Moving on from future HOF-er Eli Manning in 2018…

To be said about playing meaningful games late in the season which Eli gives them the best chance to do. There s also the school of thought that a young quarterback can use a season sitting behind a guy like Eli.

I disagree is I think the giants can easily bounce back and win 10 or 11 games next year. Its such a year to year league. I know others disagree but I really believe that to be true

In comment 13775874 joeinpa said:

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To be said about playing meaningful games late in the season which Eli gives them the best chance to

Actually no...
Being able to run the ball and stop the run gives the Giants the best chance to play meaningful games late in the season.

Or trap, in my opinion. Does he view’18 as a quick turn-around opportunity ‘17 was the result of poor coaching and an inordinate amount of injuries, or does he see it (my view) as being a complete rebuild around, maybe, 8 returning core players .

There is the recent example of the Cowboys in ‘15 to sway him in the direction of the former .Dallas had in place an excellent offensive line. They drafted Zeke. They lucked out with Prescott, who isn’t great but fits the times . If DG thinks he can do this in one off-season, then finding 2 offensive linemen early in the draft and signing another as a free-agent priority would be the way for him to go. The defensive line returns. A less psychotic relationship with the corners will improve the secondary . If you believe all that, then retaining Eli, maybe praying for Webb, and trading down is the way you go.

To me, that’s suicidal. Webb has been rendered a non-person because of the myopic way these idiots treated a 3-13 season. Eli is an old man who might be able to win in one or two fits, but his window is but for a year, maybe two. Maybe he will sleaze another as his brother did. I want the full re-do. Get the quarterback for the next era of Giants football. Start adding genuine building blocks necessary for sustained winning. Avoid going gonzo in free agency in the bi-polar , over-correction manner that was Reese’s style.

In comment 13775892 RetroJint said:

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Eli is an old man who might be able to win in one or two fits, but his window is but for a year, maybe two. Maybe he will sleaze another as his brother did. I want the full re-do. Get the quarterback for the next era of Giants football. Start adding genuine building blocks necessary for sustained winning. Avoid going gonzo in free agency in the bi-polar , over-correction manner that was Reese’s style.

This is the only logical choice for Gettleman. If he does not do this, then everything we are seeing here (new GM, new Coach, etc) from the Giants is nothing more than a PR scheme to keep the fans interested. If we dont draft a QB, my personal opinion (not fact) is because John Mara is still shell shocked from the gigantic backlash from the fans when Eli was benched....and he would not want the same thing to happen again if we go QB with that top pick.

Eli, I just have a hard time seeing Eli get enough votes. I think he really needed that third Super Bowl to make it into the HOF.

I think he has to take one. Eli is not going to be here much beyond next year, if at all, and so DG would almost be a complete idiot to ignore that fact. I also feel Eli’s play has deteriorated to some extent and that will be on tape, and I’m not so sure it can all be put on the Oline. If Eli plays next year, and the team is competitive and playoff bound, he obviously continues to play and the rookie redshirts the year. As DG said, you can’t have to much talent at any position, including QB.

Also, I’m not sure he gives us the best chance to win. He won 3 games in 2017, 11 in 2016, 5 in 2015, 6 in 2014 and 7 in 2013. That’s not a great five year track record.

If Eli returns in 2018, what happens if/when the new coach and GM want to play Webb or a new rookie QB selected in the draft in a regular season game? Does Eli graciously step aside - I don't think so. He didn't this year when the team was 2-9 or so. He didn't want to share any playing time this year so why expect him to do so if the team is playing as poorly or even marginally better in 2018.

And do the fans and media (and Eli's family) go bonzo again when the coaches want to sit Eli so they can see what Webb and/or the new rookie can do in a real game? Yes, almost certainly.

Time to move on from Eli.

In comment 13775892 RetroJint said:

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Or trap, in my opinion. Does he view’18 as a quick turn-around opportunity ‘17 was the result of poor coaching and an inordinate amount of injuries, or does he see it (my view) as being a complete rebuild around, maybe, 8 returning core players . There is the recent example of the Cowboys in ‘15 to sway him in the direction of the former .Dallas had in place an excellent offensive line. They drafted Zeke. They lucked out with Prescott, who isn’t great but fits the times . If DG thinks he can do this in one off-season, then finding 2 offensive linemen early in the draft and signing another as a free-agent priority would be the way for him to go. The defensive line returns. A less psychotic relationship with the corners will improve the secondary . If you believe all that, then retaining Eli, maybe praying for Webb, and trading down is the way you go. To me, that’s suicidal. Webb has been rendered a non-person because of the myopic way these idiots treated a 3-13 season. Eli is an old man who might be able to win in one or two fits, but his window is but for a year, maybe two. Maybe he will sleaze another as his brother did. I want the full re-do. Get the quarterback for the next era of Giants football. Start adding genuine building blocks necessary for sustained winning. Avoid going gonzo in free agency in the bi-polar , over-correction manner that was Reese’s style.

Well played, Sir!

doesn't that even give more credence to picking a QB this year?

We could easily be sitting somewhere between #7 - #15 next year and good luck getting a premium QB then...

In comment 13775923 RDJR said:

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Also, I’m not sure he gives us the best chance to win.

Since the HOF is based upon votes from writers in other cities, I do not think Eli will make it. We have to be honest with ourselves too. Eli has been the best Giants' QB but I don't know if that makes him a lock for the HOF. Being a part of two winning SB teams does not lock him in either IMO. He performed well in those two SB victories but his regular season career has been average. If Ben and Rivers get in then of course Eli should but I dont think any of them make it.

in the NFL if you don't have to. Keeping Eli does not keep them from drafting his successor.

That's keeping Eli.

At #2 is not at all based on what is best for the 2018 season. If it is, we made a huge mistake hiring Gettleman.

The decision to take a QB at #2 should be solely based on whether or not the Giants believe a QB there can become a franchise QB. If the answer is yes, you take them and worry about who starts in 2018 in training camp. If the answer if no, you pick the highest ranked player available and you prepare for Eli to start in 2018 and hope to find his replacement next year.

Making a decision on who to draft with the #2 pick based only on next year is foolish and short-sighted.

And Eli’s final stats and the name Manning and you guys think he’s not going to get in the HOF I need some of the stuff you guys are smoking....

the transition is in place and ready. There's nothing inherent that prevents drafting a QB at 2 (or lower) and mentoring that pick behind Manning until he's ready to take over. And you put the players on the field that give you the best chance to win.

In comment 13775978 clatterbuck said:

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the transition is in place and ready. There's nothing inherent that prevents drafting a QB at 2 (or lower) and mentoring that pick behind Manning until he's ready to take over.

The problem is that we heard Eli say that he does not want to be a mentor for a young QB. To be fair.. Eli is not making it easy either

"gotta look at the tape". What he likely will see is he MIGHT be able to squeeze 1 more year out of Eli. But having him play the Warner role will not be welcomed. I think whether Eli stays or goes depends on how he evaluates the QB class. If he has strong conviction on one I think he steers the ship in the direction of a full rebuild, gets someone in as a vet to start the season until the draft pick is ready. Don't think Webb factors in at all at this point. The draft will tell us a lot about what DG thinks about his roster. (Free agency too obviously). He has stated run the ball stop the run rush the passer. Plus he can count, he knows Eli's age.
So what he adds at QB, RB, OL, DL, and LB will tell us a lot about whether a "healthy" roster really did suck or it was coaching.
(For the record I thought the coaching was horrid).

In comment 13775989 EricJ said:

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In comment 13775978 clatterbuck said: Quote: the transition is in place and ready. There's nothing inherent that prevents drafting a QB at 2 (or lower) and mentoring that pick behind Manning until he's ready to take over. The problem is that we heard Eli say that he does not want to be a mentor for a young QB. To be fair.. Eli is not making it easy either

We actually didn't hear Manning he doesn't want to be a mentor. That was headline on a NY Post story not supported by the story itself. Manning said he still wants to play and believes he can still play at a high level. And as far as mentoring, ask Davis Webb about the help, guidance, and support he's received from Manning this year.

In comment 13775950 bc4life said:

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in the NFL if you don't have to. Keeping Eli does not keep them from drafting his successor.

Bullshit. That is 1995 level thinking. Rookie QBs start, and succeed in today's NFL. Draft a QB at 2, and let him and Webb compete to be the starter.

If Webb is the future, like many on here believe, than the Giants have already wasted a year of his dirt cheap contract by force feeding Manning, and his garbage play this year down our throats.

They have a chance to free up a ton of money by releasing Manning, and starting over. The chances of Manning leading this team to a Superbowl next year are outrageously slim. He has had this team in a steaming pile of shit since hurricane Sandy.

2016 was fun, but his play was extremely frustrating. That team won because their defense was dominant, we all know it. Maybe they will pass on a QB at 2, and it will be a mistake.

which he is, he needs to tell Eli he will be released and ask if he will accept a trade. Let Rosen compete for job with Webb and get on with it. It's not that complicated.

In comment 13776004 Dave on the UWS said:

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"gotta look at the tape". What he likely will see is he MIGHT be able to squeeze 1 more year out of Eli. But having him play the Warner role will not be welcomed. I think whether Eli stays or goes depends on how he evaluates the QB class. If he has strong conviction on one I think he steers the ship in the direction of a full rebuild, gets someone in as a vet to start the season until the draft pick is ready. Don't think Webb factors in at all at this point. The draft will tell us a lot about what DG thinks about his roster. (Free agency too obviously). He has stated run the ball stop the run rush the passer. Plus he can count, he knows Eli's age. So what he adds at QB, RB, OL, DL, and LB will tell us a lot about whether a "healthy" roster really did suck or it was coaching. (For the record I thought the coaching was horrid).

In the same breath, DG has said he is not opposed to making the hard decisions, and it’s better to get rid of a player a year earlier, rather then later.

So if we are sitting there saying we can squeeze 1 more year out of Eli, then he’s already past his expiration date in Getlemans eyes.

In comment 13775978 clatterbuck said:

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the transition is in place and ready. There's nothing inherent that prevents drafting a QB at 2 (or lower) and mentoring that pick behind Manning until he's ready to take over. And you put the players on the field that give you the best chance to win.

I was 99% certain Eli took his last Giants' snap one week ago. After hearing some new GM interviews I have backed off somewhat, but I still lean that Eli will be gone.

What you state here would be best for the Giants, but I think it is a fantasy. If Eli is on the roster with a QB picked two overall there will be a built in QB controversy on this team. Week one, when Eli overthrows someone in the first half, or God - forbid, throws a pick, half of NYC will scream for the new QB. The new HC, possibly in his first HC job and certainly in his first in the media capital, will be bombarded with question after question about when the shiny new QB will play.

Also, Eli thinks he can still play and frankly I agree with him. Why would he want to be in a QB controversy when he has been THE guy since High School. He will also be questioned endlessly through the season.

I hope very much Eli is still a Giant. Full disclosure is I put Eli pretty far down the list of reasons why this team sucks and I do think a quick turnaround to being competitive is more than possible.

I just do not see how the shiny new QB if picked second and Eli and a new HC can work in NYC. Reese's horrible vision for this team and the failure that was McAdoo killed the Eli era.

In comment 13775892 RetroJint said:

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Or trap, in my opinion. Does he view’18 as a quick turn-around opportunity ‘17 was the result of poor coaching and an inordinate amount of injuries, or does he see it (my view) as being a complete rebuild around, maybe, 8 returning core players . There is the recent example of the Cowboys in ‘15 to sway him in the direction of the former .Dallas had in place an excellent offensive line. They drafted Zeke. They lucked out with Prescott, who isn’t great but fits the times . If DG thinks he can do this in one off-season, then finding 2 offensive linemen early in the draft and signing another as a free-agent priority would be the way for him to go. The defensive line returns. A less psychotic relationship with the corners will improve the secondary . If you believe all that, then retaining Eli, maybe praying for Webb, and trading down is the way you go. To me, that’s suicidal. Webb has been rendered a non-person because of the myopic way these idiots treated a 3-13 season. Eli is an old man who might be able to win in one or two fits, but his window is but for a year, maybe two. Maybe he will sleaze another as his brother did. I want the full re-do. Get the quarterback for the next era of Giants football. Start adding genuine building blocks necessary for sustained winning. Avoid going gonzo in free agency in the bi-polar , over-correction manner that was Reese’s style.

Good post. That was very well put.

1) the is paid like he is an elite QB

2) he is far from an elite QB

3) re: 1 and 2, its a salary cap league so that salary/production gap is critically damaging

4) his presense blocks young QB development

5) he is the worst type of QB to have for this organization right now because its a bad OL and having a statue at QB obviously isn't ideal

Eli, if he's here, is the starter next year. Unless the year goes wrong. I also don't think it's a lock at all we take a qb

You play the QB that gives you the best chance to win, whether it's Eli, Webb, or a QB we draft/ sign as a FA.

It really is that simple.

All this sentimentality nonsense is just that, nonsense, and will cause more problems than it's worth.

from Eli" as some type of mystically, scientific equation. When there is someone better than him on the team, the player plays.

games next season and Eli has a good year, so what? you still need that next QB in 2-3 years anyway and this is the best time to grab him.

For the Giants to make it look like they are going to keep Eli even if they have to eat the 5 million dollars the art of deception is necessary especially this year and I would hold to that all the way up to draft day

In comment 13776162 MBavaro said:

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from Eli" as some type of mystically, scientific equation. When there is someone better than him on the team, the player plays.

Sounds good in theory. But how will you ever find out if someone else is better than Eli if they never play? It’s not like WR or RB where you can give the young guy some reps off the bench.