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Patricia or Wilks? Who do you want?

Sean : 1/11/2018 11:13 am
It appears these are the favorites. I think Shurmur is headed to Arizona & McDaniels to Indy. It looks like the Giants are about to hire their first defensive minded HC since Parcells.

Patricia- apparently a genius, has coached both sides of the ball and is considered a mini-Belichick.

Wilks- less coordinator experience, but considered a leader of men. Someone who can clean up the culture here.

Both intrigue me, but Iím rooting for Patricia. He feels riskier, but I love what Iíve heard about him.
Matty P  
The Dude : 1/11/2018 11:15 am : link
.
Mcadoo  
spike : 1/11/2018 11:16 am : link
was the smartest man in the room too
RE: Mcadoo  
fireitup77 : 1/11/2018 11:17 am : link
In comment 13782870 spike said:
Quote:
was the smartest man in the room too


We have a new room.
I feel like the search has been  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/11/2018 11:17 am : link
extensive, and because of that, I feel whoever its going to be will be the right choice.
RE: Mcadoo  
figgy2989 : 1/11/2018 11:17 am : link
In comment 13782870 spike said:
Quote:
was the smartest man in the room too


Yeah but Matt Patricia actually would be the smartest man in the room.
Patricia  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 1/11/2018 11:17 am : link
Very smart, lots of experience at the coordinator level.
Patricia  
Big Rick in FL : 1/11/2018 11:17 am : link
He's got a proven track record. Good defenses even after they trade away his best players. He's won. He's a genius. He's coached both sides of the ball.
More candidates  
ghost718 : 1/11/2018 11:18 am : link
.
I don't see how you make a decision on one interview  
gtt350 : 1/11/2018 11:18 am : link
.
Patricia  
BLUATHRT : 1/11/2018 11:18 am : link
I think he's learned from the best there has ever been. Combine that with his intelligence, years of experience and the fact he's coached both sides of the ball.
Wilks scares me  
Gmanfandan : 1/11/2018 11:19 am : link
Do not like that he chose to coach from the booth

Wish the pick was between Matty P and Shurmur. Either would make me happy.
RE: Mcadoo  
jtfuoco : 1/11/2018 11:20 am : link
In comment 13782870 spike said:
Quote:
was the smartest man in the room too


So is my Dog in a full off toddlers
I like Wilks  
George : 1/11/2018 11:20 am : link
He might be a year away from being ready, though.
Patricia.  
larryflower37 : 1/11/2018 11:20 am : link
Home grown kid. Great attitude and know how to get the most out of his players.
I think the second round of interviews will be very telling....  
Simms11 : 1/11/2018 11:21 am : link
IMO, I think it's down to Patricia, Shurmer and Wilks. Between Patricia or Wilks, you have to go with the more experienced guy in Patricia. Wilks may command the room better, but I just think Patricia has the other desirable intangibles over the others.
Shurmer  
jeff57 : 1/11/2018 11:22 am : link
.
I was on the  
ryanmkeane : 1/11/2018 11:23 am : link
Wilks train for awhile, but after the past few days, I've switched my opinion to Patricia. I would now be disappointed if we didn't hire him.
McDaniels or Wilks  
Rflairr : 1/11/2018 11:24 am : link
.
RE: Mcadoo  
GMen131 : 1/11/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 13782870 spike said:
Quote:
was the smartest man in the room too


Wrong. McAdoo THOUGHT he was the smartest man in the room and spent too much of his time trying to prove to everyone that he was the smartest man in the room.
Patricia  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 1/11/2018 11:25 am : link
but I was not in on the interview process, so it's a tough call.
i'd be fine with either  
cjac : 1/11/2018 11:26 am : link
I just want to get this thing right
Not gonna be excited about either  
The_Boss : 1/11/2018 11:28 am : link
because the crop of candidates kind sucks on the whole. But if I had to choose one, it would probably be Wilks solely because he would probably bring DeFilippo along as OC.
I think  
Breeze_94 : 1/11/2018 11:29 am : link
Patricia has a higher ceiling. I remember a report coming out that some teams were so impressed when they interviewed him a year or 2 back, that they thought he could've probably been a GM down the road.

I've wished for Patricia  
silverfox : 1/11/2018 11:29 am : link
Even before McAdoo was hired.I want a guy who comes from the parcells/BB tree. I can't think of a better pedigree.
RE: Not gonna be excited about either  
Breeze_94 : 1/11/2018 11:30 am : link
In comment 13782910 The_Boss said:
Quote:
because the crop of candidates kind sucks on the whole. But if I had to choose one, it would probably be Wilks solely because he would probably bring DeFilippo along as OC.


Defilippo would be nice, but the only issue with that is that if he does a good job, he will probably leave to pursue a head coaching vacancy within a couple of years.
_________  
I am Ninja : 1/11/2018 11:32 am : link
mcadoo really wasnt the smartest guy in the room though.
I want....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/11/2018 11:33 am : link
....Belichick or Saban.
RE: RE: Not gonna be excited about either  
Rocky369 : 1/11/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 13782915 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Defilippo would be nice, but the only issue with that is that if he does a good job, he will probably leave to pursue a head coaching vacancy within a couple of years.

I've never understood this line of reasoning. Would you prefer someone that does not succeed? Having a chance at a promotion means you did your job well. We want people that do their job well.
Wilks  
GoDeep13 : 1/11/2018 11:38 am : link
Like Gettleman said. The HC is the CEO of the operation and heís gotta know how to command and lead above all else.
Unless he's already decided on the Lions I think  
Blue21 : 1/11/2018 11:40 am : link
it will be Patricia. My choice? I can't say because I don't know. But he is the less riskier choice. He's more experience than Wilks. He's coached both sides of the ball in various capacities. Coached under BB. If he was available to the Giants and they didn't take him and he went on to be great it would haunt Giants management and fans forever. Wilks is probably more of a risk.
Given the choice between these two ...  
Beezer : 1/11/2018 11:41 am : link

I prefer Patricia.

But who the hell knows!
I don't know...  
Milton : 1/11/2018 11:43 am : link
Which of the two has a cobra snake for a necktie?
Who do you love? - ( New Window )
RE: Wilks  
larryflower37 : 1/11/2018 11:44 am : link
In comment 13782932 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
Like Gettleman said. The HC is the CEO of the operation and heís gotta know how to command and lead above all else.


I have read as much as possible about both.
What give you the impression that Wilks does this better than Patrica?
Wilks, if you want to change the current rotten Giants'  
dk in TX : 1/11/2018 11:44 am : link
Locker room culture. Wilks has a no nonsense reputation and has the presence. The primary job of a head coach is a CEO and not X's and O's.

Have you heard Matt Patricia?. He sounds like he has not hit puberty and has immaturity tendencies.

The Giants need a strong, "grown" head coach that can clean up McAdoo's mess and handle the Odells of this world.

Patricia  
Go Terps : 1/11/2018 11:47 am : link
.
I'm OK with the smartest guy in the room again  
Bramton1 : 1/11/2018 11:47 am : link
as long as this one has some social skills.
I like what I've read about Wilks demeanor and rep as a disciplinarian  
j_rud : 1/11/2018 11:47 am : link
I like Patricia's experience.

As a fellow proud, bearded American, that's my tiebreaker. Just turn the hat around and get rid of the pencils. He looks like a carpenter.
risk in both. For me, as I've said before, the track record, or lack  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 11:49 am : link
thereof of BB assistants is worrisome. Is it all BB the mad scientist, or does Patricia really gameplan and implement on his own?

Wilks obviously less tenured as a coordinator but as others have said, you don't want to take the opposite tack just because of the BM fiasco and lose out on a possible great hire. And he does have a working history with Gettleman.

Gun to my head: Wilks.
RE: Wilks scares me  
djstat : 1/11/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 13782888 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
Do not like that he chose to coach from the booth

Wish the pick was between Matty P and Shurmur. Either would make me happy.
You have clearly never called a football game as a DC. Trust me, calling defense from booth is MUCH better for some coaches. Has nothing to do with speaking to players and everything to do with seeing the opposing team. When you call a defense you often are looking for specifics by the offense. Its easier to look for yourself then to ask another set of eyes to look for you.
Patricia  
giants#1 : 1/11/2018 11:51 am : link
- Longer track record as DC
- Lots of respect from his players (see Boston article this morning), though Wilks checks this box too
- Tech savvy - makes coaches/players more efficient and thus gives them more time to focus on important aspects.
- Seems more likely to incorporate advanced analytics into weekly prep -> could provide significant advantages in terms of identifying tendencies of his team and the opposition.
I prefer Wilks but I'm glad they seem to be top choices  
Chris684 : 1/11/2018 11:51 am : link
would be happy with either. With that, obviously the OC hire for either is going to be big but I like that Daboll, Defilipo or Hamilton (just to name a few) would likely be considered.

I like a clean HC resume. I like a defensive hire. I like that linebackers will presumably once again be valued. I like that the chicken shit behavior that has pervaded this locker room will no longer be tolerated.
RE: Wilks, if you want to change the current rotten Giants'  
larryflower37 : 1/11/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 13782940 dk in TX said:
Quote:
Locker room culture. Wilks has a no nonsense reputation and has the presence. The primary job of a head coach is a CEO and not X's and O's.

Have you heard Matt Patricia?. He sounds like he has not hit puberty and has immaturity tendencies.

The Giants need a strong, "grown" head coach that can clean up McAdoo's mess and handle the Odells of this world.


Patricia has a reputation to be a very good motivator and get the most out of his players.
Also he does not pull punches.
I get why people like Wilks he is an interesting candidate.
But people keep using this CEO quote.
Without any solid information to back it up
Patricia  
Mr. Nickels : 1/11/2018 11:54 am : link
.
Patricia  
ZogZerg : 1/11/2018 11:58 am : link
For a lot of the reasons stated.
Plus anyone who pisses on Goodell gets bonus point with me.
If you want to change the rotten locker room culture,  
Go Terps : 1/11/2018 11:59 am : link
get rid of the players that make it rotten. I understand the head coach is a CEO, but he's also not a therapist or a babysitter.

I think it's incumbent on the front office to populate the locker room with professionals so the head coach can do his job and prepare his team for the opponent.

Get rid of our idiots so they can go infect other locker rooms.
Patricia  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/11/2018 12:00 pm : link
easily
Terps...  
Chris684 : 1/11/2018 12:03 pm : link
It starts with the HC.

Get a guy in here who doesnt who will breakdown the risk/reward with whatever player.

Really warming up to Patricia as HC.  
Watson : 1/11/2018 12:09 pm : link
.
Honestly  
GiantFanInTX : 1/11/2018 12:14 pm : link
I wouldn't mind either of them. I think both are smart, assertive guys who bring different strengths to the table. Being a head coach is all about being a leader.
Like the fat guy with the beard, but for me itís Wilks  
trueblueinpw : 1/11/2018 12:20 pm : link
Donít know why but Wilks coaching from the skybox bothers me. Just feel like D-cos should be on the field. But heís been a head coach, even for just a year at a small school which is a plus as it shows heís carried the load at least once, and heís been through a number of programs in a number of defensive positions in the NFL. I like that he was an Assistant HC to Rivera because that indicates heís had experience with the administrative tasks of an NFL head coach. He obviously has the support of Gettleman and they know each other. Gettleman is a hard acre and Wilks must already know this so theyíd most likely get along. To be the first African American head coach of the Giants would be terrific too. Race shouldnít matter, but every young man in the Giants locker room who isnít white knows that race matters every day of their lives. I for one would be very happy if the Giants afforded a very qualified Wilks the opportunity to be HC.

I like Patriciaís press profile but heís only been with the Pats and that makes it very tough to know what heíll do without Hoodie the GOAT, Tommy Uggs and the unbelievable luck of the Pats. I like that heís coached both sides of the ball in the NFL. Iíd be fine with Patricia but I think Wilks appears more qualified.

No idea how these guys interviewed, of course.
I'd be supportive of either, but since my time at RPI overlaps with MP  
Heisenberg : 1/11/2018 12:20 pm : link
he's got the edge for me. :)
RE: If you want to change the rotten locker room culture,  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13782967 Go Terps said:
Quote:
get rid of the players that make it rotten. I understand the head coach is a CEO, but he's also not a therapist or a babysitter.

I think it's incumbent on the front office to populate the locker room with professionals so the head coach can do his job and prepare his team for the opponent.

Get rid of our idiots so they can go infect other locker rooms.


Give it a rest man. There was no leadership at all at the GM or HC level - that's where it starts. Your never ending crusade against players who post dumb stuff on Twitter is getting old.
Patricia.  
Brown Recluse : 1/11/2018 12:21 pm : link

And my, how BBIers love to steal the GM's words and regurgitate them at every opportunity to make them sound smart.
Patricia is the choice for me  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2018 12:21 pm : link
just too many things to like with the only negative being no HC experience (which doesn't bother me).
all that matters is they better not screw up this hire  
micky : 1/11/2018 12:23 pm : link
better be 1000% sure this guy is the right guy.
Patricia  
moespree : 1/11/2018 12:23 pm : link
He's been with Belichick a very long time, spent over a decade learning the way Bill prepares and scouts an opponent, how Bill handles internal or external problems, he coached three separate positions before becoming a coordinator, and has to deal and adjust every time Belichick trades someone off his defense for the last 5 seasons.

This is a much different 'first time head coach' than Ben McAdoo. It is always a risk, but I feel far more comfortable that someone like this is ready for the job. Look, all these successful head coaches had the 'first time head coach' label at one point too, right? So you have to start somewhere. I'm okay with this risk. It's a gamble but one that could seriously pay off.
UConn  
Go Terps : 1/11/2018 12:27 pm : link
How do you know that? Were you saying that about Reese and McAdoo when they went 11-5 the year before? Were you saying that about Reese when we won two Super Bowls with him as GM?

This roster has a preponderance of jackasses on it. If you don't realize that you aren't paying attention.

It was time for both guys to go, but this team's problems didn't leave with them. And personally I'd rather the next coaching staff be more concerned with game plans than with babying the idiots on this roster. I imagine that coaching in the NFL is hard enough without managing immature, unprofessional fools.
Patricia  
idiotsavant : 1/11/2018 12:29 pm : link
Smart people can break complex problems down to simple tasks.

Whereas with McAdoo, Sully. Reese, they didn't even see the nature of the problem.
Patricia  
Pascal4554 : 1/11/2018 12:30 pm : link
More experience as a coordinator.
You guys know my answer  
Josh in the City : 1/11/2018 12:30 pm : link
Matty P
I'd be happy with either...BUT  
Emil : 1/11/2018 12:30 pm : link
I was all in on Wilks, but am seriously warming up to the idea of Patricia. I had dismissed Patricia because I thought of him as Bill Belichick's puppet and just another New England coordinator that can't exist outside Bill's shadow. But...when I look at his personal history and resume, there is a lot to like.

He's 43, from Sherill NY originally. I'm sure that helps his appeal with Giants' brass.

He went to RPI (which the media never grows tired of telling us), played offensive line.

He then went to Amherst College as a Defensive line coach.

He then went on to coach the offensive line as a graduate assistant at Syracuse (insert obligatory line about how much the Giants love Syracuse players and coaches or something).

He started with the Pats in 2004, and has coached as an offensive assistant, assistant offensive line coach, linebackers coach, safeties coach, and defensive coordinator during his nearly 18 years there.

Maybe Patricia is his own guy. I like his resume, I like his roots. Everyone talks about his degree from RPI, but I think he's got more than book smarts. You don't go to RPI if you are an idiot. You don't coach at Amherst if you are an idiot, and you don't work for Bill Belichick for 14 years if you are an idiot.

Despite my reluctance over the past few weeks, I'd be very happy with Patricia.
How did Randy Moss work out in Foxboro?  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2018 12:33 pm : link
why didn't he workout in Oakland? How about Lynch in Buffalo vs. Seattle?

The players need to take responsibility but it starts at the top. And it could have very well been under control here in 2016 and then Reese/McAdoo finally wore out their welcome. Not everything is a constant and there's a massive amount of information we don't have as to what goes on in a locker room.

But yeah, lets ship everyone out after a brutal season when McAdoo couldn't even come up with a competent gameplan let alone achieve respect in a locker room.
Patricia  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/11/2018 12:35 pm : link
.
Ideally...  
bw in dc : 1/11/2018 12:37 pm : link
neither.

But I'll go Patricia. Maybe he's finally the Belichick coordinator who can stand on his own...

I'm so unimpressed by all of these candidates that maybe it's time to call Cowher... ;)
Again,  
RottenApple : 1/11/2018 12:39 pm : link
what is making Patricia so appealing? Is the only reason because he's associated with Bill? His defensive ranks have been abysmal.
RE: Again,  
Emil : 1/11/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13783034 RottenApple said:
Quote:
what is making Patricia so appealing? Is the only reason because he's associated with Bill? His defensive ranks have been abysmal.


In fairness, while the New England is 29th in yards allowed, they were 5th in points allowed.
Pats defensive stats are a bit misleading  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2018 12:48 pm : link
they are usually blowing teams out

2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226

6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.
I wish I had a better handle  
Gregorio : 1/11/2018 12:54 pm : link
on which would be the better delegator of responsibility. Coordinator experience doesn't carry much weight for me. Needs to be an effective delegator. Leadership ability is important.

From what I read of Wilks, he might the better delegator. I also like Patricia's personality, and he has a track record of winning.

Hard to pick on the limited info I have.
RE: Pats defensive stats are a bit misleading  
RottenApple : 1/11/2018 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13783046 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
they are usually blowing teams out

2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226

6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.


So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.
Wilkes  
Gross Blau Oberst : 1/11/2018 12:55 pm : link
without hesitation.
I like them both and will be happy with either,  
Ryan in Albany : 1/11/2018 12:57 pm : link
but prefer MP
RE: RE: Pats defensive stats are a bit misleading  
moespree : 1/11/2018 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13783057 RottenApple said:
Quote:
In comment 13783046 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


they are usually blowing teams out

2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226

6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.



So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.


But to be honest, an argument could be made that has always been Belichick's defense. I just looked it up and even the 86 Giants defense were 19th in pass defense but 2nd in points allowed. He's never really relied on total get after the QB or blitz happy defense. It's more about taking away the best offensive player and then adjusting the rest of the defense to whatever the opponent is doing, trying to limit the options of the QB so if they do move the ball they eventually stall out and have to either kick a field goal or turn it over on downs. I would imagine Patricia would bring the same concept seeing that he's run it the last 5 years.
RE: You guys know my answer  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13783014 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
Matty P


I'm voting for Wilks so I'll never have to see your trite references to "Matty P" again.
I said in a previous thread  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2018 1:05 pm : link
that you are going to find something to not like about any candidate - whether its O or D rankings, style, haircut, whatever. I'm not really here to convince anyone that he'd be an amazing coach - I have no idea how it will shake out, maybe he will suck.

I've just watched enough of the Pats over the years to respect how the defense operates and love what I read about Patricia's work with analytics and schemes.
RE: RE: RE: Pats defensive stats are a bit misleading  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13783071 moespree said:
Quote:
In comment 13783057 RottenApple said:


Quote:


In comment 13783046 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


they are usually blowing teams out

2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226

6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.



So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.



But to be honest, an argument could be made that has always been Belichick's defense. I just looked it up and even the 86 Giants defense were 19th in pass defense but 2nd in points allowed. He's never really relied on total get after the QB or blitz happy defense. It's more about taking away the best offensive player and then adjusting the rest of the defense to whatever the opponent is doing, trying to limit the options of the QB so if they do move the ball they eventually stall out and have to either kick a field goal or turn it over on downs. I would imagine Patricia would bring the same concept seeing that he's run it the last 5 years.


They were 19th in pass defense for 2 reasons: 1) it was IMPOSSIBLE to run on them and 2) They played with the lead often.
Wish Giants  
gmenrule : 1/11/2018 1:54 pm : link
would at least find out if Stanford's Shaw is interested.
Patricia  
DennyInDenville : 1/11/2018 1:57 pm : link
It needs to happen

I'm sold on his hype.

Let's do this Mara
.  
arcarsenal : 1/11/2018 2:00 pm : link
I still like Shurmur more than both but I'd prefer Patricia to Wilks.
Vote Tally (so far)  
Vanzetti : 1/11/2018 2:00 pm : link
Patricia 28
Wilks 9
Either 4



I vote Patricia but would be ok with Wilks
I have a mild preference for Shurmur  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:01 pm : link
But, outside of having no desire to see McDaniels hired, I don't have particularly strong feelings about any of them.
Wilks and Patricia  
Peppers : 1/11/2018 2:03 pm : link
Are my top two guys but..

Better question would be Wilks or Shurmur?

Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Pats defensive stats are a bit misleading  
moespree : 1/11/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13783082 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13783071 moespree said:


Quote:


In comment 13783057 RottenApple said:


Quote:


In comment 13783046 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


they are usually blowing teams out

2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226

6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.



So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.



But to be honest, an argument could be made that has always been Belichick's defense. I just looked it up and even the 86 Giants defense were 19th in pass defense but 2nd in points allowed. He's never really relied on total get after the QB or blitz happy defense. It's more about taking away the best offensive player and then adjusting the rest of the defense to whatever the opponent is doing, trying to limit the options of the QB so if they do move the ball they eventually stall out and have to either kick a field goal or turn it over on downs. I would imagine Patricia would bring the same concept seeing that he's run it the last 5 years.



They were 19th in pass defense for 2 reasons: 1) it was IMPOSSIBLE to run on them and 2) They played with the lead often.


Well that's fair. But a similar argument could be made about Patricia's Pats led defenses too. They play with the lead often. I don't know how good or not he would be, but I think there is more to it than just utilizing the Pats team defensive statistics under him. I do put stock into the fact that Belichick trusted him to run it for 5 seasons. That's not a short period of time in the NFL. And that is Belichick's specialty. If he trusted him with it for half a decade I do think that's noteworthy of his potential skillset as a coach.
RE: RE: Mcadoo  
Modus Operandi : 1/11/2018 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13782873 fireitup77 said:
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In comment 13782870 spike said:


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was the smartest man in the room too



We have a new room.


Must have been a room in an ant colony.
Patricia  
GiantTuff1 : 1/11/2018 2:23 pm : link
I was on the McDaniels bandwagon, but the more I read about Patricia the more I respect and like him. He has brilliance in between those ears, and an ability to relate to players, and doesn't have the douche stank that sometimes McDaniels is criticized for (which I personally think is just confidence that is perceived as douchiness, but to each their own).

Wilks seems like a great guy, but how creative is he? His experience is thin, 1 year as coordinator? Who has he really learned under? Certainly not the GOAT. Leader of Men is great, but to me you need to be able to lead, and you need that intuitive ability, like Russel Crowe in a Beautiful Mind, to read between the lines, feel out situations, and with intelligence and engineering precision, expose opponents.

Patricia answers that bell for me, his defense always manages a way despite how much craziness and turnover there is year to year, even week to week.
Neither....  
GFAN52 : 1/11/2018 2:29 pm : link
Shurmur.
The Giants didn't have a great secondary in 1986  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:40 pm : link
Collins was just a rookie nickelback that year. The starters were Perry Williams and Toast Patterson, and the safeties were Kinard (who went down for the year in week 14) and Kenny Hill.

Even still, while they allowed a lot of yards (which is the basis for that 19th ranking), it was on a lot of attempts (26th in passing attempts against), and they only allowed 15 passing TDs (3rd best in the league) versus 24 INTs (7th best). And they were 4th in sacks with 59. Actually I was surprised they were only 4th - San Diego was third with 62 which was pretty shocking, I didn't realize Leslie O'Neal was on that team already in 1986.

In 1990, with an excellent secondary (though much less of a pass rush) they were 6th in passing yards allowed, 2nd in passing TDs, 4th in INTs.
Neither  
ArcadeSlumlord : 1/11/2018 2:45 pm : link
Gimme Belli Belli
The whole, "I don't like him because  
B in ALB : 1/11/2018 2:48 pm : link
he coaches from the booth" nonsense is one of the dumbest, most ill-informed, ridiculous comments I've ever heard on BBI.

You do realize that seeing the field from the booth offers a much better view of the whole field, formations, schemes, movement, etc and makes the job much easier than being on the sideline, right? Plus, you've got your staff up there supporting you.

Just a dumb, dumb argument as to why you don't like Wilks.


That said, I'd take Patricia over him.
Ron Erhardt coached from the booth  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:49 pm : link
I'd say that worked out pretty well for the Giants, no?
I've wanted an offensive guy,  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/11/2018 2:51 pm : link
but I've warmed up to Patricia alittle bit. At least he has a ton of experience as a coordinator, if nothing else.
Of course coaching from the skybox can make a difference  
trueblueinpw : 1/11/2018 3:38 pm : link
The difference, aside from obvious altitude, and viewing perspective is that a defensive coordinator in the skybox wonít be interacting face to face with their players. They wonít hear what the players on the field are saying. You canít talk to the entire defense at once and thereís no emotional connection with the players when youíre in the box.

And if you donít think any of that makes a difference, fine, enjoy your opinion but do so knowing youíre ignoring history. There have been instances when NFL HCs have asked their D-cos to come down from the skybox and coach from the sidelines. In fact, this was an issue when TC was here and wanted D-co Bill Sheridan to coach from the sideline while BS wanted to be in the box. Later when Fewell took over for BS a big point was made in the press of how PF was going to be on the sidelines. PF himself commented how he preferred to be on the sidelines. Now, I was no fan of PF but that instance alone means those talking smack that skybox or sideline makes no difference might actually be wrong. If it mattered to TC then maybe thereís something to it.

As well, I believe this tends to be less of an issue with O-cos which may be why Ron Erhardt and many other O-cos have called and continue to call plays from the box. D-cos can, and obviously do coach from the box, but they are the exception not the rule and I wonder if maybe thereís a reason for that?
RE: The Giants didn't have a great secondary in 1986  
Reale01 : 1/11/2018 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13783298 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Collins was just a rookie nickelback that year. The starters were Perry Williams and Toast Patterson, and the safeties were Kinard (who went down for the year in week 14) and Kenny Hill.

Even still, while they allowed a lot of yards (which is the basis for that 19th ranking), it was on a lot of attempts (26th in passing attempts against), and they only allowed 15 passing TDs (3rd best in the league) versus 24 INTs (7th best). And they were 4th in sacks with 59. Actually I was surprised they were only 4th - San Diego was third with 62 which was pretty shocking, I didn't realize Leslie O'Neal was on that team already in 1986.

In 1990, with an excellent secondary (though much less of a pass rush) they were 6th in passing yards allowed, 2nd in passing TDs, 4th in INTs.


Pretty sure Collins was a starter by mid-season, but your overall point is correct. Also a great pass rush makes the secondary better.
That settles it......  
paesan98 : 1/11/2018 4:45 pm : link
With at least 90% of responders voting for Patricia, the Giants will hire Wilks. Just to piss you all off.
Whomever they hire.....  
paesan98 : 1/11/2018 4:56 pm : link
I just hope he gets the guys to be heavy-handed and play complementary football.
RE: RE: Wilks scares me  
Gmanfandan : 1/11/2018 5:34 pm : link
In comment 13782951 djstat said:
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In comment 13782888 Gmanfandan said:


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Do not like that he chose to coach from the booth

Wish the pick was between Matty P and Shurmur. Either would make me happy.

You have clearly never called a football game as a DC. Trust me, calling defense from booth is MUCH better for some coaches. Has nothing to do with speaking to players and everything to do with seeing the opposing team. When you call a defense you often are looking for specifics by the offense. Its easier to look for yourself then to ask another set of eyes to look for you.


Tells me he's an x's and o's guy over motivation and feel for the game. Landry was more x's and o's Parcells was more motivation and feel.

And you are correct! I have never called a football game as a DC on any level :)
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