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NFT: Moustakas in play for Mets

CMicks3110 : 1/4/2018 10:24 pm
Quote:
Fans have every right to be cynical about this, and I have no doubt they will be, but sources with knowledge of the Mets' plans are telling me the front office will do more to improve the team this winter than is being portrayed publicly.

Nevertheless, one name I heard mentioned on Thursday was Mike Moustakas, the third baseman who hit 38 home runs for the Royals last season, and so far seems to have generated limited interest at best.

Nobody was saying the Mets are ready to swoop in and sign him, but it seems fair to say the team is monitoring his situation, well aware there aren't many potential landing spots for third baseman looking for long-term deals.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/mike-moustakas-play-mets-article-1.3738534 - ( New Window )
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I never said  
ZGiants98 : 1/8/2018 12:32 am : link
I wouldn't overspend on players. I only ever said it's not Sandy's style so this shouldn't be a surprise that he's waiting in prices to come down and honestly most of the players people have screamed about wanting here (Lucroy, Tulo, and countless others over the years) ended up being garbage. Sandy hasn't guessed wrong on much. As for the roster... Nobody was complaining heading into the last three seasons.

There are plenty of good players on the board still. If prices come down and Sandy ends up getting a Bruce or a Cain and a Moustakas or a Frazier I think he will not only have done a good job but once again outsmarted the market.

The 10 million figure is BS IMO. Some beat's opinion everyone ran with...

We have to stay healthy though on top of bringing in a couple of guys. I will keep saying it until the I'm blue in the face. You simply cant not lose all your best players to injury and compete in this sport.

That aside, think about how many teams could survive losing a bonafide ace ala Harvey. That's a franchise crippling loss for most teams and he's pretty much a nonfactor now. We were still built to win in spite of losing a player of that caliber.

Cant really fault Sandy for some of the cards he was dealt over the last couple of years.
RE: RE: RE: They resigned Cespedes in November last year  
ZGiants98 : 1/8/2018 12:43 am : link
In comment 13776720 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13776240 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13774713 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and outside of twice resigning Cespedes I don't think Sandy's previous offseasons have ever been models of success.



His last two offseasons weren't models of success? Going to the WS, postseason, and into a year that every person on earth predicted 90-ish wins screamed failure to you? interesting.



The WS year they were under .500 at the deadline despite having the best pitching in baseball because they didn't do what they needed to in the offseason. Forget Cespedes, Uribe, KJ and Clippard were enormously important acquisitions for roles that were mindlessly ignored in the offseason after lighting money on fire to signing Cuddyer and "the best pinch hitter in baseball" John Mayberry.

The WC year they were around .500 at the deadline, and actually under .500 in early August. Then they went on a run in large part thanks to Lugo and Gsellman.

Last year he stood pat with almost the exact same roster as the Wild Card year to obviously terrible results.

So resigning Cespedes aside, since that was just a function of market prices, which one of those offseasons was Sandy's best in your mind? The WS year he signed Cuddyer for $25M and gave up a first round pick day 1? The year he let Murphy go for almost nothing? Or last year when he mindlessly blew his entire budget signing Walker for $17M?


First of all. A roster isn't decided by free agency. The 2015-2017 rosters were built on a rebuild that happened 3-4 years prior. The team didnt need big piece free agents until they did. Granderson, Colon, ect were nice vets added to supplement all the young talent breaking in. When we needed that final piece we went for it ala Cespedes, Clippard, ect.. Second of all... the Mets didnt have the best pitching in baseball in 2015... they did in 2016.... and both of those seasons we dealt with a shit ton of injuries as well.... We simply weathered the storms... Nothing can compare to what happened to 2017 though... a complete blackout.
Lets also remember thats Sandys refusal  
bhill410 : 1/8/2018 2:30 am : link
To address the lineup and spend money over the winter of 2015 put us ina position where we had to make several trades for offensive players. That offense was historically bad in June of 2015. My issue with sandy, outside of Murphy and trying to trade for Gomez over cespedes, is that he is more than willing to go into seasons with glaring holes if he A or B plan fails or is more expensive than they realize. He has done it multiple times at multiple positions and each time it has exposed the team. A good gm just doesnt operate like that.
Is it really not Sandy's style to  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2018 8:20 am : link
"overspend" on players? or is it maybe a function of his budget allowed by ownership?

In Oakland he consistently had among the highest payrolls in the league - especially relative to their market.

It was only once the team was sold and he was instructed to slash payroll he became a moneyball disciple.

Now those A's teams weren't built solely in FA's, he had back to back to back rookies of the year, with Canseco, McGwire and Weiss, so there was good scouting he seems to have lost along the way but they all got paid with the A's.

and he did bring in free agents and traded for players like Dave Stewart, Eck, Henderson, etc.

San Diego also a small market team with traditionally low payrolls while Sandy was there, I think it was by order not by choice.

I just don't believe if he had a blank check Sandy Alderson would say no F it, I don't need that money to spend on free agents to augment/build our team I think we're ok dumpster diving.

I also don't think the money ball approach can win the WS or build a consistent winner in this era. Everyone though the Royals would defy logic, but now they're back to mediocrity after two good years (kind of like the Mets except the Royals sealed the deal).

Most of the playoff teams in MLB are among the highest payrolls.

Every now and then you have a team pop up like the Astros or Rays, but the Astros (like the Rays before them) had the #1 pick in baseball three years in a row and the #2 pick the next year and some shrewd IFA signings.

but those teams success are only sustainable until players have to get paid, unless they decide to pay them (see the Rays)
Eventually the GM needs to turn  
Metnut : 1/8/2018 9:44 am : link
the team into a consistent contender or else you need to find a new GM. After a large enough sample size, I'm not willing to accept excuses made for a GM's failures.

Sandy has been GM of the Mets since 2010. They've made the division series once during that span. IMO, that's just not good enough after being GM for so long. They need to get back there in 2018 IMO.
RE: I never said  
Section331 : 1/8/2018 9:48 am : link
In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:

The 10 million figure is BS IMO. Some beat's opinion everyone ran with...


Come on, it wasn't Sherman's "opinion", he clearly said the figure came from his contacts within the organization. Not you can quibble with the veracity of that figure, but to cal it an opinion is pure homerism.
I've always found Sherman  
Metnut : 1/8/2018 10:10 am : link
to be a reliable reporter and once that isn't afraid to take the Wilpons to task.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2018 10:12 am : link
We'll see if the figure was BS or not.

Based on them still needing markets to "bottom out" to sign anyone, I'm guessing it's more accurate than you think, Z.
Did you ghost write baseball maverick?  
Eric on Li : 1/8/2018 10:15 am : link
In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Nobody was complaining heading into the last three seasons.


That is not accurate at all. Going into 2015 a lot of people complained about the Cuddyer signing and most were dumbfounded they were penciling Flores in at SS without a backup plan. Writers were openly mocking them. The offense was predictably pathetic up until the moment they made acquisitions. When Uribe got traded in June and the Mets were rolling out Soup and Mayberry plenty of people said it was insane that they never add players. Then they got Uribe/KJ 2 months later and he made a big impact.

Going into 2016 I grant you that we were all thrilled to just get Cespedes back, but going into last year many were worried about the BP and disappointed they opted to bring back injury prone vets who didn't work out in 2016 - chiefly Walker. There was definitely cautious optimism but the BP falling apart was a concern.

In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:

Cant really fault Sandy for some of the cards he was dealt over the last couple of years.


Yes, we can. We can fault him for signing an over the hill and injury prone Cuddyer and throwing away a first round pick. We can fault him for ignoring the BP for years, which led to Familia pitching more than anyone else in baseball and eventually getting hurt. We can fault him for the teams training staff and handling of injured players in general. And we can fault him for only acquiring 1 veteran impact player over his entire regime - Cespedes. I guess maybe you can expand that to 2, with Granderson, though he really only had 1 great season here. Not surprisingly those are also the 2 biggest contracts he's given out.
The Cuddyer deal made no sense  
Metnut : 1/8/2018 11:23 am : link
IMO, it should be added to Sandy's record in the draft since he gave away a first round pick to make that ill-advised signing.
RE: Did you ghost write baseball maverick?  
ZGiants98 : 1/8/2018 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13777854 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Nobody was complaining heading into the last three seasons.



That is not accurate at all. Going into 2015 a lot of people complained about the Cuddyer signing and most were dumbfounded they were penciling Flores in at SS without a backup plan. Writers were openly mocking them. The offense was predictably pathetic up until the moment they made acquisitions. When Uribe got traded in June and the Mets were rolling out Soup and Mayberry plenty of people said it was insane that they never add players. Then they got Uribe/KJ 2 months later and he made a big impact.

Going into 2016 I grant you that we were all thrilled to just get Cespedes back, but going into last year many were worried about the BP and disappointed they opted to bring back injury prone vets who didn't work out in 2016 - chiefly Walker. There was definitely cautious optimism but the BP falling apart was a concern.

In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:



Cant really fault Sandy for some of the cards he was dealt over the last couple of years.



Yes, we can. We can fault him for signing an over the hill and injury prone Cuddyer and throwing away a first round pick. We can fault him for ignoring the BP for years, which led to Familia pitching more than anyone else in baseball and eventually getting hurt. We can fault him for the teams training staff and handling of injured players in general. And we can fault him for only acquiring 1 veteran impact player over his entire regime - Cespedes. I guess maybe you can expand that to 2, with Granderson, though he really only had 1 great season here. Not surprisingly those are also the 2 biggest contracts he's given out.


Well I believe everything you said wasnt accurate at all. Giving Cuddyer a 2 year deal did absolutely nothing to hurt the franchise except forfeiting the pick but considering we actually did go to the WS that year Sandy was vindicated in adding a "final piece" type which is exactly when you give up a pick. The Mets dealt with many injuries in the first half of 2015 that effected the lineup as well but most importantly, their best hitter wasn't even called up until August of that year. Nobody had a better August/September than Conforto. The whole thing was a rebuild and that was basically the beginning of everything we had hoped to accomplish. If you think Soup and Mayberry were supposed to be major components of any team, you are full of it. As for going into last year? Huh? The bullpen was the absolute best in baseball the year prior and they brought back the whole thing. There were posters in here saying there would be no way we would offer Reed arbitration because he would be too expensive yet that's exactly what we did. We picked up Bruce's option, we spent a good amount of money bringing Walker back... The Mets did plenty last year to bring in just as talented a roster as 2015/2016.
RE: .  
ZGiants98 : 1/8/2018 7:35 pm : link
In comment 13777843 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
We'll see if the figure was BS or not.

Based on them still needing markets to "bottom out" to sign anyone, I'm guessing it's more accurate than you think, Z.


We shall see indeed. I hear this crap every single year and all the payroll does is go up since the talent started hitting the majors. Are we in the upper echelon? No. But Sandy absolutely spreads smoke to give him leverage in negotiations.
RE: RE: I never said  
ZGiants98 : 1/8/2018 7:42 pm : link
In comment 13777793 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13777538 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:



The 10 million figure is BS IMO. Some beat's opinion everyone ran with...



Come on, it wasn't Sherman's "opinion", he clearly said the figure came from his contacts within the organization. Not you can quibble with the veracity of that figure, but to cal it an opinion is pure homerism.


No he didn't. He said based on conversations he had with people inside and outside the organization he DEDUCED (as in guessed) the Mets had roughly 10 million to spend. He absolutely never said he spoke to anyone directly about a payroll number.
RE: Eventually the GM needs to turn  
ZGiants98 : 1/8/2018 9:17 pm : link
In comment 13777784 Metnut said:
Quote:
the team into a consistent contender or else you need to find a new GM. After a large enough sample size, I'm not willing to accept excuses made for a GM's failures.

Sandy has been GM of the Mets since 2010. They've made the division series once during that span. IMO, that's just not good enough after being GM for so long. They need to get back there in 2018 IMO.


I think you're a great poster here but it's exactly that kind of sweeping logic that drives me insane. When Sandy got here he was in bad contract hell (Bay, Castillo, Perez, Santana, ect.), the Madoff stuff was just hitting and he was asked to slash payroll, AND rebuild the system/team from scratch. Syndergaard, Conforto, Matz, ect. didnt even get called up until MID 2015... the year we went to the WS. Not a single one of his top picks made the majors before that year. 2015-2017 IS the window on which he should be judged IMO. Criticizing him on 2011 makes no sense.

Look. Sandy was a hero after 2015/2016. Now everyone wants to drag him through the mud and ignore he lost 4 of his top 5 players to injury last year (Syndergaard, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto...not to mention Harvey the year prior). That's fine. There's really no sense in arguing it until we see how the team responds. The Mets currently have one player on their roster over 31 not named Wright. It's actually too young IMO. He needs to sprinkle in a few more vets. If he doesn't and we struggle Ill be right here criticizing him mid 2018 but I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt at least until we see A.) the complete roster after the offseason is complete and B.) How the team bounces back from all the injuries we've suffered.

All of us are just pissing in the wind until that happens. The proof will be in the pudding.
RE: RE: Eventually the GM needs to turn  
Metnut : 1/9/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 13779099 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13777784 Metnut said:


Quote:


the team into a consistent contender or else you need to find a new GM. After a large enough sample size, I'm not willing to accept excuses made for a GM's failures.

Sandy has been GM of the Mets since 2010. They've made the division series once during that span. IMO, that's just not good enough after being GM for so long. They need to get back there in 2018 IMO.



I think you're a great poster here but it's exactly that kind of sweeping logic that drives me insane. When Sandy got here he was in bad contract hell (Bay, Castillo, Perez, Santana, ect.), the Madoff stuff was just hitting and he was asked to slash payroll, AND rebuild the system/team from scratch. Syndergaard, Conforto, Matz, ect. didnt even get called up until MID 2015... the year we went to the WS. Not a single one of his top picks made the majors before that year. 2015-2017 IS the window on which he should be judged IMO. Criticizing him on 2011 makes no sense.

Look. Sandy was a hero after 2015/2016. Now everyone wants to drag him through the mud and ignore he lost 4 of his top 5 players to injury last year (Syndergaard, Familia, Cespedes, and Conforto...not to mention Harvey the year prior). That's fine. There's really no sense in arguing it until we see how the team responds. The Mets currently have one player on their roster over 31 not named Wright. It's actually too young IMO. He needs to sprinkle in a few more vets. If he doesn't and we struggle Ill be right here criticizing him mid 2018 but I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt at least until we see A.) the complete roster after the offseason is complete and B.) How the team bounces back from all the injuries we've suffered.

All of us are just pissing in the wind until that happens. The proof will be in the pudding.


Fair enough points Z, and yea, there's certainly a possibility of a major on-field rebound next year with some health and some luck.

I'm just frustrated with the state of the whole organization right now. The injuries were brutal last year and its hard to blame the GM for that, but I think it's fair to criticize him for the weak farm system and lack of depth in the bullpen last year. Collins' miss-use of the pen falls on Alderson, as does the universally maligned Mets training staff, since all of these guys are Alderson hires or guys that Alderson has the option to replace.

I'm of course willing to cut him some slack if the team and farm system rebounds in 2018, but I think you also have to understand why a lot of Met fans aren't happy right now.

Hopefully they can improve the team a bit before the offseason is over.
Payroll has gone up  
bhill410 : 1/9/2018 12:09 pm : link
But its still an embarrassment
Mets  
DanMetroMan : 1/9/2018 12:11 pm : link
40 man roster payroll rankings the last 5 seasons

15th (which actually isn't accurate as it doesn't include -15 for David Wright).
15th
19th
21st
Sorry  
DanMetroMan : 1/9/2018 12:11 pm : link
5 seasons ago

17th
RE: Mets  
Metnut : 1/9/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13780071 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
40 man roster payroll rankings the last 5 seasons

15th (which actually isn't accurate as it doesn't include -15 for David Wright).
15th
19th
21st


Ideally, we'd all like to see them in the top 5 range for most years, and with a new owner, I think that's possible.

Even having said that, if the Mets were in the 6-10 range most years (with things fluctuating year to year), I think most of us would be fine with that. Being outside the top 10, even outside the top 15, when the Mets are charging NYC prices for parking and concessions just isn't fair to the fans. It creates a self-reinforcing cycle where the fans won't come out to games, and then the Mets have to try and giveaway tickets at the last minute through some sort of deal and you have Islander style 10K people actually at the game on weeknights.
That's  
DanMetroMan : 1/9/2018 12:32 pm : link
the fallacy of the payroll argument

1) That Mets fans expect to be the Dodgers or Yankees
2) People have yet to adjust their minds to inflation. Teams 13-15-16 in 25 man payrolls were 154, 151, 140. Spending 140-150 million is no longer a "big" payroll. It's firmly average.

3) Even taking THAT into account the #10 payroll in baseball opening day was 164 million, the Mets minus David Wright came in at 141 million. For 23 million dollars (and that's not even being "greedy" and expecting to be top 5 etc, imagine the talent you could have. The #8 payroll (again not being greedy and expecting to be the Dodgers) opening day payroll was 32 million more than the Mets.

4) Steve Phillips flat out acknowledged that unlike most teams, the Mets payroll is directly tied to attendance which means if the Mets have a really bad season, this is compounded because it means spending is coming down. The problem is made worse.

5) The draft/development has been disastrous and unlike bringing in a new medical staff to my knowledge NOTHING has changed in the off-season. Why should anyone be optimistic?

6) For whatever the season the FO does not believe in making use of the Rule 5, waivers or even smaller trades. People like to focus on the Yankee payroll, what does their payroll have to do with guys like Chad Green, Didi, Aaron Hicks? Where are the Nate Karns for Dyson gambles?

RE: That's  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13780094 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the fallacy of the payroll argument

1) That Mets fans expect to be the Dodgers or Yankees
2) People have yet to adjust their minds to inflation. Teams 13-15-16 in 25 man payrolls were 154, 151, 140. Spending 140-150 million is no longer a "big" payroll. It's firmly average.

3) Even taking THAT into account the #10 payroll in baseball opening day was 164 million, the Mets minus David Wright came in at 141 million. For 23 million dollars (and that's not even being "greedy" and expecting to be top 5 etc, imagine the talent you could have. The #8 payroll (again not being greedy and expecting to be the Dodgers) opening day payroll was 32 million more than the Mets.

4) Steve Phillips flat out acknowledged that unlike most teams, the Mets payroll is directly tied to attendance which means if the Mets have a really bad season, this is compounded because it means spending is coming down. The problem is made worse.

5) The draft/development has been disastrous and unlike bringing in a new medical staff to my knowledge NOTHING has changed in the off-season. Why should anyone be optimistic?

6) For whatever the season the FO does not believe in making use of the Rule 5, waivers or even smaller trades. People like to focus on the Yankee payroll, what does their payroll have to do with guys like Chad Green, Didi, Aaron Hicks? Where are the Nate Karns for Dyson gambles?


this x1m. The org is a joke and while Sandy is not a joke, he's a decent GM, he hasn't done a very good job. His regime deserves credit for acquiring Thor, developing JDG, developing Familia, drafting Conforto, but there have been far too many misses along the way and even 8 offseasons later there's no coherent strategy. Acquire flawed and cheap stop gaps, pray for the health of the pitchers, rinse and repeat.
If this isn't the kiss of death for a Mets fan I don't know what is  
pjcas18 : 1/9/2018 2:46 pm : link
Quote:

Metsmerized Online
‏ @MetsMerized
2h2 hours ago

New Post: Syndergaard Says Hes Never Felt Better http://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=252495 #Mets #LGM
Sure  
pjcas18 : 1/9/2018 3:47 pm : link
Quote:
Newsday Sports‏Verified account @NewsdaySports

#Mets still interested in signing Jay Bruce and Addison Reed, source says | @newsdaymarcus https://nwsdy.li/2DehD8r


RE: RE: That's  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13780196 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13780094 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the fallacy of the payroll argument

1) That Mets fans expect to be the Dodgers or Yankees
2) People have yet to adjust their minds to inflation. Teams 13-15-16 in 25 man payrolls were 154, 151, 140. Spending 140-150 million is no longer a "big" payroll. It's firmly average.

3) Even taking THAT into account the #10 payroll in baseball opening day was 164 million, the Mets minus David Wright came in at 141 million. For 23 million dollars (and that's not even being "greedy" and expecting to be top 5 etc, imagine the talent you could have. The #8 payroll (again not being greedy and expecting to be the Dodgers) opening day payroll was 32 million more than the Mets.

4) Steve Phillips flat out acknowledged that unlike most teams, the Mets payroll is directly tied to attendance which means if the Mets have a really bad season, this is compounded because it means spending is coming down. The problem is made worse.

5) The draft/development has been disastrous and unlike bringing in a new medical staff to my knowledge NOTHING has changed in the off-season. Why should anyone be optimistic?

6) For whatever the season the FO does not believe in making use of the Rule 5, waivers or even smaller trades. People like to focus on the Yankee payroll, what does their payroll have to do with guys like Chad Green, Didi, Aaron Hicks? Where are the Nate Karns for Dyson gambles?




this x1m. The org is a joke and while Sandy is not a joke, he's a decent GM, he hasn't done a very good job. His regime deserves credit for acquiring Thor, developing JDG, developing Familia, drafting Conforto, but there have been far too many misses along the way and even 8 offseasons later there's no coherent strategy. Acquire flawed and cheap stop gaps, pray for the health of the pitchers, rinse and repeat.


7 offseasons.
Actually it has been 8  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 8:39 pm : link
my bad. Time flies.
I actually dont even think  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 8:41 pm : link
McCutchen and Harrison would be even as good as say... Walker and Bruce... but at this point i would certainly welcome it. It would improve the roster. Conforto would have to play CF though. Dont want to see Cutch there anymore.
RE: Sure  
arcarsenal : 1/9/2018 8:48 pm : link
In comment 13780544 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Newsday Sports‏Verified account @NewsdaySports

#Mets still interested in signing Jay Bruce and Addison Reed, source says | @newsdaymarcus https://nwsdy.li/2DehD8r




It's not even that they're bad players - it just screams "lack of creativity" - it's like all we know are these same guys we keep rostering.

It would be nice to see the Mets make an acquisition that's a little off the radar or outside the box, but I'm not holding my breath.

Instead, we'll re-acquire the same players we weren't good enough to win with the first time they were here.
If the plan involves playing  
Metnut : 1/9/2018 8:52 pm : link
Conforto or Cespedes in center field full time, then it sounds like a shitty one to me.
RE: If the plan involves playing  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2018 10:00 pm : link
In comment 13780858 Metnut said:
Quote:
Conforto or Cespedes in center field full time, then it sounds like a shitty one to me.


Agreed.
RE: Actually it has been 8  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2018 10:10 pm : link
In comment 13780843 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
my bad. Time flies.


In 8 offseasons here's a list of Sandy's good moves:
1. Dickey trade (saved $)
2. Granderson ($60M)
3. Colon ($20M)
4. Cabrera ($24M)
5. Resigning Cespedes ($135M)
<end of list>

I mean, maybe you could expand it to add Walker but he was basically hurt for most of 2 years and way overpaid the 2nd year. There are teams in recent years who have made more big moves and spent more in 1 offseason than Sandy has made in his entire tenure - Cubs, Yankees, Nats, etc. The lack of talent acquisitions in the offseason is one of the main reasons this franchise doesn't consistently compete with those teams during the season.
RE: If the plan involves playing  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 11:00 pm : link
In comment 13780858 Metnut said:
Quote:
Conforto or Cespedes in center field full time, then it sounds like a shitty one to me.


I dont get this logic. Cespedes? Sure. He's awful in CF. Conforto was pretty close to average there though. He's a much better CF than Nimmo was and everyone seems fine with a Lagares/Nimmo platoon. I dont get that one.
RE: RE: Actually it has been 8  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 11:01 pm : link
In comment 13780925 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13780843 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


my bad. Time flies.



In 8 offseasons here's a list of Sandy's good moves:
1. Dickey trade (saved $)
2. Granderson ($60M)
3. Colon ($20M)
4. Cabrera ($24M)
5. Resigning Cespedes ($135M)
<end of list>

I mean, maybe you could expand it to add Walker but he was basically hurt for most of 2 years and way overpaid the 2nd year. There are teams in recent years who have made more big moves and spent more in 1 offseason than Sandy has made in his entire tenure - Cubs, Yankees, Nats, etc. The lack of talent acquisitions in the offseason is one of the main reasons this franchise doesn't consistently compete with those teams during the season.


LOL.
RE: RE: RE: Actually it has been 8  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2018 11:10 pm : link
In comment 13780944 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13780925 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 13780843 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


my bad. Time flies.



In 8 offseasons here's a list of Sandy's good moves:
1. Dickey trade (saved $)
2. Granderson ($60M)
3. Colon ($20M)
4. Cabrera ($24M)
5. Resigning Cespedes ($135M)
<end of list>

I mean, maybe you could expand it to add Walker but he was basically hurt for most of 2 years and way overpaid the 2nd year. There are teams in recent years who have made more big moves and spent more in 1 offseason than Sandy has made in his entire tenure - Cubs, Yankees, Nats, etc. The lack of talent acquisitions in the offseason is one of the main reasons this franchise doesn't consistently compete with those teams during the season.



LOL.


Which part of my post isn't true? Omitting John Mayberry? AdA?
I could probably throw out 10-15 "moves"  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 11:15 pm : link
from last year alone.

1.) QO Walker (Walker had a good season)
2.) Picking up Bruce's option (Bruce had a good season)
3.) Offering arbitration to Reed (Reed had a good year)
4.) Signing Cespedes to a 4 year deal.
5.) Signing Blevins to a two year deal.
6.) Drafting Peterson (viewed favorably)
7.) Drafted Vientos (viewed favorably)
8.) Successfully traded Granderson in a suppressed market
9.) Successfully traded Walker in a suppressed market
10.) Successfully traded Duda in a suppressed market
11.) Successfully traded Reed in a suppressed market
12.) Successfully traded Bruce in a suppressed market

ect. ect.

Sandy's worst move ever is probably Cuddyer... A guy that hit league average and he had to pay for a whopping one season.
most of those are not offseason moves, none are aquisitions  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2018 11:43 pm : link
every GM offers players arbitration and makes draft picks. Most teams tinker with their rosters at the trade deadline as either buyers or sellers. The offseason is when non-Mets organizations spend money to improve their rosters by adding talent via FA or making trades. I think you are smart enough to understand the concept of "the offseason" but maybe not.
Below average, not league average.  
PhiPsi125 : 1/9/2018 11:47 pm : link
And we wasted money that the team clearly doesnt have.

And we gave away the #15 draft pick for that one whopping season.

Nice list tho.

RE: most of those are not offseason moves, none are aquisitions  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 11:56 pm : link
In comment 13780957 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
every GM offers players arbitration and makes draft picks. Most teams tinker with their rosters at the trade deadline as either buyers or sellers. The offseason is when non-Mets organizations spend money to improve their rosters by adding talent via FA or making trades. I think you are smart enough to understand the concept of "the offseason" but maybe not.


Kind of ridiculous then since being a GM is a 365 day a year job but even still Walker, Bruce, Reed, ect all happened in the offseason. Either way, he wasnt really in a position to be adding talent to supplement the youth until the last three years or so but even so I can still rattle off Marlon Byrd type moves that you didnt include.

This is a ridiculous argument though so Ill gladly bow out. Sandy sucks. You can have it.
RE: Below average, not league average.  
ZGiants98 : 1/9/2018 11:59 pm : link
In comment 13780961 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
And we wasted money that the team clearly doesnt have.

And we gave away the #15 draft pick for that one whopping season.

Nice list tho.


Yes. At a 97 wRC+ he missed hitting a 100 on the nose. (eye roll emoji)

We also have no idea if the 15th pick would have amounted to anything AND Desmond Linsday had a first-round grade in some circles that year AND we went to the WS that year and believe it or not... Cuddyer did contribute some to that team.

I agree though... Cuddyer didnt work out that great. Now compare that up against the Oliver Perez, Castillo, Bay, ect atrocities we dealt with from Sandy's predecessor.
Got it - it's ridiculous for GM's to improve their team's in offseason  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2018 12:06 am : link
Marlon Byrd was a good move, you are right I forgot that one. It was a minor league contract that obviously paid off way beyond expectations and it was an undeniably great pickup.

The main point stands - in 8 offseasons Sandy has not made very many acquisitions, which is a problem for a team that hasn't drafted well enough to fill the holes on the roster with all homegrown players. Money is a factor but not the only one.
Again...  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2018 12:09 am : link
At the time Syndergaard, Matz, Conforto, ect were hitting the majors it was already 2015. I havent been dissatisfied with many of his rosters heading into either of the last years. I dont really know what holes you speak of. We have some holes now IMO but I dont think we are done either...

And now this is probably the point where you point out our record last year and I talk about the complete wipeout in injuries and on and on we go...

(last three years)  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2018 12:09 am : link
.
And no it's not ridiculous to go after acquisitions  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2018 12:13 am : link
in the offseason but if you are acquiring guys at the deadline with an eye to the next year (Ramos being a perfect example) what the hell is the difference?
Pretty hilarious reading the comments  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2018 12:24 am : link
heading into 2016 and 2017 the last two offseasons (myself included).

2016
Link - ( New Window )
2017  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2018 12:25 am : link
....
Link - ( New Window )
The value or lack thereof, he got in return  
Modus Operandi : 1/10/2018 6:19 am : link
For trading Reed, Duda, et al is more telling.

I don't know how you can view Aldersons tenure as anything but a disaster.
RE: 2017  
NewFakeDannyHeep : 1/10/2018 8:19 am : link
In comment 13780976 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
.... Link - ( New Window )


That's what I get for being optimistic.
Of course I was overly optimistic for 2017  
pjcas18 : 1/10/2018 8:53 am : link
how can you not be the way the team has been decimated by injuries the past few years. Doesn't make sense.

and I stand by this post again for this year:

Quote:
The past couple years
pjcas18 : 3/31/2017 1:32 pm : link
have been an almost anything that can go wrong did go wrong from an injury standpoint from Wheeler to Harvey to deGrom to Wright and Duda and Walker and TDA, etc. and they went to the WS in 2015 and made the wild card in 2016.

Last year's playoff rotation would have been Thor, Colon, Gsellman and Lugo - and with Thor pitching the WC game he probably (or possibly) would have gotten 1 start in the NLDS. No Duda, no Walker, no Wright, and just a bad year for TDA and nothing from big deadline acquisition Bruce.

I have to believe this year the odds balance out and the Mets only get their fair share of injuries and thrive like they're capable of doing.


The Mets will go as far as their pitching takes them.
fan predictions would've been better if we knew the injury risks  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2018 9:37 am : link
Injuries are always a large portion luck, but the organization had a lot of information that only came out to fans later that would have given people a lot more reason for concern with their predictions heading into the season. For example:

The organization had a lot more visibility in Cespedes offseason bulk up last year than fans did and possibly even how playing out of position in CF was harder on his legs when he hurt his hammy in 2016. How Harvey started last season with the big club off surgery with 1 of his shoulders supposedly dramatically weaker than the other is hard to fathom. Dan even posted that preseason Thor was projected as one of the most likely players in baseball to get injured. Wheeler's elbow is another situation where the organization has consistently been unable to figure out what to do, which makes it look insane that they traded Fulmer over Wheeler at the 2015 deadline. Familia being an injury risk wasn't rocket science since he's had to pitch more innings than anyone in baseball due to the thin BP, and that's one obvious area that I'd say the majority of fans called out as a weakness consistently the last 3 seasons.

So yes, injuries are definitely the #1 factor in this roster's success. As PJ said they will go as far as the rotation takes them. But that's not an excuse to do nothing else to strengthen the roster. In fact, having weaker depth and a weaker overall roster puts more strain on the injury prone players because instead of getting better on the DL Cespedes tries to gut through it for months at a time, etc.
RE: fan predictions would've been better if we knew the injury risks  
JayBinQueens : 1/10/2018 9:51 am : link
In comment 13781192 Eric on Li said:
Quote:

Dan even posted that preseason Thor was projected as one of the most likely players in baseball to get injured.


I don't remember the post but it makes sense. Did it have any reasoning behind it other than he throws hard and it's bound to happen?
I think the Mets should add Reed  
pjcas18 : 1/10/2018 9:55 am : link
at a minimum - bullpen could become a strength, but they HAVE to make other moves. IMO it's not even a question of will they, they have to.

One Mets beat writer pointed out Champ Stuart (with Conforto on the DL (until May?)) would be 4th OFer. I think Stuart would add a much needed element to the Mets with his speed and defense, but his bat is not major league even as 4th OFer.

So basically the OF right now is:

Cespedes Nimmo/Lagares Conforto (DL)

However given the historically slow (at least in my memory) hot stove season I'll be patient b/c I'm fairly certain the roster today is very different than what the roster will be on March 31.
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