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Not a huge CFF watcher but argument against Barkley?

DanMetroMan : 1/5/2018 5:06 pm
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Ronald Jones II is an absolute monster and his decision to turn pro adds more star power to perhaps the best running back class in 20-plus years:
Jones
Derrius Guice
Bryce Love
Nick Chubb
Sony Michel
Josh Adams
Royce Freeman
Akrum Wadley
Myles Gaskin
Kerryon Johnson
Rashad Penny
Great year  
Archer : 1/5/2018 5:09 pm : link
Great year to have the 2nd pick
Exactly  
Greg from LI : 1/5/2018 5:10 pm : link
There are so many great backs this year.
To  
DanMetroMan : 1/5/2018 5:10 pm : link
be clear, I'm aware of some of these guys, I'm just curious if the more "expert"-like people on here agree that the RB crop is SO good that Barkley would be a poor pick at 2?
He didn't  
Pete in MD : 1/5/2018 5:11 pm : link
even mention Barkley.
RE: He didn't  
DanMetroMan : 1/5/2018 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13774110 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
even mention Barkley.


I'm aware. My point was is this tweet an argument against Barkley at 2. The class being SO strong that Barkley would be a poor use of the #2 pick. How much better is Barkley than a guy who might be there at 34 (I'm asking honestly, not rhetorically).
A lot of Good RBs  
lax counsel : 1/5/2018 5:13 pm : link
There enough quality running backs to pick one up in the second or third round. There are not enough quality qbs to do the same. That's really the only argument you need.
See  
mdthedream : 1/5/2018 5:18 pm : link
trading back makes more sense in the second round seeing its the second day and teams are really wanting a said player. This way we could draft a stud RB in the second and add a Olineman or two OL.
RE: RE: He didn't  
Pete in MD : 1/5/2018 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13774113 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13774110 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


even mention Barkley.



I'm aware. My point was is this tweet an argument against Barkley at 2. The class being SO strong that Barkley would be a poor use of the #2 pick. How much better is Barkley than a guy who might be there at 34 (I'm asking honestly, not rhetorically).


I understood your point. I think the fact that he forgot Barkley in his list of top RBs in the draft is pretty funny.
If you think that Barkley is a HOF running back,  
81_Great_Dane : 1/5/2018 5:20 pm : link
and that there's no elite, franchise QB there, you take Barkley.

If you think there's a HOF QB and a HOF RB available when you pick, take the QB.

If you think Barkley is a solid NFL starter, a guy who might make the Pro Bowl a couple of times, well, you can get a guy like that later in the draft.
people question Barkey's ability to run between the tackles  
Vanzetti : 1/5/2018 5:20 pm : link
He appeared to be shut down several times during the season.

Nobody question his explosivness in the open field. But will he be the next Reggie Bush?

Not saying I agree but that is the concern I have heard voiced.
Lots of these guys  
ryanmkeane : 1/5/2018 5:21 pm : link
had good college production, but once the combine process ends Iím willing to bet that Barkley will be far and away the consensus top 5 pick because of his combine and interview. Heís the best athlete of the bunch and itís not close.
I'd love Barkley, best player in the draft maybe...but...  
edavisiii : 1/5/2018 5:23 pm : link
I am not sure he makes us that much better if we can't block for him. Let's hope DG keeps his promise and improves the OL in free agency so we can "not shop hungry" and get the best player. I'm torn, I think a QB is the best decision if the Giants feel that there is a QB at 2. If they don't, and its possible than we need to go to the best player. If we could trade down and get an OL in the 1st round that is good value and a RB later on we might be better off. Remember, you can get a good RT, G or C later in the draft.
You absolutely have to include  
Earl the goat : 1/5/2018 5:23 pm : link
Damien Harris on this list. Heís an early to late second rounder
Barkley would be an AWFUL use of #2  
Stan in LA : 1/5/2018 5:25 pm : link
ESPECIALLY with the studs available in the 2nd round that can actually break a tackle.
RBs are a dime a dozen  
WillVAB : 1/5/2018 5:25 pm : link
Wait until the 3rd and youíll get someone just as productive.
RE: people question Barkey's ability to run between the tackles  
allstarjim : 1/5/2018 5:32 pm : link
In comment 13774121 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
He appeared to be shut down several times during the season.

Nobody question his explosivness in the open field. But will he be the next Reggie Bush?

Not saying I agree but that is the concern I have heard voiced.


Far too powerful a runner to be the next Reggie Bush. However, it's a legitimate argument that with all the positional talent, you can probably wait and get another guy...but you also have to understand, just because you can get a really good player later, it's often ELITE, special players that win games for you in the NFL.

If you want to get that true difference-maker, sometimes the "let's wait a round or two approach" doesn't get you the guy that would've really improved your team.

I really like Ronald Jones II. He's not the physical specimen of Barkley, but he is special with the ball in his hands, really phenomenal lateral agility and speed.
No thanks to Ronald Jones...  
EricJ : 1/5/2018 5:39 pm : link
I will state up front that all I did was watch his last two years highlights on youtube. So, no film study or anything like that.

What I saw was a guy with a lot of speed who is great in the open field. What I did not see enough of was his ability to pickup tough yards between the tackles.

So, to me he seemed to fit in the NFL as more of a change of pace guy and even a third down back. Maybe I am wrong.
Can't take a RB with the 2nd pick in the draft, but...  
GiantJake : 1/5/2018 5:45 pm : link
The Giants could wait until the top of the 2nd or 3rd round and still get a good back.
You look at what that crop did this year  
BigBlueHens : 1/5/2018 5:50 pm : link
and it can be easy to make a case against Barkley. He is a game changer, but he was also shut down some games. I would not be against the Barkley pick, but I would be more excited to hold off and grab one of those guys in the 2nd or 3rd.

Another think to look at is some of the interior offensive lineman at 34 overall. There will be some guys there that I am excited about. I think Gettleman made it simple, we are looking at a offensive lineman, defensive lineman, or quarterback at 2.

Imagine grabbing our QB of the future, having Eli and Webb, a stud interior guard (Price, Hernandez), and a defensive line or running back in the 3rd? It would remind me of 2004, where they grabbed Eli then Snee! Even more, if they think Webb is the guy, which he very much could be with some good coaching, and grabbing an impact defensive player at 2, and then a guard and running back. Sign me up. This draft is deep in my opinion, and have the 2nd overall is a good thing.
I'm intrigued by the comparisons to Marshall Faulk.  
81_Great_Dane : 1/5/2018 6:03 pm : link
Threat as a runner and a receiver.

But I'm not an expert. I just want somebody great, at some position. More OBJs, please.
RE: I'm intrigued by the comparisons to Marshall Faulk.  
bw in dc : 1/5/2018 6:16 pm : link
In comment 13774156 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
Threat as a runner and a receiver.

But I'm not an expert. I just want somebody great, at some position. More OBJs, please.


Itís a fair comparison. Plus, Barkley is a stud blocker in pass protection.

But, like nearly every year, there are quality RBs all across the college landscape. Itís one of the most commoditized position in the NFL. So using a #2 pick essentially wastes a draft pick...

The 2nd Overall Pick Is About BPA  
Trainmaster : 1/5/2018 6:17 pm : link
plain and simple.

I look at it this way, there are 3 to 5 players voted into the HOF each year. IF the HOF talent was equally distributed by draft year (which it isnít) and if you could know beforehand which 3 to 5 players from that year were the HOFers (which you canít), you pick them with the top 3 to 5 overall pics.

With the 2nd overall pick in the 2018 draft, the Giants should be looking for a future HOF player almost regardless of the position they play.

That could be a QB, RB, CB, DE. Would you take a future HOF guard with the number 2 pick? IF I knew I was getting Larry Allen 2.0, Iím running to the podium to draft a guard IF the QBs, RBs, DEs are all not future HOFers.

Obviously a stellar, but not guaranteed HOF QB may be the better pick over a potential HOF guard.
RE: No thanks to Ronald Jones...  
robbieballs2003 : 1/5/2018 6:17 pm : link
In comment 13774136 EricJ said:
Quote:
I will state up front that all I did was watch his last two years highlights on youtube. So, no film study or anything like that.

What I saw was a guy with a lot of speed who is great in the open field. What I did not see enough of was his ability to pickup tough yards between the tackles.

So, to me he seemed to fit in the NFL as more of a change of pace guy and even a third down back. Maybe I am wrong.


You might want to watch some more videos. Yes, he isn't your typical short yardage runner because he iis only like 200 pounds but he totally changed his game up this year and forced a ton of missed tackles. Imo, USC did not use him right at all. He catches the ball effortlessly but he was barely used in the pass game. Imo, he is just like Kamara. Guice is like Elliott. The problem is both of these guys are almost definitely going in the first round so you cannot wait on them. Love has the speed but his size is worrisome. Penny is intriguing. Great size, speed, and production. He seems a little stiffer than the others but that could just be my limited knowledge of him. Yes, there are some great backs in this draft but you cannot just wait and wait. Just because a draft is deep at a certain position doesn't mean you wait to take a player at a certain position because someone might be there later.
I remember there  
bc4life : 1/5/2018 6:19 pm : link
used to be this jinx thing about Penn State RBs
RE: Barkley would be an AWFUL use of #2  
santacruzom : 1/5/2018 6:39 pm : link
In comment 13774127 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
ESPECIALLY with the studs available in the 2nd round that can actually break a tackle.


How many of those guys rank higher than Barkley did in yardage after contact?
RE: RE: No thanks to Ronald Jones...  
WillVAB : 1/5/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 13774171 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13774136 EricJ said:


Quote:


I will state up front that all I did was watch his last two years highlights on youtube. So, no film study or anything like that.

What I saw was a guy with a lot of speed who is great in the open field. What I did not see enough of was his ability to pickup tough yards between the tackles.

So, to me he seemed to fit in the NFL as more of a change of pace guy and even a third down back. Maybe I am wrong.



You might want to watch some more videos. Yes, he isn't your typical short yardage runner because he iis only like 200 pounds but he totally changed his game up this year and forced a ton of missed tackles. Imo, USC did not use him right at all. He catches the ball effortlessly but he was barely used in the pass game. Imo, he is just like Kamara. Guice is like Elliott. The problem is both of these guys are almost definitely going in the first round so you cannot wait on them. Love has the speed but his size is worrisome. Penny is intriguing. Great size, speed, and production. He seems a little stiffer than the others but that could just be my limited knowledge of him. Yes, there are some great backs in this draft but you cannot just wait and wait. Just because a draft is deep at a certain position doesn't mean you wait to take a player at a certain position because someone might be there later.


I doubt it. The teams in the market for a RB are in the top 10 ó everyone but the Bears. Outside of that maybe the Lions at 20. Barkley and Guice are probably safe bets for the 1st round but wouldnít be surprised if Guice slid to the top part of the 2nd.

If the Giants want one of these guys I think one or two will be available at their 3rd round pick.
How about the fact that the Giants desperately  
NYG07 : 1/5/2018 7:56 pm : link
Need a new young QB to compete in this division. I like Barkley, but taking a RB at 2 overall is a waste. I would much rather grab one of the Georgia RBs in the 3rd round.
What is CFF?  
figgy2989 : 1/5/2018 7:58 pm : link
.
Ronald Jones  
Sy'56 : 1/5/2018 9:49 pm : link
is the one back I can see leapfrogging Barkley.

RE: Barkley would be an AWFUL use of #2  
nyballa0891 : 1/5/2018 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13774127 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
ESPECIALLY with the studs available in the 2nd round that can actually break a tackle.


Haha the guy had the most yards after contact last season some people on here are a compelte joke
If the Giants were genuinely interested in McCaffrey...  
Jerry K : 1/5/2018 10:40 pm : link
they'd probably be wild for Barkley. People keep overlooking SB as a receiver.
Nearly every year  
Peppers : 1/5/2018 11:08 pm : link
The RB draft class is loaded with talent. After Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown all failed to live up to expectations the dynamic started to changed quite a bit. Positional Value is always factored in now and fact is RB is not one of the premier positions anymore. There's too much talent that saturated the value of the position. You can get a starter in the 3rd round, the percentages are very good for RB in later rounds. It makes no sense to select a RB over a QB based on value of the position alone.
in choosing between a HoF RB and a HoF guard, I take the guard  
markky : 1/5/2018 11:19 pm : link
he'd be on the team twice as many years
I donít have any problem taking Barkley,  
Section331 : 1/6/2018 12:39 am : link
but a RB is not going to be the franchise changer a QB could be. With all of the Giants needs, the only position I am taking at 2 is a QB. If they are not taking a QB, trade down and pick up additional premium picks.
I love Barkley  
Big Rick in FL : 1/6/2018 8:31 am : link
But you definitely don't take him at 2. You take the QB. If you really want a RB you do it later in the draft. Probably get a guy like Rodney Anderson/Sony Michel/Nick Chubb someone like that in the 3rd round.

Either that or we can roll with Darkwa & Gallman who have definitely flashed. Could be solid starters with a good OL.
RE: people question Barkey's ability to run between the tackles  
Toth029 : 1/6/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 13774121 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
He appeared to be shut down several times during the season.

Nobody question his explosivness in the open field. But will he be the next Reggie Bush?

Not saying I agree but that is the concern I have heard voiced.

Christian McCaffrey. Same type.
RE: Ronald Jones  
KingBlue : 1/6/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 13774450 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
is the one back I can see leapfrogging Barkley.


Wow! By leapfrogging...do you mean a top ten round 1 selection for Jones?
I think Barkley is an immediate top 5 Back  
Rafflee : 1/6/2018 9:32 am : link
He catches the Ball. He has power and speed and he is an unusual physical combination...his lower body flexibility and balance are amazing. I see him as a combination of L. Bell/Tony Dorsett/Franco Harris--- Yes..that's an unbelievably High standard. He would not be a BAD Draft Pick...and it does depend what else a team has in place already

Most NFL Level Starting QB's and especially Stars are Drafted at the top of the draft--- Star RB's as disbursed more throughout the Draft. If you have the QB, you can format the team in a Variety of Ways.

I think it's easy to find a direct correlation between Great QB's and Championships---Multiple Championships. That's not even close to debatable...especially over the past 20 years. It's very much driven by the structure of the modern game.

I wouldn't measure reaching for a QB who fails against the high floor or a great running back like SB.... but the QB is the First Spike to drive
Within classifications all are not created equal  
Bob in Newburgh : 1/6/2018 9:39 am : link
Example: Eli is a great QB, but not at all comparable to transcendent guys like his brother, Brady or Brees.

If your scouts believe SB is Tomlinson, Falk, or Petersen - you take him in an instant.

My own belief is that Rosen, Darnold, Allen have substantial bust potential and that none of them is sure thing.

Barkley is SO much better...  
STLGiant : 1/6/2018 3:19 pm : link
When you consider Barkley's OL consists of the following players this season, does your opinion of him change?

LT-Will Fries RS-Freshman 4*
LG-Steve Gonzales RS-Soph 4*
OC-Connor McGovern Soph. 4*
RG-Brendan Mahon RS-Senior 4*
RT-Chaz Wright RS-Junior. 4*

Three guys from NJ, all 4* recruits coming out of high school. Barkley's ability is quite good with an inexperienced OL...whereas other backs in the Draft have many more upperclassmen...then again Penn State's opponents weren't that great (sic).

Barkley cannot be compared to others in this class. Running, catching and blocking...the guy is an immediate impact player AND he is a Jr., so his legs are going to have one less season of wear & tear. Hell, we don't even know how good Webb is or isn't...and we've seen how good the USC, UCLA and OK products did in big games over New Year's. JS...
RE: The 2nd Overall Pick Is About BPA  
81_Great_Dane : 1/6/2018 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13774170 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
plain and simple.

I look at it this way, there are 3 to 5 players voted into the HOF each year. IF the HOF talent was equally distributed by draft year (which it isnít) and if you could know beforehand which 3 to 5 players from that year were the HOFers (which you canít), you pick them with the top 3 to 5 overall pics.

With the 2nd overall pick in the 2018 draft, the Giants should be looking for a future HOF player almost regardless of the position they play.

That could be a QB, RB, CB, DE. Would you take a future HOF guard with the number 2 pick? IF I knew I was getting Larry Allen 2.0, Iím running to the podium to draft a guard IF the QBs, RBs, DEs are all not future HOFers.

Obviously a stellar, but not guaranteed HOF QB may be the better pick over a potential HOF guard.
This.
Apparently  
santacruzom : 1/7/2018 12:33 pm : link
A good argument against taking Barkley is that the Rams lost against the Falcons yesterday.
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