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Belichick and Cheating

jpennyva : 1/6/2018 8:44 am
I am part of the very small minority that does not want Belichich as HC because of his reputation for cheating. I get that even if, say, 25% (or even 50%) of his success was assisted by cheating, the remaining percentage would still be a very high success rate in the NFL. I get that he was previously part of the Giants family (and I donít believe cheating went on then). But he has been caught cheating and I do believe it happened (but why on earth film the Jets of all teams Ė thatís the team he got caught with and I think they filmed other teams and just didnít get caught for those). For those who want BB as the NY Giants head coach, my questions for you are:

1) Do you not think that Belichick cheated?
a) If not, do you think the Patriots in the BB era have not cheated at all or do you think others have but BB wasnít involved (though that last part doesnít really pass the sniff test)?
2) Do you believe that all (or most) other NFL teams practice in illegal activities to gain a competitive advantage so that it doesnít matter that BB cheated?
3) Do you believe that the Patriots did at times cheat but that it was inconsequential to their success (as in, they would have won anyway)?
4) Do you believe that he cheated but are only concerned with winning and would be OK with whatever methods BB would employ in pursuit of another Lombardi trophy?
Mix of 2 and 3  
UConn4523 : 1/6/2018 8:47 am : link
BB definitely cheats but I also think his owner lets him. But heís also the best coach of all time IMO so itís hard to prove how much of an impact itís had.
What is all this Belichick stuff?  
Tark10 : 1/6/2018 8:48 am : link
I didn't know recreational pot was now legal in New York...
I thinkl he knows the rule book better than anyone else  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/6/2018 9:03 am : link
and takes advantage of the inherent conflicts between the letter and spirit of the rules. He pushes the envelope. Someone always will. He is just better at it.
or  
rasbutant : 1/6/2018 9:05 am : link
ďIf you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enoughĒ ó made famous by former Chicago Cubs first basemen, Mark Grace
LOL  
ZogZerg : 1/6/2018 9:14 am : link
He's not coming to NY
RE: or  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/6/2018 9:25 am : link
In comment 13774684 rasbutant said:
Quote:
ďIf you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enoughĒ ó made famous by former Chicago Cubs first basemen, Mark Grace


Mark Grace huh? Lol.

I can guarantee you it was famously said before him from people like Al Davis all the way to Billy Martin.
Parcells said it best  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/6/2018 9:33 am : link
If you ainít cheating you ainít tryin.
RE: Parcells said it best  
trueblueinpw : 1/6/2018 9:41 am : link
In comment 13774701 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
If you ainít cheating you ainít tryin.


Tuna!
I think all teams push the rules  
Boatie Warrant : 1/6/2018 9:46 am : link
I just think Bill is willing to push further than most. I have the impression he reads the rule book every night before bed like others read novels.

Whatever it is he is doing it is working.
I dont care about that  
sharpshooter66 : 1/6/2018 10:14 am : link
The things on spygate were hings that every team does, it was a technicality in the rules that Mangini exposed because he knew him. Mangini also had a guy recording the Patriots lol
RE: I thinkl he knows the rule book better than anyone else  
sharpshooter66 : 1/6/2018 10:15 am : link
In comment 13774680 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
and takes advantage of the inherent conflicts between the letter and spirit of the rules. He pushes the envelope. Someone always will. He is just better at it.


Exactly
He definitely cheated  
NYG07 : 1/6/2018 10:17 am : link
With all the spygate stuff. If you ask Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, they are convinced they would have won the superbowl in 2001 had the Patriots not filmed their walkthrough.

As for deflategate, I have no idea how much of a role he had in that. Seemed more like Brady cheating but who knows.

don't care  
pjcas18 : 1/6/2018 10:21 am : link
I'm not judgmental, if he's not in prison or suspended by the league, sign him up, that goes for players, coaches, executives, etc.
RE: don't care  
NYG07 : 1/6/2018 10:28 am : link
In comment 13774741 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I'm not judgmental, if he's not in prison or suspended by the league, sign him up, that goes for players, coaches, executives, etc.


Oh I agree 100%. His history of cheating would have zero impact on my desire to have him as head coach of this team. He is the GOAT.
NFL cheating goes back  
Manning10 : 1/6/2018 10:47 am : link
to the inception of the league, whether spies in locker rooms (or peep hole to listen) paying for information.
Were the Giants and Wellington Mara cheating when they changed from cleats to Sneakers before a Championship game with the Bears?
Al Davis was always accused of something, always denied by the Raiders with a smile and a wink.
All teams are accused of cheating, btw  
JohnF : 1/6/2018 10:54 am : link
http://yourteamcheats.com/

And the Giants under Fassel were suspected of stealing radio signals:

2001:Suggestions of NY Giants cheating
Donít Care  
WillVAB : 1/6/2018 10:54 am : link
.
I don't want Belichick either--  
TDMaker85 : 1/6/2018 11:20 am : link
It's not just the cheating. I'd like to feel proud of our team. Hard to when it's led by a guy who seems so dour, shallow and contemptuous.
It's a tough question, but...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/6/2018 11:29 am : link
I do think he stretched the rules in the videogate incident,  
Section331 : 1/6/2018 11:37 am : link
but the rule had just been changed to ban filming opponents practices, and the Pats won 18 in a row after being dinged for it. I think deflategate was ridiculously overblown, and Iím not sure B.B. even knew anything about it. It sounded more like Brady who liked his balls deflated (pun intended).

Iím firmly in the camp of heís not coming here. Even if he wanted to leave NE, how would that work? Assuming, as weíve heard, that he only signs one year contracts, when does his contract officially expire. Iím guessing itís at the end of the league year in March, but even if itís after the SB, the Giants are going to hold off on naming a coach for that long? I think that would be very suspicious and could lead to tampering charges.
I m in the camp  
joeinpa : 1/6/2018 11:42 am : link
Of: I don t care
The guy cheated. Period.  
an_idol_mind : 1/6/2018 11:48 am : link
He got caught, he paid the price.

He's still a great coach without needing to cheat, which makes what he did extra dumb.
RE: He definitely cheated  
ThatLimerickGuy : 1/6/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13774734 NYG07 said:
Quote:
With all the spygate stuff. If you ask Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, they are convinced they would have won the superbowl in 2001 had the Patriots not filmed their walkthrough.

As for deflategate, I have no idea how much of a role he had in that. Seemed more like Brady cheating but who knows.


Oh yes...so if you ask the cocky team that entered the game as 17 point favorites why they lost they will of course point to spygate instead of how they just got outplayed by a tough defense the likes of which they had not seen all year.

That is a lot of sour grapes if you ask me.
He is the best coach in history....  
EricJ : 1/6/2018 12:42 pm : link
filming a practice or two did not help him to be as successful as he is today. The cheating thing is so over blown.

In the end, the guys on the field still have to make plays. He and his assistants still have to come up with a game plan each week to stop the opponent.
RE: He definitely cheated  
Section331 : 1/6/2018 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13774734 NYG07 said:
Quote:
With all the spygate stuff. If you ask Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, they are convinced they would have won the superbowl in 2001 had the Patriots not filmed their walkthrough.


Filming a walkthrough loses you a SB? LOL. The Rams were unprepared, end of story. They thought they could walk in and get the Lombardi.
RE: He definitely cheated  
bluepepper : 1/6/2018 1:26 pm : link
In comment 13774734 NYG07 said:
Quote:
With all the spygate stuff. If you ask Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, they are convinced they would have won the superbowl in 2001 had the Patriots not filmed their walkthrough.


The Pats didn't film the walk-trough. Classic case of the initial false report getting tons of attention and the retraction getting little.

A reporter misconstrued something Matt Walsh said and later apologized for the story. Walsh says neither he nor anyone else taped the walk-through.
He didn't cheat  
Milton : 1/6/2018 1:30 pm : link
Both Spygate and Deflategate are non-stories as far as I'm concerned. Gettleman used to record opposing teams signals for the Giants, but he would speak into an tape recorder rather than videotape it, so it wasn't a violation of the rules. Belichick's purpose in videotaping signals (and in an obvious way) was to force teams to spend practice time disguising their signals, it wasn't his goal to actually steal the signals.

As for Deflategate, it was just an arbitrary rule that should never have been in the books to begin with. As long as the ball can spiral through the air, each QB should have the privilege of choosing what level of inflation he prefers. If both starting QBs had to share the same ball I would feel differently, but since that's not the case, the inflation level should be left to the sole discretion of each QB (assuming it's inflated to a functional level).

And last I checked, it was only a rumor without proof that the Patriots filmed the walkthrough prior to the Super Bowl vs Rams.
RE: He didn't cheat  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/6/2018 1:46 pm : link
Quote:
Both Spygate and Deflategate are non-stories as far as I'm concerned. Gettleman used to record opposing teams signals for the Giants, but he would speak into an tape recorder rather than videotape it, so it wasn't a violation of the rules. Belichick's purpose in videotaping signals (and in an obvious way) was to force teams to spend practice time disguising their signals, it wasn't his goal to actually steal the signals.


How exactly can you definitively say what his intent was?

Quote:
as for Deflategate, it was just an arbitrary rule that should never have been in the books to begin with. As long as the ball can spiral through the air, each QB should have the privilege of choosing what level of inflation he prefers. If both starting QBs had to share the same ball I would feel differently, but since that's not the case, the inflation level should be left to the sole discretion of each QB (assuming it's inflated to a functional level).


Just because you think the rule "should have never been on the books" doesn't mean breaking the rule should be excused. It is a rule regardless of what Milton feels it "should" be.

Having said all that, I don't feel any of it is serious enough to not consider bringing him to N.Y. if the opportunity presents itself.
...  
NYG07 : 1/6/2018 2:17 pm : link
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1508325-did-the-patriots-really-cheat-marshall-faulk-out-of-a-super-bowl
RE: RE: He definitely cheated  
NYG07 : 1/6/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13774916 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13774734 NYG07 said:


Quote:


With all the spygate stuff. If you ask Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, they are convinced they would have won the superbowl in 2001 had the Patriots not filmed their walkthrough.

As for deflategate, I have no idea how much of a role he had in that. Seemed more like Brady cheating but who knows.




Oh yes...so if you ask the cocky team that entered the game as 17 point favorites why they lost they will of course point to spygate instead of how they just got outplayed by a tough defense the likes of which they had not seen all year.

That is a lot of sour grapes if you ask me.


Really? A defense they had not seen all year? I certainly remember the Rams going into Foxborough in a night game that year and defeating the Patriots.

Read the article I linked. The Rams had plays that they had never run before, that had never been on film, and the Patriots had every answer for them.

The Rams were certainly overconfident going into that game, but they were the best team in the NFL by far, and everything they did was shut down by the Pats.
RE: I thinkl he knows the rule book better than anyone else  
old man : 1/6/2018 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13774680 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
and takes advantage of the inherent conflicts between the letter and spirit of the rules. He pushes the envelope. Someone always will. He is just better at it.

Isn't Ernie Adams his rule book guy, and he just gets 'creative' with it? And as you said, is better than anyone at it.
@NYG07  
FragileFox2 : 1/6/2018 7:11 pm : link
That game you're thinking about the Pats utterly destroyed the Rams. And if it wasn't for Brady fumbling in the end zone spotting the Rams a TD, it would have been a bigger blow out.

ESPN annointed the Rams that year the best team ever, and the Rams believed it. And they certainly had the momentum and should have won. But it wasn't cheating. They got outcoached.
RE: RE: I thinkl he knows the rule book better than anyone else  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/6/2018 9:48 pm : link
In comment 13775164 old man said:
Quote:
In comment 13774680 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:


Quote:


and takes advantage of the inherent conflicts between the letter and spirit of the rules. He pushes the envelope. Someone always will. He is just better at it.


Isn't Ernie Adams his rule book guy, and he just gets 'creative' with it? And as you said, is better than anyone at it.

This is correct.
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