Giants are where they are today.


Good post. The end result was not really doing anything that worked to fix the Oline and to negate that, we switch to a WCO to get the ball out quicker. Eli was never good in the short passing game.
RE: There are so many things but without a doubt #1 would be  
aquidneck : 1/4/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13770951 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
not firing Kevin Gilbride after 2013. He was a great OC that ran the perfect offensive system for Eli and the Giants.

Mara and Reese ignored the fact that the issue was a dearth of talent, not scheme, and made the catastrophic decision to jettison Gilbride and replace him with Ben McAdoo and his broken offensive system and inane playbook. The rest is history.

That move above all else is the root cause of why the Giants are where they are today.


I suspect this is revisionist history. Coughlin could have protected Gillbride and chose not to.

Honestly, after '13, my instinct was to start over then. See Coughlin and the whole staff go. Reese too, for that matter (though I later became one of his defenders).

In retrospect, I might have been on to something.
I agree that taking Wilson  
Pete in MD : 1/4/2018 9:51 am : link
instead of rebuilding the Oline was a big mistake. And it's not exactly 20/20 hindsight because many believed Cordy Glenn was going to be the pick back then. Mitchell Schwartz, who went a few picks before Glenn, would have also been a good pick.
RE: RE: Getting people in place  
RottenApple : 1/4/2018 9:52 am : link
In comment 13770899 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 13770895 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


who gave a damn about upgrading the OL.



Reese spent 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder on the OL in recent years. He cared, he tried, he just couldn't get it done.


Most teams did not have Pugh in their first round. As for Flowers, one team thought he could play LT. That team was dead wrong.
The Flowers pick  
mrvax : 1/4/2018 10:08 am : link
pissed me off. He was usually graded mid-20's and had a lot of footwork to clean up.

The Giants likely had Flowers penciled in for RT. The following month, Beatty tore his pec and the rest is history.
Why limit it to 'since 2011'?  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/4/2018 10:09 am : link
The decay of the offensive line had started by 2009. Doubling down on O'Hara, Diehl and even Snee/McKenzie may have bought the Giants a few years of respectability, but at what cost?

So here's a thought: instead of trading down in 2006, maybe Accorsi should have just taken Nick Mangold at 25. A side benefit would be that, without the extra pick from that trade, we might have been spared the trade-up for Sinorice Moss. A lot of good players were taken at the bottom of that second round, including Maurice Jones-Drew.
RottenApple: Based on what?  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/4/2018 10:12 am : link
RottenApple said:
Quote:
Most teams did not have Pugh in their first round. As for Flowers, one team thought he could play LT. That team was dead wrong.
Awesome! RottenApple has access to all 32 teams' draft boards from 2013 and 2015. Or maybe he's just talking out of his @$$.
Thrown darts for every  
Jay in Toronto : 1/4/2018 10:12 am : link
Round three pick
Letting TC go instead of Reese.  
Racer : 1/4/2018 10:15 am : link
One knows how to build a roster, the other knows how to make weak attempts at looking clever.

First runner up would be bringing in a west coast QB coach to oversee Eli's final years. Then you promoted the guy who can't be told what he knows to HC.
Offensive line should have been the priority in 2012.  
an_idol_mind : 1/4/2018 10:16 am : link
MacKenize retired, Snee was coming off a rough year, Diehl was on his last legs.

It's almost like the front office saw what Eli did in 2011 and figured he could replicate that every year, no matter who was on the line.
RE: Why limit it to 'since 2011'?  
BillT : 1/4/2018 10:24 am : link
In comment 13771001 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
The decay of the offensive line had started by 2009. Doubling down on O'Hara, Diehl and even Snee/McKenzie may have bought the Giants a few years of respectability, but at what cost?

Come on BBB! "a few years of respectability"??? How about a SB Title!!!
I would go with any decisions made on the O-line  
Jimmy Googs : 1/4/2018 10:29 am : link
since then...
RE: Letting TC go instead of Reese.  
Default : 1/4/2018 10:31 am : link
In comment 13771014 Racer said:
Quote:
One knows how to build a roster, the other knows how to make weak attempts at looking clever.


lol, yeah he built great rosters in Jacksonville and NEVER had any cap issues

RE: I have 2  
BocaGiants91 : 1/4/2018 10:34 am : link
In comment 13770909 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Not passed on Gurley for Flowers
And
Not passed on Tunsil for Apple


This, I’ve been harping on the Flowers over Gurley pick, it’s that terrible.
RE: RE: I have 2  
BillT : 1/4/2018 10:38 am : link
In comment 13771078 BocaGiants91 said:
Quote:
In comment 13770909 superspynyg said:


Quote:


Not passed on Gurley for Flowers
And
Not passed on Tunsil for Apple



This, I’ve been harping on the Flowers over Gurley pick, it’s that terrible.

So we killed Reese for Wilson over Glenn but now we kill Reese for Flowers over Gurley. Just can't win.
RE: RE: Drafting David Wilson in the first round.  
Simms11 : 1/4/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 13770906 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13770897 FStubbs said:


Quote:


It was an arrogant move for a team that was running on fumes on the lines and set the tone for the next few seasons, culminating in this disaster.




People often forget that the Giants had no signed RBs at the time except for the battle scarred/injured Bradshaw. RB was as big of a need as Oline.

For my fix: I'd liked to go back in time to about 2013 and fire Reese then.


Also if you remember Tampa grabbed the guy we wanted right in front of us and he’s had a good career. Lastly, the Giants had the last pick in the First Round and so it was a value pick. I also think Wilson would have helped this team if not for his medical retirement. He was a great kick returner nd had tremendous speed. Speed kills.
It is hard for me to fathom...  
DonQuixote : 1/4/2018 10:44 am : link
that when asked to identify the most major mistake over the past six years, so many are fixated on Wilson.

Wilson was ONE draft pick. He did not turn out. What's more, he did not turn out because of an injury that nobody could have anticipated.

I don't know how in the world anyone could identify that situation as a major one in the recent history of the Giants and I wish Wilson the best.
RE: RE: Getting people in place  
weeg in the bronx : 1/4/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 13770899 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 13770895 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


who gave a damn about upgrading the OL.



Reese spent 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder on the OL in recent years. He cared, he tried, he just couldn't get it done.


Since 2013, Reese drafted as many QBs in the first five rounds as he has OL.
If we consider the Pats to be the model franchise, with an older less mobile QB, they have drafted 6 linemen over that period in top five rounds plus some a few other sixth rounders
I would have fired Reese and Coughlin after 2012  
Go Terps : 1/4/2018 10:54 am : link
Hired Andy Reid after the Eagles fired him.
RE: I would have fired Reese and Coughlin after 2012  
Sean : 1/4/2018 10:56 am : link
In comment 13771131 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Hired Andy Reid after the Eagles fired him.


Clean house a year removed from a SB off a winning record?
keeping Reese  
Enzo : 1/4/2018 10:56 am : link
You can cherry pick tons of draft picks and free agent signings you would have done instead - but all it would have done was prolonged the inevitable decline.
BillT: By 2011, O'Hara was gone...  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/4/2018 10:59 am : link
...and the line as a whole was horrible much of the year.

In comment 13771055 BillT said:
Quote:
Come on BBB! "a few years of respectability"??? How about a SB Title!!!
McKenzie stunk in 2011, Diehl wasn't much better and even Snee was wearing down. With the injuries to Beatty and Baas, Kevin Boothe might have been the most consistent lineman.

The unit was better in the post-season, with Baas actually staying somewhat healthy for a few weeks. But Eli still got the sh!t kicked out of him in San Francisco. My view is that the SB XLVI title was won despite the decisions in 2007/2008/2009 to try to keep that line together, not because of those decisions. Obviously, we'll never know what might have happened if Reese and Coughlin had tried to rebuild the line sooner. It's pretty safe to say Snee wasn't going anywhere, given the special relationship.
Keeping Reese and most of the coaching staff  
arniefez : 1/4/2018 10:59 am : link
when Coughlin was fired. They all should have gone at the same time. Hopefully this time they do.
Sean  
Go Terps : 1/4/2018 11:00 am : link
I'm obviously doing it with the benefit of hindsight, but yeah that would be the move.
Trading up for  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/4/2018 11:31 am : link
Nate Solder would have been a nice move.
Yahoo  
Mike in St. Louis : 1/4/2018 11:32 am : link
"I want you to remember this word, okay? It's kind of like a code word: Yahoo. Can you remember that?"
If they knew they were going to go out and spend $200M on defense...  
Torrag : 1/4/2018 11:33 am : link
...they should have kept TC in place for one more year and see what he could do with it.
Tell me about it  
RinR : 1/4/2018 11:44 am : link
In comment 13771087 BillT said:
Quote:

So we killed Reese for Wilson over Glenn but now we kill Reese for Flowers over Gurley. Just can't win.


I've read on BBI that Barry Sanders couldnt run behind this line. Not to mention that Emmett Smith's greatness was largely due to the OL he ran behind. Yet we should've taken Gurley over Flowers.
Fire Reese instead of Gilbride  
Thegratefulhead : 1/4/2018 12:12 pm : link
That was the right system for Eli, Reese got them the wrong players.
Eli threw 27  
bluepepper : 1/4/2018 2:24 pm : link
Int's in Gilbride's last year. If that was the system for him then we definitely need to draft a QB at #2.

RE: RE: Drafting David Wilson in the first round.  
old man : 1/4/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13770906 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13770897 FStubbs said:


Quote:


It was an arrogant move for a team that was running on fumes on the lines and set the tone for the next few seasons, culminating in this

disaster.




People often forget that the Giants had no signed RBs at the time except for the battle scarred/injured Bradshaw. RB was as big of a need as Oline.

For my fix: I'd liked to go back in time to about 2013 and
fire Reese then.


+1.
The '12 and '17 drafts from the OL perspective had me wanting him fired.
Saw your QB get destroyed by SF in the '11 p/o game, and the OL running on fumes. Should have tried for an OL pick in 1 or 2. In 17, you see EF is still not a LT, and the OL despite WS in '16 were overmatched, and the best you could do was, again, a 6th round OL pick, and a UDFA? Really?
I would have dumped Reese, and Ross.....on their heads.
drafting Hokies backfired  
Greg from LI : 1/4/2018 4:14 pm : link
Just as I predicted.
RE: Offensive line should have been the priority in 2012.  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/4/2018 5:51 pm : link
In comment 13771018 an_idol_mind said:
Quote:
MacKenize retired, Snee was coming off a rough year, Diehl was on his last legs.

It's almost like the front office saw what Eli did in 2011 and figured he could replicate that every year, no matter who was on the line.


And there are a number of NFL teams who think like that and believe that to be (and should be) the case.
David Wilson pick/trusting will Beatty to be a LT  
Route 9 : 1/4/2018 9:09 pm : link
starting LT that is in 2013. Must have been blowing Reese for that contract.
Drafting David Wilson over Cordy Glenn started the downfall  
Eric on Li : 1/4/2018 10:03 pm : link
Glenn was the highest rated player on the board, would have immediately been their most talented OL, and massively helped transition from Diehl/Baas/Snee as they got cooked.

That was a first guess by a lot of people.

Runner up might be resigning Linval Joseph instead of Jon Beason that following season. That was just an insane decision.
I think Reese's worst pick  
Jersey55 : 1/6/2018 11:29 am : link
in round 1 was Flowers, how could he have beeb so wrong when most draft sites said that Flowers had too many holes in his game and they were exactly right about that........
get Strahan  
bc4life : 1/6/2018 2:46 pm : link
to play one more year
RE: Eli threw 27  
Jimmy Googs : 1/6/2018 6:27 pm : link
In comment 13771724 bluepepper said:
Quote:
Int's in Gilbride's last year. If that was the system for him then we definitely need to draft a QB at #2.


Its not Eli's fault, blame (fill in the blank name) who is no longer a NY Giant for a reason...
Signed Incognito instead of John Jerry.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/6/2018 6:29 pm : link
.
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