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I heard Boomer this morning say about the Jags and Bills QB'

Tom from LI : 1/8/2018 8:39 am
I just wanted to post this before I forget. I heard Boomer say that he doesn't believe the Jags are going to pay Bortles 19 million next year. He thought that Eli would be the perfect fit there. I, myself didn't realize that Bortles was scheduled to make that much.

When talking about the 2 QB's he said Bortles can not throw in the bad weather. He could not throw into the wind. He also stated that guys were open all over the place and he couldn't hit them.

He then went on to talk about Bortles throwing motion and said it was a loopy corkscrew motion that inhibited his accuracy. The first thing that came to mind is Sam Darnold. Now I am no expert on any of this stuff but that raised my eyebrows a bit because I have heard of Darnold's long throwing motion. Bortles was taken 3rd overall and Mayock compared him to a young Ben Roethlisberger. Not even close to Ben. This gave me even more of a feel that I don't want Darnold.

Then he talked about Tyrod Taylor and said how he could really spin the ball. The one he said negatively was that Tyrod being short and not being able to see the whole field due to his height. This is why he was always running. So I looked up Tyrod and he is listed at 6'1. I know that Russel Wilson is 5'10 or so... but I think that is more the outlier than the norm. Kind of makes me wary of Baker Mayfield.

So if Eli does ask for his release and goes elsewhere, we will be drafting a QB.

I believe Darnold should have stayed in school another year. I fear that he would be like Sanchez in his success. Especially if we don't have the right head coach in place.

Baker Mayfield is intriguing. I am not sold on the Giants taking him #2 over all.

As much as I want Josh Allen, he is a bad fit if Eli leaves where he still needs time to learn.

Those are my feelings but I think if Eli leaves it will be Josh Rosen.

I am glad I am not making this decision.

Rosen  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 1/8/2018 8:43 am : link
for me. He is clearly the most talented QB in this draft. Watch the film.
If the beat the steelers  
Joey from GlenCove : 1/8/2018 8:44 am : link
and bortles is competent how can they not pay him?
Aside from Eliís first playoff game  
The_Boss : 1/8/2018 8:44 am : link
Yesterdayís Bills/Jags game was the worst QB play Iíve maybe ever had the misfortune of watching in my lifetime. Both guys were woeful.
RE: If the beat the steelers  
Tom from LI : 1/8/2018 8:48 am : link
In comment 13777685 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
and bortles is competent how can they not pay him?


They are not beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh. I would be shocked if they did.

Paying Brotles that money would be a crime  
UConn4523 : 1/8/2018 8:50 am : link
theyíd be better off signing Alex Smith, trading, or moving up for a QB.
Josh Allen is my guy  
Tuckrule : 1/8/2018 9:01 am : link
Heís goinf to shoot up the draft boards after the combine. Young Big Ben
Boomer was banging the Eli to Jags drum yesterday  
ZogZerg : 1/8/2018 9:02 am : link
after the game.

Bortles is big which is why they compared him to big Ben. They are comparing Darnold to Favre.

Regardless, one has nothing to do with the other. Bortles was no where near the prospect that Darnold is.
If he gets hurt in a playoff game...  
Milton : 1/8/2018 9:06 am : link
And can't pass the physical on March 14th, the first day of the new league year, the $19M becomes fully guaranteed. It doesn't even have to be something serious like a torn ACL. It could be a broken bone that takes more than eight weeks to fully heal.

What if it's an injury that requires surgery followed by six weeks recovery time, but Bortles stalls off the surgery until he knows the rehab will extend past March 14th?
RE: RE: If the beat the steelers  
GiantGolfer : 1/8/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13777694 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13777685 Joey from GlenCove said:


Quote:


and bortles is competent how can they not pay him?



They are not beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh. I would be shocked if they did.


They already crushed them once in Pittsburgh earlier this season. Jacksonville has the defense to stop the Steelers offense. This game will be low scoring and tight.
...  
christian : 1/8/2018 9:10 am : link
Manning is a good reminder to reference when looking at Bortles. In Manning's first playoff game he got absolutely throttled and lost. Manning was a younger player, but that first step up in intensity is real.

Same time in their careers Bortles and Manning have won the same amount of playoff games and garnered serious doubt. Difference is Bortles has a year on his resume Manning couldn't dream of at that age.

Next week is a huge week in Bortle's career. He goes in there and gets Pitt like Manning did Dallas and he's getting his 5th year.
I've been harping about the 5th year option for some time  
Diver_Down : 1/8/2018 9:12 am : link
with regards to Bortles. The 5th year option for Top 10 picks is a slightly cheaper option than the franchise tag. So if a team is picking a player in the Top 10, the player can't be a project. They need to play from day 1. We are in the conundrum with Flowers. He's been on scholarship for the past 3 years leaving the team hoping that he can be a mediocre LT. So far that hasn't happened and now they will face the deadline this May to pick up his 5th year option which will guarantee $14M. There are no sure things, but I'm confident that the Giants won't be guaranteeing Flowers $14M so essentially his rookie contract is a 4 year contract.

With QBs, the 5th year option is $19M which is slightly cheaper than the franchise tag. The Jags hedged their bets in the event that Bortles put it all together and would have been a FA demanding the payout with guaranteed money that entails the equivalent of franchise tag money. Now, even if the Jags do advance further in the playoffs, they likely will move on from Bortles unless he is the reason they advance. That will leave them with Chad Henne so they will definitely be in the market for someone that will be able to carry them through the playoffs while their defense is intact.

So that brings us to our draft situation - if we pick a QB in the Top 10, they need to play. A red shirt year can not happen as then there will only be 2 years of playing to determine if a 5th year option is worth being picked up. With QB salaries increasing each year, the 5th year option in 3 years will be more than the $19M for Bortles. If the team want to teach a QB prospect how to take a snap under center, then you burn a 3rd rounder like we did with Webb. You don't burn the #2 pick to teach a QB fundamentals just because their "ceiling" is high. This reasoning is why I only advocate picking Rosen. His injury history is a concern, but I'm not concerned about his longevity for his 3rd contract. I only want to maximize the rookie contract and his second contract. Let him lead the team for 8 years and we can reboot again.
They're not going to pay Bortles $19 million?  
jeff57 : 1/8/2018 9:16 am : link
I can't believe it.
RE: Josh Allen is my guy  
Big Rick in FL : 1/8/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 13777715 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Heís goinf to shoot up the draft boards after the combine. Young Big Ben


More like a young JaMarcus Russell. Great size, great arm and no accuracy. Definitely not a young Roethlisberger. Roethlisberger was an accurate college passer. Allen was not.
Bortles and Taylor are mediocre NFL QBs  
JonC : 1/8/2018 9:18 am : link
agree with Boomer on Bortles, dude just couldn't hit anything yesterday and then he stopped looking downfield and began to run. JAX won the game largely due to Taylor's accuracy and decision making being shite. Both QBs leave a lot of plays on the field.

That said, Darnold and Rosen have much stronger upside and pedigress for the NFL, imv. A mistake to conflate them all.
Mayfield  
Rong5611 : 1/8/2018 9:19 am : link
If he's our guy, or someone else is, we need take him at #2.
RE: If he gets hurt in a playoff game...  
Diver_Down : 1/8/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 13777721 Milton said:
Quote:
And can't pass the physical on March 14th, the first day of the new league year, the $19M becomes fully guaranteed. It doesn't even have to be something serious like a torn ACL. It could be a broken bone that takes more than eight weeks to fully heal.

What if it's an injury that requires surgery followed by six weeks recovery time, but Bortles stalls off the surgery until he knows the rehab will extend past March 14th?


And that is the $19M gamble that Jax rolled the dice with. Starting back in preseason, they had Henne before Bortles on the depth chart as they were not happy with his development that he showed in OTAs. Now, Bortles had some good games this season. There were a few times that he would drop a dime over the receivers shoulder and it would make you say, "wow". But overall, the Jags have rode their defense and rushing attack all the while hoping the Bortles does just enough without making the mistakes that he has shown in the past. Now, it seems that Bad Bortles has shown up for the past 3 weeks and they are stuck in the playoffs. They have to hope there are no injuries. If they were out of the playoff hunt back in November, I suspect that Bortles would have been pulled and wrapped in bubble wrap while Henne took the abuse of the remainder of the season.
I'm not sure TC will be willing to give up picks  
Section331 : 1/8/2018 9:20 am : link
for Eli when he could get Cousins or Smith for money, but you have to think he is ready to move on from Bortles. Bortles was downright awful yesterday. He was missing open receivers who were a couple yards from him, and I don't want to hear that he "took care of the ball". Bullshit, he lucked out when Bills DB's couldn't hang on to INT's. The only thing he did well was run the ball, that is not enough to win playoff games against good teams (of which the Bills were decidedly not).

And to folks who want to draft Barkley at #2, think about how much better off Jax would be if they had taken DeShaun Watson instead of Fournette. Fournette is a very good player, but even the best RB's aren't franchise changers like QB's are. If Watson was the Jax QB (and healthy, of course), they would have a fighting chance in Pitt.
RE: RE: Josh Allen is my guy  
Tuckrule : 1/8/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 13777734 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 13777715 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Heís goinf to shoot up the draft boards after the combine. Young Big Ben



More like a young JaMarcus Russell. Great size, great arm and no accuracy. Definitely not a young Roethlisberger. Roethlisberger was an accurate college passer. Allen was not.


Not accurate? Have you seen him play/throw on the run. Heís very accurate with a rocket arm. Heís big and mobile. Heís very much like ben In his movements and ability to extend plays with his legs. Also a quick release for a 6í5Ē guy. Jamarcus Russell is a terrible comparison but I see the point you tried to make.
Pedestrian  
richinpa : 1/8/2018 9:24 am : link

Both of those D's are what I would give an arm to have.....unrelenting and nasty

With that said, imaging Eli as the Jags Qb would have resulted probably in 5 more sacks for the Bills as he is statue

But Bortles can't hit anyone. He had routes that Romo pointed out that seemed to be a layup and would check down and miss the guy. Surprising as he had a good year 2 years ago and thought he was up and coming. 19M for a backup
Jags will have options ...even a Kenum or alex Smith would work. Smith may be the best fit for them but with a run game, Eli could get his mojo back.

Taylor also missed some go routes/long balls that could have changed the game. He doesnt look that comfortable in the pocket but again Jags D was all over the guy

It shows how hard it is to find a top QB. Bortles 19M? Eli...22M? or higher...they would take Eli for that coinage
Sy mentioned no accuracy I believe him  
gtt350 : 1/8/2018 9:28 am : link
.
Bortles played poorly  
RetroJint : 1/8/2018 9:29 am : link
yesterday but part of it was Hackettís insistence on calling a preponderance of screen plays . They tried every conceivable screen except for the tackle eligible one. Plus they figured that they could run at will on Buffalo. The rushing average was saved by Bortlesí runs .

5 picks in his 2 previous games. Marrone openly expressing doubts about his offense after the game. It all points to them making a move during the off-season. Bortles pretty much has a fork in the road to his career coming up next weekend. The rest of the offense is in place. The Eli talk will flourish amid the pointy heads . Gettleman has to figure out what to do in a comparatively short period of time . I guess Denver Redux is a possibility , as well as the Bills, but both those teams have crud offensive lines . The Billsí inability to pass block is shielded by Taylorís mobility .

Regardless of circumstance , the Giants will go QB at 2. That probably means Rosen or Allen. Obstinate Eli will not countenance any transition scenario so I would cut him(yet another gala Irish wake thrown by Mara) if a trade could not be engineered with what is essentially a 3-team market .
The Bortles and Eli comparison in the early years are not far off  
Jimmy Googs : 1/8/2018 9:30 am : link
Bortles can run much bettter and Eli was more polished with downfield throws, but both had plenty of ups and downs during early careers with accuracy and leadership.

Eli clearly turned it up a few notches to say the least but who is to say Bortles cannot going forward.

As to getting Eli to Jacksonville, Gettleman should be working that deal every day between now and April. I think it would be a win-win for both teams.

As to whether I think the JAGs will win in Pitt, I think no but itís not because they canít....



RE: Pedestrian  
Diver_Down : 1/8/2018 9:35 am : link
In comment 13777745 richinpa said:
Quote:

Both of those D's are what I would give an arm to have.....unrelenting and nasty

With that said, imaging Eli as the Jags Qb would have resulted probably in 5 more sacks for the Bills as he is statue

But Bortles can't hit anyone. He had routes that Romo pointed out that seemed to be a layup and would check down and miss the guy. Surprising as he had a good year 2 years ago and thought he was up and coming. 19M for a backup
Jags will have options ...even a Kenum or alex Smith would work. Smith may be the best fit for them but with a run game, Eli could get his mojo back.

Taylor also missed some go routes/long balls that could have changed the game. He doesnt look that comfortable in the pocket but again Jags D was all over the guy

It shows how hard it is to find a top QB. Bortles 19M? Eli...22M? or higher...they would take Eli for that coinage


Rich, the Jags wouldn't have $22M invested if they trade for Eli. His salary/bonus compensation for next season is $16.5M - a $2.5M savings from Bortles guaranteed $19M.
Eli could ask for his release  
Keith : 1/8/2018 9:40 am : link
and the Giants could say no. Then Jax will have to give us something for him.
RE: Eli could ask for his release  
Diver_Down : 1/8/2018 9:47 am : link
In comment 13777779 Keith said:
Quote:
and the Giants could say no. Then Jax will have to give us something for him.


Or they could just turn to the free agent market and not have to give up picks. We can all agree that Jax will be in the market for a QB. If they are potentially on the hook for $19M with Bortles, then they will have no problem paying Smith, Cousins, etc. Any trade for Eli would have to happen before the roster bonus as the dead money will be $12.4M. If the roster bonus is paid, the dead money is $17.4M.
The ship has sailed, but... Romo  
KingBlue : 1/8/2018 10:06 am : link
I think Romo would be fantastic as the Jags QB.
RE: Bortles and Taylor are mediocre NFL QBs  
RinR : 1/8/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 13777735 JonC said:
Quote:
agree with Boomer on Bortles, dude just couldn't hit anything yesterday and then he stopped looking downfield and began to run.


He had 1 more yard rushing than passing. Unbelievable in today's NFL.
I have very different memory of Eli 1st playoff game  
twostepgiants : 1/8/2018 10:49 am : link
The game I remember eas thst the entire Giants team was completely unprepared to play. I didnt see one person who looked like tbey had any idea of what was happening. They got throttled from first play. The Panthers jumped out 19-0 at halftime

Shockey created a post game media firestorm by saying the team was unprepared and blamed the coaches

Eli at thst point i thought dodnt play well but wasnt our biggest problem. He really had no chance

It was in 2nd half with game out of reach that he started taking risks and got intercepted 3 times.

I thought Eli was the least person responsible for that catastrophe
I will be the contrarian  
HomerJones45 : 1/8/2018 10:54 am : link
I think they are going to pay him. For all the harping about his play, he threw 4 300+ yard games, 21 td passes as against 13 picks this season. He's very mobile (sacked 24 times all season, ran for 350 yards and 2 td) and can win a game with his legs. And he's only 26 years old. $19 million is not excessive for a starting qb. He did not throw the ball well yesterday in the first half (6-8 and a td in the second half, but that's him, he can be very inconsistent)

The pundits can talk all they want, I don't see the Jags (or anyone else) sending picks to the Giants to solve the Giants issues.
I listen to Boomer often  
joeinpa : 1/8/2018 11:03 am : link
He does not have a high opinion of Eli as a quarterback at this time in his career

But he obviously would be an upgrade fir the Jags
RE: Rosen  
Lefty : 1/8/2018 11:31 am : link
In comment 13777682 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
for me. He is clearly the most talented QB in this draft. Watch the film.
The question isn't whether he is the most talented, it is whether he is a legit franchise starting QB.

He is not. The only wise decision is a trade down.
I think it is funny  
NYG07 : 1/8/2018 11:52 am : link
that so many people are trying to talk themselves out of drafting a QB this year.

Last year everyone screamed to wait until next year when this brilliant QB class was coming out.

Rosen is probably the best prospect. He has the best arm talent, but he has injury concerns and is a statue, so the Giants would have to greatly improve the offensive line for him to have success.

I know a lot of people on here are high on Allen, but I hate him as a prospect. Accuracy issues in college rarely translate to the NFL. See Blake Bortles.

I also think that if Mayfield was 2-3 inches taller, he would be far and away the best overall prospect in the draft. He is extremely accurate, and his mobility is perfect for today's NFL.

I also think Darnold has that it factor, even though he has a weird, Byron Leftwich like delivery.

It is a weird year to be in the QB market, but as much as you think this class is flawed, I think 4 QBs are going to go in the top 6. It is up to the Giants to pick the right one. Cleveland will probably take Darnonld, and it will be up to the Giants management to decide who they like best of the rest.
RE: I'm not sure TC will be willing to give up picks  
trueblueinpw : 1/8/2018 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13777740 Section331 said:
Quote:

And to folks who want to draft Barkley at #2, think about how much better off Jax would be if they had taken DeShaun Watson instead of Fournette. Fournette is a very good player, but even the best RB's aren't franchise changers like QB's are. If Watson was the Jax QB (and healthy, of course), they would have a fighting chance in Pitt.


Yup. Iíve been intrigued by Barkley but at the end of the day a RB at 2 doesnít meet the risk/reward of the draft pick.
RE: The ship has sailed, but... Romo  
Eman11 : 1/8/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13777829 KingBlue said:
Quote:
I think Romo would be fantastic as the Jags QB.


It pretty much sounded like he felt the same way yesterday. I swear you could almost hear in his voice how badly he wished he was behind center for them during that game.
RE: ...  
Matt M. : 1/8/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13777726 christian said:
Quote:
Manning is a good reminder to reference when looking at Bortles. In Manning's first playoff game he got absolutely throttled and lost. Manning was a younger player, but that first step up in intensity is real.

Same time in their careers Bortles and Manning have won the same amount of playoff games and garnered serious doubt. Difference is Bortles has a year on his resume Manning couldn't dream of at that age.

Next week is a huge week in Bortle's career. He goes in there and gets Pitt like Manning did Dallas and he's getting his 5th year.
Wasn't that also a game we literally played guys off the street the week before due to injuries.
The bigest issue I have with Rosen is injuries  
Matt M. : 1/8/2018 12:38 pm : link
The 2 concussions are a really big deal; I would be afraid to invest my future in a QB coming in with a scrambled brain. Throw in the ACL and I would prefer to stay away.

That is the problem with this draft that I have been wary of for months. There is not a single QB that presents himself as a slam dunk for a #1 or #2 pick, all for different reasons.
RE: The bigest issue I have with Rosen is injuries  
Canton : 1/8/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13778205 Matt M. said:
Quote:
The 2 concussions are a really big deal; I would be afraid to invest my future in a QB coming in with a scrambled brain. Throw in the ACL and I would prefer to stay away.

That is the problem with this draft that I have been wary of for months. There is not a single QB that presents himself as a slam dunk for a #1 or #2 pick, all for different reasons.


I feel the same. Even if he came in, and eventually lit up the league, he's one concussion away from having his neurologist dad, advising him to retire. He'd already be set with the payday he'll get for his rookie contract. He can walk away, with quite a few million in the bank. I can't see the Giants playing Russian Roulette.
If Eli was the Jax QB yesterday...  
silverfox : 1/8/2018 3:33 pm : link
Buffalo would likely be advancing in the playoffs. Over and over again, bortles made amazing plays with his legs that Eli couldn't make even 14 years ago. So go ahead jax, make a play for Eli.
RE: If Eli was the Jax QB yesterday...  
PatersonPlank : 1/8/2018 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13778535 silverfox said:
Quote:
Buffalo would likely be advancing in the playoffs. Over and over again, bortles made amazing plays with his legs that Eli couldn't make even 14 years ago. So go ahead jax, make a play for Eli.


Bortles made plays with his legs because that's all he can do. He can throw accurately or quickly read defenses. Eli would have picked them apart from the pocket, he had guys wide open. Lots of good QBs would have had a field day.
RE: RE: The bigest issue I have with Rosen is injuries  
Eman11 : 1/8/2018 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13778300 Canton said:
Quote:
In comment 13778205 Matt M. said:


Quote:


The 2 concussions are a really big deal; I would be afraid to invest my future in a QB coming in with a scrambled brain. Throw in the ACL and I would prefer to stay away.

That is the problem with this draft that I have been wary of for months. There is not a single QB that presents himself as a slam dunk for a #1 or #2 pick, all for different reasons.



I feel the same. Even if he came in, and eventually lit up the league, he's one concussion away from having his neurologist dad, advising him to retire. He'd already be set with the payday he'll get for his rookie contract. He can walk away, with quite a few million in the bank. I can't see the Giants playing Russian Roulette.


Let's not forget he's already had right shoulder surgery as well. The guy has been beaten up in college and despite his talent, I'm real concerned about investing in him because of all his injuries too.

He's only finished 8 of his last 20 games at UCLA. How does anyone think he'll fare better in the NFL?
RE: RE: If Eli was the Jax QB yesterday...  
RobCarpenter : 1/8/2018 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13778591 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13778535 silverfox said:


Quote:


Buffalo would likely be advancing in the playoffs. Over and over again, bortles made amazing plays with his legs that Eli couldn't make even 14 years ago. So go ahead jax, make a play for Eli.



Bortles made plays with his legs because that's all he can do. He can throw accurately or quickly read defenses. Eli would have picked them apart from the pocket, he had guys wide open. Lots of good QBs would have had a field day.


Bortles was horrible yesterday. They gave him screen passes b/c he can't throw downfield.

If stupid Buffalo had actually tried to run on first and goal instead of throwing, they'd have gone up 7-0 and probably would have won that game.
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