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NFT: Yankee thread: Why not deal for Nova rather than Cole ?

Ron from Ninerland : 1/11/2018 1:58 pm
While Cole is an overpriced crapshoot, we know that Nova can pitch here. He pitches a lot of innings and his ERA was a little over 4 last year. He may be only a #4 or #5 but thats really all we need. The rotation as its stands is CC, Tanaka, Severino, Gray and Montgomery. If Cole comes here who drops out ? With Nova, he can be made the long man if the top 5 stay healthy. Nova is under $10 mil a year and has only a couple of years left on his contract.
Eh  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 1:59 pm : link
I'm not sure why I'd rather see Nova in the rotation than Montgomery.
If I recall, he had an awful 2nd half last year.  
yatqb : 1/11/2018 2:04 pm : link
.
THe Yanks want Cole and can't get it done with PIT  
adamg : 1/11/2018 2:08 pm : link
Every indication is that PIT is just a pain in the ass to try to deal with. I would be surprised if any deal could get done.

But I'd really rather not give up anything to get a 5th starter. We'd be better of getting a look at Adams imo.
Older and not as good  
GFAN52 : 1/11/2018 2:08 pm : link
.
Ok and who is the lock down  
Giant John : 1/11/2018 2:10 pm : link
#1 in that group? There is nobody.
No way, dont want Nova  
DennyInDenville : 1/11/2018 2:13 pm : link
We have enough arms

Let's see if Darvish takes a discount otherwise I'm good

Sevy, Tanaka, Gray, Cc, Monty plus some live arms in the minors.. Cessa is gonna be a stud long man imo. Or the new chad green
meh. I'd rather wait and see what happens with the 5 starters  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2018 2:17 pm : link
and the gorup coming up (Adams, Sheffield, Abreu). None of these guys rumored to be on the trading block strike me as a "must have" difference maker.
RE: Ok and who is the lock down  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13783226 Giant John said:
Quote:
#1 in that group? There is nobody.


If you don't think Severino is a #1, then by your standards there are maybe 5 of them total in all of MLB.
No to Nova  
Stan in LA : 1/11/2018 2:22 pm : link
Been there, done that.
RE: RE: Ok and who is the lock down  
section125 : 1/11/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13783251 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13783226 Giant John said:


Quote:


#1 in that group? There is nobody.



If you don't think Severino is a #1, then by your standards there are maybe 5 of them total in all of MLB.


What was Tanaka's ERA in the Post Season? 0.90? That may be worthy of being called lock down, when you do it against the best.....

That's 2.
I would love Archer  
Neckbone1333 : 1/11/2018 2:25 pm : link
With this offense and bullpen.

I think with our offense, he could be really good and get the run support. Also, with our bullpen depth, he could pitch less innings and not have to go through the order a third time around, where he usually loses it.

In addition, his controllability is much better than Cole. Just sucks the asking price is so high.
First  
PaulN : 1/11/2018 2:27 pm : link
Nova is not that good, what would he do to improve the team? Nothing is the answer, he would be depth, and nothing more then that. Cole is a guy that at one point was a top of the rotation guy with Cy Young potential, plus was a Cy Young candidate one season, his ERA's have always been under 4 except for last season, he still has potential and upside, you get none of these things from nova, like I said he is depth. Would he beat out Montgomery for the 5th spot in the rotation? The honest answer is maybe to that question, we really don't know. Cole would probably slot in any spot other than the top spot and the 5th spot. He has the potential to be your best starter. The other thing is he is signed for 2 more seasons at a very reasonable price, not certain but he may cost less then Nova, although I haven't looked that up.
Cole  
PaulN : 1/11/2018 2:39 pm : link
Is in his second season of arbitration, Nova is at a little less then 9.2 mil, so Cole will cost less.
Archer hasn't been all that good lately either  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2018 2:41 pm : link
His past two seasons were very ordinary.
I don't understand the allure of Cole  
Ron from Ninerland : 1/11/2018 2:48 pm : link
Yes, he had a great season in 2015, since then he has not been good. Somebody is going to have to remind me of what other pitcher gave up 31 jacks( which translates to 45 in the AL East ) in one year. Countless pitchers have had one or two good seasons that then flamed out.

It almost makes me wonder of the real rational behind the proposed deal is that Cashman has decided that Frazier is not that good and is looking to dump him.
RE: Archer hasn't been all that good lately either  
Neckbone1333 : 1/11/2018 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13783299 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
His past two seasons were very ordinary.


Heís given over 200 innings 3 years straight and Kís have been nice.

Check his stats first 2 times through the lineup. I know this doesnít tell the whole story, but if he can go 6 per game, he would be more effective.
I think itís gonna  
Phil in LA : 1/11/2018 3:36 pm : link
Be Manny and Tanaka and 2 of 3 contracts moved.
RE: I think itís gonna  
LarmerTJR : 1/11/2018 4:04 pm : link
Phil

I am not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?

In comment 13783372 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Be Manny and Tanaka and 2 of 3 contracts moved.
RE: RE: I think itís gonna  
Stan in LA : 1/11/2018 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13783450 LarmerTJR said:
Quote:
Phil

I am not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?

In comment 13783372 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


Be Manny and Tanaka and 2 of 3 contracts moved.

Quote:
UPDATE: I think the time when teams and players start approaching arbitration dates is nigh, so we could see some of these younger guys like Machado and Cole traded in the next few days. I happen to think the Yanks have turned attention to Manny, and moving another salary to make room for a free agent starter, rather than making one trade for Manny and then another for Cole or someone. I think they'll have to move Ellsbury (please!) or Gardy or Robertson to make room for Manny's arb salary as well as what they'd need to sign Darvish or whomever. Of course, Gardy and Robertson are true Yanks, so let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Link - ( New Window )
I'd pass on both Cole and Nova  
Matt M. : 1/11/2018 4:23 pm : link
As others have said, I'm fine with Montgomery as #4 or #5. As is, we have a decent rotation with the addition of Gray. Personally, I wouldn't be bringing back CC. He had a nice season and good second half the year before. But, I just have this feeling that precipitous slide is coming. I like the adage about it being better to get rid of a guy a year too early than a year too late.
RE: RE: RE: I think itís gonna  
LarmerTJR : 1/11/2018 4:34 pm : link
Stan

Thank you, makes perfect sense. Much appreciated.

In comment 13783470 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13783450 LarmerTJR said:


Quote:


Phil

I am not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?

In comment 13783372 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


Be Manny and Tanaka and 2 of 3 contracts moved.





Quote:


UPDATE: I think the time when teams and players start approaching arbitration dates is nigh, so we could see some of these younger guys like Machado and Cole traded in the next few days. I happen to think the Yanks have turned attention to Manny, and moving another salary to make room for a free agent starter, rather than making one trade for Manny and then another for Cole or someone. I think they'll have to move Ellsbury (please!) or Gardy or Robertson to make room for Manny's arb salary as well as what they'd need to sign Darvish or whomever. Of course, Gardy and Robertson are true Yanks, so let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Link - ( New Window )
IMO ....  
Beer Man : 1/11/2018 4:55 pm : link
The team has near ready Pitcher at AAA that are all better than Nova. I wouldn't waste any of the farm talent to trade for him.
The Machado scenario seems like a pipe-dream  
GuzzaBlue : 1/12/2018 10:25 am : link
Why would the Orioles ever ship him to the yanks. I'd think they'd take less in the deal in order to prevent that.
RE: The Machado scenario seems like a pipe-dream  
rich in DC : 1/12/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13784492 GuzzaBlue said:
Quote:
Why would the Orioles ever ship him to the yanks. I'd think they'd take less in the deal in order to prevent that.


I agree.

With that said, I think that the Yanks might actually be targeting Machado as a mid-season acquisition. I DO think Machado gets traded- just not to the Yanks. I think the O's will do their best to make sure he ends up in the NL so they don't have to deal with having him come to Baltimore during the season.

Just hypothetically, let's say that the O's trade Machado to the DBacks this winter. If the DBacks are struggling or they are on the margins of the race, the Yanks could come in and "overpay" in a trade for Machado.

Since Machado is a FA after 2018, the O's best return is likely 2 good players or prospects. The Yanks could come back to that team in July and offer two options: 1) take Didi and a very good prospect for Machado, or 2) take Frazier and a top SP prospect for Machado.

Both of those offers would probably exceed whatever the other team originally paid for Machado- and allow them to come out ahead overall. The Yanks have the depth to absorb a prospect expensive trade like that.

The Yanks might have to make a vet salary dump deal to fit Machado under the luxury tax line even in a mid-season trade, but they probably would do that deal every time.
Here's why I think what I think  
Phil in LA : 1/12/2018 12:23 pm : link
Since the New Year, the idea that the Orioles might take Ellsbury if the Yanks gave them enough money was circulated, the Yanks checked back in on Machado, the Cole to the Yankees talk stopped, the Darvish to the Yankees talk started. The Cole to the Astros deal was floated, probably by the Pirates. Other Machado suitors have fallen away.

So I think the Yanks have taken the pieces they were offering to the Pirates, maybe plus more pitching, to the O's. The Yanks can make more room for Darvish, if they need to and still stay under. The Pirates might have overplayed their hand.

The more prudent thing is probably to wait on Manny's free agency  
bceagle05 : 1/12/2018 1:44 pm : link
but to hell with that - IF Baltimore is willing to do business (unlikely, in my opinion), I hope Cash gets it done. An infield of Machado-Didi-Gleyber-Bird-Sanchez has been my dream for awhile now.

I have no doubt the Yankees put the best trade offer on the table.
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