looked like the Yanks dodged a bullet on that one...
Still don't understand this line of thinking. Did anyone go beyond the ERA+ when looking at the guy? The Astros and Yankees aren't dumb... he's a very good pitcher.
Fangraphs the other day wrote a very interesting article on Cole, that had me about face a bit on the potential of adding him.
Quote:
The first thing you have to understand about Gerrit Cole is that he is extremely intelligent, Benedict said. I appreciate the analytics you discussed. But to a highly intelligent player, analytics should provide inspiration. They are very important because of that inspiration, and provide a basis for the learning process.
Scherzer is a good comp because he, too, is exceptionally intelligent. He went through learning curves. He was traded by Arizona despite the fact that many felt he had the best stuff in his draft, but he was a tough sign because of Scott Boras. He had a couple of seasons that did not meet his expectations, but he learned new pitches; he learned the fine art of creating deception; he improved his conditioning and preparation. He is now a legitimate superstar whose performance seems to be constantly pointing upwards. Scherzer was 36-35 going into his age-27 season. He is 105-40 since.
Assuming that everything we hear about Torres, Florial, and Sheffield being off the table are true, it would have been interesting to see what kind of deal would have formed.
Very curious to see the return for Pittsburgh. Would have to assume Tucker/Whitley are centerpieceing this deal. Cole - ( New Window )
looked like the Yanks dodged a bullet on that one...
Still don't understand this line of thinking. Did anyone go beyond the ERA+ when looking at the guy? The Astros and Yankees aren't dumb... he's a very good pitcher.
Ace material. People are falling in love with prospects who haven't thrown one pitch in the majors.
and said they didn't want him are going to look like fools when he has a nice season for the loaded Astros. He would've helped the Yanks big time but I guess the price tag was too large.
I do believe Cole has become underrated by fans but he's not undervalued. It's a good argument that he will improve, and I'm sure he will, but the prospects the Yanks would of had to give up would of been too much. Andujar is going to flat out rake. He has potential to have been the best player in the deal. On top of him the Yanks would of had to throw in Adams, plus most likely. It's just too much to give up for a luxury piece.
Correa and Altuve are legit superstars, and I'll allow that Springer might maintain his production from last year. You still had:
Josh Reddick 2017 .314/.363/.489 vs .264/.323/.429 career
Marwin Gonzalez 2017 .303/.377/.530 vs .268/.317/.421 career
Jake Marisnick 2917 .243/.319/.496 vs. .228/.278/.369 career
Charlie Morton 2017 3.63 ERA/1.193 WHIP vs. 4.41/1.406 career
Brad Peacock 2017 3.00 ERA/1.189 WHIP vs. 4.05/1.347 career
Some of those guys are gonna regress, as might a 34 year old McCann.
11:43am: Astros GM Jeff Luhnow says theres nothing imminent in any of the teams trade talks, per Jake Kaplan of the Houston Chronicle (Twitter link). Though front offices typically keep tight lips, at least publicly, that seems to be a fairly notable indication that this prospective deal has yet to be fully agreed to.
11:26am: Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports tweets that his sources tell him the deal isnt fully complete. Also, Cole has yet to be notified that hes on the move.
Maybe Cashman is attempting to get back in on Cole.
for being very difficult to deal with and as leaky as the Titanic, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were putting this out there before the Astros finalized anything.
for being very difficult to deal with and as leaky as the Titanic, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were putting this out there before the Astros finalized anything.
Ace material. People are falling in love with prospects who haven't thrown one pitch in the majors.
I have no problem dealing prospects. I was all for the Sony Gray trade. too many flags on Cole. Pitching in a pitcher's park he gave up 31 HR's last year. Now that was way above his career norm, however when a pitcher is coming off a lousy year you don't pay full price. The Pirates were asking for our top prospects.
To be fair he has had some good years in the last couple years. His year at age 24 was far and away better than any year scherzer or Lee had before Turing 27. Potential is their. Still hope the Yanks don't go after him if the Astor deal falls through.
Remember when the Yanks were on the verge of acquiring Cole and then they weren't? Now the Astros are on the verge and yet they aren't. Sounds like the Pirates are doing the right thing and trying to get interested teams to up the ante.
Seems like a lot of BBIers are still holding it against Cole because he changed his mind as a 17 yr. old and went to college instead of signing with the Yanks.
But yeah, I'm still irritated that he and his father lied to Cashman about being open to negotiations. If they had told Cashman before the draft "Look, I'm going to UCLA no matter how much money you offer me. Don't draft me.", no one would have had any problem with it.
But that's not how it worked out. They said that, despite the UCLA commitment, they would be willing to negotiate. That's why Cashman rolled the dice and drafted him......and then the Coles wouldn't even return Cashman's calls. So, yeah, fuck that guy.
And, in any case, he's been far from a smashing success story in Pittsburgh despite working with one of the most respected pitching coaches in the business, Ray Searage.
Sure he isn't Kershaw but his numbers thus far have been very good prior to last season.
2013 - 2.91 FIP
2014 - 3.23 FIP
2015 - 2.66 FIP
2016 - 3.33 FIP
2017 - 4.08 FIP
RE: I don't care that he didn't sign with the Yankees
But yeah, I'm still irritated that he and his father lied to Cashman about being open to negotiations. If they had told Cashman before the draft "Look, I'm going to UCLA no matter how much money you offer me. Don't draft me.", no one would have had any problem with it.
But that's not how it worked out. They said that, despite the UCLA commitment, they would be willing to negotiate. That's why Cashman rolled the dice and drafted him......and then the Coles wouldn't even return Cashman's calls. So, yeah, fuck that guy.
Let me ask you this, Greg, why do you think they did that? Do you really think they "lied" to the Yankees? That they had no intention of negotiating with the Yankees, but merely wanted to be able to say they were the Yankees first round pick? Isn't possible something changed between the time they said they would be open to negotiations and the time Cole was drafted? Maybe it was something UCLA did to sweeten that choice, maybe it was something personal in his life, or maybe it was just a realization he came to about what was best for him. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and not take it personally.
It's an interesting game of poker going on, though...
I wonder what the actual deal on the table is. The rumors seem to vary between the Yankees are offering Frazier, Adams, and Andujar, but Pirates want more and the Yankees are offering Frazier, Adams, and a mid-level prospect, but the Pirates want Andujar. Is Andujar the chip that's holding up the deal or one of the big three (Torres, Florial, Sheffield)?
Lots of bluffing going on in the form of misinformation.
RE: RE: I don't care that he didn't sign with the Yankees
Let me ask you this, Greg, why do you think they did that? Do you really think they "lied" to the Yankees? That they had no intention of negotiating with the Yankees, but merely wanted to be able to say they were the Yankees first round pick? Isn't possible something changed between the time they said they would be open to negotiations and the time Cole was drafted? Maybe it was something UCLA did to sweeten that choice, maybe it was something personal in his life, or maybe it was just a realization he came to about what was best for him. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and not take it personally.
Milton, just a SWAG, but I'd bet his old man wanted him to go to college and college only, something to fall back on if baseball didn't work out. The kid was enticed by the Yankees as a #1 pick. The old man didn't want a huge argument so he agreed to the "talks" to keep things quiet at home and then was able to talk the kid into UCLA in the meantime saying that he would be drafted later in the future if his college career went well.
Still don't understand this line of thinking. Did anyone go beyond the ERA+ when looking at the guy? The Astros and Yankees aren't dumb... he's a very good pitcher.
Fangraphs the other day wrote a very interesting article on Cole, that had me about face a bit on the potential of adding him.
Scherzer is a good comp because he, too, is exceptionally intelligent. He went through learning curves. He was traded by Arizona despite the fact that many felt he had the best stuff in his draft, but he was a tough sign because of Scott Boras. He had a couple of seasons that did not meet his expectations, but he learned new pitches; he learned the fine art of creating deception; he improved his conditioning and preparation. He is now a legitimate superstar whose performance seems to be constantly pointing upwards. Scherzer was 36-35 going into his age-27 season. He is 105-40 since.
Assuming that everything we hear about Torres, Florial, and Sheffield being off the table are true, it would have been interesting to see what kind of deal would have formed.
Very curious to see the return for Pittsburgh. Would have to assume Tucker/Whitley are centerpieceing this deal.
Cole - ( New Window )
Quote:
looked like the Yanks dodged a bullet on that one...
Still don't understand this line of thinking. Did anyone go beyond the ERA+ when looking at the guy? The Astros and Yankees aren't dumb... he's a very good pitcher.
Actually, they will look like geniuses when he has a 5+ ERA in the AL.
Keuchel is a FA after the season and Verlander is 36 and is owed $20M each of the next two seasons. Their bullpen was middle of the pack too.
not sure they're going to be a dynasty.
They'll be good this year again though.
Well that settles it. Yankees made a huge mistake.
Josh Reddick 2017 .314/.363/.489 vs .264/.323/.429 career
Marwin Gonzalez 2017 .303/.377/.530 vs .268/.317/.421 career
Jake Marisnick 2917 .243/.319/.496 vs. .228/.278/.369 career
Charlie Morton 2017 3.63 ERA/1.193 WHIP vs. 4.41/1.406 career
Brad Peacock 2017 3.00 ERA/1.189 WHIP vs. 4.05/1.347 career
Some of those guys are gonna regress, as might a 34 year old McCann.
11:26am: Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports tweets that his sources tell him the deal isnt fully complete. Also, Cole has yet to be notified that hes on the move.
Maybe Cashman is attempting to get back in on Cole.
Verified account
@JeffPassan
3m3 minutes ago
More
Source: "No deal" for Gerrit Cole to Houston. "False rumor."
As is the case with these things, talks could pick back up quickly. For now, though, Gerrit Cole to Houston is not happening.
Don't unpack just yet, Clint.
Exactly.
Ace material. People are falling in love with prospects who haven't thrown one pitch in the majors.
I have no problem dealing prospects. I was all for the Sony Gray trade. too many flags on Cole. Pitching in a pitcher's park he gave up 31 HR's last year. Now that was way above his career norm, however when a pitcher is coming off a lousy year you don't pay full price. The Pirates were asking for our top prospects.
Ken Rosenthal does not expect Houston to give up either of them.
Odds are against him, though.
Quote:
then they did very well in this deal. I am a huge fan of Whitley and he has the potential to be a TOR SP.
Ken Rosenthal does not expect Houston to give up either of them.
That makes more sense. A package of Fisher and Paulino is more realistic.
BR: Scott Polacek - ( New Window )
The article is a rehash of the tweets posted above.
Link - ( New Window )
Seems like a lot of BBIers are still holding it against Cole because he changed his mind as a 17 yr. old and went to college instead of signing with the Yanks.
But that's not how it worked out. They said that, despite the UCLA commitment, they would be willing to negotiate. That's why Cashman rolled the dice and drafted him......and then the Coles wouldn't even return Cashman's calls. So, yeah, fuck that guy.
And, in any case, he's been far from a smashing success story in Pittsburgh despite working with one of the most respected pitching coaches in the business, Ray Searage.
Link - ( New Window )
2013 - 2.91 FIP
2014 - 3.23 FIP
2015 - 2.66 FIP
2016 - 3.33 FIP
2017 - 4.08 FIP
But that's not how it worked out. They said that, despite the UCLA commitment, they would be willing to negotiate. That's why Cashman rolled the dice and drafted him......and then the Coles wouldn't even return Cashman's calls. So, yeah, fuck that guy.
Let me ask you this, Greg, why do you think they did that? Do you really think they "lied" to the Yankees? That they had no intention of negotiating with the Yankees, but merely wanted to be able to say they were the Yankees first round pick? Isn't possible something changed between the time they said they would be open to negotiations and the time Cole was drafted? Maybe it was something UCLA did to sweeten that choice, maybe it was something personal in his life, or maybe it was just a realization he came to about what was best for him. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and not take it personally.
Lots of bluffing going on in the form of misinformation.
Let me ask you this, Greg, why do you think they did that? Do you really think they "lied" to the Yankees? That they had no intention of negotiating with the Yankees, but merely wanted to be able to say they were the Yankees first round pick? Isn't possible something changed between the time they said they would be open to negotiations and the time Cole was drafted? Maybe it was something UCLA did to sweeten that choice, maybe it was something personal in his life, or maybe it was just a realization he came to about what was best for him. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and not take it personally.
Milton, just a SWAG, but I'd bet his old man wanted him to go to college and college only, something to fall back on if baseball didn't work out. The kid was enticed by the Yankees as a #1 pick. The old man didn't want a huge argument so he agreed to the "talks" to keep things quiet at home and then was able to talk the kid into UCLA in the meantime saying that he would be drafted later in the future if his college career went well.