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I Want to Draft Saquon Barkley

RockSoldier72 : 1/7/2018 11:52 am
This kid out of Penn State is unbelievable. He's a generational talent I believe that we can't pass on him. To me the quarterbacks in this draft class are average nothing that blows me away. Saquon Barkley though on the other hand is a kid that can make game changing plays. He's a playmaker period. Why do we need to draft a QB when we drafted Davis Webb last year. Davis Webb is a waste of a draft pick to me, if we draft another QB in the 1st round this year. I say we give Eli two more years, while Davis Webb can learn from Eli and get to know the playbook and then he can be our QB for the future. While in the meantime Gettlemen rebuilds our team and makes us a playoff team with Barkley and hopefully other playmakers as well, and we will then be right back in business.
Barkley will make them just good enough  
Dave on the UWS : 1/7/2018 11:57 am : link
to go to QB hell like Gettleman explained. You have to avoid that at all costs.
I suppose we're in for another 4 months of this  
Peppers : 1/7/2018 11:57 am : link
Huh?




I'm cool with your Eli/Webb plan  
DennyInDenville : 1/7/2018 11:59 am : link
I see Webb as a future starter if groomed properly for 2 more years

Barkley? I'm down but I'm tempted to go defense.
QBs in this draft are far and away better prospects  
UberAlias : 1/7/2018 12:02 pm : link
Than Webb. Odds of Webb being quality long term answer are low. So much downplay of QBs all of the sudden. They’re better prospects than past few drafts.
RE: I suppose we're in for another 4 months of this  
Gman11 : 1/7/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13776164 Peppers said:
Quote:
Huh?


eeeeee-yup
RE: Barkley will make them just good enough  
Jay on the Island : 1/7/2018 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13776160 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
to go to QB hell like Gettleman explained. You have to avoid that at all costs.

I couldn’t agree more. I fear that if we take Barkley we will waste his prime years trying to find a QB. The Giants will likely be a 7-9 to 8-8 team that would have to trade a huge bounty to move up to get a QB. This is the best RB class in years so the Giants can get a good one in the 2nd or 3rd round. Gallman was a very pleasant surprise for me this year. He should be given a chance to split carries next season or at least be the 3rd down back.
Webb..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/7/2018 12:05 pm : link
was drafted by the previous regime, and likely was picked to be a backup anyway.

He wasn't even prepped to play this year. Think about that for a minute before thinking there are long term plans for him to be the starter.
I am a big Barkley fan and would love to see him in Blue  
larryflower37 : 1/7/2018 12:06 pm : link
But it does not make a lot of sense where this team is right now.

Like buying a convertible Corvette as your only car in Alaska.
Yes, you own a great car but it's not very functional is it?
Then you just go ahead  
Giant John : 1/7/2018 12:11 pm : link
And do that. LOL!
"Davis Webb is a waste of a draft pick to me"  
short lease : 1/7/2018 12:12 pm : link
Yeah, Reese was funny that way ....
Barkley  
Archer : 1/7/2018 12:12 pm : link
For those who love Barkley please explain to me why he disappears in games ?

Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry

There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad

In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact

He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking
Good to see people are starting to wake up  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/7/2018 12:14 pm : link
with all of the posts after OP.
RE: I am a big Barkley fan and would love to see him in Blue  
short lease : 1/7/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13776179 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
But it does not make a lot of sense where this team is right now.

Like buying a convertible Corvette as your only car in Alaska.
Yes, you own a great car but it's not very functional is it?


Convertible or hard top corvette? I like your analogy Larry ... and agree with it. ; )
RE: Webb..  
lax counsel : 1/7/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13776178 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
was drafted by the previous regime, and likely was picked to be a backup anyway.

He wasn't even prepped to play this year. Think about that for a minute before thinking there are long term plans for him to be the starter.


Exactly. Glad to see there are posters who realize what Webb is and his capabilities. For those touting his ability, go watch his 2016 full length game videos. You will walk away surprised he was even a starting qb in college.


I agree with poster that there are enough running backs to get a quality one in rounds 2-4. Barkley would be a good pick if the qb of the future was already on the roster. He's not. Take advantage of drafting second with two high end qb prospects on the board.

Also, for those of you saying "well, we can just get a qb when Eli retires," how simple is that task? If it was that simple, wouldn't every team just do it and never have a qb issue? Like every single team doesn't know that Fromm from GA will be a top 2020 prospect and we can just sneak in and take him.
Huh??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/7/2018 12:16 pm : link
Quote:
He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking


Herschel Walker was a damn good player with or without blocking. Not really sure how he's the poster boy of needing decent blocking to be good.
Everyone knows the draft is more than 1 round right?  
bLiTz 2k : 1/7/2018 12:19 pm : link
Having the #2 pick is not only beneficial in the 1st, but it puts the Giants in a great position to infuse talent during the entire draft.

I think fans sometimes forget that, maybe being jaded by how bad the Giant's mid to late round picks have been by the previous regime...but theres a new sherrif in town and rounds 2,3 and even later are equally important for the long haul rebuild.

The Giants should not be, (I dont think they are), looking at the #2 overall pick as a "MUST GET THIS POSITION" (incl. QB).
I think  
OBJXIII : 1/7/2018 12:29 pm : link
We should ask Eli to stay one more year but no promises beyond that. Draft a QB and keep Webb.

That way we take a page out of the patriots book when they had Brady garoppolo and brissett. Worst case the extra QBs can be flipped for picks or players.

Let the two develop behind Eli and if Eli decides that he wants to retire after this year or if he doesn't want to be on the team with another QB, then we try to trade him.
RE: Barkley  
Stan in LA : 1/7/2018 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13776189 Archer said:
Quote:
For those who love Barkley please explain to me why he disappears in games ?

Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry

There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad

In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact.

He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking

Yup.
Lax Council  
JerseyCityJoe : 1/7/2018 12:33 pm : link
Quote:
I agree with poster that there are enough running backs to get a quality one in rounds 2-4. Barkley would be a good pick if the qb of the future was already on the roster. He's not. Take advantage of drafting second with two high end qb prospects on the board.


Exactly
The idea that if the Giants don't go QB at #2  
Glover : 1/7/2018 12:33 pm : link
They will be in QB hell forever is total bullshit,.
Just look at the NFC, I don't have time to look at both conferences. Cousins and Dak, 4th rounders. Not gonna carry a team alone, but competent NFL QBs. Lions and Bears took QBs at 1 and 2, but the Vikings look pretty dam good with an untreated journeyman and we all know the story with Rodgers.

If the Giants are not 100% these QBs are bona fide franchise QB status AND they believe Barkley would be a big time difference maker, then they absolutely should draft him.
Walker  
Archer : 1/7/2018 12:36 pm : link
The Walker comparison was not a negative
Hershel was a great player however he was most successful behind a great line

I was comparing their physical attributes and running styles

My question still remains why does such a great prospect such as Barkley disappear in games ?

Look at the Rutgers, OSU , and Indiana games

Undrafted  
Glover : 1/7/2018 12:37 pm : link
.
Rutgers Stopped Barkley  
Samiam : 1/7/2018 12:38 pm : link
Not to be confused with Alabama, a very ordinary Rutgers defense stopped Barkley. You're going to draft that guy with the #2 pick? And, before you rebuild the OL?
Me  
charlito : 1/7/2018 12:42 pm : link
As well.These quarterbacks aren't worthy of the 2nd pick.
Barkley, Darnold or trade back for  
est1986 : 1/7/2018 12:45 pm : link
a future first and a pick this year that can still get you a Nelson, Chubbor some other highly thought of prospect.
To bad your not a GM  
David B. : 1/7/2018 12:47 pm : link
Something to think about:

Curtis Enis, RB, PSU, No. 5 overall pick in 1998
Ki-Jana Carter, RB, PSU, No. 1 overall pick in 1995
Blair Thomas, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1990
D.J. Dozier, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1987
RE: Barkley  
HomerJones45 : 1/7/2018 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13776189 Archer said:
Quote:
For those who love Barkley please explain to me why he disappears in games ?

Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry

There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad

In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact

He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking
Give us a break. Walker was a great college runner and did not disappear in games. He carried Georgia on his back.

Barkley is not a "generational talent". He's another beneficiary of Happy Valley hype, some poor team is going to buy the hype and end up with Duke Johnson. No thank you.
RE: Walker  
Tanker20 : 1/7/2018 1:04 pm : link
Do not worry about Barkley’s games he “dissappeared”.

As a PSU fan I’ve watched nearly every one of his carries/games. He had poor games mostly due to defenses completely selling out to stop him. Nearly all of Penn State runs since two years ago (hackenberg departure, Joe Moorehead arrival) are option or zone read runs where the QB (McSorley) makes the decision on whether to hand off or not. So many times this year defenses had been instructed to sell out on Barkley, that is, at the threat of any option handoff, just tackle/attack Barkley. They gave no respect to McSorley keeping it and running (this was a risk/reward strategy and often Penn state would punish those that did this, just look at the total points they scored in Barkley’s down games, it’s still high).

Anyway, due to this Barkley would have many very negative yardage runs which hurt is YPC or overall yards. McSorley never really did master when to hand off and when to run resulting in easily negative plays.

Anyway, I can assure you that Barkley is worthy of the praise he gets. Just watch some his games and you’ll see. I actually believe he’ll look even better in the pros in part of a pro style offense where he gets a running lead - his one year in a pro style offense he looked awesome as well and without all the negative runs where he got hit flat footed at the mesh point.

And btw, even as a huge Barkley fan, I’m completely in the camp of drafting a QB. Giants need to draft a QB and I’m confident they will.
RE: To bad your not a GM  
Tanker20 : 1/7/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13776248 David B. said:
Quote:
Something to think about:

Curtis Enis, RB, PSU, No. 5 overall pick in 1998
Ki-Jana Carter, RB, PSU, No. 1 overall pick in 1995
Blair Thomas, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1990
D.J. Dozier, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1987


It would really silly for any GM to not take a player based on any prior draft “bust” who didn’t even share the same coaching staff. May as well draft based on superstition.

Matt Leinart was a bust, should we avoid Darnold?
Adrien Peterson,  
Simms11 : 1/7/2018 1:20 pm : link
arguably the best RB drafted his year and a supposed generational talent. How did that work out for the Vikes? You need a QB in this league first and foremost. Once we have those pieces in place,you could then consider a RB that high. There's plenty of very good RBs that could be had in the 3rd or 4th. It's a good draft for RBs too. You can't take one thst high IMO
You have perfectly explained the teriribleness of this plan  
twostepgiants : 1/7/2018 1:21 pm : link
If you proceed as you explain. We have a star in Barlkley and a rebuilt Giants team ready to contend in 2 seasons. Eli will be finished. Webb is ready to play.

In that scenario, we have a house of cards built entirely around Davis Webb.

Maybe he is great. Maybe he is terrible. Most likely he is somewhere in the middle. Maybe good, maybe bad. And guess what? You have exactly 1 season to decide as his contract is up after 4 seasons, 3 of which you sat him on the bench.

You are a playoff/borderline team as you said, in need of a QB so you are stuck in the late teens/early 20s. Tough to get a QB there who is a sure thing.

So you may be stuck thinking about committing huge money to Webb when you are uncertain or having to draft a mid-to-late round QB or sign whatever guy is available on the free agent market (the Cousins of 2020) to crazy deal.

This is what Gettleman called QB hell.
....  
Vin_Cuccs : 1/7/2018 1:21 pm : link
I'm against Barkley. I love him as a player; great talent, but have to have to have to get a quarterback. First time in 35 years they've had to pick this high. They have to take advantage of it.


One thing that scares me the most, is a running back is one clean hit away from never playing again. That's not as true with quarterbacks. The quarterback is the more important position, and there's more and more rules in place to protect the quarterback. Not as much for the running back.

Paul Schwartz with a good point in the RB position in the draft:

Ronald Jones II is an absolute monster and his decision to turn pro adds more star power to perhaps the best running back class in 20-plus years:
Jones
Derrius Guice
Bryce Love
Nick Chubb
Sony Michel
Josh Adams
Royce Freeman
Akrum Wadley
Myles Gaskin
Kerryon Johnson
Rashad Penny


Very good value in later rounds for RB's.
RE: Barkley  
Brick72 : 1/7/2018 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13776189 Archer said:
Quote:
For those who love Barkley please explain to me why he disappears in games ?

Last year he had (7) games where he accumulated less than 77 yards rushing
He had games where he looked out of sync
Rutgers (35) ,OSU, (44) , Indiana (55) , etc .
He ran at 2 yards per carry

There are games where he looks great and others where he looks not just ordinary , but bad

In the games where he did not play well it appeared that he went down at initial contact

He reminded me of Hershel Walker
Great with great blocking

Strange cherry picking post. You could make similar claims for every single RB in creation. No one has wonderful games every game. There are a lot of factors. Cherry pick all you want but Barkley is a special talent. Whether he's the right pick for the Giants right now is another issue.
You take BPA  
RobCarpenter : 1/7/2018 1:23 pm : link
And that’s Barkley. Rosen’s concussions scare me, and I’m not sold on D’Arnold.

Barkley was big ten offensive player of the year each of the last two years. He’s a fantastic receiver, has tremendous agility, and a fantastic runner.

Gettleman made the ‘QB hell’ comment but he also talked about the importance of running the ball. Barkley would be a massive upgrade at the RB position.

not sold on either QB  
Simms : 1/7/2018 1:25 pm : link
Would rather draft BPA on DE, or trade down get an extra pick and grab two OL. Think we can get an up grade on QB other than Davis in this draft in later rounds.

There is talent in other places, you just have to find it, groom it, and build.
Everyone expects a the new guy through the door to be the answer, as its a lock.

If it was that easy anyone could be a GM. Recall how so many were divided over Luck and Payton Manning. Whoever we pick hope he is a solid productive player.
Thanks for the explaintion  
Archer : 1/7/2018 1:27 pm : link
I think that it is possible that Barkley underachieved due to defenses keying on him and McSorley’s inability to sell the option

However, if you look at other great running backs despite being the focal point of an offense they were able to get their yards

For example ZekeElliot had only one poor game in his senior season (33) yards against a tough Michigan State Defense
The rest of the games he was above (106)yards

Barkley had (7) games his senior season that were average at best



RE: ....  
Brick72 : 1/7/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13776306 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
I'm against Barkley. I love him as a player; great talent, but have to have to have to get a quarterback. First time in 35 years they've had to pick this high. They have to take advantage of it.

One thing that scares me the most, is a running back is one clean hit away from never playing again. That's not as true with quarterbacks. The quarterback is the more important position, and there's more and more rules in place to protect the quarterback. Not as much for the running back.

Paul Schwartz with a good point in the RB position in the draft:

Ronald Jones II is an absolute monster and his decision to turn pro adds more star power to perhaps the best running back class in 20-plus years:
Jones
Derrius Guice
Bryce Love
Nick Chubb
Sony Michel
Josh Adams
Royce Freeman
Akrum Wadley
Myles Gaskin
Kerryon Johnson
Rashad Penny

Very good value in later rounds for RB's.

Jones II had insane blocking. Watch his highlights. The Giants will be rebuilding their OL, so at best he wouldn't have blocking like that for a couple of years. Also, you and I both know his upright running style won't last long in the NFL as a running back. He can get away with it on returns but as an every down back he'll end up injured. Like you said, one clean hit and he's gone. Just sayin'.
RE: Thanks for the explaintion  
Tanker20 : 1/7/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13776316 Archer said:
Quote:
I think that it is possible that Barkley underachieved due to defenses keying on him and McSorley’s inability to sell the option

However, if you look at other great running backs despite being the focal point of an offense they were able to get their yards

For example ZekeElliot had only one poor game in his senior season (33) yards against a tough Michigan State Defense
The rest of the games he was above (106)yards

Barkley had (7) games his senior season that were average at best




Zeke was also playing behind an excellent offensive line, getting 30 carries a game, and had a QB (Barrett or Miller) who was infinitely better at the running the option/zone read runs (no defense could sell out against zeke or the QB runs would destroy them)

Anyway, pretty sure all of penn states games the last few years are on YouTube and have 30 minute versions, just go check out a few of them and you can judge :)
RE: To bad your not a GM  
gtt350 : 1/7/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13776248 David B. said:
Quote:
Something to think about:

Curtis Enis, RB, PSU, No. 5 overall pick in 1998
Ki-Jana Carter, RB, PSU, No. 1 overall pick in 1995
Blair Thomas, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1990
D.J. Dozier, RB, PSU, No. 2 overall pick in 1987


that is truly painful, point well taken
if Barkley is as good as advertised  
santacruzom : 1/7/2018 1:52 pm : link
I've got no issue drafting him second. But, I definitely doubt the Giants wouldn't use the selection of Webb with last year's third as a reason not to take a QB. That's just not smart thinking.
There is plenty of time left  
joeinpa : 1/7/2018 2:57 pm : link
To evaluate these quarterbacks. If Giants deem one is the next franchise guy they will take him.

I know the speculation about the different options at draft time are fun.

But Giants passing on a quarterback whom they believe is their future would be an all time blunder. K
________  
I am Ninja : 1/7/2018 3:28 pm : link
its not 1993 anymore. rbs shelf lives dont justify no 2 overall pick.
RE: if Barkley is as good as advertised  
santacruzom : 1/7/2018 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13776379 santacruzom said:
Quote:
I've got no issue drafting him second. But, I definitely doubt the Giants wouldn't use the selection of Webb with last year's third as a reason not to take a QB. That's just not smart thinking.


Er, doubt they would use
RE: Thanks for the explaintion  
Ira : 1/7/2018 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13776316 Archer said:
Quote:
I think that it is possible that Barkley underachieved due to defenses keying on him and McSorley’s inability to sell the option

However, if you look at other great running backs despite being the focal point of an offense they were able to get their yards

For example ZekeElliot had only one poor game in his senior season (33) yards against a tough Michigan State Defense
The rest of the games he was above (106)yards

Barkley had (7) games his senior season that were average at best




Elliott played behind a much better o-line than Barkley.
RE: Everyone knows the draft is more than 1 round right?  
DonnieD89 : 1/7/2018 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13776206 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
Having the #2 pick is not only beneficial in the 1st, but it puts the Giants in a great position to infuse talent during the entire draft.

I think fans sometimes forget that, maybe being jaded by how bad the Giant's mid to late round picks have been by the previous regime...but theres a new sherrif in town and rounds 2,3 and even later are equally important for the long haul rebuild.

The Giants should not be, (I dont think they are), looking at the #2 overall pick as a "MUST GET THIS POSITION" (incl. QB).


Amen. Only the Giants staff can make that desision whether these QBs are worthy of the #2. Just because you are having a cook out, doesn’t mean you need to buy rancid beef patties for burgers when you can get other foods. People need to be open minded about every position. Take best player available if these QBs aren’t worth it.
Yes to Barkley  
joebulldog : 1/7/2018 7:21 pm : link
I am torn between a QB and Barkley, but I want Barkley. When you look at Gurley and Ezekiel Elliott on how much better their offense was when they played, a top-notch RB makes the OL and QB look so much better. When Elliott went out on suspension Dallas tanked with a great offensive line and nice young QB. Elliott helped the defense stay more rested and made Dallas a premiere team before he went out. Of course when he came back he was not in top form. I think Barkley is as good as Elliott, and can make our average offensive line look good and take the pressure off Eli and our receivers.
RE: Yes to Barkley  
joebulldog : 1/7/2018 7:58 pm : link
In comment 13777096 joebulldog said:
Quote:
I am torn between a QB and Barkley, but I want Barkley. When you look at Gurley and Ezekiel Elliott on how much better their offense was when they played, a top-notch RB makes the OL and QB look so much better. When Elliott went out on suspension Dallas tanked with a great offensive line and nice young QB. Elliott helped the defense stay more rested and made Dallas a premiere team before he went out. Of course when he came back he was not in top form. I think Barkley is as good as Elliott, and can make our average offensive line look good and take the pressure off Eli and our receivers.

p.s. Mel Kiper still has Barkley rated number 1 on his board with comment:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. *Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State

Previous rank: 1

Barkley is a lights-out athlete with tremendous balance, a great lower body and quick feet. He had 1,728 yards from scrimmage and 19 total touchdowns in the regular season, and he rushed for 1,496 yards and 18 touchdowns last season and 1,076 yards as a freshman. Barkley (5-foot-11, 230 pounds) also will help in the passing game. He had 47 catches this season after having 48 in his first two seasons at Penn State combined. I think he'll run under a 4.4 40-yard dash and test well at the combine. Barkley could be a top-five pick in 2018, and he's going to get an elite grade from me
Barkley's absence perhaps tied to  
STLGiant : 1/8/2018 1:35 am : link
his inexperienced OL?

When you consider Barkley's OL consists of the following players this season, does your opinion of him change?

LT-Will Fries RS-Freshman 4*
LG-Steve Gonzales RS-Soph 4*
OC-Connor McGovern Soph. 4*
RG-Brendan Mahon RS-Senior 4*
RT-Chaz Wright RS-Junior. 4*

Three guys from NJ, all 4* recruits coming out of high school. Barkley's ability is quite good with an inexperienced OL...whereas other backs in the Draft have many more upperclassmen...then again Penn State's opponents weren't that great (sic).

Barkley cannot be compared to other RBs in this class that have FAR greater talent on their OLs. Running, catching and blocking...the guy is an immediate impact player AND he is a Jr., so his legs are going to have one less season of wear & tear. Hell, we don't even know how good Webb is or isn't...and we've seen how good the USC, UCLA and OK products did in big games over New Year's. JS...
By April  
JonC : 1/8/2018 7:23 am : link
I think it will be apparent the best player(s) and value(s) will be at QB.
RE: Barkley will make them just good enough  
Brown Recluse : 1/8/2018 7:30 am : link
In comment 13776160 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
to go to QB hell like Gettleman explained. You have to avoid that at all costs.


I think QB hell is much more likely drafting a QB that isn't a franchise player.
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