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Fans have every right to be cynical about this, and I have no doubt they will be, but sources with knowledge of the Mets' plans are telling me the front office will do more to improve the team this winter than is being portrayed publicly. Nevertheless, one name I heard mentioned on Thursday was Mike Moustakas, the third baseman who hit 38 home runs for the Royals last season, and so far seems to have generated limited interest at best. Nobody was saying the Mets are ready to swoop in and sign him, but it seems fair to say the team is monitoring his situation, well aware there aren't many potential landing spots for third baseman looking for long-term deals. |
How is that productive? Cespedes, when healthy, is the Mets best or 2nd best hitter, and is not going to be replaced any free agent.
#Mets, #Pirates have discussed McCutchen, just as they did last off-season, sources tell The Athletic. No deal close; NYM weighing variety of moves, and FAs appear more realistic than trades given lack of depth in system. McCutchen set to earn $14.75M in final year of deal.
Someone should set up a go fund me for the Mets, if nothing else maybe the story would get picked up by the media and embarrass them...
I agree. Last year his slugging % spiked, maybe it was improvement maybe it was an outlier, but there's little else positive beyond that and his defensive dropoff was apparently significant. Hard pass unless it's a very low risk deal.
"Moustakass average fly ball traveled 326 feet last season, up from 308 feet in the first half of 2015 and 317 feet in the second half of 2015, when the ball is suspected to have changed. He hit 16 fly balls that averaged 332 feet of distance in his injury-shortened 2016."
However, the article also says that since he's an extreme fly ball and pull hitter, his batted balls don't really profile too well at Citi Field.
Mike Moustakas Is the Former Royal You Want - ( New Window )
LOL, of course.
I'm not even crazy about Moustakas - I just laugh knowing that this is how the Mets operate. They need the market to "bottom out" on a player in order to sign him.
Pathetic.
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spoke to someone in the know. Highly unlikely they sign Moustakas. Would need the market to bottom out.
LOL, of course.
I'm not even crazy about Moustakas - I just laugh knowing that this is how the Mets operate. They need the market to "bottom out" on a player in order to sign him.
Pathetic.
LOL exactly! Dan's quote isn't exclusive to Moose, it applies to every free agent. "Mets aren't interested unless the market bottoms out"
And just so everyone knows, I want NO part of trading either one of them, I love both of them, but what's the point of keeping them and not improving the roster?
If they moved Jake this past deadline they could have cleaned out the Astros farm system and totally replenished.
It was the same with the Wright contract that was a total disaster from the day he signed it. Wright's value to a ballclub was never going to line up with the longer term plan of the years it took to groom these pitchers.
WTF is this franchise doing? Does anyone know anymore? Not spend enough to be a contender but spend enough so the blind Met fan will still buy his 10 pack season ticket plan?
Maybe they can get some reclamation projects coming off major injury and a guy trying to resurrect his career coming back from Japan or Mexico.
The Mets are gonna surprise you with just how much they spend on a fourth outfielder and second LOOGy.
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
14h14 hours ago
(To be fair they do desperately need another outfielder as I think Champ Stuart is legit fourth on the depth chart if Conforto isnt ready for Opening Day)
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
14h14 hours ago
(And given that the other outfielders are Lagares, Nimmo, and Cespedes, the odds that all three are healthy on Opening Day also isnt great)
Great point about Thor/ Degrom. You have two aces in their prime. If you're not going to try to compete now, when will you?
And just so everyone knows, I want NO part of trading either one of them, I love both of them, but what's the point of keeping them and not improving the roster?
If they moved Jake this past deadline they could have cleaned out the Astros farm system and totally replenished.
It was the same with the Wright contract that was a total disaster from the day he signed it. Wright's value to a ballclub was never going to line up with the longer term plan of the years it took to groom these pitchers.
WTF is this franchise doing? Does anyone know anymore? Not spend enough to be a contender but spend enough so the blind Met fan will still buy his 10 pack season ticket plan?
That IS the plan. Keep Mets fans spending
Jenrry Mejia!
(I'm serious - we signed him to a 1.7M deal to avoid arbitration)
LOL
WTF is this franchise doing? Does anyone know anymore? Not spend enough to be a contender but spend enough so the blind Met fan will still buy his 10 pack season ticket plan?
That's exactly what they're doing.
He signed Cespedes because the market fell apart for him. Thats literally the only reason.
If that's our strategy, we're fucked. Because that's not how winning teams operate.
He's also not going to collect any of that money. Player on drug suspensions don't get paid.
I wonder if the Mets though will count this money in their payroll numbers.
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that Sandy waited out the market the exact same way last year and signed his two biggest free agents (Cespedes and Blevins) extremely late in the offseason. It's like it's a complete shock that this is how this guy operates? Why? I believe this article and that most of the money issues are smoke to leverage negotiations and Sandy will still sign a couple guys late in the offseason once he gets them at "his" price. Still plenty of good players in play.
He signed Cespedes because the market fell apart for him. Thats literally the only reason.
If that's our strategy, we're fucked. Because that's not how winning teams operate.
last championship 1986. We will keep counting that championship anniversary for decades
His last two offseasons weren't models of success? Going to the WS, postseason, and into a year that every person on earth predicted 90-ish wins screamed failure to you? interesting.
The reality is that the 2017 Mets sucked and were out of contention by the 4th of July.
No matter what people thought going into the season, the team wound up being awful. Sandy gets a pass on that just because it was less expected?
We've done nothing but go backwards since the WS so far and it looks like we're still moving in the wrong direction.
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that Sandy waited out the market the exact same way last year and signed his two biggest free agents (Cespedes and Blevins) extremely late in the offseason. It's like it's a complete shock that this is how this guy operates? Why? I believe this article and that most of the money issues are smoke to leverage negotiations and Sandy will still sign a couple guys late in the offseason once he gets them at "his" price. Still plenty of good players in play.
He signed Cespedes because the market fell apart for him. Thats literally the only reason.
If that's our strategy, we're fucked. Because that's not how winning teams operate.
I believe it is his strategy. Not to overpay plain and simple. Ill wait until the offseason is over before I comment on whether it worked out this year or not.
This team is nowhere near a contender right now. Not even close.
Unless he gets really creative, it's going to be another long season for us.
This team is nowhere near a contender right now. Not even close.
Unless he gets really creative, it's going to be another long season for us.
Disagree. The two biggest losses that sank our season were Syndergaard and Familia in early April and neither had any previous injury history. At least nothing, major. Cespedes was pretty much useless all year too and we would have never signed him to a 100 million plus deal if we thought he would have been injured all year.
I do agree the roster is worse now though after losing Grandy, Bruce, Walker, Reed, Duda, ect. He absolutely needs to add more talent.
And I don't have a whole lot of faith in this turning into a contender when we have about 10M total to fix it.
As for the rest of the team we need key players to return to health and stay healthy. I'm not talking about lost causes like Wheeler and Harvey.
Im talking about Cespedes, Conforto, Syndergaard, and Familia. The cornerstones of the roster.
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and outside of twice resigning Cespedes I don't think Sandy's previous offseasons have ever been models of success.
His last two offseasons weren't models of success? Going to the WS, postseason, and into a year that every person on earth predicted 90-ish wins screamed failure to you? interesting.
The WS year they were under .500 at the deadline despite having the best pitching in baseball because they didn't do what they needed to in the offseason. Forget Cespedes, Uribe, KJ and Clippard were enormously important acquisitions for roles that were mindlessly ignored in the offseason after lighting money on fire to signing Cuddyer and "the best pinch hitter in baseball" John Mayberry.
The WC year they were around .500 at the deadline, and actually under .500 in early August. Then they went on a run in large part thanks to Lugo and Gsellman.
Last year he stood pat with almost the exact same roster as the Wild Card year to obviously terrible results.
So resigning Cespedes aside, since that was just a function of market prices, which one of those offseasons was Sandy's best in your mind? The WS year he signed Cuddyer for $25M and gave up a first round pick day 1? The year he let Murphy go for almost nothing? Or last year when he mindlessly blew his entire budget signing Walker for $17M?
I'd offer them anything they want other than Rosario for Yelich and Prado. Dom Smith, Gimenez, and whoever they want as the 3rd prospect (and 4th prospect if nec). That package would be reasonably comparable talent level-wise to what STL put together for Ozuna. Obviously Yelich has a better contract than Ozuna but having to take on Prado's $30M diminishes that.
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Rosario+ (plus may be a lot) for Yelich, Realmuto and Prado. Maybe even have to take on Chen and or Castro.
I'd offer them anything they want other than Rosario for Yelich and Prado. Dom Smith, Gimenez, and whoever they want as the 3rd prospect (and 4th prospect if nec). That package would be reasonably comparable talent level-wise to what STL put together for Ozuna. Obviously Yelich has a better contract than Ozuna but having to take on Prado's $30M diminishes that.
If you can get it done without Rosario obviously preferable, but I doubt it. That's why I added in Realmuto though.
He's still young-ish and a top 5 catcher the past two years.
I'd prefer Castro over Prado.
Truthfully though, the most sensible thing for the Mets to do would be sign Cain and just trade Lagares for a 2B like Kipinis. Yes it's a risk because he's older, but Cain and Yelich are extremely similar players. Cain's contract would hopefully be somewhere in the range of what they gave Granderson 4 years ago and they'd get to save all their prospects to not further decimate the system.
----------------Cain ---- Yelich
Career BA-----.290------.290
2017 BA ------.300------.282
Career OBP---.342------.369
2017 OBP-----.363------.369
Career K%-----18%------20%
Career BB%----7%-------11%
Career SLG%--.421-----.432%
2017 SLG%----.440%---.439%
Last year Cain had 26 steals to Yelich's 16 and played better defense. Over their career's Cain's defense has been much better, but since he's older it's probably going to be similar going forward. Again, all things equal I'd prefer Yelich by a solid margin but considering 1 of them is a FA that costs nothing but money...it should be a no brainer for a NY team.
They made the WS in 2015. I cant take that away. Reality is that it was still a deeply flawed team that got hot at the right time, took advantage of an imploding better team (Nationals) only to then turn back into a pumpkin in the WS. This was the time to build off the WS roster but this never actually happened.
2016 was a step backwards. Another mediocre season only to AGAIN turn it on at the very end of the season, end up 8 games out of first place, but secure a wild card to earn the opportunity to GET INTO the playoffs. Which didnt actually happen.
They won 90 and 87 games, respectively. Hardly a powerhouse. Reality is that they have been a thoroughly mediocre (if not bad) team that were lucky to even sniff the success they had those two years. But Sandys true team eventually showed up.
2017 was an abortion of a season. From top to bottom. Lack of oversight with their star players training methods (which clearly led to their eventual injuries), short sighted view with their starting staff, same reliance on HRs while not improving their glaring flaws, crappy defense, horrible leadership.
Nobody WANTS to overpay players but I hate to tell you...its a part of the game and how successful teams are built. But Sandys plan is clearly working. We are in great shape.
Yeah, except for the fact that the Yankees are willing to spend money.
Sign Cain.
Trade for Kipinis or Gordon at 2nd.
And those are just the simplest, easiest, least creative additions ~8 WAR possible for about $40M.
And to be clear, I don't blame Sandy for not having the extra $40M. That's 100% ownership, not him. I just think it's comical to act like Sandy has perfected some brilliant marketplace strategy within that constraint. He paid Neil Walker coming off back surgery more money last year than his entire budget for this year.
There are plenty of good players on the board still. If prices come down and Sandy ends up getting a Bruce or a Cain and a Moustakas or a Frazier I think he will not only have done a good job but once again outsmarted the market.
The 10 million figure is BS IMO. Some beat's opinion everyone ran with...
We have to stay healthy though on top of bringing in a couple of guys. I will keep saying it until the I'm blue in the face. You simply cant not lose all your best players to injury and compete in this sport.
That aside, think about how many teams could survive losing a bonafide ace ala Harvey. That's a franchise crippling loss for most teams and he's pretty much a nonfactor now. We were still built to win in spite of losing a player of that caliber.
Cant really fault Sandy for some of the cards he was dealt over the last couple of years.
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In comment 13774713 Eric on Li said:
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and outside of twice resigning Cespedes I don't think Sandy's previous offseasons have ever been models of success.
His last two offseasons weren't models of success? Going to the WS, postseason, and into a year that every person on earth predicted 90-ish wins screamed failure to you? interesting.
The WS year they were under .500 at the deadline despite having the best pitching in baseball because they didn't do what they needed to in the offseason. Forget Cespedes, Uribe, KJ and Clippard were enormously important acquisitions for roles that were mindlessly ignored in the offseason after lighting money on fire to signing Cuddyer and "the best pinch hitter in baseball" John Mayberry.
The WC year they were around .500 at the deadline, and actually under .500 in early August. Then they went on a run in large part thanks to Lugo and Gsellman.
Last year he stood pat with almost the exact same roster as the Wild Card year to obviously terrible results.
So resigning Cespedes aside, since that was just a function of market prices, which one of those offseasons was Sandy's best in your mind? The WS year he signed Cuddyer for $25M and gave up a first round pick day 1? The year he let Murphy go for almost nothing? Or last year when he mindlessly blew his entire budget signing Walker for $17M?
First of all. A roster isn't decided by free agency. The 2015-2017 rosters were built on a rebuild that happened 3-4 years prior. The team didnt need big piece free agents until they did. Granderson, Colon, ect were nice vets added to supplement all the young talent breaking in. When we needed that final piece we went for it ala Cespedes, Clippard, ect.. Second of all... the Mets didnt have the best pitching in baseball in 2015... they did in 2016.... and both of those seasons we dealt with a shit ton of injuries as well.... We simply weathered the storms... Nothing can compare to what happened to 2017 though... a complete blackout.
In Oakland he consistently had among the highest payrolls in the league - especially relative to their market.
It was only once the team was sold and he was instructed to slash payroll he became a moneyball disciple.
Now those A's teams weren't built solely in FA's, he had back to back to back rookies of the year, with Canseco, McGwire and Weiss, so there was good scouting he seems to have lost along the way but they all got paid with the A's.
and he did bring in free agents and traded for players like Dave Stewart, Eck, Henderson, etc.
San Diego also a small market team with traditionally low payrolls while Sandy was there, I think it was by order not by choice.
I just don't believe if he had a blank check Sandy Alderson would say no F it, I don't need that money to spend on free agents to augment/build our team I think we're ok dumpster diving.
I also don't think the money ball approach can win the WS or build a consistent winner in this era. Everyone though the Royals would defy logic, but now they're back to mediocrity after two good years (kind of like the Mets except the Royals sealed the deal).
Most of the playoff teams in MLB are among the highest payrolls.
Every now and then you have a team pop up like the Astros or Rays, but the Astros (like the Rays before them) had the #1 pick in baseball three years in a row and the #2 pick the next year and some shrewd IFA signings.
but those teams success are only sustainable until players have to get paid, unless they decide to pay them (see the Rays)
Sandy has been GM of the Mets since 2010. They've made the division series once during that span. IMO, that's just not good enough after being GM for so long. They need to get back there in 2018 IMO.
The 10 million figure is BS IMO. Some beat's opinion everyone ran with...
Come on, it wasn't Sherman's "opinion", he clearly said the figure came from his contacts within the organization. Not you can quibble with the veracity of that figure, but to cal it an opinion is pure homerism.
Based on them still needing markets to "bottom out" to sign anyone, I'm guessing it's more accurate than you think, Z.
That is not accurate at all. Going into 2015 a lot of people complained about the Cuddyer signing and most were dumbfounded they were penciling Flores in at SS without a backup plan. Writers were openly mocking them. The offense was predictably pathetic up until the moment they made acquisitions. When Uribe got traded in June and the Mets were rolling out Soup and Mayberry plenty of people said it was insane that they never add players. Then they got Uribe/KJ 2 months later and he made a big impact.
Going into 2016 I grant you that we were all thrilled to just get Cespedes back, but going into last year many were worried about the BP and disappointed they opted to bring back injury prone vets who didn't work out in 2016 - chiefly Walker. There was definitely cautious optimism but the BP falling apart was a concern.
In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:
Cant really fault Sandy for some of the cards he was dealt over the last couple of years.
Yes, we can. We can fault him for signing an over the hill and injury prone Cuddyer and throwing away a first round pick. We can fault him for ignoring the BP for years, which led to Familia pitching more than anyone else in baseball and eventually getting hurt. We can fault him for the teams training staff and handling of injured players in general. And we can fault him for only acquiring 1 veteran impact player over his entire regime - Cespedes. I guess maybe you can expand that to 2, with Granderson, though he really only had 1 great season here. Not surprisingly those are also the 2 biggest contracts he's given out.
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Nobody was complaining heading into the last three seasons.
That is not accurate at all. Going into 2015 a lot of people complained about the Cuddyer signing and most were dumbfounded they were penciling Flores in at SS without a backup plan. Writers were openly mocking them. The offense was predictably pathetic up until the moment they made acquisitions. When Uribe got traded in June and the Mets were rolling out Soup and Mayberry plenty of people said it was insane that they never add players. Then they got Uribe/KJ 2 months later and he made a big impact.
Going into 2016 I grant you that we were all thrilled to just get Cespedes back, but going into last year many were worried about the BP and disappointed they opted to bring back injury prone vets who didn't work out in 2016 - chiefly Walker. There was definitely cautious optimism but the BP falling apart was a concern.
In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:
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Cant really fault Sandy for some of the cards he was dealt over the last couple of years.
Yes, we can. We can fault him for signing an over the hill and injury prone Cuddyer and throwing away a first round pick. We can fault him for ignoring the BP for years, which led to Familia pitching more than anyone else in baseball and eventually getting hurt. We can fault him for the teams training staff and handling of injured players in general. And we can fault him for only acquiring 1 veteran impact player over his entire regime - Cespedes. I guess maybe you can expand that to 2, with Granderson, though he really only had 1 great season here. Not surprisingly those are also the 2 biggest contracts he's given out.
Well I believe everything you said wasnt accurate at all. Giving Cuddyer a 2 year deal did absolutely nothing to hurt the franchise except forfeiting the pick but considering we actually did go to the WS that year Sandy was vindicated in adding a "final piece" type which is exactly when you give up a pick. The Mets dealt with many injuries in the first half of 2015 that effected the lineup as well but most importantly, their best hitter wasn't even called up until August of that year. Nobody had a better August/September than Conforto. The whole thing was a rebuild and that was basically the beginning of everything we had hoped to accomplish. If you think Soup and Mayberry were supposed to be major components of any team, you are full of it. As for going into last year? Huh? The bullpen was the absolute best in baseball the year prior and they brought back the whole thing. There were posters in here saying there would be no way we would offer Reed arbitration because he would be too expensive yet that's exactly what we did. We picked up Bruce's option, we spent a good amount of money bringing Walker back... The Mets did plenty last year to bring in just as talented a roster as 2015/2016.
Based on them still needing markets to "bottom out" to sign anyone, I'm guessing it's more accurate than you think, Z.
We shall see indeed. I hear this crap every single year and all the payroll does is go up since the talent started hitting the majors. Are we in the upper echelon? No. But Sandy absolutely spreads smoke to give him leverage in negotiations.
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The 10 million figure is BS IMO. Some beat's opinion everyone ran with...
Come on, it wasn't Sherman's "opinion", he clearly said the figure came from his contacts within the organization. Not you can quibble with the veracity of that figure, but to cal it an opinion is pure homerism.
No he didn't. He said based on conversations he had with people inside and outside the organization he DEDUCED (as in guessed) the Mets had roughly 10 million to spend. He absolutely never said he spoke to anyone directly about a payroll number.
Sandy has been GM of the Mets since 2010. They've made the division series once during that span. IMO, that's just not good enough after being GM for so long. They need to get back there in 2018 IMO.
I think you're a great poster here but it's exactly that kind of sweeping logic that drives me insane. When Sandy got here he was in bad contract hell (Bay, Castillo, Perez, Santana, ect.), the Madoff stuff was just hitting and he was asked to slash payroll, AND rebuild the system/team from scratch. Syndergaard, Conforto, Matz, ect. didnt even get called up until MID 2015... the year we went to the WS. Not a single one of his top picks made the majors before that year. 2015-2017 IS the window on which he should be judged IMO. Criticizing him on 2011 makes no sense.
Look. Sandy was a hero after 2015/2016. Now everyone wants to drag him through the mud and ignore he lost 4 of his top 5 players to injury last year (Syndergaard, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto...not to mention Harvey the year prior). That's fine. There's really no sense in arguing it until we see how the team responds. The Mets currently have one player on their roster over 31 not named Wright. It's actually too young IMO. He needs to sprinkle in a few more vets. If he doesn't and we struggle Ill be right here criticizing him mid 2018 but I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt at least until we see A.) the complete roster after the offseason is complete and B.) How the team bounces back from all the injuries we've suffered.
All of us are just pissing in the wind until that happens. The proof will be in the pudding.
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the team into a consistent contender or else you need to find a new GM. After a large enough sample size, I'm not willing to accept excuses made for a GM's failures.
Sandy has been GM of the Mets since 2010. They've made the division series once during that span. IMO, that's just not good enough after being GM for so long. They need to get back there in 2018 IMO.
I think you're a great poster here but it's exactly that kind of sweeping logic that drives me insane. When Sandy got here he was in bad contract hell (Bay, Castillo, Perez, Santana, ect.), the Madoff stuff was just hitting and he was asked to slash payroll, AND rebuild the system/team from scratch. Syndergaard, Conforto, Matz, ect. didnt even get called up until MID 2015... the year we went to the WS. Not a single one of his top picks made the majors before that year. 2015-2017 IS the window on which he should be judged IMO. Criticizing him on 2011 makes no sense.
Look. Sandy was a hero after 2015/2016. Now everyone wants to drag him through the mud and ignore he lost 4 of his top 5 players to injury last year (Syndergaard, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto...not to mention Harvey the year prior). That's fine. There's really no sense in arguing it until we see how the team responds. The Mets currently have one player on their roster over 31 not named Wright. It's actually too young IMO. He needs to sprinkle in a few more vets. If he doesn't and we struggle Ill be right here criticizing him mid 2018 but I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt at least until we see A.) the complete roster after the offseason is complete and B.) How the team bounces back from all the injuries we've suffered.
All of us are just pissing in the wind until that happens. The proof will be in the pudding.
Fair enough points Z, and yea, there's certainly a possibility of a major on-field rebound next year with some health and some luck.
I'm just frustrated with the state of the whole organization right now. The injuries were brutal last year and its hard to blame the GM for that, but I think it's fair to criticize him for the weak farm system and lack of depth in the bullpen last year. Collins' miss-use of the pen falls on Alderson, as does the universally maligned Mets training staff, since all of these guys are Alderson hires or guys that Alderson has the option to replace.
I'm of course willing to cut him some slack if the team and farm system rebounds in 2018, but I think you also have to understand why a lot of Met fans aren't happy right now.
Hopefully they can improve the team a bit before the offseason is over.
15th (which actually isn't accurate as it doesn't include -15 for David Wright).
15th
19th
21st
17th
15th (which actually isn't accurate as it doesn't include -15 for David Wright).
15th
19th
21st
Ideally, we'd all like to see them in the top 5 range for most years, and with a new owner, I think that's possible.
Even having said that, if the Mets were in the 6-10 range most years (with things fluctuating year to year), I think most of us would be fine with that. Being outside the top 10, even outside the top 15, when the Mets are charging NYC prices for parking and concessions just isn't fair to the fans. It creates a self-reinforcing cycle where the fans won't come out to games, and then the Mets have to try and giveaway tickets at the last minute through some sort of deal and you have Islander style 10K people actually at the game on weeknights.
1) That Mets fans expect to be the Dodgers or Yankees
2) People have yet to adjust their minds to inflation. Teams 13-15-16 in 25 man payrolls were 154, 151, 140. Spending 140-150 million is no longer a "big" payroll. It's firmly average.
3) Even taking THAT into account the #10 payroll in baseball opening day was 164 million, the Mets minus David Wright came in at 141 million. For 23 million dollars (and that's not even being "greedy" and expecting to be top 5 etc, imagine the talent you could have. The #8 payroll (again not being greedy and expecting to be the Dodgers) opening day payroll was 32 million more than the Mets.
4) Steve Phillips flat out acknowledged that unlike most teams, the Mets payroll is directly tied to attendance which means if the Mets have a really bad season, this is compounded because it means spending is coming down. The problem is made worse.
5) The draft/development has been disastrous and unlike bringing in a new medical staff to my knowledge NOTHING has changed in the off-season. Why should anyone be optimistic?
6) For whatever the season the FO does not believe in making use of the Rule 5, waivers or even smaller trades. People like to focus on the Yankee payroll, what does their payroll have to do with guys like Chad Green, Didi, Aaron Hicks? Where are the Nate Karns for Dyson gambles?
1) That Mets fans expect to be the Dodgers or Yankees
2) People have yet to adjust their minds to inflation. Teams 13-15-16 in 25 man payrolls were 154, 151, 140. Spending 140-150 million is no longer a "big" payroll. It's firmly average.
3) Even taking THAT into account the #10 payroll in baseball opening day was 164 million, the Mets minus David Wright came in at 141 million. For 23 million dollars (and that's not even being "greedy" and expecting to be top 5 etc, imagine the talent you could have. The #8 payroll (again not being greedy and expecting to be the Dodgers) opening day payroll was 32 million more than the Mets.
4) Steve Phillips flat out acknowledged that unlike most teams, the Mets payroll is directly tied to attendance which means if the Mets have a really bad season, this is compounded because it means spending is coming down. The problem is made worse.
5) The draft/development has been disastrous and unlike bringing in a new medical staff to my knowledge NOTHING has changed in the off-season. Why should anyone be optimistic?
6) For whatever the season the FO does not believe in making use of the Rule 5, waivers or even smaller trades. People like to focus on the Yankee payroll, what does their payroll have to do with guys like Chad Green, Didi, Aaron Hicks? Where are the Nate Karns for Dyson gambles?
this x1m. The org is a joke and while Sandy is not a joke, he's a decent GM, he hasn't done a very good job. His regime deserves credit for acquiring Thor, developing JDG, developing Familia, drafting Conforto, but there have been far too many misses along the way and even 8 offseasons later there's no coherent strategy. Acquire flawed and cheap stop gaps, pray for the health of the pitchers, rinse and repeat.
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New Post: Syndergaard Says Hes Never Felt Better http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=252495 #Mets #LGM
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the fallacy of the payroll argument
1) That Mets fans expect to be the Dodgers or Yankees
2) People have yet to adjust their minds to inflation. Teams 13-15-16 in 25 man payrolls were 154, 151, 140. Spending 140-150 million is no longer a "big" payroll. It's firmly average.
3) Even taking THAT into account the #10 payroll in baseball opening day was 164 million, the Mets minus David Wright came in at 141 million. For 23 million dollars (and that's not even being "greedy" and expecting to be top 5 etc, imagine the talent you could have. The #8 payroll (again not being greedy and expecting to be the Dodgers) opening day payroll was 32 million more than the Mets.
4) Steve Phillips flat out acknowledged that unlike most teams, the Mets payroll is directly tied to attendance which means if the Mets have a really bad season, this is compounded because it means spending is coming down. The problem is made worse.
5) The draft/development has been disastrous and unlike bringing in a new medical staff to my knowledge NOTHING has changed in the off-season. Why should anyone be optimistic?
6) For whatever the season the FO does not believe in making use of the Rule 5, waivers or even smaller trades. People like to focus on the Yankee payroll, what does their payroll have to do with guys like Chad Green, Didi, Aaron Hicks? Where are the Nate Karns for Dyson gambles?
this x1m. The org is a joke and while Sandy is not a joke, he's a decent GM, he hasn't done a very good job. His regime deserves credit for acquiring Thor, developing JDG, developing Familia, drafting Conforto, but there have been far too many misses along the way and even 8 offseasons later there's no coherent strategy. Acquire flawed and cheap stop gaps, pray for the health of the pitchers, rinse and repeat.
7 offseasons.
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Newsday SportsVerified account @NewsdaySports
#Mets still interested in signing Jay Bruce and Addison Reed, source says | @newsdaymarcus https://nwsdy.li/2DehD8r
It's not even that they're bad players - it just screams "lack of creativity" - it's like all we know are these same guys we keep rostering.
It would be nice to see the Mets make an acquisition that's a little off the radar or outside the box, but I'm not holding my breath.
Instead, we'll re-acquire the same players we weren't good enough to win with the first time they were here.
Agreed.
In 8 offseasons here's a list of Sandy's good moves:
1. Dickey trade (saved $)
2. Granderson ($60M)
3. Colon ($20M)
4. Cabrera ($24M)
5. Resigning Cespedes ($135M)
<end of list>
I mean, maybe you could expand it to add Walker but he was basically hurt for most of 2 years and way overpaid the 2nd year. There are teams in recent years who have made more big moves and spent more in 1 offseason than Sandy has made in his entire tenure - Cubs, Yankees, Nats, etc. The lack of talent acquisitions in the offseason is one of the main reasons this franchise doesn't consistently compete with those teams during the season.
I dont get this logic. Cespedes? Sure. He's awful in CF. Conforto was pretty close to average there though. He's a much better CF than Nimmo was and everyone seems fine with a Lagares/Nimmo platoon. I dont get that one.
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my bad. Time flies.
In 8 offseasons here's a list of Sandy's good moves:
1. Dickey trade (saved $)
2. Granderson ($60M)
3. Colon ($20M)
4. Cabrera ($24M)
5. Resigning Cespedes ($135M)
<end of list>
I mean, maybe you could expand it to add Walker but he was basically hurt for most of 2 years and way overpaid the 2nd year. There are teams in recent years who have made more big moves and spent more in 1 offseason than Sandy has made in his entire tenure - Cubs, Yankees, Nats, etc. The lack of talent acquisitions in the offseason is one of the main reasons this franchise doesn't consistently compete with those teams during the season.
LOL.
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In comment 13780843 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
my bad. Time flies.
In 8 offseasons here's a list of Sandy's good moves:
1. Dickey trade (saved $)
2. Granderson ($60M)
3. Colon ($20M)
4. Cabrera ($24M)
5. Resigning Cespedes ($135M)
<end of list>
I mean, maybe you could expand it to add Walker but he was basically hurt for most of 2 years and way overpaid the 2nd year. There are teams in recent years who have made more big moves and spent more in 1 offseason than Sandy has made in his entire tenure - Cubs, Yankees, Nats, etc. The lack of talent acquisitions in the offseason is one of the main reasons this franchise doesn't consistently compete with those teams during the season.
LOL.
Which part of my post isn't true? Omitting John Mayberry? AdA?
1.) QO Walker (Walker had a good season)
2.) Picking up Bruce's option (Bruce had a good season)
3.) Offering arbitration to Reed (Reed had a good year)
4.) Signing Cespedes to a 4 year deal.
5.) Signing Blevins to a two year deal.
6.) Drafting Peterson (viewed favorably)
7.) Drafted Vientos (viewed favorably)
8.) Successfully traded Granderson in a suppressed market
9.) Successfully traded Walker in a suppressed market
10.) Successfully traded Duda in a suppressed market
11.) Successfully traded Reed in a suppressed market
12.) Successfully traded Bruce in a suppressed market
ect. ect.
Sandy's worst move ever is probably Cuddyer... A guy that hit league average and he had to pay for a whopping one season.
And we gave away the #15 draft pick for that one whopping season.
Nice list tho.
Kind of ridiculous then since being a GM is a 365 day a year job but even still Walker, Bruce, Reed, ect all happened in the offseason. Either way, he wasnt really in a position to be adding talent to supplement the youth until the last three years or so but even so I can still rattle off Marlon Byrd type moves that you didnt include.
This is a ridiculous argument though so Ill gladly bow out. Sandy sucks. You can have it.
And we gave away the #15 draft pick for that one whopping season.
Nice list tho.
Yes. At a 97 wRC+ he missed hitting a 100 on the nose. (eye roll emoji)
We also have no idea if the 15th pick would have amounted to anything AND Desmond Linsday had a first-round grade in some circles that year AND we went to the WS that year and believe it or not... Cuddyer did contribute some to that team.
I agree though... Cuddyer didnt work out that great. Now compare that up against the Oliver Perez, Castillo, Bay, ect atrocities we dealt with from Sandy's predecessor.
The main point stands - in 8 offseasons Sandy has not made very many acquisitions, which is a problem for a team that hasn't drafted well enough to fill the holes on the roster with all homegrown players. Money is a factor but not the only one.
And now this is probably the point where you point out our record last year and I talk about the complete wipeout in injuries and on and on we go...
2016
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I don't know how you can view Aldersons tenure as anything but a disaster.
That's what I get for being optimistic.
and I stand by this post again for this year:
pjcas18 : 3/31/2017 1:32 pm : link
have been an almost anything that can go wrong did go wrong from an injury standpoint from Wheeler to Harvey to deGrom to Wright and Duda and Walker and TDA, etc. and they went to the WS in 2015 and made the wild card in 2016.
Last year's playoff rotation would have been Thor, Colon, Gsellman and Lugo - and with Thor pitching the WC game he probably (or possibly) would have gotten 1 start in the NLDS. No Duda, no Walker, no Wright, and just a bad year for TDA and nothing from big deadline acquisition Bruce.
I have to believe this year the odds balance out and the Mets only get their fair share of injuries and thrive like they're capable of doing.
The Mets will go as far as their pitching takes them.
The organization had a lot more visibility in Cespedes offseason bulk up last year than fans did and possibly even how playing out of position in CF was harder on his legs when he hurt his hammy in 2016. How Harvey started last season with the big club off surgery with 1 of his shoulders supposedly dramatically weaker than the other is hard to fathom. Dan even posted that preseason Thor was projected as one of the most likely players in baseball to get injured. Wheeler's elbow is another situation where the organization has consistently been unable to figure out what to do, which makes it look insane that they traded Fulmer over Wheeler at the 2015 deadline. Familia being an injury risk wasn't rocket science since he's had to pitch more innings than anyone in baseball due to the thin BP, and that's one obvious area that I'd say the majority of fans called out as a weakness consistently the last 3 seasons.
So yes, injuries are definitely the #1 factor in this roster's success. As PJ said they will go as far as the rotation takes them. But that's not an excuse to do nothing else to strengthen the roster. In fact, having weaker depth and a weaker overall roster puts more strain on the injury prone players because instead of getting better on the DL Cespedes tries to gut through it for months at a time, etc.
Dan even posted that preseason Thor was projected as one of the most likely players in baseball to get injured.
I don't remember the post but it makes sense. Did it have any reasoning behind it other than he throws hard and it's bound to happen?
One Mets beat writer pointed out Champ Stuart (with Conforto on the DL (until May?)) would be 4th OFer. I think Stuart would add a much needed element to the Mets with his speed and defense, but his bat is not major league even as 4th OFer.
So basically the OF right now is:
Cespedes Nimmo/Lagares Conforto (DL)
However given the historically slow (at least in my memory) hot stove season I'll be patient b/c I'm fairly certain the roster today is very different than what the roster will be on March 31.
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Dan even posted that preseason Thor was projected as one of the most likely players in baseball to get injured.
I don't remember the post but it makes sense. Did it have any reasoning behind it other than he throws hard and it's bound to happen?
Yes, multiple experts (including Tom House) flat out said Syndergaard would likely get hurt this season in-part because of the idiotic training that included a lot of gym work but no throwing. Even Syndergaard (at the time) didn't really dispute this
"I get what [House] is saying. He might be right if I was bunched up and tight. But my arm is loose, my flexibility is good. I'm not worried.""
Verducci also spoke to someone off the record he named Syndergaard as one of his most likely to get injured and Chris O'Leary (a controversial figure in pitching mechanics) nailed both Harvey and Syndergaard.
Heyman also said that he does not expect the Mets to sign third baseman Mike Moustakas.
I don't remember the post but it makes sense. Did it have any reasoning behind it other than he throws hard and it's bound to happen?
Tom House said publicly that Thor had gotten too big, that his workout routine did not include enough throwing, and that he would be injured by June.
Looking at Thor this offseason, he looks much leaner, hoping for big things from him.
I still want Cain. But we won't sign him unless his market "bottoms out," so...
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According to MLB insiders, free-agent 3B Todd Frazier would prefer to sign with the Mets or Yankees.
I would take him as the only vet signing thjs offseason. Frazier is a clubhouse leader
whoa. Good for him.
I still want Cain. But we won't sign him unless his market "bottoms out," so...
Same. Cain, Kipinis, Reed would actually make this a solid offseason. That's 2 everyday players who could be as good as anyone at their positions in the NL over the next 2-3 years (which is the window). Both are positive impact on offense at the top of the order and in the field (even if Cain has some regression from his GG days). All 3 of those moves are so obviously hanging out there to be made, except for the fact that in Mets world spending any money = "unrealistic expectations to act like the yankees".
Kipinis
Cain
Conforto
Cespedes
Cabrera
TDA
Smith
Rosario
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Hard pass on McCutchen.
I still want Cain. But we won't sign him unless his market "bottoms out," so...
Same. Cain, Kipinis, Reed would actually make this a solid offseason. That's 2 everyday players who could be as good as anyone at their positions in the NL over the next 2-3 years (which is the window). Both are positive impact on offense at the top of the order and in the field (even if Cain has some regression from his GG days). All 3 of those moves are so obviously hanging out there to be made, except for the fact that in Mets world spending any money = "unrealistic expectations to act like the yankees".
Kipinis
Cain
Conforto
Cespedes
Cabrera
TDA
Smith
Rosario
Agreed. I wouldn't be brimming with confidence about the team but at least there'd be some reason for hope of a decent year with some injury luck.
Any 7 game series with JDG and Thor pitching the majority of those games is a series they can win.
Familia
Reed
Swarzak
Ramos
Blevins
+
that's a team I'd head into battle with and at least feel like has a shot to compete.
but again, the health of the starting rotation will determine how far they go IMO.
Has anyone read about the new off-season regimen the pitchers are using with Callaway and Eiland?
I saw the headline and didn't click on it, but at least they're changing things up.
I was dismayed to see Rosario at Barwis. I guess that means he's going to regress or be injured.
agree, rather run Flores out there, unless he's part of a Yelich trade.
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Mets have spoken in recent days with Jay Bruce's agent. Bruce still very much a possibility.
I completely agree. My post was entirely to point out how ridiculous it is that they're a NY franchise and they can't even do something simple along the lines of what I posted. Contrary to what the excuse makers say, improving this roster isn't impossible - finding competent ownership/management is.
Of course they won't. No one here thinks they will. Point was they should.
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Mets have spoken in recent days with Jay Bruce's agent. Bruce still very much a possibility.
So much for getting better on defense.
Even with last year's good season, Bruce has averaged 0.75 WAR per season over the past 4 years and 2200 ABs. He also had a wRC of only 104 (which is particularly sad for such a horrific defensive player) in the second half last year.
HARD HARD PASS
Just frustrating that those moves really wouldn't require a huge financial commitment and it'll still be too rich for the Mets' tastes.
But hey, we might get Jay Bruce back! WOO!
If you're signing Bruce to a multi-year deal (even something like 2yr/$27M would be gross) and hoping that he replicates his first half last year, I think it's a horrendous waste of our incredibly limited financial resources.
From what I know he's never been a manager before. Even in the minors I believe.
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...One thing about Callaway is that he's not been afraid to bench underperforming vets (something Collins was terrible at) so I'd have more confidence in our manager to use him right. ...
From what I know he's never been a manager before. Even in the minors I believe.
Whoops, you're 100% right. I was thinking of some situations in Cleveland where they were more proactive with the playing time but Callaway was only pitching coach there, not the manager. Apologies.
Hopefully Callaway ends up being as proactive as I imagined him to be.