Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Barkley is a No-Brainer

Zepp : 1/9/2018 12:56 pm
QB should not be drafted by the Giants at 2. We can get a special player like Barkley and get a QB in the 2nd.

Video of Rich Eisen talking about Barkley’s value.
Link - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
The fuck do I care about his interviews?  
Greg from LI : 1/9/2018 1:45 pm : link
I care about one thing, on-field performance. Until he (or any college player) steps on an NFL field and shines, he's not guaranteed to do anything.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/9/2018 1:46 pm : link
Start with the schools.

How many times in the last decade has there not been a pretty highly-regarded Alabama RB in the draft?

Whether it's Richardson, Ingram, Lacy, Yeldon, Henry, Drake.. and now Harris/Scarborough, they always have highly-productive RB's.

That said, it hasn't always translated in the NFL. Richardson flopped. Lacy got off to a good start but his career is dwindling fast. Yeldon is nothing special. Ingram has been very good, Henry looks to be a good 2-down RB, Drake had a nice year, but the results are mixed.

PSU hasn't had a RB this highly-regarded since Larry Johnson unless I am missing someone.

To me, it's much harder to play for a school like Penn St. and be considered an elite RB prospect. It is much easier for young RB's to produce in Tuscaloosa.

Every team that played Penn St. went into the game saying "stop Barkley and no one else will beat us"

I'm not even a proponent of drafting him @ 2 - I just don't think Richardson is a good comp.
RE: RE: RE: Why take Barkley at 2  
Giantfootball025 : 1/9/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13780257 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13780253 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


There is this notion going around that guys like Guice and Michel are pretty much on par or a tad below Barkley. After the combine process ends, this myth will be erased.



No it won't. Workout warriors aren't always great NFL players.


Very true, but when the best overall RB is also the best overall athlete that speaks volumes. I'm not saying take SB because there are a lot of very good running backs in this draft, but I'm not sure a lot of people realize just how strong, fast, and explosive Barkley really is. The numbers at the combine will prove it, no doubt. I haven't seen a back as good as he is since Peterson. We also can't discredit that he's also going to interview extremely well, and is the type of player the Giants could/would want in their locker room. He checks off A LOT of boxes is really what I'm saying.
RE: The fuck do I care about his interviews?  
ryanmkeane : 1/9/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13780272 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I care about one thing, on-field performance. Until he (or any college player) steps on an NFL field and shines, he's not guaranteed to do anything.

Are you actually this obtuse? You don't care about interviewing a kid before drafting him? You're joking right?
again  
Greg from LI : 1/9/2018 1:52 pm : link
If he's THAT strong and THAT fast and THAT explosive, why isn't his production head and shoulders above his peers? Why was he held under 100 yards in 8 of 13 games?
RE: again  
ryanmkeane : 1/9/2018 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13780302 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If he's THAT strong and THAT fast and THAT explosive, why isn't his production head and shoulders above his peers? Why was he held under 100 yards in 8 of 13 games?

Jesus.
For whatever reason, RBs are hard to project from college to NFL  
Milton : 1/9/2018 1:54 pm : link
Which is funny because you would think they'd be the easiest position to project since they carry the ball so many times a game. I remember thinking Tim Biakabutuka was going to be a star. And do you remember Mike Rozier?
Greg  
ryanmkeane : 1/9/2018 1:56 pm : link
your inability to grasp basic concepts is frightening. College production has little to do with NFL potential. Odell Beckham averaged 47, 700 yards, and 4 TD a season at LSU.
If not for the suspension  
ryanmkeane : 1/9/2018 1:57 pm : link
the guy the Cowboys took #4 overall would have led the league in rushing his first 2 seasons in the league. Barkley is a much better prospect than Elliott was coming out.
RE: R E: Why take Barkley at 2  
section125 : 1/9/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13780253 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13780244 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


When the gap between him, Guice and Michel isn’t that big?


There is this notion going around that guys like Guice and Michel are pretty much on par or a tad below Barkley. After the combine process ends, this myth will be erased.


Silly thought process. Barkley disappeared in big games. Sony Michel excelled. Gym rats and workout warriors excel at the combine. What is on tape is more important. Put tape and combine together and then you have some evidence.

I suspect that a few RBs come close or exceed Barkley.
The combine will only show speed and bench presses.
RE: again  
Canton : 1/9/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13780302 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If he's THAT strong and THAT fast and THAT explosive, why isn't his production head and shoulders above his peers? Why was he held under 100 yards in 8 of 13 games?


Because of what Penn State had in front of him and defenses going all out to stop Penn States strength.

The talent is undoubtedly there. He's a very special player. If he was on Dallas with their offensive line he'd be a human highlight reel every week on the NFL Network.

He's better than Zeke. Probably the best to come out since Peterson. He doesn't have Peterson's explosion but he does everything else well. He's an excellent blocker as a RB. His cutting ability is a bit Barry-esqe. Lastly, he's a triple threat with his running, catching, and as return specialist.

He's the real deal.
Arguably the best player in the draft  
Canton : 1/9/2018 2:03 pm : link
.
Anyone..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2018 2:04 pm : link
who calls something a no-brainer, a sure hit or a future star as if it is fact either hasn't followed the game for very long or isn't that intelligent.

Neither really helps add credence to the point?
DG did take Christian Mc #8  
Vanzetti : 1/9/2018 2:08 pm : link
But CM is a huge weapon as a receiver and multi purpose back. CM also really run between the tackles , which is the knock on Barkeley

Obviously, the situations are not identical but the fact that DG took s RB so high just last year suggests to me that Barkeley could be in play for the Giants.
FMiC  
ryanmkeane : 1/9/2018 2:09 pm : link
saying "the kid is going to be a star" is my opinion based on watching him play for 3 seasons, reading about him, and keeping track of him off the field.

I'm not guaranteeing it, but he is, by all accounts, a better bet than anyone in this draft to succeed based on the NFL athleticism and kid that he is.
RE: Nope  
GiantFanInTX : 1/9/2018 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13780174 Zepp said:
Quote:
Barkley is more of a guarantee of being a special player than Rosen or Darnold. You guys act as if there are no QBs that busy. Barkley makes the offense an instant playoff caliber one. We have a vet QB that can still play and a young one. We can get another young one to compete later. We need a RB and sorry scrub RBs don’t become special players.


A running back makes us an instant playoff team in a passing league that relies heavily on playmaker QBs? Sounds about right...
Using that 2nd on a RB with all the O-Line woes we have  
montanagiant : 1/9/2018 2:29 pm : link
Would be a waste of the pick
RE: RE: Why take Barkley at 2  
ajr2456 : 1/9/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13780253 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13780244 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


When the gap between him, Guice and Michel isn’t that big?


There is this notion going around that guys like Guice and Michel are pretty much on par or a tad below Barkley. After the combine process ends, this myth will be erased.


Barkley is far from a perfect prospect. The power doesn't show up on tape. Guice is a better pure runner.
I think the best running backs after Barkley  
Ira : 1/9/2018 2:45 pm : link
are Guice, Love and Michel. I'm not sure if any of them will be around on day 2.
RE: RE: R E: Why take Barkley at 2  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/9/2018 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13780315 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13780253 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 13780244 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


When the gap between him, Guice and Michel isn’t that big?


There is this notion going around that guys like Guice and Michel are pretty much on par or a tad below Barkley. After the combine process ends, this myth will be erased.



Silly thought process. Barkley disappeared in big games. Sony Michel excelled. Gym rats and workout warriors excel at the combine. What is on tape is more important. Put tape and combine together and then you have some evidence.

I suspect that a few RBs come close or exceed Barkley.
The combine will only show speed and bench presses.


A few? C'mon really? That's a bold statement.

I'd be interested to see whether Sy feels that "a few RBs come close to or exceed" Barkley.


It's perfectly reasonable to suggest that taking a RB that high isn't the best COA, but as usual with BBI this has now snowballed into foolish nonsense if we are suggesting that multiple RBs are better prospects.
everyone always talks about those superbowl winning...  
BronxBombers : 1/9/2018 2:46 pm : link
runningbacks...take a look at the 10 best rb's ever, most have never sniffed a superbowl ring.
RE: everyone always talks about those superbowl winning...  
ryanmkeane : 1/9/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13780439 BronxBombers said:
Quote:
runningbacks...take a look at the 10 best rb's ever, most have never sniffed a superbowl ring.

Sure, guys like Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen...they never won a Super Bowl.
RE: If not for the suspension  
giants#1 : 1/9/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13780313 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the guy the Cowboys took #4 overall would have led the league in rushing his first 2 seasons in the league. Barkley is a much better prospect than Elliott was coming out.


Elliott's a great RB, but he also has 3 All-Pro OL in front of him. Just a *little* bit easier to run behind that OL than, say, the Giants...
RE: everyone always talks about those superbowl winning...  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/9/2018 2:55 pm : link
In comment 13780439 BronxBombers said:
Quote:
runningbacks...take a look at the 10 best rb's ever, most have never sniffed a superbowl ring.



Speaking of foolish nonsense.



We just spew bullshit to support our view with out knowing or caring if it is accurate.
and Alfred Morris ran for 4.8 ypc  
giants#1 : 1/9/2018 2:56 pm : link
last year behind that Dallas OL.
RE: everyone always talks about those superbowl winning...  
arcarsenal : 1/9/2018 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13780439 BronxBombers said:
Quote:
runningbacks...take a look at the 10 best rb's ever, most have never sniffed a superbowl ring.


The player is less important than the team productivity.

Look at the top 10 rushing teams this year - 9 of them made the playoffs.

You need to run the football.
Top 10 RBs (by total rushing yards)  
giants#1 : 1/9/2018 3:05 pm : link
Emmitt - 2 SBs
Payton - 1 SB
Sanders - 0 appearances
Curtis Martin - 0 rings, loss in only appearance
Frank Gore - 0 rings, loss in only appearance
Tomlinson - 0 appearances
Bettis - 1 SB
Dickerson - 0 appearances
Dorsett - 1 win/1 loss
Brown - 1 title (pre-SB)

11-15 (since Faulk was mentioned):
Faulk - 1 win/1 loss
AP - 0 appearances
Edgerrin James - 1 loss
Marcus Allen - 1 SB
Franco Harris - 4 SBs

So the 'top 10' (debatable list, but not subjective) combined for 6 titles (5 SB rings) in 9 SB/title game appearances.

Adding in the next 5 gives 12 titles (11 SBs) in 17 appearances.

In other words, the top 15 RBs average 0.8 titles/career and 1.13 appearances/career.
RE: I think the best running backs after Barkley  
Eman11 : 1/9/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13780434 Ira said:
Quote:
are Guice, Love and Michel. I'm not sure if any of them will be around on day 2.


I'd add Penny to that group. The guy is gonna be a helluva pro IMO.
It’s a no-brainer to draft a QB,  
Simms11 : 1/9/2018 3:15 pm : link
unless you are convinced that Webb is the answer?! You need a QB in order to get to the playoffs and win it all. There’s no mistaking that. Eli will probably not be around more then another year and then what? We’re in, what DG likes to call, QB Hell!!
There is no such thing as a no brainer  
Sy'56 : 1/9/2018 4:01 pm : link
Unless you try believe in a QB being here for the 10-12 years once Eli hangs em up.

I am huge on Barkley, but even I won't say he is a no brainer
RE: Top 10 RBs (by total rushing yards)  
BronxBombers : 1/9/2018 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13780480 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Emmitt - 2 SBs
Payton - 1 SB
Sanders - 0 appearances
Curtis Martin - 0 rings, loss in only appearance
Frank Gore - 0 rings, loss in only appearance
Tomlinson - 0 appearances
Bettis - 1 SB
Dickerson - 0 appearances
Dorsett - 1 win/1 loss
Brown - 1 title (pre-SB)

11-15 (since Faulk was mentioned):
Faulk - 1 win/1 loss
AP - 0 appearances
Edgerrin James - 1 loss
Marcus Allen - 1 SB
Franco Harris - 4 SBs

So the 'top 10' (debatable list, but not subjective) combined for 6 titles (5 SB rings) in 9 SB/title game appearances.

Adding in the next 5 gives 12 titles (11 SBs) in 17 appearances.

In other words, the top 15 RBs average 0.8 titles/career and 1.13 appearances/career.


do you really think curtis martin, bettis, the edge, faulk, franco harris are in the top 10 for god sake? my point is it doesnt matter if you have no line or qb. the sad thing is this board is all about black and white, no gray area...curtis fuggin martin, just stop it.
RE: RE: everyone always talks about those superbowl winning...  
Vanzetti : 1/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13780463 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13780439 BronxBombers said:


Quote:


runningbacks...take a look at the 10 best rb's ever, most have never sniffed a superbowl ring.



The player is less important than the team productivity.

Look at the top 10 rushing teams this year - 9 of them made the playoffs.

You need to run the football.


Giants were 31st running the ball when they won the SB in 2011 and Packers were 32 nd when they won. So, I think there lots of different ways to win.

Running backs are not that impactful in the NFL  
Nitro : 1/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
this is a shitty premise tied with OP's hubris. Crap thread.
RE: RE: Top 10 RBs (by total rushing yards)  
giants#1 : 1/9/2018 4:20 pm : link
In comment 13780573 BronxBombers said:
Quote:



do you really think curtis martin, bettis, the edge, faulk, franco harris are in the top 10 for god sake? my point is it doesnt matter if you have no line or qb. the sad thing is this board is all about black and white, no gray area...curtis fuggin martin, just stop it.


You have some reading issues. I clearly state that whether it's the top 10 all time is debatable. I was merely listing the top 10 all time rushers. Clearly Jim Brown is better than 10th and Frank Gore is closer to Tiki than the #5 RB all time.

Faulk is definitely in the discussion for top 10 RBs though. And Martin is very underrated, though probably more top 20.
RE: RE: .  
allstarjim : 1/9/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13780240 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13780217 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


That said - can we please not compare Saquon Barkley to Trent Richardson?

Not even close.

I'm sorry but we get to continue to compare Barkley to Trent Richardson because Richardson was the 3rd pick in the draft and considered an elite talent. Everybody can talk about what a stiff he is now, but at the time he was drafted third overall nobody batted an eye.

Here is a snippet from Boylhart's profile...

Quote:


Trent is one of the best players in this draft -- in fact, some might say he is the best. He should impact right away for the team that drafts him. Every year we go through the experts suggesting that the NFL is a passing league and then about half-way through the season, teams who are losing begin to rely on the running game to start winning once again. You cannot go through the season and keep a healthy quarterback without the threat of a strong running game for defenses to worry about and game plan for. History has proven that many teams win with average quarterbacks who have excellent running backs in the back field. History has also proven that not many franchise quarterbacks succeed without a running game to balance the offense. It's simple -- the formula is excellent running game equals a lesser chance of the quarterback getting hit and injured. Trent will be a very successful running back and a multi-talented threat for all defenses on every down.


But perhaps you would prefer to compare Barkley to Blair Thomas or Ron Brown because they went #2 overall and the Giants have the second pick in the draft.


It's a silly comparison. I for one laughed, on twitter, at an nfl draft publication that said Trent Richardson was the next Adrian Peterson. I called it...that he would be a bust. And here's the difference, and why I didn't like Richardson and I love Barkley: Richardson had plenty of big runs that were almost exclusively due to enormous holes that the best OL in the country were creating for him. He clearly benefitted from not just a good, but absolute dominance from his O-line and the Alabama defense...as we know, a dominant defense greatly helps your run game as the opponent's defense wears down by having to be on the field a lot more. And when they didn't have to deal with Richardson, they had to try to bring down Eddie Lacy.

Richardson didn't show me any great burst or lateral agility and quickness. He was a pretty tough runner for college, and that didn't translate to the NFL where everyone else is big and tough.

Barkley is different. He HAS the explosive burst, the lateral agility and quickness, he also has much better hands as a receiver, is a better blocker, and unlike Richardson, he didn't benefit from a dominant offensive line. In fact, the Penn State O-line wasn't very good, and defenses really loaded the box against Barkley.

They are completely different RB prospects and I do not lavish praise on RB prospects like this...like, ever.
Giants  
jc in c-ville : 1/9/2018 4:24 pm : link
Picking either a QB or OT in the first round with the second anything from OL, DL or RB is how I see this shaking out.

Barkley may be a great RB but the drop-off between him and some of the other suspects, at the NFL level.
* Is not that severe*  
jc in c-ville : 1/9/2018 4:24 pm : link
.
Hoping  
JINTin Adirondacks : 1/9/2018 4:36 pm : link
Michel is still around for our 2nd round pick. His game will translate real well.
I'm sure it's been said 1,000 times  
RobCarpenter : 1/9/2018 5:19 pm : link
You take BPA. And to me that's Barkley. You don't win Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year - two years in a row -- unless you have performed at a high level.

He's a special player. You don't believe me? Watch this clip -- especially when he stops on a dime on the sideline.

Also, just because past Penn State RBs haven't done well in the Pros doesn't mean anything.
Barkley 44-yard run vs Iowa - ( New Window )
No.  
Toastt34 : 1/9/2018 5:24 pm : link
You can find a great RB much easier than you can find a great QB at the top of Round 2.
Zepp  
joeinpa : 1/9/2018 5:46 pm : link
When you State a reasonable position as a "no brainer" when there are obviously many other just as reasonable options, you immediately lose credibility in regard to your opinion
RE: No.  
Zepp : 1/9/2018 6:01 pm : link
In comment 13780655 Toastt34 said:
Quote:
You can find a great RB much easier than you can find a great QB at the top of Round 2.


I could say the same thing about QB. And all things being equal Barkley is more of a guarantee than those QBs.
RE: If not for the suspension  
ajr2456 : 1/9/2018 6:05 pm : link
In comment 13780313 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the guy the Cowboys took #4 overall would have led the league in rushing his first 2 seasons in the league. Barkley is a much better prospect than Elliott was coming out.


and they would probably be a better team with a better outlook if they took Ramsey
RE: RE: RE: everyone always talks about those superbowl winning...  
arcarsenal : 1/9/2018 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13780581 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 13780463 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13780439 BronxBombers said:


Quote:


runningbacks...take a look at the 10 best rb's ever, most have never sniffed a superbowl ring.



The player is less important than the team productivity.

Look at the top 10 rushing teams this year - 9 of them made the playoffs.

You need to run the football.



Giants were 31st running the ball when they won the SB in 2011 and Packers were 32 nd when they won. So, I think there lots of different ways to win.


The 2011 Giants were fairly anomalous for a variety of reasons. It's also worth noting that they ran for nearly 200 yards against ATL in the Wild Card game and over 110 in the SB against NE.

There's a reason why they were a maddeningly inconsistent 9-win regular season team that lost to teams like the Rex Grossman-led Redskins.

GB ran for 128 yards in their WC game in their SB year and 12 in the NFCC game... oh, and they also had the best QB on the planet.

Of course there are always going to be exceptions and teams that win in different ways. But more often than not, teams that win in this league can run the football.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/9/2018 6:15 pm : link
That should obviously be 120, not 12.
'Barkley is a No-Brainer'...  
Torrag : 1/9/2018 10:42 pm : link
...you are a no brainer.
RE: Giants  
Eman11 : 1/9/2018 11:44 pm : link
In comment 13780592 jc in c-ville said:
Quote:
Picking either a QB or OT in the first round with the second anything from OL, DL or RB is how I see this shaking out.

Barkley may be a great RB but the drop-off between him and some of the other suspects, at the NFL level.


Look closer. There's not an OT in this draft worthy of the #2 pick.

If they don't love one of the QBs, trading back to 5 with Denver is the smart play. Get their next year's #1, this year's #2 or 3, and whatever else you can get.

Grab either Nelson, Fitzpatrick or Chubb at 5.
Yeah they could get a QB in the 2nd round  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2018 10:01 am : link
Unfortunately the odds of said QB becoming a good starting QB are extremely slim. The only good 2nd round QB's in football are Brees, Garoppolo, Dalton, and Carr. Brees was the first pick of the 2nd round because of his height. The jury is still out on Garoppolo and is Carr really a franchise QB? I will not list every 2nd round QB since Brees but for every Brees there are dozens of Geno Smith's, Hackenberg's, Kizer, Osweiler, Kaepernick, Clausen, White, Bromm, Henne, Kolb, Beck, Stanton, etc.
This is the strongest RB draft in years  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2018 10:04 am : link
IMO the Giants would be making a huge mistake passing on a QB at 2 when they could get their featured back in the 2nd or 3rd round.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/10/2018 11:58 am : link
Bo Scarborough just declared.

Reminds me a lot of Brandon Jacobs.

Another guy to keep an eye on in the draft. He'd be a great complement to Wayne Gallman, IMO
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner