Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NFT: Rangers news - Kreider to have rib surgery

Mad Mike : 1/5/2018 12:46 pm
He's having a rib resected, which I guess is related to thoraic outlet syndrome. No idea how much, if at all, this lengthens how long he's already out, but he remains listed as out indefinitely.
lonk - ( New Window )
I have no idea what that surgery entails  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 12:47 pm : link
But you have to think that his season might be over?

He is to tough person to replace on the roster
Not necessarily.  
Mad Mike : 1/5/2018 12:51 pm : link
Adam McQuaid had a similar surgery in Oct 2012 and was back playing for Boston in mid-January.
The Rangers need to be sellers this year  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 12:55 pm : link
This just isn't a contender. If Gorton is smart, they could potentially be contenders next year.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/5/2018 12:56 pm : link
Is this a totally separate issue or is it directly related to the blood clot?
RE: .  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13773568 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Is this a totally separate issue or is it directly related to the blood clot?


Related. This surgery appears to be a treatment to TOS, and a symptom of TOS is blood clots.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 1/5/2018 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13773586 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13773568 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Is this a totally separate issue or is it directly related to the blood clot?



Related. This surgery appears to be a treatment to TOS, and a symptom of TOS is blood clots.


Ah ha. Thanks.

Hopefully this isn't season-ending. Kreider is kind of a necessary player in the spring.

We're right in the thick of things, so it's hard to want to sell at the deadline this year - but if we weren't going to contend this year, I kind of wish we had just been awful instead. I really want to draft Dahlin :/
RE: The Rangers need to be sellers this year  
Giants in 07 : 1/5/2018 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13773561 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
This just isn't a contender. If Gorton is smart, they could potentially be contenders next year.


We're 5 points out of first place..
Rangers have very little chance at Dahlin  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 1:13 pm : link
he's going #1 overall. But Zadin is surely pushing him.

Hopefully it works out better for Kreider than Matt Harvey. Hockey players have a much better track record for success post TOS surgery for some reason than baseball players.

Stamkos and Vasilevsky from TB both had successful returns (though lengthy absences (for Stamkos at least)).


.  
arcarsenal : 1/5/2018 1:14 pm : link
I know - that's why I said if we weren't going to contend, I'd have preferred we were awful, since that's the only shot we'd have at Dahlin.

Obviously we won't now.
Tough to see  
gmen9892 : 1/5/2018 1:15 pm : link
Which way Gorton is going to play this at the deadline right now. The Rangers havent played particularly well lately and if they continue to fall down the standings, it would be prudent to be sellers. Either way, I do not think they should be buyers. Ride the rest of the year out with the current crop of players.
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13773620 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I know - that's why I said if we weren't going to contend, I'd have preferred we were awful, since that's the only shot we'd have at Dahlin.

Obviously we won't now.


Zadina, not Zadin.

I heard someone on the Rangers post-game PC after the Winter Classic (maybe Miller), say the Rangers were starting to get ready for the playoffs.

While I agree they're practically a lock to make the playoffs, a lot can happen in the whole second half of a season.

RE: The Rangers need to be sellers this year  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2018 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13773561 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
This just isn't a contender. If Gorton is smart, they could potentially be contenders next year.


As long as pj doesn't pick them as a contender, I don't see why they aren't in the discussion. Other than TB, who scares you?
RE: RE: The Rangers need to be sellers this year  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13773596 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
We're 5 points out of first place..


Do you think their record is indicative of their level of play? How many games have they won in the last month where the consensus comments here were "Well, they were outplayed at both ends of the ice but somehow pulled that one out"?

They've been playing worse than their record and the schedule down the stretch is a bitch with all the road games. We have no idea when Kreider will be back or how effective he'll be at that time. Vigneault is still coaching the team, which is a major handicap.

I just don't see it, regardless of what the standings are today.
Not just a contender, but the way Hank  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 1:34 pm : link
is playing among the favorites.

Penguins turned into a pumpkin trying to balance too many stars - haven't won back to back games since November or early December, and the Capitals are the Capitals. BJ's don't scare me unless Bobrovsky is playing lights out.

The Bruins are a sleeper, they're on fire right now and have righted the ship defensively with McAvoy being the real deal and not losing Carlo.

so much mediocrity though no one can roll 4 lines like the Rangers can, again their Achilles heel is defense, I think Shattenkirk and Smith are poor (shattenkirk mostly in the defensive zone, Smith overall), bu Skjei and McDonagh when playing well are top 4 on any team.

If they can make a trade for a D they'll solidify themselves as top 3 or 4 in the mix for favorite. After TB.

TB has few weaknesses and of course the Canadiens play their best game of the year last night against them in a game I was counting as a loss.

I think Montreal would move Jordie Benn, Max Pacioretty (could fill in admirably for Kreider - in fact be an upgrade), Tomas Plekanec (turned from finesse guy into a solid veteran 3rd line center), even Karl Azner (who is basically the worst signing Bergevin has made, but has some value in the right system) for draft picks/young guys.

I expect a busy trade deadline this year with 2020 looming teams being more willing to be aggressive.

The way teams in the East are playing right now I'd have TB, BOS, TOR, WAS, NJD and NYR as the 6 "locks" for the playoffs.

The defense is on AV.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2018 1:37 pm : link
They have the players for them to be good.
They'd have a better shot  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 1:38 pm : link
if they deployed their personnel properly. At least Buchnevich sounds like he's back with Zibanejad for tomorrow night's game with Miller on their wing, a suitable Kreider replacement. No idea what took so long.

I agree that their play for about a month now has been pretty shitty. Goaltending has carried them. But there's still a month and a half before the deadline for things to be evaluated.
Maybe my opinion is too heavily colored by the past few games  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 1:38 pm : link
But they looked absolutely putrid against Chicago.
RE: The defense is on AV.  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13773673 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
They have the players for them to be good.


Not Smith or Shattenkirk.

I know it won't be popular, but the last two Rangers games I saw I didn't think Holden was awful. He was even a little physical. I can see Smith being a healthy scratch for Holden though Holden is more a 5/6 guy than top 4. Still has infuruating lapses, but fundamentally seems to have the tools to be good. I can see why Roy liked him.

they just need one more D IMO.

Letang?
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2018 1:43 pm : link
Smith has been bad. I think Shattenkirk is much better than you're giving him credit for, especially if given a strong partner.

I agree with you on Holden. He's JAG, but not awful.
Shattenkirk is a poor defenseman?  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 1:44 pm : link
Even if you want to say he's poor in his own zone his capabilities with the puck overcome a lot of that. Rangers are getting shelled nightly, they need more of defenseman that can control the puck and drive possession as opposed to the safe and dependable" types that AV loves.

Holden is fine if he's on the 3rd pair. He's played on the first pair, it's a problem. Will Ryan Mcdonagh go his entire career here without ever having a suitable D partner? I've given up hope of them reuniting him with Shattenkirk. They gove all of a game and a half together before they were broken up. It's silly, as we continue to give up close to 40 shots a night, very little changes.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2018 1:46 pm : link
Quote:
Will Ryan Mcdonagh go his entire career here without ever having a suitable D partner?


Holden's ok on the third pair  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 1:46 pm : link
The problem is that they're toting 3 bad defensemen on the ice every night. Any of Holden, Smith, or Staal would be bearable on the third pair, but they're all playing every night.

And Shatty is great at what he does, but he's undeniably weak in his own end. Paired with a strong partner, it wouldn't be a problem at all.
To my eye  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 1:53 pm : link
Staal is having a better season, though the numbers don't really bear that out. I think he's been used properly.

Don't think McDonagh ever got extended time with Stralman. What could have been though, damn. I think him and Shattenkirk together could be effective. Overall I'd just like to see them try some new ideas though, because while I think it's a playoff team, we've seen how this ends before in the prior two seasons.
I won't get into the Shattekirk debate  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 1:54 pm : link
I just think an offensive minded D need to be better offensively than he's been to justify the defensive deficiency and get paid like a top 4 D.



RE: To my eye  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13773721 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
Staal is having a better season, though the numbers don't really bear that out. I think he's been used properly.

Don't think McDonagh ever got extended time with Stralman. What could have been though, damn. I think him and Shattenkirk together could be effective. Overall I'd just like to see them try some new ideas though, because while I think it's a playoff team, we've seen how this ends before in the prior two seasons.


No, you're right - we missed out. :(

Agree on Staal. He's passable. Smith is the big disappointment to me so far this year.
I think they gave Smith his deal  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 2:01 pm : link
not expecting to get Shattenkirk. Now he's a bit necessary, and he hasn't played as well as he did in his short stint last season. You'd like to be able to use your 3rd pair for a young developing player or a cheap veteran. Instead I believe we're spending close to $10 million on ours.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2018 2:28 pm : link
I was a bit concerned throwing money at a guy who literally played his best hockey in the three months leading up to the deal for the team. But I was still supportive of the deal. He's had a rough year.
RE: RE: RE: The Rangers need to be sellers this year  
Giants in 07 : 1/5/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13773659 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13773596 Giants in 07 said:


Quote:


We're 5 points out of first place..



Do you think their record is indicative of their level of play? How many games have they won in the last month where the consensus comments here were "Well, they were outplayed at both ends of the ice but somehow pulled that one out"?

They've been playing worse than their record and the schedule down the stretch is a bitch with all the road games. We have no idea when Kreider will be back or how effective he'll be at that time. Vigneault is still coaching the team, which is a major handicap.

I just don't see it, regardless of what the standings are today.


The funny thing is that I agree with a lot of this

Just think its a hard sell to fans to be sellers while having a legitimate shot at winning the division
RE: Not just a contender, but the way Hank  
MetsAreBack : 1/5/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13773665 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


so much mediocrity though no one can roll 4 lines like the Rangers can, again their Achilles heel is defense, I think Shattenkirk and Smith are poor (shattenkirk mostly in the defensive zone, Smith overall),


The Rangers aren't a four line team this year. And they certainly aren't now with Kreider shelved for months. In fact, they've scored more than 2 regulation, non-empty net goals in just 5 of their past 15 games.

The defense gets too much criticism... and offense too much credit... with AV coached teams. THe tempo he wants to play with puts enormous pressure on defenders and goalies,... but is a hell of a lot of fun for forwards, particularly speedy forwards.

Shattenkirk has been a terrific addition this team - I don't understand the criticism at all. He's Yandle, only younger, cheaper and probably more productive. Smith has been the disappointment.

I don't think this is our year, but I've been predicting this teams demise for two years now and they somehow despite terrible metrics seem to find a way to make the playoffs anyway. So we'll see -

Stamkos by the way was only out 2 months with blood clots.. sounds like Kreider is going to be out a lot longer than that. Fuck.
That's not the way the AV system is supposed to work though  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 2:52 pm : link
the forwards are "supposed" to handle the brunt of the work which is why you try to build a team that can legit roll 4 lines (and that's the way the NHL is trending anyway) and only utilize 3 D pairs.

Theory is your forwards have defensive zone responsibilities in addition to the massive forecheck/cycling style of zone entry/support that really wears them down. Just look at the bench if you can when players change. Forwards are always hunched over gasping for air while the D not so much - this is true of hockey in general, but more so in a AV/Julien system.

Your D are supposed to be able to log 18+ min since the burden is supposed to be less.

Which is why I question the fit of a guy like Yandle or Shattenkirk, or even Subban (even while he was one of my favorite players) in that system since they do not excel in defensive zone coverage and breakout IMO which is the core responsibility of the D in that system.

Sure, offense from the points is always desired, but if this system is working you should be able to get by with mediocre defense offensive contribution as long as they're solid in their end and defensively on the point limiting odd man rushes, poor pinches, etc.

Part of getting shelled each night could be at least partially (or primarily) on (and I'm not saying it is, I don't watch the Rangers enough) the defense being poor with breakouts and positioning in the defensive end. Giving up a lot of shots isn't always on the forwards.


The scoring drought is a legit concern, but sometimes that goes in cycles, and I know Kreider will be tough to replace, that's why I suggested a Pacioretty trade (for example), could be anyone, several teams looking to sell.
RE: I think they gave Smith his deal  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13773742 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
not expecting to get Shattenkirk. Now he's a bit necessary, and he hasn't played as well as he did in his short stint last season. You'd like to be able to use your 3rd pair for a young developing player or a cheap veteran. Instead I believe we're spending close to $10 million on ours.


Meant to say he's a bit unecessary
I don't think our forwards  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 3:07 pm : link
are particularly good in their own zone with a few exceptions like Nash, Fast, and Hayes. That was made even more apparent when we weakened ourselves down the middle with the Stepan trade.

He won't solve those issues but Pacioretty should be of interest. What are the Habs looking for? And what has Bergevin got to do to get himself fired?? :)
RE: The Rangers need to be sellers this year  
Victor in CT : 1/5/2018 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13773561 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
This just isn't a contender. If Gorton is smart, they could potentially be contenders next year.


agree. they gave up way too much too soon for Nash, St. Louis, Yandle and now they're paying for it.

If I'm Gorton, I go radical and sell high on Lundqvist now while he's playing well.
....  
MetsAreBack : 1/5/2018 3:18 pm : link
Well Hank has a NMC

The Nash trade was fine. Just hasn't worked out as well as we hoped. If he's just scored in may/June like he did in octobers his first few years here.

We all hated the Yandle trade .... but reality is Duclair it turns out hasn't amounted too much. So much less painful. We ended up giving up a late first rounder - big deal. And got Vesey instead. What sucks about that trade it turns out is we should have traddd Yandle at the deadline the following season. It was obvious (the team blown out by Pitt in 5) wasn't a contender.
Too soon?  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 3:18 pm : link
The window was open, they took their shot, they came close but came up short. If injury luck went their way in 2015 there's a good chance they go to back to back cup finals. I have no regrets about those trades. They lost late first rounders, and Anthony Duclair who has been a bust in Arizona. Moving Callahan saved Sather from temptation to give him another contract, which is now one of the worst in the league.

My regrets lie more with free agent decisions and evaluations of our own personnel.

No chance they're trading Lundqvist.
And Hank not going anywhere  
MetsAreBack : 1/5/2018 3:20 pm : link
Nash would return somebody's first rounder though if we fall out of contention
RE: I don't think our forwards  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13773881 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
are particularly good in their own zone with a few exceptions like Nash, Fast, and Hayes. That was made even more apparent when we weakened ourselves down the middle with the Stepan trade.

He won't solve those issues but Pacioretty should be of interest. What are the Habs looking for? And what has Bergevin got to do to get himself fired?? :)


Montreal fans (in MTL; the real lunatics) don't just want Bergevin fired they want him criminally prosecuted.

it's been all downhill since Subban.

I don't know if he'll be fired this season, the Canadiens have something like 3 picks in the top 45 projected right now before making any trades that could include draft picks, so maybe he gets a chance to bring in some youth, but I'd fire him, - nice guy and did some good things, but no long-term vision and too reliant on language for coaches and that leads to shit like the Subban trade.

I think for Pacioretty they'd want Chytil, unless the Rangers were willing to take Azner too then a draft pick I'd guess.

and that gives the Canadiens some roster flexibility should Tavares come available (I doubt it now with the Islanders arena) or other center/top D.
That Sergachev trade...  
Kyle in NY : 1/5/2018 3:26 pm : link
yikes
RE: That Sergachev trade...  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13773928 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
yikes


While I didn't like that trade at the time and still don't - I never would have made it, I wouldn't use that as one that should get him criminally charged (LOL). Drouin is young and talented too. the biggest issue I have with the trade is the Canadiens needed Centers and defense, Drouin is neither.

Sergachev is talented no doubt, and he's just 19 years old, but he's also playing a lot of minutes with Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman. I could put up decent numbers with those guys. I'd like to see him excel without them too. I like his game though.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2018 3:31 pm : link
I think the Habs are badly run, but the Panthers/Oilers are probably much worse.
RE: ....  
pjcas18 : 1/5/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13773940 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think the Habs are badly run, but the Panthers/Oilers are probably much worse.


Agree. the Panthers botched the expansion draft worse than any other team. And Chiarelli is a clown.

It's a shame McDavid will be wasted there until Chiarelli is fired.
The biggest mistakes were letting Stralman go  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 3:41 pm : link
and trading so many draft picks. Giving up a bunch for Eric Staal and then Vigneault misusing him criminally is up there too - he can still play, as we've seen. Which, of course, suggests that retaining Vigneault has been the biggest mistake of all.

Did AV misuse Staal?  
MetsAreBack : 1/5/2018 4:54 pm : link
I recall him getting hurt and was never the same after that. Not sure I can pin that on AV.

And it was retain Stepan or Staal. Not both. They chose Stepan.
This team doesn't  
brunswick : 1/5/2018 4:57 pm : link
miss Stepan at all.
The rib surgery apparently went well  
MetsAreBack : 1/9/2018 5:41 pm : link
but won't be reevaluated for 6 weeks. Realistically, mid March would be absolute best case for a return... that's a lot of games to try and survive without many goal scorers on this team.
Back to the Corner