On the halftime show on NBC, Mike Florio just made an interesting comment.
He said he spoke to several scouts and personnel people in the league, and they all agreed that the 2017 first-round quarterback class of DeShaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, and Mitchell Trubisky is stronger than the combination of Rosen and Darnold.
Now I'm no professional, but we've been hearing for about a year that the potential and sheer talent of Rosen and Darnold is generational.
I don't recall Trubisky or Mahomes being highly touted. I feel like there were mixed opinions on Watson.
Beyond Rosen and Darnold, Allen, Jackson, and Mayfield round out a very strong QB class. And that doesn't even account for other strong prospects such as Rudolph, Lock, and Falk.
Is Florio full of it, or is everyone overrating Rosen and Darnold?
Meyers? Do you mean Rick Mirer?
Just have to wait and see what they are
For all we know that one GM is the guy from the Bears trying to make his Trubisky pick look better.
It's ONE guy's opinion...that's all.
One GM tells you that these guys arent that good.. Its probably the same GM who realizes they need to trade up to get them.. so why raise the price by saying how good they are..
Another GM says they are a once in a generation talent.. because he wants to trade down and score a big haul of draft picks..
Good post. I think that's an accurate assessment. Basically, up until the draft and even after, 2017 was considered a historically weak qb class. Now it's better than a highly touted one? Of course lower pick scouts want to underrate these guys, they want a cheaper price to move up.
Also, don't take anyone's word for it, there is plenty of tape out there on these guys. Look at Darnold and Rosen highlights, watch them go through progressions, read a defense, throw with accuracy in intermediate and longer routes, and be a major part of their offenses. After the ND game, Darnold caught fire and put USC on his back all the way to a League title.
Also, ask yourselves, if scouts now hate these guys, how come there was so much talk and effort to tank to get a shot to draft one of these two? Doesn't make sense at all, and this "new" evaluation is just posturing.
Also, can we please just pump the brakes with Webb love. Watch the game film on this guy, he does not read a defense, greatly struggled with accuracy in anything thrown over 10 yards, and was just a cog in the wheel in the Cal offense. I know I've been accused of hating Webb, but it's my belief he may not have even been drafted in 2018 class. Ask yourselves, after game 5, they Giants knew their season was over, after game 10 they knew they were headed for a top 5 pick, and Webb wasn't even good enough to get a jersey until week 17, why not? I don't want to harp on Webb, but he's just not comparable to Darnold/Rosen.
So this brings us back to Webb. Its becoming clearer that the guys picked ahead of him were really good players, and based on these comments mentioned above Webb could have been considered with the top QB's of this class. We already have him in the fold and have worked with him for a year. Why people dismiss him so quickly here makes no sense.
So last year's class now is looking a lot better after they have a year under their belt in the league. And as such are better than this year's class? Even with a "lesser" final year of college, this year's class is still better going into the draft than last year's class. This will bear out once they too have a chance to play in the league. But outside of Watson and mop up duty for Mahomes in one game, what have we seen from the rest of the class that makes you think that class is really going to be good? Trubisky ended up 59% 2100 yds 7 TDs/7 INTs.
Huh?
More likely he wouldn't have even been drafted.
@ Denver 22 for 35, 284 yards, 0 TD's, 1INT.
Trubisky may have been worse.
12 games, 59.4% completion rate, 7 TD's, 7 INT's, 2193 yards.
I think Watson is the real deal, but overall, I was stunned by this assessment Florio gave. I though the class last year was very weak, and this year's class has a ton of talent.
What is this based on?
It is like Webb has grown in mythical status over the last 6 months by not playing a snap while we have been able to scrutinize every snap of the QB's playing in college this year and have somehow been able to project Webb into this group.
What if Webb would've had a mediocre season at Cal? Somehow, he's been able to grow in stature by not having been seen. Great way to boost one's own stock.
Meyers?
Do you mean Mirer?
Quote:
,
Meyers?
Do you mean Mirer?
Or what RDJR said.
The interesting thing, though, is that a lot of these QBs are turning out to be good. Giving the lie to the notion that the QBs bust rate is so high.
Quote:
amongst this group.
What is this based on?
It is like Webb has grown in mythical status over the last 6 months by not playing a snap while we have been able to scrutinize every snap of the QB's playing in college this year and have somehow been able to project Webb into this group.
What if Webb would've had a mediocre season at Cal? Somehow, he's been able to grow in stature by not having been seen. Great way to boost one's own stock.
Spot on. I don't get it with Webb. But I will say, there is game film from 2016 on Webb against many teams, showing every pass. I have a feeling that many who love him, have never actually watched these tapes or seen him play. This guy never comes off his first receiver. But more frightening, he consistently threw NO WHERE near receivers when he had to throw the ball more than 15 yards. And now posters are saying he would have been a first round pick? Does anyone read the 2017 scouting profiles, scouts are comparing his ceiling to Matt Moore and Nick Foles!
@ Denver 22 for 35, 284 yards, 0 TD's, 1INT.
Trubisky may have been worse.
12 games, 59.4% completion rate, 7 TD's, 7 INT's, 2193 yards.
I think Watson is the real deal, but overall, I was stunned by this assessment Florio gave. I though the class last year was very weak, and this year's class has a ton of talent.
Well, there's a big difference between comparing this class as a whole or just Darnold/Rosen.
If it's the former, I don't agree with the premise at all.
If it's just Rosen/Darnold, then I think it's possible.
This year's group of QB's look like nothing special. A solid C as a group, with one exception, and that's Mayfield. And Mayfield will likely end up being either a very good QB, or a bust.
2017 - 70.5% comp, 4,627 yards, 43 TD's, 6 Int's.
Plus - 311 yards rushing, and another 5 TD's
A QB rating of 198.9, 20 points higher than anyone else.
He runs the length of the field to congratulate receives, and elevates the play of his teammates!
He's been so much better than any other QB entering the draft, that it's as plain as the nose on your face.
But can he do his act in the NFL? Stay tuned boys and girls!
Yeah, my guess is quite a few.
I'm not actually in a mood to research this but my guess is that at least half of the teams picking in the top 15 most seasons are chronically bad teams... Bad enough to be drafting high year in and year out. If that's true, these chronically bad teams likely aren't so hot at player development or maintaining continuity. They probably have coaches or GM's making poor decisions out of job security concerns. Etc.
Florio is a mouthpiece. Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Baker are all superior prospects to last year’s class coming out. Any one of these guys would’ve been the first QB off the board in last year’s draft.
2017 - 70.5% comp, 4,627 yards, 43 TD's, 6 Int's.
Plus - 311 yards rushing, and another 5 TD's
A QB rating of 198.9, 20 points higher than anyone else.
He runs the length of the field to congratulate receives, and elevates the play of his teammates!
He's been so much better than any other QB entering the draft, that it's as plain as the nose on your face.
But can he do his act in the NFL? Stay tuned boys and girls!
Here's the big question in re Baker Mayfield - Does he compare to Russell Wilson or Johnny Manziel?
Cause a Russell Wilson is worth a #2
Watson looked fantastic. But let’s see him play a full season, and then how the league adjusts to his game. And then how he adjusts to those adjustments...
Anybody watch Trubisky play? Granted, he played a lot. But his production wasn’t stirring images of Dan Marino. His best features may have been his ability to run a little bit and hand off to Howard. The jury is way, way out on him. Right now he’s more Jake Locker than anybody special.
The starter of this thread obviously doesn’t pay attention to college football. There was plenty of buzz on Mahomes, his arm talent and ability to improvise at TT. He looked good in preseason and okay in the Chiefs last game. But the only “experts” who can shed any light on his status is the Chief’s staff. They are the only ones who see him daily in practice. Suggesting that he is this sure thing, and head and shoulders above this incoming class, is also way too early.
So....Watson could be a star, Trubisky could be decent or just as likely an owner of Smashburger franchises, and Mahomes still needs to actually play.
How that equals better than these 2018 prospects is baffling.
I haven't watched full games of Darnold in some time, but I will soon.
As mentioned above, the OP just didn't understand the Florio comments. ONE nameless scout said that Rosen and Darnold were not as good as last year's QBs. One. He talked to several, and ONE made that comment. It seems that is a minority opinion, but a better headline.
Most mocks this year have Rosen and Darnold going one and two. Most mocks last year did not have QBs going that high. When the Bears traded up for Trubisky, it was largely criticized as too high for him. Mahommes and Watson didn't go until 10 because of the questions surrounding how their games would translate to the NFL.
Granted Trubisky has shown promise, and Watson had a great, but brief first year. But that QB class was largely not expected to produce many franchise QBs, and the jury is stil out on whether it will. That does not mean that last year's class was stronger than this year's because the guys in this class have not had the same opportunity.
And it's silly that this has to be said, but no Davis Webb would not be a first round pick this year. He went in the third round last year because he was a developmental QB with great physical tools who needed to learn to play the NFL game. He would not be suddenly NFL ready.
I'll bet on this class, especially depth, over last years group.
Disagree with about Darnold. I don't see that. I see a player with tremendous upside.
I need to watch Baker Mayfield some more. My initial impression though is that he is talented and closer to Russel Wilson than to Manziel, but he is not the athlete Wilson is, and I don't think he is as cerebral as Wilson. Will his schtick play at the NFL level? That is a serious question mark for me.
The spread has QBs catching and throwing to spots before the D can do anything. So they don't have to deal with a pass rush and they don't have to read coverages and go through progressions. It's catch and throw.
Darnold DOES have appear to be a tough kid with excellent ball placement and some ability to throw on the run. Beyond that we know almost nothing about him because of the stupid spread offense he runs.
Of course it isn't USC's job to prepare him for the NFL, it's to win games and this is the direction college football's gone. But it's almost ridiculous how "little" they ask him to do at QB if that's even possible.
unless of course the Giants draft him...
I haven't watched full games of Darnold in some time, but I will soon.
USC completely ripped Cal apart, there wer far superior and Webb could do nothing. Why not review a few other games where the competition was more equal, like you did for Rosen. Webb had some absolutlely huge games, like the Texas game at the beginning of the year. Pick one that is a little fairer. Rosen had some real clunkers too.
Quote:
amongst this group.
What is this based on?
It is like Webb has grown in mythical status over the last 6 months by not playing a snap while we have been able to scrutinize every snap of the QB's playing in college this year and have somehow been able to project Webb into this group.
What if Webb would've had a mediocre season at Cal? Somehow, he's been able to grow in stature by not having been seen. Great way to boost one's own stock.
Its based on their college performance, which is all we have since none of them have ever played a down in the NFL. I don't understand the comment "what if he had been mediocre". Thats the point, he wasn't. He was MVP of The Senior Bow, had 37 TDs and around 4,300 yards. Its like saying what if Darnold was mediocre (oh wait he was).
Don't believe anything.
I need to watch Baker Mayfield some more. My initial impression though is that he is talented and closer to Russel Wilson than to Manziel, but he is not the athlete Wilson is, and I don't think he is as cerebral as Wilson. Will his schtick play at the NFL level? That is a serious question mark for me.
Kudos for the Sonny Jurgensen reference. And I agree with the points you make.
Quote:
Having watched a full game for each (Webb vs USC; Rosen vs Colorado and Stanford), there is no comparison between the two. Rosen is significantly better. He has a much better arm, reads defenses quicker, throws better under pressure and is considerably more accurate. I say that last point despite the fact that the Colorado game may have been one of his worst in terms of accuracy.
I haven't watched full games of Darnold in some time, but I will soon.
USC completely ripped Cal apart, there wer far superior and Webb could do nothing. Why not review a few other games where the competition was more equal, like you did for Rosen. Webb had some absolutlely huge games, like the Texas game at the beginning of the year. Pick one that is a little fairer. Rosen had some real clunkers too.
I've watched 5 Webb games from 2016. Varying levels of competition. He is equally pedestrian in all of them. Same major flaws without any measurable improvement. Mediocre college defenses were sitting on his routes, he also had several dropped ints because he was just so heavily inaccurate throwing anything over 10 yards. He just doesn't even look remotely like an NFL qb in these films.
I agree with another poster, Rosen's films are impressive. Despite the awful offensive schemes at USC, Darnold also came across well in many of the fils I saw, nice touch on the long pass, he really was the whole offense . I also saw him scan the field with some precision. I can see the comparisons to Big Ben.
"2018 was the year of the QB" and Rosen, Darnold,Jackson, and Falk were all better than 2017 class.
Falk now is not even in the first round talk.
There was a consensus on BBI that Mahomes and Watson were system QB's that would bust in the NFL.
As interesting as the banter is most opinions have little merit and substance.
Quote:
In comment 13775862 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Having watched a full game for each (Webb vs USC; Rosen vs Colorado and Stanford), there is no comparison between the two. Rosen is significantly better. He has a much better arm, reads defenses quicker, throws better under pressure and is considerably more accurate. I say that last point despite the fact that the Colorado game may have been one of his worst in terms of accuracy.
I haven't watched full games of Darnold in some time, but I will soon.
USC completely ripped Cal apart, there wer far superior and Webb could do nothing. Why not review a few other games where the competition was more equal, like you did for Rosen. Webb had some absolutlely huge games, like the Texas game at the beginning of the year. Pick one that is a little fairer. Rosen had some real clunkers too.
I've watched 5 Webb games from 2016. Varying levels of competition. He is equally pedestrian in all of them. Same major flaws without any measurable improvement. Mediocre college defenses were sitting on his routes, he also had several dropped ints because he was just so heavily inaccurate throwing anything over 10 yards. He just doesn't even look remotely like an NFL qb in these films.
I agree with another poster, Rosen's films are impressive. Despite the awful offensive schemes at USC, Darnold also came across well in many of the fils I saw, nice touch on the long pass, he really was the whole offense . I also saw him scan the field with some precision. I can see the comparisons to Big Ben.
Look, I don't know if Webb is the answer or not. However I do think he needs to be given a chance, and I do think he's as good as some of the guys coming out this year. I also do not buy into that this class is some kind of generational class. I think its not fair to say Webb was pedestrian in college, and not any good (like in your previous post). I too have watched a lot of his games, he had a very very good college career. Like Rosen his team was so-so, so some games were much rougher than others. Here are his actual stats, no sugar coating at all:
RESULT COMP ATT PCT TD INT YDS
Haw W51-31 38 54 70.40% 4 0 441
@SDSU L45-40 41 72 56.90% 5 3 522
Texas W50-43 27 40 67.50% 4 0 396
@ASU L51-41 32 56 57.10% 5 2 478
Utah W28-23 22 35 62.90% 4 1 306
@ORST L47-44 23 44 52.30% 0 1 113
ORE W52-49 42 61 68.90% 5 0 325
@USC L45-24 34 53 64.20% 2 1 333
WASH L66-27 23 47 48.90% 1 3 262
@WSU L56-21 34 53 64.20% 3 1 425
STAN L45-31 34 57 59.60% 2 0 393
UCLA W36-10 32 48 66.70% 2 0 301
Total 382 620 61.60% 37 12 4295