It appears these are the favorites. I think Shurmur is headed to Arizona & McDaniels to Indy. It looks like the Giants are about to hire their first defensive minded HC since Parcells.
Patricia- apparently a genius, has coached both sides of the ball and is considered a mini-Belichick.
Wilks- less coordinator experience, but considered a leader of men. Someone who can clean up the culture here.
Both intrigue me, but I’m rooting for Patricia. He feels riskier, but I love what I’ve heard about him.
We have a new room.
Yeah but Matt Patricia actually would be the smartest man in the room.
Wish the pick was between Matty P and Shurmur. Either would make me happy.
So is my Dog in a full off toddlers
Wrong. McAdoo THOUGHT he was the smartest man in the room and spent too much of his time trying to prove to everyone that he was the smartest man in the room.
Defilippo would be nice, but the only issue with that is that if he does a good job, he will probably leave to pursue a head coaching vacancy within a couple of years.
I've never understood this line of reasoning. Would you prefer someone that does not succeed? Having a chance at a promotion means you did your job well. We want people that do their job well.
I prefer Patricia.
But who the hell knows!
Who do you love? - ( New Window )
I have read as much as possible about both.
What give you the impression that Wilks does this better than Patrica?
Have you heard Matt Patricia?. He sounds like he has not hit puberty and has immaturity tendencies.
The Giants need a strong, "grown" head coach that can clean up McAdoo's mess and handle the Odells of this world.
As a fellow proud, bearded American, that's my tiebreaker. Just turn the hat around and get rid of the pencils. He looks like a carpenter.
Wilks obviously less tenured as a coordinator but as others have said, you don't want to take the opposite tack just because of the BM fiasco and lose out on a possible great hire. And he does have a working history with Gettleman.
Gun to my head: Wilks.
Wish the pick was between Matty P and Shurmur. Either would make me happy.
- Lots of respect from his players (see Boston article this morning), though Wilks checks this box too
- Tech savvy - makes coaches/players more efficient and thus gives them more time to focus on important aspects.
- Seems more likely to incorporate advanced analytics into weekly prep -> could provide significant advantages in terms of identifying tendencies of his team and the opposition.
I like a clean HC resume. I like a defensive hire. I like that linebackers will presumably once again be valued. I like that the chicken shit behavior that has pervaded this locker room will no longer be tolerated.
Have you heard Matt Patricia?. He sounds like he has not hit puberty and has immaturity tendencies.
The Giants need a strong, "grown" head coach that can clean up McAdoo's mess and handle the Odells of this world.
Patricia has a reputation to be a very good motivator and get the most out of his players.
Also he does not pull punches.
I get why people like Wilks he is an interesting candidate.
But people keep using this CEO quote.
Without any solid information to back it up
Plus anyone who pisses on Goodell gets bonus point with me.
I think it's incumbent on the front office to populate the locker room with professionals so the head coach can do his job and prepare his team for the opponent.
Get rid of our idiots so they can go infect other locker rooms.
Get a guy in here who doesnt who will breakdown the risk/reward with whatever player.
I like Patricia’s press profile but he’s only been with the Pats and that makes it very tough to know what he’ll do without Hoodie the GOAT, Tommy Uggs and the unbelievable luck of the Pats. I like that he’s coached both sides of the ball in the NFL. I’d be fine with Patricia but I think Wilks appears more qualified.
No idea how these guys interviewed, of course.
I think it's incumbent on the front office to populate the locker room with professionals so the head coach can do his job and prepare his team for the opponent.
Get rid of our idiots so they can go infect other locker rooms.
Give it a rest man. There was no leadership at all at the GM or HC level - that's where it starts. Your never ending crusade against players who post dumb stuff on Twitter is getting old.
And my, how BBIers love to steal the GM's words and regurgitate them at every opportunity to make them sound smart.
This is a much different 'first time head coach' than Ben McAdoo. It is always a risk, but I feel far more comfortable that someone like this is ready for the job. Look, all these successful head coaches had the 'first time head coach' label at one point too, right? So you have to start somewhere. I'm okay with this risk. It's a gamble but one that could seriously pay off.
This roster has a preponderance of jackasses on it. If you don't realize that you aren't paying attention.
It was time for both guys to go, but this team's problems didn't leave with them. And personally I'd rather the next coaching staff be more concerned with game plans than with babying the idiots on this roster. I imagine that coaching in the NFL is hard enough without managing immature, unprofessional fools.
Whereas with McAdoo, Sully. Reese, they didn't even see the nature of the problem.
He's 43, from Sherill NY originally. I'm sure that helps his appeal with Giants' brass.
He went to RPI (which the media never grows tired of telling us), played offensive line.
He then went to Amherst College as a Defensive line coach.
He then went on to coach the offensive line as a graduate assistant at Syracuse (insert obligatory line about how much the Giants love Syracuse players and coaches or something).
He started with the Pats in 2004, and has coached as an offensive assistant, assistant offensive line coach, linebackers coach, safeties coach, and defensive coordinator during his nearly 18 years there.
Maybe Patricia is his own guy. I like his resume, I like his roots. Everyone talks about his degree from RPI, but I think he's got more than book smarts. You don't go to RPI if you are an idiot. You don't coach at Amherst if you are an idiot, and you don't work for Bill Belichick for 14 years if you are an idiot.
Despite my reluctance over the past few weeks, I'd be very happy with Patricia.
The players need to take responsibility but it starts at the top. And it could have very well been under control here in 2016 and then Reese/McAdoo finally wore out their welcome. Not everything is a constant and there's a massive amount of information we don't have as to what goes on in a locker room.
But yeah, lets ship everyone out after a brutal season when McAdoo couldn't even come up with a competent gameplan let alone achieve respect in a locker room.
But I'll go Patricia. Maybe he's finally the Belichick coordinator who can stand on his own...
I'm so unimpressed by all of these candidates that maybe it's time to call Cowher... ;)
In fairness, while the New England is 29th in yards allowed, they were 5th in points allowed.
2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226
6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.
From what I read of Wilks, he might the better delegator. I also like Patricia's personality, and he has a track record of winning.
Hard to pick on the limited info I have.
2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226
6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.
So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.
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they are usually blowing teams out
2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226
6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.
So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.
But to be honest, an argument could be made that has always been Belichick's defense. I just looked it up and even the 86 Giants defense were 19th in pass defense but 2nd in points allowed. He's never really relied on total get after the QB or blitz happy defense. It's more about taking away the best offensive player and then adjusting the rest of the defense to whatever the opponent is doing, trying to limit the options of the QB so if they do move the ball they eventually stall out and have to either kick a field goal or turn it over on downs. I would imagine Patricia would bring the same concept seeing that he's run it the last 5 years.
I'm voting for Wilks so I'll never have to see your trite references to "Matty P" again.
I've just watched enough of the Pats over the years to respect how the defense operates and love what I read about Patricia's work with analytics and schemes.
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In comment 13783046 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
they are usually blowing teams out
2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226
6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.
So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.
But to be honest, an argument could be made that has always been Belichick's defense. I just looked it up and even the 86 Giants defense were 19th in pass defense but 2nd in points allowed. He's never really relied on total get after the QB or blitz happy defense. It's more about taking away the best offensive player and then adjusting the rest of the defense to whatever the opponent is doing, trying to limit the options of the QB so if they do move the ball they eventually stall out and have to either kick a field goal or turn it over on downs. I would imagine Patricia would bring the same concept seeing that he's run it the last 5 years.
They were 19th in pass defense for 2 reasons: 1) it was IMPOSSIBLE to run on them and 2) They played with the lead often.
I'm sold on his hype.
Let's do this Mara
Wilks 9
Either 4
I vote Patricia but would be ok with Wilks
Better question would be Wilks or Shurmur?
Patricia to Detroit is as bad of a secret as Shanahan to San Fran was last year.
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In comment 13783057 RottenApple said:
Quote:
In comment 13783046 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
they are usually blowing teams out
2017 -- +162
2016 -- +191
2015 -- +150
2014 -- +155
2013 -- +106
2012 -- +226
6 year average of +165 which is over 10 points per week. They have a bend but don't break defense. The last 4 years they have also ranked 12th, 4th, 5th, and 2nd in takeaway differential. A lot of that is due to Brady and the offense, of course, but the defense has been good IMO during his tenure. The Patriots also have a lot of home gown talent on D over the years and usually don't have a ton of high pick or pricey FA pro-bowlers. Add in his complete revamp of the teams analytics process and I don't think anyone can say he'd be undeserving of the HC role.
So, he has a "bend but don't break" defense? I've seen enough of those over the past few years, though it broke more than it bent.
But to be honest, an argument could be made that has always been Belichick's defense. I just looked it up and even the 86 Giants defense were 19th in pass defense but 2nd in points allowed. He's never really relied on total get after the QB or blitz happy defense. It's more about taking away the best offensive player and then adjusting the rest of the defense to whatever the opponent is doing, trying to limit the options of the QB so if they do move the ball they eventually stall out and have to either kick a field goal or turn it over on downs. I would imagine Patricia would bring the same concept seeing that he's run it the last 5 years.
They were 19th in pass defense for 2 reasons: 1) it was IMPOSSIBLE to run on them and 2) They played with the lead often.
Well that's fair. But a similar argument could be made about Patricia's Pats led defenses too. They play with the lead often. I don't know how good or not he would be, but I think there is more to it than just utilizing the Pats team defensive statistics under him. I do put stock into the fact that Belichick trusted him to run it for 5 seasons. That's not a short period of time in the NFL. And that is Belichick's specialty. If he trusted him with it for half a decade I do think that's noteworthy of his potential skillset as a coach.
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was the smartest man in the room too
We have a new room.
Must have been a room in an ant colony.
Wilks seems like a great guy, but how creative is he? His experience is thin, 1 year as coordinator? Who has he really learned under? Certainly not the GOAT. Leader of Men is great, but to me you need to be able to lead, and you need that intuitive ability, like Russel Crowe in a Beautiful Mind, to read between the lines, feel out situations, and with intelligence and engineering precision, expose opponents.
Patricia answers that bell for me, his defense always manages a way despite how much craziness and turnover there is year to year, even week to week.
Even still, while they allowed a lot of yards (which is the basis for that 19th ranking), it was on a lot of attempts (26th in passing attempts against), and they only allowed 15 passing TDs (3rd best in the league) versus 24 INTs (7th best). And they were 4th in sacks with 59. Actually I was surprised they were only 4th - San Diego was third with 62 which was pretty shocking, I didn't realize Leslie O'Neal was on that team already in 1986.
In 1990, with an excellent secondary (though much less of a pass rush) they were 6th in passing yards allowed, 2nd in passing TDs, 4th in INTs.
You do realize that seeing the field from the booth offers a much better view of the whole field, formations, schemes, movement, etc and makes the job much easier than being on the sideline, right? Plus, you've got your staff up there supporting you.
Just a dumb, dumb argument as to why you don't like Wilks.
That said, I'd take Patricia over him.
And if you don’t think any of that makes a difference, fine, enjoy your opinion but do so knowing you’re ignoring history. There have been instances when NFL HCs have asked their D-cos to come down from the skybox and coach from the sidelines. In fact, this was an issue when TC was here and wanted D-co Bill Sheridan to coach from the sideline while BS wanted to be in the box. Later when Fewell took over for BS a big point was made in the press of how PF was going to be on the sidelines. PF himself commented how he preferred to be on the sidelines. Now, I was no fan of PF but that instance alone means those talking smack that skybox or sideline makes no difference might actually be wrong. If it mattered to TC then maybe there’s something to it.
As well, I believe this tends to be less of an issue with O-cos which may be why Ron Erhardt and many other O-cos have called and continue to call plays from the box. D-cos can, and obviously do coach from the box, but they are the exception not the rule and I wonder if maybe there’s a reason for that?
Even still, while they allowed a lot of yards (which is the basis for that 19th ranking), it was on a lot of attempts (26th in passing attempts against), and they only allowed 15 passing TDs (3rd best in the league) versus 24 INTs (7th best). And they were 4th in sacks with 59. Actually I was surprised they were only 4th - San Diego was third with 62 which was pretty shocking, I didn't realize Leslie O'Neal was on that team already in 1986.
In 1990, with an excellent secondary (though much less of a pass rush) they were 6th in passing yards allowed, 2nd in passing TDs, 4th in INTs.
Pretty sure Collins was a starter by mid-season, but your overall point is correct. Also a great pass rush makes the secondary better.
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Do not like that he chose to coach from the booth
Wish the pick was between Matty P and Shurmur. Either would make me happy.
You have clearly never called a football game as a DC. Trust me, calling defense from booth is MUCH better for some coaches. Has nothing to do with speaking to players and everything to do with seeing the opposing team. When you call a defense you often are looking for specifics by the offense. Its easier to look for yourself then to ask another set of eyes to look for you.
Tells me he's an x's and o's guy over motivation and feel for the game. Landry was more x's and o's Parcells was more motivation and feel.
And you are correct! I have never called a football game as a DC on any level :)