Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NFT: The EMP Threat..

DC Gmen Fan : 1/7/2018 12:33 pm
I just finished 2 book series, and bother were excellent, especially if you like post-apocalyptic type scenarios.

"One Second After", followed by "One Year After" and "Final Day" by William Forstchen and the survivalist Series "Going Home" by A. American.

Both were post-EMP America novels and both were scary as hell in their descriptions of the breakdown of American society.

For those who know more about EMP threats, are the books and the things you read accurate or way overblown? Could 1 nuke exploded 300 miles above the US launched from a container ship in the gulf really end civilization?
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
The Amish  
spike : 1/7/2018 2:26 pm : link
would take over the world
RE: RE: A  
spike : 1/7/2018 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13776437 Cam in MO said:
Quote:
In comment 13776326 AcidTest said:


Quote:


strong enough EMP will definitely destroy the electrical systems in modern cars. But even older cars won't work, at least not for long, because electricity is needed to pump gas.

The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies.

Chaos would reign. We are totally dependent on our technology. A Carrington Event could literally send us back to what society was like before electricity.



Silly. Most teenagers know how to siphon with a hose.

People are dumb, but in general are good and take care of one another- it's part of who we are as a species- it's one of our most effective survival strategies.


Looting and crime would occur. See the recent hurricanes aftermath.
Combating hysteria..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/7/2018 2:29 pm : link
would be the biggest hurdle. In a mass event though, people band together. The Puerto Rico example is a good one.

Part of the Doomsday Effect is controlling the hysterics. Just like in this thread when a poster assumes millions will die because the grid goes down.
Sure crime would definitely increase.  
Cam in MO : 1/7/2018 2:39 pm : link
I just think it is extremely unrealistic to think that society would completely break down. Let's give ourselves a little credit. In even the most archaic times, stealing and murder were never "ok" anywhere- excepting for religious purposes (human sacrifice- witch overall was extremely limited and usually reserved for enemies of the state) and war.


The other thing to consider when it comes to killing for resources,  
Cam in MO : 1/7/2018 2:45 pm : link
is that on a large scale, it's one tribe competing against another.

As the population has grown and communication has shrunk the world, our "tribe" now consists of 350+ million. Sure on a smaller scale within the country there may be less cooperation and more crime between races and possibly even cities or states (although the latter is a bit more difficult to imagine- most folks define themselves as American well before New Yorker) but overall- folks will want to keep their American tribe safe and fed.
Sorry- mean even on small scale, historically it's been one tribe  
Cam in MO : 1/7/2018 2:46 pm : link
competing with another.
I'm  
AcidTest : 1/7/2018 2:57 pm : link
not going to criticize people for being optimistic and having faith in humanity. I will simply say that you have much more of that than I do, especially if the lights go out for an extended period of time.
RE: Combating hysteria..  
jtfuoco : 1/7/2018 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13776473 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
would be the biggest hurdle. In a mass event though, people band together. The Puerto Rico example is a good one.

Part of the Doomsday Effect is controlling the hysterics. Just like in this thread when a poster assumes millions will die because the grid goes down.


How do you combat hysteria when you have no way to communicate to anybody outside of your own neighborhood. Puerto Rico is a bad example you have a population of 3.5 million people without just power but isolated on one island receiving support and assistance from America. Now lets compare that with a population 250+ million who knows how many square miles not counting Canada and Mexico that will likely feel the result as well.
Read the book One Second After first  
DC Gmen Fan : 1/7/2018 3:13 pm : link
then you will understand how shit breaks down.
I saw  
jtfuoco : 1/7/2018 3:15 pm : link
First hand what Americans are like during catastrophe at the Superdome during hurricane Katrina and that was just one city make that nation wide and see what happens.
Dude..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/7/2018 3:18 pm : link
you said millions of Americans would die.

Quote:
I saw
jtfuoco : 3:15 pm : link : reply
First hand what Americans are like during catastrophe at the Superdome during hurricane Katrina and that was just one city make that nation wide and see what happens.


Even in the shitshow in New Orleans, people in the Superdome didn't die.

And if you went to Mississippi and Alabama in the aftermath of Katrina, you'd have seen communities pull together - instead, you choose one part of New Orleans, and it doesn't even support the view that millions would die.
RE: I saw  
AcidTest : 1/7/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13776568 jtfuoco said:
Quote:
First hand what Americans are like during catastrophe at the Superdome during hurricane Katrina and that was just one city make that nation wide and see what happens.


Agreed.
Katrina  
AcidTest : 1/7/2018 3:28 pm : link
and Puerto Rico were local, not national disasters. Because of that, help could come from those areas of the country that were unaffected.

But an EMP would be a national disaster, including a wrecked power grid that might not be repaired for a year or more. Nothing is comparable. There is no precedent.
The problem is  
DC Gmen Fan : 1/7/2018 3:29 pm : link
when supplies and food run short, humans will likely revert to survival instincts and that is to get food at any price esp for their family.

Now also, consider you are a prepper. You are now a target since you have the food and supplies. And what if the government then mandated that those who prepped now must share with everyone else?

I think the loss of supermarkets  
widmerseyebrow : 1/7/2018 3:52 pm : link
coupled with the loss of transportation would devastate many parts of the country. Not having food has little to do with whether you think people are innately good or bad.
RE: I'm  
Cam in MO : 1/7/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13776531 AcidTest said:
Quote:
not going to criticize people for being optimistic and having faith in humanity. I will simply say that you have much more of that than I do, especially if the lights go out for an extended period of time.


Fair enough. I will point out that other than faction, the only thing we have to go by is history- recent natural disasters. They paint a much more optimistic outcome than does fiction.
Interesting thread  
I love liverwurst : 1/7/2018 4:16 pm : link
I try to look at things as logically and open minded as possible. In my humble opinion this is what happens;

1.The cities will be utter chaos, food will run out and water will be difficult to access. Murder and rape will be rampant

2.Police will ban together and take from people that have resources, remember, the police are allowed to have Ar-15's, at least in my state we're not able to have them. Think the Second Amendment is important?

3. Armed gangs from the cities will make it to the burbs, they will try and steal from people they believe have food and supplies. Rape/murder/chaos will be rampant. The people who are armed will ban together and fight off many of the attacks, they will win some and they will lose some

4..Some people will make it to Fema camps for food and water. Fema camps are under Government control, disease would break out, millions more would be lost. People go to Fema camps to die

5.Some from the burbs will be able to grow their own food, use hand pumps from existing wells to get water. If they're smart enough develop stock piles of food and ammunition. Burn wood for heat

Most people today grow impatient if they have to wait a couple of weeks for their I-Phones. They can't handle it

Be smart, be vigilant..Store up on a year or 2 worth of dehydrated/freeze dried foods. Stock up on ammo

Sounds outlandish, however, it's realistic. It will be utter chaos with different groups merging together to fight for resources. In general, it will be a fight for survival on many different fronts

RE: Interesting thread  
DC Gmen Fan : 1/7/2018 4:48 pm : link
In comment 13776706 I love liverwurst said:
Quote:
I try to look at things as logically and open minded as possible. In my humble opinion this is what happens;

5.Some from the burbs will be able to grow their own food, use hand pumps from existing wells to get water. If they're smart enough develop stock piles of food and ammunition. Burn wood for heat




They will also become targets for the marauding gangs.
RE: RE: Interesting thread  
I love liverwurst : 1/7/2018 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13776790 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 13776706 I love liverwurst said:


Quote:


I try to look at things as logically and open minded as possible. In my humble opinion this is what happens;

5.Some from the burbs will be able to grow their own food, use hand pumps from existing wells to get water. If they're smart enough develop stock piles of food and ammunition. Burn wood for heat






They will also become targets for the marauding gangs.



That's why it would make sense to have lots of high powered guns with ammo on hand
Then of course you are assuming you're home  
DC Gmen Fan : 1/7/2018 5:06 pm : link
and not traveling...
Great Sources for Space Weather News  
JohnF : 1/7/2018 5:15 pm : link
Which would include Solar Activity (EMP) are:

Daily: Youtube: Suspicious Observers Channel

Website: SuspiciousObservers.org

Apps (Google and Apple) for SpaceWeather: SpaceWeatherNews.com
RE: Don't forget the crime  
rebel yell : 1/7/2018 6:28 pm : link
In comment 13776301 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
looting, killing people for their food/supplies, lack of medications, etc.

Another reason why I cherish my "right to bear arms."
RE: A  
TheGhostofBlueGuy : 1/8/2018 4:02 am : link
In comment 13776326 AcidTest said:
Quote:
strong enough EMP will definitely destroy the electrical systems in modern cars. But even older cars won't work, at least not for long, because electricity is needed to pump gas.

The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies.

Chaos would reign. We are totally dependent on our technology. A Carrington Event could literally send us back to what society was like before electricity.


"The average supermarket has two weeks worth of supplies."

That is a lie. If you believe that, you will amongst the first to starve, then die. Please don't regurgitate that gov't puke.
RE: Combating hysteria..  
SomeFan : 1/8/2018 5:11 am : link
In comment 13776473 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
would be the biggest hurdle. In a mass event though, people band together. The Puerto Rico example is a good one.

Part of the Doomsday Effect is controlling the hysterics. Just like in this thread when a poster assumes millions will die because the grid goes down.


Agree
So  
SomeFan : 1/8/2018 5:17 am : link
What can we do with the grid, cars, etc. to prevent the damage when the EMP happens?
There's a faulty..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/8/2018 8:22 am : link
assumption in these scenarios that is based on the fictional works. Basically, that society as we know it will dissolve and anarchy will reign.

There's always comments that murder and rape will become rampant, but there really isn't any logic bearing that out. A regular person doesn't become a killer and rapist just because stresses are placed on him. As a people, we are thinkers and would band together to help out as much as possible.

That's not to say everyone is going to be benevolent, but just because daily life is disrupted doesn't mean people just start maiming, killing and fucking everyone.
The Walking Dead isabout exactly this  
spike : 1/8/2018 10:42 am : link
Minus the zombies, but it is about the behavior of people when supplies and law & orders are lacking.
DC Gmen  
jtfuoco : 1/8/2018 10:44 am : link
I grabbed the audio book last night and listen to the first few chapters on my drive in so its great thanks for the recommendation.
RE: There's a faulty..  
I love liverwurst : 1/8/2018 10:50 am : link
In comment 13777653 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
assumption in these scenarios that is based on the fictional works. Basically, that society as we know it will dissolve and anarchy will reign.

There's always comments that murder and rape will become rampant, but there really isn't any logic bearing that out. A regular person doesn't become a killer and rapist just because stresses are placed on him. As a people, we are thinkers and would band together to help out as much as possible.

That's not to say everyone is going to be benevolent, but just because daily life is disrupted doesn't mean people just start maiming, killing and fucking everyone.


What do you think happened with Hurricane Katrina? New Orleans is a prime example to refute what you just said
People started..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/8/2018 10:52 am : link
maiming, murdering and raping people all over New Orleans?? Huh?

Also, why does everyone fixate on New Orleans when discussing Katrina? The entire Gulf Coast was affected and communities in alabama and Mississippi pulled together to care for one another and rebuild.
RE: The Walking Dead isabout exactly this  
jtfuoco : 1/8/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 13777925 spike said:
Quote:
Minus the zombies, but it is about the behavior of people when supplies and law & orders are lacking.


Like so many here have stated before our entire society is based on supplies being moved long distances by line haul truck. Once that is cut off many locations will just not be livable anymore in the numbers of people that exist there today.

Look at Florida you have a huge population that is almost entirely dependent on goods being shipped in. Throw in a un naturally huge elderly population that wont have access to medicine the die off will start quickly and with bodies stacking up then the diseases will come compiling the issue. I am not saying Americans naturally want to kill or rape my point was a EMP event will cost millions of Americans life's it wont happen overnight but it will happen as a result. Think of it like this it has taken decades to establish the flow of logistics and life support to maintain multi million populations in small condense areas like you find in our Major cities now flip off access to that life support overnight it wont be just a disturbance but a disaster that has never been witness before.

Now lets look at a region the entire southwest is fed water from only a few sources located hundreds of miles away but without the grid the water stops you have a population of several million living in an area that can naturally only support a few thousand with the resources on hand. the average person can only go 3 days without water imagine how desperate that situation will be after just a week. These are just a few examples you will find these types of issues in almost every part of America you go to.
We talk about past natural disasters about people coming together and yes it has happen but think about this in those events most of us have been sitting and watching the events unfold in our living room and donating money food and clothing however during a EMP event you will never know what is happening you may not even know its an attack since you wont hear official news for weeks maybe months and possibly even a year later in some areas.
RE: People started..  
I love liverwurst : 1/8/2018 6:09 pm : link
In comment 13777949 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
maiming, murdering and raping people all over New Orleans?? Huh?

Also, why does everyone fixate on New Orleans when discussing Katrina? The entire Gulf Coast was affected and communities in alabama and Mississippi pulled together to care for one another and rebuild.


Not sure what else I can do but supply you with somewhat of a logic/fact based argument. All you need to do is "Bing it" You can see for yourself

Keep in mind, these people were getting supplies and medicine in short order and they knew it. Like the poster above mentioned, chances are no one is going to know what the heck is going on and won't for a long amount of time. Just imagine when 3 days goes by with no water/food, communication or not knowing when, if ever it's on it's way?

It will be a lawless living hell and yes, people will turn on each other
Man, liverwurst seems to blow pot away  
Mad Mike : 1/8/2018 6:15 pm : link
in promoting gullibility and paranoia.
RE: Man, liverwurst seems to blow pot away  
I love liverwurst : 1/8/2018 6:21 pm : link
In comment 13778795 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
in promoting gullibility and paranoia.



Yeah sure, whatever you say
Well..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/8/2018 7:46 pm : link
the Superdome sure turned out to be a bastion of murder and mayhem!!

Quote:
At one point FEMA sent a refrigerated 18-wheeler to pick up what a colonel in the National Guard expected to be 200 bodies in New Orleans's Superdome, only to find six, including four who died naturally and a suicide.


Again - New Orleans was just one city affected by Katrina and the one most people reference when the entire Gulf Coast was destroyed. Heck, Gulfport lost blocks of homes that today are still bare patches.

People came together. People helped out. Your scenario of murder, rape and mayhem simply didn't happen on some sort of wide scale, no matter how many times you keep trying to say it did.
The devastation of Katrina  
fkap : 1/8/2018 11:03 pm : link
did not include a complete blackout of news. It did include a nation rushing in to help. Those two things change a lot.

it's not an either/or situation. people will band together to help each other out. people will also look to take from them.

a single, limited region suffering a catastrophe is one thing. a large scale catastrophic power/transportation/electronic device outage across a large portion of the country is quite another.

there will be mass starvation when the food production and transportation system suddenly gets a massive jolt and slowdown if not downright cessation of corporate farming. People can start small scale farming, but where are all the seeds for planting going to come from? Most urban dwellers don't know much about animal husbandry, or horticulture. What are people going to eat while waiting for the first harvest?

Don't kid yourself, a national wipeout of electronics is going to be a huge disaster bringing out the worst and the best of humanity. Even if the best takes the upper hand, there will still be a lot of death and mayhem and the worst will make a massive showing.
How long would  
SomeFan : 1/9/2018 5:22 am : link
it take for youporn to be back up and running? More than 3 days?
...  
christian : 1/9/2018 7:10 am : link
FMiC survives 2 days tops.
Canít the effects be planned for?  
SomeFan : 1/9/2018 7:46 am : link
This would appear to be more of a danger than global warming.
I plan for it the same way  
fkap : 1/9/2018 8:07 am : link
I planned for Y2K: rifle and ammo. I can present a credible deterrent for minor/intermediate threats, and have enough firepower to take from those who don't think the populace should have guns.

the beauty of this plan is that it works for a variety of catastrophes.

In all seriousness, people should have an emergency kit that would cover a lot of scenarios, but most, including myself, don't. Gov'ts large and small have plans for a variety of situations, but it's cost/manpower prohibitive to run drills on all of them, so they tend to collect dust. it's likely that there'll be some snafu getting gov't/relief services functioning.

You can plan for any given disaster scenario, but it's costly, and if you're going to plan for all of them, prepare to spend most of your money on contingencies that may never happen.
RE: I plan for it the same way  
SomeFan : 1/9/2018 8:21 am : link
In comment 13779674 fkap said:
Quote:
I planned for Y2K: rifle and ammo. I can present a credible deterrent for minor/intermediate threats, and have enough firepower to take from those who don't think the populace should have guns.

the beauty of this plan is that it works for a variety of catastrophes.

In all seriousness, people should have an emergency kit that would cover a lot of scenarios, but most, including myself, don't. Gov'ts large and small have plans for a variety of situations, but it's cost/manpower prohibitive to run drills on all of them, so they tend to collect dust. it's likely that there'll be some snafu getting gov't/relief services functioning.

You can plan for any given disaster scenario, but it's costly, and if you're going to plan for all of them, prepare to spend most of your money on contingencies that may never happen.


Fkap, that is good advice but I am really talking about preventing the effects of the EMP through science. Is it as simple as insulating important circuitry and electronics or setting up a fallback energy source like localized nuclear decay energy?
RE: Katrina  
section125 : 1/9/2018 8:25 am : link
In comment 13776595 AcidTest said:
Quote:
and Puerto Rico were local, not national disasters. Because of that, help could come from those areas of the country that were unaffected.

But an EMP would be a national disaster, including a wrecked power grid that might not be repaired for a year or more. Nothing is comparable. There is no precedent.


National disaster? Are we talking a 100 megaton bomb or a ship launched less then 100 kiloton bomb.

I'm talking out my ass, but I don't think the kind of scenario you are talking about happens unless there are some major nukes going off in several places.
SomeFan  
fkap : 1/9/2018 8:43 am : link
steps can be taken to protect circuitry, but as I attempted to say, it comes at a cost.
RE: Canít the effects be planned for?  
jtfuoco : 1/9/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 13779661 SomeFan said:
Quote:
This would appear to be more of a danger than global warming.


You can harden electronics and upgrade the power grids to mitigate the damage but at a cost of billions of dollars. Several people have gone before congress to lay out the potential danger from both natural events or from weapons but the cost to fix the infrastructure is massive and not likely to happen
RE: RE: Katrina  
jtfuoco : 1/9/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 13779696 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13776595 AcidTest said:


Quote:


and Puerto Rico were local, not national disasters. Because of that, help could come from those areas of the country that were unaffected.

But an EMP would be a national disaster, including a wrecked power grid that might not be repaired for a year or more. Nothing is comparable. There is no precedent.



National disaster? Are we talking a 100 megaton bomb or a ship launched less then 100 kiloton bomb.

I'm talking out my ass, but I don't think the kind of scenario you are talking about happens unless there are some major nukes going off in several places.


no one knows for sure since there has not been many nuclear devices tested in the upper atmosphere so all projections come from models done by projected output. However I read some where a few years back that it could only take one Russian Topol 800Kt ICBM to do it
Anyone ever think what would happen if yellowstone went?  
I love liverwurst : 1/9/2018 1:35 pm : link
That would be worse, you wouldn't even be able to grow your own food. Think about that
RE: Anyone ever think what would happen if yellowstone went?  
section125 : 1/9/2018 3:04 pm : link
In comment 13780248 I love liverwurst said:
Quote:
That would be worse, you wouldn't even be able to grow your own food. Think about that


That is a scary scenario and there isn't a thing that could be done....
RE: Anyone ever think what would happen if yellowstone went?  
Diver_Down : 1/9/2018 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13780248 I love liverwurst said:
Quote:
That would be worse, you wouldn't even be able to grow your own food. Think about that


The Yellowstone caldera last erupted 630,000 years ago. The supervolcano erupts every 600,000 - 800,000 years. So we are living in the range of when it is due to erupt. Really don't have to worry about post-apocalyptic scenarios as such an eruption would be an extinction event.
Whenever this happens  
LatHarv83 : 1/9/2018 5:31 pm : link
Marvin Lewis will ermerge from the rubble in his Bengals gear ready to coach some ball
RE: RE: Anyone ever think what would happen if yellowstone went?  
jtfuoco : 1/11/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 13780479 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13780248 I love liverwurst said:


Quote:


That would be worse, you wouldn't even be able to grow your own food. Think about that



That is a scary scenario and there isn't a thing that could be done....


so how long would the Ash block the sun how many years? So I can plan on how much more food to store.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner