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NGT: Shad Khan lauds Tom Coughlin for Jags success

OdellBeckhamJr : 1/4/2018 9:12 pm
Quote:
The Jaguars won the AFC South for the first time in franchise history, are making their first playoff appearance since 2007 and have their first home playoff game since 1999, and it began when Khan decided to bring in Tom Coughlin, install him above general manager Dave Caldwell in the pecking order and give him total control of all football operations.

"Tom has been a very successful coach," Khan said Thursday from his suite overlooking the field at EverBank Field, where the Jaguars (10-6) will play Buffalo (9-7) on Sunday. "This is a different stage for him. Can he embrace it? I think It turned out better than probably, certainly, I thought it would. And really the credit is to him.

"I can tell you he never asked for the 53-man roster. It was my idea. 'Tom, that means nothing changed [if he didn't give him control]. It's maybe not good for Dave's ego, but there has to be somebody in charge, and it needs to be you.'

It's easy to see why Khan wanted change. The Jaguars were 17-63 since he took over as owner in 2012 and hadn't won more than five games in any of those five seasons. Khan hired Caldwell, who in turn hired Gus Bradley, and they began a complete rebuild beginning in 2013. By the end of the 2016 season, however, it was clear things weren't working, and Khan fired Bradley with two games remaining in the regular season.

He decided to try a different approach and turned to Coughlin, the franchise's inaugural coach, who took the team to a pair of AFC Championship games in the first five seasons of existence and won two Super Bowls with the New York Giants.

"What I felt we lacked was football IQ," Khan said. "You just can't say, 'Let me go to craigslist or backpage.com and get some football IQ.' You want somebody who really has the passion, the emotion, the drive. Nobody really personifies it better than Tom Coughlin.

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well Britt  
LG in NYC : 1/5/2018 1:57 pm : link
in the 2 years that TC left we were better off (or at worst, same) one of the years and worse off the 2nd... now we get to start fresh and will hopefully be better off going forward.

kind of lame to finish off with that when your inconsistencies have been highlighted repeatedly on this thread alone.

T-bone....  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:02 pm : link
I like you a lot, but I feel like you imply that there is something a little sinister in those that seem to excuse Coughlin and Eli and put the blame on Reese. I can't speak for any other poster on BBI other than myself, but I can give you a very simple, logical progression of why I hold the opinion that I do, and why it ultimately falls at Reese's feet.

I was a HUGE supporter of the entire process between 2007 and 2011-12. Huge. In Reese I trust. Argued against anybody that had a bad word to say about the guy, even excused a lot of stuff that happened in 2012. But by 2013, it was clear that the Offensive line had been neglected, and needed to be rebuilt quickly. It was crucial in our entire philosophy that we had been using successfully for years. Gilbride and Coughlin needed it, and Eli needed it. When we had a good offensive line, we were good. We basically had to scrap our entire playbook that we had been using since 2007 after 2013 because the offensive line was a commplete mess. Gilbride lost his job over it. We tried to retool and rebuild, but couldn't. Meanwhile, the defensive roster was also falling to shit, and our drafts were bad, but I believe even then, with a decent offensive line we could have gotten past it. We never got one, and Coughlin was the next to fall. I don't know if Reese convinced McAdoo or McAdoo convinced Reese that that wasn't a big deal, but the complete ignoring of it this past offseason was just another year of neglect that ended the season before it began.

It's a very simple, logical progress that formed my opinion:

1. Offensive line failed
2. Gilbride and Coughlin could not run their system without it.
3. Gilbride, then Coughlin fired.
4. Eli could not operate behind it and is now getting the blame.

It all goes back to the offensive line for me. That's why I blame Reese. And you can say, well Coughlin had input too. Well, Coughlin got fired. This past offseason, Reese made a decision to let it ride with the hopes it was good enough. And it was another bad decision. Teams rebuild lines in single offseasons. Coughlin has helped Jacksonville's line get humming pretty quickly. Reese's has been bad for 7 years.

Nothing more, nothing less, certainly nothing sinister as has been implied in the past, here.
RE: well Britt  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13773732 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
in the 2 years that TC left we were better off (or at worst, same) one of the years and worse off the 2nd... now we get to start fresh and will hopefully be better off going forward.

kind of lame to finish off with that when your inconsistencies have been highlighted repeatedly on this thread alone.


I have not been inconsistent. My opinion has been pretty damn consistent for the past five years, unlike the backtracking and spinning that occurs regularly here in regards to Coughlin, McAdoo, Reese, and Eli.
Britt  
LG in NYC : 1/5/2018 2:05 pm : link
it wasn't ignored... but the decisions they made to "fix" it didn't work. Now, did Reese make all of those decisions by himself? you seem to think so.

Could it be that the recently sainted TC (at least by some here) had a hand in the decisions that have not worked out?
ha  
LG in NYC : 1/5/2018 2:06 pm : link
you've been wildly inconsistent in your arguments on this thread alone.

you are certainly single-minded - I'll give you that... but the logic you and others use to support that single mindedness is flawed at best.
RE: Britt  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13773751 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
it wasn't ignored... but the decisions they made to "fix" it didn't work. Now, did Reese make all of those decisions by himself? you seem to think so.

Could it be that the recently sainted TC (at least by some here) had a hand in the decisions that have not worked out?


The line began falling apart in 2009. It wasn't ignored, but they waited too long to address it, and when they did, they failed in free agency and the draft.
I think all of those that touted the 11-5 record  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:07 pm : link
in saying that McAdoo was great and Coughlin sucked had flawed logic, but we all think each others logic is flawed if we don't agree, don't we?
but according to you  
LG in NYC : 1/5/2018 2:08 pm : link
only Reese is responsible for the failings...

so let's be clear, TC didn't have any input on personnel decisions? is that your position now?
I think he had the biggest part in it, yes.  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:11 pm : link
And I outlined that very clearly.

But I'm not going to sit here and go in circles with the mob. I felt firing Coughlin was the wrong move at the time, and I believe the results have played that out.

That's it. You disagree, fine.
To say TC had no say in personnel decisions  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 2:12 pm : link
Is being very naive. I am with the group that says it was time for both TC and Reese to go.
RE: To say TC had no say in personnel decisions  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13773774 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Is being very naive. I am with the group that says it was time for both TC and Reese to go.


I didn't say that. I said that you can say that he did, but then he got fired. Then I went on to point at this last offseason where the line was completely ignored and deemed good enough as constructed as a solo Reese effort.
RE: I think he had the biggest part in it, yes.  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13773769 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
And I outlined that very clearly.

But I'm not going to sit here and go in circles with the mob. I felt firing Coughlin was the wrong move at the time, and I believe the results have played that out.

That's it. You disagree, fine.


Britt, so when you wax poetic on here about ignoring the OL, isn't that on both Reese AND Coughlin?
See above.  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:23 pm : link
.
Britt  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 2:25 pm : link
I agree about last off season and that being solely on Reese, but for years the drafts and Free Agency were absolutely putrid and play a big part in where the organization is right now.
See that is where you can't have it both ways.  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 2:33 pm : link
You point to last off season and how that is all on Reese. I am pretty sure there is no one on this board that would argue that statement. But what about the previous seasons while TC was here. You agreed that he played a part in personnel decisions, but then in the same statement say it was Reese who is at fault for not addressing or prioritizing certain positions.

Sometimes I think you just argue for the sake of arguing.
Britt  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 2:49 pm : link
I don't believe I've said anything more or less than anyone else has said (and I certainly post less often than most these days) with regards to this issue. If you believe I'm trying to imply anything more or less than anyone else I think that's something you've concocted in your own mind. But please feel free to remind me of anything that I've said with regards to this issue that would make you think that so that I can see for myself.

As LG pointed out two posts after yours that was addressed to me, the O-line hadn't been 'neglected' until this past off-season (which was why I had no issue with Reese being let go now... for him to have no backup plan was inexcusable)... it was simply that the moves that were made didn't work out... and for that, he's been fired. But also has been said, it's not like Reese drafted and signed those players to the team and told Coughlin 'Here ya go... make it work!', which is what you and others seem to imply. In your post you make it sound like you're upset that Coughlin and Gilbride were let go but Reese wasn't... which is how these things usually happen. But I find it hard to believe that HAD Reese been let go along with Coughlin that any of you would hold him in any higher regard than you do now.

Fact: anyone who tries to blame all the failures (or successes for that matter) of the past decade on one single person sounds stupid.
RE: See that is where you can't have it both ways.  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13773810 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
You point to last off season and how that is all on Reese. I am pretty sure there is no one on this board that would argue that statement. But what about the previous seasons while TC was here. You agreed that he played a part in personnel decisions, but then in the same statement say it was Reese who is at fault for not addressing or prioritizing certain positions.

Sometimes I think you just argue for the sake of arguing.


He's right about this. You keep on making excuse after excuse for Coughlin (and they're getting sillier and sillier by the way) .
Oh...  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 2:52 pm : link
and I like you too.

You're constant whining about how poor wittle Eli and Coughlin have suffered so much at the hands of that evil Jerry Reese not withstanding...
Let's put it this way....  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:52 pm : link
If Gettleman doesn't fix the o-line in the next 2-3 years, I'm going to put the blame squarely on Gettleman. Not whomever the new coach is, but Gettleman.
RE: Let's put it this way....  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13773845 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
If Gettleman doesn't fix the o-line in the next 2-3 years, I'm going to put the blame squarely on Gettleman. Not whomever the new coach is, but Gettleman.


And that still doesn't make you right.
It's just my opinion, and it would be consistent.  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 2:55 pm : link
.
Coughlin likely had input on all three of the early drafted linemen  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 3:00 pm : link
in recent years - Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers. If I'm not mistaken, Coughlin was a big Flowers fan at the time he was drafted.
I'm a big time Coughlin believer  
Chris684 : 1/5/2018 3:18 pm : link
but I blame him in large part for the OLd collapse.

The OL rebuild was delayed by several years by his stubborn attachment to the old guard. Hell, re-inserting O'Hara in the starting lineup in 2010 was part of the kiss of death down the stretch.

To their credit, Diehl, Snee and McKenzie performed as valiantly as they could for as long as they could but to have guys retiring during training camp means their rope was too long.
RE: Coughlin likely had input on all three of the early drafted linemen  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13773864 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
in recent years - Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers. If I'm not mistaken, Coughlin was a big Flowers fan at the time he was drafted.


Reese... he must've hypnotized him.
I'm sure it was Reese who didn't want to move on from Chris Snee  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 3:43 pm : link
when it became obvious that he was physically a shell of his All-Pro self.
Greg  
LG in NYC : 1/5/2018 3:49 pm : link
there is a handful of BBIers who would have fit in well on that coaching staff - they never know when it is time to move on from a player or coach!
My argument has always been that they didn't have anybody else  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 3:50 pm : link
to replace them with.
And nobody here knows what the truth is.  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 3:50 pm : link
.
Good for Coughlin  
Les in TO : 1/5/2018 4:03 pm : link
he is finished as a coach - there were so many sloppy, mental mistakes by the 2015 team, that after three prior seasons of missing the playoffs, could no longer be ignored. the mistakes that season were not due to lack of talent but primarily lack of attention to details, rules and other things that fall on a head coach. and he did not receive a coaching job offer after that season - which given his age and recent performances of his teams, made sense.

but he is a good man, coached us to two incredible super bowl runs and I'm glad he is enjoying success in the upper office of an afc team.
RE: And nobody here knows what the truth is.  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13773993 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


And yet that doesn't ever stop you and others from placing all the blame squarely on Reese.
RE: RE: And nobody here knows what the truth is.  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 4:59 pm : link
In comment 13774036 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13773993 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


.



And yet that doesn't ever stop you and others from placing all the blame squarely on Reese.


Or vice versa.
Britt  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 5:03 pm : link
In this ďyou against everyoneĒ crusade you have on BBI, I am unsure if you are just being short sighted, but I am not seeing this everyone blamed Coughlin sentiment. I see everyone saw both as equally to blame with how the roster was constructed and team performance. Which again is why both should have been let go at the same time instead of TC being the scapegoat.
I honestly don't remember there being a large....  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 5:37 pm : link
"both should go" camp.

I was in the "if one should go, both should go" camp, but I also remember thinking that I didn't want anybody to get fired, just stay the course.
So for all the shit you have given Reese  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 5:42 pm : link
(Especially after the TC firing)

You were thinking both should have been retained? Boy you are tough person to reason with. Have a good night.
Britt  
LG in NYC : 1/5/2018 5:47 pm : link
with all due respect, your big sin is not your opinion (which you are entitled to, of course) but rather your incessant cheerleading for Eli week after week as this embarrassing season unfolded.

you didn't just argue with people who criticized Eli...you initiated threads that directly or indirectly praised/absolved Eli while the building was burning.

and you've shown the same unyeilding traits as respects TC... taking any oppty to try and puff your chest about him as if whatever success Jax is having somehow makes you smart and everyone else an idiot.

I am quite sure you wouldn't feel like such a punching bag if you would dial it back a few notches. But instead you have absolutely positioned yourself as "Eli above all other"... seemingly even if it means the team suffers as a result.

Just my 2 cents.
RE: RE: RE: And nobody here knows what the truth is.  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13774092 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13774036 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13773993 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


.



And yet that doesn't ever stop you and others from placing all the blame squarely on Reese.



Or vice versa.


If you could name one or two names or evidence of anyone saying it was ALL Coughlinís fault Iíd appreciate it. Thanks!
Guys, it's as simple as this....  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 7:10 pm : link
I think Eli and Coughlin are two of the greatest Giants of all time. It was a rare era that we were lucky to witness, and if I'm being honest, it will likely be a decade or two before we witness it again (like last time). I'm going to defend them, because I think when the dust settles, in fifty years, they will be the two guys we're talking about. Like Parcells, LT, and Simms, who we hold in such high regard.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And nobody here knows what the truth is.  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 7:11 pm : link
In comment 13774146 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13774092 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13774036 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13773993 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


.



And yet that doesn't ever stop you and others from placing all the blame squarely on Reese.



Or vice versa.



If you could name one or two names or evidence of anyone saying it was ALL Coughlinís fault Iíd appreciate it. Thanks!


I don't have the time or energy to go back two or three years and dig up archived threads, but if you're going to sit there and tell me that there weren't posters that wanted to heap it all on Coughlin, well, we'll just agree to disagree. Thanks.
And if all that makes me a homer,  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 7:17 pm : link
then great, guess what? I'm a homer! I'm the biggest damn Giants homer there is, and I will always root for the greatest Giants, as well as the team.

RE: Guys, it's as simple as this....  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 7:31 pm : link
In comment 13774245 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I think Eli and Coughlin are two of the greatest Giants of all time. It was a rare era that we were lucky to witness, and if I'm being honest, it will likely be a decade or two before we witness it again (like last time). I'm going to defend them, because I think when the dust settles, in fifty years, they will be the two guys we're talking about. Like Parcells, LT, and Simms, who we hold in such high regard.


But you wonít give Reese any credit for his part in that era?

That seems fair. Basically youíve chosen to view only certain members of the organization for the successes and certain ones for the failures instead of giving credit to everyone involved. I donít know what that makes you... but Ďhomerí isnít a word that comes to mind.
RE: And if all that makes me a homer,  
BigBlueShock : 1/5/2018 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13774250 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
then great, guess what? I'm a homer! I'm the biggest damn Giants homer there is, and I will always root for the greatest Giants, as well as the team.

This is exactly the problem. I swear, every one of your posts come across like you think you are involved in some kind of contest to prove who the biggest Giants fan is. Being the biggest Giants homer on the planet is a nice title to give yourself, but if it means putting blinders on and ignoring every single flaw that a player or coach may have isnít something to be proud of. It doesnít make you a better fan. It makes you an ignorant fan.

Eli and TC are Giants legends forever. Itís ok to admit that they are/were far from perfect and had their warts. Unless of course youíre looking for a prize for your ignorance/allegiance.
RE: RE: Guys, it's as simple as this....  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 7:36 pm : link
In comment 13774266 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13774245 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I think Eli and Coughlin are two of the greatest Giants of all time. It was a rare era that we were lucky to witness, and if I'm being honest, it will likely be a decade or two before we witness it again (like last time). I'm going to defend them, because I think when the dust settles, in fifty years, they will be the two guys we're talking about. Like Parcells, LT, and Simms, who we hold in such high regard.



But you wonít give Reese any credit for his part in that era?

That seems fair. Basically youíve chosen to view only certain members of the organization for the successes and certain ones for the failures instead of giving credit to everyone involved. I donít know what that makes you... but Ďhomerí isnít a word that comes to mind.


On that note, bowing out of the conversation.
RE: RE: RE: Guys, it's as simple as this....  
T-Bone : 1/5/2018 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13774273 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13774266 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13774245 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I think Eli and Coughlin are two of the greatest Giants of all time. It was a rare era that we were lucky to witness, and if I'm being honest, it will likely be a decade or two before we witness it again (like last time). I'm going to defend them, because I think when the dust settles, in fifty years, they will be the two guys we're talking about. Like Parcells, LT, and Simms, who we hold in such high regard.



But you wonít give Reese any credit for his part in that era?

That seems fair. Basically youíve chosen to view only certain members of the organization for the successes and certain ones for the failures instead of giving credit to everyone involved. I donít know what that makes you... but Ďhomerí isnít a word that comes to mind.



On that note, bowing out of the conversation.


Just to be clear about what I said above Britt... I honestly donít think Ďhomerí is applicable to you in this case. When I think of a Ďhomerí I think of someone who blindly agrees with every move their favorite team makes and you donít do that. You (unfairly IMO) blindly blame any and all success to Coughlin and Eli and everything thatís gone wrong has been Reeseís fault. I honestly donít even know how you can reach that conclusion... and yes, Iíd argue against anyone who believes that the teamís struggles were because of only Coughlin or Eli. Iíd hope those three individuals would agree with my stance.

Anyway, I like ya enough to feel the need to clarify myself for you because I donít want you to have the impression that I had a Ďwordí in mind. I didnít and still donít. We can disagree with this but itís not that serious...
Cool.  
Britt in VA : 1/5/2018 8:46 pm : link
Just because I don't view Reese as an "all time great" doesn't mean I don't acknowledge his part in the era. I don't view George Young as an all time great either..

Head coach and QB are premier positions. GM is a behind the scenes thing. If you notice, I'm the one that started the Jerry Reese appreciation thread after he was fired. I acknowledge and appreciate everything he did for the Giants, not only as a GM, but everything before. But at the end of the day, he was the GM, and I hold him accountable for the personnel. Everybody else has been held accountable and now everybody (except Eli, although not for long) is gone.

We can all agree that we're Giants fans and we want the best for the Giants for the next 20-30 years as well.
I will definitely start the Eli Manning Appreciation thread  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2018 9:18 pm : link
in a few months...
Khan !!!!!!!!  
mrvax : 1/5/2018 9:23 pm : link
Sorry. I just had to do that.
RE: The dudes with pitchforks on BBI will never learn....  
Thegratefulhead : 1/5/2018 10:16 pm : link
In comment 13772907 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They will just continue their crusade of scapegoating and assigning blame to the wrong people, and then aggressively and stupidly defend their stance, often doubling down by making up stupid narratives and twisting bizarre statistics to try and prove their original stance after it's clear as day that they were wrong, wrong wrong....
I want to punch you sometimes. Ownership got it wrong with for sure. It should have been Reese, but people thinking TC should be gone were not crazy either. His recent record was not good in what have you done for me lately league. He made some bad 4th quarter decisions. I loved TC, still do, but people were not stupid, there were legitimate reasons to question TC. Even though I was against his firing the argument against him wasn't stupid or based in crazy stats. It was W/Ls.
Not sure why there is such a heated argument..  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/5/2018 11:12 pm : link
it's blatantly obvious this team was making terrible personnel decisions the last few years. I don't care if Coughlin made every single one while he was here, it's ultimately the responsibility of the GM. If the GM is dumb enough to let the coach do his job...he should still get shitcanned if the product on the field is trash. Reese should have gone awhile ago. But hey...at least we have Eli Apple....
Bottom line without having to go  
Bleedin Blue : 1/6/2018 2:59 pm : link
Back and forth, the house should've been cleaned when TC got canned! The ensuing 11-5 season was fools gold! The offense still sucked and the defense had a $250 million B-12 shot!
Hopefully we're back on track, let's get a new coaching staff and right this ship!
Hopefully Bortles  
Carson53 : 1/7/2018 9:40 am : link
stinks up the joint today, and Coughlin wants to trade
for Eli, before his 5 mill. bonus is due in March.
That would be best for everybody concerned, start anew
with a new GM & HC, and QB. That might be too much to ask
for the Giants and Mara...Most of the team was already there when Coughlin took over, they brought in Bouje and
Calais Campbell as free agents on defense, the team had
good defensive pieces in place, and they drafted a RB.
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