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Art Stapleton Update after 1st Round interviews

BeckShepEli : 1/11/2018 9:56 am
- Patricia made the best impression
- Shurmur made the biggest leap
- McDaniels just like everyone else no one knows what the Giants are thinking
- Wilks presented himself well but he has a far climb up the mountain with Mara & Tisch to convince them hes not McAdoo Jr

Giants 1st Round - ( New Window )
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. . . .  
jeff57 : 1/11/2018 11:21 am : link
Giants brass continuing with internal conversations today to try to come to a consensus on a primary candidate from the six interviewed, I'm told.
Link - ( New Window )
I think we need  
ryanmkeane : 1/11/2018 11:22 am : link
to move past the Eli debacle. It was obviously a situation that was mishandled by Mara and basically everyone.

That being said - let's move on and hire the best coach possible to lead this team for the next 10-12 years - with or without Eli.
RE: what  
Racer : 1/11/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13782707 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
worries me are Mara's instincts. He comes across as a really smart guy and he seems sincere. But I still can't get around the fact that when push came to shove, in his determination last year, Reese and Ross weren't the problem but Coughlin was. Now a lot of fans felt the same way, but he's supposed to know better, in fact, better than anyone.


Mara's judgement came into question for me when he chose to tell the press that Jerrell Jernigan could play and implied they waited too long to put him on the field. Sample size was embarrasingly small to be saying that with such conviction.

Certainly an indictment of TC not allowing Reese/Ross's 'young ascending' players to grow. Barf.
RE: Why wouldn't he put his trust in him?  
Dankbeerman : 1/11/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13782852 T-Bone said:
Quote:
He helped bring his organization another two championships.


Yes but my feel is that he put the blame on Coughlin, even before 2015, he hid behind him and then Macadoo was Resses pick to try and make knowing how he was going to attack FA with money in his pocket. He was looking for all the credit for the bounce back to prove he could get them right back in the playoffs. Then after his pick in Macadoo was failing he went all in on its Elis fault hoping to buy himself more time.

Mara should have fired everyone when Coughlin went. He somehow fell for Resse more then Coughlin.

Resse got the job thinking Tom was on his last leg and he could go get a coach after 2007. dont feel they were ever o the same page
RE: RE: Why wouldn't he put his trust in him?  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13782994 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
In comment 13782852 T-Bone said:


Quote:


He helped bring his organization another two championships.



Yes but my feel is that he put the blame on Coughlin, even before 2015, he hid behind him and then Macadoo was Resses pick to try and make knowing how he was going to attack FA with money in his pocket. He was looking for all the credit for the bounce back to prove he could get them right back in the playoffs. Then after his pick in Macadoo was failing he went all in on its Elis fault hoping to buy himself more time.

Mara should have fired everyone when Coughlin went. He somehow fell for Resse more then Coughlin.

Resse got the job thinking Tom was on his last leg and he could go get a coach after 2007. dont feel they were ever o the same page


Wow... about the only thing I think I agree with is the first sentence in your second paragraph regarding Mara firing everyone when Coughlin left... and that's only using hindsight.

Other than that, you make A LOT of assumptions in your post. So many that I'm not sure I feel like using time and energy to post what I think you're wrong about to be honest. I'll just say that it's amazing to me how some have made Reese out to be this conniving, deceitful, diabolical man who had to 'hide' behind... 'blame'... and got jobs because Coughlin was supposedly on his last leg (as if he was content to be under Accorsi and in late 2006 thought to himself 'YES! Coughlin should be gone after this year and so NOW'S the time to make my move!').
Racer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/11/2018 12:36 pm : link
I had forgotten about that.
RE: RE: what  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13782971 Racer said:
Quote:
In comment 13782707 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


worries me are Mara's instincts. He comes across as a really smart guy and he seems sincere. But I still can't get around the fact that when push came to shove, in his determination last year, Reese and Ross weren't the problem but Coughlin was. Now a lot of fans felt the same way, but he's supposed to know better, in fact, better than anyone.



Mara's judgement came into question for me when he chose to tell the press that Jerrell Jernigan could play and implied they waited too long to put him on the field. Sample size was embarrasingly small to be saying that with such conviction.

Certainly an indictment of TC not allowing Reese/Ross's 'young ascending' players to grow. Barf.


good post.
RE: RE: We can..  
HomerJones45 : 1/11/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13782794 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13782759 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


complain about a lot of things Reese has done. This isn't one of them:



Quote:


In reality, Reese hung Coughlin out to dry Coughlin's last year by not spending money and have a boat load to use the following year



That's simply not true. The Giants have never been in a significant under-spending situation in a long time. That year we had a lot of money because of expiring contracts and that the NFL significantly bumped the cap up, making more room for everyone - which is why several teams also went on spending sprees, the Jags being a notable one.



Thank you Fats. Reese obviously didn't do a stellar job here his last several seasons but no need to make shit up. What's funny is that it's possible that it was because of Coughlin's inability to let go of aging/non-performing players (Snee and Diehl for instance) that weren't playing up to the contracts they'd received as the reason why the team didn't have a lot of cap space. Which, as GM, Reese must also bear some responsibility as I've repeatedly said that I very much believe that very few decisions were made without both the GM and HC being on board with it.
Funny? What alternatives did Reese provide: lousy draft picks, barren UDFA signings, reaches, tweenders, dumpster dives, has-beens and never was's. In fact, given how fast this franchise turned into the Hindenberg after changing out one guy, it is an open question as to whether that one guy was the only thing keeping the craft in the air at all.

Reese and his front office people sucked and Jawn and Steve Gump listened to his excuses and followed his pointing finger. Erroneous conclusions, stupid bunch of decisions based on erroneous conclusions and then bad execution on top of it. There's a reason this franchise is in position right behind the Cleveland Browns.
Where it will remain  
HomerJones45 : 1/11/2018 12:57 pm : link
as long as Jawn sticks his nose into football operations. It remains to be seen whether Gettlemen is George Young or Andy ("part of the family") Robustelli.
RE: RE: RE: We can..  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13783053 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13782794 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13782759 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


complain about a lot of things Reese has done. This isn't one of them:



Quote:


In reality, Reese hung Coughlin out to dry Coughlin's last year by not spending money and have a boat load to use the following year



That's simply not true. The Giants have never been in a significant under-spending situation in a long time. That year we had a lot of money because of expiring contracts and that the NFL significantly bumped the cap up, making more room for everyone - which is why several teams also went on spending sprees, the Jags being a notable one.



Thank you Fats. Reese obviously didn't do a stellar job here his last several seasons but no need to make shit up. What's funny is that it's possible that it was because of Coughlin's inability to let go of aging/non-performing players (Snee and Diehl for instance) that weren't playing up to the contracts they'd received as the reason why the team didn't have a lot of cap space. Which, as GM, Reese must also bear some responsibility as I've repeatedly said that I very much believe that very few decisions were made without both the GM and HC being on board with it.

Funny? What alternatives did Reese provide: lousy draft picks, barren UDFA signings, reaches, tweenders, dumpster dives, has-beens and never was's. In fact, given how fast this franchise turned into the Hindenberg after changing out one guy, it is an open question as to whether that one guy was the only thing keeping the craft in the air at all.

Reese and his front office people sucked and Jawn and Steve Gump listened to his excuses and followed his pointing finger. Erroneous conclusions, stupid bunch of decisions based on erroneous conclusions and then bad execution on top of it. There's a reason this franchise is in position right behind the Cleveland Browns.


Yeah, yeah yeah.... I'll just repeat what I said again for you here:

"I've repeatedly said that I very much believe that very few decisions were made without both the GM and HC being on board with it."

You want to keep pinning all the failures on Reese and ownership and exonerate Coughlin and his role in those failures feel free. Doesn't make it true though.
TCs "inability to let go" of guys like Snee and Diehl? Seriously??  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 1:08 pm : link
T-Bone, what great talent was kept on the bench to keep them in the lineup? Matt McCants? Eric Herman? Will Beatty? Brandon Moseley? James Brewer? Mitch Petrus? Adam Koets?

Do you know that after Chris Snee, the only OL the Giants drafted over the next FOUR YEARS was Adam Koets?!! Then in 2009 they finally invest a premium pick and it's Will Beatty. Followed the next 3 drafts by Petrus, McCants, Moseley and Brewer. When they reached for Pugh, Richburg and Flowers out of desperation, they ALL played if they were healthy. JFC, Kevin Booth hung on for years because they had nobody else.

Gimme a break. He had no choice but to play those guys until they dropped. There were no replacements.
....  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/11/2018 1:12 pm : link
Does anyone know what Mara's views on Goodell are? That would be telling too.

RE: We can..  
JonC : 1/11/2018 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13782759 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
complain about a lot of things Reese has done. This isn't one of them:



Quote:


In reality, Reese hung Coughlin out to dry Coughlin's last year by not spending money and have a boat load to use the following year



That's simply not true. The Giants have never been in a significant under-spending situation in a long time. That year we had a lot of money because of expiring contracts and that the NFL significantly bumped the cap up, making more room for everyone - which is why several teams also went on spending sprees, the Jags being a notable one.


In hindsight, it appears Reese simply wasn't up to the task of building a solid football team. Paralysis by no analysis, I suspected for a long time.
Francesa has said that Mara is one of Goodell's core supporters  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 1:17 pm : link
along with Kraft, Rooney and until recently Jones.
I'd agree with this take...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/11/2018 1:26 pm : link
Quote:
In hindsight, it appears Reese simply wasn't up to the task of building a solid football team. Paralysis by no analysis, I suspected for a long time.


Reese was a good GM from a cap/contract standpoint, in general from a 1st/2nd round standpoint and from a demeanor standpoint.

His failing ultimately came to bear because he had position groups that were serially inept, either due to ignoring them, like the LB corps, or because his moves failed to address the shortcomings (the OL). Frankly, most GM's have these type of holes, and when they end up causing the team to fail, that's when they are let go.

Reese simply didn't continue to build the team successfully.
RE: Francesa has said that Mara is one of Goodell's core supporters  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/11/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13783095 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
along with Kraft, Rooney and until recently Jones.


If true, that's another red flag in my book. I wonder how much a puppet Goodell is or how much of these self-destructive policies are his (and his staff's) ideas.
RE: TCs  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13783078 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
Gimme a break. He had no choice but to play those guys
until they dropped. There were no replacements.


You're assuming that Coughlin wasn't in favor of playing them until they dropped. Didn't he have input on personnel? You really think he was banging a drum to have Son in Law replaced?

It was like the argument I used to have with people about Kuhn. Do you really think that, had Coughlin gone to Reese and said "Look, you have got to get me someone better than this guy. He's not cutting it but I have to play him because we have no one better", Reese would have just told him to go pound sand?
RE: I'd agree with this take...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13783106 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


In hindsight, it appears Reese simply wasn't up to the task of building a solid football team. Paralysis by no analysis, I suspected for a long time.



Reese was a good GM from a cap/contract standpoint, in general from a 1st/2nd round standpoint and from a demeanor standpoint.

His failing ultimately came to bear because he had position groups that were serially inept, either due to ignoring them, like the LB corps, or because his moves failed to address the shortcomings (the OL). Frankly, most GM's have these type of holes, and when they end up causing the team to fail, that's when they are let go.

Reese simply didn't continue to build the team successfully.


Knowing the had never really had to even concern himself with a QB issue/change, Reese's "shortcomings" are actually amplified. He focused extremely heavy on a few positions (WR, CB, DE) and was completely inept at staffing others (OL, TE, LB, Specials). The problem though is he ultimately still had to pay big free agent dollars to get some of our better players at his areas of focus (Vernon, Jenkins, Harris amongst others)

He really kind of stunk up the place...
Vic  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 1:45 pm : link
Quote:
Do you know that after Chris Snee, the only OL the Giants drafted over the next FOUR YEARS was Adam Koets?!! Then in 2009 they finally invest a premium pick and it's Will Beatty. Followed the next 3 drafts by Petrus, McCants, Moseley and Brewer. When they reached for Pugh, Richburg and Flowers out of desperation, they ALL played if they were healthy. JFC, Kevin Booth hung on for years because they had nobody else.


Well yeah... we had a young, solid line for those next four years and it appears that the team didn't see a need to try and upgrade the depth behind them but for some small additions. Can't say I really blame them for that and I don't recall anyone bitching about it during that time on this site. By the way... the first premium pick they spent (Beatty) was a starting LT on a SB team as well. I also vividly remember a great number of posters on this very site being very excited to have added 'hidden gems' like McCants and Moseley so late in the draft. Don't remember too many people stating those were wasted picks/additions. Again... don't recall hearing too much bitchin when Pugh, Richburg and Flowers (well... maybe a lil with Flowers) were added either.

RE: RE: TCs  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13783116 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13783078 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


Gimme a break. He had no choice but to play those guys
until they dropped. There were no replacements.



You're assuming that Coughlin wasn't in favor of playing them until they dropped. Didn't he have input on personnel? You really think he was banging a drum to have Son in Law replaced?

It was like the argument I used to have with people about Kuhn. Do you really think that, had Coughlin gone to Reese and said "Look, you have got to get me someone better than this guy. He's not cutting it but I have to play him because we have no one better", Reese would have just told him to go pound sand?


And this too!
RE: what  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/11/2018 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13782707 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
worries me are Mara's instincts. He comes across as a really smart guy and he seems sincere. But I still can't get around the fact that when push came to shove, in his determination last year, Reese and Ross weren't the problem but Coughlin was. Now a lot of fans felt the same way, but he's supposed to know better, in fact, better than anyone.


I think you're wrong to believe that he didn't recognize that Reese and Ross were issues. The difference was the GM (and a young one at that) was always going to be on a different timeline than the older head coach. The Giants have had only 3 GMs in nearly 40 years... they're not interested in frequent turnover in that area. They gave Jerry a short leash and he lasted just 1+ more season.

As for Coughlin, any coach with the losing streaks he had during his final three seasons would've lost his job. If people can't understand that by now, I don't know what to say.
the Giants also can't seem to get much longevity out of anyone  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 1:59 pm : link
Shaun O'Hara was done by age 32. Rich Seubert was done at 31. Chris Snee last played at 31 and had been a shell of himself for a few years. Kareem McKenzie, same thing at 32. You can go through the same thing with the receivers - Hakeem Nicks isn't even 30 years old today.

They made plenty of mistakes but the franchise has had abysmal injury luck for quite a long time now.
Greg..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/11/2018 2:03 pm : link
Nicks isn't yet 30
Steve Smith is 32
Manningham is 31
Cruz is 31
Wilson is 26

Heck, Jake Ballard is 30
Kenny Phillips is 31
Terrell Thomas is 33

We didn't have any of those players into their 30's.
RE: RE: TCs  
twostepgiants : 1/11/2018 2:04 pm : link
Yes I do. Gilbride had a recent interview abd said he repeatedly and consistently warned about the OL for years to Reese


In comment 13783116 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13783078 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


Gimme a break. He had no choice but to play those guys
until they dropped. There were no replacements.



You're assuming that Coughlin wasn't in favor of playing them until they dropped. Didn't he have input on personnel? You really think he was banging a drum to have Son in Law replaced?

It was like the argument I used to have with people about Kuhn. Do you really think that, had Coughlin gone to Reese and said "Look, you have got to get me someone better than this guy. He's not cutting it but I have to play him because we have no one better", Reese would have just told him to go pound sand?
RE: RE: RE: TCs  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13783210 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Yes I do. Gilbride had a recent interview abd said he repeatedly and consistently warned about the OL for years to Reese


In comment 13783116 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13783078 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


Gimme a break. He had no choice but to play those guys
until they dropped. There were no replacements.



You're assuming that Coughlin wasn't in favor of playing them until they dropped. Didn't he have input on personnel? You really think he was banging a drum to have Son in Law replaced?

It was like the argument I used to have with people about Kuhn. Do you really think that, had Coughlin gone to Reese and said "Look, you have got to get me someone better than this guy. He's not cutting it but I have to play him because we have no one better", Reese would have just told him to go pound sand?



thank you. I'm sure they never wanted a TE either.

Oh , how could I have forgotten Adrien Robinson, The JPP of TEs.

Ugh
And did Coughlin agree?  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:07 pm : link
And that gives the benefit of the doubt that Gilbride isn't covering his own ass, which I'm not sure he deserves.
RE: RE: RE: TCs  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13783210 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Yes I do. Gilbride had a recent interview abd said he repeatedly and consistently warned about the OL for years to Reese


In comment 13783116 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13783078 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


Gimme a break. He had no choice but to play those guys
until they dropped. There were no replacements.



You're assuming that Coughlin wasn't in favor of playing them until they dropped. Didn't he have input on personnel? You really think he was banging a drum to have Son in Law replaced?

It was like the argument I used to have with people about Kuhn. Do you really think that, had Coughlin gone to Reese and said "Look, you have got to get me someone better than this guy. He's not cutting it but I have to play him because we have no one better", Reese would have just told him to go pound sand?



He said he was assuming that Coughlin... not Gilbride... wasn't in favor of playing them until they dropped. Just because Gilbride felt a certain way (which, honestly, I'm not sure I completely believe) doesn't mean Coughlin did as well... and it's Coughlin's opinion that would carry the most weight.
RE: Greg..  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13783206 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Nicks isn't yet 30
Steve Smith is 32
Manningham is 31
Cruz is 31
Wilson is 26

Heck, Jake Ballard is 30
Kenny Phillips is 31
Terrell Thomas is 33

We didn't have any of those players into their 30's.


Injuries are part of the NFL. I get that. They will always happen. What doesn't seem to happen with as much frequency to other teams are sudden career-ending (or career-drastically-degrading in some cases) injuries. Players on other teams get hurt, have surgery, and generally come back and play for a while longer. So many of the best Giants get hurt....and never play again, or limp along for a little while at a much lower level of play.
RE: RE: Greg..  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13783229 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13783206 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


Nicks isn't yet 30
Steve Smith is 32
Manningham is 31
Cruz is 31
Wilson is 26

Heck, Jake Ballard is 30
Kenny Phillips is 31
Terrell Thomas is 33

We didn't have any of those players into their 30's.



Injuries are part of the NFL. I get that. They will always happen. What doesn't seem to happen with as much frequency to other teams are sudden career-ending (or career-drastically-degrading in some cases) injuries. Players on other teams get hurt, have surgery, and generally come back and play for a while longer. So many of the best Giants get hurt....and never play again, or limp along for a little while at a much lower level of play.


You can even add guys like Chad Jones and David Wilson to this list.
Do we all forget how we  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/11/2018 2:15 pm : link
basically kept Snee during his last minutes on the team, so that he can collect a fat bonus, before he retired?

No favoritism towards his son-in-law right? [sarcasm off]
some of the guys with premature ends to their careers had serious  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 2:35 pm : link
injuries while still in college. Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith come to mind. Tuck too. That's why they were able to get them in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
RE: some of the guys with premature ends to their careers had serious  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/11/2018 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13783285 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
injuries while still in college. Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith come to mind. Tuck too. That's why they were able to get them in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.


Steve Smith was not hurt in college. He was just undersized, and didn't have top end speed.
RE: some of the guys with premature ends to their careers had serious  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13783285 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
injuries while still in college. Terrell Thomas, Steve Smith come to mind. Tuck too. That's why they were able to get them in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.


That's true....but a lot of those guys have long, productive careers anyway. Hell, Thomas Davis had the same injuries as T2, and he's STILL playing (and was in the league before T2 to boot).
Kiwanuka..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/11/2018 2:49 pm : link
fell from a high draft pick due to injuries and I wouldn't call him injury-prone as a Giant. Nicks, Wilson and Cruz weren't known as being injured in college and just had freakishly bad ones in the NFL.

And for Tuck being injured in college, he wasn't sidelined all that much as a pro.
First of all Mara and Tisch  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/11/2018 2:49 pm : link
Are only making these decisions because they inherited the team. They may be smart, quality, and genuinely good men.

Since when are smat people automatically great businessmen. Great at character assememts. And in Mara's Case that he's been around football all his life means pretty much nothing. He's mad some horrible
Mistakes bin the last few years.

Wellington was a great guy and a great owner but he made some horrible management mistakes too.

I don't know enough about who really is the best choice. My hope is that ownership who rushed to hire Gettleman despite the many posters here who wanted to pretend it was some long process let him pretty much make he choice.

You can't have it both ways. If Gettleman the guy please let hire make the Choice. It's obvious TC was not on the same page as Reese. I know that for a fact from the smart Dodge pick from his old ST Coach who told me TC didn't want him drafted or kept.

Now on the plus side all of the top choices seem to be all legit candidates. That they we so sold on McAdoo makes we hope and pray they are listening hard to their new GM.
Ownership..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/11/2018 2:52 pm : link
"rushed" to hire Gettleman?

Jesus Christ.
RE: First of all Mara and Tisch  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/11/2018 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13783313 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Are only making these decisions because they inherited the team. They may be smart, quality, and genuinely good men.

Since when are smat people automatically great businessmen. Great at character assememts. And in Mara's Case that he's been around football all his life means pretty much nothing. He's mad some horrible
Mistakes bin the last few years.

Wellington was a great guy and a great owner but he made some horrible management mistakes too.

I don't know enough about who really is the best choice. My hope is that ownership who rushed to hire Gettleman despite the many posters here who wanted to pretend it was some long process let him pretty much make he choice.

You can't have it both ways. If Gettleman the guy please let hire make the Choice. It's obvious TC was not on the same page as Reese. I know that for a fact from the smart Dodge pick from his old ST Coach who told me TC didn't want him drafted or kept.

Now on the plus side all of the top choices seem to be all legit candidates. That they we so sold on McAdoo makes we hope and pray they are listening hard to their new GM.


TC was upset over a 7th rd pick, that's your proof that they weren't on the same page for the more important picks like 1st and 2nd rounders. Come on!
When They Fired Coughlin and not Reese  
Samiam : 1/11/2018 4:14 pm : link
There's no question Coughlin had to go. His last year coaching here was a horror show. I don't ever remember a good team losing a game the way we lost to Dallas opening day. And, there were other games during the year that we gave away. With that as an aside, I can see why they kept Reese at least that year. And, people conveniently forget that the year after Coughlin was fired, the team won 11 games and went to the playoffs. I understand alot of people will ignore that but it happened.

On the other hand, Reese had 1 huge mistake over a period of time and that mistake was never fixed and pretty much killed this season. He never built an OL. He made assumptions that certain players players would step up and they didn't or they got hurt. If the team had a decent OL, not a great one but decent, this team, warts and all, could have gone to the playoffs. If an OL could have gotten a running game going, this team would score and the defense would not have would not have to get back on the field minutes after another 3 and out. The OL is the foundation of the team and without a foundation, everything crumbles. For me, Reese's draft and free agent signings were an indication that he was either unaware of how they were on thin ice or how stubborn he was.

How the hell do they draft Engram plus when there were good OL available in the draft and how do they only bring in Fluker as a free agent? We had a horrible OL and they draft Biz and sign Wheeler as a UFDA and with Fluker, that's supposed to make a difference? And, Reese was not helped by McAdoo who went with Hart as a starter with Fluker and Jones on the bench.

I have been concerned about Reese for a few seasons but I don't think he should have been fired when Coughlin was let go. But, he made assumptions about the OL that warranted his being let go. I'm assuming it was the Eli benching that triggered a midseason firing but he was a goner anyway.
RE: When They Fired Coughlin and not Reese  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13783465 Samiam said:
Quote:
There's no question Coughlin had to go. His last year coaching here was a horror show. I don't ever remember a good team losing a game the way we lost to Dallas opening day. And, there were other games during the year that we gave away. With that as an aside, I can see why they kept Reese at least that year. And, people conveniently forget that the year after Coughlin was fired, the team won 11 games and went to the playoffs. I understand alot of people will ignore that but it happened.

On the other hand, Reese had 1 huge mistake over a period of time and that mistake was never fixed and pretty much killed this season. He never built an OL. He made assumptions that certain players players would step up and they didn't or they got hurt. If the team had a decent OL, not a great one but decent, this team, warts and all, could have gone to the playoffs. If an OL could have gotten a running game going, this team would score and the defense would not have would not have to get back on the field minutes after another 3 and out. The OL is the foundation of the team and without a foundation, everything crumbles. For me, Reese's draft and free agent signings were an indication that he was either unaware of how they were on thin ice or how stubborn he was.

How the hell do they draft Engram plus when there were good OL available in the draft and how do they only bring in Fluker as a free agent? We had a horrible OL and they draft Biz and sign Wheeler as a UFDA and with Fluker, that's supposed to make a difference? And, Reese was not helped by McAdoo who went with Hart as a starter with Fluker and Jones on the bench.

I have been concerned about Reese for a few seasons but I don't think he should have been fired when Coughlin was let go. But, he made assumptions about the OL that warranted his being let go. I'm assuming it was the Eli benching that triggered a midseason firing but he was a goner anyway.


Excellent post!
IF you don't want another McAdoo  
Rflairr : 1/11/2018 4:55 pm : link
how about staying out of it and letting the GM pick his own coach. You either trust the GM or you don't.

Mara was the one so enamored with hiring McAdoo. Stay out of it this time
Mara.....  
johnboyw : 1/11/2018 5:19 pm : link
Agree 100% with Eric from BBI and I have said this for a couple of years now, John Mara has no instincts. He's too cerebral for his own good. I think he ponders decisions over and over rather than going with his gut and as a result will too often make the wrong call (i. e. Coughlin). Given that this team has a lot of big decisions to make in the next 4 months, he'd better find a way to get it right.
RE: RE: RE: Greg..  
SomeFan : 1/11/2018 5:43 pm : link
In comment 13783235 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13783229 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13783206 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


Nicks isn't yet 30
Steve Smith is 32
Manningham is 31
Cruz is 31
Wilson is 26

Heck, Jake Ballard is 30
Kenny Phillips is 31
Terrell Thomas is 33

We didn't have any of those players into their 30's.



Injuries are part of the NFL. I get that. They will always happen. What doesn't seem to happen with as much frequency to other teams are sudden career-ending (or career-drastically-degrading in some cases) injuries. Players on other teams get hurt, have surgery, and generally come back and play for a while longer. So many of the best Giants get hurt....and never play again, or limp along for a little while at a much lower level of play.



You can even add guys like Chad Jones and David Wilson to this list.


In defense of Reese, I understand that McCadoo was not his first choice as HC. I think Mara was too lazy to do anything but promote the guy in the building alreadyu.
Did Eric Studesville interview?  
SomeFan : 1/11/2018 5:44 pm : link
I thought he was on the list too.
RE: Did Eric Studesville interview?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/11/2018 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13783655 SomeFan said:
Quote:
I thought he was on the list too.


Yes, he was the last interview (on Wednesday).
RE: RE: Did Eric Studesville interview?  
SomeFan : 1/11/2018 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13783665 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13783655 SomeFan said:


Quote:


I thought he was on the list too.



Yes, he was the last interview (on Wednesday).


Thanks Eric, now I see in the article that he would be a "stunner" as the HC hire.
RE: When They Fired Coughlin and not Reese  
HomerJones45 : 1/11/2018 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13783465 Samiam said:
Quote:
There's no question Coughlin had to go. His last year coaching here was a horror show. I don't ever remember a good team losing a game the way we lost to Dallas opening day. And, there were other games during the year that we gave away. With that as an aside, I can see why they kept Reese at least that year. And, people conveniently forget that the year after Coughlin was fired, the team won 11 games and went to the playoffs. I understand alot of people will ignore that but it happened.

On the other hand, Reese had 1 huge mistake over a period of time and that mistake was never fixed and pretty much killed this season. He never built an OL. He made assumptions that certain players players would step up and they didn't or they got hurt. If the team had a decent OL, not a great one but decent, this team, warts and all, could have gone to the playoffs. If an OL could have gotten a running game going, this team would score and the defense would not have would not have to get back on the field minutes after another 3 and out. The OL is the foundation of the team and without a foundation, everything crumbles. For me, Reese's draft and free agent signings were an indication that he was either unaware of how they were on thin ice or how stubborn he was.

How the hell do they draft Engram plus when there were good OL available in the draft and how do they only bring in Fluker as a free agent? We had a horrible OL and they draft Biz and sign Wheeler as a UFDA and with Fluker, that's supposed to make a difference? And, Reese was not helped by McAdoo who went with Hart as a starter with Fluker and Jones on the bench.

I have been concerned about Reese for a few seasons but I don't think he should have been fired when Coughlin was let go. But, he made assumptions about the OL that warranted his being let go. I'm assuming it was the Eli benching that triggered a midseason firing but he was a goner anyway.
You can comfort yourself with those thoughts. They are wrong-headed as events (including a 200 million spend on free agency to rectify the for shit defense Reese put together) have clearly proved. Reese should have got the axe after the 2013 season when three lousy drafts in a row and bungled free agency left the team without a tight end, running back, wideouts or much else.

So yeah, comfort yourself as you sift through the ashes of Reese's Hindenberg. The very fact you think that a team with Preston Parker, Larry Donnell, Daniel Fells, Rashad Jennings, Stevie Brown, Jameel McClain, Cullen Jenkins, Chykie Brown, JD Walton and the rest of luminaries constituted a "good team" shows you really do not know your ass from a two base hit.
RE: RE: When They Fired Coughlin and not Reese  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2018 7:07 pm : link
In comment 13783705 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13783465 Samiam said:


Quote:


There's no question Coughlin had to go. His last year coaching here was a horror show. I don't ever remember a good team losing a game the way we lost to Dallas opening day. And, there were other games during the year that we gave away. With that as an aside, I can see why they kept Reese at least that year. And, people conveniently forget that the year after Coughlin was fired, the team won 11 games and went to the playoffs. I understand alot of people will ignore that but it happened.

On the other hand, Reese had 1 huge mistake over a period of time and that mistake was never fixed and pretty much killed this season. He never built an OL. He made assumptions that certain players players would step up and they didn't or they got hurt. If the team had a decent OL, not a great one but decent, this team, warts and all, could have gone to the playoffs. If an OL could have gotten a running game going, this team would score and the defense would not have would not have to get back on the field minutes after another 3 and out. The OL is the foundation of the team and without a foundation, everything crumbles. For me, Reese's draft and free agent signings were an indication that he was either unaware of how they were on thin ice or how stubborn he was.

How the hell do they draft Engram plus when there were good OL available in the draft and how do they only bring in Fluker as a free agent? We had a horrible OL and they draft Biz and sign Wheeler as a UFDA and with Fluker, that's supposed to make a difference? And, Reese was not helped by McAdoo who went with Hart as a starter with Fluker and Jones on the bench.

I have been concerned about Reese for a few seasons but I don't think he should have been fired when Coughlin was let go. But, he made assumptions about the OL that warranted his being let go. I'm assuming it was the Eli benching that triggered a midseason firing but he was a goner anyway.

You can comfort yourself with those thoughts. They are wrong-headed as events (including a 200 million spend on free agency to rectify the for shit defense Reese put together) have clearly proved. Reese should have got the axe after the 2013 season when three lousy drafts in a row and bungled free agency left the team without a tight end, running back, wideouts or much else.

So yeah, comfort yourself as you sift through the ashes of Reese's Hindenberg. The very fact you think that a team with Preston Parker, Larry Donnell, Daniel Fells, Rashad Jennings, Stevie Brown, Jameel McClain, Cullen Jenkins, Chykie Brown, JD Walton and the rest of luminaries constituted a "good team" shows you really do not know your ass from a two base hit.



Why are you upset today? Have a snickers.
RE: IF you don't want another McAdoo  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2018 7:09 pm : link
In comment 13783550 Rflairr said:
Quote:
how about staying out of it and letting the GM pick his own coach. You either trust the GM or you don't.

Mara was the one so enamored with hiring McAdoo. Stay out of it this time


This GM is the one pushing Wilks. I'm not sure how your statement fits the situation.
RE: RE: RE: When They Fired Coughlin and not Reese  
T-Bone : 1/11/2018 8:14 pm : link
In comment 13783799 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13783705 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13783465 Samiam said:


Quote:


There's no question Coughlin had to go. His last year coaching here was a horror show. I don't ever remember a good team losing a game the way we lost to Dallas opening day. And, there were other games during the year that we gave away. With that as an aside, I can see why they kept Reese at least that year. And, people conveniently forget that the year after Coughlin was fired, the team won 11 games and went to the playoffs. I understand alot of people will ignore that but it happened.

On the other hand, Reese had 1 huge mistake over a period of time and that mistake was never fixed and pretty much killed this season. He never built an OL. He made assumptions that certain players players would step up and they didn't or they got hurt. If the team had a decent OL, not a great one but decent, this team, warts and all, could have gone to the playoffs. If an OL could have gotten a running game going, this team would score and the defense would not have would not have to get back on the field minutes after another 3 and out. The OL is the foundation of the team and without a foundation, everything crumbles. For me, Reese's draft and free agent signings were an indication that he was either unaware of how they were on thin ice or how stubborn he was.

How the hell do they draft Engram plus when there were good OL available in the draft and how do they only bring in Fluker as a free agent? We had a horrible OL and they draft Biz and sign Wheeler as a UFDA and with Fluker, that's supposed to make a difference? And, Reese was not helped by McAdoo who went with Hart as a starter with Fluker and Jones on the bench.

I have been concerned about Reese for a few seasons but I don't think he should have been fired when Coughlin was let go. But, he made assumptions about the OL that warranted his being let go. I'm assuming it was the Eli benching that triggered a midseason firing but he was a goner anyway.

You can comfort yourself with those thoughts. They are wrong-headed as events (including a 200 million spend on free agency to rectify the for shit defense Reese put together) have clearly proved. Reese should have got the axe after the 2013 season when three lousy drafts in a row and bungled free agency left the team without a tight end, running back, wideouts or much else.

So yeah, comfort yourself as you sift through the ashes of Reese's Hindenberg. The very fact you think that a team with Preston Parker, Larry Donnell, Daniel Fells, Rashad Jennings, Stevie Brown, Jameel McClain, Cullen Jenkins, Chykie Brown, JD Walton and the rest of luminaries constituted a "good team" shows you really do not know your ass from a two base hit.




Why are you upset today? Have a snickers.


LOL! I thought about asking him ‘Why are you so angry?’ but wasn’t in the mood to feel the wrath myself.
RE: Then why didnt Philly hire him?  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2018 8:41 pm : link
In comment 13782758 Chris684 said:
Quote:
..

Fruit of a poisonous tree after Chip Kelly.
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