- Patricia made the best impression
- Shurmur made the biggest leap
- McDaniels just like everyone else no one knows what the Giants are thinking
- Wilks presented himself well but he has a far climb up the mountain with Mara & Tisch to convince them hes not McAdoo Jr
Giants 1st Round - (
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Shurmur's tenor as HC of the Browns is nothing like MacAdoo's or McDaniel's for that matter. He did a respectable job for having absolutely nothing at QB. The only reason he was canned was because the Hasleem's bought the team.
You can say Cleveland all you want, at the end of the day it is what it is.
- GM's traditionally survive coaches.
- Probably more due to Abram's but they were in very good cap shape which is a reflection more on GM then coach. (In reality, Reese hung Coughlin out to dry Coughlin's last year by not spending money and have a boat load to use the following year).
- Coughlin's age was against him. Reese's age worked for him.
- Coughlin didn't help by making some game/time management gaff's the first year.
It definitely is Mara's fault the piece meal approach of change.
- McAdoo as OC one year.
- Spags as DC the next.
- McAdoo replaces Coughlin but keeps a lot of assistants including probably having Sullivan forced on him as the OC.
Yeah. I'm not real confident with Mara but I really like Gettleman. He's the big boy in the room and I'm confident that his voice will be greater then Reese's in a HC selection.
Means he probably helped himself the most from his interview in terms of bumping himself up the rankings.
It means he impressed when they weren't expected to be impressed.
agreed. I love Mara....but he's made a few costly mistakes that have cost him some credibility. His instincts have been off a bit.
1) He mishandled the Josh Brown situation.
2) To me, he rubber stamped everything Reese has wanted to do the last 4-5 years, which has costed the Giants. Drafting guys like Flowers, all of those 3rd rounders, etc. Not addressing the OL appropriately.
And yes, technically, Reese should have been fired 2 years ago with Coughlin.
It was speculated somewhere yesterday that perhaps the Giants view him as a "tweener", somewhere in between a HC and a good coordinator. I would agree with that. There are a lot of those guys around the league.
Jim Schwartz
Todd Haley
Pettine
Norv Turner
And he should have been banging on Reese to bang on McAdoo to get Webb prepared to play earlier in the season.
But does Wilks like Gettleman? What does Wilks think about Gettleman the GM? None of us know; but I wonder.
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"made the biggest leap"
Means he probably helped himself the most from his interview in terms of bumping himself up the rankings.
I'll ask again. How does Art know these little tidbits?
Perhaps Coughlin should have gone (and I personally also felt it was time), but many of us felt the transition was half-assed at the time. They dumped Coughlin but kept virtually his entire coaching staff. The Eagles pressured Mara into hiring McAdoo (he even admitted that) and McAdoo was clearly the wrong hire. Did Mara force coaches on McAdoo too? (I would suspect yes and there have been whispers of interference with respect to Tom Quinn staying longer than he should). Ross had been here far too long. He had a horrible track record before coming to the Giants and did nothing to change that after he came here (I was also told recently by someone with good contacts in scouting circles that Ross had a reputation for being lazy).
As long as I've been a Giants fan, there was only one other time when so many critical decisions the franchise had to make at the same time came to a head - GM, coach, QB - and that was back in the 1970s when George Young was hired. IMO, this is the most critical time this franchise has faced in 40 years.
You can say Cleveland all you want, at the end of the day it is what it is.
Only good year Nick Foles ever had was with him. Made Donovan McNabb into a super bowl QB.
Don't want McDaniels. Patricia intriguing to me, but I still worry about BB assistants and what they actually do.
Meh on Shurmur, espceially if he insists on Keenum. He had his Ryan Fitzpatrick big year. Doubt he does it again.
Intrigued by Wilks, especially if true he would bring DeFillipo as OC, but I undertand the fear after the McAdoosh disaster.
HELL NO on Spags. As I said on another thread, if someone suggested SB winning DC Perry Fewell as HC, he would be roasted here and the board would go nuts.
That's simply not true. The Giants have never been in a significant under-spending situation in a long time. That year we had a lot of money because of expiring contracts and that the NFL significantly bumped the cap up, making more room for everyone - which is why several teams also went on spending sprees, the Jags being a notable one.
Perhaps Coughlin should have gone (and I personally also felt it was time), but many of us felt the transition was half-assed at the time. They dumped Coughlin but kept virtually his entire coaching staff. The Eagles pressured Mara into hiring McAdoo (he even admitted that) and McAdoo was clearly the wrong hire. Did Mara force coaches on McAdoo too? (I would suspect yes and there have been whispers of interference with respect to Tom Quinn staying longer than he should). Ross had been here far too long. He had a horrible track record before coming to the Giants and did nothing to change that after he came here (I was also told recently by someone with good contacts in scouting circles that Ross had a reputation for being lazy).
As long as I've been a Giants fan, there was only one other time when so many critical decisions the franchise had to make at the same time came to a head - GM, coach, QB - and that was back in the 1970s when George Young was hired. IMO, this is the most critical time this franchise has faced in 40 years.
I agree with you on Mara. This is his real first revamp. The biggest thing we can learn about him is his ability to learn from his mistakes and his ability to be humble. He's going to get killed if he hasn't learned.
I also thought it was time for Coughlin after 2015, but again Reese and Ross along with the coaching staff should have gone with him. Mara/Tisch just don't do wholesale changes, willy nilly. The apple didn't fall far from the tree vis a vie Wellington to John.
I think you are right and this hire has to be Gettleman's - cold hard business decision. Dave my need to convince Mara/Tisch, but that is his job to stay between toe owners and the team/coaches.
Perhaps Coughlin should have gone (and I personally also felt it was time), but many of us felt the transition was half-assed at the time. They dumped Coughlin but kept virtually his entire coaching staff. The Eagles pressured Mara into hiring McAdoo (he even admitted that) and McAdoo was clearly the wrong hire. Did Mara force coaches on McAdoo too? (I would suspect yes and there have been whispers of interference with respect to Tom Quinn staying longer than he should). Ross had been here far too long. He had a horrible track record before coming to the Giants and did nothing to change that after he came here (I was also told recently by someone with good contacts in scouting circles that Ross had a reputation for being lazy).
As long as I've been a Giants fan, there was only one other time when so many critical decisions the franchise had to make at the same time came to a head - GM, coach, QB - and that was back in the 1970s when George Young was hired. IMO, this is the most critical time this franchise has faced in 40 years.
This. Mara allowed Reese not only to survive, but to scapegoat Coughlin. Almost 100% of the TC staff and all of the Reese staff was kept in place. Like you, I had no problem with them saying it was time for TC to go, but allowing Reese and EVERYBODY ELSE to survive was ridiculous. Along with the 2013 "Super Bowl clock" fiasco, this is one of the 3 biggest things that have lead to this tipping point in franchise history. The 3rd was the 5 years of barren drafts from 2009-2013.
I've making the same '70s analogy here since mid season.
Exactly my sticking point with him. And it's been made more prevalent more recently. Add to it his absence at the office when the Eli/Geno shit went down, and ... I've lost some faith. I think I can get it back, but how often do people in Mara's position have great self-awareness, and a desire to really make tangible adjustments?
There’s 4 guys in the know. Why would any of them leak that kind of information ? Doesn’t make sense to me.
There’s 4 guys in the know. Why would any of them leak that kind of information ? Doesn’t make sense to me.
exactly....
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All good points. I just worry about his instincts. Not impressed so far. He sounds and looks good, but the Giants have botched the major decisions (to date) under his ownership. Got to call it like I see it.
Perhaps Coughlin should have gone (and I personally also felt it was time), but many of us felt the transition was half-assed at the time. They dumped Coughlin but kept virtually his entire coaching staff. The Eagles pressured Mara into hiring McAdoo (he even admitted that) and McAdoo was clearly the wrong hire. Did Mara force coaches on McAdoo too? (I would suspect yes and there have been whispers of interference with respect to Tom Quinn staying longer than he should). Ross had been here far too long. He had a horrible track record before coming to the Giants and did nothing to change that after he came here (I was also told recently by someone with good contacts in scouting circles that Ross had a reputation for being lazy).
As long as I've been a Giants fan, there was only one other time when so many critical decisions the franchise had to make at the same time came to a head - GM, coach, QB - and that was back in the 1970s when George Young was hired. IMO, this is the most critical time this franchise has faced in 40 years.
This. Mara allowed Reese not only to survive, but to scapegoat Coughlin. Almost 100% of the TC staff and all of the Reese staff was kept in place. Like you, I had no problem with them saying it was time for TC to go, but allowing Reese and EVERYBODY ELSE to survive was ridiculous. Along with the 2013 "Super Bowl clock" fiasco, this is one of the 3 biggest things that have lead to this tipping point in franchise history. The 3rd was the 5 years of barren drafts from 2009-2013.
I've making the same '70s analogy here since mid season.
Why do we care about the Super Bowl clock? It was put in to be a motivator and it's always looked at as some huge issue. I would be pissed if I wasn't playing the biggest game of the season on my home field.
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In reality, Reese hung Coughlin out to dry Coughlin's last year by not spending money and have a boat load to use the following year
That's simply not true. The Giants have never been in a significant under-spending situation in a long time. That year we had a lot of money because of expiring contracts and that the NFL significantly bumped the cap up, making more room for everyone - which is why several teams also went on spending sprees, the Jags being a notable one.
Thank you Fats. Reese obviously didn't do a stellar job here his last several seasons but no need to make shit up. What's funny is that it's possible that it was because of Coughlin's inability to let go of aging/non-performing players (Snee and Diehl for instance) that weren't playing up to the contracts they'd received as the reason why the team didn't have a lot of cap space. Which, as GM, Reese must also bear some responsibility as I've repeatedly said that I very much believe that very few decisions were made without both the GM and HC being on board with it.
Yes!! I've been saying this for months. I really am afraid the problem might be something that can't be changed so we'll have to wait to get lucky.
If you want to complain that Reese and Ross should've been shown the door along with Coughlin, fine, but Coughlin was as much a part of the problem as anyone during the losing stretch. The Giants were playing like a poorly coached team long before McAdoo took the reins and there are only so many times you can fire the coordinators without giving the guy who hired them the heave-ho as well. The thing is, Reese had very little to do with Coughlin's choice in coaches, but you can bet Coughlin had a helluva lot to do with the personnel choices that Reese's name was attached to (Coughlin doesn't camp out at the ten yard line during 40-day at the combine because he likes the attention).
He navigated 10-6 and 9-7 seasons into two Super Bowl wins, but his other nine seasons were characterized by heartbreaking collapses and inexcusable losses. If not for two Tony Romo overthrows, Coughlin would have one playoff victory to show for eleven seasons coaching Big Blue.
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In comment 13782749 Eric from BBI said:
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All good points. I just worry about his instincts. Not impressed so far. He sounds and looks good, but the Giants have botched the major decisions (to date) under his ownership. Got to call it like I see it.
Perhaps Coughlin should have gone (and I personally also felt it was time), but many of us felt the transition was half-assed at the time. They dumped Coughlin but kept virtually his entire coaching staff. The Eagles pressured Mara into hiring McAdoo (he even admitted that) and McAdoo was clearly the wrong hire. Did Mara force coaches on McAdoo too? (I would suspect yes and there have been whispers of interference with respect to Tom Quinn staying longer than he should). Ross had been here far too long. He had a horrible track record before coming to the Giants and did nothing to change that after he came here (I was also told recently by someone with good contacts in scouting circles that Ross had a reputation for being lazy).
As long as I've been a Giants fan, there was only one other time when so many critical decisions the franchise had to make at the same time came to a head - GM, coach, QB - and that was back in the 1970s when George Young was hired. IMO, this is the most critical time this franchise has faced in 40 years.
This. Mara allowed Reese not only to survive, but to scapegoat Coughlin. Almost 100% of the TC staff and all of the Reese staff was kept in place. Like you, I had no problem with them saying it was time for TC to go, but allowing Reese and EVERYBODY ELSE to survive was ridiculous. Along with the 2013 "Super Bowl clock" fiasco, this is one of the 3 biggest things that have lead to this tipping point in franchise history. The 3rd was the 5 years of barren drafts from 2009-2013.
I've making the same '70s analogy here since mid season.
Why do we care about the Super Bowl clock? It was put in to be a motivator and it's always looked at as some huge issue. I would be pissed if I wasn't playing the biggest game of the season on my home field.
Because that should have been when the rebuild started. It set them back another year. The core was on fumes already when they won in 2011. I understand giving that group a chance to repeat in 2012. It was obvious by the end of 2012 that they had serious issues and it was time to start a serious rebuild. Pretending to be in the SB hunt in 2013 was moronic.
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In comment 13782749 Eric from BBI said:
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All good points. I just worry about his instincts. Not impressed so far. He sounds and looks good, but the Giants have botched the major decisions (to date) under his ownership. Got to call it like I see it.
Perhaps Coughlin should have gone (and I personally also felt it was time), but many of us felt the transition was half-assed at the time. They dumped Coughlin but kept virtually his entire coaching staff. The Eagles pressured Mara into hiring McAdoo (he even admitted that) and McAdoo was clearly the wrong hire. Did Mara force coaches on McAdoo too? (I would suspect yes and there have been whispers of interference with respect to Tom Quinn staying longer than he should). Ross had been here far too long. He had a horrible track record before coming to the Giants and did nothing to change that after he came here (I was also told recently by someone with good contacts in scouting circles that Ross had a reputation for being lazy).
As long as I've been a Giants fan, there was only one other time when so many critical decisions the franchise had to make at the same time came to a head - GM, coach, QB - and that was back in the 1970s when George Young was hired. IMO, this is the most critical time this franchise has faced in 40 years.
This. Mara allowed Reese not only to survive, but to scapegoat Coughlin. Almost 100% of the TC staff and all of the Reese staff was kept in place. Like you, I had no problem with them saying it was time for TC to go, but allowing Reese and EVERYBODY ELSE to survive was ridiculous. Along with the 2013 "Super Bowl clock" fiasco, this is one of the 3 biggest things that have lead to this tipping point in franchise history. The 3rd was the 5 years of barren drafts from 2009-2013.
I've making the same '70s analogy here since mid season.
Why do we care about the Super Bowl clock? It was put in to be a motivator and it's always looked at as some huge issue. I would be pissed if I wasn't playing the biggest game of the season on my home field.
I was thinking the same thing. Don't understand that why that clock is being brought up as often as it has been... and anyway, again, does anyone really think it was put up without Coughlin's consent?
Bingo. You can't overreact because of similar backgrounds. Each person is different.
and he wasn't very good.
and he wasn't very good.
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worries me are Mara's instincts. He comes across as a really smart guy and he seems sincere. But I still can't get around the fact that when push came to shove, in his determination last year, Reese and Ross weren't the problem but Coughlin was. Now a lot of fans felt the same way, but he's supposed to know better, in fact, better than anyone.
I'm sure he does know better than anyone. We don't know what goes on in the war room. Maybe when it came down to contrasting opinions, Reese was proven right more often than Coughlin was.
If you want to complain that Reese and Ross should've been shown the door along with Coughlin, fine, but Coughlin was as much a part of the problem as anyone during the losing stretch. The Giants were playing like a poorly coached team long before McAdoo took the reins and there are only so many times you can fire the coordinators without giving the guy who hired them the heave-ho as well. The thing is, Reese had very little to do with Coughlin's choice in coaches, but you can bet Coughlin had a helluva lot to do with the personnel choices that Reese's name was attached to (Coughlin doesn't camp out at the ten yard line during 40-day at the combine because he likes the attention).
He navigated 10-6 and 9-7 seasons into two Super Bowl wins, but his other nine seasons were characterized by heartbreaking collapses and inexcusable losses. If not for two Tony Romo overthrows, Coughlin would have one playoff victory to show for eleven seasons coaching Big Blue.
yes, Yes and Yes AGAIN to the bold part!
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worries me are Mara's instincts. He comes across as a really smart guy and he seems sincere. But I still can't get around the fact that when push came to shove, in his determination last year, Reese and Ross weren't the problem but Coughlin was. Now a lot of fans felt the same way, but he's supposed to know better, in fact, better than anyone.
I'm sure he does know better than anyone. We don't know what goes on in the war room. Maybe when it came down to contrasting opinions, Reese was proven right more often than Coughlin was.
If you want to complain that Reese and Ross should've been shown the door along with Coughlin, fine, but Coughlin was as much a part of the problem as anyone during the losing stretch. The Giants were playing like a poorly coached team long before McAdoo took the reins and there are only so many times you can fire the coordinators without giving the guy who hired them the heave-ho as well. The thing is, Reese had very little to do with Coughlin's choice in coaches, but you can bet Coughlin had a helluva lot to do with the personnel choices that Reese's name was attached to (Coughlin doesn't camp out at the ten yard line during 40-day at the combine because he likes the attention).
He navigated 10-6 and 9-7 seasons into two Super Bowl wins, but his other nine seasons were characterized by heartbreaking collapses and inexcusable losses. If not for two Tony Romo overthrows, Coughlin would have one playoff victory to show for eleven seasons coaching Big Blue.
Ok, so now BBI has minimized our two SB victories into 2 overthrows by Romo? Lets forget about all the other playoff wins, the other 59.5 minutes of the Cowboys games (on the road by the way), and the SB game itself. Or what about some other passes earlier in the game that Romo was lucky on? Geez.
Linehan is skating on thin ice in Dallas.
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In comment 13782707 Eric from BBI said:
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worries me are Mara's instincts. He comes across as a really smart guy and he seems sincere. But I still can't get around the fact that when push came to shove, in his determination last year, Reese and Ross weren't the problem but Coughlin was. Now a lot of fans felt the same way, but he's supposed to know better, in fact, better than anyone.
I'm sure he does know better than anyone. We don't know what goes on in the war room. Maybe when it came down to contrasting opinions, Reese was proven right more often than Coughlin was.
If you want to complain that Reese and Ross should've been shown the door along with Coughlin, fine, but Coughlin was as much a part of the problem as anyone during the losing stretch. The Giants were playing like a poorly coached team long before McAdoo took the reins and there are only so many times you can fire the coordinators without giving the guy who hired them the heave-ho as well. The thing is, Reese had very little to do with Coughlin's choice in coaches, but you can bet Coughlin had a helluva lot to do with the personnel choices that Reese's name was attached to (Coughlin doesn't camp out at the ten yard line during 40-day at the combine because he likes the attention).
He navigated 10-6 and 9-7 seasons into two Super Bowl wins, but his other nine seasons were characterized by heartbreaking collapses and inexcusable losses. If not for two Tony Romo overthrows, Coughlin would have one playoff victory to show for eleven seasons coaching Big Blue.
yes, Yes and Yes AGAIN to the bold part!
I wanted to type something similar, but thought I would get roasted.
In the Prime of Eli's career we won 10 games 4 out of 12 seasons under Coughlin. That's when we had a ton of talent on the roster. It burned out fast at the end.
The whole chicken and the egg thing with Coughlin and Reese has got to stop. They both played equal parts into the disaster. There were reasons Coughlin's head was wanted more then one time before he won the first and second Super Bowl.
Reese got the pass last time, probably because he never had a chance to actually pick his own head coach. He inherited Coughlin, who at the time was on very thin ice.
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In comment 13782805 Milton said:
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In comment 13782707 Eric from BBI said:
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worries me are Mara's instincts. He comes across as a really smart guy and he seems sincere. But I still can't get around the fact that when push came to shove, in his determination last year, Reese and Ross weren't the problem but Coughlin was. Now a lot of fans felt the same way, but he's supposed to know better, in fact, better than anyone.
I'm sure he does know better than anyone. We don't know what goes on in the war room. Maybe when it came down to contrasting opinions, Reese was proven right more often than Coughlin was.
If you want to complain that Reese and Ross should've been shown the door along with Coughlin, fine, but Coughlin was as much a part of the problem as anyone during the losing stretch. The Giants were playing like a poorly coached team long before McAdoo took the reins and there are only so many times you can fire the coordinators without giving the guy who hired them the heave-ho as well. The thing is, Reese had very little to do with Coughlin's choice in coaches, but you can bet Coughlin had a helluva lot to do with the personnel choices that Reese's name was attached to (Coughlin doesn't camp out at the ten yard line during 40-day at the combine because he likes the attention).
He navigated 10-6 and 9-7 seasons into two Super Bowl wins, but his other nine seasons were characterized by heartbreaking collapses and inexcusable losses. If not for two Tony Romo overthrows, Coughlin would have one playoff victory to show for eleven seasons coaching Big Blue.
yes, Yes and Yes AGAIN to the bold part!
I wanted to type something similar, but thought I would get roasted.
In the Prime of Eli's career we won 10 games 4 out of 12 seasons under Coughlin. That's when we had a ton of talent on the roster. It burned out fast at the end.
The whole chicken and the egg thing with Coughlin and Reese has got to stop. They both played equal parts into the disaster. There were reasons Coughlin's head was wanted more then one time before he won the first and second Super Bowl.
Reese got the pass last time, probably because he never had a chance to actually pick his own head coach. He inherited Coughlin, who at the time was on very thin ice.
EXACTLY! And your last paragraph is precisely why I thought Reese should've stayed. Of course NOW, with hindsight, that was a the wrong move but it didn't appear to be the year after Coughlin left.
Perhaps Coughlin should have gone (and I personally also felt it was time), but many of us felt the transition was half-assed at the time. They dumped Coughlin but kept virtually his entire coaching staff. The Eagles pressured Mara into hiring McAdoo (he even admitted that) and McAdoo was clearly the wrong hire. Did Mara force coaches on McAdoo too? (I would suspect yes and there have been whispers of interference with respect to Tom Quinn staying longer than he should). Ross had been here far too long. He had a horrible track record before coming to the Giants and did nothing to change that after he came here (I was also told recently by someone with good contacts in scouting circles that Ross had a reputation for being lazy).
As long as I've been a Giants fan, there was only one other time when so many critical decisions the franchise had to make at the same time came to a head - GM, coach, QB - and that was back in the 1970s when George Young was hired. IMO, this is the most critical time this franchise has faced in 40 years.
I think Mara put to much trust into Jerry Resse and like being stuck in a bad marrigae didnt see it until to late. I am hoping at least he will make more calculated decisions going forward
The difference could be personality and humility in being able to adapt .... TC mellowed a bit ... as we saw Mac was inflexible and it did not pan out .... Hopefully the brass is not bringing the Bob "baggage" into this new pending "relationship" ...