But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
It wouldn't be unheard of. Elway is under a lot of scrutiny right now for Lynch. Den has a great defense and is built to win now. D Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, are about to leave their peaks.
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
How is that going to work in 72 hours? Neither organization can discuss players under contract until the league year opens. Doing so amounts to tampering. Eli and his agent can gauge interest (with the permission of the Giants), but he has $5M reasons not to do a damn thing.
per longtime Broncos beat reporter. Link is in Denver/Kirk Cousins thread.
Sure, but if Cousins hits the open market there will be a biding war. Broncos won't necessarily win that. If I were the Broncos I'd prefer Cousins too, he's younger.
Eli made his biggest strides, by far, with Palmer from 2007-2009. Â
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Very logical point. Had forgotten about the bonus. Any trade would need to occur before the 3rd day of the new league year.
For the record, I'd rather have Eli come back for one more year.
I've always liked Sullivan. Happy he beat out McAdoo for the job.
Definitely easy to link Eli there now and its no sure thing Cousins even hits free agency.. With that being said, I doubt Elway will make a trade for Eli when there's a good chance he'll be released.
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
How is that going to work in 72 hours? Neither organization can discuss players under contract until the league year opens. Doing so amounts to tampering. Eli and his agent can gauge interest (with the permission of the Giants), but he has $5M reasons not to do a damn thing.
If all three sides want it to happen it can happen. 72 hours is an eternity
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
Archie was quoted as saying he didn’t think Eli would want to go to Denver if he had a choice of where to go. He said Eli has always been very conscious of NOT appearing to be following in Peyton’s shoes. I read that somewhere recently.
our ostensible OC is a position coach, our HC is unemployed unless GB brings him back to get coffee for Rodgers and our DC will probably end up back as a DB coach someplace if he gets employed at all.
our ostensible OC is a position coach, our HC is unemployed unless GB brings him back to get coffee for Rodgers and our DC will probably end up back as a DB coach someplace if he gets employed at all.
Well done Jawn, Steve and Jerry.
Spags and Sullivan were sure good enough when we won a SB with them
our ostensible OC is a position coach, our HC is unemployed unless GB brings him back to get coffee for Rodgers and our DC will probably end up back as a DB coach someplace if he gets employed at all.
Well done Jawn, Steve and Jerry.
You do realize how many of the alleged weak links were hired by Coughlin, right?
You're talking about the same time period. Sullivan was the QB coach during Eli's best seasons in the Gilbride Era. Of course, other than 2011, the McAdoo OC years were Eli's next best seasons, but most fans choose to ignore that because it runs in the face of the narrative that McAdoo wasn't even a good OC.
our ostensible OC is a position coach, our HC is unemployed unless GB brings him back to get coffee for Rodgers and our DC will probably end up back as a DB coach someplace if he gets employed at all.
Well done Jawn, Steve and Jerry.
Gene, just so we're clear, are you on your Coughlin got railroaded into his staff kick today or on the Coughlin didn't need a staff and just trotted them out to hold the extra headsets?
Given that ya know, Coughlin hired all of them. One of them twice.
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
How is that going to work in 72 hours? Neither organization can discuss players under contract until the league year opens. Doing so amounts to tampering. Eli and his agent can gauge interest (with the permission of the Giants), but he has $5M reasons not to do a damn thing.
C'mon Diver, don't be naive (or intentionally literal). Teams obviously can, and do, discuss trade ideas in the abstract long before the league year opens. Tampering penalties are typically reserved for teams reaching out to impending free agents prior to the free agency period, not team executives gauging interest and discussing general terms.
A trade could absolutely be consummated within the bonus window. And if Eli is the one pushing for a trade, he could also agree to alter the timing of his bonus or waiving it altogether. Let's not pretend like Eli hasn't been very clear about his desire to remain the starting QB of the Giants, and failing that, a starting QB somewhere. And if the Giants are going to be on the hook for his contract in 2018 either way, they can flat out tell him that if they draft a QB at #2, they're envisioning him in Warner's 2004 role. You don't think that might make him open up some flexibility on his 5MM reasons not to do a damn thing?
I'm not saying any of that is likely, but to act like it's impossible is being obtuse on purpose, and I know you know the drill way better than that. I don't know why you have this thing about pointing out the literal interpretation of Eli's contract as a barrier to discussing how he may leave the team. Again, I don't think it's necessarily likely - I fully expect Eli to be a Giant in 2018, but it'll be because both sides mutually want/need to work together for another year, not because the nuances of Eli's contract will prevent any other outcome.
RE: I think Sully drew from his experience with Gilbride Â
and Coughlin to put together an offense for the last however many games
Sullivan is a class guy Army guy and got a bad rap at times I wish him well!
And took the average scoring output from the 15.75 per game that the offense was scoring under McAdoo to 14.25 for the final four games. I'm glad he was able to draw from that Gilbride and Coughlin experience!
If nothing else gotta tip the hat to the guy that brought in Colonel?/Major? Gadsen to talk to the guys about never giving up.
Seems we won a SB that season.
There are now 2 teams, Jags and Broncos that have strong ties to Eli and both teams need a QB to put them over the hump as both teams are built to win now. And does Eli want to learn another new system?
With Sullivan leaving does that impact slightly in favor of an offensive head coach?
By the way what does Norv Turner do now, I wonder how he and Eli might click.
There are now 2 teams, Jags and Broncos that have strong ties to Eli and both teams need a QB to put them over the hump as both teams are built to win now. And does Eli want to learn another new system?
With Sullivan leaving does that impact slightly in favor of an offensive head coach?
By the way what does Norv Turner do now, I wonder how he and Eli might click.
Sullivan was leaving all along; he was under contract so if the Giants wanted him, they could have kept him. Allowing the assistants to interview/leave is a courtesy to them, but also suggests that they didn't necessarily think the new coach would keep them anyway.
TL;DR: Sullivan leaving was already factored into the coaching search.
He regressed under Sullivan in 2010, turning the ball over at an alarming clip, then had the great 2011 season.
That one year is the sole basis for Sullivan’s reputation as a QB Whisperer. There is nothing else in his background/resume to suggest it.
eli's int stats are a bit off for 2010 due to his slinging it around to no-name guys trying to win that GB game and get into the playoffs. threw 3 picks that game, but he also threw for an assload of TDs that year.
not saying sullivan is god's gift, but 2010 was a good year for the giants and eli.. they were hit by a ton of key injuries late in the season that year, but that was still at 10-6 team.
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
I think Elway has more interest in Kirk Cousins and ELI HAS A NO TRADE CLAUSE
I think the Giants had thoughts on him being Coughlin's successor.
Part of 2 Super Bowls. All impressions is he is a good man and served our country.
Was thinking about him, Spags and other assistants who were a part of the Giants successes and thought about them affected. Glad he landed on his feet.
Sullivan achieved his best results as receivers coach. Â
Steve Smith, Mario Manningham and Hakeem Nicks all flourished during his tenure. Dominik Hixon became a productive pro. Plaxico Burress fulfilled some of his awesome potential and won a Super Bowl. Unfortunately, all five had their careers cut short - four by injury, one by stupidity.
Coughlin's background coaching receivers makes it hard to know how much credit he and Sullivan each deserve in that area. In any case, the results were pretty good. Should they have kept Plax on a shorter leash in 2008? Maybe. I tend to think idiots will be idiots.
Sullivan's impact as QB Coach is much fuzzier. I didn't see a dramatic change in Eli Manning from 2008-2009 to 2010-2011, or from 2014 to 2015. That's not surprising. When Sullivan took over from Chris Palmer, Eli was already a Super Bowl MVP and a finished product in the Coughlin/Gilbride offense. When Sullivan returned in 2015, Eli had already reached a reasonable level of proficiency in the Coughlin/McAdoo version of the WCO, notwithstanding the rough opener in Detroit and the 5-INT San Fransicso debacle. And since Sullivan had no prior WCO history, it's hard to imagine that he had a big impact in that first year.
Sullivan's popularity has always puzzled me. It's great that Coughlin gave a vet a break, both in Jacksonville and in New York. But was a defensive back from Army, who had never coached on the offensive side of the ball, really the best candidate for the fast track to QB Coach and OC?
RE: Sullivan achieved his best results as receivers coach. Â
Steve Smith, Mario Manningham and Hakeem Nicks all flourished during his tenure. Dominik Hixon became a productive pro. Plaxico Burress fulfilled some of his awesome potential and won a Super Bowl. Unfortunately, all five had their careers cut short - four by injury, one by stupidity.
Coughlin's background coaching receivers makes it hard to know how much credit he and Sullivan each deserve in that area. In any case, the results were pretty good. Should they have kept Plax on a shorter leash in 2008? Maybe. I tend to think idiots will be idiots.
Sullivan's impact as QB Coach is much fuzzier. I didn't see a dramatic change in Eli Manning from 2008-2009 to 2010-2011, or from 2014 to 2015. That's not surprising. When Sullivan took over from Chris Palmer, Eli was already a Super Bowl MVP and a finished product in the Coughlin/Gilbride offense. When Sullivan returned in 2015, Eli had already reached a reasonable level of proficiency in the Coughlin/McAdoo version of the WCO, notwithstanding the rough opener in Detroit and the 5-INT San Fransicso debacle. And since Sullivan had no prior WCO history, it's hard to imagine that he had a big impact in that first year.
Sullivan's popularity has always puzzled me. It's great that Coughlin gave a vet a break, both in Jacksonville and in New York. But was a defensive back from Army, who had never coached on the offensive side of the ball, really the best candidate for the fast track to QB Coach and OC?
Exactly.
RE: Sullivan achieved his best results as receivers coach. Â
Steve Smith, Mario Manningham and Hakeem Nicks all flourished during his tenure. Dominik Hixon became a productive pro. Plaxico Burress fulfilled some of his awesome potential and won a Super Bowl. Unfortunately, all five had their careers cut short - four by injury, one by stupidity.
Coughlin's background coaching receivers makes it hard to know how much credit he and Sullivan each deserve in that area. In any case, the results were pretty good. Should they have kept Plax on a shorter leash in 2008? Maybe. I tend to think idiots will be idiots.
Sullivan's impact as QB Coach is much fuzzier. I didn't see a dramatic change in Eli Manning from 2008-2009 to 2010-2011, or from 2014 to 2015. That's not surprising. When Sullivan took over from Chris Palmer, Eli was already a Super Bowl MVP and a finished product in the Coughlin/Gilbride offense. When Sullivan returned in 2015, Eli had already reached a reasonable level of proficiency in the Coughlin/McAdoo version of the WCO, notwithstanding the rough opener in Detroit and the 5-INT San Fransicso debacle. And since Sullivan had no prior WCO history, it's hard to imagine that he had a big impact in that first year.
Sullivan's popularity has always puzzled me. It's great that Coughlin gave a vet a break, both in Jacksonville and in New York. But was a defensive back from Army, who had never coached on the offensive side of the ball, really the best candidate for the fast track to QB Coach and OC?
Great post BBB - you always bring good insights with your posts into the backgrounds of coaches and players.
I agree completely - when we hire a new coordinator I always like to research their coaching pedigree, and when we brought Sully here I just couldn't figure out what was supposed to be the big offensive accomplishments he'd had.
I'm thinking he must be a great teacher and/or motivator. Whatever, it is clear that he's not a great offensive mind creatively, and it's also clear that he has failed to get the offense to execute consistently.
I think if you want to last as a coordinator, you better do at least one of those things very, very well. Either come up with creative game plans that leverage mismatches and lead to points, or coach in such a way that your team always executes successfully whatever play is called so there's a chance to win.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
It wouldn't be unheard of. Elway is under a lot of scrutiny right now for Lynch. Den has a great defense and is built to win now. D Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders, are about to leave their peaks.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
And Sullivan was his QB coach under Gilbride.
Quote:
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
Quote:
In comment 13772251 Emil said:
Quote:
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
How is that going to work in 72 hours? Neither organization can discuss players under contract until the league year opens. Doing so amounts to tampering. Eli and his agent can gauge interest (with the permission of the Giants), but he has $5M reasons not to do a damn thing.
Yes. Sully is a better prospect than Ben, apparently.
Sure, but if Cousins hits the open market there will be a biding war. Broncos won't necessarily win that. If I were the Broncos I'd prefer Cousins too, he's younger.
That one year is the sole basis for Sullivan’s reputation as a QB Whisperer. There is nothing else in his background/resume to suggest it.
Quote:
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Very logical point. Had forgotten about the bonus. Any trade would need to occur before the 3rd day of the new league year.
For the record, I'd rather have Eli come back for one more year.
Definitely easy to link Eli there now and its no sure thing Cousins even hits free agency.. With that being said, I doubt Elway will make a trade for Eli when there's a good chance he'll be released.
Quote:
In comment 13772268 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13772251 Emil said:
Quote:
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
How is that going to work in 72 hours? Neither organization can discuss players under contract until the league year opens. Doing so amounts to tampering. Eli and his agent can gauge interest (with the permission of the Giants), but he has $5M reasons not to do a damn thing.
If all three sides want it to happen it can happen. 72 hours is an eternity
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
Archie was quoted as saying he didn’t think Eli would want to go to Denver if he had a choice of where to go. He said Eli has always been very conscious of NOT appearing to be following in Peyton’s shoes. I read that somewhere recently.
Good luck!
Wasn’t Sullivan his Qb coach under Gilbride? If memory serves me correct 2011 season Eli played lights out Sullivan was the QB coach
Sullivan is a class guy Army guy and got a bad rap at times I wish him well!
Well done Jawn, Steve and Jerry.
Well done Jawn, Steve and Jerry.
Spags and Sullivan were sure good enough when we won a SB with them
But it’s a results business as they say
Well done Jawn, Steve and Jerry.
You're talking about the same time period. Sullivan was the QB coach during Eli's best seasons in the Gilbride Era. Of course, other than 2011, the McAdoo OC years were Eli's next best seasons, but most fans choose to ignore that because it runs in the face of the narrative that McAdoo wasn't even a good OC.
Well done Jawn, Steve and Jerry.
Gene, just so we're clear, are you on your Coughlin got railroaded into his staff kick today or on the Coughlin didn't need a staff and just trotted them out to hold the extra headsets?
Given that ya know, Coughlin hired all of them. One of them twice.
Quote:
In comment 13772268 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13772251 Emil said:
Quote:
But I would not be all surprised if Elway calls Gettleman and talks about what it would take to bring Eli to Denver. Elway is always in win now mode and they have WRs and a defense. I could see Eli waiving his no trade clause for Denver, especially if a trade occurs after the Giants draft a QB.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
So we are going to pay the $5M roster bonus due on the 3rd day of league year only to trade him a month and half later? The dead money gets accelerated into the cap in the event of a trade. Now, you want to tack on $5M on to the $12.4M? If we are going to eat $17.4M in cap, we might as well keep him.
Third day of the league year isn't until March, that's plenty of time to trade him
How is that going to work in 72 hours? Neither organization can discuss players under contract until the league year opens. Doing so amounts to tampering. Eli and his agent can gauge interest (with the permission of the Giants), but he has $5M reasons not to do a damn thing.
C'mon Diver, don't be naive (or intentionally literal). Teams obviously can, and do, discuss trade ideas in the abstract long before the league year opens. Tampering penalties are typically reserved for teams reaching out to impending free agents prior to the free agency period, not team executives gauging interest and discussing general terms.
A trade could absolutely be consummated within the bonus window. And if Eli is the one pushing for a trade, he could also agree to alter the timing of his bonus or waiving it altogether. Let's not pretend like Eli hasn't been very clear about his desire to remain the starting QB of the Giants, and failing that, a starting QB somewhere. And if the Giants are going to be on the hook for his contract in 2018 either way, they can flat out tell him that if they draft a QB at #2, they're envisioning him in Warner's 2004 role. You don't think that might make him open up some flexibility on his 5MM reasons not to do a damn thing?
I'm not saying any of that is likely, but to act like it's impossible is being obtuse on purpose, and I know you know the drill way better than that. I don't know why you have this thing about pointing out the literal interpretation of Eli's contract as a barrier to discussing how he may leave the team. Again, I don't think it's necessarily likely - I fully expect Eli to be a Giant in 2018, but it'll be because both sides mutually want/need to work together for another year, not because the nuances of Eli's contract will prevent any other outcome.
Sullivan is a class guy Army guy and got a bad rap at times I wish him well!
And took the average scoring output from the 15.75 per game that the offense was scoring under McAdoo to 14.25 for the final four games. I'm glad he was able to draw from that Gilbride and Coughlin experience!
Seems we won a SB that season.
With Sullivan leaving does that impact slightly in favor of an offensive head coach?
By the way what does Norv Turner do now, I wonder how he and Eli might click.
With Sullivan leaving does that impact slightly in favor of an offensive head coach?
By the way what does Norv Turner do now, I wonder how he and Eli might click.
Sullivan was leaving all along; he was under contract so if the Giants wanted him, they could have kept him. Allowing the assistants to interview/leave is a courtesy to them, but also suggests that they didn't necessarily think the new coach would keep them anyway.
TL;DR: Sullivan leaving was already factored into the coaching search.
That one year is the sole basis for Sullivan’s reputation as a QB Whisperer. There is nothing else in his background/resume to suggest it.
eli's int stats are a bit off for 2010 due to his slinging it around to no-name guys trying to win that GB game and get into the playoffs. threw 3 picks that game, but he also threw for an assload of TDs that year.
not saying sullivan is god's gift, but 2010 was a good year for the giants and eli.. they were hit by a ton of key injuries late in the season that year, but that was still at 10-6 team.
Best of luck to Coach Sullivan. He seemed like a class guy and leader on the team. I applaud the way he took the lead in addressing the kneeling protests with the team.
He hasn't exactly demonstrated that he's a good offensive coordinator.
Another McAdoo humiliation
He refused to tirn over play calling to him for so long
Part of 2 Super Bowls. All impressions is he is a good man and served our country.
Was thinking about him, Spags and other assistants who were a part of the Giants successes and thought about them affected. Glad he landed on his feet.
Coughlin's background coaching receivers makes it hard to know how much credit he and Sullivan each deserve in that area. In any case, the results were pretty good. Should they have kept Plax on a shorter leash in 2008? Maybe. I tend to think idiots will be idiots.
Sullivan's impact as QB Coach is much fuzzier. I didn't see a dramatic change in Eli Manning from 2008-2009 to 2010-2011, or from 2014 to 2015. That's not surprising. When Sullivan took over from Chris Palmer, Eli was already a Super Bowl MVP and a finished product in the Coughlin/Gilbride offense. When Sullivan returned in 2015, Eli had already reached a reasonable level of proficiency in the Coughlin/McAdoo version of the WCO, notwithstanding the rough opener in Detroit and the 5-INT San Fransicso debacle. And since Sullivan had no prior WCO history, it's hard to imagine that he had a big impact in that first year.
Sullivan's popularity has always puzzled me. It's great that Coughlin gave a vet a break, both in Jacksonville and in New York. But was a defensive back from Army, who had never coached on the offensive side of the ball, really the best candidate for the fast track to QB Coach and OC?
Coughlin's background coaching receivers makes it hard to know how much credit he and Sullivan each deserve in that area. In any case, the results were pretty good. Should they have kept Plax on a shorter leash in 2008? Maybe. I tend to think idiots will be idiots.
Sullivan's impact as QB Coach is much fuzzier. I didn't see a dramatic change in Eli Manning from 2008-2009 to 2010-2011, or from 2014 to 2015. That's not surprising. When Sullivan took over from Chris Palmer, Eli was already a Super Bowl MVP and a finished product in the Coughlin/Gilbride offense. When Sullivan returned in 2015, Eli had already reached a reasonable level of proficiency in the Coughlin/McAdoo version of the WCO, notwithstanding the rough opener in Detroit and the 5-INT San Fransicso debacle. And since Sullivan had no prior WCO history, it's hard to imagine that he had a big impact in that first year.
Sullivan's popularity has always puzzled me. It's great that Coughlin gave a vet a break, both in Jacksonville and in New York. But was a defensive back from Army, who had never coached on the offensive side of the ball, really the best candidate for the fast track to QB Coach and OC?
Exactly.
Coughlin's background coaching receivers makes it hard to know how much credit he and Sullivan each deserve in that area. In any case, the results were pretty good. Should they have kept Plax on a shorter leash in 2008? Maybe. I tend to think idiots will be idiots.
Sullivan's impact as QB Coach is much fuzzier. I didn't see a dramatic change in Eli Manning from 2008-2009 to 2010-2011, or from 2014 to 2015. That's not surprising. When Sullivan took over from Chris Palmer, Eli was already a Super Bowl MVP and a finished product in the Coughlin/Gilbride offense. When Sullivan returned in 2015, Eli had already reached a reasonable level of proficiency in the Coughlin/McAdoo version of the WCO, notwithstanding the rough opener in Detroit and the 5-INT San Fransicso debacle. And since Sullivan had no prior WCO history, it's hard to imagine that he had a big impact in that first year.
Sullivan's popularity has always puzzled me. It's great that Coughlin gave a vet a break, both in Jacksonville and in New York. But was a defensive back from Army, who had never coached on the offensive side of the ball, really the best candidate for the fast track to QB Coach and OC?
Great post BBB - you always bring good insights with your posts into the backgrounds of coaches and players.
I agree completely - when we hire a new coordinator I always like to research their coaching pedigree, and when we brought Sully here I just couldn't figure out what was supposed to be the big offensive accomplishments he'd had.
I'm thinking he must be a great teacher and/or motivator. Whatever, it is clear that he's not a great offensive mind creatively, and it's also clear that he has failed to get the offense to execute consistently.
I think if you want to last as a coordinator, you better do at least one of those things very, very well. Either come up with creative game plans that leverage mismatches and lead to points, or coach in such a way that your team always executes successfully whatever play is called so there's a chance to win.
To be bad in both ways is the kiss of death.
Best of luck in Denver Coach.