Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

To keep Eli, or not to keep Eli, that is the question.....

Doomster : 1/10/2018 3:53 pm
Should the Giants extend/resign Eli after the 2019 season?

He will be 39 years old, and his physical skills will have diminished two more years....

Do you think the Giants can win the SB in 2018? In 2019?

If your answer is no to these questions, than why should Eli be on this team next year? To be a 22.2M cap tutor?

There are too many missing pieces for this team to be in the SB either of the next two years.....and if we are not going to be there, and then not extend Eli, why should he be here?

We would be better off, utilizing the 10M we save in each of the next two seasons, towards rebuilding this team....Either release him or try and trade him(with his blessing).....

Do I think Eli is done? No, I think he can still play at a high level, under the right conditions.....having a defense that can protect leads.....having an OL that can pass block AND run block......and have enough weapons, to utilze them.....and to have an offensive minded coach, that doesn't hold him back......He will not have all that with the Giants.....

It's sad, the way this organization has been run the last 6 years, that it has come to this....

If Eli was still the Eli of 2011, that would make a huge difference.....but he is not that qb anymore.....there was a time, when Eli had the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter, and you just knew he would somehow pull out a win.....I haven't felt that way, in many seasons.....

It's time to move on......

Oh joy, another Eli post  
HoodieGelo : 1/10/2018 3:56 pm : link
.
I'm as big an Eli fan on BBI as anyone  
Section331 : 1/10/2018 4:00 pm : link
(other than Britt, of course!), but no way should we extend him after his contract is up. The larger question is do we draft his replacement in June?

I think Eli has a few more good years left in him, but 39 is a good age to go out. If he wants to play elsewhere at that point, I wouldn't blame him, but the Giants should be prepared to move on.
...  
BleedBlue : 1/10/2018 4:02 pm : link
trade back, eli gets another 2 years.

if you trade back to 5-10 and mayfield is there and you believe he is the guy....take him. if not take nelson/fitzpatrick/barkley/chubb/allen

id probably take a non QB and give webb another year...if you get an 2019 first rounder in the move back you can use both first rounders next year to move up for a QB if you arent sold on webb or feel he hasnt developed well.


thats my opinion
I think keep him for another year.  
Motley Two : 1/10/2018 4:03 pm : link
I have no interest in seeing Webb or a rookie trying to QB this team with all of it's deficiencies while a new GM & Coach are trying to get established and rebuild this team.

I think it's more beneficial to the rest of the roster and the coaches to have a vet at QB at this time.

Eli - Will he restructure?  
Giantslifer : 1/10/2018 4:04 pm : link
If Eli will restructure his contract to reduce cap hit etc... keep him and let him train replacement.

If NOT- cut/trade him IMMEDIATELY.
most good QBs need help around them in order to succeed  
djm : 1/10/2018 4:08 pm : link
some of the greats can elevate an offense. Some QBs can come in and take a piece of shit offense and turn it into something better. Qbs are funny. Offenses are complex. Deshawn Watson and the Texans come to mind. Would Eli Manning have done to the Texans offense what Watson did this season? Unlikely. Let's say no for the sake of argument. Does that mean Watson is a better QB than Eli right now? Maybe...probably...but does Watson have the same career that Eli had? Maybe...maybe not. Can Watson be as lethal as Eli Manning (38) in a big game next January? I doubt it.

So many moving parts. So many variables. Eli is a weird player to evaluate. HE's had a weird career. But maybe it's not that weird when you examine things closely. Eli just needs a RUNNING GAME! Every single year he has played, Eli's offense was good to great when the team was able to run the ball. He lives off the play action and getting the ball DOWNFIELD. He's not a dink and dunk guy. He's not a WC offense guy. What Reese and McAdoo did here was criminal and I don't care about Eli's legacy...i'm just talking about simple football logic. They took a square peg and jammed it into a round hole. Presto...both fired. I blame them both. I blame Reese for orchestrating things and McAdoo for going along with it and not speaking up.

What I do know is in 2016 Eli Manning put up decent stats and won 11 games. The offense wasn't very good but Eli's numbers weren't bad and the team won. That tells me that Eli still had some sizzle in his game or at least enough sizzle to win with. The offense didn't help Eli as much as Eli helped the offense, in my view. In 2017 things got worse. Was Eli part of the problem this year? Probably. It's fair to say everyone on this offense had a hand in this shit show. But can ELi be part of the solution in 2018? I think he can and even if you think Eli's play slipped the last 2 years, even in a vacuum, it's fair to believe his play can improve, even at 38 years old.

If Eli's numbers the last two years were dreadfully bad that would be one thing. If the eye test told you that Eli couldn't hit WRs anymore or never stepped up into the pocket anymore, EVER, i'd say fine, he's shot. But Eli is still showing signs of life. IT'S IN THERE. I promise you...give the guy a legit running game and he will deliver.

The good thing is the Giants don't have to do anything with Eli. They don't have to cut or trade the guy and they can still draft his replacement in April.
RE: most good QBs need help around them in order to succeed  
djstat : 1/10/2018 4:12 pm : link
In comment 13781949 djm said:
Quote:
some of the greats can elevate an offense. Some QBs can come in and take a piece of shit offense and turn it into something better. Qbs are funny. Offenses are complex. Deshawn Watson and the Texans come to mind. Would Eli Manning have done to the Texans offense what Watson did this season? Unlikely. Let's say no for the sake of argument. Does that mean Watson is a better QB than Eli right now? Maybe...probably...but does Watson have the same career that Eli had? Maybe...maybe not. Can Watson be as lethal as Eli Manning (38) in a big game next January? I doubt it.

So many moving parts. So many variables. Eli is a weird player to evaluate. HE's had a weird career. But maybe it's not that weird when you examine things closely. Eli just needs a RUNNING GAME! Every single year he has played, Eli's offense was good to great when the team was able to run the ball. He lives off the play action and getting the ball DOWNFIELD. He's not a dink and dunk guy. He's not a WC offense guy. What Reese and McAdoo did here was criminal and I don't care about Eli's legacy...i'm just talking about simple football logic. They took a square peg and jammed it into a round hole. Presto...both fired. I blame them both. I blame Reese for orchestrating things and McAdoo for going along with it and not speaking up.

What I do know is in 2016 Eli Manning put up decent stats and won 11 games. The offense wasn't very good but Eli's numbers weren't bad and the team won. That tells me that Eli still had some sizzle in his game or at least enough sizzle to win with. The offense didn't help Eli as much as Eli helped the offense, in my view. In 2017 things got worse. Was Eli part of the problem this year? Probably. It's fair to say everyone on this offense had a hand in this shit show. But can ELi be part of the solution in 2018? I think he can and even if you think Eli's play slipped the last 2 years, even in a vacuum, it's fair to believe his play can improve, even at 38 years old.

If Eli's numbers the last two years were dreadfully bad that would be one thing. If the eye test told you that Eli couldn't hit WRs anymore or never stepped up into the pocket anymore, EVER, i'd say fine, he's shot. But Eli is still showing signs of life. IT'S IN THERE. I promise you...give the guy a legit running game and he will deliver.

The good thing is the Giants don't have to do anything with Eli. They don't have to cut or trade the guy and they can still draft his replacement in April.
Agreed. All QB's need help. Brady has had help. Peyton and Brees have help. Ben has help. Montana and Young had help. Aikman had the Triplets...
RE: Eli - Will he restructure?  
djstat : 1/10/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13781935 Giantslifer said:
Quote:
If Eli will restructure his contract to reduce cap hit etc... keep him and let him train replacement.

If NOT- cut/trade him IMMEDIATELY.
1. He has a no trade clause. 2. Why restructure him? that pushes his cap hit into the future. If you mean PAYCUT, expect him to say NO. Giants don't need Eli to restructure. Cap situation is fine.
C'mon already!!!!  
optimist : 1/10/2018 4:21 pm : link
If the OL is NOT fixed then offering a sacrificial lamb in the form of a rookie Qb is going to satisfy the gods????

That's a good way to set the Giants back three more years.

No matter how you look at it, Sensibly Eli is the best bet if the OL is NOT fixed. he can get sacked and hopefully not get hurt'

Should. by some strange alignment of the stars, the OL get fixed then the rookie QB NEEDS some sideline time to see the different ways he can be dismembered and how to protect himself from being maimed....OR even learn how to run a team and how to study!!!!

Now was that so hard?
It's simple  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2018 4:37 pm : link
Keep Eli for another season. Draft either Darnold or Allen and let them sit and learn behind Eli for a year to see how a franchise QB must prepare day in and day out. If Eli plays well they can re-evaluate at the end of next season to see where Allen/Darnold are in their development. If they need more seasoning then Eli could be brought back to compete for the starting job. If the Giants get rid of Eli they will need to bring in a veteran to start for a year. Josh McCown would probably be my choice among the realistic options.
I'd be surprised if he plays more than 1  
MotownGIANTS : 1/10/2018 4:46 pm : link
more yr here. The upcoming season is it barring a MAJOR paycut.
2 years is a lifetime in the NFL  
ron mexico : 1/10/2018 4:48 pm : link
Crazy to even discuss that now
Also winning the SB is ofcourse the ultimate goal  
ron mexico : 1/10/2018 4:50 pm : link
But its not the only goal

They want to put a quality product on the field week in week out
Just  
Reb8thVA : 1/10/2018 4:51 pm : link
Stop!
Why does Eli want to stay  
louinma : 1/10/2018 4:52 pm : link
At his age does he want any part of a rebuilding effort !!

He wants out to a contender
RE: Why does Eli want to stay  
ron mexico : 1/10/2018 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13782042 louinma said:
Quote:
At his age does he want any part of a rebuilding effort !!

He wants out to a contender


He has stated he want to stay and retire a giant.

He already has the hardware, maybe his legacy with the giants and not uprroting his family us more important to him then becoming a mercenary in the hunt for another ring.
I am rooting for Eli to be the guy for a few years  
Go Terps : 1/10/2018 5:19 pm : link
But what we root for isn't always the right move.

The right move is to trade Eli and draft our next quarterback. IMO that should be Lamar Jackson.
RE: RE: Eli - Will he restructure?  
Giantslifer : 1/10/2018 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13781959 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 13781935 Giantslifer said:


Quote:


If Eli will restructure his contract to reduce cap hit etc... keep him and let him train replacement.

If NOT- cut/trade him IMMEDIATELY.

1. He has a no trade clause. 2. Why restructure him? that pushes his cap hit into the future. If you mean PAYCUT, expect him to say NO. Giants don't need Eli to restructure. Cap situation is fine.

Restructure means change for good of Giants, cap person can figure that out. If Eli is willing to work out positive solution - keep him. If he says NO cut/trade him. Example - reduce pay by 7-10 MM sign FA or trade for OL/DL/LB
Eli is expendable
RE: RE: RE: Eli - Will he restructure?  
Diver_Down : 1/10/2018 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13782101 Giantslifer said:
Quote:
In comment 13781959 djstat said:


Quote:


In comment 13781935 Giantslifer said:


Quote:


If Eli will restructure his contract to reduce cap hit etc... keep him and let him train replacement.

If NOT- cut/trade him IMMEDIATELY.

1. He has a no trade clause. 2. Why restructure him? that pushes his cap hit into the future. If you mean PAYCUT, expect him to say NO. Giants don't need Eli to restructure. Cap situation is fine.


Restructure means change for good of Giants, cap person can figure that out. If Eli is willing to work out positive solution - keep him. If he says NO cut/trade him. Example - reduce pay by 7-10 MM sign FA or trade for OL/DL/LB
Eli is expendable


These replies are hard to comprehend. In your example, you would like Eli to reduce his pay by 7-10M. Eli has a salary of $10.5M next season. So to apply your reasoning, you would like Eli to play for as much as $3.5M or as little as $500K. Are you dumb?
On March 16th.  
Doomster : 1/10/2018 9:37 pm : link
Eli's salary increases to 17M, and his cap hit is 22M.....

RE: On March 16th.  
Diver_Down : 1/10/2018 10:01 pm : link
In comment 13782285 Doomster said:
Quote:
Eli's salary increases to 17M, and his cap hit is 22M.....


No it doesn't. His salary is his salary. He receives a roster bonus on March 16. His salary is independent of workout and roster bonuses.
Eli's Contract - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
DennyInDenville : 1/10/2018 10:13 pm : link
In comment 13781933 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
trade back, eli gets another 2 years.

if you trade back to 5-10 and mayfield is there and you believe he is the guy....take him. if not take nelson/fitzpatrick/barkley/chubb/allen

id probably take a non QB and give webb another year...if you get an 2019 first rounder in the move back you can use both first rounders next year to move up for a QB if you arent sold on webb or feel he hasnt developed well.


thats my opinion

Great opinion. I agree
Eli needs to siphon Giants money  
B in ALB : 1/10/2018 10:18 pm : link
thru his charitable organizations or create a new foundation to do so. Seems to work for another certain qb who I won't bother naming on an anonymous message board (ahem, cough cough, qb Tom Brady of the New England Patriots of the NFL professional football league based in the united states).
RE: ...  
Peppers : 1/10/2018 10:28 pm : link
In comment 13781933 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
trade back, eli gets another 2 years.

if you trade back to 5-10 and mayfield is there and you believe he is the guy....take him. if not take nelson/fitzpatrick/barkley/chubb/allen

id probably take a non QB and give webb another year...if you get an 2019 first rounder in the move back you can use both first rounders next year to move up for a QB if you arent sold on webb or feel he hasnt developed well.


thats my opinion


Thats a great idea on the surface but once you see the DL talent coming out next year I think you'll change your mind.

The way I look at it ...  
Manny in CA : 1/11/2018 1:58 am : link

What do Carson Wentz, Jeff Goff and Dak Prescott have in common - the all enjoy playing with teams whose offensive line rankings are in the best five in the NFL ...

Wentz - Eagles #1; Prescott - Cowpukes #3; Goff - Rams #4.

Who toils with the worst Offensive line in the NFL - Eli Manning

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-week-10-farmer-20171111-story.html

This year, Prescott, who has looked like a "walk on water" type QB has regressed to "very ordinary" as a result of not only losing RB Zeke Elliott but more importantly losing Pro Bowlers Zack Martin, Tyron Smith and La'el Collins for extended times.

On the old side of the coin, look at what "has been" Nick Foles is doing behind that great O-line (now that Wentz is on IR) - Amazing huh ?

Come on, gentleman we have a GOLDEN opportunity to "make hay while the sun shines" picking #2 overall - do what we've all been screamin' and yellin' for this team to do for a long time FIX the damn Offensive Line.

We all know Eli's near the end of the line, but so is 40 year old Tom Brady and 39 year old Drew Brees - who are on their way to meeting in Super Bowl 52, (Eli's 3 and 4 years younger)

If Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Joe Namath and Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl, "ole Eli" can win at least one more with a top tier O-line (and Davis Webb a bunch more when he takes over).



Its not even a question...  
Zepp : 1/11/2018 2:18 am : link
He can still play. And to answer your question...add Barkley, fix the oline and this team is a playoff contender. Guaranteed.
I stopped reading after...  
Milton : 1/11/2018 4:44 am : link
Quote:
If your answer is no to these questions
...because my answer was yes.
p.s.--But I still the Giants should draft Rosen #2 overall!
Keep Eli  
Glover : 1/11/2018 7:29 am : link
And Webb, tradw back, load up on Hog Mollies, LBs, and RBs.
Eli is not the Eli he used to be, but its just about impossible to assess what he has left by looking at the past 2 years behind that O line with no run game.
I doubt he'll be extended beyond 2019  
JonC : 1/11/2018 8:29 am : link
and we really won't know much until the #2 pick is announced.
this is not the question  
bc4life : 1/11/2018 9:20 am : link
the real question - how does the O-Line get fixed?

Keep Eli for 2018  
mrvax : 1/11/2018 11:16 am : link
then cut him in 2019. Then start the better of Webb/draft pick. It would be good to have Eli in '18 during this transition.
RE: I am rooting for Eli to be the guy for a few years  
Sect 146 : 1/11/2018 11:49 am : link
In comment 13782078 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But what we root for isn't always the right move.

The right move is to trade Eli and draft our next quarterback. IMO that should be Lamar Jackson.


I'm with ya Terps but why can't we have both as Jackson (or any of the QB's coming out) could use at least a year of learning behind a HOF QB. If Eli bounces back next year you consider keeping for one more (depending on how high the bounce) if he continues to struggle, put in the new guy and start the full rebuild.
Sect  
Go Terps : 1/11/2018 11:52 am : link
The way I see it that's wasting a year of Jackson. I don't think guys benefit from sitting on the bench, and I don't think the team benefits by spending a top pick on a guy that is only going to sit on the bench for a year.

If we draft a quarterback at #2 he should be the guy from day 1.
Francesa mentioned it on Simmons podcast..  
Sean : 1/11/2018 11:55 am : link
when you start making decisions based on sentimentality, thatís when you lose. Chuck Noll learned this the hard way & itís likely the reason Belichick is so ruthless.

I love Eli, but a clean break makes sense right now.
Fair enough Terps  
Sect 146 : 1/11/2018 12:01 pm : link
I guess I am in the camp that a young guy could benefit with a year on the bench, especially someone like Jackson who is not touted as being "NFL" ready by some pundits. I get that it would be a waste of a relatively low cost/high pick but I think if they went Jackson, he may be had in a trade down and it would not be at #2, so would not hurt as much. I get it, and remember that Eli did not last a full year on the bench either so you have a valid point.
RE: Francesa mentioned it on Simmons podcast..  
Go Terps : 1/11/2018 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13782963 Sean said:
Quote:
when you start making decisions based on sentimentality, thatís when you lose. Chuck Noll learned this the hard way & itís likely the reason Belichick is so ruthless.

I love Eli, but a clean break makes sense right now.


Francesa's point regarding sentimentality is a good one. The way to look at this is, "If this were some other team what would you advise them to do?"

In a vacuum, the choice between moving forward with a top QB prospect or an expensive 37 year old in decline is no choice at all.
Oh, come on.....  
Doomster : 1/11/2018 2:12 pm : link
RE: On March 16th.
Diver_Down : 1/10/2018 10:01 pm : link : reply
In comment 13782285 Doomster said:
Quote:
Eli's salary increases to 17M, and his cap hit is 22M.....


No it doesn't. His salary is his salary. He receives a roster bonus on March 16. His salary is independent of workout and roster bonuses.

You and I both know roster bonuses are cute ways of teams manipulating their salary structure.....It's like backending a contract with the ability to cut their losses.....such a case is March 16th.....5M is guaranteed.....that 10.5M is not.....so it makes sense for the Giants to make a decision on Eli before that date.....If the Giants cut him after that date, they lose 5M.....If he stays on the team, he gets `17M, I guess you could call that salary....
With respect for Mr. Francesa, he doesn't know what he's talking about  
Manny in CA : 1/11/2018 7:04 pm : link


It's NOT about being "sentimental" ....

It's all about having the opportunity to fill in the bottomless abyss that
is the Offensive Line which has either been neglected or incompetently addressed ....

It starts with mistakes in the draft -

#1 pick Pugh (who failed at right tackle), moved to left guard and now will probably be released due to a bad back

#2 pick Richburg (who failed at Center) and regressed

#1 pick Flowers (who has failed at Left Tackle); fortunately he is playing better. I hope the Giants move him to Right Guard - the original position that he was drafted for.

Late round pick Bobby Hart flopped at Right Guard and was released.

There is hope for rookies Wheeler and maybe "Biz"

There's a bunch of free agent "guys" playing every day, but none of them are answers (except for maybe Fluker)
Correction ...  
Manny in CA : 1/11/2018 7:10 pm : link

Hart flopped at Right Tackle.
Keeping Eli around slows down the franchise on many fronts  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2018 7:27 pm : link
The offense will not progress with his lack of mobility, declining accuracy and lack of patience to do what it takes to win games. The newly drafted QB will not progress sitting around not getting snaps or playing time. And, most importantly, the team will not build the proper momentum by the end of 2018 to go into hopefully a more successful 2019.

Extending him beyond 2019 is ludicrous. Smart play is to cut him before the draft even starts in May...
Let's not "shoot ourselves in the foot" ...  
Manny in CA : 1/12/2018 2:08 pm : link

Lets face realities, then choose to be strategic -

1. Eli's on the "back nine" (as Reese noted), BUT he still got some championship play left in him (as McAdoo himself observed when he benched him)

2. If we DON'T fix the chaos that is the offensive line, picking a new rookie QB and throwing him into that situation is just plain WRONG, (recall what happened to David Carr when Charley Casserly drafted him at Houston) - Turned a potential HOF type QB into a physical and mental wreck

What we need to do is ...

* DON'T extend Eli, let him play out his contract and say goodby

* Rebuild the Offensive Line THIS year (and see if we can make a serious run)

* IF (with a rebuilt line), OBJ back (and a top tier complimentary receiver), Eli shows that he's done, THAT is when we bring in Davis Webb

Back to the Corner