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It is a nervous time for the NY Football Giants

NYSports1 : 1/9/2018 9:52 am
This hire of the next HC is utterly important because the Giants are known to be a franchise that likes stability and BM was here for 2 years only and again searching for another HC. Wilks is unknown and is a huge huge gamble in my mind but we can strike gold like Tomlin or we can be back searching in 2 to 3 years. Thoughts?
We were 3-13 last year and everyone was hurt  
Neckbone1333 : 1/9/2018 10:00 am : link
Not sure I'm nervous after that. Can't get much worse. If anything I am excited for pieces to be coming back and for what this draft will bring.
I totally agree  
UberAlias : 1/9/2018 10:02 am : link
I just posed in another thread that Wilks seems like he would be a fantastic hire, but for a more stable situation.

The guy is green as grass and will be thrust into a volatile environment with several franchise altering challenges of the like's he has no experience with.

Transitions away from SB winning QB are often very ugly. To have sustained success you need to develop new QB. Wilks needs to hire someone for this. He's got a major superstar Deva ego to deal with, and his lack of resume puts him at a disadvantage. There's lockeroom turmoil and a media market that can turn on you on a dime. He'll need to build an elite staff and with his own lack of experience will need to convince more seasoned coaches to sign on, at least for OC.

This is not an environment I feel very comfortable about taking a shot on inexperience, no matter how much you may like the guy. He blows any of those situations (Eli, Odell, new QB, etc.) and the franchise takes a huge hit.
not nervous at all  
UConn4523 : 1/9/2018 10:04 am : link
its an interesting offseason. I doubt we make the same mistakes twice - not saying it can't happen but I feel a lot better with DG in charge.
That said  
UberAlias : 1/9/2018 10:04 am : link
If he's the guy I'll do my best to remain positive. As I said there are qualities you like. I just feel they are taking a real gamble here on inexperience with too much at stake.
No question  
BigBlueinDE : 1/9/2018 10:05 am : link
they have to get this hire right and hit a home run with the 2nd pick.
Uber..  
Sean : 1/9/2018 10:05 am : link
Who of experience do you want?

John Fox
Mike Smith
Wade Phillips
Brian Billick

Is that what you have in mind?
Sean  
UberAlias : 1/9/2018 10:08 am : link
My picks (not that it means much) are McDaniels 1 and Patricia 2. Wilks and Shurmur 3.
they were 0-5 and in freefall BEFORE anyone got hurt. McAdoo  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2018 10:09 am : link
and his "offense" were atrocious in every way. As it is in GB too when Rodgers doesn't play. Wilks at least offers the possibility of returning to Giants football, or what passes for it in today's game.
i would wait out the Pats and Belichick  
djm : 1/9/2018 10:11 am : link
which is scary...don't care...wait it out. Use back channels...use whatever means you have to use...contact Kraft and find out what the hell is really happening up there. If Bill is intent on leaving, Kraft will want to recoup as much as he can.

Ill say this right now. If this shit is true, if these rumors are true, Bill is coming here and we're gonna give up a fortune to get him. And it will be awesome. BBI will go bananas because of all the picks going to New England...don't care. Get him. Leadership is worth EVERYTHING.

Myers is shit but he's not making this shit up. If the Giants don't have a HC in place by Friday I am going to start believing that this might in fact happen.
Would Mike Smith  
Glover : 1/9/2018 10:39 am : link
still be the coach had he gotten the job? I think so. Of course so many variables, who would have been the OC and all else, but his experience probably would have stemmed the absolute meltdown of 2017.
I was in favor of Mac's hiring. I liked the new guy, continuity on offense, was ok with the Giants taking the chance that he would be a good leader. I was (and the Giants were) wrong. I want someone with HC experience, pro or college.
Uber  
ryanmkeane : 1/9/2018 10:44 am : link
no offense but you make it seem like the Giants are a sinking titanic or something.

They have pro bowl players, one of the most talented receivers and tight ends in the game, a talented defense, and the #2 draft pick.
RE: Would Mike Smith  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2018 10:48 am : link
In comment 13779922 Glover said:
Quote:
still be the coach had he gotten the job? I think so. Of course so many variables, who would have been the OC and all else, but his experience probably would have stemmed the absolute meltdown of 2017.
I was in favor of Mac's hiring. I liked the new guy, continuity on offense, was ok with the Giants taking the chance that he would be a good leader. I was (and the Giants were) wrong. I want someone with HC experience, pro or college.


This "continuity on offense" was the misconception made by most of us. The offense run in 2014 and 2015 was a hybrid of TC/BM. With TC out of the way, McAdoosh was able to implement his GB scheme in full with disastrous results.

RE: Uber  
UConn4523 : 1/9/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 13779930 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
no offense but you make it seem like the Giants are a sinking titanic or something.

They have pro bowl players, one of the most talented receivers and tight ends in the game, a talented defense, and the #2 draft pick.


Yup. No idea why anyone is down on the longterm outlook of this team. We had a shit year, it happens.
I feel much more confident with Gettleman running the ship.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/9/2018 10:56 am : link
And considering his time in Carolina, he probably has a good feel for Wilks.
You can slant the argument any way you want  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/9/2018 11:00 am : link
depending on which candidate you prefer (or don't).

- If you like Wilks, you'll point to Mike Tomlin having only been a coordinator for one year or Andy Reid having never been a coordinator. If you dislike him, you'll point to recent history with McAdoo.

- If you like McDaniels, you'll point to his success with New England and claim his prior HC experience as a positive, hoping that he has learned from his mistakes in his first go-round. If you dislike him, you'll note that his prior HC experience is basically a carbon copy of McAdoo's, and the history of Patriots' assistants failing when they leave the nest.

- If you like Patricia, you'll point to his intelligence and strong track record running the defense in New England. If you dislike him, you'll ask how much of the defense is his and how much is Belichick's, as well as the same question as McDaniels about Pats' assistants.

- If you like Shurmur, you'll point to his success as an OC/QB coach in multiple spots with multiple HCs and multiple QBs, and add that he does have HC experience. If you dislike him, you'll point to his weak record in Cleveland as HC and his ties to the WCO being a continuation of the same bad fit schematically that McAdoo was.

There are typically three types of candidates: hot rising coordinators (could end up with Tomlin or McAdoo), long-term coordinators waiting for their chance (could end up with McDermott or Childress), and retreads (could end up with Belichick or Crennel).

The hot rising coordinators come with a ton of risk because of the unknown factor. The retreads tend to be retreads for a reason more often than not: it's not as easy to change one's personality and leadership traits as many assume. The long-term coordinators feel like the safest choice because they haven't failed yet and they have some track record to give you comfort, but often the "safe" choice robs you of the highest possible reward.

Ultimately, IMO, the qualities that lead to a HC are more personality-driven than they are resume-based. I have favored Shurmur based on his track record, but I do believe that the Giants are prioritizing getting the right voice in the room more than X's and O's (that responsibility can be bolstered by the coordinators if the HC is the right leader). We'll see who Gettleman/Mara believe the right candidate is.
RE: Uber  
UberAlias : 1/9/2018 11:06 am : link
In comment 13779930 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
no offense but you make it seem like the Giants are a sinking titanic or something.

They have pro bowl players, one of the most talented receivers and tight ends in the game, a talented defense, and the #2 draft pick.
I'm not talking about lack of roster talent. I'm talking about real challenges that will confront this head coach that are potentially franchise altering. Transitions away from believed franchise QBs are not easy. They often get ugly and we already got a taste of it last year. Developing Eli's successor is paramount to any sustained success. Often times guys get appointed to HC positions on their ability to develop the team's next QB -that's how important it is. You can't screw it up. Dealing with Odell is going to be a challenge, there is no doubt about it. He is a superstar with a superstar ego and loves the spotlight. The locker room issues last year were well documented. Players were suspended, there were confrontations with the coach, one guy was release reports the starting OT refused to play, there were media reports of guys quitting, etc. The team went from playoffs to 3 wins, and it wasn't all due to injuries.

These are real issues guys. You can downplay them all you want, but you fail to develop Eli's successor or mess up the Eli transition or botch things with the most talented player to play in blue since LT and the next coach could severely damage the organization.
RE: No question  
Beezer : 1/9/2018 11:10 am : link
In comment 13779854 BigBlueinDE said:
Quote:
they have to get this hire right and hit a home run with the 2nd pick.


I don't feel the same way about the 2nd pick. Yes, it needs to be good. But I'm more interested in a very solid draft, where there are kids coming in who are ready to go, rather than the "home run." If the Giants have 3-4 solid players for X-years ahead, that's success ... and if they decide to trade down a bit and get another pick or 2, then 4-6 solid players would be the less sexy long-haul stand-up double. And that would be pretty damn good.
I think they are at a crucial tipping point in franchise history. No  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2018 11:14 am : link
playoffs 5 of 6 years, losing records in 4 of 5, most losses in franchise history in 2017, years or poor dfrafts leaving a top heavy roster lacking in depth, the career of a 15yr , face of the franchise QB winding down and confusion in management unseen since the '70s make it so.

If the Gettleman/name the coach hires don't work out we could be looking at a 1964-1980 type dark age. It is imperative that the scouting/player procurement process be remedied immediately, and that the new HC and Staff are home runs, or at least doubles.

I have a pretty good feeling about Gettleman. At least he's decisive. And he has the backing of management.
RE: RE: Uber  
Canton : 1/9/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 13779967 UberAlias said:
Quote:


I'm not talking about lack of roster talent. I'm talking about real challenges that will confront this head coach that are potentially franchise altering. .


You can bet your ass DG will be there "holding his hand" along the way, to make sure those franchise altering decisions that are made, are the correct ones. DG will have input and surely final say.

That's why we're not going to get McDaniels. McDaniels wants more control of those " franchise altering" decisions.
RE: I feel much more confident with Gettleman running the ship.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/9/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13779948 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
And considering his time in Carolina, he probably has a good feel for Wilks.


I agree. If it was a new GM who doesn't have the relationship that Gettleman has with Wilks, I would be concerned hiring any first time HC.

I like the moves he's made and what Gettleman has said so far. I'd be fine with Wilks.
RE: i would wait out the Pats and Belichick  
EricJ : 1/9/2018 11:44 am : link
In comment 13779867 djm said:
Quote:
which is scary...don't care...wait it out. Use back channels...use whatever means you have to use...contact Kraft and find out what the hell is really happening up there. If Bill is intent on leaving, Kraft will want to recoup as much as he can.


Well, if we are going into Superbowl weekend and the Giants still did not make a hire yet... then let the speculation continue.
Pat Shurmur  
chitt17 : 1/9/2018 11:52 am : link
Best choice!
RE: RE: RE: Uber  
UberAlias : 1/9/2018 11:59 am : link
In comment 13779991 Canton said:
Quote:
In comment 13779967 UberAlias said:


Quote:




I'm not talking about lack of roster talent. I'm talking about real challenges that will confront this head coach that are potentially franchise altering. .



You can bet your ass DG will be there "holding his hand" along the way, to make sure those franchise altering decisions that are made, are the correct ones. DG will have input and surely final say.

That's why we're not going to get McDaniels. McDaniels wants more control of those " franchise altering" decisions.
No doubt.
No doubt these are very important decisions for the franchise going  
Simms11 : 1/9/2018 12:34 pm : link
forward, but I think the Giants are doing their due diligence and ensuring they have their I's dotted and T's crossed this time. I think it's always a risk no matter which decision hey make. Even if BB came here, it's a different team and there's no guarantees that he'd be the guy to get them to another Super Bowl. Parcells coached 3 other teams and couldn't get any one of them over the hump either. He did decent jobs, but couldn't get them to a Super Bowl either. Speaking of Parcells, he was only a DC for like 3 years himself before becoming a Head Coach, with no other Head Coaching experience. He was almost fired after his abysmal first year, as well. These guys may need a few years before you actually see decent results.
Giants looking for new coach  
joeinpa : 1/9/2018 1:18 pm : link
Belichick one of the names being thrown around he, maybe their next franchise quarterback or great running back.

I think it s exciting
RE: No question  
81_Great_Dane : 1/9/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13779854 BigBlueinDE said:
Quote:
they have to get this hire right and hit a home run with the 2nd pick.
Y'know, "have to" is funny. What if they don't? What if they whiff on both? Then the team is bad for a while, and eventually, they fire the coach, move on from the draft bust, and we hope the next guy is better. If not, repeat.

That's what we went through from about 1966-1982. I sure hope they don't go through another 15 years of stinking, because I'm getting old and it's depressing to root for a stinky team, but the Giants and the fans survived then, we'd survive now.
Agree with Victor, a major turning point  
Red Dog : 1/9/2018 1:40 pm : link
If they get things mostly right, this could be a winning franchise again and fairly soon. There is some real talent to work with, the NFC East is open for the taking, and they should have a couple of comp choices in this year's draft as well as picking almost at the top of each round.

But if they don't get quite a lot of things right - including the new HC and staff, draft well, make good vet FA choices, manage the cap well, etc., plus have better luck with injuries in years ahead - this team could be at the bottom of the league for years to come.
I Don't understand this thread  
Alwaysblue22 : 1/9/2018 2:04 pm : link
Why are you nervous about who the new coach will be? What difference does it make? None of us know how well any coach will do. The Head Coach does not play on the field. The players win games and not coaches. All the Head coach can do is put the players in the best position to win or screw things up and stop them from winning. No matter who is hired please remember that all Head Coaches , like baseball managers, are hired in order to be fired when things do not go as expected. There is no superman coach out there. Every coach is a human being. That means that every coach is flawed. We need to avoid hiring another Ben McAdoo who was married to a single offensive philosophy and who had his own idea about what comprises the ideal QB. And that Ideal QB WAS NOT Eli Manning. McAdoo was a mis-match. When TC left and Mack did not have to adhere to TC's desire for a balanced offense, we saw how Mack's love of the WCO and his strict adherence to that style of play hurt this team, and kept its defense on the field longer than any other defense since the Giants led the league in three and outs. We need to avoid the single minded ( stubborn) head coach. That is why I prefer someone with a DC back ground. I think DG also expressed that.
RE: We were 3-13 last year and everyone was hurt  
Mike Graves : 1/9/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13779841 Neckbone1333 said:
Quote:
Not sure I'm nervous after that. Can't get much worse. If anything I am excited for pieces to be coming back and for what this draft will bring.


Let's stop with the injury excuse we were 0-4 heading to 0-5 before the injuries started
RE: RE: We were 3-13 last year and everyone was hurt  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2018 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13780352 Mike Graves said:
Quote:
In comment 13779841 Neckbone1333 said:


Quote:


Not sure I'm nervous after that. Can't get much worse. If anything I am excited for pieces to be coming back and for what this draft will bring.



Let's stop with the injury excuse we were 0-4 heading to 0-5 before the injuries started


Thank you! Glad somebody else noticed.
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