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About Webb: It's as simple as this...

Blue Angel : 1/11/2018 4:00 pm
If the Giants pick a QB in the first round then Webb is NOT in their future plans but if the do not pick a QB in the first round, Webb is our future QB, it is a simple as that. It would not make sense for the Giants to let two young QBs, one of them a very high first rounder to fight it out for the future starter of the franchise.
None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 1/11/2018 4:02 pm : link
We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.
Agree with that.  
TC : 1/11/2018 4:10 pm : link
Sifting the tea leaves, Gettleman's remarks on drafting a QB make me suspect that this will be the Giants' pick at #2.
JOSH ALLEN has better Pro Intangibles  
Elite Mobster #32 : 1/11/2018 4:11 pm : link
.
Neither is necessarily true.  
Section331 : 1/11/2018 4:12 pm : link
They could draft a QB to compete with Webb, or conversely, they may not see Webb as a future NFL QB, but don't consider any of the available QB's as worthy of the #2 pick.
I don't think you can make that claim ...  
Beer Man : 1/11/2018 4:13 pm : link
IMO, it is more likely:
1. If the team doesn't go QB they are convinced Webb is can be the real deal

2. If the team goes QB, they haven't seen enough of Webb to feel comfortable with him as the future, and are bringing in competition (let the best guy win)

Sort of like when the Chargers had a young Drew Brees (years back), weren't confident he could take the team all the way, and drafted Eli (who was immediately traded for Rivers)

Doesn't hurt to have competition and options at the most important position on the O.
Did you reach that conclusion  
Gross Blau Oberst : 1/11/2018 4:13 pm : link
all on your own? Momma must be so proud.
This is dumb  
djstat : 1/11/2018 4:14 pm : link
Why not have two QB's? Two young ones?
This is all true  
Alwaysblue22 : 1/11/2018 4:15 pm : link
Yet there are many fans who absurdly believe that we can take a Qb at 2 who will step right in and be better than Eli Manning. This is the rationale for taking another QB, Eli is suppose to be too old and is now toast. Will any of these college kids be able to read an NFL defense better than Eli? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So who gives us the best chance to win in 2019? That would be ELI MANNING....unless you want to wait two or three years before we are a playoff team again. I do not believe we need to do more other than to balance out the roster this spring during the FAs period and the draft to be able to contend again with Eli Manning. Eli is miles better than Blake Bortles of the Jaguars. Right now Davis Webb has a better grasp of NFL defenses than any of the QBs in this draft. Lets plug the holes and get back in contention in 2019 and not start over again. Its not necessary.
if they go BPA I agree with that assessment  
Giants_West : 1/11/2018 4:16 pm : link
However if they trade back and accumulate future first round picks than it is entirely possible they are just kicking the can down the road as they will have a fair degree of mobility in next years draft and it would be reasonable for them to target a prospect likely to be available in the 5-12 range for instance like Mahomes was this past april April.
I just listened to a youtube video with PDOT  
Tom from LI : 1/11/2018 4:16 pm : link
Beningo and Roberts.

He thinks the Giants are going to trade out of the pick and stay with Eli and then transition to Webb.

its a week old.. take it for what its worth.
PDOT - ( New Window )
Horrible conclusion  
UberAlias : 1/11/2018 4:18 pm : link
If they don’t draft a QB it’s because they don’t think any are franchise QBs. It has nothing to do with Webb. He’s a 3 rd round project who has yet to see the field. If teams saw him as any more than a project with potential he doesn’t last until 3 rd round. No way does this new group commit to he. Based on what? What the guys they fired might have thought on a few practice reps? If we hire anyone that irresponsible, god help us.
Someone didn't listen to DG's own words  
JonC : 1/11/2018 4:20 pm : link
Webb is looking like the #3 QB as of April 26.
Gettleman's remarks strongly implied that . . . .  
TC : 1/11/2018 4:21 pm : link
he views this year as the Giants' best shot to draft a QB without having to trade up. I'm not saying something else can't happen, but that's what I expect until I learn otherwise. If so, that of course implies that the Giants' feel that at the least they will benefit from giving Webb competition.
Tell that to  
Jolly Blue Giant : 1/11/2018 4:22 pm : link
Kirk Cousins
What people are you talking about?  
twostepgiants : 1/11/2018 4:23 pm : link
The whole Webb discussion on BBI is insane

We fired the guy who scouted him, we fired the guy who drafted him and we fired the guy who coached him.

Gettleman and our new HC have not seen Davis Webb.
RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
chopperhatch : 1/11/2018 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.


Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.
What people are you talking about?  
twostepgiants : 1/11/2018 4:29 pm : link
The whole Webb discussion on BBI is insane

We fired the guy who scouted him, we fired the guy who drafted him and we fired the guy who coached him.

Gettleman and our new HC have not seen Davis Webb.
RE: Agree with that.  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2018 4:30 pm : link
In comment 13783458 TC said:
Quote:
Sifting the tea leaves, Gettleman's remarks on drafting a QB make me suspect that this will be the Giants' pick at #2.

I interpreted DG's remarks as exactly the opposite of this. If you build up the rest of your roster and don't go after your potential franchise QB when you have the chance, you end up with a roster that finishes somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7 with no real present/future QB. That's the "QB hell" that I took DG's comments to mean.

Acknowledging how damaging it can be to miss on a QB pick early in the draft is different than not picking a QB, IMO.
RE: I just listened to a youtube video with PDOT  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2018 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13783474 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
Beningo and Roberts.

He thinks the Giants are going to trade out of the pick and stay with Eli and then transition to Webb.

its a week old.. take it for what its worth. PDOT - ( New Window )

Might as well be four months old - that's been Dottino's stance (with regard to Eli and Webb, at least) all along no matter how much the other factors have changed.
RE: This is all true  
Bill in UT : 1/11/2018 4:33 pm : link
In comment 13783468 Alwaysblue22 said:
Quote:
Yet there are many fans who absurdly believe that we can take a Qb at 2 who will step right in and be better than Eli Manning. This is the rationale for taking another QB, Eli is suppose to be too old and is now toast. Will any of these college kids be able to read an NFL defense better than Eli? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So who gives us the best chance to win in 2019? That would be ELI MANNING....unless you want to wait two or three years before we are a playoff team again. I do not believe we need to do more other than to balance out the roster this spring during the FAs period and the draft to be able to contend again with Eli Manning. Eli is miles better than Blake Bortles of the Jaguars. Right now Davis Webb has a better grasp of NFL defenses than any of the QBs in this draft. Lets plug the holes and get back in contention in 2019 and not start over again. Its not necessary.


The point isn't whether a new kid is better than Eli. The point is whether Gettleman thinks Eli is good enough to take the Giants to the Super Bowl, all things being equal. If he doesn't consider Eli to be top rate, it makes no sense to play him to have an 8-8 or even 9-7, one and done season instead of a 4-12 with a rookie. We're better off letting a kid start from day one and getting an additional year under his belt, even if it means sacrificing some games in the short run. At least imo
Even if they draft a qb  
ron mexico : 1/11/2018 4:34 pm : link
He could be in their plans as a backup
Why a binary choice?  
KeoweeFan : 1/11/2018 4:40 pm : link
The Giants had four QBs in the spring.
I can easily envision a scenario where in the first game of the season Eli gets hurt (even if only for a few snaps) and Davis would be the best bet at that time to finish that game.
He has had a year to learn the system and went through a season of practices with the Giants.
That says NOTHING about whether or not any QB would eventually take over.
Hmmmm...  
Miamijints : 1/11/2018 4:48 pm : link
Height/Weight:
Davis Webb: 6'5 229 (Combine)
Josh Rosen: 6'4 218 (Unofficial)
Sam Darnold: 6'4 220 (Unofficial)
Josh Allen: 6'5 233 (Unofficial)
Baker Mayfield: 6'1 220 (Unofficial)
Lamar Jackson: 6'3 211 (Unofficial)
Mason Rudolph: 6'5 230 (Unofficial)


Final year stats:

Davis Webb 2016: Comp ATT PCT YDS AVG TD INT RAT
362 620 61.6 4295 6.9 37 12 135.6


Josh Rosen 2017:
283 452 62.6 3756 8.3 26 10 147.0

Sam Darnold 2017:
303 480 63.1 4143 8.6 26 13 148.1

Josh Allen 2017:
152 270 56.3 1812 6.7 16 6 127.8

Baker Mayfield:
285 404 70.5 4627 11.5 43 6 198.9

Lamar Jackson:
254 430 59.1 3660 8.5 27 10 146.6

Mason Rudolph:
318 489 65.0 4904 10.0 37 9 170.6

Imo Webb's numbers are not bad compared to the Rosen, Darnold. I think Webb showed some good stuff in the NE preseason game. I'd actually be interested in Rudolph top of the 2nd if he is there.


Not Webb's fault  
Sect 146 : 1/11/2018 4:52 pm : link
that he did not play this season and it is not indicative of his talent. This was more of a reflection of how STUPID the coach and GM were and some half-baked notion that Geno Smith would be some kind of savior if Eli went down. I feel this was one of the contributing factors of when both those guys got CANNED.

All Webb did was come in, say all the right things, work his tail off at what they allowed him to do, and show the organization he could be a professional. Can he play? Is he franchise material? No one knows at this point either way, but I would bet he gets a chance to prove it next year one way or the other.
This is why it was soo stupid to not let Webb  
Rflairr : 1/11/2018 4:53 pm : link
Start those 4 games.

Now you have a new GM, that has nothing to go on to know whether or not Webb is the real deal. Can he know for sure from just scout team tape?

RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
lax counsel : 1/11/2018 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13783493 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.



Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.


Has there ever been a player on a team that's benefited more from not playing with a fan base than Webb. The amount that this guy is substantially overrated is really something.

Also, I assume that you haven't watched any of Webb's 2016 game tape. No, not his 2016 highlight tape, but the actually films charting all of his throws. If you had, you'd realize comments 1 and 4 aren't even remotely accurate. He, in fact, cannot make all the throws, he is seriously flawed on throws consistently over 10 yards. There are way too many instances where his throws are closer to the opposing CB than his own receiver. He also has a tremendous amount of difficulty reading a defense. He will throw to his first read even if there is a CB directly on the route.

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.)
RE: This is why it was soo stupid to not let Webb  
Rocky369 : 1/11/2018 5:07 pm : link
In comment 13783544 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Start those 4 games.

Now you have a new GM, that has nothing to go on to know whether or not Webb is the real deal. Can he know for sure from just scout team tape?

The ones making that decision are no longer making those decisions.
Not saying to pass on QB  
Sect 146 : 1/11/2018 5:07 pm : link
this year but the OP says a new QB and Webb cannot/should not even battle it out next season. I disagree with that and think Webb at least deserves a shot. Do you think he cannot learn to read defenses? Maybe develop pocket presence? You think he could be a good backup??
RE: RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
Jim in Tampa : 1/11/2018 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13783564 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 13783493 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.



Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.



Has there ever been a player on a team that's benefited more from not playing with a fan base than Webb. The amount that this guy is substantially overrated is really something.

Also, I assume that you haven't watched any of Webb's 2016 game tape. No, not his 2016 highlight tape, but the actually films charting all of his throws. If you had, you'd realize comments 1 and 4 aren't even remotely accurate. He, in fact, cannot make all the throws, he is seriously flawed on throws consistently over 10 yards. There are way too many instances where his throws are closer to the opposing CB than his own receiver. He also has a tremendous amount of difficulty reading a defense. He will throw to his first read even if there is a CB directly on the route.

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.)


Well said.

Plus there's a reason Webb was drafted in the 3rd round and our own Sy projects Webb as having an outside chance to start, but much more likely a career clipboard holder.
For  
AcidTest : 1/11/2018 5:09 pm : link
the last time, this isn't just about Webb. It's also about the QBs available at #2. Even if the Giants think Webb sucks, that doesn't mean they will take a QB at #2. All those QBs have serious questions.

Webb has also had a year in an NFL system.

In addition, it isn't Webb vs. Rosen, Darnold, or Allen. It's Webb plus the bevy of draft picks we get by trading down vs. Rosen, Darnold, or Allen.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants took a QB at #2. But people are acting is if it is or should be a given.
RE: RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
Miamijints : 1/11/2018 5:09 pm : link
In comment 13783564 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 13783493 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.



Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.



Has there ever been a player on a team that's benefited more from not playing with a fan base than Webb. The amount that this guy is substantially overrated is really something.

Also, I assume that you haven't watched any of Webb's 2016 game tape. No, not his 2016 highlight tape, but the actually films charting all of his throws. If you had, you'd realize comments 1 and 4 aren't even remotely accurate. He, in fact, cannot make all the throws, he is seriously flawed on throws consistently over 10 yards. There are way too many instances where his throws are closer to the opposing CB than his own receiver. He also has a tremendous amount of difficulty reading a defense. He will throw to his first read even if there is a CB directly on the route.

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.)


So Lax where's the link to that film that charts all his throws? Or are a scout with access to ALL 22 tape? And btw I liked Kerry Collins.
...  
christian : 1/11/2018 5:18 pm : link
It's very difficult to understand how playing Eli Manning 100% of the snaps in 5/6 after the team was eliminated was a good call.

After the veritable pants crapping when he was approached to sit, I get why.

I just don't get how no one had the guts to do it.
RE: Why a binary choice?  
batman11 : 1/11/2018 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13783525 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
The Giants had four QBs in the spring.
I can easily envision a scenario where in the first game of the season Eli gets hurt (even if only for a few snaps) and Davis would be the best bet at that time to finish that game.
He has had a year to learn the system and went through a season of practices with the Giants.
That says NOTHING about whether or not any QB would eventually take over.


What and whose "system" are you referring to? They do not have a HC or OC..... Whoever put the prior "system" in place is gone.
Don't see  
OC2.0 : 1/11/2018 5:25 pm : link
A QB at 2. If they want 1 rd2/3 imo
Maybe they believe Webb has a chance of being that guy  
steve in ky : 1/11/2018 5:27 pm : link
but simply aren't convinced enough to gamble the future of the franchises on it. Having two young QB's pushing each other to take over for Eli only helps both of them and increases the chance of the Giants getting at least one that pulls it off.
RE: RE: RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
lax counsel : 1/11/2018 5:27 pm : link
In comment 13783586 Miamijints said:
Quote:
In comment 13783564 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 13783493 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.



Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.



Has there ever been a player on a team that's benefited more from not playing with a fan base than Webb. The amount that this guy is substantially overrated is really something.

Also, I assume that you haven't watched any of Webb's 2016 game tape. No, not his 2016 highlight tape, but the actually films charting all of his throws. If you had, you'd realize comments 1 and 4 aren't even remotely accurate. He, in fact, cannot make all the throws, he is seriously flawed on throws consistently over 10 yards. There are way too many instances where his throws are closer to the opposing CB than his own receiver. He also has a tremendous amount of difficulty reading a defense. He will throw to his first read even if there is a CB directly on the route.

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.)



So Lax where's the link to that film that charts all his throws? Or are a scout with access to ALL 22 tape? And btw I liked Kerry Collins.



YouTube has nearly all of his 2016 game films with all of his throws, they are 10 minute clips for the most part. Not hard to find. They are not highlight tapes, it is all of his throws.
The  
mitch300 : 1/11/2018 5:32 pm : link
Giants know more about Webb than any of the guys in the draft. Webb also had the opportunity to be under Elis wing for a whole season. I love the people on BBI who just say draft a QB and let him and Webb fight it out. It's not like the Giants do not need any other players and the roster is set. I say trade the pick and build up the roster with needed talent.
It s not as simple as that  
joeinpa : 1/11/2018 5:36 pm : link
Giants draft a quarterback in first round, he still has to be better than Webb.

It would be ideal to have two young quarterbacks competing for the job

Better chance to fine the right guy if there are two instead of one
RE: Tell that to  
Rong5611 : 1/11/2018 6:05 pm : link
Exactly. Webb could still win the job.

In comment 13783486 Jolly Blue Giant said:
Quote:
Kirk Cousins
Me still thinks Mason Rudolph turns out to be the best of the bunch.  
Spider56 : 1/11/2018 6:21 pm : link
The senior bowl should be interesting
Me still thinks Mason Rudolph turns out to be the best of the bunch.  
Spider56 : 1/11/2018 6:21 pm : link
The senior bowl should be interesting
Apologies  
Spider56 : 1/11/2018 6:22 pm : link
For the redundant post.
RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
mrvax : 1/11/2018 6:25 pm : link
In comment 13783493 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.



Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.



Good job Chopper. Plus, they could ask Eli how has Webb progressed, what his needs still are, etc. Manning will know.

Webb may develop into a solid backup.
Gettlemans remarks on drafting a QB  
Adirondack GMen : 1/11/2018 6:32 pm : link
Gettleman's remarks on drafting a QB make me suspect that this will be the Giants' pick at #2. Not so fast!!!
Could this be a play to get more picks from more desperate teams who think we will pick their QB? Could the conversation go something like this: hi Dave, look you have Eli and the Webb kid we need a QB and want to take (X) we would be willing to give you the following ( #,#,#,#). Dave replies: we really want that kid and it will take more than that offer- especially since the Jets, Bill (or whom ever) have offered us a sweeter deal.

Now to set the stage for that trade we have laid out the uncertainty of the skill set Webb has. Here's my take on why "WE" don't know how well Webb would do on Sunday's ... Since Webb came on board do you think he has been working out in an underground bunker? His every move/ throws/ steps has been tracked and evaluated. So the "WE" who don't know what we have is just we the fans and the rest if the NFL. The Giants organization know exactly what they have and aren't willing to share the info nor make his skills public.
That's my take on why Webb didn't see game action even during mop up time. I have to believe Gettleman is a good horse trader and he's been briefed on what we have. Additionally, wasn't DG the GM durning last years draft? So he should have a good understanding of Webb's numbers and production as a collegiate player. This is why I am letting DG set the stage for a good ol' fashion horse trade.
To horse trading- Dilly Dilly
Just my take...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
chopperhatch : 1/11/2018 6:37 pm : link
In comment 13783624 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 13783586 Miamijints said:


Quote:


In comment 13783564 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 13783493 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.



Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.



Has there ever been a player on a team that's benefited more from not playing with a fan base than Webb. The amount that this guy is substantially overrated is really something.

Also, I assume that you haven't watched any of Webb's 2016 game tape. No, not his 2016 highlight tape, but the actually films charting all of his throws. If you had, you'd realize comments 1 and 4 aren't even remotely accurate. He, in fact, cannot make all the throws, he is seriously flawed on throws consistently over 10 yards. There are way too many instances where his throws are closer to the opposing CB than his own receiver. He also has a tremendous amount of difficulty reading a defense. He will throw to his first read even if there is a CB directly on the route.

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.)



So Lax where's the link to that film that charts all his throws? Or are a scout with access to ALL 22 tape? And btw I liked Kerry Collins.




YouTube has nearly all of his 2016 game films with all of his throws, they are 10 minute clips for the most part. Not hard to find. They are not highlight tapes, it is all of his throws.


No I did not watch all of his GAME TAPES, I read the scouting reports on the guy coming out. That is really all. But please, feel free to condescendingly presume that the only stuff I know about him is from highlight reels with hip hop or metal playing in the background.

I also kinda doubt you watched all of that film and even if you did, what qualifies your opinion to be more respected than that of people who are paid to write this stuff? I read that his flaws were:

1) playing in a spread offense
2) being robotic in his reads
3) had some trouble throwing to the sidelines
4)wasn't asked to throw downfield very much

Numbers 3 and 4 were the MAJOR reason why he dropped to the 3rd round.

Lastly, how exactly did I OVERRATE the guy? I did not rate him at all. I listed the reasons why some people were high on him and stated that he definitely has the measurables and apparently the work ethic to be a good NFL qb. If he stinks as a QB, how exactly is it going back to the QB quagmire of the 90s? We ELECTED to go with those guys instead of drafting the right guy. Webb fails after a year or two, we will draft another QB. Period. Yes, I want a QB. No I don't want to invest in a QB that we are tied to for 5 years and have to rely on him turning it around like the Rams had to deal with in Bradford and the Fins have to with Tannehill.

By the way, many of the flaws you highlighted (which fly in the face of many scouting reports) are fixable with the right coaching.

RE: It s not as simple as that  
chopperhatch : 1/11/2018 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13783645 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Giants draft a quarterback in first round, he still has to be better than Webb.

It would be ideal to have two young quarterbacks competing for the job

Better chance to fine the right guy if there are two instead of one



Joe, we finally agree, lol. But it makes way too much sense for this group.

Darnold, or trade down.
RE: RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
dancing blue bear : 1/11/2018 6:42 pm : link

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.) [/quote]

The irony here is that that parade of QBs was set off NOT by passing on a QB

It was actually set off by overdrafting Dave Brown with a first round pick, then throwing good money after bad.

(cutting Simms was also mixed into that equation)


The "haunting decision" was drafting a QB. not passing on one

carrry on ....
RE: RE: RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
chopperhatch : 1/11/2018 7:30 pm : link
In comment 13783749 dancing blue bear said:
Quote:

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.)


The irony here is that that parade of QBs was set off NOT by passing on a QB

It was actually set off by overdrafting Dave Brown with a first round pick, then throwing good money after bad.

(cutting Simms was also mixed into that equation)


The "haunting decision" was drafting a QB. not passing on one

carrry on .... [/quote]


Boom
RGiii and Cousins. Enough said.  
Ivan15 : 1/11/2018 7:33 pm : link
.
RE: I don't think you can make that claim ...  
Ron from Ninerland : 1/11/2018 7:41 pm : link
In comment 13783462 Beer Man said:
Quote:


Sort of like when the Chargers had a young Drew Brees (years back), weren't confident he could take the team all the way, and drafted Eli (who was immediately traded for Rivers)

Doesn't hurt to have competition and options at the most important position on the O.

Thats not the way I remember it. They had just gone 4-12 with Brees. The Chargers, being the Chargers blamed Brees, thought he was a bust and were in the process of running him out of town.
RE: This is all true  
DonnieD89 : 1/11/2018 7:42 pm : link
In comment 13783468 Alwaysblue22 said:
Quote:
Yet there are many fans who absurdly believe that we can take a Qb at 2 who will step right in and be better than Eli Manning. This is the rationale for taking another QB, Eli is suppose to be too old and is now toast. Will any of these college kids be able to read an NFL defense better than Eli? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So who gives us the best chance to win in 2019? That would be ELI MANNING....unless you want to wait two or three years before we are a playoff team again. I do not believe we need to do more other than to balance out the roster this spring during the FAs period and the draft to be able to contend again with Eli Manning. Eli is miles better than Blake Bortles of the Jaguars. Right now Davis Webb has a better grasp of NFL defenses than any of the QBs in this draft. Lets plug the holes and get back in contention in 2019 and not start over again. Its not necessary.


Very good comment. Eli is likely going nowhere’s. Nobody talks about drafting a quarterback this high and letting him sit all year and paying them big dollars. It could well happen; however, it’s not a good investment for the first year or maybe the second year. In my opinion, Eli is going nowhere’s and they still have a good team with him. The Oline is the problem.
RE: For  
DonnieD89 : 1/11/2018 7:51 pm : link
In comment 13783585 AcidTest said:
Quote:
the last time, this isn't just about Webb. It's also about the QBs available at #2. Even if the Giants think Webb sucks, that doesn't mean they will take a QB at #2. All those QBs have serious questions.

Webb has also had a year in an NFL system.

In addition, it isn't Webb vs. Rosen, Darnold, or Allen. It's Webb plus the bevy of draft picks we get by trading down vs. Rosen, Darnold, or Allen.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants took a QB at #2. But people are acting is if it is or should be a given.


Agree. I love how people on this board think in absolutes.
If Shurmur is our new head coach....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/11/2018 8:22 pm : link
...,Case Keenum will be our starting QB.
Here's my take . . .  
Bill in TN : 1/11/2018 8:47 pm : link
All hinges on Eli. If you keep him, drafting another young QB for him to babysit is a terrible use of resources. The top picks this year MUST translate into starters, not sit on the bench or carry clipboards.
If you want a QB, then move on from Eli and play the kid from the get go.
If you keep Eli, then plan to develop Webb as the backup, and take a blue chipper at 2 or trade down.
Having 3 QBs on the roster is not a good use of resources.
RE: RE: I don't think you can make that claim ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2018 9:04 pm : link
In comment 13783884 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
In comment 13783462 Beer Man said:


Quote:




Sort of like when the Chargers had a young Drew Brees (years back), weren't confident he could take the team all the way, and drafted Eli (who was immediately traded for Rivers)

Doesn't hurt to have competition and options at the most important position on the O.


Thats not the way I remember it. They had just gone 4-12 with Brees. The Chargers, being the Chargers blamed Brees, thought he was a bust and were in the process of running him out of town.

Except that Brees went 11-4 (sat out week 17) and 9-7 the next two years, and then Brees hurt his shoulder severely in week 17 of the 2005 season, and that gave the Chargers the opportunity to transition over to Rivers. IIRC, Brees was scheduled to be a FA anyway that offseason, so that's probably how it would have played out regardless, but there was no running out of town.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: None of these QBs are sure fire NFL winners  
lax counsel : 1/11/2018 11:46 pm : link
In comment 13783740 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13783624 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 13783586 Miamijints said:


Quote:


In comment 13783564 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 13783493 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 13783443 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


We literally know nothing about Webb. They could draft Rosen and it's possible...remotely possible that Webb could end up being the better QB. But we have no idea right know.



Not to nitpick, but this is not accurate. Not in the LITERAL sense of knowing nothing about Webb.

We know:

1) That he has arm strength to make all the throws

2) That he picked up a new system at Cal very quickly

3) That he is apparently willing to put in the work...coming in very early to the facility and leaving later than most if not all the other players

4) Seemingly had good pocket awareness in college

That's not knowing NOTHING about Webb. I think it is more accurate to say that we LITERALLY KNOW NOTHING about how far Webb has developed over the course of this season.



Has there ever been a player on a team that's benefited more from not playing with a fan base than Webb. The amount that this guy is substantially overrated is really something.

Also, I assume that you haven't watched any of Webb's 2016 game tape. No, not his 2016 highlight tape, but the actually films charting all of his throws. If you had, you'd realize comments 1 and 4 aren't even remotely accurate. He, in fact, cannot make all the throws, he is seriously flawed on throws consistently over 10 yards. There are way too many instances where his throws are closer to the opposing CB than his own receiver. He also has a tremendous amount of difficulty reading a defense. He will throw to his first read even if there is a CB directly on the route.

I know we all want to believe Webb is the guy, but he has so many serious flaws that are not a tweak or two away from being fixed, to be a franchise qb. Passing on a qb because of him would be a decision that haunts this franchise for a decade (see Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox, back to Kent Graham, Danny Kannell, and finally Kerry Collins.)



So Lax where's the link to that film that charts all his throws? Or are a scout with access to ALL 22 tape? And btw I liked Kerry Collins.




YouTube has nearly all of his 2016 game films with all of his throws, they are 10 minute clips for the most part. Not hard to find. They are not highlight tapes, it is all of his throws.



No I did not watch all of his GAME TAPES, I read the scouting reports on the guy coming out. That is really all. But please, feel free to condescendingly presume that the only stuff I know about him is from highlight reels with hip hop or metal playing in the background.

I also kinda doubt you watched all of that film and even if you did, what qualifies your opinion to be more respected than that of people who are paid to write this stuff? I read that his flaws were:

1) playing in a spread offense
2) being robotic in his reads
3) had some trouble throwing to the sidelines
4)wasn't asked to throw downfield very much

Numbers 3 and 4 were the MAJOR reason why he dropped to the 3rd round.

Lastly, how exactly did I OVERRATE the guy? I did not rate him at all. I listed the reasons why some people were high on him and stated that he definitely has the measurables and apparently the work ethic to be a good NFL qb. If he stinks as a QB, how exactly is it going back to the QB quagmire of the 90s? We ELECTED to go with those guys instead of drafting the right guy. Webb fails after a year or two, we will draft another QB. Period. Yes, I want a QB. No I don't want to invest in a QB that we are tied to for 5 years and have to rely on him turning it around like the Rams had to deal with in Bradford and the Fins have to with Tannehill.

By the way, many of the flaws you highlighted (which fly in the face of many scouting reports) are fixable with the right coaching.


So, you admit all you did was read the most glowing scouting reports without really seeing him play. Well, I watched the majority of Webb's films from 2016. My eyes qualify to make these judgments because it's not hard for a long time football fan to see this guys flaws. But I also read the majority of scouting reports that pegged him as nothing more than a backup.

Also, you make it seem like it's so easy to move up and get a qb. I guess if that was the case, a large portion of NFL teams wouldn't be struggling to find one.

I will point you to thread written by gidiefor on the wide gap between Webb and Darnold/Rosen for those of you looking for a more expansive analysis on what I've been claiming- entitled Value and Allen, Rosen, and Darnold.
Im not quoting you  
chopperhatch : 1/12/2018 12:28 am : link
And maybe not responding to you any more lax counsel. Mostly because the posts are too long but also you seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth.

First you presumedthat I was championing Webb as our next franchise QB (couldn't be more wrong there), now you are implying that I somehow insinuated that we could easily move up and draft one of Webb didn't work out.

As to these glowing reviews (yet another presumption on your part...more than annoying) that you are accusing me of seeking out, I simply googled his name and "scouting report" read the fir1st 4 or 5. Amazingly brazen of you to say that those don't mean shit because you know better "from watching all his film" (another annoying BBIism).

I applaud your fastidious approach to getting your info if true, but roll my eyes at the way you dismiss what I've read about him.

Who gives a fuck we are taking a QB this year any way.
I just realized you are  
chopperhatch : 1/12/2018 12:29 am : link
Just registered. I can't believe I fell for it again. How old are you? I'm going with 22.
how can you say Webb isn't in there future plans?  
BillKo : 1/12/2018 10:50 am : link
What if the #2 pick gets hurt?

You need a backup.

You never know how things will play out.

Look at RG3 and Cousins.
If you're going to draft a QB this year ....  
Manny in CA : 1/12/2018 4:44 pm : link
With this sh***y O-line,it better be Lamar Jackson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4r2qlYVDPA

Whoever comes here under these conditions better be able to either run for his life or continue to play the "dink & dunk" game Eli has been playing.

(I don't think the new Giants coach will be of the mind-set to continue the status quo, so that means a ticket for Eli out of town. what could Eli mentor him on - nothing; that guy would be playing a totally different game).

IF we had a top O-line (equal to Philly, Dallas or the Rams), and still intent on drafting a QB, I'd still give Eli a chance but if he stumbled I'd quickly switch to the best "STAND-AND-DELIVER" QB in this draft ...

Oklahoma State's' Mason Rudolph ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQiQBjBPFQw

This guy reminds me a lot of (you're going to hate this) - Tom Brady.

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